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Extreme Veteran
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| What are the benefits/perks of running futurities as a 4 year old vs 5 year old?
I have seen why people wait until they are 5 years old (growth/maturity/etc). But I want to know what are the benefits/perks to running at 4. Are there any 4 year old only futurities? I live on the West Coast and I havent seen any out here that are only open to 4 year olds. |
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| I am in Minnesota, and I haven't been able to pattern my 4yo (will run as a 5yo) consistently since the beginning of November, unless I haul somewhere. Closest indoor arena to me is 30 miles away, so I only get there once a week if I'm lucky. Its all back roads, and if it snows I am screwed since I refuse to haul horses on roads that are less than perfect. This is how my life is going to be until at least end of April or early May. Thats 6 months of the year I am losing, where as other people can keep going. It's just not practical for me to have them ready to run as 4yo unless they're complete freaks of nature.
Actually, right now its hard to even ride them at home anywhere! We keep getting snow, followed by 35 degree days, followed by below zero days. . . which turns everything into ice. I am so over winter and its only early Decemeber! I am lucky that 99% of the futurities up here are open to 5yos.
I guess my response isn't very helpful, I'm just venting my frustrations LOL.
Edited by WrapN3MN 2014-12-03 1:04 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 550
| I don't futurity, but I know there are some 4 year old futurities.
Also I think for some, cost is an issue. With a 5 year old you have an extra year of feeding/shoeing/vet on a horse that isn't earning it's keep. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
| quikchik - 2014-12-03 12:13 PM I don't futurity, but I know there are some 4 year old futurities. Also I think for some, cost is an issue. With a 5 year old you have an extra year of feeding/shoeing/vet on a horse that isn't earning it's keep.
I have heard there are 4 year old only futurities, but i cannot find which ones are. Thank you for your response :) |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 550
| I'm on the east coast, so it may be different, but here is an early one locally:
http://www.southernrebelfuturity.com/entry_rules.html#rules
There are a few others this way, too. |
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 Expert
Posts: 5290
| Isin't Ft. Smith a 4 year old only? |
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Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | I thought BFA was mainly just for 4 years olds and there's tons of money in that. |
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | oija - 2014-12-03 1:42 PM I thought BFA was mainly just for 4 years olds and there's tons of money in that.
All of the BFA futurities are 4 and under. That is the advantage to running a 4 YO. Many of the 5 YO futurities are in the North and Northwest due to their weather and not being able to ride all year and get a colt ready. I have a 5 YO futurity horse; we ran him on the track as a 3 YO, so didn't start riding him until spring of his 4 YO year, so we'll be going to the 5 YO futurities that are within reasonable driving distances. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
| oija - 2014-12-03 12:42 PM I thought BFA was mainly just for 4 years olds and there's tons of money in that.
I thought the juvinile race & slot race was for coming 4 year olds. But i wasn't sure about the futurity. Same with Fort Smith... I cannot find any rules that state it is for 4 year old only. Many entry forms arent on websites since the new futurity year is starting. |
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 I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | I'm NOT saying ALL, but most people who do 4 year old futurities do it for the money. They have no patience and ram jam these horses so they can get more money sooner. They don't give a moment's thought to what that horse will become after that futurity year. How many horses that were tough in the 4 year old futurities become competitive years after? Not many. Most are burned up, blown up, or crippled.
Don't get me started on 3 year old futurities.
I think 5 should be the minimum. But that's just my opinion. Flame all you want, make excuses. But no one can deny what I said. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
| Are all BFA futurity sanctioned races open to 4 year old only? From any upcoming races i can find, they look to be that way. Again, since I am on the West Coast I may not be running my horse as a 4 year old... Damn those full time jobs!!! |
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 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | You have to be sure to read the rules. The futurity year starts on Dec 1 and goes through Nov 30th of the following year.
Some eastern futurities are 4 and under. Some are 5 and 4 year olds. Nothern and western states are mostly 4-5 year olds. Either way they can't have run in competition before Dec 1 to be eligible for that 12 month futurity year. |
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Extreme Veteran
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| OregonBR - 2014-12-03 1:03 PM You have to be sure to read the rules. The futurity year starts on Dec 1 and goes through Nov 30th of the following year.
Some eastern futurities are 4 and under. Some are 5 and 4 year olds. Nothern and western states are mostly 4-5 year olds. Either way they can't have run in competition before Dec 1 to be eligible for that 12 month futurity year.
I know when they cannot run before Dec 1 - I am familiar with many of the rules. I've been racing for a long time, and decided to raise and train (with help) my own to futurity. My filly is now coming 2 and I am trying to decide how serious I want to be about running her as 4 or 5 years old. If there is no added benefit to running at 4 (besides certain races back east) then I dont have to worry about it.
I am not in a financial position to haul back East (unless I find a sugar daddy... which i am currently accepting applications ). |
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | I am in a similar position as you with a 2 year old (coming 3). Even knowing that major money in the BFA is related to the 4 year old races, I have scheduled her training to be consistent with competing her 5 year old year and not her 4 year old one. |
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Veteran
Posts: 219
| Roundpen (Easy Dash Oak), Frenchmans Jester, Slick by Design, Skye (can't think of her name), christy Loflin's mare, Worm (Trula Churchill), The horse Shada Brazile made finals on last year, Brittany Pozzi's Duke, Firewater on the Rocks. Many more!
All competed as 4 year olds.
"A good horse is a good horse"
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | If they are ready as 4's i'll run them as 4's. If they aren't i'll run them as 5's but I try not to dictate my horse and where they will run too soon. My goal is to always go as a 4 YO simply because there are more options, but if I need to wait then I have no problem with that either. As mentioned before there are alot of great horses who ran as 4 YO futurity colts, there are also alot of great horses who never ran in a futurity at all, and yes, there are alot of futurity colts that never make it passed their 4 YO year. As a trainer or owner, it's important to find a program that works for you and your horses if you're not training them yourself, and to be sure that your trainer or jockey is understanding of what your objective is and don't be afraid to change trainers or programs if you don't like the results you're getting. |
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Location: Bigfoot Country | Herbie - 2014-12-03 3:48 PM
If they are ready as 4's i'll run them as 4's. If they aren't i'll run them as 5's but I try not to dictate my horse and where they will run too soon. My goal is to always go as a 4 YO simply because there are more options, but if I need to wait then I have no problem with that either. As mentioned before there are alot of great horses who ran as 4 YO futurity colts, there are also alot of great horses who never ran in a futurity at all, and yes, there are alot of futurity colts that never make it passed their 4 YO year. As a trainer or owner, it's important to find a program that works for you and your horses if you're not training them yourself, and to be sure that your trainer or jockey is understanding of what your objective is and don't be afraid to change trainers or programs if you don't like the results you're getting.
Well said! I agree, it's all about if they are ready, physically and mentally. |
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
Location: In my own world | Mis_Trev - 2014-12-03 1:52 PM Are all BFA futurity sanctioned races open to 4 year old only? From any upcoming races i can find, they look to be that way. Again, since I am on the West Coast I may not be running my horse as a 4 year old... Damn those full time jobs!!!
Yes all BFA sanctioned futurities are for 4 yr olds only. I'm not sure which ones those are though |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
| Thank you! Very well said. |
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Expert
Posts: 5290
| rodeomom13 - 2014-12-03 11:50 AM
I'm NOT saying ALL, but most people who do 4 year old futurities do it for the money. They have no patience and ram jam these horses so they can get more money sooner. They don't give a moment's thought to what that horse will become after that futurity year. How many horses that were tough in the 4 year old futurities become competitive years after? Not many. Most are burned up, blown up, or crippled.
Don't get me started on 3 year old futurities.
I think 5 should be the minimum. But that's just my opinion. Flame all you want, make excuses. But no one can deny what I said.
I agree 100 percent! |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Mis_Trev - 2014-12-03 12:09 PM OregonBR - 2014-12-03 1:03 PM You have to be sure to read the rules. The futurity year starts on Dec 1 and goes through Nov 30th of the following year.
Some eastern futurities are 4 and under. Some are 5 and 4 year olds. Nothern and western states are mostly 4-5 year olds. Either way they can't have run in competition before Dec 1 to be eligible for that 12 month futurity year. I know when they cannot run before Dec 1 - I am familiar with many of the rules. I've been racing for a long time, and decided to raise and train (with help) my own to futurity. My filly is now coming 2 and I am trying to decide how serious I want to be about running her as 4 or 5 years old. If there is no added benefit to running at 4 (besides certain races back east) then I dont have to worry about it.
I am not in a financial position to haul back East (unless I find a sugar daddy... which i am currently accepting applications).
It's not something any of us can tell you. If you don't have the money to travel to the south and east then stay close to home. The rules for the west coast futurities are easy to find. The biggest advantage of running as a 5 over a 4 is more maturity, more time to train and possibly more likely to have a longer career. But that last one isn't proven. There have been lots of 4 year old futurity horses that had long careers. The biggest majority of people in the NW run 5 year olds. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| rodeomom13 - 2014-12-03 11:50 AM I'm NOT saying ALL, but most people who do 4 year old futurities do it for the money. They have no patience and ram jam these horses so they can get more money sooner. They don't give a moment's thought to what that horse will become after that futurity year. How many horses that were tough in the 4 year old futurities become competitive years after? Not many. Most are burned up, blown up, or crippled.
Don't get me started on 3 year old futurities.
I think 5 should be the minimum. But that's just my opinion. Flame all you want, make excuses. But no one can deny what I said.
There are actually quite a few horses that ran as 4 year olds that will be running down the alley at the Thomas & Mack this week, helped the contestant get there, or are being bought at a back up horse.
Sheza Blazin Move (Loflin)
Guys Six Pack To Go (Laughlin)
Heza Bug Leo (Bean and previously took Meadors)
Kellies Chick (McLeod)
Streakinflingindisco (McLeod, backup)
Slick By Design (McLeod ran until he got sick @ Calgary & qualified on last year)
Sierra Hall Of Fame (Dennison)
Streakin Easy April (Pierce, backup)
A Streak Of Rita (Churchill)
LK Watch Me Rock (Lyne)
Dash Ta Diamonds (Pierce qualified on and then sold)
UR One Famous Rebel (Bean, backup)
There is quite a bit more money in the 4 year old only futurities (BFA World, Ft Smith) which draws people. But Diamonds and Dirt is 5 and under and it pays well too. It is just as easy to blow up a 4 year old as it is a 5 year old depending on who is holding the reins. I have watched countless futurity trainers in the practice pens over the years and the same people that "ram jam" their 4 year olds ram jam the older ones too. To each their own. |
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I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | 13 To Go - 2014-12-03 5:17 PM rodeomom13 - 2014-12-03 11:50 AM I'm NOT saying ALL, but most people who do 4 year old futurities do it for the money. They have no patience and ram jam these horses so they can get more money sooner. They don't give a moment's thought to what that horse will become after that futurity year. How many horses that were tough in the 4 year old futurities become competitive years after? Not many. Most are burned up, blown up, or crippled.
Don't get me started on 3 year old futurities.
I think 5 should be the minimum. But that's just my opinion. Flame all you want, make excuses. But no one can deny what I said. There are actually quite a few horses that ran as 4 year olds that will be running down the alley at the Thomas & Mack this week, helped the contestant get there, or are being bought at a back up horse.
Sheza Blazin Move (Loflin )
Guys Six Pack To Go (Laughlin )
Heza Bug Leo (Bean and previously took Meadors )
Kellies Chick (McLeod )
Streakinflingindisco (McLeod, backup )
Slick By Design (McLeod ran until he got sick @ Calgary & qualified on last year )
Sierra Hall Of Fame (Dennison )
Streakin Easy April (Pierce, backup )
A Streak Of Rita (Churchill )
LK Watch Me Rock (Lyne )
Dash Ta Diamonds (Pierce qualified on and then sold )
UR One Famous Rebel (Bean, backup )
There is quite a bit more money in the 4 year old only futurities (BFA World, Ft Smith ) which draws people. But Diamonds and Dirt is 5 and under and it pays well too. It is just as easy to blow up a 4 year old as it is a 5 year old depending on who is holding the reins. I have watched countless futurity trainers in the practice pens over the years and the same people that "ram jam" their 4 year olds ram jam the older ones too. To each their own.
That's fine. Can't dispute this list. But how many will qualify 5 years down the road? That's a very small percentage of horses that are actually run in futurities. 12 out of how many? I personally know at least 12 that ran in 4 year old futurities that are pasture ornaments, burnouts and broodmares. How many greats do you never hear from again? Way more than 12.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| rodeomom13 - 2014-12-03 4:28 PM
13 To Go - 2014-12-03 5:17 PM rodeomom13 - 2014-12-03 11:50 AM I'm NOT saying ALL, but most people who do 4 year old futurities do it for the money. They have no patience and ram jam these horses so they can get more money sooner. They don't give a moment's thought to what that horse will become after that futurity year. How many horses that were tough in the 4 year old futurities become competitive years after? Not many. Most are burned up, blown up, or crippled.
Don't get me started on 3 year old futurities.
I think 5 should be the minimum. But that's just my opinion. Flame all you want, make excuses. But no one can deny what I said. There are actually quite a few horses that ran as 4 year olds that will be running down the alley at the Thomas & Mack this week, helped the contestant get there, or are being bought at a back up horse.
Sheza Blazin Move (Loflin )
Guys Six Pack To Go (Laughlin )
Heza Bug Leo (Bean and previously took Meadors )
Kellies Chick (McLeod )
Streakinflingindisco (McLeod, backup )
Slick By Design (McLeod ran until he got sick @ Calgary & qualified on last year )
Sierra Hall Of Fame (Dennison )
Streakin Easy April (Pierce, backup )
A Streak Of Rita (Churchill )
LK Watch Me Rock (Lyne )
Dash Ta Diamonds (Pierce qualified on and then sold )
UR One Famous Rebel (Bean, backup )
There is quite a bit more money in the 4 year old only futurities (BFA World, Ft Smith ) which draws people. But Diamonds and Dirt is 5 and under and it pays well too. It is just as easy to blow up a 4 year old as it is a 5 year old depending on who is holding the reins. I have watched countless futurity trainers in the practice pens over the years and the same people that "ram jam" their 4 year olds ram jam the older ones too. To each their own.
Yes it's small, but it's a small percentage of people that can have the opportunity to go down the road and an even smaller percentage that can run in the "rodeo" conditions. Look at how many kids play HS footfall vs how many end up in the NFL. The futurities are like your HS and College years and the WPRA/NFR are your NFL type of people. When you keep going towards the top of the pyramid, your numbers are going to dwindle no matter what. There are also a lot of great futurity horses that end up being sold and just stay in their regional area because that person doesn't have the time/ability/money/etc. to travel. Doesn't mean they aren't good enough or blown up. Not everyone has that burning desired to haul 100,000 miles and be on the road that much. You don't hear about those horses because BHN doesn't report on everyone's backyard jackpots where some of those great futurity horses are still kicking a**. Again, JMO. But there are futurity trainers out there that run 4 year olds and do indeed care about their future. |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | rodeomom13 - 2014-12-03 12:50 PM I'm NOT saying ALL, but most people who do 4 year old futurities do it for the money. They have no patience and ram jam these horses so they can get more money sooner. They don't give a moment's thought to what that horse will become after that futurity year. How many horses that were tough in the 4 year old futurities become competitive years after? Not many. Most are burned up, blown up, or crippled.
Don't get me started on 3 year old futurities.
I think 5 should be the minimum. But that's just my opinion. Flame all you want, make excuses. But no one can deny what I said.
No flaming here. I feel the same way. Just not my style. You hardly hear of all the 3yr old super stars even the next year. The ones that are still running are truly survival of the fittest. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | 3 To Go - 2014-12-03 5:52 PM rodeomom13 - 2014-12-03 4:28 PM 13 To Go - 2014-12-03 5:17 PM rodeomom13 - 2014-12-03 11:50 AM I'm NOT saying ALL, but most people who do 4 year old futurities do it for the money. They have no patience and ram jam these horses so they can get more money sooner. They don't give a moment's thought to what that horse will become after that futurity year. How many horses that were tough in the 4 year old futurities become competitive years after? Not many. Most are burned up, blown up, or crippled.
Don't get me started on 3 year old futurities.
I think 5 should be the minimum. But that's just my opinion. Flame all you want, make excuses. But no one can deny what I said. There are actually quite a few horses that ran as 4 year olds that will be running down the alley at the Thomas & Mack this week, helped the contestant get there, or are being bought at a back up horse.
Sheza Blazin Move (Loflin )
Guys Six Pack To Go (Laughlin )
Heza Bug Leo (Bean and previously took Meadors )
Kellies Chick (McLeod )
Streakinflingindisco (McLeod, backup )
Slick By Design (McLeod ran until he got sick @ Calgary & qualified on last year )
Sierra Hall Of Fame (Dennison )
Streakin Easy April (Pierce, backup )
A Streak Of Rita (Churchill )
LK Watch Me Rock (Lyne )
Dash Ta Diamonds (Pierce qualified on and then sold )
UR One Famous Rebel (Bean, backup )
There is quite a bit more money in the 4 year old only futurities (BFA World, Ft Smith ) which draws people. But Diamonds and Dirt is 5 and under and it pays well too. It is just as easy to blow up a 4 year old as it is a 5 year old depending on who is holding the reins. I have watched countless futurity trainers in the practice pens over the years and the same people that "ram jam" their 4 year olds ram jam the older ones too. To each their own. Yes it's small, but it's a small percentage of people that can have the opportunity to go down the road and an even smaller percentage that can run in the "rodeo" conditions. Look at how many kids play HS footfall vs how many end up in the NFL. The futurities are like your HS and College years and the WPRA/NFR are your NFL type of people. When you keep going towards the top of the pyramid, your numbers are going to dwindle no matter what. There are also a lot of great futurity horses that end up being sold and just stay in their regional area because that person doesn't have the time/ability/money/etc. to travel. Doesn't mean they aren't good enough or blown up. Not everyone has that burning desired to haul 100,000 miles and be on the road that much. You don't hear about those horses because BHN doesn't report on everyone's backyard jackpots where some of those great futurity horses are still kicking a**. Again, JMO. But there are futurity trainers out there that run 4 year olds and do indeed care about their future.
That is a nice list and like the other said-12 out of how many? And for those 12 to still be running and winning make my other point, they truly the cream of the crop. I wish we had a number on how many are only broodmare sound or pasture ornaments. |
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Expert
Posts: 3300
| wyoming barrel racer - 2014-12-04 5:05 PM
3 To Go - 2014-12-03 5:52 PM rodeomom13 - 2014-12-03 4:28 PM 13 To Go - 2014-12-03 5:17 PM rodeomom13 - 2014-12-03 11:50 AM I'm NOT saying ALL, but most people who do 4 year old futurities do it for the money. They have no patience and ram jam these horses so they can get more money sooner. They don't give a moment's thought to what that horse will become after that futurity year. How many horses that were tough in the 4 year old futurities become competitive years after? Not many. Most are burned up, blown up, or crippled.
Don't get me started on 3 year old futurities.
I think 5 should be the minimum. But that's just my opinion. Flame all you want, make excuses. But no one can deny what I said. There are actually quite a few horses that ran as 4 year olds that will be running down the alley at the Thomas & Mack this week, helped the contestant get there, or are being bought at a back up horse.
Sheza Blazin Move (Loflin )
Guys Six Pack To Go (Laughlin )
Heza Bug Leo (Bean and previously took Meadors )
Kellies Chick (McLeod )
Streakinflingindisco (McLeod, backup )
Slick By Design (McLeod ran until he got sick @ Calgary & qualified on last year )
Sierra Hall Of Fame (Dennison )
Streakin Easy April (Pierce, backup )
A Streak Of Rita (Churchill )
LK Watch Me Rock (Lyne )
Dash Ta Diamonds (Pierce qualified on and then sold )
UR One Famous Rebel (Bean, backup )
There is quite a bit more money in the 4 year old only futurities (BFA World, Ft Smith ) which draws people. But Diamonds and Dirt is 5 and under and it pays well too. It is just as easy to blow up a 4 year old as it is a 5 year old depending on who is holding the reins. I have watched countless futurity trainers in the practice pens over the years and the same people that "ram jam" their 4 year olds ram jam the older ones too. To each their own. Yes it's small, but it's a small percentage of people that can have the opportunity to go down the road and an even smaller percentage that can run in the "rodeo" conditions. Look at how many kids play HS footfall vs how many end up in the NFL. The futurities are like your HS and College years and the WPRA/NFR are your NFL type of people. When you keep going towards the top of the pyramid, your numbers are going to dwindle no matter what. There are also a lot of great futurity horses that end up being sold and just stay in their regional area because that person doesn't have the time/ability/money/etc. to travel. Doesn't mean they aren't good enough or blown up. Not everyone has that burning desired to haul 100,000 miles and be on the road that much. You don't hear about those horses because BHN doesn't report on everyone's backyard jackpots where some of those great futurity horses are still kicking a**. Again, JMO. But there are futurity trainers out there that run 4 year olds and do indeed care about their future.
But how many get sold to people you don't know?!?! Most people sell them at the end of the year... If I bought one and was competing on it you would never know because I don't live somewhere that gets a lot of coverage nor do I have a big name |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| My daughter follows Michele McLeod on fb and she announced last week she will not be taking Slick this year after he made a 3d run at the Turkey Run in Oklahoma last weekend. Correct me if I'm wrong but please don't be rude! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| I apologize it was on Slick by Design fb fan page |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| iloveequine40 - 2014-12-03 5:27 PM
My daughter follows Michele McLeod on fb and she announced last week she will not be taking Slick this year after he made a 3d run at the Turkey Run in Oklahoma last weekend. Correct me if I'm wrong but please don't be rude!
Slick is not going this year. But she did use him for a good part of the year to help her qualify. |
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | iloveequine40 - 2014-12-03 7:27 PM
My daughter follows Michele McLeod on fb and she announced last week she will not be taking Slick this year after he made a 3d run at the Turkey Run in Oklahoma last weekend. Correct me if I'm wrong but please don't be rude!
I believe they said he had gotten a virus and wasn't feeling as good as he usually does. I don't think that was an all the time thing. He just was feeling more under the weather. Some of those really great NFR horses run in the 2D a certain amount of the time anyway. |
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I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | 3 To Go - 2014-12-03 5:52 PM rodeomom13 - 2014-12-03 4:28 PM 13 To Go - 2014-12-03 5:17 PM rodeomom13 - 2014-12-03 11:50 AM I'm NOT saying ALL, but most people who do 4 year old futurities do it for the money. They have no patience and ram jam these horses so they can get more money sooner. They don't give a moment's thought to what that horse will become after that futurity year. How many horses that were tough in the 4 year old futurities become competitive years after? Not many. Most are burned up, blown up, or crippled.
Don't get me started on 3 year old futurities.
I think 5 should be the minimum. But that's just my opinion. Flame all you want, make excuses. But no one can deny what I said. There are actually quite a few horses that ran as 4 year olds that will be running down the alley at the Thomas & Mack this week, helped the contestant get there, or are being bought at a back up horse.
Sheza Blazin Move (Loflin )
Guys Six Pack To Go (Laughlin )
Heza Bug Leo (Bean and previously took Meadors )
Kellies Chick (McLeod )
Streakinflingindisco (McLeod, backup )
Slick By Design (McLeod ran until he got sick @ Calgary & qualified on last year )
Sierra Hall Of Fame (Dennison )
Streakin Easy April (Pierce, backup )
A Streak Of Rita (Churchill )
LK Watch Me Rock (Lyne )
Dash Ta Diamonds (Pierce qualified on and then sold )
UR One Famous Rebel (Bean, backup )
There is quite a bit more money in the 4 year old only futurities (BFA World, Ft Smith ) which draws people. But Diamonds and Dirt is 5 and under and it pays well too. It is just as easy to blow up a 4 year old as it is a 5 year old depending on who is holding the reins. I have watched countless futurity trainers in the practice pens over the years and the same people that "ram jam" their 4 year olds ram jam the older ones too. To each their own. Yes it's small, but it's a small percentage of people that can have the opportunity to go down the road and an even smaller percentage that can run in the "rodeo" conditions. Look at how many kids play HS footfall vs how many end up in the NFL. The futurities are like your HS and College years and the WPRA/NFR are your NFL type of people. When you keep going towards the top of the pyramid, your numbers are going to dwindle no matter what. There are also a lot of great futurity horses that end up being sold and just stay in their regional area because that person doesn't have the time/ability/money/etc. to travel. Doesn't mean they aren't good enough or blown up. Not everyone has that burning desired to haul 100,000 miles and be on the road that much. You don't hear about those horses because BHN doesn't report on everyone's backyard jackpots where some of those great futurity horses are still kicking a**. Again, JMO. But there are futurity trainers out there that run 4 year olds and do indeed care about their future.
Like I said in my original post. Not ALL futurity trainers don't care. But there are 3 that I know personally that simply don't care. The horses are expendable. If the horse can't take it, they are gone. Because of their reputation of winning on horses that do work, people buy up these rejects with no idea that it's a flunky. I see it all the time. Sooner or later the horse is either for sale again for bargain price, or it just disappears.
Yes, I'm a little bitter when it comes to this topic. There are a lot of good talented horses that get thrown away because they aren't mature enough to go to futurities. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| Yes I am aware of the reasons. I was just confused bc I've sweet him listed as going on other news feeds as well.
2d horses are tough horses as well. I run in North Texas so I run against several nfr/pro ladies. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| FLITASTIC - 2014-12-03 2:31 PM
Isin't Ft. Smith a 4 year old only?
technically its possible for them to go up until they are 6 if you futuritied them their 5yr old year because their 6 would be their derby yr then. |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | astreakinchic - 2014-12-04 9:43 AM FLITASTIC - 2014-12-03 2:31 PM Isin't Ft. Smith a 4 year old only? technically its possible for them to go up until they are 6 if you futuritied them their 5yr old year because their 6 would be their derby yr then.
I believe Ft Smith is 4 year olds only. Are they eligible to run in the derby 2 years at Ft Smith? If not they can only run the derby as 5 year olds. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| What 3 yr old futurities are y'all talking about because the ONLY two I know of that you can run a 3yr old at is the juvenile at the BFA in OKC right now and the kindergarten at Unidilla. The Southern Rebel futurity occurs when they are technically 4 yr olds because its on Jan. 1st. They only ran in two as 3 yr olds...
Maybe y'all have more out west? But those are the only BFA approved ones for 3 yr olds.... |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| OregonBR - 2014-12-04 12:48 PM
astreakinchic - 2014-12-04 9:43 AM FLITASTIC - 2014-12-03 2:31 PM Isin't Ft. Smith a 4 year old only? technically its possible for them to go up until they are 6 if you futuritied them their 5yr old year because their 6 would be their derby yr then.
Yes... Cindy Arnold can shed some light on this too |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Well technically a LOT of the futurity rules state 20XX or before for a birth date. So even the 5 and under futurities, someone COULD run a 3 year old. But it doesn't happen much if ever.
I know BFA has a Juvenile for 3 year olds. But they are coming 4 in 3 weeks. So they will run in the 4 year old and under futurities for the 11 month period after January 1. |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | astreakinchic - 2014-12-04 9:53 AM OregonBR - 2014-12-04 12:48 PM astreakinchic - 2014-12-04 9:43 AM FLITASTIC - 2014-12-03 2:31 PM Isin't Ft. Smith a 4 year old only? technically its possible for them to go up until they are 6 if you futuritied them their 5yr old year because their 6 would be their derby yr then. Yes... Cindy Arnold can shed some light on this too
Thanks. I didn't know that. :~) |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| OregonBR - 2014-12-04 12:57 PM Well technically a LOT of the futurity rules state 20XX or before for a birth date. So even the 5 and under futurities, someone COULD run a 3 year old. But it doesn't happen much if ever.
I know BFA has a Juvenile for 3 year olds. But they are coming 4 in 3 weeks. So they will run in the 4 year old and under futurities for the 11 month period after January 1.
I dunno anyone whose ever done that back East. I wouldn't recommend that unless they wanted their booty spanked! I mean MG might try and pull and a quick one and try to slip a 5yr off as a 4yr in a small futurity but that was back in the old days.
OKC is the first time through the gates for 3 yr olds and they are LOST so lost even the ones with the best trainers out there. Its extremely hard to replicate the noise and excitement of OKC for those babies. Hound dog had been hauled everywhere and turned the the tops out of them but he looked like a pos in the juv. that year. Its a gamble and those superstakes horses that win somestimes are never heard from again. There are standouts that believe it or not put one spectular run together and then never get it put together again with no fault from owner, trainer, or vet. |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | astreakinchic - 2014-12-04 10:06 AM OregonBR - 2014-12-04 12:57 PM Well technically a LOT of the futurity rules state 20XX or before for a birth date. So even the 5 and under futurities, someone COULD run a 3 year old. But it doesn't happen much if ever.
I know BFA has a Juvenile for 3 year olds. But they are coming 4 in 3 weeks. So they will run in the 4 year old and under futurities for the 11 month period after January 1. I dunno anyone whose ever done that back East. I wouldn't recommend that unless they wanted their booty spanked! I mean MG might try and pull and a quick one and try to slip a 5yr off as a 4yr in a small futurity but that was back in the old days.
OKC is the first time through the gates for 3 yr olds and they are LOST so lost even the ones with the best trainers out there. Its extremely hard to replicate the noise and excitement of OKC for those babies. Hound dog had been hauled everywhere and turned the the tops out of them but he looked like a pos in the juv. that year. Its a gamble and those superstakes horses that win somestimes are never heard from again. There are standouts that believe it or not put one spectular run together and then never get it put together again with no fault from owner, trainer, or vet.
I'm not saying they are running 5 year olds in the 4 and under futurities. I'm saying they COULD run a 3 year old in a 4 OR 5 and under futurity. Because the rules say (Example) 2011 and before for the age of the horse. |
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 A very grounded girl
Posts: 5052
Location: Moving soon..... | I only went to one futurity in my life and my mare coliced. I personally would prefer 5 years and under. I do know that years back they had 5 year old futurities but it didn't last long. I do not do futurities because I don't have the money it takes to get them seasoned good enough. I have a mare that is 24 years old. She was run in the futurities and she has issues. I know that she would not have had those issues if she had been rested. We bought her when she was 10 and were not told anything about her past history. I do know who campaigned her at the futurities and all I will say to that is "no wonder" she has issues. The trainer that hauled her no longer hauls to futurities. My mare is turned out and will forever be retired. She will die on our place. It's sad because she is a really sweet mare.
Edited by Karol 2014-12-04 12:17 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| OregonBR - 2014-12-04 1:12 PM
astreakinchic - 2014-12-04 10:06 AM OregonBR - 2014-12-04 12:57 PM Well technically a LOT of the futurity rules state 20XX or before for a birth date. So even the 5 and under futurities, someone COULD run a 3 year old. But it doesn't happen much if ever.
I know BFA has a Juvenile for 3 year olds. But they are coming 4 in 3 weeks. So they will run in the 4 year old and under futurities for the 11 month period after January 1. I dunno anyone whose ever done that back East. I wouldn't recommend that unless they wanted their booty spanked! I mean MG might try and pull and a quick one and try to slip a 5yr off as a 4yr in a small futurity but that was back in the old days.
OKC is the first time through the gates for 3 yr olds and they are LOST so lost even the ones with the best trainers out there. Its extremely hard to replicate the noise and excitement of OKC for those babies. Hound dog had been hauled everywhere and turned the the tops out of them but he looked like a pos in the juv. that year. Its a gamble and those superstakes horses that win somestimes are never heard from again. There are standouts that believe it or not put one spectular run together and then never get it put together again with no fault from owner, trainer, or vet.
No I understood you...I'm sorry...I was just giving an example of things done differently.
Basically if you want to futurity on your own start with a small one, close to home, and one that has low fees. If your horse is one that you want futurited and you think will be a standout then send it to someone. Believe it or not most futurity trainers will be completely honest with you because they will not waste their time on something that won't work out. |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm |  |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | My take on it is, aim for 4 and if they aren't ready run them at 5. For my mares, I want their babies to get out there and get the best shot. If they miss their 4 year old year, hopefully they will get to run at 5... |
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12704
| I am also on the east coast. That I know of, there are -0- 5yo futurities east of the Mississippi. Futurities are 4yo or younger, and Derbies are for the 5yo's.
I futuritied Xena. She ran in 7 BFA events and won quite a bit.
She does have a stifle issue, but not sure at all that running her early had anything to do with it. All the vets who have treated her have agreed that her habit of kicking stall walls is more likely to have caused the issue.
Now that I have futuritied one I am not anxious to futurity another. I did want to get my DFP colt out for a few, but it isn't breaking my heart not to. He'll be a stronger open horse for a longer duration for waiting another year to get him going, I hope.
But if I do want to futurity, my only reasonable option is to go BFA and 4yo, due to location. |
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4 Year Old Futurity vs 5 Year Old