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Veteran
Posts: 286
 
Location: GA | I know first hand the devastating feeling of having a bad NFR. My rookie year, I DQ'd myself out of the avg. in the first round. It was completely my fault and not my horse. I confused and tore down my horses confidence. I spent the next 9 rounds telling Bull that I was sorry and trying to restore his confidence; and, my NFR earnings reflected that. The next year was much better for us. The difference between my experience and the girls this year, is that the ground was not their fault and it took them out of the avg. money. The horses were doing all that they could given what they felt underneath them. Given PROFESSIONALLY INSTALLED GROUND,every single horse out there, could have gotten their run, on any given night and won the round. Every single lady and their horses earned the position and deserved to be there. It would have made for some exciting watching, to have been able to watch the top 15 shine this year. They should have had a fair shot of getting the kind of runs, for us all to see, that they've made all year that got them to the NFR. I totally agree with Tammy, no one should have one critical thing to say about someone's riding or how their horses worked. Those poor gals were handicapped from the get go and set up for less than what their horses are capable of. Instead, I hope everyone says enough is enough and contacts by phone, email, letter and everything else to Shawn Davis, Carl Stressman, Las Vegas Event Center and make it clearly known that we expect better from them and demand PROFESSIONALLY PROVIDED GROUND. Shawn Davis does indeed own the ground, same tractor driver for 10+ years whose plow that he was using out there this year had missing teeth/rippers. Totally unexceptable from the PRCA, Las Vegas Events and the people in power that could do something, but just won't! Please don't ease up the pressure now, word is they are beginning to get the message. Let's make sure that they do, because there will be a NFR next year too, and the top 15 deserve/earned better! Let them know that people want to see some smoking great runs by next years, and following years Top 15. |
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 I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
 
Location: Online | Just a word of caution. I heard a completely different story, from a reliable inside source. There are always two sides to every story. Just sayin'.
Hopefully someone in the know will come on and tell the real story.  |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 865
| First couple rounds were dicey, but they stepped up to the plate and improved the ground. That was proven by the 13.6's ran in there. So complaining about the ground is getting old! There were horses that made nice runs. Can't always use the ground excuse. Just remember all 15 ladies had to run on a lot crappier ground at some rodeos just to make it to the Thomas and Mack! |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | I'll take what former and current NFR competitors have to say about the ground then some dude anyday.
Thanks for posting this, Clays Mom.
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | Tired..Tired...and by the way I am TIRED. The ground at TM should be the best anyone sees or runs on. You would think after 20 plus years at TM they could get it figured out....they don't because their attitude is "It's rodeo". Well if that is the case I would love to witness them winning the most improved ground award for 2015. Come on people we as spectators deserve better than what that ground delivers. |
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The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | Hope this gets more attention in the AM. Not sure those who have not competed at this level understand it? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 865
| rodeomom13 - 2014-12-15 8:48 PM
Just a word of caution. I heard a completely different story, from a reliable inside source. There are always two sides to every story. Just sayin'.
Hopefully someone in the know will come on and tell the real story.
I'm with you on this. Let's hear the other side of the story. |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | Texas Tornado - 2014-12-15 10:39 PM
rodeomom13 - 2014-12-15 8:48 PM
Just a word of caution. I heard a completely different story, from a reliable inside source. There are always two sides to every story. Just sayin'.
Hopefully someone in the know will come on and tell the real story.
I'm with you on this. Let's hear the other side of the story.
We've already seen the other side of the story. There's no need to hear it. There wasn't a horse there (except maybe Fuzz) that didn't have trouble with the ground at some point during the NFR. Some nights were absolutely scary and you could watch the ground crumbling out from under the horses as they attempted to do their job. No matter who's fault, there is NO excuse. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 865
| We're there any horses that got hurt in 10 Perfs? |
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Regular
Posts: 79
| I've run on some pretty treacherous ground.... like Calgary after the worse summer rain storm in history. Watching the majority of runs at the Thomas & Mack made me cringe.
This story is not old unless you've given up, or just don't care because you'll never make the NFR anyway. I don't usually post on boards and try hard to mind my own business, but I think social media has it's uses, and exposing this issue is one of them. |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | I would like to know why they didn't hand rake after each runner like they had been doing in the past? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| What about the ground they run on all year long to get there? There are so many more rodeos with ground way more treacherous than what they just got done running on and for way less money. At least everyone had the same handicap. Not like usual where the perfs are good and slack is bad or vice versa. No one thought it was bad enough to NOT run their good horse on (except for maybe Samantha who didn't run Pistoletta except for 2 rounds). There were several rodeos this year where I saw those girls climb off their good horse and run a colt because of the ground (Fallon and Trula both did at Red Lodge, MT). Didn't see Lisa get her backup or hardly anyone else. If the ground was truly that bad, why did all those girls risk their #1 horses night after night???? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 865
| 3 To Go - 2014-12-15 11:31 PM
What about the ground they run on all year long to get there? There are so many more rodeos with ground way more treacherous than what they just got done running on and for way less money. At least everyone had the same handicap. Not like usual where the perfs are good and slack is bad or vice versa. No one thought it was bad enough to NOT run their good horse on (except for maybe Samantha who didn't run Pistoletta except for 2 rounds). There were several rodeos this year where I saw those girls climb off their good horse and run a colt because of the ground (Fallon and Trula both did at Red Lodge, MT). Didn't see Lisa get her backup or hardly anyone else. If the ground was truly that bad, why did all those girls risk their #1 horses night after night????
Exactly!!! |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | 3 To Go - 2014-12-15 11:31 PM What about the ground they run on all year long to get there? There are so many more rodeos with ground way more treacherous than what they just got done running on and for way less money. At least everyone had the same handicap. Not like usual where the perfs are good and slack is bad or vice versa. No one thought it was bad enough to NOT run their good horse on (except for maybe Samantha who didn't run Pistoletta except for 2 rounds). There were several rodeos this year where I saw those girls climb off their good horse and run a colt because of the ground (Fallon and Trula both did at Red Lodge, MT). Didn't see Lisa get her backup or hardly anyone else. If the ground was truly that bad, why did all those girls risk their #1 horses night after night????
$19,000 to win a go. Calculated risk. And if none of them got hurt (and we don't know the outcome on that yet), it was by the Grace of God because there were some horrible slips and stumbles that would have taken out less athleticly gifted and experienced horses. |
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I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | WrapSnap - 2014-12-15 9:49 PM Texas Tornado - 2014-12-15 10:39 PM rodeomom13 - 2014-12-15 8:48 PM Just a word of caution. I heard a completely different story, from a reliable inside source. There are always two sides to every story. Just sayin'.
Hopefully someone in the know will come on and tell the real story. I'm with you on this. Let's hear the other side of the story. We've already seen the other side of the story. There's no need to hear it. There wasn't a horse there (except maybe Fuzz ) that didn't have trouble with the ground at some point during the NFR. Some nights were absolutely scary and you could watch the ground crumbling out from under the horses as they attempted to do their job. No matter who's fault, there is NO excuse.
No there is never an excuse for bad ground.
What is the other side? The part where some WPRA person went in and had it changed before the 1st round? It was not Shawn Davis at fault, he fixed it after the 2nd round. Since I am hearing this third person, I don't even know the real story.
Again, I wish someone associated with the WPRA would come on and explain. |
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 Rebel Without a Cause
Posts: 2758
Location: Adopt a homeless pet - www.petfinder.com! | All I can say is the barrel racing at the NFR this year was so dissapointing, and it wasn't the ladies and their horses fault. Having had record times and good ground last year I was so excited to watch this year, but having to watch them struggle, slip and slide, more often than not, it was a total bummer. I can't imagine working hard all year to get there and then having to deal with that.
Edited by Calangelo 2014-12-16 8:41 AM
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 Saint Stacey
| Some of you need to pull your heads out if your ass. There is a difference between bad ground and dangerous ground. That ground was dangerous at times. Yes, during the regular season some rodeos are less than ideal ground wise. But no girl should have to go to a rodeo the size if the NFR and be forced to decide what horse is disposable. That ground is hauled in specifically for THAT rodeo. It should be perfect. Rodeo has enough problems without a horse breaking a leg on national TV because Vegas was too lazy to do what is in the best interest of the contestants. No other rodeo is 10 runs in a row. It's usually just one run on bad ground. Gheesh. |
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| Either way, its hard for me to believe that the tractor had missing teeth on the ripper etc. Come on, its a multi million dollar rodeo. I have seen jackpots where tractors and implements were donated as advertisement. In LAS VEGAS, land of money, a brand new tractor and implements to work the ground is a drop of water in a bucket of ocean to them. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
Location: North of where I want to be | Bad ground is bad ground. Yes these ladies travel the road to the NFR running on less than stellar ground, but they come to the TM expecting the best, and it certainly was not that at all. When they have mother nature to deal with its a little easier to forgive bad ground. But inside, not so much. And maybe noone was injured but I would be willing to bet at least one of those horses that slipped had a rider who was sick to their stomach worried that they pulled or strained something.
Whatever side of the story you choose to land on the ground was BAD. It was one of the hardest NFRs ever to watch.
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 Leggs
Posts: 4680
Location: lexington KY | SKM - 2014-12-16 9:40 AM Some of you need to pull your heads out if your ass. There is a difference between bad ground and dangerous ground. That ground was dangerous at times. Yes, during the regular season some rodeos are less than ideal ground wise. But no girl should have to go to a rodeo the size if the NFR and be forced to decide what horse is disposable. That ground is hauled in specifically for THAT rodeo. It should be perfect. Rodeo has enough problems without a horse breaking a leg on national TV because Vegas was too lazy to do what is in the best interest of the contestants. No other rodeo is 10 runs in a row. It's usually just one run on bad ground. Gheesh.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 716
Location: who knows? | Yes they have ran on crappier ground during the year, but not 10 nights in a row!!!! And no excuse for it!!! |
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Veteran
Posts: 276
| Rodeo is rodeo, yes, but being this is the "super bowl" of rodeo and the most televised, not to mention it is indoors, so weather conditions are not an excuse, it should have the BEST ground. I will say though, I wouldn't place blame solely on the tractor driver or implement. You can go buy the most expensive implement and work your butt off, but if you don't have the right foundation of dirt, it still might not be great. There needs to be a committee of people there to ensure the ground will be desirable from the first day they start hauling it in. I would love to point fingers at Stressman, but the WPRA needs to step up and have a rep there preventing this issue, rather than waiting for it to be bad and then complaining. It is obvious Stressman doesn't care about the wellbeing of the cowboys, nonetheless the cowgirls. Almost every rodeo I have been to, whether it is an open rodeo, amateur, or WPRA/PRCA, unless there is someone there who CARES about the barrel racers, many of the stock contractors or those putting on the rodeo don't...at.all. WPRA needs to send someone in there to ensure that it gets done right. It is their job to stand up for their members. They need to be proactive on this, rather than waiting for a six-figure barrel horse to have to be put down, or one of our favorite ladies to have to be carried out on a stretcher. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 316
| It doesn't matter if they have ran on crappier ground.. They put themselves through that to make it to the T & M and they get there and have to run on even crappier ground than they did all year? They are supposed to be going from broke at this rodeo and pushing their horses to run for that world championship.. Do you think they all did that every round?! No way! If it would have been a calf horse having trouble with the ground in the box you know they would have fixed that right away. These horses are worth ALOT and the barrel racing damg sure brings a lot of money into the NFR and Vegas. They need to do something before the WPRA gets fed up with the ground conditions and pulls the event and goes somewhere else for the barrel racing. They will see how far fixing the ground will go then. |
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 You just got to get mean and mean it.
Location: Arkansas | Tatum2 - 2014-12-16 9:14 AM It doesn't matter if they have ran on crappier ground.. They put themselves through that to make it to the T & M and they get there and have to run on even crappier ground than they did all year? They are supposed to be going from broke at this rodeo and pushing their horses to run for that world championship.. Do you think they all did that every round?! No way! If it would have been a calf horse having trouble with the ground in the box you know they would have fixed that right away. These horses are worth ALOT and the barrel racing damg sure brings a lot of money into the NFR and Vegas. They need to do something before the WPRA gets fed up with the ground conditions and pulls the event and goes somewhere else for the barrel racing. They will see how far fixing the ground will go then.
Going to the NFR has always been on my bucket list, and I got to go last year. I liked the whole Las Vegas/NFR Experience so much, I wanted to go again. After watching it this year, I changed my mind. Too painful!! I don't think I could watch another NFR with the barrel horses trying to stand up on such crappy groud. Those poor horses were doing their best to do their thing on ground that gave away under them.  I wish that every last horse and rider had gone in and LOPED their run. I'm just not willing to sit idley by and watch an animal try to make a run and break a leg to be destroyed.
Here's my take on it. The WPRA and barrel racing is an added feature. I don't feel that the PRCA wouldn't be too unhappy if there wasn't a barrel race. It's all about the roping, bronc riding and bull's.
Any one remember the big rubarb a few year's ago when the PRCA want'd to bring barrel racing in house? And how WPRA fought it? Make's one wonder if it was a PRCA barrel race if the ground would improve and if this just a way of telling the barrel racer...See, you could have had it so much better. Personally, I think they're still trying to get rid of barrel racing at the NFR. It's still a Good Ole Boy mentality.
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 Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20917
Location: LouLouVille, OK | Nevertooold - 2014-12-15 9:26 PM I'll take what former and current NFR competitors have to say about the ground then some dude anyday.
Thanks for posting this, Clays Mom.
Im with you sista! and I am saying PREACH ON Clays mom!!! I know you know what your talkin bout girl! |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 805
Location: Montana | They need to hire the guys that bring in ground for the big cutting and reining futurities. I think they are called Kaiser (sp) or how about whoever brought in the ground for the American? |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where |
ARGH! Thank you!
That ground was unacceptable! I'd be insanely ****ed off if I had to run on it. It's ridiculous that their payoff for proving they're the best all year is to run on absolutely crap.
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| SKM - 2014-12-16 8:40 AM Some of you need to pull your heads out if your ass. There is a difference between bad ground and dangerous ground. That ground was dangerous at times. Yes, during the regular season some rodeos are less than ideal ground wise. But no girl should have to go to a rodeo the size if the NFR and be forced to decide what horse is disposable. That ground is hauled in specifically for THAT rodeo. It should be perfect. Rodeo has enough problems without a horse breaking a leg on national TV because Vegas was too lazy to do what is in the best interest of the contestants. No other rodeo is 10 runs in a row. It's usually just one run on bad ground. Gheesh.
I agree 110X over! I would have been BESIDE myself with worry if I would have had to run on that crap. I just really don't see ANY excuse - really. |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | 3 To Go - 2014-12-15 11:31 PM What about the ground they run on all year long to get there? There are so many more rodeos with ground way more treacherous than what they just got done running on and for way less money. At least everyone had the same handicap. Not like usual where the perfs are good and slack is bad or vice versa. No one thought it was bad enough to NOT run their good horse on (except for maybe Samantha who didn't run Pistoletta except for 2 rounds). There were several rodeos this year where I saw those girls climb off their good horse and run a colt because of the ground (Fallon and Trula both did at Red Lodge, MT). Didn't see Lisa get her backup or hardly anyone else. If the ground was truly that bad, why did all those girls risk their #1 horses night after night????
$238,756. That's the payout for 1st place in every round and 1st place in the average....that's the money at stake, plus the Top Gun Award, plus World Championships, plus sponsorships and endorsements.
EVERYTHING at the NFR should be the BEST. They pick the best stock for the other events. They pick the best announcers, bull fighters, pick up men, clowns, secretaries, judges, etc. The ground should be even from 1-15 for every event. The ground does not only affect the barrel racers. Rodeo horses are smart and will safety up, but they are the best because they are going hard and will tear themselves up.
The ground determined the World Champion in the barrel racing this year....and we should be much more upset about that than what she was wearing. She won fair and square, but on an even field those 10 days would have been completely different. I was really wanting to be out there this year, but after watching that night after night at home....I'm glad I wasn't. |
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You just got to get mean and mean it.
Location: Arkansas | rachellyn80 - 2014-12-16 11:26 AM 3 To Go - 2014-12-15 11:31 PM What about the ground they run on all year long to get there? There are so many more rodeos with ground way more treacherous than what they just got done running on and for way less money. At least everyone had the same handicap. Not like usual where the perfs are good and slack is bad or vice versa. No one thought it was bad enough to NOT run their good horse on (except for maybe Samantha who didn't run Pistoletta except for 2 rounds). There were several rodeos this year where I saw those girls climb off their good horse and run a colt because of the ground (Fallon and Trula both did at Red Lodge, MT). Didn't see Lisa get her backup or hardly anyone else. If the ground was truly that bad, why did all those girls risk their #1 horses night after night???? $238,756. That's the payout for 1st place in every round and 1st place in the average....that's the money at stake, plus the Top Gun Award, plus World Championships, plus sponsorships and endorsements.
EVERYTHING at the NFR should be the BEST. They pick the best stock for the other events. They pick the best announcers, bull fighters, pick up men, clowns, secretaries, judges, etc. The ground should be even from 1-15 for every event. The ground does not only affect the barrel racers. Rodeo horses are smart and will safety up, but they are the best because they are going hard and will tear themselves up.
The ground determined the World Champion in the barrel racing this year....and we should be much more upset about that than what she was wearing. She won fair and square, but on an even field those 10 days would have been completely different. I was really wanting to be out there this year, but after watching that night after night at home....I'm glad I wasn't.
And who bring's in the Best of the Best? It sure ain't the ground people. Who's in charge of that? Is it done on the cheap? Do they think it's good enough for who they are?
Running 2-3 times on crap ground might be ok, but not the number of times needed for the NFR.
One BB said it best, if she had a horse on loan or lease there , she'd be going and getting that horse while she still had a horse left.
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| The rough stock is determined by committees as I remember and essentially voted into place .... example - bareback horse of the year is voted on and always invited to buck out at the NFR. |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | The ground crew should be voted on by committee, just like everything else. |
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| 3 To Go - 2014-12-15 11:31 PM What about the ground they run on all year long to get there? There are so many more rodeos with ground way more treacherous than what they just got done running on and for way less money. At least everyone had the same handicap. Not like usual where the perfs are good and slack is bad or vice versa. No one thought it was bad enough to NOT run their good horse on (except for maybe Samantha who didn't run Pistoletta except for 2 rounds). There were several rodeos this year where I saw those girls climb off their good horse and run a colt because of the ground (Fallon and Trula both did at Red Lodge, MT). Didn't see Lisa get her backup or hardly anyone else. If the ground was truly that bad, why did all those girls risk their #1 horses night after night????
Maybe, Lisa, & others who had another horse to run & didn't switch, ran the horse they felt had the best shot at standing up.
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Expert
Posts: 1815
| rachellyn80 - 2014-12-16 11:26 AM 3 To Go - 2014-12-15 11:31 PM What about the ground they run on all year long to get there? There are so many more rodeos with ground way more treacherous than what they just got done running on and for way less money. At least everyone had the same handicap. Not like usual where the perfs are good and slack is bad or vice versa. No one thought it was bad enough to NOT run their good horse on (except for maybe Samantha who didn't run Pistoletta except for 2 rounds). There were several rodeos this year where I saw those girls climb off their good horse and run a colt because of the ground (Fallon and Trula both did at Red Lodge, MT). Didn't see Lisa get her backup or hardly anyone else. If the ground was truly that bad, why did all those girls risk their #1 horses night after night???? $238,756. That's the payout for 1st place in every round and 1st place in the average....that's the money at stake, plus the Top Gun Award, plus World Championships, plus sponsorships and endorsements.
EVERYTHING at the NFR should be the BEST. They pick the best stock for the other events. They pick the best announcers, bull fighters, pick up men, clowns, secretaries, judges, etc. The ground should be even from 1-15 for every event. The ground does not only affect the barrel racers. Rodeo horses are smart and will safety up, but they are the best because they are going hard and will tear themselves up.
The ground determined the World Champion in the barrel racing this year....and we should be much more upset about that than what she was wearing. She won fair and square, but on an even field those 10 days would have been completely different. I was really wanting to be out there this year, but after watching that night after night at home....I'm glad I wasn't.
I don't think this is a fair statement whatsoever.......the world champion was in the top 3 in the world prior to the NFR.......the chances of her winning the world on good ground are just as good as what she did in Vegas. Her horse slipped as much as any of them......including the down barrel, caused by a slip |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Rodeo ground is never fair and never will be. I know people who have refused to lend their horses to people at the NFR this year because of the ground. It is just expected to be bad. I feel like the WPRA should start taking steps to make these more fair all across the board. The american is really stepping the game up and doing everything they can to give those horses great ground to run on. The NFR should do the same.
I know one thing the semi-finals at Ft. Worth this year will arguably be one of, if not the most exciting barrel races ever ran. Best of the best man or woman. You've got the top horses in the country from youth, open, rodeo, and people who don't have the money to go up and down the road to qualify. Can't wait to watch!!
Edited by astreakinchic 2014-12-16 2:07 PM
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Our daughter and I go every year and it was aggravating to pay for seats to watch the top horses in the nation struggle to stand up on bad ground. We go to the NFR to watch a barrel race..not to see who can stand up the best on crap ground. It was very disappointing to say the least.  |
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 Expert
Posts: 1409
| mouse - 2014-12-16 1:41 PM rachellyn80 - 2014-12-16 11:26 AM 3 To Go - 2014-12-15 11:31 PM What about the ground they run on all year long to get there? There are so many more rodeos with ground way more treacherous than what they just got done running on and for way less money. At least everyone had the same handicap. Not like usual where the perfs are good and slack is bad or vice versa. No one thought it was bad enough to NOT run their good horse on (except for maybe Samantha who didn't run Pistoletta except for 2 rounds). There were several rodeos this year where I saw those girls climb off their good horse and run a colt because of the ground (Fallon and Trula both did at Red Lodge, MT). Didn't see Lisa get her backup or hardly anyone else. If the ground was truly that bad, why did all those girls risk their #1 horses night after night???? $238,756. That's the payout for 1st place in every round and 1st place in the average....that's the money at stake, plus the Top Gun Award, plus World Championships, plus sponsorships and endorsements.
EVERYTHING at the NFR should be the BEST. They pick the best stock for the other events. They pick the best announcers, bull fighters, pick up men, clowns, secretaries, judges, etc. The ground should be even from 1-15 for every event. The ground does not only affect the barrel racers. Rodeo horses are smart and will safety up, but they are the best because they are going hard and will tear themselves up.
The ground determined the World Champion in the barrel racing this year....and we should be much more upset about that than what she was wearing. She won fair and square, but on an even field those 10 days would have been completely different. I was really wanting to be out there this year, but after watching that night after night at home....I'm glad I wasn't.
I agree, not a correct statement about the ground determined the WC. The top 3 going in were the top 3 going out just in a different order. |
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Location: In my own little world | For anyone to say bad ground at the NFR is status quo because they run on crap ground all year long and should be use to it yada yada and accept it as being ok...it certainly sends a message to the committees. And that being why do they need to work at improving ground at their rodeos during the regular season because iffy ground is acceptable and done at the NFR as well. not much incentive there. Totaly unexceptable for a rodeo of that caliber. And if you think it is ok, all I can do is shake my head in disappointment.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 865
| If the expected standard is awesome jackpot ground @ NFR then yes it was crap for sure.
So if that is the standard expectation for this then there should be disappointment, however if not I would consider it pretty darn good rodeo ground |
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Saint Stacey
| Texas Tornado - 2014-12-16 11:59 PM
If the expected standard is awesome jackpot ground @ NFR then yes it was crap for sure.
So if that is the standard expectation for this then there should be disappointment, however if not I would consider it pretty darn good rodeo ground
No, it wasn't even good rodeo ground. We rodeoed in 7 states last year. One rodeo stopped slack and redid the ground because it was so bad (Akron CO). Salt Lake was about like the NFR ground and those horses had heck on it. Ogden was about like the NFR. Rodeo ground has come a long way and most committee's are trying to make it better. If you think dangerous rodeo ground is the norm, you might want to broaden your horizons and go a little more because your knowledge is way off base. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 555
Location: Puky midwest | I hope they change it, but remember, men don't change unless they want to. And sometimes they don't when they want to. No one is going to tell these men what to do. Unfortunately |
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 Ms. Elvis
Posts: 9606
Location: Running barrels or watching nascar | SKM - 2014-12-17 4:22 AM
Texas Tornado - 2014-12-16 11:59 PM
If the expected standard is awesome jackpot ground @ NFR then yes it was crap for sure.
So if that is the standard expectation for this then there should be disappointment, however if not I would consider it pretty darn good rodeo ground
No, it wasn't even good rodeo ground. We rodeoed in 7 states last year. One rodeo stopped slack and redid the ground because it was so bad (Akron CO ). Salt Lake was about like the NFR ground and those horses had heck on it. Ogden was about like the NFR. Rodeo ground has come a long way and most committee's are trying to make it better. If you think dangerous rodeo ground is the norm, you might want to broaden your horizons and go a little more because your knowledge is way off base.
Casper about a month ago stopped slack also. My horse that that normally stands on anything had trouble w/ it but it was better after they stopped, fixed it and reran whoever wanted to. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1767
Location: California | SKM - 2014-12-17 4:22 AM Texas Tornado - 2014-12-16 11:59 PM If the expected standard is awesome jackpot ground @ NFR then yes it was crap for sure. So if that is the standard expectation for this then there should be disappointment, however if not I would consider it pretty darn good rodeo ground No, it wasn't even good rodeo ground. We rodeoed in 7 states last year. One rodeo stopped slack and redid the ground because it was so bad (Akron CO ). Salt Lake was about like the NFR ground and those horses had heck on it. Ogden was about like the NFR. Rodeo ground has come a long way and most committee's are trying to make it better. If you think dangerous rodeo ground is the norm, you might want to broaden your horizons and go a little more because your knowledge is way off base.
This year I ended up driving a friend around to quite a few rodeos (she finished 18th) and I asked her where we went that she would consider a lot better than what was in the T&M, and the list was pretty short. It was just a different bad than a lot of other rodeos, but equally as bad as any of them. Unfortunately with rodeos, they use a lot of arenas that are not used all year long except for that weekend or when they go in buildings. Belton and Tuscon had horses fall and leave the arena without their riders. Reno ended one horses career and looked like it got another one in the short go but he ended up being alright. I watched 3 horses fall down at Casper in the slack, then Movin ran a 17.0 and then the majority went back to loosing their hind ends and skating around. At Colo Springs, they decided not to work the ground before the Finals because of the rain, it was like concrete by the Super Shootout time. Red Lodge, they stopped the rodeo after 50 girls, worked the ground and it still wasn't any better. At Greely in the short go it was super hard. Horses were loosing their hind ends and slipping pretty bad. My friend's horse fell on his knee at the third barrel. Another one got into a nasty wreck trying to stop. Vernal was good for slock, but it had rained quite a bit which looked like it really tightened up the ground. Lehi and Sheridan got pretty deep, if you weren't in the first few on the drag you probably weren't getting a check. Before our perf a thunderstorm passed through in Cody so it was a lake, but we heard it was good for slack. We were told that Cheyenne was the best it had been in years, and it looked pretty bad. A lot of horses got to that third barrel and said "forget this" and ended up really wide or decided to do a "Queen run" out of the arena. Livingston and Salinas were good, so was Spanish Fork from what I remember. It really seemed like everywhere we went, people would ask from home "How was the ground?" and my response was usually "Ehhh, I don't know, not great. Some horses fell then someone ran really fast. Go figure."
The committees try, but a lot of them don't know what they are doing (or they think it's a good idea to bring in sand and just leave it on top of the hard dirt!). If there was a higher standard all year long then it would be much easier to hold the NFR to a higher standard. But as long as a lot of these rodeos run on very similar ground (in terms of being bad) and the judges see it and think it's "alright" (even though it shouldn't be) then how do we as an association (the WPRA) begin to make changes? How to we hold the committees to a higher standard? I know some committees would just as easily not have the barrel race. I remember my friend and I talking about how we would gripe about the rodeo ground in California, but there was hardly anywhere this year that was much better! JMO. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 865
| Calibarrelrcr - 2014-12-17 1:33 PM
SKM - 2014-12-17 4:22 AM Texas Tornado - 2014-12-16 11:59 PM If the expected standard is awesome jackpot ground @ NFR then yes it was crap for sure. So if that is the standard expectation for this then there should be disappointment, however if not I would consider it pretty darn good rodeo ground No, it wasn't even good rodeo ground. We rodeoed in 7 states last year. One rodeo stopped slack and redid the ground because it was so bad (Akron CO ). Salt Lake was about like the NFR ground and those horses had heck on it. Ogden was about like the NFR. Rodeo ground has come a long way and most committee's are trying to make it better. If you think dangerous rodeo ground is the norm, you might want to broaden your horizons and go a little more because your knowledge is way off base.
The committees try, but a lot of them don't know what they are doing (or they think it's a good idea to bring in sand and just leave it on top of the hard dirt!). If there was a higher standard all year long then it would be much easier to hold the NFR to a higher standard. But as long as a lot of these rodeos run on very similar ground (in terms of being bad) and the judges see it and think it's "alright" (even though it shouldn't be) then how do we as an association (the WPRA) begin to make changes? How to we hold the committees to a higher standard? I know some committees would just as easily not have the barrel race. I remember my friend and I talking about how we would gripe about the rodeo ground in California, but there was hardly anywhere this year that was much better! JMO.
Calibarrelrcr you are exactly right!
Hopefully Barrelracer1983 read your post. |
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Ms. Elvis
Posts: 9606
Location: Running barrels or watching nascar | FYI, I was not talking about Casper in July, rather the rodeo in the indoor arena in November. |
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Veteran
Posts: 286
Location: GA | Email I sent to Mr. Christenson at LVE. pat@ lasvegasevents.com. Everyone should email Mr. Christenson, he may be in the position to do something for next years, and the following years NFR. Don't just let the concern fade away over this next year. If this year did not show people how bad it can be out there, then I do not know what can. Dear Mr. Christenson, I pray that Las Vegas Events will ensure professionally installed ground for next years National Finals Rodeo. Every event would benefit from it, from the best bucking stock losing their footing and going down in their hind end, to the best barrel racing horses in the world, slipping around and not being able to show their true power and speed. Not to mention, it's unsafe. I noticed the NASCAR post on LVE FaceBook page, I'm a huge fan of NASCAR! But, do you think that the race track officals out there at Las Vegas Motor Speedway would leave an oil spill in the turns of the track and say," Those guys are professional drivers, they can deal with those conditions." The answer is," Heck no, NASCAR is more professional than that!" This analogy is the same for both the stock, and contestants, at the Greatest Rodeo in the World! Shawn Davis with PRCA could have had professionals do the ground out there for years, but he has chosen not to for whatever reason. The people in power at PRCA/WPRA will say that it was just a freak thing out there this year with the ground and that it has always been good ground. The fact is, sir, that the ground in the Thomas and Mack has never been as good as the ground should be at the NFR. Last year it was as good as it has ever been, but not as good as professionally installed ground could be. Other professional sports would never think to not have the absolute best, professionally installed footing for their events. It behooves me to think that the management of the NFR does not do the same for the "Time Magazines Event of the Year". By not having professional footing, it makes the NFR appear amateurish in that aspect of the rodeo. The NFR should not look half done or amateurish on any level. Please, Mr. Christenson, help to see that next year, the "Super Bowl of Rodeo" is being professionally run and prepared for this once a year, as good as Rodeo gets, event.
Thank you,
Gloria Freeman
2x NFR Qualifier
Concerned Rodeo fan
Edited by clays mom 2014-12-17 11:23 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 286
Location: GA | I agree "rodeo ground" has become the normal description for bad ground. That is a total shame too. What example does the NFR ground set for committee's across this nation and Canada? It is long past time for the ground to be considered priority.If just one person on a ground committee had to drive the hours, invest the money , make the same sacrifices as the contestants do, I can assure you that the ground would be priority. Many just do not know the importance, others think the contractor does it, but a good many do try to make it as good as possible. The one thing that is for sure, is the people in charge of the NFR does not consider the ground a priorty. Shawn Davis does indeed have the final say as to how much work,effort and expense is put into the ground conditions at the Thomas and Mack. The PRCA trumps the WPRA when it comes to the NFR. I don't think it would matter too much who in the WPRA is working to get it better, SD has the final say. As far as knowing both sides to the story, so far, I have had an email from WPRA sent to me, a FB message from Jerri Mann (whom I totally respect and I know was trying her best) and Carolyn Vietor has called me twice. I don't know who I could've been talking to besides Shawn Davis himself that would know what was and wasn't done for the ground. I admit, I have not talked to SD directly; however, he may call me next.
Edited by clays mom 2014-12-17 11:02 PM
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10D Crack Champion
| Surely if an organization can afford to turn down $1 million from one network to actually pay another network to air the NFR for 10 days, then surely the same organization can afford to hire a top of the line professional grounds crew to make it the best ground available (with possibly brand new ground altogether).....not just rodeo ground.
Edited by sodapop 2014-12-18 12:52 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 2161
Location: NW. Florida | sodapop - 2014-12-18 12:50 AM Surely if an organization can afford to turn down $1 million from one network to actually pay another network to air the NFR for 10 days, then surely the same organization can afford to hire a top of the line professional grounds crew to make it the best ground available (with possibly brand new ground altogether).....not just rodeo ground.
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Veteran
Posts: 286
Location: GA | Here are some email addresses that you can send your concerns to. Please make them as cordial and professional as you can, and still get your point across.
Thank you,
Gloria Freeman
Shawn Davis - SDavis@Prorodeo.com
Karl Stressman's goes through his assistant, Anita Smith - ASmith@Prorodeo.com
PRCA
101 ProRodeo Drive
Colorado Springs, Co 80919
719-595-8840
At Las Vegas Events, Pat Christenson is who may can help.
pat@lasvegasevents.com
Edited by clays mom 2014-12-18 3:47 PM
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 I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
Location: Pacific Northwest | I grew up around rodeo. It wasn't until like 2009 I started going to jackpots and learned about the other side of barrel racing. I understand what it's like to have to run on less-than-stellar ground, and I've seen different committees put on rodeos or barrel races in the SAME arena, and depending on who works it, the ground is better. Just as an example, in my town we have an ammy rodeo. It's used as an arena year round but not really kept up all that great (raked every day with a tractor but not very deep). The guys that put on the rodeo don't really understand the ground so it's hit or miss every year. Sometimes it fast other times its slow. But when we put on jackpots there, and had a group of guys that KNEW how to work barrel racing ground, it was fantastic. However even for the rodeo it was never "dangerous", the horses just didn't always clock super fast.
That being said, there is a huge difference between "it's just rodeo ground, if you want perfect jackpot ground then go run at a jackpot" ground and "I really think I might witness a barrel horse break a leg during one of these 10 rounds" kind of ground. I've NEVER been nervous watching barrels before, EVER. Not even watching them run in mud. But I got super anxious every night this year, and not because I was excited, but because I was scared.
I have no idea what the grounds people at the NFR did or didn't do, I don't know if they really did all the could or not, etc. But I don't think the "it's rodeo, deal with it" is a good mind set to have. That's why the ground never gets better, because no one cares. But I'm sure everyone is going to start caring AFTER all these nice horses start breaking their legs. |
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Veteran
Posts: 286
Location: GA | I edited the email addresses; they should be right now. Thanks
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 "Tamer of the Fiery Dragon"
Posts: 5418
Location: Depends where the next barrel race is..... | It's a testament to the kind of horses that ran at the NFR this year. Any lesser of a horse would have fallen completely down. It's pretty sad when they had to put ice nails in Fuzz's shoes for him to stand up. He works in anything. They were falling in practice times. It's not good for the animals, it's not good for the riders and it's not good for our sport to draw scrutiny on it on national television because the competition environment was not good. If this had been the Kentucky Derby and horses were slipping it would have been a national outrage. We can't afford to have a horse permanently injured on National Television. It's tough enough to keep those away that want to shut rodeo down. Remember, no horse has a choice when they head down the alleyway. It is up to us to make it as safe as we can. It's the right thing to do. |
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NFR-Shawn Davis,Carl Stressman, Las Vegas Events