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 Morale Booster!!
Posts: 1459
  
| If you have a horse vetted and it doesnt necessarily pass and you see the ad and the price has gone up and the ad says will pass vet check, do you just ignore it, or do you say something??
Edited by 3turns 2014-11-21 10:44 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 5290
| That one I would ignore, its buyer beware. Most vets wont pass or fail a horse . They just make recommendations based on a lot of different criteria. If someone else decides to buy the horse and take the sellers word, thats their problem. |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
 
Location: Kansas | while it's messed up and crappy of the seller, I wouldn't say anything |
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 Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | I've never heard of "pass" or "fail"? It's all so subjective... everyone has issues. It's more of can you deal with it or not.
So, I don't know what you could say? Or why? |
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 Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | Here are my 2 cents on vet checks.
They are VERY subjective.
A couple years ago I had a 3 year old DTF daughter for sale.
I had a prospective buyer do a vet check on her.
Buyer was several states away from where I live, I am in SD so it was a long distance deal. Potential buyer
had a local equine vet come to my house and do the pre purchase exam.
It was February, so we had mud by day which freezes at night and has a tendency to make everything that's barefoot, a little sore. I told the potential buyer this, they claimed to understand.
Vet flexes the mare, she's 100% sound on all 4 legs on the flex test.
He hoof testers her, She was a little sore on her heels and toe on both front feet, which I figured she'd be, due to the freezing/thawing that time of year, no big deal.
Any other time of the year it would be a non issue and had she been shod, it would have been a non issue.
Vet xrays her, finds some "arthritic changes" in her left hock, she was starting to fuse. Front feet, ankles, knees, stifles, all clean. Again, flexed off sound.
Potential buyer was concerned about the heel pain on the hoof testers--all the mare needed was shoes.
The vet up here sent all of the info and xrays to the vet several states away, who advised the potential buyer to pass on the mare.
I ended up selling the mare a couple months later, for more money than I had advertised her for originally, disclosing everything I knew about her.
This buyer didn't even vet her because I told them everything and they'd bought another futurity horse from me before that they were really happy with.
So far this horse has made the finals at every big futurity she's been entered at this year (including Diamonds & Dirt), she's won one futurity and she's qualified for The American Finals. And she's never taken a lame step for her new owners.
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | rockinas - 2014-11-21 11:24 AM Here are my 2 cents on vet checks.
They are VERY subjective.
A couple years ago I had a 3 year old DTF daughter for sale.
I had a prospective buyer do a vet check on her.
Buyer was several states away from where I live, I am in SD so it was a long distance deal. Potential buyer
had a local equine vet come to my house and do the pre purchase exam.
It was February, so we had mud by day which freezes at night and has a tendency to make everything that's barefoot, a little sore. I told the potential buyer this, they claimed to understand.
Vet flexes the mare, she's 100% sound on all 4 legs on the flex test.
He hoof testers her, She was a little sore on her heels and toe on both front feet, which I figured she'd be, due to the freezing/thawing that time of year, no big deal.
Any other time of the year it would be a non issue and had she been shod, it would have been a non issue.
Vet xrays her, finds some "arthritic changes" in her left hock, she was starting to fuse. Front feet, ankles, knees, stifles, all clean. Again, flexed off sound.
Potential buyer was concerned about the heel pain on the hoof testers--all the mare needed was shoes.
The vet up here sent all of the info and xrays to the vet several states away, who advised the potential buyer to pass on the mare.
I ended up selling the mare a couple months later, for more money than I had advertised her for originally, disclosing everything I knew about her.
This buyer didn't even vet her because I told them everything and they'd bought another futurity horse from me before that they were really happy with.
So far this horse has made the finals at every big futurity she's been entered at this year (including Diamonds & Dirt), she's won one futurity and she's qualified for The American Finals. And she's never taken a lame step for her new owners.
^^This!
It's so subjective. No horse will totally pass a vet check, it's just seeing if what they have is something you can live with.
I'd stay out of it.
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 Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | Unless a close friend or family member is interested in said horse, I would not say anything. Buyers need to do their research.
My sister just sold a horse and had issues with the vet check. The buyer had come out and ridden the horse twice, the horse traveled 100% sound, and they decided they wanted to do a vet check. A week had passed between the last time they rode and when their vet came out. During that time, it rained and the horses were out acting stupid, and he apparently slipped in the mud and tweaked his front knee. He flexed sore on that leg and the vet didn't pass him. The vet couldn't say for sure if it was going to be an ongoing problem, or if it was temporary. The buyer decided they wanted to give him a week and see if he got better. So, a week later, my sister took him to her vet and he flexed completely sound. The buyer still wanted her vet to re-check him, so he did. The vet said that if this was the first time seeing the horse, he would have never questioned his soundness, and passed him with flying colors. So it was a very minor, temporary injury and they ended up buying him.
After the initial failed vet check, if that buyer had of gone and run her mouth and put the word out that my sister was trying to sell a lame horse, then that would have hurt her chances of selling him, even though it was very minor, and he did heal.
However, I don't know how you "get the word out" that it's being misrepresented.
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Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | 3turns - 2014-11-21 10:41 AM
If you have a horse vetted and it doesnt necessarily pass and you see the ad and the price has gone up and the ad says will pass vet check, do you just ignore it, or do you say something??
I'm curious who you would say something to. I see comments all the time about people wanting to tattle about misrepresented horses, but how would you go about doing that? |
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Location: Central Florida | Unless someone very close to you was buying the horse I would not say anything. |
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Duct Tape Bikini Girl
Posts: 2554
| Take care of you and leave it up to others to take care of themselves. |
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Assistant to the Braun..
Posts: 1249
Location: Texas | There are no pass or fail vet checks its basically what you as the buyer wants to decide once you have the vet check done and been told what the findings are. EVERY horse is going to have something come up in a vet check but again its the buyers decision to buy or pass on the horse. I would not say anything because what you may have passed on this horse for the next person may not have a problem with it. |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8552
Location: sunny california | I really think it depends on the issue and I disagree that there are no pass or fail results. while there might not be pass results there are fail results that are definite if the problem is bad enough. |
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The Expert Expert
Posts: 3455
Location: Western performance horse Hades | Basically a "failed" vet check is that the person looking to buy the horse couldn't live with issues or potential issues the horse may have or had. Its really no reflection of the soundess or unsoundess of the horse. As a vets wife, I'm likely to let something slide more than others because I can pay cost to deal with them whereas someone else is going to pay a boat load in maintenance. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1062
Location: Probably On the Road to the Next Barrel Race! | MS2011 - 2014-11-21 11:28 AM rockinas - 2014-11-21 11:24 AM Here are my 2 cents on vet checks.
They are VERY subjective.
A couple years ago I had a 3 year old DTF daughter for sale.
I had a prospective buyer do a vet check on her.
Buyer was several states away from where I live, I am in SD so it was a long distance deal. Potential buyer
had a local equine vet come to my house and do the pre purchase exam.
It was February, so we had mud by day which freezes at night and has a tendency to make everything that's barefoot, a little sore. I told the potential buyer this, they claimed to understand.
Vet flexes the mare, she's 100% sound on all 4 legs on the flex test.
He hoof testers her, She was a little sore on her heels and toe on both front feet, which I figured she'd be, due to the freezing/thawing that time of year, no big deal.
Any other time of the year it would be a non issue and had she been shod, it would have been a non issue.
Vet xrays her, finds some "arthritic changes" in her left hock, she was starting to fuse. Front feet, ankles, knees, stifles, all clean. Again, flexed off sound.
Potential buyer was concerned about the heel pain on the hoof testers--all the mare needed was shoes.
The vet up here sent all of the info and xrays to the vet several states away, who advised the potential buyer to pass on the mare.
I ended up selling the mare a couple months later, for more money than I had advertised her for originally, disclosing everything I knew about her.
This buyer didn't even vet her because I told them everything and they'd bought another futurity horse from me before that they were really happy with.
So far this horse has made the finals at every big futurity she's been entered at this year (including Diamonds & Dirt), she's won one futurity and she's qualified for The American Finals. And she's never taken a lame step for her new owners.
^^This!
It's so subjective. No horse will totally pass a vet check, it's just seeing if what they have is something you can live with.
I'd stay out of it.
thats an interesting story. reminds me of a post i saw on FB today...Question: would you jump out of a plane with no parachute for $100,000? No? What if I then said the plane was on the ground? Point: you have to know all the facts before you make a decision :) |
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 Veteran
Posts: 151
| I am going to go against the grain here. I paid a lot of money earlier this year for one. My very first expensive, finished horse. Passed a vet check (flexed perfectly, only x-rayed a few areas due to flexes being great).
This horse has been a nightmare - I won't go into details, but unrideable since the 2nd time I rode him. I am out a ton of money - really all my saved horse money that I worked blood, sweat and tears for :(
I really dug deep a few months into the nightmare (think Sherlock Holmes), because I did a lot of Googling BEFORE I bought him and nothing bad surfaced.
Turns out he had miserably failed a vet check the week before I looked at him...flexed 3/5 on three limbs. This potential buyer felt horrible for me.
I did not pull a blood test at vet check, I imagine if I would have I could've saved a ton of money, a lot of heartache, and a huge strain on my marriage!
I did more than due diligence before buying and I still got royally burned and cheated. So Buyer Beware did not work out for me. I wish so badly that there was a "pipeline" or rip-off report for lying, cheating sellers. I don't know how you could spread the word, but if it was a big issue at YOUR vet check, I hope you try...
I know at one point, there was a post on here similar to this, OP said horse was listed on this site. So I pm'd to ask the name, and OP gave it to me. I though that was practical and respectful. She didn't slam the seller publicly, but if you were interested in the info, you got it.
Just my 2 cents  |
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | CrossCreek - 2014-11-21 7:56 PM thats an interesting story. reminds me of a post i saw on FB today...Question: would you jump out of a plane with no parachute for $100,000? No? What if I then said the plane was on the ground? Point: you have to know all the facts before you make a decision :)
Exactly. And I don't blame the person that passed on her, for doing so if her vet said to do so. It would have been one thing to be able to come and see the mare and everything else but being that far away and having to go on a strange vet's word and a seller you've never met, would not be easy.
I am just glad that it all worked out for her new owners and they've won a bunch with her. I don't sell many started horses, so I'd have felt pretty rotten if it had gone the other way. |
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| i bought a gelding that i knew had issues and wasn't sound. he was a nice gelding, but not sound. (old owners just decided they would keep running his legs off knowing he was hurting VERY bad) i bought him for a single digit amount, fixed him entirely. (which wasn't even that hard) and now everywhere i take him he is in the top 10. super nice 1d gelding. Had a super bad alley issue, cinchy, people would think he was crazy. but fixed him right up and now i let my 12 year old sister ride him. He was passed around so a lot of people know the horse but not a lot of people know he has NO issues anymore. so you never know if the buyer fixed his issues with the vet or whatever they may be!! |
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Veteran
Posts: 264
| I know the frustration of wanting to say something, but I think it will only end badly for you.
There is a horse I know that is up for sale. He has broken the last 2 owners backs. After finally going to a vet they found out he has an old spinal injury that will pinch and cause him to buck. He is up for sale yet again and advertised as "safe and sound."  |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| I sold a prospect who had never taken a lame step. Vet check #1 he tested positive in a hock, very check #2 two weeks later and nothing. Vet stated he could have slipped that day creating that offness in round 1. That's how easy things can happen. Horse has never had hock issues and 10 years later. |
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 Toy Story Fanatic
Posts: 4148
Location: Oregon | turnedout - 2014-11-21 10:29 PM I know the frustration of wanting to say something, but I think it will only end badly for you. There is a horse I know that is up for sale. He has broken the last 2 owners backs. After finally going to a vet they found out he has an old spinal injury that will pinch and cause him to buck. He is up for sale yet again and advertised as "safe and sound."
This is one thing that hits me hard. I was run over by someone elses horse and snapped my left ankle in half. Everything, bones, tendons and nerves. This horse had tried to do it in the past to others and the owner actually advertised this crazy mare as sound, bomb proof and calm. That is the last this pained crazy mare was. I hate liars. She should have put her down. But instead she sold her to some unsuspecting person.
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Regular
Posts: 61
| rockinas - 2014-11-21 11:24 AM
Here are my 2 cents on vet checks.
They are VERY subjective.
A couple years ago I had a 3 year old DTF daughter for sale.
I had a prospective buyer do a vet check on her.
Buyer was several states away from where I live, I am in SD so it was a long distance deal. Potential buyer
had a local equine vet come to my house and do the pre purchase exam.
It was February, so we had mud by day which freezes at night and has a tendency to make everything that's barefoot, a little sore. I told the potential buyer this, they claimed to understand.
Vet flexes the mare, she's 100% sound on all 4 legs on the flex test.
He hoof testers her, She was a little sore on her heels and toe on both front feet, which I figured she'd be, due to the freezing/thawing that time of year, no big deal.
Any other time of the year it would be a non issue and had she been shod, it would have been a non issue.
Vet xrays her, finds some "arthritic changes" in her left hock, she was starting to fuse. Front feet, ankles, knees, stifles, all clean. Again, flexed off sound.
Potential buyer was concerned about the heel pain on the hoof testers--all the mare needed was shoes.
The vet up here sent all of the info and xrays to the vet several states away, who advised the potential buyer to pass on the mare.
I ended up selling the mare a couple months later, for more money than I had advertised her for originally, disclosing everything I knew about her.
This buyer didn't even vet her because I told them everything and they'd bought another futurity horse from me before that they were really happy with.
So far this horse has made the finals at every big futurity she's been entered at this year (including Diamonds & Dirt), she's won one futurity and she's qualified for The American Finals. And she's never taken a lame step for her new owners.
I posted about this exact thing on here a few months back. And if you have "uneducated" buyers it freaks them out when they first see a vet check. And I also want to add that without x-ray and even sometimes with, basically all the vet is doing is taking a educated guess about future possible performance, unless there is a major glaring problem. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Most horses will have something wrong with them, its all in how you see it. Anyhorse over 10/12 that is clocking will have wear and tear problems. Look at all the post for advice. Even horses that are posted never been injected may have never been to vet. But it is all sujective. |
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| Like others have said, unless a person close to you is interested in the horse I'd stay out of it. If you do say something, be prepared for the backlash. And unfortunately it might not just be from the seller. It's amazing the conversations people will have about someone behind their back, but when a person says it to their face they suddenly turn into the bad person.
With that being said, I know how frustrating it is to watch horses being falsely advertised. I just remind myself that these people are going to ruin their reputation on their own. I understand that it is buyer beware, but sometimes new or inexperienced buyers need advice and suggestions, and if they ask I'm happy to help. Otherwise, it's best to just stay out of it.
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Miss Not Exciting
Posts: 3279
Location: Ft Worth TX | My personal opinion here, I think it is of VITAL importance to pull a drug test for all pre-purchases regardless. I just had a horse I am selling with a pre-purchase done through a VERY VERY REPUTABLE tough vet. Flexed sound all the way around no problem, she had a bump on lower hock both buyer and vet were aware of, x rayed the bump and the vet said all it is going to effect is if the joint ever needs injected and that it is a calcified bump probably from a kick at a young age he was not concerned. The buyers vet and buyer were not ok with the bump over resale issues and so on and so fourth.... The vet that did the pre purchase works on some of the best horses in the rodeo and barrel racing industry, so I took her had x rays of the hock done for myself to have on file for potential buyers. The vet that did the pre purchase, my home vet, and vet I got x rays from all were not concerned with the bump in any way- so i'm not either.
Edited by Whoop Z Day Z 2014-11-22 12:00 PM
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | zipper - 2014-11-21 6:18 PM Basically a "failed" vet check is that the person looking to buy the horse couldn't live with issues or potential issues the horse may have or had. Its really no reflection of the soundess or unsoundess of the horse. As a vets wife, I'm likely to let something slide more than others because I can pay cost to deal with them whereas someone else is going to pay a boat load in maintenance.
I am so jelous. Anywas, to the OP, I wouldn't say anything. Not really my business. My horse wasn't completely clear on his vet check, he was slightly tender in his toe. I fell in love so opted to get him. As it turns out, he just has a wicked abscess. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 926
| This is such a sad post. The more we learn about 'arena sour' or 'alley issues' or 'crazy' we now are learning are all pain related. I feel bad for the folks looking at these horses, I feel bad for the horses that are hurting and most likely going to an uneducated owner.
I agree with the statement that they all have issues, it's how bad and can it be managed with a career as a barrel horse. Vet checks get you information so you know what you're dealing with and if you want to deal with it. How much will it cost? How frequently will they need it? At least you know going in. And I've had a vet check with 'the best leg guy in OK'....only to find the horse had a significant back issues and they didn't even catch it.
Bottom line I have to agree with others, if it isn't someone close to you, it could be a problem. It's just a shame we can't label these folks that sell hurt horses to unsuspecting buyers. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Most 3/-d riders dont kmow that if they would go,to the vet instead of a chiro and do,some medical things there horse coukd move up a knoch. The people whomhave the 1-d 2-d horses want to do maintance to keep,there horses there. And when they dont clock they are iff to the vet. Weathers it is hocks, stifles, or,in the front end. It is like you ifyour elbow hurts go,to the doc will inject. And ya feel better in a couple of days. With horses we are lucky to,have a lot of tools in the basket.
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I also know it is hard for peolple who,have been burned by vets. If thehorse has problems, get the xrays and contact several vets. Look at horses that are winning most have problems,like most people in there 40s have a neck, shoulder, knee, or backmthat hurts. But do u stoo life no, you fix and goon with life. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 805
Location: Montana | I have a 6 yr old gelding for sale, I have been very honest with people that he probably wouldn't pass a vet check. He has a large bump on a front leg and scars all over his legs from getting tangled up with a panel when he was two. On super cold days or if he has been locked up for a few days, he gets stiff but works out of it. I've been told I'm being to honest but I want to be known for being an honest seller. |
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Morale Booster!!
Posts: 1459
| Thanks for all the great responses. I will keep to myself :) Like everyone has mentioned, I know that if you look hard enough, you can find something wrong with every horse. And also if someone can get past the what I seen and what my vet seen, and it works for them, then they are lucky!! |
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 Veteran
Posts: 156
Location: Cypress, Texas | I've seen plenty of people go through problems with pre-purchase exams. From a horse the person knew had issues and just refused to say anything, all the way to someone telling everything that ever happened to the horse and something new popped up. My really close friend hauled a horse she was trying out all the way back home to vet check and the horse had way too many issues to mention. She brought the horse back and the owner said she knew all about them. Sure it would have been nice for the owner to own up to everything that was wrong. But at the same time she could not get mad at her because she never asked what exactly was going on with the horse, why he needed supplements or injects... ect. I have also been around horses that have been vet checked so many times the vet refused to make them anyone go through it again. I just wish with all the horses I've vet checked the local girls would have not pulled the "well I could have told you that" card and just been upfront when I asked. Good luck, i would just take it to heart next time you deal with that person again. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida |
Had a similar situation, horse I was interested in showed a major shoulder injury that would require injections at least once a year (I suspected so had that extra checked) also had the feet come up odd. I actually liked the horse as he was proven and currently placing, so it was a matter of what you want to deal with and the price. I made a lower offer and it was turned down. . . life goes on.
I have seen the horse priced much higher 3 years later and they are still not telling people the truth. They don't even tell people they keep injecting that shoulder so he stays sound.
I don't say a word. First, I think it is up to the buyer to do their research and it is not for me to decide what they find okay and not. I did my due diligence and I really don't think it's any of my business. But I do get a lump in my stomach everytime I see an add, or hear of someone looking at him.
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
Location: Kansas | I guess for me, it's the honesty aspect of the situation. If the horse doesn't pass a vet check, but the seller discloses all the information as to why the horse didn't pass....then they are being upfront with you. If they won't give you info as to why the horse didn't pass....then turn around selling the horse as "sound" and jack the price up higher....I'm not fond of those type of people and will look the other way. |
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 Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | It's scary. Every single one of my horses has a soundness issue and every single one of them would pass a vet check. I'm in the market now. Knowing there are people out there who are dishonest and how easy it is for the horse to seem sound even with X-rays.... well, it's causing me performance anxiety. In the old days I would have found one in a week. Now I'm afraid to make a move. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1162
Location: White Mountains of AZ | I think the potential buyer needs to do his/her own research about the horse. Needs to see it and trust his/her judgment. Yes if it was family or a close friend I'd tell them my concerns, but if not....just stay out of it I'd think...no use you getting in the middle of it! |
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Expert
Posts: 1694
Location: Willows, CA | I had a friend who liked a horse so much that she hauled it from Vet to Vet until she found one who would pass it. She then bought it. The end result was what you might expect, a cripple. It just goes to show you that there is a Vet somewhere who will pass it. That being the case, the ad may be true. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2041
Location: home for the winter...what a dumb idea | It's crazy what one vet will "pass" and one will not....I had a very nice 2d horse for sale last year. Sane as you can get had only had a problem due to hocks fusing(at 4) he was 8....fully discussed it with potentially buyer....had a couple come look at him as a trail horse for there son.....he would have worked great....there vet failed him in a vet check "cause she couldn't gerenty his stiffles wouldn't fail because he was a barrel horse" he never had aan issue I gave them my vets number and had talked to her so they could call even offered to send them the xrays I had done earlier that Year.....needless to say I lost a sale to a very uneducated vet ...sold horse a year later he has the best possible home...tail 4h gaming horse get lots of love and attention and doesn't have some kid jurking his mouth off all the time and leaving him tied to the trailer for hours at a high school rodeo some where ...
Edited by Rodeo_cowgirl 2014-11-25 8:49 PM
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boon
Posts: 1
| Vet checks are very subjective, but on to another point made on this forum about false advertisements.. Here is some food for thought:
When there is proof of winnings and how a horse is doing with a new owner (miles away from where the horse originated) how can it be a false advertisement if prospective buyers or past local girls who seen the horse with a different owner that didn't have the same luck as the current owner? If a horse is advertised with the current credentials of the horse with the owners at the time..and there is solid proof, how can you say its false advertisements? Just because you seen the horse with someone else and it wasn't what you thought the horse would be?
Another situation: A girl buys a horse that was considered a run away or a problem horse for one owner but than the next owner gets the horse and goes to winning on it... so it is advertised with current credentials.. Buyer comes, opts not to vet check, and takes the horse. Goes to a barrel race, basically blows the horse up, and demands to stop payment on a check and blahblahblah... Seller, gives ALL money back, never even cashed the check, and picks horse up, decides its not worth the battle, because it was someone local, yet, there was a contract where they buyer opted NOT to vet check... - Yet the buyer goes around with others blasting the seller for this, saying buyer beware and all kind of junk... How is that fair to a seller? They opted NOT to vet check, worked the horse, but than blew it up...
I guess in the long run, Buyers and Sellers, vet check or not, need to make their own decisions and quit blaming honesty issues on everyone else.
Edited by ldhranch 2014-11-26 11:50 AM
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Horse didn't pass vet check..