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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 557
 
Location: Kansas and loving it | Any updates? Does Another Shot have any foals on the ground? I think the Frenchman clones are just yearlings. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
  
Location: South Central Florida | I would love to know too! I didn't know there was a clone of Frenchmans Guy. What about Charmayne James's Clone too? I thought there was a crop old enough to Futurity from Clayton, any one know? I won't judge them just based on their Futurity colts but I'm anxious to see some of them.
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 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | I think Hot Shot is Charmayne James' one she cloned. |
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| Another shot is the clone of Hot shot. Clayton is the clone of scamper. The frenchman guy clones have got to be 2 turning 3 in 2015. |
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | mtcanchazer - 2014-11-20 1:55 PM I think Hot Shot is Charmayne James' one she cloned.
no charmayne's clone is clayton........hot shot is the little buckskin that peyton raney owned that janet stover ran at the nfr then steinoff's bought him and later cloned him and got "another shot" ...loved that little horse he was cool
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | Hey...Whiteboy? Could you send me that purty thing in your avatar?!!! I think I'm in love!  |
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Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | Whiteboy - 2014-11-20 2:02 PM Another shot is the clone of Hot shot. Clayton is the clone of scamper. The frenchman guy clones have got to be 2 turning 3 in 2015.
are there still 3 of them....
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 928
Location: Bigfoot Country | http://victoryfarms.com/another_shot.htm
I think Danny Ray of Victory Farms owns Another Shot?
Edited by nuevocowgirl 2014-11-19 3:09 PM
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| total performance - 2014-11-19 3:05 PM Hey...Whiteboy? Could you send me that purty thing in your avatar?!!! I think I'm in love!
Haha, I'm in love also. My wife thinks im crazy but I just sit and stare at him anyway! lol |
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Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | mruggles - 2014-11-19 2:04 PM mtcanchazer - 2014-11-20 1:55 PM I think Hot Shot is Charmayne James' one she cloned. no charmayne's clone is clayton........hot shot is the little buckskin that peyton raney owned that janet stover ran at the nfr then steinoff's bought him and later cloned him and got "another shot" ...loved that little horse he was cool
m
Never mind, I was confused! it is hard enough to keep track of the regular horses, LOL. |
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Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | mtcanchazer - 2014-11-20 2:10 PM mruggles - 2014-11-19 2:04 PM mtcanchazer - 2014-11-20 1:55 PM I think Hot Shot is Charmayne James' one she cloned. no charmayne's clone is clayton........hot shot is the little buckskin that peyton raney owned that janet stover ran at the nfr then steinoff's bought him and later cloned him and got "another shot" ...loved that little horse he was cool
m
happens to me all the time..lol
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 Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | There was a Clayton colt that ran at the BFA this past year I think and I know our BB Dash4KJ has a goreous son out of her good Dash Ta Fame mare. |
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Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | Whiteboy - 2014-11-19 3:08 PM total performance - 2014-11-19 3:05 PM Hey...Whiteboy? Could you send me that purty thing in your avatar?!!! I think I'm in love!
I love his head! He's something to stare at for sure! |
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Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | Herbie - 2014-11-19 3:13 PM There was a Clayton colt that ran at the BFA this past year I think and I know our BB Dash4KJ has a goreous son out of her good Dash Ta Fame mare.
Question? Are they able to register these clones now? |
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Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta |
isn't he just a solid looking fella......:)
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | total performance - 2014-11-19 3:15 PM Herbie - 2014-11-19 3:13 PM There was a Clayton colt that ran at the BFA this past year I think and I know our BB Dash4KJ has a goreous son out of her good Dash Ta Fame mare. Question? Are they able to register these clones now?
No I don't think so. |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | total performance - 2014-11-19 3:15 PM
Herbie - 2014-11-19 3:13 PM There was a Clayton colt that ran at the BFA this past year I think and I know our BB Dash4KJ has a goreous son out of her good Dash Ta Fame mare.
Question? Are they able to register these clones now?
I wonder if they will ever be able to register them? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 928
Location: Bigfoot Country | mruggles - 2014-11-19 3:15 PM
isn't he just a solid looking fella......:)
m
He sure is!
I would think they are registering them with the Half Quarter Horse Registry. |
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 Vodka for Lunch
Location: Lala Land | Jud Little sold a 4yr old name Scamper For Cash by Clayton o/o a Cash Not Credit mare for $18,200 in his sale this year and the futurity colt from last yr was Scamper to Dat Cash o/o a Juno Dat Cash Mare.
Edited by Lovin Life 2014-11-19 3:51 PM
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 Veteran
Posts: 292
Location: Northeast Nebraska | I hope not. I am totally against cloning and the idea of them becoming registered stock disgusts me. Hey, they are not identical and do have traits from the recipient mare, so it's ALL BS. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 369
Location: Go Sooners!! | They may be cloned but they won't have the same heart.....:) |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 557
Location: Kansas and loving it | Thanks for all of the replies. Any plans for the Frenchman clones? Running or stud? |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Herbie - 2014-11-19 4:13 PM
There was a Clayton colt that ran at the BFA this past year I think and I know our BB Dash4KJ has a goreous son out of her good Dash Ta Fame mare.
He was Jud's and Janae Massey rode him. Named Scamper to Dat cash he got 7th in the superstakes at OKC. Anyone heard from him since? |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| GoGaited - 2014-11-19 4:22 PM
I hope not. I am totally against cloning and the idea of them becoming registered stock disgusts me. Hey, they are not identical and do have traits from the recipient mare, so it's ALL BS.
ummmmm .... Do tell what these traits are that supposedly come from the recip mare? |
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 Not Afraid to Work
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 Thread Killer
Posts: 7545
| GoGaited - 2014-11-19 5:22 PM I hope not. I am totally against cloning and the idea of them becoming registered stock disgusts me. Hey, they are not identical and do have traits from the recipient mare, so it's ALL BS.
*Edited because I don't want to spread misinformation*
Clones are not physically identical because of the way that the genes are expressed. The genetic makeup of two individuals may be identical (genotype), but what you see on the outside will probably be different (phenotype). This is why Scamper and Clayton do not look identicle.
The science behind it all isn't BS (unless you believe that all scientists are commies. Then, I can't help you).
Edited by Just Plain Lucky 2014-11-19 10:16 PM
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| total performance - 2014-11-19 3:15 PM
Herbie - 2014-11-19 3:13 PM There was a Clayton colt that ran at the BFA this past year I think and I know our BB Dash4KJ has a goreous son out of her good Dash Ta Fame mare.
Question? Are they able to register these clones now?
The court said yes. AQHA is trying to appeal it. IMO they won't win. |
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 Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | Whiteboy - 2014-11-19 3:08 PM total performance - 2014-11-19 3:05 PM Hey...Whiteboy? Could you send me that purty thing in your avatar?!!! I think I'm in love!
He is absolutely gorgeous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | teeally - 2014-11-19 5:09 PM They may be cloned but they won't have the same heart.....:)
I am not an expert on clones so I am glad to learn that they won't have the same heart.
Very interesting.
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 The Color Specialist
Posts: 7530
Location: Washington. (The DRY side.) | Just Plain Lucky, what about the MtDNA that IS passed from the egg donor to the clone? |
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 Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | i won't say that they necessarily have genetic traits from the recip mare but personality development has a big influence from the recip.....that's why you don't want to just grab some recip off the shelf... |
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Thread Killer
Posts: 7545
| RacingQH - 2014-11-19 10:34 PM Just Plain Lucky, what about the MtDNA that IS passed from the egg donor to the clone?
You're right, I hadn't even thought about that. I thought the donor egg was stripped of everything (DNA included) and was just an empty vessel. But now after doing some reading, only the nucleus is removed. It wouldn't work if they took everything.
Interesting. AAnnndd good thing I'm not a scientist.  
Edited by Just Plain Lucky 2014-11-19 10:13 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1034
| Just Plain Lucky - 2014-11-19 10:11 PM
RacingQH - 2014-11-19 10:34 PM Just Plain Lucky, what about the MtDNA that IS passed from the egg donor to the clone? You're right, I hadn't even thought about that. I thought the donor egg was stripped of everything (DNA included) and was just an empty vessel. But now after doing some reading, only the nucleus is removed. It wouldn't work if they took everything.
Interesting. AAnnndd good thing I'm not a scientist.
Mitochondrial DNA does not express. |
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | sorrel horse ranch - 2014-11-19 9:31 PM teeally - 2014-11-19 5:09 PM They may be cloned but they won't have the same heart.....:) I am not an expert on clones so I am glad to learn that they won't have the same heart.
Very interesting.
but someday they could....stem cell and 3D printing technology as well as advances in nanotechnology may make this a reality.........to have an identical heart..... |
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| HorseMommyFiveO - 2014-11-19 10:14 PM
Just Plain Lucky - 2014-11-19 10:11 PM
RacingQH - 2014-11-19 10:34 PM Just Plain Lucky, what about the MtDNA that IS passed from the egg donor to the clone? You're right, I hadn't even thought about that. I thought the donor egg was stripped of everything (DNA included) and was just an empty vessel. But now after doing some reading, only the nucleus is removed. It wouldn't work if they took everything.
Interesting. AAnnndd good thing I'm not a scientist.
Mitochondrial DNA does not express.
Precisely .... ! So the egg "vessel" doesn't matter when you insert the genes of the clone.
I will agree that the attitude of the recip mare will influence the attitude of the colt by her side, HOWEVER, that is NOT a major issue in my book in the whole cloning thing and I don't consider it an "attribute" that would then be passed on to the offspring of the clone. |
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| dhdqhllc - 2014-11-19 10:19 PM
sorrel horse ranch - 2014-11-19 9:31 PM teeally - 2014-11-19 5:09 PM They may be cloned but they won't have the same heart.....:) I am not an expert on clones so I am glad to learn that they won't have the same heart.
Very interesting.
There have been some absolutely AMAZING things done with 3D printing! I think we have a ways to go to develop the correct polymer that the body will "accept" when it comes to tissues but I LOVE the idea! |
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 Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | This is STRICTLY a HYPOTHETICAL question. Say Frenchman's Guy went sterile and they collected off of one of the clones and shipped it as Frenchman's Guy semen---would the reulting foal pass the AQHA DNA Test as being by Frenchman's Guy ?????? Again, I am not suspecting that this has happened---just had me wondering. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | Mighty Broke - 2014-11-20 8:41 AM
This is STRICTLY a HYPOTHETICAL question. Say Frenchman's Guy went sterile and they collected off of one of the clones and shipped it as Frenchman's Guy semen---would the reulting foal pass the AQHA DNA Test as being by Frenchman's Guy ?????? Again, I am not suspecting that this has happened---just had me wondering.
In my opinion, AQHA does not have the technology to differentiate between the two. So I would say, yes, it would pass the DNA test. |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | Mighty Broke - 2014-11-20 9:41 AM This is STRICTLY a HYPOTHETICAL question. Say Frenchman's Guy went sterile and they collected off of one of the clones and shipped it as Frenchman's Guy semen---would the reulting foal pass the AQHA DNA Test as being by Frenchman's Guy ?????? Again, I am not suspecting that this has happened---just had me wondering.
At this point in time - yes the AQHA can't tell a difference with the tests they use. |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | and that is one of the reasons some people have written off any bloodlines that have been cloned. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 557
Location: Kansas and loving it | If I remember correctly, all of the Smart Little Lena clones went out of the country. No cutting clone ccould make it. Now waiting to see if they can breed success.
Edited by rockette 2014-11-20 10:04 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| astreakinchic - 2014-11-19 7:49 PM
Herbie - 2014-11-19 4:13 PM
There was a Clayton colt that ran at the BFA this past year I think and I know our BB Dash4KJ has a goreous son out of her good Dash Ta Fame mare.
He was Jud's and Janae Massey rode him. Named Scamper to Dat cash he got 7th in the superstakes at OKC. Anyone heard from him since?
Bumping to know if anyone has seen Scamper to Dat Cash? |
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Expert
Posts: 3300
| 3canstorun - 2014-11-21 7:03 AM
Mighty Broke - 2014-11-20 9:41 AM This is STRICTLY a HYPOTHETICAL question. Say Frenchman's Guy went sterile and they collected off of one of the clones and shipped it as Frenchman's Guy semen---would the reulting foal pass the AQHA DNA Test as being by Frenchman's Guy ?????? Again, I am not suspecting that this has happened---just had me wondering.
At this point in time - yes the AQHA can't tell a difference with the tests they use.
You could test Mtdna... Many people use this to trace their family back to its origins |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1034
| Mighty Broke - 2014-11-20 8:41 AM
This is STRICTLY a HYPOTHETICAL question. Say Frenchman's Guy went sterile and they collected off of one of the clones and shipped it as Frenchman's Guy semen---would the reulting foal pass the AQHA DNA Test as being by Frenchman's Guy ?????? Again, I am not suspecting that this has happened---just had me wondering.
Yes. The genotype would be identical. |
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 Water Weight Barbie
Posts: 6829
Location: Oz, Kansas | If I remember correctly I think there were 3 clones of Hot Shot but only one is still alive. Not sure how/why the other 2 died & I don't know if they said. |
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 Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | dhdqhllc - 2014-11-19 9:55 PM i won't say that they necessarily have genetic traits from the recip mare but personality development has a big influence from the recip.....that's why you don't want to just grab some recip off the shelf...
Not necessarily. Most of our recip mares here have come out of the kill pen. The foals they raise generally act like their biological parents even though they are raised by something entirely different. The ones I've had and am now riding have the same personalities and quirks as their "real" dams do....and they've never even seen their real dams. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| rockinas - 2014-11-20 12:26 PM
dhdqhllc - 2014-11-19 9:55 PM i won't say that they necessarily have genetic traits from the recip mare but personality development has a big influence from the recip.....that's why you don't want to just grab some recip off the shelf...
Not necessarily. Most of our recip mares here have come out of the kill pen. The foals they raise generally act like their biological parents even though they are raised by something entirely different. The ones I've had and am now riding have the same personalities and quirks as their "real" dams do....and they've never even seen their real dams.
Are you riding Lena's baby? Please give a fb update sometime or something! |
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | astreakinchic - 2014-11-20 11:39 AM rockinas - 2014-11-20 12:26 PM dhdqhllc - 2014-11-19 9:55 PM i won't say that they necessarily have genetic traits from the recip mare but personality development has a big influence from the recip.....that's why you don't want to just grab some recip off the shelf... Not necessarily. Most of our recip mares here have come out of the kill pen. The foals they raise generally act like their biological parents even though they are raised by something entirely different. The ones I've had and am now riding have the same personalities and quirks as their "real" dams do....and they've never even seen their real dams. Are you riding Lena's baby? Please give a fb update sometime or something!
Yes, I am! I put a video of her up a couple of days ago, loping through the barrels for her first time! It's public on my wall! :)
We've also got a 2 year old out of her coming up soon!
And 2 yearling fillies. They are by 2 different studs but they all act JUST like her!  |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1034
| I think some of you are confusing the surrogate recip mares who carry the pregnancy with the egg donor mares who provide the egg to be 'washed' and fertilized. Not always the same mare.
The mitochondrial DNA from the egg donor never expresses. It is in the nucleus of the cell and gets passed -unchanged and unexpressed - through the female line of all creatures.
Recip / surrogate mares may have some effect on the attitude/personality of the foal, as some behavior is learned. However, a lot of behavior is also genetic. Look at all the twins separated at birth who end up similar in personality. |
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 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Mighty Broke - 2014-11-20 6:41 AM This is STRICTLY a HYPOTHETICAL question. Say Frenchman's Guy went sterile and they collected off of one of the clones and shipped it as Frenchman's Guy semen---would the reulting foal pass the AQHA DNA Test as being by Frenchman's Guy ?????? Again, I am not suspecting that this has happened---just had me wondering.
There are tests where they can tell the difference between a clone the original horse by testing the MtDNA. AQHA's parentage verification tests are not sensitive enough to be able to tell the difference between a clone and the original. However, when the stallions clone contributes semen, any difference will be undetectable with current testing. Therefore all the foals by the clone will be the exact genotype of the donor horse. I heard all this when AQHA had a seminar webcast at their convention several years ago. There MAY have been changes in the testing since then.
I'm against cloning anything. People need to appreciate how rare these great horses are, but they need to let them go when their time comes. Try to make a new great horse instead.  |
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | HorseMommyFiveO - 2014-11-20 11:50 AM I think some of you are confusing the surrogate recip mares who carry the pregnancy with the egg donor mares who provide the egg to be 'washed' and fertilized. Not always the same mare. The mitochondrial DNA from the egg donor never expresses. It is in the nucleus of the cell and gets passed -unchanged and unexpressed - through the female line of all creatures. Recip / surrogate mares may have some effect on the attitude/personality of the foal, as some behavior is learned. However, a lot of behavior is also genetic. Look at all the twins separated at birth who end up similar in personality.
I know the difference, I was just responding to the post regarding recip mares for ET. 
We do several ET every year and some of our recips are real skankers, but the foals have all ended up being very nice.
Even the ones out of the worst recip mares have been nice to deal with. There is something to be said about strong genetics. |
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Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | rockinas - 2014-11-20 11:49 AM astreakinchic - 2014-11-20 11:39 AM rockinas - 2014-11-20 12:26 PM dhdqhllc - 2014-11-19 9:55 PM i won't say that they necessarily have genetic traits from the recip mare but personality development has a big influence from the recip.....that's why you don't want to just grab some recip off the shelf... Not necessarily. Most of our recip mares here have come out of the kill pen. The foals they raise generally act like their biological parents even though they are raised by something entirely different. The ones I've had and am now riding have the same personalities and quirks as their "real" dams do....and they've never even seen their real dams. Are you riding Lena's baby? Please give a fb update sometime or something!
We've also got a 2 year old out of her coming up soon!
And 2 yearling fillies. They are by 2 different studs but they all act JUST like her!
I think us non-FB people would love to see Lena's babies!!  |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 557
Location: Kansas and loving it | Scamper To Dat Cash is supposed to run in the Buckeye in AZ in January. |
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Veteran
Posts: 292
Location: Northeast Nebraska | lindseylou2290 - 2014-11-19 6:54 PM GoGaited - 2014-11-19 4:22 PM I hope not. I am totally against cloning and the idea of them becoming registered stock disgusts me. Hey, they are not identical and do have traits from the recipient mare, so it's ALL BS. ummmmm .... Do tell what these traits are that supposedly come from the recip mare?
http://www.thehorse.com/articles/31832/recipient-mare-traits-passin...
For starters. |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | rockette - 2014-11-20 1:06 PM Scamper To Dat Cash is supposed to run in the Buckeye in AZ in January.
In the derby? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| rockette - 2014-11-20 1:06 PM Scamper To Dat Cash is supposed to run in the Buckeye in AZ in January.
He did run in AZ. Didn't get anything done.
http://brn4d.com/2014-ClassicEquine/CE%20Results%20Futurity%20Average%202014.htm
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 557
Location: Kansas and loving it |
Good catch! I see the other Clayton baby ran there too. Glad to see Bo Hill and Jitterbugz there. I look for Famous Bugs and As Good As Nick Gets babies as well.
Edited by rockette 2014-11-20 7:17 PM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 654
Location: Scurry, TX |
the stats on the Scamper Clone were pretty good. It was in the top 20 in the average and made two solid runs |
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 Expert
Posts: 1432
Location: Never in one place long | GoGaited - 2014-11-19 4:22 PM
I hope not. I am totally against cloning and the idea of them becoming registered stock disgusts me. Hey, they are not identical and do have traits from the recipient mare, so it's ALL BS.
Agree agree agree!! |
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Expert
Posts: 1432
Location: Never in one place long | lindseylou2290 - 2014-11-19 6:54 PM
GoGaited - 2014-11-19 4:22 PM
I hope not. I am totally against cloning and the idea of them becoming registered stock disgusts me. Hey, they are not identical and do have traits from the recipient mare, so it's ALL BS.
ummmmm .... Do tell what these traits are that supposedly come from the recip mare?
I think she means personality and mannerisms... because they are raised from a recip so they learn things from them not their real mama. This has always concerned me regarding recip mares. |
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Clones of Hot Shot and Frenchman Guy