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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 331
 
Location: Loma Linda, CA | So the other day I was practicing and someone came up and mentioned something called a 'bridle box'.
I personally have never heard that term before and I was told that the way that I ride is hindering my horse around the turn. However, in my lessons I've been told to lift (not pull) and so that's what I've been doing, mainly my horse moves off my legs.
The person said the bridle box is where you are able to move a horse off of 4 inches from the middle of their neck in any which way (kinda using neck reining). I thought it was a cool concept and watched some old NFR barrel racing vids and I don't see anyone yanking on their horse, and maybe they are riding with this 'bridle box'.?
What is the correct way to use my hands around the barrels? Or rather how do you use your hands around the barrels?
This is how I use my hands. Video is kinda blurry. Tons of lift and leg around the barrels.
Ignore that 3rd barrel :P And the fact he didn't start on the correct lead. That lead has officially been addressed :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7bDvoSVeIw&list=UUBC5Awrn6WgFlBaUI1...
Edited by Phxbarrel 2014-12-01 9:42 PM
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 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6437
 
Location: Montana | Because it was so far away, I couldn't really tell very well from your video. But my trainer says to keep your hands about horn height in the turn. I move my hands up a little further on my mare's neck between barrels, but I'm trying to keep forward motion as my mare is VERY ratey. Yes, you do lift...let me see if one of my videos gives you an idea. :) I am by no means perfect and I KNOW I have a lot to work on...soooo...don't copy the chicken wing thing, LOL. We aren't there yet, but we are getting there! :) Does this give you an idea? If not I'll try to post a pic.  ETA: I think it is also kind of a trainer thing, too, about hand positioning. I have heard Wrights like more forward, etc., so you may get a lot of diverse answer. I am by no means a trainer, just passing on what my trainer says. :)
http://youtu.be/1ra61LDBWr4?list=UUqNXc-SsVOnZQCvfFFjQMsw
Edited by mtcanchazer 2014-12-01 10:00 PM
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 Serious Snap Trapper
Posts: 4275
Location: In The Snow, AZ | I lift. But shoot, I could be doing it wrong too. But it's working. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 602
| Had some lessons from a reiner over the weekend, she kept saying ride with your feet not with your hands. She had me do spins and Ive never been great at them but how she taught me was super fun. I literally kept my hands on the horse's neck and drove the spin with my feet. If I used my reins, the mare would slow down. NFR girls seem to stay quiet with their hands. |
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | I don't think there is necessarily a "right" or "wrong" way to do this; ask 10 professionals and chances are you'll get 10 different answers. Ed Wright wants your hands up and forward....never coming further back than half way down your horses mane, other people say to keep your hands low and right in front of the pommel of your saddle. I personally believe the key to the game is learning to ride by feel and knowing when to do what by how a horse feels. As I start my colts, i'm able to manipulate my hands and body to fit that particular youngster. I try to not make my cues or the things I do too difficult so that when I go to sell a horse or train a horse for someone, they are easy to ride once i'm finished with them. I personally don't and can't ride with my hand as far forward as Ed Wright would like, nor do I ride with everything right in front of my pommel like in an equitation class. I just do what feels right on each horse and try to stay out of their way as much as possible and allow them to work on their own if they will. |
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | i agree mostly with herbie....but i ride very forward(im a big ed fan..lol..and his style works for me) with my hands and so all my colts are started that way....its what ever your most comfortable doing and what works for you and your horse ...dont try and fit into any box..just do what works for you
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 A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
Location: NC | Herbie - 2014-12-02 1:54 PM
I don't think there is necessarily a "right" or "wrong" way to do this; ask 10 professionals and chances are you'll get 10 different answers. Ed Wright wants your hands up and forward....never coming further back than half way down your horses mane, other people say to keep your hands low and right in front of the pommel of your saddle. I personally believe the key to the game is learning to ride by feel and knowing when to do what by how a horse feels. As I start my colts, i'm able to manipulate my hands and body to fit that particular youngster. I try to not make my cues or the things I do too difficult so that when I go to sell a horse or train a horse for someone, they are easy to ride once i'm finished with them. I personally don't and can't ride with my hand as far forward as Ed Wright would like, nor do I ride with everything right in front of my pommel like in an equitation class. I just do what feels right on each horse and try to stay out of their way as much as possible and allow them to work on their own if they will.
^^ This
Every horse will have its own style. Just like every rider has their own style.
I am FAR from an expert, but here's my deal.
I ride the "Josey" way which is the way my husband trains his. His usually work more off the outside rein so you have to have super short reins and you HAVE to slide your hand down the rein and tip their nose to turn. My hand usually stays within a foot of the horse. I pull back and slightly away, so by the time we are on the backside, my outside rein is helping finish the turn, if that makes sense. My inside leg is keeping him bent in the ribcage and my outside leg will help finish the turn if his hip doesn't follow his head.
I was taught to keep my hands in, not out. I ride with short reins compared to 95% of the riders I've seen. I don't have to have my hand stretched 40 feet outward or all the way to my ear or all the way to my knee to get contact on the outside. I pick him up slightly going into the barrel, pull gently towards my hip, then pull to the inside while giving him his head on the backside to finish the turn and snap back. (If that makes sense). I HAVE to have my hand slid down the rein or he won't turn. I can't ride like some do and never move my hand from the dead center of the rein. That pulls on both sides of the horse and just confuses the snot out of them.
It's all dependent on the horse really. My style has adjusted over the past year to what works best on my horse. It might not work for others, but it works for mine. And it works for me too.
Photo is of my hubby and a mare he trained and rode for 10 years. You can see how short he keeps the reins so that the outside reins makes contact with minimal movement of the hand. I ride a gelding he trained and seasoned, so they're pretty much the same style.
Edited by hlynn 2014-12-02 1:10 PM
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 Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | I've taught using the box idea but it was for pleasure and the box is a small area in front of the horn instead of a few inches all the way down the neck.
The 4" limit is a good idea if you can guide your horse within that. But that only works if the horse has a finished handle and they're light--- sometimes you have to help them a little bit. Quieter, less movements is always smoother and faster and more efficient but again the horse has to be that far along. Until the., you have to do what it takes to get the job done.
I will say that the further away you get from the neck when cuing the more likely you are to pull BACK instead of up. Part of that is due to balance-- the further away your body part is away from you the more off balance you become and the less control you have --- if you don't believe that try riding with your arms straight out. It's harder!
So I can see what they're saying but I think you have to take into account how much of a handle a Horse has and how well the rider rides. In the end I think quieter and closer is better but do what it takes to get the job done.
EDIT TO ADD --I do agree on keeping hands forward, ideally keeping them forward and close to the neck when cueing. That's different than the traditional box used for pleasure type stuff. If you notice, even reiners push their hands forward when they love faster but they don't stray far from the center of the neck.
Edited by Fairweather 2014-12-02 1:16 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 331
Location: Loma Linda, CA | Thanks everyone for all the replies. I'd say I ride more like 'Ed'. I keep them up (middle of the mane) and I prefer lift. I think my video shows that, but I am always open to other styles to see what fits my horse, but the lift thing helps him the most. He responds well and of course my leg cues. :P
It's super rainy here so I am still debating going to the barrel race tonight to do some time onlys and maybe make an actual run depending on how many people go. But, I live 45 minutes away and that could easily turn into a 3 hours drive lol... But the arena is covered so theres that. :P |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 507
Location: Lost in the corn of Iowa. | Phxbarrel - 2014-12-02 4:21 PM Thanks everyone for all the replies. I'd say I ride more like 'Ed'. I keep them up (middle of the mane) and I prefer lift. I think my video shows that, but I am always open to other styles to see what fits my horse, but the lift thing helps him the most. He responds well and of course my leg cues. :P It's super rainy here so I am still debating going to the barrel race tonight to do some time onlys and maybe make an actual run depending on how many people go. But, I live 45 minutes away and that could easily turn into a 3 hours drive lol... But the arena is covered so theres that. :P
I am so jealous of that statement right there!! I know this is about hand positioning, but it was 12* this morning here in Iowa. I'll take rainy over arctic blast any day. Just go and ride for all your hibernating northern bb's  |
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Total Germophobe
Posts: 6437
Location: Montana | Herbie - 2014-12-02 11:54 AM I don't think there is necessarily a "right" or "wrong" way to do this; ask 10 professionals and chances are you'll get 10 different answers. Ed Wright wants your hands up and forward....never coming further back than half way down your horses mane, other people say to keep your hands low and right in front of the pommel of your saddle. I personally believe the key to the game is learning to ride by feel and knowing when to do what by how a horse feels. As I start my colts, i'm able to manipulate my hands and body to fit that particular youngster. I try to not make my cues or the things I do too difficult so that when I go to sell a horse or train a horse for someone, they are easy to ride once i'm finished with them. I personally don't and can't ride with my hand as far forward as Ed Wright would like, nor do I ride with everything right in front of my pommel like in an equitation class. I just do what feels right on each horse and try to stay out of their way as much as possible and allow them to work on their own if they will.
I agree with Herbie too...that was what I was trying to say with my ETA.  |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 331
Location: Loma Linda, CA | I was told by the barrel race people to hold off till next week due to a 45 minute drive that will become a 3 hour one for me due to a bunch of accidents. But Thursday I could race too! And it shouldn't be raining. Thank goodness for covered arenas!
Iowa! Never been! How's the racing up there? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 507
Location: Lost in the corn of Iowa. | The racing is great...in the summer. We can race all year around if we wanted. And some do in fact. It's just very hard to keep one legged up with the single digit wind chill and snow and ice some days. We have both indoor, outdoor and covered arenas that we can travel too. I'm in Eastern Iowa so there are a good few that are within a few hours drive for me. And yes a few hours drive is pretty good, especially when we live in pig and cow country. LOL!! We do have a really nice Pro Rodeo arena that we run in a couple times a year that's close. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 331
Location: Loma Linda, CA | Thats awesome. I just moved to Southern CA from AZ. AZ there was always something going on every weekend whether gymkhana or actual race or buckle series.
Seems that way out here in CA too now that I'm really looking into it.
Tuesday/Thursday barrel races for money.
Most races seem to be for money than for buckles. Tons of associations for barrel racing, wine country barrel racers, west coast barrel racing association and I think like a million more associations lol. This rain is weird, usually it's dry and even temped. I couldn't do the cold. Or snow. Or anything overly wet that equates to moisture more than a few times a year. Lol. Desert rat all the way. :P |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| By watching the video I would say the horse has too much bit for your hands.
Everytime you pick up the horse drops his head and works behind the bit.
I have used the terminology of the box before when describing to people how to ride my horses.
I ride all my horses in a box I am a forward rider and am an Ed junky but I keep my hands low (lateral) but high on the horses neck I don't necessarily lift up (vertical) as then the horse has no where to go but slow down or go up.
If you move your hand to the side then you are opening the door for them to turn without loosing momentum.
If you watch the NFR girls most are riding forward with their hands (close to ears) but not lifting up. |
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 Playing the Waiting Game
Posts: 2304
| cheryl makofka - 2014-12-02 11:04 PM By watching the video I would say the horse has too much bit for your hands. Everytime you pick up the horse drops his head and works behind the bit. I have used the terminology of the box before when describing to people how to ride my horses. I ride all my horses in a box I am a forward rider and am an Ed junky but I keep my hands low (lateral) but high on the horses neck I don't necessarily lift up (vertical) as then the horse has no where to go but slow down or go up. If you move your hand to the side then you are opening the door for them to turn without loosing momentum. If you watch the NFR girls most are riding forward with their hands (close to ears) but not lifting up.
I like how you worded that. |
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 Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4553
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | No higher than your nose and no lower than your toes. Evrything in between is fair game so long you are able to have accomplishment. |
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Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | cow pie - 2014-12-04 1:35 PM No higher than your nose and no lower than your toes. Evrything in between is fair game so long you are able to have accomplishment.
  ...you make a very valid point...lol
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 371
| how I have been taught is to take my hand to the barrel idealy. If my horse is in good position my hand will only move a few inches. i ride with my reins short. going into the barrel of i feel that she is shouldering i lift and use my inside leg. coming out i will apply as much pressure as needed on the outside of the neck along with outside leg to finish the barrel. my hands are also about half way up the neck and a couple inches above the neck.
edit to add that I also ride in a mikes quick bit which is solid and has no gag action so i ride very light with my hands as my horse is very light and responsive. I like this bit because I like to have an immediate response. If i need it i want it now, not delayed like it would be with a gag
Edited by abdittmer1154 2014-12-04 5:33 AM
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 I Chore in Chucks
Posts: 2882
Location: MD | I think a lot of horses are different but i tend to lean towards lifting vs pulling. I stay within the pommel and 1/2 way up their neck. keep my elbows at a right angle or lower. (of course when I run my horses I'm looking like I'm doing "The Chicken Dance.") One horse is a lift all the way around, the other responds to a couple bumps and keep his nose, but not too much so he can work. I've noticed when the NFR girls are racing they are all over the board with their hands and the way they are going around the barrels, but they are all quiet with them! I don't think there is one right answer as long as you're doing what works for you and your horse you're doing it right! |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | I grew up being taught I had a dinner plate was right in front of saddle horn and that was where the action needed to be. After spending some time with WrapSnap at his clinic and Liana on my two year old I'm working on my hands being further up on the neck and more like a steering wheel. When I ride them down I tend to 'ride them down' and right over the barrel, especially the second, or cause some problems with picking up leads. I'm riding more with my feet too. I've made some progress. Old habits die hard but I'm working on it. I need to learn too because this is how my girl will run. It's easier to retrain me and costs nothing but time; heck of a stupid idea to pay for a great trainer who does an awesome job with your horse and then not adapt. :)
ETA: Obviously the previous style wasn't working that great for me anyway, lol.
Edited by oija 2014-12-04 10:12 AM
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 562
Location: Alabama | Herbie - 2014-12-02 11:54 AM
I don't think there is necessarily a "right" or "wrong" way to do this; ask 10 professionals and chances are you'll get 10 different answers. Ed Wright wants your hands up and forward....never coming further back than half way down your horses mane, other people say to keep your hands low and right in front of the pommel of your saddle. I personally believe the key to the game is learning to ride by feel and knowing when to do what by how a horse feels. As I start my colts, i'm able to manipulate my hands and body to fit that particular youngster. I try to not make my cues or the things I do too difficult so that when I go to sell a horse or train a horse for someone, they are easy to ride once i'm finished with them. I personally don't and can't ride with my hand as far forward as Ed Wright would like, nor do I ride with everything right in front of my pommel like in an equitation class. I just do what feels right on each horse and try to stay out of their way as much as possible and allow them to work on their own if they will.
I agree 100% with that Herbie said. |
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