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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 721
 
Location: The Great West | how do I tell my son that I have to put down his 3yo Pride and joy? We had been gone and it got really cold and when we came home she was really lame. Made a vet appointment for her and it warmed up in the meantime and she improved but still wasn't 100%. X-rays showed navicular, the vet said "give me two weeks", he's doing some homework on a new drug, but I still wonder if it's worth it. She's 3 with 60ish rides on her and doing really well but green. There's no need for a second openion, the vet I usevis highly respected and it's very obvious on X-ray, even an untrained eye can see it. |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
  
Location: Kansas | Is she able to have special shoes to be sound? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 721
Location: The Great West | We never discussed it. The vets brother is a farrier and they work together but this mare is still way too green for my son to ride and where she's showing this early she probably won't be able to handle the rides to get her finished enough for him. |
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | navicular is very managable, its not the death sentence it used to be imo
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  Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | Why exactly are they saying the horse has navicular? What is it that they're seeing? I have heard many times that xrays arent necessarily a good indicator. I've had several vets say they have seen clean xrays that are three legged lame and horses with holes in their bones that were completely sound. I would at least try a different angle, some pads.I've seen show horses with navicular that are shod special and are sound and they stand up to a lot of arena time. Also, you don't always have to work one really hard to get them good and broke. |
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 Playing the Waiting Game
Posts: 2304
| IF you decide to put her down I would be totally honest with the son... THEY are way too smart and I feel would resent you when they figured out what happend to his pony. AND he will find out some time... I have always been honest with anything with my boys and humane deaths are a part of that.
I'd tell the boy that pony is hurting all the time and as a responsible horse owner sometimes they need to be put down. End of story... Don't put human emotions on the animal... WE are intelligent humans that are able to make these decisions. JMHO |
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 Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | I agree with being honest. I have a 4 yr old and 10 yr nephews who stay with me. We have had horses put down and one was their horse and butchered or put down farm animals. They understand and have for years that death is the part of life. One of our sows had piglets and one got stuck we had to put her down and then butchered her. My nephews where here and watched and helped handing us what we needed and looked after the baby pigs. When I put down their mare my nephews said their goodbyes before the vet came and they wanted to see after it was done so I let them. The youngest looked at the body and says shes not there anymore she has her wings and she is running now. We all cried and hugged. It is better for them to understand. My nephews know and will tell you dead is dead and you don't come back. I think that is important. |
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 Living within my means
Posts: 5128
Location: Randolph, Utah | Navicular isn't a death sentence. I had one diagnosed this summer special shoes, shoer checked X-rays and comes every 6 weeks, and he gets some medicine daily. I can't remember the name but I believe it's a blood thinner. This horse is dead sound and hasn't taken a lame step since putting the shoes on him.
Did your vet not give you any option on how how manage it? Putting down seems a little extreme to me. |
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 Potato Soup Queen
Location: Alabama | You're not seriously believing you need to put a 3 yr. old down due to navicular are you? I've never heard such a thing in all my life. What responsible Vet would ever say that to anyone? Navicular is NOT a death sentence by any stretch and I know adult horses competing for years with navicular and special shoeing that do well for many many years.
NO drug is going to work......get a better farrier and a second opinion. |
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 A Barrel Of Monkeys
Posts: 12972
Location: Texas | Farrierlady - 2014-11-26 3:24 PM You're not seriously believing you need to put a 3 yr. old down due to navicular are you? I've never heard such a thing in all my life. What responsible Vet would ever say that to anyone? Navicular is NOT a death sentence by any stretch and I know adult horses competing for years with navicular and special shoeing that do well for many many years.
NO drug is going to work......get a better farrier and a second opinion.
Wholeheartedly agree. You need another opinion. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 721
Location: The Great West | There are already large holes in her navicular bones, when I took her over on a good day she was #2 lame and probably a 4-5 when it was really cold. Even with special shoeing is it worth my time or fair to her to finish her when she's already so uncomfortable during cold spells? |
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 That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| de-nerve the horse and enjoy it for another 10-15 years. |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Rather than euthanize the horse, why don't you just find a home where someone is willing to spend some money on a good farrier? "Navicular" is such a wastebasket term anyway. The best remedy to begin with is a farrier who can do a nice, balanced trim.....for starters. That's what I would do, particularly on a 3 year old.
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 Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | suzy2qtee - 2014-11-26 2:25 PM IF you decide to put her down I would be totally honest with the son... THEY are way too smart and I feel would resent you when they figured out what happend to his pony. AND he will find out some time... I have always been honest with anything with my boys and humane deaths are a part of that.
I'd tell the boy that pony is hurting all the time and as a responsible horse owner sometimes they need to be put down. End of story... Don't put human emotions on the animal... WE are intelligent humans that are able to make these decisions. JMHO
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 Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | I too have had reputable vets tell me my horse had navicular with x-rays no less but I went and had a third opinion. The third time gave me the truth with a full 3D. X ray the culprit turned out to be an abcess. The vet was the best vet in Utah state.Right off the bat he asked the horses age when I told him five years old he immediate said the horse does't' have Navicular cause he ain't OLD enough! Get a second opinion!! |
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Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | I too have had reputable vets tell me my horse had navicular with x-rays no less but I went and had a third opinion. The third time gave me the truth with a full 3D. X ray the culprit turned out to be an abcess. The vet was the best vet in Utah state.Right off the bat he asked the horses age when I told him five years old he immediate said the horse does't' have Navicular cause he ain't OLD enough! Get a second opinion!! |
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| The drug your vet is looking into is probably Tildren. Or the new approved American version of it. It made my grade 3 lame horse absolutely sound! |
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 Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | There's no way I'd even consider putting a three year old down from navicular off of only one vets opinion. Navicular is so over diagnosed by vets. There a lot of perfectly sound horses with ugly navicular bones. The key is a great trimmer or farrier. |
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Farrierlady - 2014-11-26 3:24 PM
You're not seriously believing you need to put a 3 yr. old down due to navicular are you? I've never heard such a thing in all my life. What responsible Vet would ever say that to anyone? Navicular is NOT a death sentence by any stretch and I know adult horses competing for years with navicular and special shoeing that do well for many many years.
NO drug is going to work......get a better farrier and a second opinion.
Hear here!!! FL and I don"t often agree but here we DO!! Get an opinion from another (large animal) vet.. I never heard of a horse so young with such a problem. (except from a vet that was too lazy to do his/her job.)
Edited by komet. 2014-11-26 10:10 PM
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Black Horse - 2014-11-26 3:37 PM
There are already large holes in her navicular bones, when I took her over on a good day she was #2 lame and probably a 4-5 when it was really cold. Even with special shoeing is it worth my time or fair to her to finish her when she's already so uncomfortable during cold spells?
Those holes were caused by a bad abscess... they don't come any other way... You missed that? |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | PLEASE get another opinion .. post xrays if you can. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I hope you think again after reading this thread. That's the beauty of a place like this. I think it's safe to say that consensus is that the horse really doesn't need to be put down. There's nothing wrong with changing your mind, especially when you could be saving your son's horse. Let us know how everything goes. |
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Cold hands and Warm Heart
Location: oklahoma | Bibliafarm - 2014-11-26 10:24 PM
PLEASE get another opinion .. post xrays if you can.
I had one misdiagnosed. Good advice. |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | I remember the owner of Oklahoma Farriers Collage (Bud Beaston) telling our class he had dissected hundreds of hooves of horses put down due to "navicular"... and only found 2 that really had it..
Edited by komet. 2014-11-27 1:26 PM
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 Veteran
Posts: 149
Location: Mississippi | I agree could be abscess. We had one last summer with a really bad abscess and he showed holes. Ended up slufin off half his hoof, had a brand new one under it |
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 Cyber World Challenged
Posts: 2526
Location: My Own Little World | HotbearLVR - 2014-11-26 2:21 PM Rather than euthanize the horse, why don't you just find a home where someone is willing to spend some money on a good farrier? "Navicular" is such a wastebasket term anyway. The best remedy to begin with is a farrier who can do a nice, balanced trim.....for starters. That's what I would do, particularly on a 3 year old.
This is exactly how I am getting a very nice rope horse for my daughter. He was xrayed and told that he had "street founder." It's not traditional founder. No hoof wall separation and no coffin bone rotation. The coffin bone is VERY arthritic due to damaged blood supply as a young horse. The first Vet said put him down. 2nd vet says if I want, we will MRI his front feet to be sure, but he thnks that we can do OsPhos and stem cell therapy. 80% probability of bing 100% sound. 20% probability of him being able to work lightly. This horse is just that nice to take a risk on |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| A 3yo with navicular? Do you realize how uncommon that is? I would for sure have a second opinion. I've seen vets diagnose navicular, and then it just ended up being an abscess when we checked them out. I agree with everyone else, navicular is so over-diagnosed and is not even a death sentence. There are so many ways to keep a navicular horse comfortable, and useable for many years. I would consider changing vets if he did suggest putting it down without a second opinion. |
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 Mouhahaha
Posts: 1786
Location: British Columbia | HotbearLVR - 2014-11-26 3:21 PM
Rather than euthanize the horse, why don't you just find a home where someone is willing to spend some money on a good farrier? "Navicular" is such a wastebasket term anyway. The best remedy to begin with is a farrier who can do a nice, balanced trim.....for starters. That's what I would do, particularly on a 3 year old.
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | I had a horse RUNNING for 10 years for me with Navicular. Special Shoes and de nerving. Works wonders. It isn't a death sentence. Many of today's top horses have it. It's just a condition, not a life sentence.
Prayers for you.
Updates? |
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 Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
Location: Texas | suzy2qtee - 2014-11-26 2:25 PM IF you decide to put her down I would be totally honest with the son... THEY are way too smart and I feel would resent you when they figured out what happend to his pony. AND he will find out some time... I have always been honest with anything with my boys and humane deaths are a part of that.
I'd tell the boy that pony is hurting all the time and as a responsible horse owner sometimes they need to be put down. End of story... Don't put human emotions on the animal... WE are intelligent humans that are able to make these decisions. JMHO
When I was around 9 or so I came home from school and was told that my grandpa sold my shetland pony Lady. I was crushed and for years I was afraid that everytime I went to school they were going to sell one of my animals. I held that against them until I was grown, I thought they really sold her and didn't even care that I didn't get to say goodbye or anything. Lady was actually put down but my mom thought it was easier on me if she didn't tell me my horse was dead... just sold. If they had told me she was dead I would have been upset, but that is part of life and I would have understood.
Because of that I have always told my son the truth when it came to things like that. From the time he was able to talk to now. I have cried many times with him when his favorite chicken "Sweetie-bell" died, or his favorite rooster, a dog or whatever it was. He understands though, and he will get past it. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 999
Location: Sunny So Cal | 3 years old seems young to me to have navicular. I would get a second opinion. Navicular is also super managable. You need a good farrier, special shoes and a supplement or what the doctor recommends. The horse will be good as new. I would try the supplement THE NutraWOUND to help. But honestly I don't think the horse should be put down. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I wonder what the OP finally decided to do. I hope she posts a followup. |
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 Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | I admire people putting down their unsound (and unfixable) horses rather than unloading them on some unsuspecting buyer or sending them to the sale. But are you sure this is navicular? First of all, she's very young. Secondly, does navicular make them lame when it's cold? I never heard of that. But I'm no navicular expert. And even if it is navicular, there are so many things to try. My vet also told me about the new medicine that she is looking into for one of my horses. We also discussed denerving, which someone else on here suggested. My vet said it's a myth that they can't feel their feet. They just don't feel the pain. It just seems pretty radical to put a young horse down, especially someone's pride and joy, without really digging into it. Or maybe you have and we just don't know.
And if it turns out that you do have to put her down because she's in pain and you can't fix it, be honest with your son. Keep in mind that he will pick up on how YOU react. It's okay to show sadness. In fact, you should. You will be teaching him empathy. But you will also be teaching him responsibility and how to have the courage to do what's right for an animal even though it hurts us. This is what we do for the ones we love. And then I remind them that the other animals need some love now because we are all sad. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Bumping for an update. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | . |
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Cold hands and Warm Heart
Location: oklahoma | HotbearLVR - 2014-11-29 8:07 PM .
With the long weekend, she may be busy and not able to get another vet check yet. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I would just like to know what a vet plans to accomplish in just two weeks with navicular. So if no progress is made, then it's a hopeless situation? Is that what he thinks? Just wondering. |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | My moms old good mare was diagnosed as navicular as a 6 year old. My mom competed on her until she was 15. A majority of my brother's calf horses have been navicular because it's all we can afford. A little maintenance and they are good to go. We've nerved a couple, but mostly keep them on isoxuprine and corrective shoeing and a little bute when needed. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 721
Location: The Great West | HotbearLVR - 2014-11-30 7:43 AM I would just like to know what a vet plans to accomplish in just two weeks with navicular. So if no progress is made, then it's a hopeless situation? Is that what he thinks? Just wondering.
He's going to a conference this week were ther will be discussion on a new drug "osphos" that is comming out in the US, has been used in Europe for years. He wants to get more information about it from someone that isn't selling it.
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | hammer_time - 2014-11-30 2:18 PM
My moms old good mare was diagnosed as navicular as a 6 year old. My mom competed on her until she was 15. A majority of my brother's calf horses have been navicular because it's all we can afford. A little maintenance and they are good to go. We've nerved a couple, but mostly keep them on isoxuprine and corrective shoeing and a little bute when needed.
Isoxperine did wonders for both my navicular horses. So will corrective shoeing. And a good daily joint supplement. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 721
Location: The Great West | I did get a second openion yesterday (yes on Sunday...don't ask) and there are some signs of navicular but hesitates to make it his official diagnosis and thinks some slight changes in trimming and the winter off will help. He's also going to the same conference as vet #1 but agrees more info is needed before persuing osphos. So for everyone wanting an update, our son knows his young horses feet are sore, and she is getting extra sympathy cookies as a result. We'll see what info both vets come back with but likely will reassess in the spring. |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | So glad you are looking into this further..GOOD LUCK!! |
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 I am Woman hear me Roar
Posts: 3395
Location: Choctaw, Oklahoma | I say get another opinion!
Otherwise, if you are set on killing her. Be honest with your kid. Life isn't always sunshine and roses, and death is a part of life. Better that he learns now and sees it than never learning at all. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Thanks for the update and good luck |
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How do I tell my 7yo son...