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 Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
  
Location: the high desert | So this is something that has been bugging me and has bugged me for quite some time. I see this all the time, people post the pedigree of something and ask for opinions on it and if it isnt jam packed with the "whose who" of the barrel racing world or is AAA and AAAT bred out the butt, most people will say "i wouldnt buy it" or "it aint worth the time" or "i dont recognize anything on the papers, so i wouldnt buy it". It isnt just on here that i have noticed it, i have noticed it at barrel races as well.
I will never forget over hearing a conversation at a barrel race. This girl was sitting in the stands and had a couple hours before ran a really nice pattern on a really nice horse. These other girls came up to her and started talking to her saying what a nice horse, great run, etc. etc. Then they asked how was her horse bred. She said oh, he was bred to be a ranch horse he is all foundation bred. These other girls went oh...and walked away. As they past me i could hear them snickering and saying who would waste there time on something bred like that... Really?! You just watched this horse lay down an awesome run, were congratulating her on it, then find out its not "bred" for barrels so suddenly it aint worth a penny?...
Not everyone can afford a horse that is packed to the gills with AAA and AAAT race horses and Is by Dash Ta Fame, frenchmans guy, firewater flit, streak of fling, judge cash or some other multi million dollar sire. So if you cant afford something like that then what? You might as well not even bother trying to futurity or rodeo with your "non name brand" bred horse, give up your dreams, pack up and go home and only stick to gymkhanas or local jackpots or playdays because your horse isn't "bred" for barrels. A horse bred like that isn't worth the time, effort and money it takes to futurity and rodeo. Even if that horse has the text book conformation you look for when buying a barrel horse, has the heart and try every great barrel horse needs, is so athletic it gives you goose bumps, but it doesn't have "name brand" papers so it just isnt going to be worth the time to train it for barrels.
I know not EVERY barrel racer thinks like this, but more often than not this is the kind of answer i get. It is so discouraging to hear/see this over and over again. I haven't even started barrel racing, but im to the point that im not sure if i even want to. Im not saying that everyone should sell there expensive prospects and only buy a "non name brand" bred horse because others cant afford those expensive prospects so we shouldn't make them "feel bad". Good for you if you can afford a prospect with a designer pedigree, i wish i could. As a person sitting on the sidelines looking in, the message i get is if you cant afford a designer bred barrel horse you shouldn't even bother. These are my feelings, i know not everyone sees it this way, but this is the taste i have in my mouth and its bitter. Im sure that there are other horse sports that are the same way, i just happen to be interested in barrel racing.
P.S. i can not tell you how many times i read, re read, re re read over this and how long it took me to get the courage.. or stupidity.. to hit that submit button... Im hoping im not the only one who feels this way....or maybe its a good thing if im the only one who feels this way, maybe i have the wrong idea...  | |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| Do you want barrel racing to become "elite" or not? | |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Why are you letting this bother you? I could care less who is riding what, I just do my own thing and enjoy myself, I dont care if they like my horses are not and I sure as heck dont care to hear others opinion's on what is better at running barrels. stop worrying about what other's think, most of the ones that shoot their mouths off are the ones that dont know what the heck they are talking about. | |
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 Night Watchman
Posts: 5516
Location: Central Montana | There are pedigree snobs in every discipline. To me papers are only worth something (that something being potential) if you are looking at unbroke babies, then they are just a jumping off point. It isn't until you get one really good and broke and started that you will know if it is going to fulfill that potential.
I always like to use the son of Raise Your Glass we owned as an example. Bred to death and one of the most worthless for "want to run" and athleticism that I've ever seen.
Trying to get my foot in the door in the reining world. Bloodline snobs there too. I watched the sale preview at the big show in Las Vegas a couple of months ago. I made it through about the first 5 babies they brought in. Bob Loomis was doing the announcing and went on and on and on about what each of the "big" names on the pedigrees had done and won. I figured if you were going to a big sale where the horses were going to be bringing BIG BUCKS and you didn't know the history of the blooldines on the horses that were selling, you probably shouldn't be thinking of spending your money there. | |
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  Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Meh...I love pedigrees. I feel like I'm reading a book when I look at them and love knowing info. of all the old bloodlines. Many lines are proven and I would tend to want to spend my money on something that has the best shot that I can afford.....and, truthfully, I could care less what people think of my horses papers. If they are my horse, there is a reason for that....I like it, it won't kill me, it's fast etc.......so, I really don't think you should let this bother you at all. It's all about fun, enjoying yourself. Don't allow it to bother you and be a competition and it won't. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| Bloodlines are great. On a prospect it gives you an idea of what to expect. BUT it comes down to being a horseman and knowing what has potential or not. That's why I just sold my grandson of Royal Shakem for a registerable cowbred gelding. Why? Bc the cowbred blew the doors off of the Royal Shakem gelding. 1/4 of the time on barrels and running almost a full second faster. Having a certain bloodline doesnt win money.....performance does and thays why i sent him down the road. On a finished winning horse....I could care less how it's bred. Unless it's a mare then I think about it a little harder :) | |
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Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | Hmm... do i want barrel racing to become "elite"... If it means that only the rich of the rich can barrel race for big money then no, no i don't.
I don't know why i let this bother me. I know it shouldn't and i know i should just ignore it since its not something that will ever change, but it does bother me and makes me feel like i have no chance in he** and i dont even have big dreams. I just hope that one day instead of sitting on the sidelines (mainly due to my weight), i can actually compete in a jackpot. A real wild and crazy dream of mine is to actually be able to compete in a amateur rodeo. | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| You are missing the point on pedigrees.
The pedigree will give you an idea on what the odds are for the horse become anything.
There are many cow bred horses that make a successful crossover into the barrel pen.
Sun frost sire of frenchmans guy, PC frenchmans Hayday, and I can't think of the others right now, but he is a well know primarily in the working cow/cutting industry.
Firewater flit is flit bar, another cattle background
Peptoboonsmal, high brow cat, smart little Lena, and some of the descendants who are standing have proven themselves in their own discipline I would consider using as an outcross.
I look at the first two generations for money earners in any discipline and producers. If neither horse has done anything in the last two generations, I suspect the cross is a dud, not all crosses work well. I have learned a line bred smart little Lena can produce too many duds.
Dash ta fame is AAA, now please take a direct dash ta fame pedigree and try to sell him to the top cutter and let us know the response.
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| cheryl makofka - 2014-11-02 8:37 PM
You are missing the point on pedigrees.
The pedigree will give you an idea on what the odds are for the horse become anything.
There are many cow bred horses that make a successful crossover into the barrel pen.
Sun frost sire of frenchmans guy, PC frenchmans Hayday, and I can't think of the others right now, but he is a well know primarily in the working cow/cutting industry.
Firewater flit is flit bar, another cattle background
Peptoboonsmal, high brow cat, smart little Lena, and some of the descendants who are standing have proven themselves in their own discipline I would consider using as an outcross.
I look at the first two generations for money earners in any discipline and producers. If neither horse has done anything in the last two generations, I suspect the cross is a dud, not all crosses work well. I have learned a line bred smart little Lena can produce too many duds.
Dash ta fame is AAA, now please take a direct dash ta fame pedigree and try to sell him to the top cutter and let us know the response.
I agree with all but this..."The pedigree will give you an idea on what the odds are for the horse become anything."
The top trainers are paid big money to train certain breeds and spread their name keeping these breeds at the top, not that I have a problem with that as it keeps some great studs at a very affordable price. | |
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 I am Woman hear me Roar
Posts: 3395
Location: Choctaw, Oklahoma | Follow your dream!!!
I'm between the mindset that you shouldn't let it bother you and there, are pedigree snobs out there. I learned my pedigree lesson in high school. I rode a no papered 200 dollar kill pen appaloosa and knocked the socks off of many girls with 10,000+ horses. I got asked all the time how he was bred and they hated knowing that they didn't know what, was, whooping them. But he had heart and a ton of athleticism. My main gelding now is foundation bred thru and thru. No race blood anywhere and I'd take 10 more just like him for the talent and willingness to try.
I am fortunate enough to be in an area with many different styles of competitors, and I have a few friends I talk to. Just steer clear of the negative Nellies and enjoy the ride! | |
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Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | You just proved my point... all those studs you mentioned, I (and many others) cant afford to buy direct sons and daughters of theirs, I cant afford to buy a grandson of them that is out of a proven son of theirs (like firewater on the rocks, pc frenchmans hayday, lions share of fame etc.) So im left with the choice of either buying a great great grandson of them out of a stud that is not proven or to go looking for "other" bloodlines. Which then falls into the category of what i mentioned before that so many say, "everything that is "recognizable" is to far back to count, i wouldn't buy it." Which leads me right back to this post.. Obviously a top cutter would have no use for a son of Dash Ta fame. It doesn't matter whether it barrels, cutting, reining etc. not everyone can afford the top bloodlines, so again does that mean that i shouldn't even bother trying since i can only afford a great grandson of them that is out of a un-proven son? | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Itsme - 2014-11-02 8:43 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-11-02 8:37 PM
You are missing the point on pedigrees.
The pedigree will give you an idea on what the odds are for the horse become anything.
There are many cow bred horses that make a successful crossover into the barrel pen.
Sun frost sire of frenchmans guy, PC frenchmans Hayday, and I can't think of the others right now, but he is a well know primarily in the working cow/cutting industry.
Firewater flit is flit bar, another cattle background
Peptoboonsmal, high brow cat, smart little Lena, and some of the descendants who are standing have proven themselves in their own discipline I would consider using as an outcross.
I look at the first two generations for money earners in any discipline and producers. If neither horse has done anything in the last two generations, I suspect the cross is a dud, not all crosses work well. I have learned a line bred smart little Lena can produce too many duds.
Dash ta fame is AAA, now please take a direct dash ta fame pedigree and try to sell him to the top cutter and let us know the response.
I agree with all but this..."The pedigree will give you an idea on what the odds are for the horse become anything."
The top trainers are paid big money to train certain breeds and spread their name keeping these breeds at the top, not that I have a problem with that as it keeps some great studs at a very affordable price.
The top trainers cannot make a slow horse win, trainers can only do with the whatever the ability the horse has.
Those trainers also have unlimited horses so if one doesn't cut it, another horse takes the spot. I would love to know how many horses get culled each year.
Read the book secretariat, pedigrees were being examined before secretariat was a thought, those race track owners, and trainers study pedigrees to a science to identify the weak crosses and the strong crosses.
Genetics play an important role especially when you start looking at the large heart gene, this is why secretariat was known as a broodmare sire.
To the op Dr Nick Bar is also one who is not a AAA stud who has produced champions in the barrel pen
Edited by cheryl makofka 2014-11-02 9:29 PM
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | The point IS.....if a person asks the question regarding bloodlines, etc....they are ASKING for opinions.....Most here (on BHW) are not going to blow sunshine and butterflies up your butt.....If they wouldn't buy, ride, train, or use certain pedigrees.....THAT is their opinion.....and just THAT...an opinion. It shouldn't dampen or make a bit of difference to you or anyone else. | |
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Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | very true very true... | |
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Blessed 
Location: Here | Iwish - 2014-11-02 9:25 PM You just proved my point... all those studs you mentioned, I (and many others) cant afford to buy direct sons and daughters of theirs, I cant afford to buy a grandson of them that is out of a proven son of theirs (like firewater on the rocks, pc frenchmans hayday, lions share of fame etc.) So im left with the choice of either buying a great great grandson of them out of a stud that is not proven or to go looking for "other" bloodlines. Which then falls into the category of what i mentioned before that so many say, "everything that is "recognizable" is to far back to count, i wouldn't buy it." Which leads me right back to this post.. Obviously a top cutter would have no use for a son of Dash Ta fame. It doesn't matter whether it barrels, cutting, reining etc. not everyone can afford the top bloodlines, so again does that mean that i shouldn't even bother trying since i can only afford a great grandson of them that is out of a un-proven son?
Absolutely you should follow your own path. Some love the trending bloodlines and some like to step out of the box. Heck look at HotShot. he was a box all by himself | |
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Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | Very true S.G. I guess I am looking at this in the wrong light. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1034
| There ARE pedigree snobs in every discipline. I was told by someone here that my mare isn't bred nice enough to breed (her sire only has ONE ROM & superior and her grandsire on the bottom was a halter/race horse who didn't have a high enough speed index, never mind he's also on Dr Nick Bar's papers). My mare has great conformation, a good mind, $$ earnings in NRCHA, heart enough for five horses, and is pretty enough to get compliments from strangers everywhere we go. So you know what? I bred her to a proven barrel horse sire. And next year an up and comer. She's a paint, and any time a paint person sees her pedigree they say it's nice. There just are a bunch of opinionated people on this board who don't know what they don't know.
I am grateful when people reveal themselves to be shallow and rude like the girls you saw. It shows me who NOT to make friends with. Saves me the time. LOL! Do your own thing.
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Just follow your dreams and get that barrel horse that works for you and stay away from the negative people, and you will enjoy your self...  | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1034
| SG. - 2014-11-02 9:40 PM
Iwish - 2014-11-02 9:25 PM You just proved my point... all those studs you mentioned, I (and many others) cant afford to buy direct sons and daughters of theirs, I cant afford to buy a grandson of them that is out of a proven son of theirs (like firewater on the rocks, pc frenchmans hayday, lions share of fame etc.) So im left with the choice of either buying a great great grandson of them out of a stud that is not proven or to go looking for "other" bloodlines. Which then falls into the category of what i mentioned before that so many say, "everything that is "recognizable" is to far back to count, i wouldn't buy it." Which leads me right back to this post.. Obviously a top cutter would have no use for a son of Dash Ta fame. It doesn't matter whether it barrels, cutting, reining etc. not everyone can afford the top bloodlines, so again does that mean that i shouldn't even bother trying since i can only afford a great grandson of them that is out of a un-proven son?
Absolutely you should follow your own path. Some love the trending bloodlines and some like to step out of the box. Heck look at HotShot. he was a box all by himself
Yep. Recognize any big names here?
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/gills+bay+boy | |
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Blessed
Location: Here | Iwish - 2014-11-02 9:51 PM
Very true S.G. I guess I am looking at this in the wrong light.
Remember 1/2 empty or 1/2 full. the choice is yours.  | |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | Lol I had a similar experience to the girl in your story. I had a SOLID 3D gelding, nothing blazing fast, but broke broke and ran a nice, honest, solid pattern. At a race one time somebody made a comment to me about what a nice style he had and asked if he was Biankus bred - I said no, he's pleasure and halter lines. As soon as I said that, the lady's posture and attitude totally changed. It's not like we were running holes in the wind by any means, but he was a nice horse for sure - and a bang up barrel horse considering what his bloodlines were (or weren't?). | |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Someone needs to answer the person thats asking what bloodlines the horse is that's being ran and answer with The lines that you would love to have and just leave it at that. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | I couldn't care less what's on a horses papers. If I like it and it fits my style then I get it regardless of what a peice of paper says. I've bough one horse by only looking at papers. It's was a daughter of Streakin Six crossed with a Coup De Kas daughter. She stayed at 2 different trainers for almost 2 years and I put thousands of dollars into her trying to make a barrel horse out of her. Now, she's the most expensive trail horse you will find. A horse can't read his/her papers. A horse with a lot of heart and ability are worth more than one with a fancy set of papers. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| TessBelle - 2014-11-02 10:28 PM
I couldn't care less what's on a horses papers. If I like it and it fits my style then I get it regardless of what a peice of paper says. I've bough one horse by only looking at papers. It's was a daughter of Streakin Six crossed with a Coup De Kas daughter. She stayed at 2 different trainers for almost 2 years and I put thousands of dollars into her trying to make a barrel horse out of her. Now, she's the most expensive trail horse you will find. A horse can't read his/her papers. A horse with a lot of heart and ability are worth more than one with a fancy set of papers.
Yup.
And to Cheryl about the number of "culled" horses...I also wonder how many were culled due to being immature for their age/ fragile minded and what they became with time to mature? | |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | You know, there are people out there that would ride a mule in a barrel race if that was all they had.....You make the best with what you've got. | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 554
| It is meant to be fun. Scamper wasn't the top lines of his day and look at what he did. I think if you get along with the horse and you are having fun who cares. There are bloodline snobs in every arena out there. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Most local folks by me don't fancy schmancy bred horses, and they can still take home some money
Honestly, everyone has lines they like and lines they hate. I'm not a cowbred fan and love the big racy bred horses- nothing against the cowbreds, because many are kick but horses! It's just a personal preference. Don't let the snobby b's get to you... they are everywhere, and if you want to compete in ANY sport, you just need to learn to ignore them. Go out and have some fun! It's a hobby for most, and if it's not fun.... why do it?
Here's my horse- he's not fancy bred (actually bred for HUS) but he gets the job done and is a solid 3D horse running against the best of my area. He's so solid, easy to haul, and honest. I can run him and just let him do his job. I know many that would not touch him because he has Impressive way back, but he's N/N and sweet as can be. He will be with me to the end. He's earned it.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/harbor+moon | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| barrelracr131 - 2014-11-03 7:43 AM
Most local folks by me don't fancy schmancy bred horses, and they can still take home some money
Honestly, everyone has lines they like and lines they hate. I'm not a cowbred fan and love the big racy bred horses- nothing against the cowbreds, because many are kick but horses! It's just a personal preference. Don't let the snobby b's get to you... they are everywhere, and if you want to compete in ANY sport, you just need to learn to ignore them. Go out and have some fun! It's a hobby for most, and if it's not fun.... why do it?
Here's my horse- he's not fancy bred (actually bred for HUS) but he gets the job done and is a solid 3D horse running against the best of my area. He's so solid, easy to haul, and honest. I can run him and just let him do his job. I know many that would not touch him because he has Impressive way back, but he's N/N and sweet as can be. He will be with me to the end. He's earned it. http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/harbor+moon
Just using Allison's horse as an example, looking at this pedigree, some people would steer clear of this horse due to impressive.
With impressive in the pedigree this would be a flag for me to have the horse tested for hypp if the horse wasn't already tested.
Pedigree also helps inform the person looking of any genetic concerns such as HERDA, HYPP, etc. The 5 panel testing will probably show more lines with genetic weaknesses.
To the op also look up all topics on back yard breeder, pedigree has been discussed at length.
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | FTR, he's N/N | |
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 Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | As was already stated, when looking at prospects, papers matter, it shows they are bred for a certain discipline and are moe likely to excel there. With that being said, it is still not an absolute.
BUT, once a horse is clocking I could absolutely care less what it is bred like if it is winning and has good conformation to hold up and KEEP winning.
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | barrelracr131 - 2014-11-03 9:12 AM
FTR, he's N/N
He, also, never hits a barrel. | |
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 The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | Mighty Broke - 2014-11-03 7:16 AM As was already stated, when looking at prospects, papers matter, it shows they are bred for a certain discipline and are moe likely to excel there. With that being said, it is still not an absolute.
BUT, once a horse is clocking I could absolutely care less what it is bred like if it is winning and has good conformation to hold up and KEEP winning.
Nailed it! | |
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 Peecans
| rowdy256 - 2014-11-03 6:42 AM
It is meant to be fun. Scamper wasn't the top lines of his day and look at what he did. I think if you get along with the horse and you are having fun who cares. There are bloodline snobs in every arena out there.
I have always felt scamper was pretty nicly breed.
He was born to be a ranch horse, and he was working for charmaynes parents when they bought him for her.
I personaly feel that a good quality ranch horse can absolutely hold its own in the barrel pen. They have to be tuff, give 110% when they feel only 90% good. Have gas to run down rude cattle, the build to cover alot of ground effortsley and the mind to handle the craziest situations you can't even dream up.
Alot of qualities you want in a barrel horse IMO!
Like i said in another thread though, i really like different horses than most. And look at build and stride and movement a lot, scamper had all that! He was a NICE horse.
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 The Color Specialist
Posts: 7530
Location: Washington. (The DRY side.) | I don't CARE what other people think. (About ANYTHING.) Never have and never will!
This isn't the most fashoinable pedigree out there:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/wonders+cowboy+dan
Didn't stop him from being the AQHA/PRCA Barrel horse of the year this year! Nor did it stop him from helping Kaley Bass earn over $155,000 SO FAR this year. And they are leading the world going into the NFR. You think SHE cares that he doesn't have DTF, FG, FWF, etc... on his papers? I SERIOUSLY doubt it!
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 915
Location: SE KS | I like "fashionable" bloodlines too, but as someone else said, those aren't always affordable!!
My horse does all the things I want to do, we may not be the best at any one of them, but he does Western Pleasure, Reining, Barrels, Poles & Flags at the showdeos & usually places, & not only for me he does them for Youth riders as well!!!
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/searles+trick+ernie
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | LOL, I think the point everyone is missing here, is that there are Bitches in every walk of life and you can never please hardly anyone anymore! Apparantly it is more fun to be catty and snotty than genuinely nice and polite :)
Edited by LMS 2014-11-03 12:25 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | Iwish - 2014-11-02 9:25 PM
You just proved my point... all those studs you mentioned, I (and many others) cant afford to buy direct sons and daughters of theirs, I cant afford to buy a grandson of them that is out of a proven son of theirs (like firewater on the rocks, pc frenchmans hayday, lions share of fame etc.) So im left with the choice of either buying a great great grandson of them out of a stud that is not proven or to go looking for "other" bloodlines. Which then falls into the category of what i mentioned before that so many say, "everything that is "recognizable" is to far back to count, i wouldn't buy it." Which leads me right back to this post.. Obviously a top cutter would have no use for a son of Dash Ta fame. It doesn't matter whether it barrels, cutting, reining etc. not everyone can afford the top bloodlines, so again does that mean that i shouldn't even bother trying since i can only afford a great grandson of them that is out of a un-proven son?
Keep this in mind. Those studs may be out of your price range but there are a lot of nice studs out there that won't be, maybe from completely different lines.
I love pedigrees. I think of them like a puzzle. And I breed so I tend to care. But if I'm going to buy one to perform, and not breed prospects to sell, their performance record matters more than their papers. If I'm going to breed, I'd like both, pedigree and performance. That being said, a thread on here back a while ago asked people whether they were more concerned with the mare's pedigree or her performance for a prospect. Pedigree won the day.
It just depends what your interest is. If you just want a solid horse to haul on the weekend and enjoy, you can do that with lots of different types and lots make solid winners, especially in the lower Ds. But if you are going to breed then you will find that those interested in buying care about pedigree. It's not all about being a 'pedigree snob.' Some of it is just business. | |
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Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | Thank you everyone, you are all helping me see this in a different light. I always let people get to me, I dont know why, and it always brings me down. In the end, everyone is going to have an opinion (some nice and some just down right ugly) and I just have to learn how to not let their opinions affect me in a negative way. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 554
| LMS - 2014-11-03 12:11 PM
LOL, I think the point everyone is missing here, is that there are Bitches in every walk of life and you can never please hardly anyone anymore! Apparantly it is more fun to be catty and snotty than genuinely nice and polite :)
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Iwish - 2014-11-03 1:50 PM Thank you everyone, you are all helping me see this in a different light. I always let people get to me, I dont know why, and it always brings me down. In the end, everyone is going to have an opinion (some nice and some just down right ugly) and I just have to learn how to not let their opinions affect me in a negative way.
Thata girl | |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Iwish - 2014-11-03 1:50 PM Thank you everyone, you are all helping me see this in a different light. I always let people get to me, I dont know why, and it always brings me down. In the end, everyone is going to have an opinion (some nice and some just down right ugly) and I just have to learn how to not let their opinions affect me in a negative way.
Here ya go.... different discipline- same principal
First Mule Ever Makes It to the US Dressage FinalsLaura Hermanson and Heart B Dyna bray in the faces of anyone who thinks dressage is elitist.
When Laura Hermanson received an email saying she was long-listed to compete at Training Level in the US Dressage Finals in Lexington, Kentucky, she halfway thought it was a joke.She had been showing mules for the past three years, and she was campaigning her own molly mule Heart B Dyna toward making it to the USDF regional finals in California.
But the USEF has only allowed mules in competition since 2004, and a mule has never competed at the US Dressage Finals.
But a few weeks later, she received another email. Dyna had been bumped up from the waitlist, and was officially qualified. It was a dream come true… but Laura called the USDF juuuust to be sure.
“You know this is a mule, right?” she asked.
A pause. A shuffle of papers.
“Finally, they said yes!” says Laura. “And I knew I had to find a way to make it happen.”
Laura and 12-year-old Dyna have come a long way since they first met in 2006. Laura, a dressage trainer at Oak Star Ranch, had the idea to buy a mule with the gaits for dressage after a client’s mule really challenged her as a rider and a horsewoman, changing her skills for the better.
“It’s hard to pinpoint what makes them so special,” she continues. “Everything with them is like a horse, just amplified. Their power of retention is amazing, so the biggest trouble is reiterating something too much. You just have to be very accurate and fair… and you need a sense of humor because their dads are donkeys! They just have a piece of them that says, ‘nope, I’m not doing that today.’”
Seemingly, dressage would be the perfect discipline for an equine that demands an accurate ride. But Dyna didn’t think so at first.
“Dyna was a very, very tricky-minded creature, but very talented and very athletic,” says Laura, “I had to learn all these disciplines with her. I tried jumping; I tried cutting with her. Dressage has always been my background, and I knew there was probably going to be a time when I could focus on that exclusively with her, but with mules you have to be in it for the long haul, since they take a long time to mature.”
While riding mules isn’t too rare in California, at dressage shows other competitors were initially skeptical of Laura’s unconventional mount. But when her client horses and Dyna did well, their doubts subsided. Laura has gotten comments like “Great relaxation of the ears” on dressage tests!
But she didn’t trust her old truck and trailer to make it all the way from Madera, California, to Lexington. The cost of shipping Dyna across the country was daunting, and that was before hotel, rental car, vet and show costs. So Laura talked to a friend who worked in the movie business, and learned about GoFundMe as a means to bring the first mule ever to the US Dressage Finals. She surpassed her goal of $8,000 in little over two weeks.
“It’s been unbelievable. This was the first time I’ve ever really had to ask for help, especially financially—but it’s just grown kindness breeding kindness, and opened up a community of people I didn’t even know existed.”
She has gotten donations from all kinds of mule supporters, from the owners of Dyna’s full brother to complete strangers with plow mules.
“Dressage has the reputation of being elitist. And I’m living proof that’s not true. I’m riding a mule for goodness sakes!” Laura laughs. “It goes to show that anyone can do this. If you have a dream, you can do it.”
Thanks for sharing your story with us, Laura, and best of luck to you and Dyna next week!
Go Riding. | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| rodeomom3 - 2014-11-03 2:49 PM
Iwish - 2014-11-03 1:50 PM Thank you everyone, you are all helping me see this in a different light. I always let people get to me, I dont know why, and it always brings me down. In the end, everyone is going to have an opinion (some nice and some just down right ugly) and I just have to learn how to not let their opinions affect me in a negative way.
Here ya go.... different discipline- same principal First Mule Ever Makes It to the US Dressage Finals Laura Hermanson and Heart B Dyna bray in the faces of anyone who thinks dressage is elitist. When Laura Hermanson received an email saying she was long-listed to compete at Training Level in the US Dressage Finals in Lexington, Kentucky, she halfway thought it was a joke. She had been showing mules for the past three years, and she was campaigning her own molly mule Heart B Dyna toward making it to the USDF regional finals in California. But the USEF has only allowed mules in competition since 2004, and a mule has never competed at the US Dressage Finals. But a few weeks later, she received another email. Dyna had been bumped up from the waitlist, and was officially qualified. It was a dream come true… but Laura called the USDF juuuust to be sure. “You know this is a mule, right?” she asked. A pause. A shuffle of papers. “Finally, they said yes!” says Laura. “And I knew I had to find a way to make it happen.” Laura and 12-year-old Dyna have come a long way since they first met in 2006. Laura, a dressage trainer at Oak Star Ranch, had the idea to buy a mule with the gaits for dressage after a client’s mule really challenged her as a rider and a horsewoman, changing her skills for the better. “It’s hard to pinpoint what makes them so special,” she continues. “Everything with them is like a horse, just amplified. Their power of retention is amazing, so the biggest trouble is reiterating something too much. You just have to be very accurate and fair… and you need a sense of humor because their dads are donkeys! They just have a piece of them that says, ‘nope, I’m not doing that today.’” Seemingly, dressage would be the perfect discipline for an equine that demands an accurate ride. But Dyna didn’t think so at first. “Dyna was a very, very tricky-minded creature, but very talented and very athletic,” says Laura, “I had to learn all these disciplines with her. I tried jumping; I tried cutting with her. Dressage has always been my background, and I knew there was probably going to be a time when I could focus on that exclusively with her, but with mules you have to be in it for the long haul, since they take a long time to mature.” While riding mules isn’t too rare in California, at dressage shows other competitors were initially skeptical of Laura’s unconventional mount. But when her client horses and Dyna did well, their doubts subsided. Laura has gotten comments like “Great relaxation of the ears” on dressage tests! But she didn’t trust her old truck and trailer to make it all the way from Madera, California, to Lexington. The cost of shipping Dyna across the country was daunting, and that was before hotel, rental car, vet and show costs. So Laura talked to a friend who worked in the movie business, and learned about GoFundMe as a means to bring the first mule ever to the US Dressage Finals. She surpassed her goal of $8,000 in little over two weeks. “It’s been unbelievable. This was the first time I’ve ever really had to ask for help, especially financially—but it’s just grown kindness breeding kindness, and opened up a community of people I didn’t even know existed.” She has gotten donations from all kinds of mule supporters, from the owners of Dyna’s full brother to complete strangers with plow mules. “Dressage has the reputation of being elitist. And I’m living proof that’s not true. I’m riding a mule for goodness sakes!” Laura laughs. “It goes to show that anyone can do this. If you have a dream, you can do it.” Thanks for sharing your story with us, Laura, and best of luck to you and Dyna next week!Go Riding.
I seen that on Facebook and I know nothing about the levels of dressage, is training level a high level?
She is a beautiful mule | |
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Iwish - 2014-11-02 7:27 PM So this is something that has been bugging me and has bugged me for quite some time. I see this all the time, people post the pedigree of something and ask for opinions on it and if it isnt jam packed with the "whose who" of the barrel racing world or is AAA and AAAT bred out the butt, most people will say "i wouldnt buy it" or "it aint worth the time" or "i dont recognize anything on the papers, so i wouldnt buy it". It isnt just on here that i have noticed it, i have noticed it at barrel races as well. I will never forget over hearing a conversation at a barrel race. This girl was sitting in the stands and had a couple hours before ran a really nice pattern on a really nice horse. These other girls came up to her and started talking to her saying what a nice horse, great run, etc. etc. Then they asked how was her horse bred. She said oh, he was bred to be a ranch horse he is all foundation bred. These other girls went oh...and walked away. As they past me i could hear them snickering and saying who would waste there time on something bred like that... Really?! You just watched this horse lay down an awesome run, were congratulating her on it, then find out its not "bred" for barrels so suddenly it aint worth a penny?... Not everyone can afford a horse that is packed to the gills with AAA and AAAT race horses and Is by Dash Ta Fame, frenchmans guy, firewater flit, streak of fling, judge cash or some other multi million dollar sire. So if you cant afford something like that then what? You might as well not even bother trying to futurity or rodeo with your "non name brand" bred horse, give up your dreams, pack up and go home and only stick to gymkhanas or local jackpots or playdays because your horse isn't "bred" for barrels. A horse bred like that isn't worth the time, effort and money it takes to futurity and rodeo. Even if that horse has the text book conformation you look for when buying a barrel horse, has the heart and try every great barrel horse needs, is so athletic it gives you goose bumps, but it doesn't have "name brand" papers so it just isnt going to be worth the time to train it for barrels. I know not EVERY barrel racer thinks like this, but more often than not this is the kind of answer i get. It is so discouraging to hear/see this over and over again. I haven't even started barrel racing, but im to the point that im not sure if i even want to. Im not saying that everyone should sell there expensive prospects and only buy a "non name brand" bred horse because others cant afford those expensive prospects so we shouldn't make them "feel bad". Good for you if you can afford a prospect with a designer pedigree, i wish i could. As a person sitting on the sidelines looking in, the message i get is if you cant afford a designer bred barrel horse you shouldn't even bother. These are my feelings, i know not everyone sees it this way, but this is the taste i have in my mouth and its bitter. Im sure that there are other horse sports that are the same way, i just happen to be interested in barrel racing. P.S. i can not tell you how many times i read, re read, re re read over this and how long it took me to get the courage.. or stupidity.. to hit that submit button... Im hoping im not the only one who feels this way....or maybe its a good thing if im the only one who feels this way, maybe i have the wrong idea...
I've only ever riden gransons or grandaughters of that are my own. You would be amazed at how many people blow me off the same way when I rave about them on paper. (No breeding, Nothing impressive... etc.) But until they see me run, I keep my mouth shut about it.
Leave it all in the arena. Your horse will prove himself in the arena... Or he won't. Maybe not on paper, but if he's worth anything It will all come out in the arena.
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 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | oija - 2014-11-03 10:40 AM Iwish - 2014-11-02 9:25 PM You just proved my point... all those studs you mentioned, I (and many others) cant afford to buy direct sons and daughters of theirs, I cant afford to buy a grandson of them that is out of a proven son of theirs (like firewater on the rocks, pc frenchmans hayday, lions share of fame etc.) So im left with the choice of either buying a great great grandson of them out of a stud that is not proven or to go looking for "other" bloodlines. Which then falls into the category of what i mentioned before that so many say, "everything that is "recognizable" is to far back to count, i wouldn't buy it." Which leads me right back to this post.. Obviously a top cutter would have no use for a son of Dash Ta fame. It doesn't matter whether it barrels, cutting, reining etc. not everyone can afford the top bloodlines, so again does that mean that i shouldn't even bother trying since i can only afford a great grandson of them that is out of a un-proven son? Keep this in mind. Those studs may be out of your price range but there are a lot of nice studs out there that won't be, maybe from completely different lines. I love pedigrees. I think of them like a puzzle. And I breed so I tend to care. But if I'm going to buy one to perform, and not breed prospects to sell, their performance record matters more than their papers. If I'm going to breed, I'd like both, pedigree and performance. That being said, a thread on here back a while ago asked people whether they were more concerned with the mare's pedigree or her performance for a prospect. Pedigree won the day. It just depends what your interest is. If you just want a solid horse to haul on the weekend and enjoy, you can do that with lots of different types and lots make solid winners, especially in the lower Ds. But if you are going to breed then you will find that those interested in buying care about pedigree. It's not all about being a 'pedigree snob.' Some of it is just business.
I breed so pedigree is important. If I were going to buy a gelding to ride, pedigree is not so important. Then disposition and conformation become more important than pedigree.
Whoever said you can't afford the best breeding? I think most people who say that are only looking at daughters and sons not grandget. You can get some good deals on grandget.
Sometimes you have to think outside the box too. Just because a horse isn't barrel horse bred, doesn't mean they aren't well bred and very capable of running barrels as well as a barrel bred horse. When I was young I was friends with some people who raised a few head for the track. I bought this gelding.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/rebit+oh
I loved him so much I bought his sister. She was even better than he was. She has founded a dynasty of barrel horses for me. I have 2 of her daughters and getting the 3rd one back early next year to breed. Everything descended from her has been able to run barrels at a high level.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/oh+ima+lady
I don't know why I can't make those live links. Grrr
Edited by OregonBR 2014-11-03 5:15 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 507
Location: Lost in the corn of Iowa. | I haven't read all the replies. But I just wanna mention this, this year at the iowa state fair the winner of the queen contest.....rode a mule. Yep a bonified long eared jack ass. Let me tell you the other contestants tried to find it in the rules to exclude her because she rode a mule. And you know she was laughed at by some and the mules pedigree, who knows. Now, I'm not knocking mules in any way. But at the end of the day it's all about following your dream and doing the best with what you have. Who cares what others think or what they are riding. I understand using the papers as a guide of what to loosely expect but you can't base everything solely on that. I'm off my soap box now. | |
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Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | My mare is definitely a "out of the box" pedigree. When i bought her, i had intended to buy something that had that "all-star" pedigree (well...what i could afford that had a nice pedigree) but as always i ended up buying something completely different because i fall in love with the horse first then the pedigree. I have always been that way, then i think dang it I wasn't going to do that this time... I love my mare, i love her so much i sold her (i know that doesn't make since, but i wanted what was best for her and at the time i wasn't riding) and then i bought her back because i new i made a mistake. She is a big, solid made type of horse that is hard to come by these days and she is so stinking athletic its crazy. She loves the barrels, and they are just effortless for her. But to look at her pedigree, most people wouldn't spit in her direction. I guess that's what got to me, is that here is a horse that has so much potential , built to last, tough and gritty, stoic, so far in her short start on the pattern she LOVES it, so i know her heart will be 110% in to it, but many wouldn't even look twice at her based on pedigree alone. Well, i guess i will get to be the lucky one that owns her because i took the chance on her. Thank you again everyone, you really helped to open up my eyes that while yes pedigree is important and to most it is "everything" but not all are that way and some people are like me and take that chance. I LOVE seeing the mules competing at some of the top levels. There use to be a girl around here that ran a mule and did quite well i believe. | |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | Don't worry about what other people have that you don't. I think you see that now :). I can't afford DTF or FG either so I bred to my favorite sons of both. The mares I have now are bred very well in their own right but they aren't the #1 names in the industry either. But they are very special to me. And yep, there's always someone out there who will have something I don't but it's okay. I look toward the future and if that's what I want someday, I'll make the gameplan to have it eventually. But it may not be right now or even within the next few years!
I love bloodlines and pedigrees but I know it's not everything. I personally love a running bred horse but other people want cow lines...just because it's not something I particularly want doesn't mean it's not just as good! | |
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 Rebel Without a Cause
Posts: 2758
Location: Adopt a homeless pet - www.petfinder.com! | cheryl makofka Here ya go.... different discipline- same principal
I seen that on Facebook and I know nothing about the levels of dressage, is training level a high level? She is a beautiful mule
Cheryl: Training level is lower level. They go like this:
Training LevelTraining Level is the first level of dressage tests and the place to begin dressage training. Horses at Training Level are tested on their willingness to perform the movements and their suppleness. There are three tests at Training Level. Horses must be able to perform the free walk, medium walk, working trot, working canter and halt. Riders must demonstrate they are able to shorten and lengthen reins. Movements also include circles, straight lines, bends and gait transitions. First LevelFirst Level adds four challenges to Training Level. New movements include riding one loop or 10 meter half circle, which builds the foundation for serpentine work at higher levels, as well as the leg yield. Horses are asked to perform two sizes of circles, a 20 and 15 meter circle, demonstrating proper bend around the rider's inside leg. Horses also must be able to lengthen their stride and return to the working stride. Riders also may perform a simple Musical Freestyle at this level. Second LevelSecond level introduces movement related to collection. All of the movements at Training and First Levels are included at Second Level. Judges look for crisp and smooth transitions between collected and lengthened strides at various gaits. New movements introduced at Second Level include the counter canter, shoulder in, travers, simple lead changes, the rein back, and collected canter and trot. Third LevelThird Level tests the horse's ability to extend after the collected work at the Second Level. Movements tested at the walk include the medium and free walk, with horses asked to lengthen and shorten their strides at the walk. The half turn on the haunches also must be executed at the walk. At the trot, horses are tested on the medium, extended and collected trots, with the half pass and shoulder in included in the trot. Canter movements include a medium and collected canter. Horses also must demonstrate flying lead changes at the canter and the counter canter, and they also must halt from the collected trot. Fourth LevelFourth Level tests the building blocks for the upper level movements of dressage. Horses must demonstrate impulsion, suppleness and willingness. New movements added to the prior levels include the walking half pirouette, quarter pirouette at the canter, and flying lead changes performed every third or fourth stride. Prix St. GeorgesPrix St. Georges begins the elite levels of dressage tested at international horse shows. Horses must be at least seven years old before performing the Prix St. Georges. All of the movements required at previous levels are tested, plus the volte (turn) in an 8 meter circle at the trot, as well as the halt from the collected canter. Intermediare LevelsIntermediare Levels I and II set the stage for the ultimate dressage level, which follows Intermediare II, Grand Prix. At the Intermediare Levels, the zig zag half pass is added to the movements required from prior levels, and horses must now be able to change leads with every second or third stride instead of at the third or fourth stride. Intermediare II requires leads changes with every stride as well as the Passage and Piaffe. Grand PrixGrand Prix represents the pinnacle of dressage, and its the level most people are familiar with from watching the equestrian competition at the Olympics. The FEI governs Grand Prix dressage rules and requirements. While no new movements are added, the movements from Intermediare II must be performed as perfectly as possible.
Edited by Calangelo 2014-11-03 11:04 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1314
Location: North Central Iowa Land of white frozen grass | When I go to a horse sale I look at the horse and it's confirmation first then I look at the papers. If you don't have confirmation you don't have a horse that is going to be able to give you all it's potential its whole life. There are people that buy on color and there are people that buy papers. And when they got them home I hope that they don't have to say ( I paid how much for this horse ) . I would never buy a horse without seeing it with my own eyes and touching it with my own hands. The best feeling in the world is taking something that you have trained yourself and beat some of those big dollar horses. If you watch a lot of the big barrel races you would not have to have the fastest horse there to be in the top 50 percent because of so many nocked over barrels. Enjoy what you have and don't worry about the other riders. | |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | One of the advantages of buying name brand prospects is even if they don't work out for you, someone will be willing to give you good money for them. That said, every time I got stars in my eyes over a set of papers, it did not turn out well. My best horses have been well bred, but not name brand...probably because I bought them based on the horse in front of me and not the papers. | |
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 Veteran
Posts: 173
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow | LMS - 2014-11-03 12:11 PM
LOL, I think the point everyone is missing here, is that there are Bitches in every walk of life and you can never please hardly anyone anymore! Apparantly it is more fun to be catty and snotty than genuinely nice and polite :)
yep | |
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Veteran
Posts: 173
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow | rodeomom3 - 2014-11-03 2:49 PM
Iwish - 2014-11-03 1:50 PM Thank you everyone, you are all helping me see this in a different light. I always let people get to me, I dont know why, and it always brings me down. In the end, everyone is going to have an opinion (some nice and some just down right ugly) and I just have to learn how to not let their opinions affect me in a negative way.
Here ya go.... different discipline- same principal First Mule Ever Makes It to the US Dressage Finals Laura Hermanson and Heart B Dyna bray in the faces of anyone who thinks dressage is elitist. When Laura Hermanson received an email saying she was long-listed to compete at Training Level in the US Dressage Finals in Lexington, Kentucky, she halfway thought it was a joke. She had been showing mules for the past three years, and she was campaigning her own molly mule Heart B Dyna toward making it to the USDF regional finals in California. But the USEF has only allowed mules in competition since 2004, and a mule has never competed at the US Dressage Finals. But a few weeks later, she received another email. Dyna had been bumped up from the waitlist, and was officially qualified. It was a dream come true… but Laura called the USDF juuuust to be sure. “You know this is a mule, right?” she asked. A pause. A shuffle of papers. “Finally, they said yes!” says Laura. “And I knew I had to find a way to make it happen.” Laura and 12-year-old Dyna have come a long way since they first met in 2006. Laura, a dressage trainer at Oak Star Ranch, had the idea to buy a mule with the gaits for dressage after a client’s mule really challenged her as a rider and a horsewoman, changing her skills for the better. “It’s hard to pinpoint what makes them so special,” she continues. “Everything with them is like a horse, just amplified. Their power of retention is amazing, so the biggest trouble is reiterating something too much. You just have to be very accurate and fair… and you need a sense of humor because their dads are donkeys! They just have a piece of them that says, ‘nope, I’m not doing that today.’” Seemingly, dressage would be the perfect discipline for an equine that demands an accurate ride. But Dyna didn’t think so at first. “Dyna was a very, very tricky-minded creature, but very talented and very athletic,” says Laura, “I had to learn all these disciplines with her. I tried jumping; I tried cutting with her. Dressage has always been my background, and I knew there was probably going to be a time when I could focus on that exclusively with her, but with mules you have to be in it for the long haul, since they take a long time to mature.” While riding mules isn’t too rare in California, at dressage shows other competitors were initially skeptical of Laura’s unconventional mount. But when her client horses and Dyna did well, their doubts subsided. Laura has gotten comments like “Great relaxation of the ears” on dressage tests! But she didn’t trust her old truck and trailer to make it all the way from Madera, California, to Lexington. The cost of shipping Dyna across the country was daunting, and that was before hotel, rental car, vet and show costs. So Laura talked to a friend who worked in the movie business, and learned about GoFundMe as a means to bring the first mule ever to the US Dressage Finals. She surpassed her goal of $8,000 in little over two weeks. “It’s been unbelievable. This was the first time I’ve ever really had to ask for help, especially financially—but it’s just grown kindness breeding kindness, and opened up a community of people I didn’t even know existed.” She has gotten donations from all kinds of mule supporters, from the owners of Dyna’s full brother to complete strangers with plow mules. “Dressage has the reputation of being elitist. And I’m living proof that’s not true. I’m riding a mule for goodness sakes!” Laura laughs. “It goes to show that anyone can do this. If you have a dream, you can do it.” Thanks for sharing your story with us, Laura, and best of luck to you and Dyna next week!Go Riding.
Now this is a great story! | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | That mule is neat.
There was another one making the USDF rounds that was pretty cool.
Anywho, girls get catty period. I've been guilty of it from time to time (I'm not perfect) and people have acted that way towards me too. I try my best to be nice to everyone and ignore the catty comments. There will always be catty folks... just ignore them and fine positive people to chill with. :) | |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | barrelracr131 - 2014-11-04 8:44 AM That mule is neat.
There was another one making the USDF rounds that was pretty cool.
Anywho, girls get catty period. I've been guilty of it from time to time (I'm not perfect) and people have acted that way towards me too. I try my best to be nice to everyone and ignore the catty comments. There will always be catty folks... just ignore them and fine positive people to chill with. :)
Sometimes, you're just in the mood to be a bitch.  | |
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Spin off from another thread.