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 Mrs. Perks Alive
Posts: 1162
    Location: Madill Ok | Breaking story from the Paulick report.ALLRED POSTPONES SUPER DERBY FINALS, ORDERS HAIR TESTING FOR QUALIFIERS Dr. Edward Allred, owner of Los Alamitos race course Dr. Edward Allred, owner of Los Alamitos race course in Southern California, has taken the extraordinary measure of postponing the finals of the estimated $1-million Quarter horse Super Derby from Nov. 1 to Nov. 15 because of suspicions over the outcome of the Oct 12 trials, when a relatively unknown trainer named Eloy Navarro sent out eight of the 10 fastest qualifiers. Allred has imposed house rules at Los Alamitos that no horse may have the bronchodilator clenbuterol in its system, and he has had hair samples collected from all of the qualifiers in the Oct. 12 trials to have it tested for the drug. “We’ve been doing some hair testing on the QT for some time, going back to last May and June,” Allred said. “A number of horses had been given clenbuterol in previous months that would not show up in regular (blood or urine ) tests. Our rule, established in February with the CHRB but also a house rule, says no horse can have clenbuterol in its system – at all. If it’s given by a vet, there has to be a therapeutic reason, and that horse has to go on the vet’s list for a period of time and re-qualify. We’ve had between 900 to 1,100 Quarter horses here, and zero horses have been put on the vet’s list for clenbuterol.” Testing is being done at the Kenneth L. Maddy Equine Analytical Laboratory at the University of California-Davis, which sent a lab technician to Newmarket, England, two years ago to learn the technique being used there for out-of-competition testing of hair samples. Allred funded a grant for method development.“You can’t beat the hair test, which is emerging as the most accurate kind of test,” he said. “We can’t presently use it to determine amounts, when it was given, but we can show that it was given.” Allred spoke with skepticism about Navarro’s successful qualifying night. Eight of his 12 runners in the five trials qualified for the finals, with four of them winning. In two races, he had the 1-2-3 finishers, and in another he had the 1-3-4. Most of Navarro’s starters were formerly associated with trainer Jose De La Torre, who was ejected from Los Alamitos Dec. 31, 2013, by Allred after four horses tested positive for clenbuterol last fall. Navarro had nine clenbuterol violations in 2008-09, according to published reports. “All 10 (Super Derby qualifiers ) had past association with connections that had previous clenbuterol violations,” said Allred. “It was obviously a farce as far as I’m concerned.” Allred said subpoenas are being served in the next few days but he could not provide further details. “The wheels of bureaucracy run a little slow,” he said. “Those services will be made. Then we will be able to tell who the culprits are going to be.” Allred said the track is in the process of getting hair samples from the next 20 possible qualifiers “so we may have an inventory of horses that could drop into this race, depending on the reports that we get back. “I doubt if we’ll have the same 10. We may have some new qualifiers.” Allred said he would rather close up shop than give up on his quest to have a clean sport. “I will not go on this way,” he said. “We are going to stir up the nest. In the future we are going to make it very clear, in all of our stabling and entries: it will be clearly stated we have zero tolerance for clenbuterol and we are going to use hair technology. Anyone with a positive will be taken out of the race. “Los Alamitos is very important to racing, with year-round Quarter horse racing and now with our Thoroughbred meetings,” Allred said. “I won’t have this. If someone gets a temporary restraining order or some BS, I’ll close.” |
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 Tried and True
Posts: 21185
         Location: Where I am happiest | You go Dr. Ed Allred!! |
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
       Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | Way to go Dr. Ed~ |
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 Texas Tenderheart
Posts: 6715
     Location: Red Raiderland | That is great news! No B.S. at Los Al
Joleen, I sent you a pm earlier today. |
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  Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
     Location: In a happy place | This is great news. Way to go Dr. Allred. |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
     Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Class act |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 554
  
| Woo hoo finally!!  |
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Blessed 
                      Location: Here |         |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
   Location: Oklahoma | Someone keep us posted on the final results! |
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Blessed 
                      Location: Here | Thrilled to see him take a stand |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1182
     Location: Do I hear Banjos? | That's darn impressive. I'll be interested to see how this shakes out. |
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| Agree 100%!! I just wish the AQHA and race tracks would start to crack down on the same people who are also falsifying birth dates on foals. |
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Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
 
| oi love that place lots of great memories class act all the way
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
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           Location: Kansas |  |
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Expert
Posts: 3300
    
| bscanchaser - 2014-10-30 9:20 AM Agree 100%!! I just wish the AQHA and race tracks would start to crack down on the same people who are also falsifying birth dates on foals.
And how would they do it that? Lol |
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
       Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 11:20 AM Agree 100%!! I just wish the AQHA and race tracks would start to crack down on the same people who are also falsifying birth dates on foals.
The tracks have nothing to do with people falsifying birth dates. All they have to go by for age is the foal certificates. That is soley up to AQHA. And I'm not sure how they would even begin to manage doing that. |
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Boot Detective
Posts: 1900
     
| Hats off to Mr. Allred for having the balls to do that. I was told just today by a race horse vet that the "amigos" have taken over that track and they are bringing clenbuterol across the border from Mexican pharmacies that is much stronger than what we have here. It apparently has a profound effect on their breathing better.  |
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| total performance - 2014-10-29 1:35 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 11:20 AM Agree 100%!! I just wish the AQHA and race tracks would start to crack down on the same people who are also falsifying birth dates on foals. The tracks have nothing to do with people falsifying birth dates. All they have to go by for age is the foal certificates. That is soley up to AQHA. And I'm not sure how they would even begin to manage doing that.
Yes, I realize the problem starts with AQHA to deal with un-honest breeders/owners, however, our track vet seemed to think it would be plausible to start mouthing horses as part of the test barn if the rules were changed to support that. |
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 Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
   Location: Sperry, OK | bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 2:33 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 1:35 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 11:20 AM Agree 100%!! I just wish the AQHA and race tracks would start to crack down on the same people who are also falsifying birth dates on foals. The tracks have nothing to do with people falsifying birth dates. All they have to go by for age is the foal certificates. That is soley up to AQHA. And I'm not sure how they would even begin to manage doing that. Yes, I realize the problem starts with AQHA to deal with un-honest breeders/owners, however, our track vet seemed to think it would be plausible to start mouthing horses as part of the test barn if the rules were changed to support that.
Do you think "mouthing" horses could really tell if they are 1 month or 3 months older than reported, when "mouthing" them can't even really tell more than a guess at general age? And mouthing is up to interpretation by the examiner, as well. |
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 Namesless in BHW
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       Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 2:33 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 1:35 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 11:20 AM Agree 100%!! I just wish the AQHA and race tracks would start to crack down on the same people who are also falsifying birth dates on foals. The tracks have nothing to do with people falsifying birth dates. All they have to go by for age is the foal certificates. That is soley up to AQHA. And I'm not sure how they would even begin to manage doing that. Yes, I realize the problem starts with AQHA to deal with un-honest breeders/owners, however, our track vet seemed to think it would be plausible to start mouthing horses as part of the test barn if the rules were changed to support that.
So are you saying a foal born in say December and not reported being born until January. Do you think they could actually tell from mouthing them? |
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| total performance - 2014-10-29 3:00 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 2:33 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 1:35 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 11:20 AM Agree 100%!! I just wish the AQHA and race tracks would start to crack down on the same people who are also falsifying birth dates on foals. The tracks have nothing to do with people falsifying birth dates. All they have to go by for age is the foal certificates. That is soley up to AQHA. And I'm not sure how they would even begin to manage doing that. Yes, I realize the problem starts with AQHA to deal with un-honest breeders/owners, however, our track vet seemed to think it would be plausible to start mouthing horses as part of the test barn if the rules were changed to support that. So are you saying a foal born in say December and not reported being born until January. Do you think they could actually tell from mouthing them?
No, I'm saying that the "amigo's" are foaling out between June-October 2014 and not claiming that the foal was born until February of 2016. Essentially they are match racing as 2 and 3 year olds and then running as a 4 year old in Futurities against everyone else's true 2 years old's and 5 year olds in Derbies. Said vet seemed pretty confident that majority of vets should be able to tell the age difference between a 2 yr old and 4 yr old.
BTW, no I'm not concerned about the person that foals in December and claims a January baby. |
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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
        Location: Broxton, Ga | quickdraw - 2014-10-28 3:25 PM
Hats off to Mr. Allred for having the balls to do that. I was told just today by a race horse vet that the "amigos" have taken over that track and they are bringing clenbuterol across the border from Mexican pharmacies that is much stronger than what we have here. It apparently has a profound effect on their breathing better. 
It could be injectable which is illegal I think on the states and much stronger. |
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 Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
   Location: Sperry, OK | bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 3:35 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 3:00 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 2:33 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 1:35 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 11:20 AM Agree 100%!! I just wish the AQHA and race tracks would start to crack down on the same people who are also falsifying birth dates on foals. The tracks have nothing to do with people falsifying birth dates. All they have to go by for age is the foal certificates. That is soley up to AQHA. And I'm not sure how they would even begin to manage doing that. Yes, I realize the problem starts with AQHA to deal with un-honest breeders/owners, however, our track vet seemed to think it would be plausible to start mouthing horses as part of the test barn if the rules were changed to support that. So are you saying a foal born in say December and not reported being born until January. Do you think they could actually tell from mouthing them? No, I'm saying that the "amigo's" are foaling out between June-October 2014 and not claiming that the foal was born until February of 2016. Essentially they are match racing as 2 and 3 year olds and then running as a 4 year old in Futurities against everyone else's true 2 years old's and 5 year olds in Derbies. Said vet seemed pretty confident that majority of vets should be able to tell the age difference between a 2 yr old and 4 yr old.
BTW, no I'm not concerned about the person that foals in December and claims a January baby.
I don't think that is really possible... if the date on the stallion certificate sent in by the stud owner doesn't match the foaling date of the mare listed on the stallion report, the AQHA will question and not award papers. There is no way a horse that is 2 years old can get new born papers. I have had AQHA come back to me and GRILL me about a foaling date that was 12 months, my mare carries longer than normal and I get quizzed every time I breed her. Now if the "amigos" are switching papers on horses, that is a different story all together. |
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
       Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | CJE - 2014-10-29 3:49 PM It could be injectable which is illegal I think on the states and much stronger. I believe you are referring to the powder that they mix with any kind of liquid. They say it is 100% pure. That stuff is lethal. Within 2 minutes, horse will begin sweating and bouncing off the walls of his stall. It is nasty stuff. And it takes them so long for them to come down off of that crap.
Edited by total performance 2014-10-29 3:57 PM
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 Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
   Location: Sperry, OK | total performance - 2014-10-29 3:55 PM CJE - 2014-10-29 3:49 PM It could be injectable which is illegal I think on the states and much stronger. I believe you are referring to the powder that they mix with any kind of liquid. They say it is 100% pure. That stuff is lethal. Within 2 minutes, horse will begin sweating and bouncing off the walls of his stall. It is nasty stuff. And it takes them so long for them to come down off of that crap.
Oh.. sounds like humans on meth (or cocaine)! LOL |
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
       Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-10-29 3:53 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 3:35 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 3:00 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 2:33 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 1:35 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 11:20 AM Agree 100%!! I just wish the AQHA and race tracks would start to crack down on the same people who are also falsifying birth dates on foals. The tracks have nothing to do with people falsifying birth dates. All they have to go by for age is the foal certificates. That is soley up to AQHA. And I'm not sure how they would even begin to manage doing that. Yes, I realize the problem starts with AQHA to deal with un-honest breeders/owners, however, our track vet seemed to think it would be plausible to start mouthing horses as part of the test barn if the rules were changed to support that. So are you saying a foal born in say December and not reported being born until January. Do you think they could actually tell from mouthing them? No, I'm saying that the "amigo's" are foaling out between June-October 2014 and not claiming that the foal was born until February of 2016. Essentially they are match racing as 2 and 3 year olds and then running as a 4 year old in Futurities against everyone else's true 2 years old's and 5 year olds in Derbies. Said vet seemed pretty confident that majority of vets should be able to tell the age difference between a 2 yr old and 4 yr old.
BTW, no I'm not concerned about the person that foals in December and claims a January baby. I don't think that is really possible... if the date on the stallion certificate sent in by the stud owner doesn't match the foaling date of the mare listed on the stallion report, the AQHA will question and not award papers. There is no way a horse that is 2 years old can get new born papers. I have had AQHA come back to me and GRILL me about a foaling date that was 12 months, my mare carries longer than normal and I get quizzed every time I breed her. Now if the "amigos" are switching papers on horses, that is a different story all together.
I am in agreement here. There is no way that would even match up. |
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
       Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-10-29 3:57 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 3:55 PM CJE - 2014-10-29 3:49 PM It could be injectable which is illegal I think on the states and much stronger. I believe you are referring to the powder that they mix with any kind of liquid. They say it is 100% pure. That stuff is lethal. Within 2 minutes, horse will begin sweating and bouncing off the walls of his stall. It is nasty stuff. And it takes them so long for them to come down off of that crap. Oh.. sounds like humans on meth (or cocaine)! LOL
Trust me, I've seen it and it ain't pretty. And then when they leave the track, their hair coat is turned inside out, and they loose weight and looke like he!! |
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 Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
   Location: Sperry, OK | total performance - 2014-10-29 3:59 PM ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-10-29 3:57 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 3:55 PM CJE - 2014-10-29 3:49 PM It could be injectable which is illegal I think on the states and much stronger. I believe you are referring to the powder that they mix with any kind of liquid. They say it is 100% pure. That stuff is lethal. Within 2 minutes, horse will begin sweating and bouncing off the walls of his stall. It is nasty stuff. And it takes them so long for them to come down off of that crap. Oh.. sounds like humans on meth (or cocaine)! LOL
Trust me, I've seen it and it ain't pretty. And then when they leave the track, their hair coat is turned inside out, and they loose weight and looke like he!!
That is awful! |
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
       Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-10-29 4:08 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 3:59 PM ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-10-29 3:57 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 3:55 PM CJE - 2014-10-29 3:49 PM It could be injectable which is illegal I think on the states and much stronger. I believe you are referring to the powder that they mix with any kind of liquid. They say it is 100% pure. That stuff is lethal. Within 2 minutes, horse will begin sweating and bouncing off the walls of his stall. It is nasty stuff. And it takes them so long for them to come down off of that crap. Oh.. sounds like humans on meth (or cocaine)! LOL
Trust me, I've seen it and it ain't pretty. And then when they leave the track, their hair coat is turned inside out, and they loose weight and looke like he!! That is awful!
And god knows what it does to their insides, ie. liver, kidneys, heart. |
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| total performance - 2014-10-29 3:58 PM
ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-10-29 3:53 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 3:35 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 3:00 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 2:33 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 1:35 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 11:20 AM Agree 100%!! I just wish the AQHA and race tracks would start to crack down on the same people who are also falsifying birth dates on foals. The tracks have nothing to do with people falsifying birth dates. All they have to go by for age is the foal certificates. That is soley up to AQHA. And I'm not sure how they would even begin to manage doing that. Yes, I realize the problem starts with AQHA to deal with un-honest breeders/owners, however, our track vet seemed to think it would be plausible to start mouthing horses as part of the test barn if the rules were changed to support that. So are you saying a foal born in say December and not reported being born until January. Do you think they could actually tell from mouthing them? No, I'm saying that the "amigo's" are foaling out between June-October 2014 and not claiming that the foal was born until February of 2016. Essentially they are match racing as 2 and 3 year olds and then running as a 4 year old in Futurities against everyone else's true 2 years old's and 5 year olds in Derbies. Said vet seemed pretty confident that majority of vets should be able to tell the age difference between a 2 yr old and 4 yr old.
BTW, no I'm not concerned about the person that foals in December and claims a January baby. I don't think that is really possible... if the date on the stallion certificate sent in by the stud owner doesn't match the foaling date of the mare listed on the stallion report, the AQHA will question and not award papers. There is no way a horse that is 2 years old can get new born papers. I have had AQHA come back to me and GRILL me about a foaling date that was 12 months, my mare carries longer than normal and I get quizzed every time I breed her. Now if the "amigos" are switching papers on horses, that is a different story all together.
I am in agreement here. There is no way that would even match up.
Yep...except when they own the stallion and mares. It's really not that hard to do when you think about it; all you are required to put down on a breeding report is a date range for live cover, mare name and a foal date 3-4 weeks earlier the following year- except in this guy's case, the foal is already a weanling/yearling when they are saying they are breeding. These people are not required to prove anything else- No vet inspection on breeding, foaling, tattooing or racing; parentage matches because both parents are recorded and AQHA papers say exactly what they intend- an older horse that is passed off as a 2 year old for futurities. I can understand the skeptism because I also didn't believe it until they were bragging about having 3 foals born in August; trust me I'm not making this up to have a nice conversation. How you would feel paying the futurity entry fees for your true 2 year old to run against a couterfeit 2 year old? These guys make a lot of money running in these higher stakes races and this is an easy way for them to get an edge on qualifying horses. |
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Expert
Posts: 3147
   
| bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 4:52 PM
total performance - 2014-10-29 3:58 PM
ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-10-29 3:53 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 3:35 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 3:00 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 2:33 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 1:35 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 11:20 AM Agree 100%!! I just wish the AQHA and race tracks would start to crack down on the same people who are also falsifying birth dates on foals. The tracks have nothing to do with people falsifying birth dates. All they have to go by for age is the foal certificates. That is soley up to AQHA. And I'm not sure how they would even begin to manage doing that. Yes, I realize the problem starts with AQHA to deal with un-honest breeders/owners, however, our track vet seemed to think it would be plausible to start mouthing horses as part of the test barn if the rules were changed to support that. So are you saying a foal born in say December and not reported being born until January. Do you think they could actually tell from mouthing them? No, I'm saying that the "amigo's" are foaling out between June-October 2014 and not claiming that the foal was born until February of 2016. Essentially they are match racing as 2 and 3 year olds and then running as a 4 year old in Futurities against everyone else's true 2 years old's and 5 year olds in Derbies. Said vet seemed pretty confident that majority of vets should be able to tell the age difference between a 2 yr old and 4 yr old.
BTW, no I'm not concerned about the person that foals in December and claims a January baby. I don't think that is really possible... if the date on the stallion certificate sent in by the stud owner doesn't match the foaling date of the mare listed on the stallion report, the AQHA will question and not award papers. There is no way a horse that is 2 years old can get new born papers. I have had AQHA come back to me and GRILL me about a foaling date that was 12 months, my mare carries longer than normal and I get quizzed every time I breed her. Now if the "amigos" are switching papers on horses, that is a different story all together.
I am in agreement here. There is no way that would even match up.
Yep...except when they own the stallion and mares. It's really not that hard to do when you think about it; all you are required to put down on a breeding report is a date range for live cover, mare name and a foal date 3-4 weeks earlier the following year- except in this guy's case, the foal is already a weanling/yearling when they are saying they are breeding. These people are not required to prove anything else- No vet inspection on breeding, foaling, tattooing or racing; parentage matches because both parents are recorded and AQHA papers say exactly what they intend- an older horse that is passed off as a 2 year old for futurities. I can understand the skeptism because I also didn't believe it until they were bragging about having 3 foals born in August; trust me I'm not making this up to have a nice conversation. How you would feel paying the futurity entry fees for your true 2 year old to run against a couterfeit 2 year old? These guys make a lot of money running in these higher stakes races and this is an easy way for them to get an edge on qualifying horses.
When a horse is tattoed they also check the teeth to determine if the mouth age matches the age on the papers. A horse foaled mid to late summer is going to have a different set of teeth than the one foaled early in the year. I know of a horse that was foaled in September, but registered as being foaled the following January. When they first took him to be tattoed the tattoer refused as his mouth was older than his papers showed. |
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| BMW - 2014-10-29 5:16 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 4:52 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 3:58 PM ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-10-29 3:53 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 3:35 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 3:00 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 2:33 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 1:35 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 11:20 AM Agree 100%!! I just wish the AQHA and race tracks would start to crack down on the same people who are also falsifying birth dates on foals. The tracks have nothing to do with people falsifying birth dates. All they have to go by for age is the foal certificates. That is soley up to AQHA. And I'm not sure how they would even begin to manage doing that. Yes, I realize the problem starts with AQHA to deal with un-honest breeders/owners, however, our track vet seemed to think it would be plausible to start mouthing horses as part of the test barn if the rules were changed to support that. So are you saying a foal born in say December and not reported being born until January. Do you think they could actually tell from mouthing them? No, I'm saying that the "amigo's" are foaling out between June-October 2014 and not claiming that the foal was born until February of 2016. Essentially they are match racing as 2 and 3 year olds and then running as a 4 year old in Futurities against everyone else's true 2 years old's and 5 year olds in Derbies. Said vet seemed pretty confident that majority of vets should be able to tell the age difference between a 2 yr old and 4 yr old.
BTW, no I'm not concerned about the person that foals in December and claims a January baby. I don't think that is really possible... if the date on the stallion certificate sent in by the stud owner doesn't match the foaling date of the mare listed on the stallion report, the AQHA will question and not award papers. There is no way a horse that is 2 years old can get new born papers. I have had AQHA come back to me and GRILL me about a foaling date that was 12 months, my mare carries longer than normal and I get quizzed every time I breed her. Now if the "amigos" are switching papers on horses, that is a different story all together.
I am in agreement here. There is no way that would even match up. Yep...except when they own the stallion and mares. It's really not that hard to do when you think about it; all you are required to put down on a breeding report is a date range for live cover, mare name and a foal date 3-4 weeks earlier the following year- except in this guy's case, the foal is already a weanling/yearling when they are saying they are breeding. These people are not required to prove anything else- No vet inspection on breeding, foaling, tattooing or racing; parentage matches because both parents are recorded and AQHA papers say exactly what they intend- an older horse that is passed off as a 2 year old for futurities. I can understand the skeptism because I also didn't believe it until they were bragging about having 3 foals born in August; trust me I'm not making this up to have a nice conversation. How you would feel paying the futurity entry fees for your true 2 year old to run against a couterfeit 2 year old? These guys make a lot of money running in these higher stakes races and this is an easy way for them to get an edge on qualifying horses. When a horse is tattoed they also check the teeth to determine if the mouth age matches the age on the papers. A horse foaled mid to late summer is going to have a different set of teeth than the one foaled early in the year. I know of a horse that was foaled in September, but registered as being foaled the following January. When they first took him to be tattoed the tattoer refused as his mouth was older than his papers showed.
Was the horse you know of tattooed in Mexico? Also, we had county fair races that ran last year without licenses and tattoos because the computer system crashed for licenses and the tattooer was at a different track. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 488
       Location: torrington, wy |  New Mexico needs to do the same. It's about time some one stepped up. |
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 Mrs. Perks Alive
Posts: 1162
    Location: Madill Ok | If the tattoo people were educated about horse age/teeth they could easily identify a horse older than his age. I can be done. If you suspect perhaps aqha could get it checked out.. |
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 Mrs. Perks Alive
Posts: 1162
    Location: Madill Ok | bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 3:35 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 3:00 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 2:33 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 1:35 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 11:20 AM Agree 100%!! I just wish the AQHA and race tracks would start to crack down on the same people who are also falsifying birth dates on foals. The tracks have nothing to do with people falsifying birth dates. All they have to go by for age is the foal certificates. That is soley up to AQHA. And I'm not sure how they would even begin to manage doing that. Yes, I realize the problem starts with AQHA to deal with un-honest breeders/owners, however, our track vet seemed to think it would be plausible to start mouthing horses as part of the test barn if the rules were changed to support that. So are you saying a foal born in say December and not reported being born until January. Do you think they could actually tell from mouthing them? No, I'm saying that the "amigo's" are foaling out between June-October 2014 and not claiming that the foal was born until February of 2016. Essentially they are match racing as 2 and 3 year olds and then running as a 4 year old in Futurities against everyone else's true 2 years old's and 5 year olds in Derbies. Said vet seemed pretty confident that majority of vets should be able to tell the age difference between a 2 yr old and 4 yr old.
BTW, no I'm not concerned about the person that foals in December and claims a January baby.
foaling out that early would be possible if say they owned their own stallion, but if they are using outside commercial studs the breeder reports would have to show those late breedings.. I dont know, its very possible but probably not as much as you think its happening..
Now the december foaling and january birthdate, yes that happens for sure, sometimes by design sometimes its just nature foaling early.. I always laugh when I see pics of a january 1st foal...
Now 3 yr old running as a 2 yr old, that could be easily detected by simply pulling up their lip. but I dont know if the identifier even looks at that.. |
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 BHW's Lance Armstrong 
Posts: 11134
     Location: Somewhere between S@% stirrer and Saint | total performance - 2014-10-29 3:00 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 2:33 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 1:35 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 11:20 AM Agree 100%!! I just wish the AQHA and race tracks would start to crack down on the same people who are also falsifying birth dates on foals. The tracks have nothing to do with people falsifying birth dates. All they have to go by for age is the foal certificates. That is soley up to AQHA. And I'm not sure how they would even begin to manage doing that. Yes, I realize the problem starts with AQHA to deal with un-honest breeders/owners, however, our track vet seemed to think it would be plausible to start mouthing horses as part of the test barn if the rules were changed to support that. So are you saying a foal born in say December and not reported being born until January. Do you think they could actually tell from mouthing them?
How many babie shave you seen at breeding farms and they are getting ready to breed at the end on January and first on February and the hair from the skowers has grown back already. that is how you can tell when a baby is born before Jan. 1. The hair doesn't grow back that fast. |
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 BHW's Lance Armstrong 
Posts: 11134
     Location: Somewhere between S@% stirrer and Saint | ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-10-29 3:53 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 3:35 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 3:00 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 2:33 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 1:35 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 11:20 AM Agree 100%!! I just wish the AQHA and race tracks would start to crack down on the same people who are also falsifying birth dates on foals. The tracks have nothing to do with people falsifying birth dates. All they have to go by for age is the foal certificates. That is soley up to AQHA. And I'm not sure how they would even begin to manage doing that. Yes, I realize the problem starts with AQHA to deal with un-honest breeders/owners, however, our track vet seemed to think it would be plausible to start mouthing horses as part of the test barn if the rules were changed to support that. So are you saying a foal born in say December and not reported being born until January. Do you think they could actually tell from mouthing them? No, I'm saying that the "amigo's" are foaling out between June-October 2014 and not claiming that the foal was born until February of 2016. Essentially they are match racing as 2 and 3 year olds and then running as a 4 year old in Futurities against everyone else's true 2 years old's and 5 year olds in Derbies. Said vet seemed pretty confident that majority of vets should be able to tell the age difference between a 2 yr old and 4 yr old.
BTW, no I'm not concerned about the person that foals in December and claims a January baby. I don't think that is really possible... if the date on the stallion certificate sent in by the stud owner doesn't match the foaling date of the mare listed on the stallion report, the AQHA will question and not award papers. There is no way a horse that is 2 years old can get new born papers. I have had AQHA come back to me and GRILL me about a foaling date that was 12 months, my mare carries longer than normal and I get quizzed every time I breed her. Now if the "amigos" are switching papers on horses, that is a different story all together.
They can tell the age difference by the teeth. There is no way a 3 or 4 year old can run as a 2 Y O. |
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 BHW's Lance Armstrong 
Posts: 11134
     Location: Somewhere between S@% stirrer and Saint | bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 4:52 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 3:58 PM ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-10-29 3:53 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 3:35 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 3:00 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 2:33 PM total performance - 2014-10-29 1:35 PM bscanchaser - 2014-10-29 11:20 AM Agree 100%!! I just wish the AQHA and race tracks would start to crack down on the same people who are also falsifying birth dates on foals. The tracks have nothing to do with people falsifying birth dates. All they have to go by for age is the foal certificates. That is soley up to AQHA. And I'm not sure how they would even begin to manage doing that. Yes, I realize the problem starts with AQHA to deal with un-honest breeders/owners, however, our track vet seemed to think it would be plausible to start mouthing horses as part of the test barn if the rules were changed to support that. So are you saying a foal born in say December and not reported being born until January. Do you think they could actually tell from mouthing them? No, I'm saying that the "amigo's" are foaling out between June-October 2014 and not claiming that the foal was born until February of 2016. Essentially they are match racing as 2 and 3 year olds and then running as a 4 year old in Futurities against everyone else's true 2 years old's and 5 year olds in Derbies. Said vet seemed pretty confident that majority of vets should be able to tell the age difference between a 2 yr old and 4 yr old.
BTW, no I'm not concerned about the person that foals in December and claims a January baby. I don't think that is really possible... if the date on the stallion certificate sent in by the stud owner doesn't match the foaling date of the mare listed on the stallion report, the AQHA will question and not award papers. There is no way a horse that is 2 years old can get new born papers. I have had AQHA come back to me and GRILL me about a foaling date that was 12 months, my mare carries longer than normal and I get quizzed every time I breed her. Now if the "amigos" are switching papers on horses, that is a different story all together.
I am in agreement here. There is no way that would even match up. Yep...except when they own the stallion and mares. It's really not that hard to do when you think about it; all you are required to put down on a breeding report is a date range for live cover, mare name and a foal date 3-4 weeks earlier the following year- except in this guy's case, the foal is already a weanling/yearling when they are saying they are breeding. These people are not required to prove anything else- No vet inspection on breeding, foaling, tattooing or racing; parentage matches because both parents are recorded and AQHA papers say exactly what they intend- an older horse that is passed off as a 2 year old for futurities. I can understand the skeptism because I also didn't believe it until they were bragging about having 3 foals born in August; trust me I'm not making this up to have a nice conversation. How you would feel paying the futurity entry fees for your true 2 year old to run against a couterfeit 2 year old? These guys make a lot of money running in these higher stakes races and this is an easy way for them to get an edge on qualifying horses.
I think it is quite possible that babies are born August- December. I have seen plenty of babies in January that were not born in January. |
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