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Expert
Posts: 2685
   
| I realize these are not "OMG" bred horses but please give me your OPs on these foal's pedigrees and what you think they might be worth (what would be a reasonable offer for them based solely on papers)
Sire to both foals: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/fire+and+money
Dam to foal #1: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/wranglers+bar+moon
Dam to foal #2: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/sugar+bugs+bar |
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12708
| How old, how far along in training, conformation?
If these are weaners then less than $1000. If they are well broke 3yo's then maybe $1500-$2500, depending on the conformation and how well they move, and basic potential on the pattern. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Pedigree everything I know of would be way to far back on the foals papers.
I honestly wouldn't buy |
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Location: Minnesota | If theses are my only two options I would go with mare number 2. I am not a fan of mare number one. |
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 Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | Solid bred performance prospects. I like how they have a foundation/cow breeding crossed on race/barrel breeding, my kind of pedigree's. I would go with #2. I think in the $1,000-$1,500 range. I find it so stupid when people say "thats to far back to matter" really!? Thats still a part of that horses bloodlines, but since its not on the ALMIGHTY papers it doesnt count... That blood still runs threw that foals veins, those horses that "dont count" anymore helped shape that colt to be what he is today. Thats like saying "oh i have a great great grama thats still alive, but i dont count her because she is so old and so many generations back." Just dumb. |
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 Peecans
| Iwish - 2014-11-02 1:02 PM
Solid bred performance prospects. I like how they have a foundation/cow breeding crossed on race/barrel breeding, my kind of pedigree's. I would go with #2. I think in the $1,000-$1,500 range. I find it so stupid when people say "thats to far back to matter" really!? Thats still a part of that horses bloodlines, but since its not on the ALMIGHTY papers it doesnt count... That blood still runs threw that foals veins, those horses that "dont count" anymore helped shape that colt to be what he is today. Thats like saying "oh i have a great great grama thats still alive, but i dont count her because she is so old and so many generations back." Just dumb.
Its not that that blood dosent matter, its how its been crossed for the past number generations and how week or strong the "famous" traits are.
Say five generations back you have "doc bar" but the past four generations have done nothing, i wouldent bet the farm that the Doc Bar gens are going to come through and make a super star. The further back the good know genes are the more diluted they become and the more horses you must take into consideration.
As for thoes horses, the breeding is not up my alley, but i like a lot different type of horse than most. And tend to look at how its but together and how it travles closer than papers anyway
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Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | Thank you for explaining it that way Della. You are the first person that could give me a answer that didn't involve "well, "those" horses are not famous so they don't count." I still feel and will always feel, that just because there is not anything "famous" on the ALMIGHTY papers, doesn't mean that horse cant be a super star. |
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Peecans
| Iwish - 2014-11-02 2:55 PM
Thank you for explaining it that way Della. You are the first person that could give me a answer that didn't involve "well, "those" horses are not famous so they don't count." I still feel and will always feel, that just because there is not anything "famous" on the ALMIGHTY papers, doesn't mean that horse cant be a super star.
And they most diffently can, they still have to be built right and trained right. Thats what i say I take the build and movement into great consideration.
I know for myself, when I buy a prospect I cant just keep buying until I stumble on one thats got great potential. I only have time and money for one maybe two, so i want the best chance possible things will work out, and that usualy means proven parents not proven great great grand parents.
Now with that said i will absoultly pick the horse who looks the part over one thats breed for the part but looks like a pud stick lol.
And lastly just because the haven't won money, say ranch ridden the last so many generations they very well could be breed right and given the chance have had famous parents.
Picking foals is hard, its scary and hard lol. Only thing worse is picking what stud you think will work on your mare lol.
If breeding and picking prospects was easy everybody would have NFR horses lol
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Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert |  Im glad im not the only one who believes a super star can come from "ranch breeding". Look at captain biankus. I dont think there are many who would look at his pedigree and go "NFR barrel horse right there" especially in todays barrel horse market but look at what he did. On the flip side i understand why futurity trainers only look at something that has Dash ta fame, streak of fling, fire water flit, frenchmans guy, judge cash, AAA and AAAT race horses all stuffed into one pedigree. But not everyone can afford something like that. To the OP, sorry to be going off on your thread, it just struck a nerve with me. OP, If these colts have the conformation, attitude, athletic ability and are what you are looking for then i say buy them. Yes, there pedigrees are not the "whose who" of the barrel racing world, but there still nice. |
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 I am Woman hear me Roar
Posts: 3395
Location: Choctaw, Oklahoma | Somehow my comment didn't go through earlier.
I would like to see foal #2. If it were me and the foal has nice confo and good mind set I wouldn't mind having it!
I like the mixed up speed/cow bred horses personally. And as long as the "famous" horses are within the 5th generation i see that counting for something. My best horses have always been a little mixed. My main gelding now is pure ranch bred and is holding his own in the pen and for the most part is very calm and level headed. That's what I look for before papers any day. |
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  Crazy Chicken Chick
Posts: 36132
| A couple folks around here are doing really well with the Col. Freckles bred horses.
However, I'd probably just save my money and keep looking. I know you didn't ask that, but there are so many horses out there and I'd rather save and get just what I want, or as close to it as possible.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 617
| If they are built real nice I wouldn't mind paying $2000 for a weanling or yearling with those papers. Just my opinion. I'm big on conformation. Also kind of depends where you are from. I'm from WI and there isn't a lot for prospects. |
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| If the price is right then I think you would have to base your decision on conformation, temperament, movement, etc. I personally like the Colonel Freckles line through Colonel Hotrodder, and there are some other recognizable names even if they are a little further back.
The main thing I'd take into consideration is resale. If you are looking to put some time on this horse then sell, your market will likely be a little more limited because of the papers. Unless you get the horse proven first. I'm not saying there won't be a market, but it's a lot easier to sell more proven barrel lines as a barrel prospect. |
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input on foal pedigree