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Elite Veteran
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| We found an avulsion fragment off the carpid bone in my off the track mares knee 2 weeks ago. Dont want to spend the money on surgery but had it injected with HA and Cortisone then started her on Adequan. She's only 5 and was running 1D now won't finish her 2nd or 3rd barrel (the chip is behind her right knee and she's a lefty) but still can pull checks in the 3D doing this. Anyone have any kind of experience with these please let me know.
Edited by cowgirl156 2014-11-25 11:18 AM
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| I'd do the surgery, anything less would be irresponsible if you are still running her. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 953
| Whiteboy - 2014-11-25 11:11 AM
I'd do the surgery, anything less would be irresponsible if you are still running her.
Have you had experience with this? Surgery costs 1500 to 2000. |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| cowgirl156 - 2014-11-25 11:16 AM Whiteboy - 2014-11-25 11:11 AM I'd do the surgery, anything less would be irresponsible if you are still running her. Have you had experience with this? Surgery costs 1500 to 2000.
Yes I had two tb geldings off the track each had a bone chip in oposite front knees. We had the surgery performed and they were both like new afterward. $2000 is nothing when comparing a 1D horse to a 3D horse. I've heard that sometimes the chip will disolve, but I've also heard that sometimes people win the lottery. I'm not that lucky so I chose to bite the bullet and do the surgery. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 953
| Ok thanks for the advice. I was just worried she wouldn't come back the same after surgery. Yes 1d to 3d is a huge jump. I just wanted to try injecting first but it hasn't seem to help the problem. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1591
Location: East Texas | Both of my mares that had chips were insured and it was covered to have them removed. Well worth it, the only time I wouldn't do it, is if it was in a spot where it couldn't be removed. At my vets joint injections aren't cheao, and I have had to inject one on a gelding that couldn't be removed and it cost a lot of money every year to inject that knee. In the long run it will still cost as much to keep her running as it would to remove it. |
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | Whiteboy - 2014-11-25 11:11 AM I'd do the surgery, anything less would be irresponsible if you are still running her.
I have to agree and yes have had knees and ankles done. If what you are saying is that the chip is right behind the knee..think of it like you having something poking the crud out of you while you are jogging or running. I bet this mare is getting pinched when she runs. JMO |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | I had a TB race horse that had a chip in his knee and this was way back in the late 1980's and I had it removed and he went back to the track and ran a few races and then my sister started to jump him and he was sold as a Hunter Jumper and did very well.
The reason we took him off the track is the one close track lost some of their TB racing days and we would have to send him to the next state to race and decided it wasn't worth it.
It cost $1200.00 to have it done back then.
My FWF gelding had a chip removed in his one hock before I bought him when he was 4 years old and I retired him sound at 19.
Our daughter's all round horse had a chip in his hock and would travel great and then would come up sore. It was a floater. Had it taken out and he came back great also.
Edited by Nevertooold 2014-11-25 11:37 AM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I was always told never inject cortisone into a knee. I believe it says right on the package do not inject into a high motion joint.
Cortisone eats away at cartilage.
I would be discussing the injection and the surgical options with the most knowledgable and experienced surgical vet. As the cortisone will also impede healing and the cortisone and chip may have already done too much damage for the horse to recover 100 |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 953
| Well shes only 5 and hasn't been pushed untill this summer due to my schedule. I am going to look into surgeons today. Thanks guys. Looks like the vet who injected her wasn't very smart...$200+ bucks down the drain again. Appreciate everyones imput on this.  |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| I have a gelding that has a chip in his knee. We did not know it, he was one of those who ran and worked no matter what,never took a lame step and was clocking. It was found when he was in for something else and vet flexed his right front and he trotted off lame. By the time we found it he had also developed arthritis and we had missed our window to have it taken out. He was a 3 out of 5 when flexed. We retired him. Might want to ask about arthritis developing and complicating the situation. |
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 Veteran
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Location: South | My finished horse had a bone chip in her back ankle. Had is removed in September. I'll tell you she has never missed a beat. We actually go back for a recheck tomorrow to get her release from pasture rest. Our surgery was $1800, and I would gladly spend it again since you can't go buy her for that. |
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | I would probably do the surgery AFTER finding the best in your area for this surgery and getting his opinion. We did both knees on a gelding we ran on the track. Our surgeon said it was one of the worst messes he ever cleaned up on knees. He came back 100% sound. I would say though that you need to be prepared to give the horse all the recovery time he needs. Rushing the process is very counter-productive to a positive outcome. |
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Veteran
Posts: 161
Location: Right Where I'm Meant To Be :) | Has anyone else had experience when arthritis has developed in addition to the chip? Is there a place on the knee that surgery may not even work? Any input is appreciated! |
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 I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | cheryl makofka - 2014-11-25 10:38 AM I was always told never inject cortisone into a knee. I believe it says right on the package do not inject into a high motion joint. Cortisone eats away at cartilage. I would be discussing the injection and the surgical options with the most knowledgable and experienced surgical vet. As the cortisone will also impede healing and the cortisone and chip may have already done too much damage for the horse to recover 100
That's interesting because race trainers are notorious for injecting every joint. But then they don't really care, they are usually done with the horse after their 3 year old year anyway. Not their problem.
I don't believe in injecting anyway. Unless there is arthritis and it's the only way to keep the horse comfortable. However it is only a temporary fix. |
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Veteran
Posts: 291
| I had a 1D mare that we removed chips from her knee and then continued to inject her afterwards. If we were running her a lot we would also keep her on Adequan. You could really see a difference in her with the Adequan. |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
Location: Kansas | Whiteboy - 2014-11-25 11:11 AM I'd do the surgery, anything less would be irresponsible if you are still running her.
agreed |
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 Saint Stacey
| Floating chips will continue to cause damage until they are removed. Yes, I've had lots of experience with chips. Injecting will not solve the problem.
A 1D horse not able to finish the turns and drawing 3D checks is not something that I'd be happy with myself. That just means the horse is not able to run to its full potential but it is still trying to. That's a good way to ruin one. Yes, sugery sucks. But at this point you really don't have an option unless you just want a pasture ornament. Sorry to be blunt. |
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Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | rodeomom13 - 2014-11-25 1:51 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-11-25 10:38 AM I was always told never inject cortisone into a knee. I believe it says right on the package do not inject into a high motion joint. Cortisone eats away at cartilage. I would be discussing the injection and the surgical options with the most knowledgable and experienced surgical vet. As the cortisone will also impede healing and the cortisone and chip may have already done too much damage for the horse to recover 100 That's interesting because race trainers are notorious for injecting every joint. But then they don't really care, they are usually done with the horse after their 3 year old year anyway. Not their problem.
I don't believe in injecting anyway. Unless there is arthritis and it's the only way to keep the horse comfortable. However it is only a temporary fix.
Edited by total performance 2014-11-25 5:06 PM
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | total performance - 2014-11-25 3:41 PM rodeomom13 - 2014-11-25 1:51 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-11-25 10:38 AM I was always told never inject cortisone into a knee. I believe it says right on the package do not inject into a high motion joint. Cortisone eats away at cartilage. I would be discussing the injection and the surgical options with the most knowledgable and experienced surgical vet. As the cortisone will also impede healing and the cortisone and chip may have already done too much damage for the horse to recover 100 That's interesting because race trainers are notorious for injecting every joint. But then they don't really care, they are usually done with the horse after their 3 year old year anyway. Not their problem.
I don't believe in injecting anyway. Unless there is arthritis and it's the only way to keep the horse comfortable. However it is only a temporary fix.
Put your hatchet down and slowly step away from your computer.. |
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Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | Nevertooold - 2014-11-25 4:50 PM total performance - 2014-11-25 3:41 PM rodeomom13 - 2014-11-25 1:51 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-11-25 10:38 AM I was always told never inject cortisone into a knee. I believe it says right on the package do not inject into a high motion joint. Cortisone eats away at cartilage. I would be discussing the injection and the surgical options with the most knowledgable and experienced surgical vet. As the cortisone will also impede healing and the cortisone and chip may have already done too much damage for the horse to recover 100 That's interesting because race trainers are notorious for injecting every joint. But then they don't really care, they are usually done with the horse after their 3 year old year anyway. Not their problem.
I don't believe in injecting anyway. Unless there is arthritis and it's the only way to keep the horse comfortable. However it is only a temporary fix.
Ok, sorry! We are not all like that. |
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | total performance - 2014-11-25 3:41 PM rodeomom13 - 2014-11-25 1:51 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-11-25 10:38 AM I was always told never inject cortisone into a knee. I believe it says right on the package do not inject into a high motion joint. Cortisone eats away at cartilage. I would be discussing the injection and the surgical options with the most knowledgable and experienced surgical vet. As the cortisone will also impede healing and the cortisone and chip may have already done too much damage for the horse to recover 100 That's interesting because race trainers are notorious for injecting every joint. But then they don't really care, they are usually done with the horse after their 3 year old year anyway. Not their problem.
I don't believe in injecting anyway. Unless there is arthritis and it's the only way to keep the horse comfortable. However it is only a temporary fix.
When you have horses running thru their 5 and 6 year old years and then going immediately to the rodeo arena, and remaining sound into their late 20s and 30s, it means things were done right.
Edited by SC Wrangler 2014-11-25 9:15 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 953
| Has anyone used Amy Jergens out of Gill, co before for surgery? |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | My thoughts are with the price of injections and Adequan etc, you will have the $1500+ spent pretty fast and still have a chip. I would remove the chip for the same reasons everyone else listed. |
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I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | SC Wrangler - 2014-11-25 8:13 PM total performance - 2014-11-25 3:41 PM rodeomom13 - 2014-11-25 1:51 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-11-25 10:38 AM I was always told never inject cortisone into a knee. I believe it says right on the package do not inject into a high motion joint. Cortisone eats away at cartilage. I would be discussing the injection and the surgical options with the most knowledgable and experienced surgical vet. As the cortisone will also impede healing and the cortisone and chip may have already done too much damage for the horse to recover 100 That's interesting because race trainers are notorious for injecting every joint. But then they don't really care, they are usually done with the horse after their 3 year old year anyway. Not their problem.
I don't believe in injecting anyway. Unless there is arthritis and it's the only way to keep the horse comfortable. However it is only a temporary fix.
When you have horses running thru their 5 and 6 year old years and then going immediately to the rodeo arena, and remaining sound into their late 20s and 30s, it means things were done right.
WHOA!! What NTO said. Take a deep breath and count to 10. Maybe I should have said "some" race trainers. Sorry if I offended. Not my intention.
In recent years we've just been jilted by one trainer in particular, and had another one tell us that's the cure all. Long story. You have to admit though, there are a lot of trainers out there who over inject. There are a lot of trainers that don't care. I've witnessed it first hand. All they want to do is win. This goes along the same lines and the drug crackdown. Not all trainers use drugs, yet some honest trainers are being lumped with those who do. Again... Long story. |
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 Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | SKM - 2014-11-25 3:36 PM Floating chips will continue to cause damage until they are removed. Yes, I've had lots of experience with chips. Injecting will not solve the problem.
A 1D horse not able to finish the turns and drawing 3D checks is not something that I'd be happy with myself. That just means the horse is not able to run to its full potential but it is still trying to. That's a good way to ruin one. Yes, sugery sucks. But at this point you really don't have an option unless you just want a pasture ornament. Sorry to be blunt.
Ditto.
To me it would not be fair to the horse to continue to run it with the chips.
I'd spend the money and get the chips removed.
I've had it done---it was about $1600. But it was money well spent and the horse is going to be more comfortable because I had it done. |
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Saint Stacey
| cowgirl156 - 2014-11-25 8:36 PM Has anyone used Amy Jergens out of Gill, co before for surgery?
I haven't used her for chip surgery. She did surgery on my cryptocid mini pony though and I've used her for lameness. She has a very nice surgerical facility. She is very thorough and I can't complain about her prices. She's much more affordable than most. I've been pleased with the job she's done for me. |
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 Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country | If surgery is an option, I would do it now. I have a friend who had a top rodeo mare with a chip. Refused to have surgery due to the cost. Kept running and winning with maintenance until it got so bad that she wouldn't run through it. She finally had the surgery, but it was too late. Too much damage and the mare will never run again. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 953
| Thanks guys. Looking into it. Anyone have recomendations for the midwest? Not using Brunk in Grand Island. |
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | cowgirl156 - 2014-11-26 11:59 AM Thanks guys. Looking into it. Anyone have recomendations for the midwest? Not using Brunk in Grand Island. Dr Mez at Sturgis Equine Center in South Dakota did mine. Surgery was done in July and by the end of September I was back on her. She was running 1D & 2D times by November/December again.
Edited by rockinas 2014-11-26 2:04 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 953
| rockinas - 2014-11-26 2:02 PM
cowgirl156 - 2014-11-26 11:59 AM Thanks guys. Looking into it. Anyone have recomendations for the midwest? Not using Brunk in Grand Island. Dr Mez at Sturgis Equine Center in South Dakota did mine. Surgery was done in July and by the end of September I was back on her. She was running 1D & 2D times by November/December again.
Great not to far from me. I'll send X-ray's Friday. Thanks Amy! |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | cowgirl156 - 2014-11-26 2:25 PM rockinas - 2014-11-26 2:02 PM cowgirl156 - 2014-11-26 11:59 AM Thanks guys. Looking into it. Anyone have recomendations for the midwest? Not using Brunk in Grand Island. Dr Mez at Sturgis Equine Center in South Dakota did mine. Surgery was done in July and by the end of September I was back on her. She was running 1D & 2D times by November/December again. Great not to far from me. I'll send X-ray's Friday. Thanks Amy!
He helped my stud out when he had an Impaction colic in May. Heck of a nice guy. I was impressed. That was my first time ever at that clinic. They are supposed to be the best in the area. |
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | cowgirl156 - 2014-11-26 3:25 PM rockinas - 2014-11-26 2:02 PM cowgirl156 - 2014-11-26 11:59 AM Thanks guys. Looking into it. Anyone have recomendations for the midwest? Not using Brunk in Grand Island. Dr Mez at Sturgis Equine Center in South Dakota did mine. Surgery was done in July and by the end of September I was back on her. She was running 1D & 2D times by November/December again. Great not to far from me. I'll send X-ray's Friday. Thanks Amy!
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Knee chip question please help!