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Posts: 2276
  
Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | My mare is sore in the hocks. She is going in next week for x rays to see what the problem is. Vet said there is something else he wants to try before we go the injection route.
So my question is...what are the alternatives? I would like to be some what educated when I go in there. |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
 
Location: Gainesville, TX | Been dealing with these questions myself. Rest, adequan, amino acid supplement based on those needed for joint chemicals like hyaluronic acid and glucosamine. Chiro for short term, acupuncture can be positive, magnetic therapy as alternatives. |
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Expert
Posts: 2276
Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | Honestly...she's had problems for a while but I just haven't been in the place to vet her(I know it's going to be expensive) so I've let her be off and I've had her on a joint supplement..can't remember the name now. And been using magnetic hock wraps. She isn't lame or act sore but I can feel a difference in her when I ride her and last time we ran she fell down. Chiro swings out to our place when ever he is in the area...usually around every couple months just to check everyone out. He's the one that first pointed out the soreness. Idk if rest will do it either...she hasn't been ran consistently in the last couple years...maybe 8 runs a year but I keep her legged up. I'm all for trying different things before injecting her. The vet I'm taking her to ISNT the vet I would take her to to be injected but I can get X-rays done cheaper and he says he has
Something to try first so we will see. I just don't really know what the other options are. |
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Regular
Posts: 56
| I hear that now PRP injections can help arthritis. |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | GenuineGlamour - 2014-11-19 1:53 PM I hear that now PRP injections can help arthritis.
I'm really curious to hear more about this. Someone brought it up in a suspensory thread a few months ago, but I never asked my vet about it. |
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| If she is not a young horse, I would bypass the adequan route and go right with an IV HA product like Legend or one of the off label brands like Hytril or polyglycan. Those are not cheap but work great. Pentosan is also showing great results with horses that are already arthritic. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2013
Location: Piedmont, OK | You could try
microcurrency, like an Acuscope or Best Vet.
Wraps like Back on Track or PHT 3 in 1 magnetic wraps
Injectable Supplements like adequane or polyglycan
Oral supplements - for joints like Animal Element Performance Detox which has MSM, Glucosamine, and HA but IMO you would also need Product X which is great for horses who are hauled hard, in intense training, and/or arthritic. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Find out where she is sore (high or low motion joint)
If she has been sore a while and it shows an issue via xray, and the vet recommends injections, I personally would inject and then try to maintain with something else, like Pentosan or Adequan.
The injection mixture they recommend will vary from vet to vet and should be different for different types of joints.
I personally prefer to get the inflammation down quick with an injection and then perhaps try to use something else to maintain or at the very least, extend the injection's benefit for as long as possible.
I would rather inject one than use something that is not getting rid of all the soreness.
But realistically, I would follow your vet's advice, barring they are a good vet for lameness and have a lot of experience with joint injections. |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Hes probrably going to say try series of legend
it didnt help my gelding when he was already fusing.. injections did.. to me feed thru supplements wont help.. to help to try to prevent arthritis sure but once hocks are sore and fusing no..
I believe its a long proccess and horse will be sore.. Id go to a good lameness vet and get it tended to .. whatever he suggests or you will end up with back soreness, and other chiro and muscle soreness issues .. |
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 Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
Location: Texas | if it's arthritis causing it it's acually better for them to have light riding then stall rest. |
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Expert
Posts: 2276
Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | She will be 9. She has never been hauled hard or ran constantly. I noticed a difference in her riding...she just seemed like she was moving a little stiff in her back legs and then she fell going Into the first barrel. Chiro came out and he said WOW SHE IS SORE BACK HERE! She has been ridden lightly and I keep her out as much as I can but she is in at night.
Edited to add: before her falling and the chiro she wasn't clocking as good.
Edited by lexyy12 2014-11-20 8:21 AM
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 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | barrelracr131 - 2014-11-19 2:50 PM Find out where she is sore (high or low motion joint)
If she has been sore a while and it shows an issue via xray, and the vet recommends injections, I personally would inject and then try to maintain with something else, like Pentosan or Adequan.
The injection mixture they recommend will vary from vet to vet and should be different for different types of joints.
I personally prefer to get the inflammation down quick with an injection and then perhaps try to use something else to maintain or at the very least, extend the injection's benefit for as long as possible.
I would rather inject one than use something that is not getting rid of all the soreness.
But realistically, I would follow your vet's advice, barring they are a good vet for lameness and have a lot of experience with joint injections.
^^^ This is exactly what I'd do too. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | I went down the "avoiding injections with oral supplements" route and it didn't work out well.
Once I got in with a GOOD lamness vet (Purdue University) I was given some great options and learned a lot. I'm not all about injecting, but if they need it they need it, at least initially. But IMO it is extremely important to have a true diagnosis before injections. (A diagnosis supported by Xrays, ultrasound, bone scan, what have you)
Best of luck. :) Lameness can be so frustrating. |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | barrelracr131 - 2014-11-20 8:48 AM I went down the "avoiding injections with oral supplements" route and it didn't work out well.
Once I got in with a GOOD lamness vet (Purdue University) I was given some great options and learned a lot. I'm not all about injecting, but if they need it they need it, at least initially. But IMO it is extremely important to have a true diagnosis before injections. (A diagnosis supported by Xrays, ultrasound, bone scan, what have you)
Best of luck. :) Lameness can be so frustrating.
I just wanted to say... it might not be hocks if you haven't already had a true diagnosis.. I have an 11 year old gelding that I had x rays done on when I did his pre purchase exam. He didn't show anything during a flex test, but I wanted X rays for my own peace of mind. I started having problems with him (resisting the alley, not running consistently, always resting a leg, acting badly for the trimmer) and so many people told me it was his hocks. He hadn't been ran consisently (at least what I'd say consistently, 2-3 runs a month) in his life I don't think and everyone (including myself) thought that was our problem.
I took him to a good lameness vet and we found what leg he was sore in with the lameness locator. I had the option of injecting his hocks and going home and seeing if he improved, but I wanted solid answers.... so we started doing blocks and when we blocked his hocks he wasn't any different. Finally blocked his suspensory and that was the cause of his pain. Wound up finding it with an ultrasound.
I'm not trying to scare you... just want you to be sure and have a true diagnosis, like Allison said, so you know more about what you're dealing with.
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Veteran
Posts: 264
| Longneck - 2014-11-20 9:25 AM
barrelracr131 - 2014-11-20 8:48 AM I went down the "avoiding injections with oral supplements" route and it didn't work out well.
Once I got in with a GOOD lamness vet (Purdue University) I was given some great options and learned a lot. I'm not all about injecting, but if they need it they need it, at least initially. But IMO it is extremely important to have a true diagnosis before injections. (A diagnosis supported by Xrays, ultrasound, bone scan, what have you)
Best of luck. :) Lameness can be so frustrating.
I just wanted to say... it might not be hocks if you haven't already had a true diagnosis.. I have an 11 year old gelding that I had x rays done on when I did his pre purchase exam. He didn't show anything during a flex test, but I wanted X rays for my own peace of mind. I started having problems with him (resisting the alley, not running consistently, always resting a leg, acting badly for the trimmer) and so many people told me it was his hocks. He hadn't been ran consisently (at least what I'd say consistently, 2-3 runs a month) in his life I don't think and everyone (including myself) thought that was our problem.
I took him to a good lameness vet and we found what leg he was sore in with the lameness locator. I had the option of injecting his hocks and going home and seeing if he improved, but I wanted solid answers.... so we started doing blocks and when we blocked his hocks he wasn't any different. Finally blocked his suspensory and that was the cause of his pain. Wound up finding it with an ultrasound.
I'm not trying to scare you... just want you to be sure and have a true diagnosis, like Allison said, so you know more about what you're dealing with.
I agree 100%! One of my horses was off performance wise. Went for a lameness exam twice and nothing came up (we do not have a great lameness vet, would have to travel out of state to see someone who specializes). After a long series of X-rays everything came back clean. They convinced me to get hock injections "because thats what most barrel horses need."  Started riding him again and he did seem better. Took him to a race....back to square one. No difference when he was pushed hard. Instead of wasting my money and going back to that clinic I called a guy in the next state over. Turns out it was an issue with his SI.
I would definitely find out the source of the issue before you start injecting. |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | FLITASTIC - 2014-11-19 2:23 PM If she is not a young horse, I would bypass the adequan route and go right with an IV HA product like Legend or one of the off label brands like Hytril or polyglycan. Those are not cheap but work great. Pentosan is also showing great results with horses that are already arthritic.
Why would you bypass Adequan? Adequan helps regenerate while Legend is short acting and really only acts as an analgesic. |
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Expert
Posts: 5293
| My vets always told me that adequan will repair while they are young. If to much damage it becomes a matter of managing symptoms with the HA products. |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | My horse has fusing hocks and I would inject him again in a heartbeat. He felt SO good! I couldn't believe it. I've only done them once so far, but if he needs it next year, he'll get them.
He gets time off when he needs it, along with Adequan and feed-through joint supplements, but the injections made it night and day. I had a new horse.
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 Veteran
Posts: 164
| I started my gelding on adequate when he was 7. Now he is 10 and he is still on it. He had hock problems and it has helped 100%. Really it has cured his problem. I stand by that product. I'm not sure about starting it on a 9 yr old but I don't see any issues with it that I've heard about at least. Just wait and talk to your vet and don't make any rash decisions, you can always think about it and call around. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Why are people so against hock injections? We have a 200k horse in our district that the owners are literally ruining because they don't believe in getting injections. He has really gone downhill in the past little bit and they are using a vet thats not high caliber and he's backing them up saying once you start injecting you can't quit but the horse is HURTING bad and its causing other problems. I just don't get it... |
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 Night Watchman
Posts: 5516
Location: Central Montana | astreakinchic - 2014-11-20 10:38 AM Why are people so against hock injections? We have a 200k horse in our district that the owners are literally ruining because they don't believe in getting injections. He has really gone downhill in the past little bit and they are using a vet thats not high caliber and he's backing them up saying once you start injecting you can't quit but the horse is HURTING bad and its causing other problems. I just don't get it... I guess my question is how do you know it is his hocks and not something else?
I'm not against injecting but I am against people just deciding what is wrong with their horse without having a full vet work up and xrays done. I had someone tell me my horse was "off" in the hocks. A good friend/great trainer rode the horse and said that the issues we were having could not be caused by sore hocks, maybe kidney/ovary issues, but not hocks.
Edited by GoinJettin 2014-11-20 9:02 PM
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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | GoinJettin - 2014-11-20 9:00 PM astreakinchic - 2014-11-20 10:38 AM Why are people so against hock injections? We have a 200k horse in our district that the owners are literally ruining because they don't believe in getting injections. He has really gone downhill in the past little bit and they are using a vet thats not high caliber and he's backing them up saying once you start injecting you can't quit but the horse is HURTING bad and its causing other problems. I just don't get it... I guess my question is how do you know it is his hocks and not something else?
I'm not against injecting but I am against people just deciding what is wrong with their horse without having a full vet work up and xrays done. I had someone tell me my horse was "off" in the hocks. A good friend/great trainer rode the horse and said that the issues we were having could not be caused by sore hocks, maybe kidney/ovary issues, but not hocks.
Ditto. Get a true diagnosis before you worry about injecting or not. many people thought my gray was sore in his hocks or stifles earlier this year but when we put the Lameness Locator on him, it turned out all his pain started in his feet. We fixed the feet (with injections and shoeing tweaks) and he has run well all year. I have a vet/chiropractor who visits my vet clinic regularly and I like to go for lameness exams on days he's there because I get an extra opinion on the horse, and he's better than my regular vet at identifying subtle lamenesses. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| GoinJettin - 2014-11-20 10:00 PM
astreakinchic - 2014-11-20 10:38 AM Why are people so against hock injections? We have a 200k horse in our district that the owners are literally ruining because they don't believe in getting injections. He has really gone downhill in the past little bit and they are using a vet thats not high caliber and he's backing them up saying once you start injecting you can't quit but the horse is HURTING bad and its causing other problems. I just don't get it... I guess my question is how do you know it is his hocks and not something else?
I'm not against injecting but I am against people just deciding what is wrong with their horse without having a full vet work up and xrays done. I had someone tell me my horse was "off" in the hocks. A good friend/great trainer rode the horse and said that the issues we were having could not be caused by sore hocks, maybe kidney/ovary issues, but not hocks.
I know the people that originally had him and had him on hock maintenance. Current owners don't believe in injecting and their current vet (they went through 2 other ones b4 finding a vet that tells him what they want to hear) is holistic and believes herbs and chiro will get him through until his hocks fuse. They are spending twice as much as hock injections cost on these alternatives. I dunno maybe it is right not to inject but the horse is hurting. Sweating when the saddle goes on, showing signs of ulcers, and the owners respond that he is just "adjusting to the pain." Words repeated from their holistic vet. I want to tell him to adjust to the pain. |
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Expert
Posts: 5293
| This is exactly why I am VERY VERY VERY selective in who I sell horses to, if I ever sell them at all. If any of them need any medical maintenance then I will not consider the sale unless they agree to do it. And I can usually tell if they are lying just to get the horse. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| First and foremost get a diagnosis! The sooner the better. You can prevent further damage by early diagnosis. Adequan is a great product for getting more out of your injection or simply as a maintenance. It helps repair damage. It's relatively "cheap" in comparison to oral supplements and since its an IM I know my horse is getting it. All of our horses are on adequan to help support healthy joints and ward off some of the issues that arise w/performance horses. In addition I do feed my main horse cosequin ASU. I've had good results with these products on a mare with OCD lesions in her stifle.I also feel like a well balanced, diversified conditioning program goes a long way in preventing issues and helping one come back after injury.
Best of luck with your horse! |
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Alternatives to hock injections.