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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
    
Location: Kansas | My new gelding.....is a nutcase. Super flighty, spooks when the wind blows, and lately I can't catch him in the pasture. When ridden, if you touch your calf to him...he tucks his butt and bolts. I thought maybe he needed to settle in, but I'm thinking maybe he has other issues. What can I do to help with him being so flighty/squirrely?
I'm considering sending him to a gal I know, and have her ride him for 30 days....but want to avoid it to save a bit of money if I could!! |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 617
Location: London Ontario | Check for ulcers? How is he fed? I would also suggest after ruling out pain, extra feed etc a nice long work out. Wet saddle blankets and hard work sure do make honest and quiet horses lol, good luck! |
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | Try giving him a Magnesium supplement or Keep Cool by Silver Lining Herbs, also when he grabs his butt to leave, try counter arcing him. Helps get control of their feet and shoulder. I have a little mare that was exactly the same way, the best thing I ever did for her was A) keeping her feet moving...a great thread by Fatchance years ago and B) adding the Keep Cool. At first it was a product I had to give her every day but after about 3 months on it I could then start giving it to her only when I was headed somewhere new. After about another 3 months she no longer needed it at all. Before the combo of Fatchance's thread and the KC I had eaten the ground several times off of her when she "left". She is now 10, still a little sensitive but not flighty. |
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | He's had 90 days in the feed lot, the guy who rode him....cowboyed on him pretty hard. He still needs about a good 100 pounds or so, but putting weight on quickly. Right now he is in his own lot, I haven't even thought to check for ulcers. I planned on getting him to the chiro in the next month as a just in case kinda thing. |
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| To me he just sounds like he is a bit green. He just needs more time with someone on his back.
Edited by Whiteboy 2014-11-12 5:08 PM
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | Whiteboy - 2014-11-12 4:47 PM To he just sounds like he is a bit green. He just needs more time with someone on his back.
I wondered the same......I wasn't told very much about him when i bought him. Grrrrrrr |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| He sounds like he has been exactly what you said, "cowboy'd on". If he flighty at your leg touching him, I bet he was gouged a lot instead learning to move away from pressure the proper way. Probably had his butt whooped on without knowing why causing the flight part of his brain to take over. Some of those guys in the feed yards have no business being on a horse and others can put 30 days on one and you'd think the horse was a seasoned pro. Start him all over |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| hoofs_in_motion - 2014-11-12 4:55 PM Whiteboy - 2014-11-12 4:47 PM To he just sounds like he is a bit green. He just needs more time with someone on his back. I wondered the same......I wasn't told very much about him when i bought him. Grrrrrrr
I'm sure and sellers sometimes "round up" when they say 90 days, sometimes it was maybe a few short of that. If you dont have time to ride him consistently for another month or two it would be really good for him to send him off. Expensive but probably worth it as long as the trainer is a good one. |
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Regular
Posts: 55
| I agree with a supplement that contains magnesium. Not too expensive and deficiencies in micro minerals can do odd things to behavior in animals. |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | ulcers and chiro. I sent one off this spring and they didn't initially get along. I think the guy was a bit rough with him after an episode from the start (that could have been prevented) so even though he rides great after 30 days, he is more sensitive than he should be. Due to the incident, I had him chiro'd as soon as I got him back and his back was out pretty bad. He also wouldn't hardly touch his grain so I gave him my favorite supplement for ulcers. He really came around. I just need to send him to someone for some more riding to easy my mind. He moves bad when I go to throw the saddle on him, and I'm super short. I have tried everything and I think it has a lot to do with what happened. I'm chicken anymore |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 966
Location: Loco,Ok | I get them and rode many.What I never understood is why would you bang on one that like this.Only makes it worse.Never better.They just get shell shocked more.And in the end some dont come back.Take your time slow it down and give them more time to think it through.Many of them are almost too smart it seems and they want to please and be an over acheiver it seemed.Just like some people.They will try too hard and sometimes they dont process the information like we want.They never relax lick their lips.They always seem to be looking over their shoulder to see whats coming next.I give them a job get out of their way and let them do some thinking.Need to learn to turn the switch off.Most seem like they never allowed to relax.They want to be anywhere else but where you are. There not a lot of I wonts in a horse but there lot of I cants.You wont let me.
Most people today want to pick the horse up and take them to the destination instead of letting the horse take them to the destination.They feel like they have to be doing something all the time to help them get there.Show one what to do where to go and let them do their job.They make mistakes just like we do.Dont hammer one when they do Show them what is easy way and let them think.I get them along to ride that so shell shocked they dont trusty anyone.That is very difficullt to put back.
When you trap a horse and bind them up all they want is out of the trap.Just trying to save their life so to speak.
Very seldom is it people with horse problem.Most always horse with a people problem.You wont let me alone Im trying All I know is its going to hurt.
Because a horse is an animal of flight.When you do anything to them that scares,hurts,confusses,or surprizes them they run.They run and you pull.They push back.Get in a push pull war you cant win.Then put more on and pull more.They run more.Goes down hill from there.A horse will give to pressure but run into pain.They feel pain different than we do.
Just some thoughts from 40yrs.
They been tortured so to speak for years.And they want you to get it all straight in 30days.Aint gona happen. Took longer than 30 days to get here take longer to hopefully solve the problem.
Edited by clampitt 2014-11-13 12:05 PM
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| clampitt - 2014-11-13 9:39 AM
I get them and rode many.What I never understood is why would you bang on one that like this.Only makes it worse.Never better.They just get shell shocked more.And in the end some dont come back.Take your time slow it down and give them more time to think it through.Many of them are almost too smart it seems and they want to please and be an over acheiver it seemed.Just like some people.They will try too hard and sometimes they dont process the information like we want.They never relax lick their lips.They always seem to be looking over their shoulder to see whats coming next.I give them a job get out of their way and let them do some thinking.Need to learn to turn the switch off.Most seem like they never allowed to relax.They want to be anywhere else but where you are. There not a lot of I wonts in a horse but there lot of I cants.You wont let me.
Most people today want to pick the horse up and take them to the destination instead of letting the horse take them to the destination.They feel like they have to be doing something all the time to help them get there.Show one what to do where to go and let them do their job.They make mistakes just like we do.Dont hammer one when they do Show them what is easy way and let them think.I get them along to ride that so shell shocked they dont trusty anyone.That is very difficullt to put back.
When you trap a horse and bind them up all they want is out of the trap.Just trying to save their life so to speak.
Very seldom is it people with horse problem.Most always horse with a people problem.You wont let me alone Im trying All I know is its going to hurt.
Because a horse is an animal of flight.When you do anything to them that scares,hurts,confusses,or surprizes them they run.They run and you pull.They push back.Get in a push pull war you cant win.Then put more on and pull more.They run more.Goes down hill from there.A horse will give to pressure but run into pain.They feel pain different than we do.
Just some thoughts from 40yrs.
^^^ THIS^^^ and if there was a like button I would hit that, too!   |
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 Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
Location: Sperry, OK | I would start him over with his ground work, using Clinton Anderson (or which ever one you prefer) and get him desensatized. Sounds like he has never had this done, makes a world of difference when you get on to ride them also.
Edited by ACEINTHEHOLE 2014-11-13 10:28 AM
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Expert
Posts: 2122
Location: The Great Northwest | ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-11-14 7:27 AM I would start him over with his ground work, using Clinton Anderson (or which ever one you prefer) and get him desensatized. Sounds like he has never had this done, makes a world of difference when you get on to ride them also.
Yes, this horse and you need to start at the beginning on the ground. Clinton is the Best method. |
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 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | He sounds like a blown up horse I bought for a prospect many years ago. Clampitt had a VERY good explanation of why it happens. The horse I had would run sideways if I so much as moved my leg on him. I couldn't ride him in a snaffle (of all things) because it brought back bad memories. I took the bit out of his mouth (used hacks) and that helped. It took a long time and lots of calm desensitization. If they jump when you do something, keep doing it until they stop overreacting. CA work is the short explanation. That will work. The horse I had never did get over some of the worst reactions.
I think the first 30-45 days riding sets them up for success or failure depending on who rides them and what they did to them. Unfortunately.  |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Also along the way check things that are physical. Chiro, teeth, ulcers, etc... But also think about having him tested for PSSM. A simple change in diet might make a lot of the problems go away. The symptoms you are describing COULD be a physical problem that can be helped.  |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | clampitt - 2014-11-14 7:39 AM
I get them and rode many.What I never understood is why would you bang on one that like this.Only makes it worse.Never better.They just get shell shocked more.And in the end some dont come back.Take your time slow it down and give them more time to think it through.Many of them are almost too smart it seems and they want to please and be an over acheiver it seemed.Just like some people.They will try too hard and sometimes they dont process the information like we want.They never relax lick their lips.They always seem to be looking over their shoulder to see whats coming next.I give them a job get out of their way and let them do some thinking.Need to learn to turn the switch off.Most seem like they never allowed to relax.They want to be anywhere else but where you are. There not a lot of I wonts in a horse but there lot of I cants.You wont let me.
Most people today want to pick the horse up and take them to the destination instead of letting the horse take them to the destination.They feel like they have to be doing something all the time to help them get there.Show one what to do where to go and let them do their job.They make mistakes just like we do.Dont hammer one when they do Show them what is easy way and let them think.I get them along to ride that so shell shocked they dont trusty anyone.That is very difficullt to put back.
When you trap a horse and bind them up all they want is out of the trap.Just trying to save their life so to speak.
Very seldom is it people with horse problem.Most always horse with a people problem.You wont let me alone Im trying All I know is its going to hurt.
Because a horse is an animal of flight.When you do anything to them that scares,hurts,confusses,or surprizes them they run.They run and you pull.They push back.Get in a push pull war you cant win.Then put more on and pull more.They run more.Goes down hill from there.A horse will give to pressure but run into pain.They feel pain different than we do.
Just some thoughts from 40yrs.
Absolutely! With my flighty mare, you could not get after her for the behavior...you just had to put her to work in a way that kept her feet moving and controlling them at the same time. She is 10 and still cannot "stand still", she is like a bubble bee in a box, so I don't ask her to stand still for the most part. She can and will stand still while you saddle, while you get on, etc. but once you are on, she is a all business, she hates things that she finds pointless, she is a horse that likes having a job. She is happiest when you feet are moving, so that is what we do. I found the worst thing to do with her when she used to grab her as$ to leave was to grab her face to stop her AND clinch with my legs at the same time, my hands said "STOP" and my legs said "GO" and her brain would explode. The counter arc really helped with that, kept her from "leaving" yet allowed her feet to move but I controlled where they moved. Helps a lot with one that tends to want to buck when they "leave"...
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | OregonBR - 2014-11-13 11:25 AM He sounds like a blown up horse I bought for a prospect many years ago. Clampitt had a VERY good explanation of why it happens. The horse I had would run sideways if I so much as moved my leg on him. I couldn't ride him in a snaffle (of all things) because it brought back bad memories. I took the bit out of his mouth (used hacks) and that helped. It took a long time and lots of calm desensitization. If they jump when you do something, keep doing it until they stop overreacting. CA work is the short explanation. That will work. The horse I had never did get over some of the worst reactions.
I think the first 30-45 days riding sets them up for success or failure depending on who rides them and what they did to them. Unfortunately.
This is exactly how he is. I'm actually afraid to ride him now because of how bad he bolted when i just set my leg on his left side. |
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 The Great Dane
Location: The Lone Star State (Southeast, near the Gulf) | I have a gelding that is like this. Super talented horse, but oh my word. I'm definitely a better rider b/c of him! Best advice, after vet exam to rule out pain, take things slow, talk to him when you're saddling, riding, whatever. Mine thought he'd see boogie men and dart... if it was windy, oh boy! The #1 thing with him was to keep his feet moving & try to be calm. He loved to work & the more he worked, the better he was. Luckily not cold backed once, but could fly sideways & back! One rein stops are effective. I also have quiet hands. His biggest problem was setting back. Couldn't get him out of it so we learned to do other things to avoid being "tied". I really think something must have happened to cause his issues b/c he is super sweet & none of his actions are dileberate; he is sacred. I found that if I pat him between his eyes, kind of hard, it causes him to take a deep breath. I kept him on Vitamin B1, which took the edge off. Have patience & good luck!! |
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Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: Too far from home | Of course, vet check for issues, but most likely, it isn't a major medical issue; it's a confused and frightened horse. To fix it you need to be calm, confident and consistent. Be confident about what you are asking. Always know what you as asking for and when you get it, release the pressure you are putting on the horse. Release is when they learn what you want. Be consistent with how you ask and when you release. Horses don't learn so much from force as from release when they give you what they want. Always, be calm, even when you are applying pressure and being aggressive. Horseback is no where to have emotion, you need to be calm and analytical.
After reading what I just wrote, it makes perfect sense to me, however, my husband is very, very handy and I've ridden many horses. The spooky, scared ones are my personal favorite projects. However, I know what I know because I've seen it and ridden with people who have helped me develop my own skills. It's difficult to learn pressure, response & reward etc from reading it or watching a video. You really need to get you and your horse to someone who can help you both. You have a great opportunity to better your horse, yourself and your horsemanship in general right now.
Good luck! |
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 Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | Treat for EPM |
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | mollibtexan - 2014-11-13 5:34 PM Treat for EPM
he doesn't show any signs or symptoms that he has EPM.....he is just scared, and now being a complete jerk to catch |
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Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | Sometimes those kind can be like that. Put him with an easy horse to catch. |
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Location: Big Blue Skies | I bet the rough handling gave him ulcers which is compounding his other issues. I'd treat for ulcers and give the magnesium. The Magnesium really helps with flightiness and if they are body sore/touchy like when you brush them. That should help you when you go to ride him again. |
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Veteran
Posts: 128
| I would check for Ulcers too. I have one that acts the same way about being caught when his belly is acting up, especially if the wind is blowing. I realized that he is worse when his ulcers need a little extra maintenance. If you rule that out, then I would be inclined to think it is an attitude problem. |
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Veteran
Posts: 231
Location: Nashvegas | He sounds like he has zero confidence and zero trust in humans. To gain both of those you need to start from the ground up, I know that stinks but horses like him need to gain those to be a riding horse and those are both easier to come by on the ground first. To catch him for a while, I'd bribe him (treats) and keep him in a small lot. Once he starts to trust and grow confidence he will be more willing participant. Good luck with him! |
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | blueskies - 2014-11-15 10:45 PM I bet the rough handling gave him ulcers which is compounding his other issues. I'd treat for ulcers and give the magnesium. The Magnesium really helps with flightiness and if they are body sore/touchy like when you brush them. That should help you when you go to ride him again.
this is what I'm thinking. I've been looking for the best ulcer treatment, I've never had to treat for ulcers before.
I put my daughters fat little pony in with him....but of course that little jerk doesn't want to be caught now LOL. |
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 Bulls Eye
Posts: 6443
Location: Oklahoma | I messaged you on facebook |
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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | It may very well be his personality........some horses are more stable than others.....as in less flight instincts........I owned a mare that was flighty from the start......to the end......something you deal with or move them on......got 5 mares now........my 3 yr is less brothered by somethings than my 7 yr old.....go figure...... |
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 Expert
Posts: 2604
Location: Texas | http://www.performanceequineusa.com/MagRestore.aspx
I have some left over Magnesium as well as the Focus Equine. It is a couple of years old but should still be ok. You can have it for free if you will pay for the shipping. PM me if interested. |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Time and miles.
When I bought my horse Red 3 years ago, he was the first horse I'd ever had in my life that would all-out BOLT. I mean, head in the air, ignoring me, even bolting blindly onto a highway where there are cars. Scary bolting.
3 years later, I can't even remember the last time he has bolted. He has calmed down so much and is so much more relaxed, and of course I have gotten to know him better too.
Time and miles.
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 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | r_beau - 2014-11-19 10:58 AM Time and miles.
When I bought my horse Red 3 years ago, he was the first horse I'd ever had in my life that would all-out BOLT. I mean, head in the air, ignoring me, even bolting blindly onto a highway where there are cars. Scary bolting.
3 years later, I can't even remember the last time he has bolted. He has calmed down so much and is so much more relaxed, and of course I have gotten to know him better too.
Time and miles.
I agree time and miles. And quality time spent getting the horse to think outside his panic.
I would also treat for ulcers and make sure he isn't sore somewhere. I have a "sensitive" one that will get more flighty, snorty, not let me catch him type behavior, if he is hock sore or his belly hurts. Once I treat him for whichever ailment, he calms back down and becomes my quiet boy again. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2013
Location: Piedmont, OK | If there are no medical issues try giving him some In the Zone Paste by Animal Element. It helps flighty horses relax and focus. |
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 Regular
Posts: 74
Location: North Pole | run n rate - 2014-11-12 4:10 PM
Try giving him a Magnesium supplement or Keep Cool by Silver Lining Herbs, also when he grabs his butt to leave, try counter arcing him. Helps get control of their feet and shoulder. I have a little mare that was exactly the same way, the best thing I ever did for her was A) keeping her feet moving...a great thread by Fatchance years ago and B) adding the Keep Cool. At first it was a product I had to give her every day but after about 3 months on it I could then start giving it to her only when I was headed somewhere new. After about another 3 months she no longer needed it at all. Before the combo of Fatchance's thread and the KC I had eaten the ground several times off of her when she "left". She is now 10, still a little sensitive but not flighty.
Keep Cool by SL....
CHANGED MY LIFE! I definitely recommend it! |
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How to handle a flighty horse