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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 349
 
| Ok soo I found out my horse works best at home in a rope halter or a draw gag that I have by dutton. But he doesnt run great in any of my hackamores or snaffle/gag bits I have. I feel the rest of the bits I have are too strong. I put a combo bit I have on him(Josey million dollar), bet yet but would prefer something less on his face. at cowboy christmas I saw a couple that kinda sparked my eye. Experience with either of these? https://www.facebook.com/bitborrowsteal/photos/pb.266865230096338.-2...
http://www.nrsworld.com/dutton-bits/dutton-twisted-snaffle-sliding-... |
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 No Tune in a Bucket
Posts: 2935
 
Location: Texas | No help but that first bit looks interesting. I would add it to my collection in a heart beat.
(no you do not need another bit, no you do not need another bit, no you do not need another bit....) |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 349
| Bump?? And I know I have a bit buying problem too!! |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
 
| Why do you have to step up from the dutton gag?
What is the horse doing when you pull?
The longer the shank, the more harsh, the more leverage the bit is. |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| I am no expert. Here is my thoughts on bits.
I start in an oring. My next step "up" is a jr cow horse. Then a med shank jr cow horse. Then a short shank combo. Then a med shank combo. I will not put long shank on anything. Obviously sometimes I will feel I need more immediate contact I'll do no gag or more of a delay I'll do more gag or more lift ect but I have certain stages I use in bits. You should figure out how much who you need (oring whoa, jr cowhorse whoa or combo bit whoa) and move side to side on how much bend, lift, delay (gag), or immediate contact (set mouth). I consider how much whoa being your severity scale (up & down) and your type of pull/bit is side to side (not more or less severe, just different).
That's just my OP :) |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 349
| I just have a gut feeling he would do best with nose pressure first with something with a light mouth. Not necessarily looking to"step up" just give him a feel he seems to like better |
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Veteran
Posts: 294
| I LOVE LOVE LOVE my Simplicity Bit. Very mild. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| You won't know until you try them, lol. Not much help I know, but you know your horse and if you feel he might like the nose pressure, then I would try the first one, especially if you can try before you buy. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| LeterBuck - 2014-12-15 11:18 PM
I just have a gut feeling he would do best with nose pressure first with something with a light mouth. Not necessarily looking to"step up" just give him a feel he seems to like better
Nose pressure is a step up bit.
You are adding more pressure points being triggered each and every time you apply pressure to the reins.
Since you are not saying what your horse is doing in each bit while running or what he does in competition, there is no point explaining the mechanics of each bit. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| How is nose pressure a step up? I am thinking of all the bridle horses started in bosals. |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| GLP - 2014-12-16 10:55 AM
How is nose pressure a step up? I am thinking of all the bridle horses started in bosals.
Lightest "combo" I can think of is the Johnson hack. I personally Love them. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| GLP - 2014-12-16 10:55 AM
How is nose pressure a step up? I am thinking of all the bridle horses started in bosals.
In this context.
She is wanting to add nose pressure to a gag bit.
You are adding more pressure points, by adding a nose band to a gag.
A gag you start out with lip, bar, tongue, and poll pressure.
If you add a noseband, now you have the nose, lip, bar, tongue, and poll pressure, you have added one more spot that will inflict pressure on the horse.
If you have a curb on the bridle then you introduce curb pressure |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| RoaniePonie11 - 2014-12-16 1:11 PM
GLP - 2014-12-16 10:55 AM
How is nose pressure a step up? I am thinking of all the bridle horses started in bosals.
Lightest "combo" I can think of is the Johnson hack. I personally Love them.
It all depends on what philosophy you believe.
Due to the mouthpiece being chain, I find this one rather harsh, as all those links dig into the tongue, there is bar pressure, and lip pressure.
I was speaking with Dutton at the NFR and he said if you take a twisted mouth piece then twist copper into that mouth piece, it has now become more severe due to one more ridge. I never thought of it that way, but definitely see it.
A smooth mouth piece with no ridges is your softest, Dutton also said that the way he makes his three piece is the dog bone does not make contact with the tongue and gives tongue relief. It also doesn't hit the palate.
Depending on the horse, sometimes these gag nosebands sit too low and can cause damage to the cartilage
Rope is also more severe then leather, but not as severe as chain again due to the ridges and give
If I use a combo, I like the reinsman o ring combo where the rope is independent and above the o ring. I believe a 3 piece is softer then a chain, and I use a slow twist or smooth. I do have some with copper inlay in the twist, now I am rethinking how I use those. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 349
| Ok let me re start what I was saying. I normally ride him in a smooth o ring snaffle or my smooth dutton Gag(no noseband) hes super soft in both moves everything. I HAVE ran him(slow, still exhibitons and novice races) in both and he turns the first amazing and just gets stronger on the back side headed to the second and looses rate. I have worked and ran him in a rope halter, side pull, and ed wright hack. He stands up better and chills out with that nose pressure first. As we are starting to step up speed i just feel like we need(light) mouth pressure as well to keep bend.
ETA: I have used short/medium shank bits but I really want to stay away from"stepping up" like that until I have him 100% finished....maybe I am just crazy... 
Edited by LeterBuck 2014-12-16 3:58 PM
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 346
Location: USA | Bumpin this up for ya!  |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 349
| thank you
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 Cyber World Challenged
Posts: 2526
Location: My Own Little World | So, here's my 2 cents for what it's worth. lol I am a hackamore lover. And if you are looking for something that has nose pressure , is soft but has some rate to it, I'd get a Ronny Clampitt hack. Friend request him on FB and he has a TON of video. My sensitive, hard running free runner LOVES this bridle. |
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| cheryl makofka - 2014-12-16 2:15 PM
RoaniePonie11 - 2014-12-16 1:11 PM
GLP - 2014-12-16 10:55 AM
How is nose pressure a step up? I am thinking of all the bridle horses started in bosals.
Lightest "combo" I can think of is the Johnson hack. I personally Love them.
It all depends on what philosophy you believe.
Due to the mouthpiece being chain, I find this one rather harsh, as all those links dig into the tongue, there is bar pressure, and lip pressure.
I was speaking with Dutton at the NFR and he said if you take a twisted mouth piece then twist copper into that mouth piece, it has now become more severe due to one more ridge. I never thought of it that way, but definitely see it.
A smooth mouth piece with no ridges is your softest, Dutton also said that the way he makes his three piece is the dog bone does not make contact with the tongue and gives tongue relief. It also doesn't hit the palate.
Depending on the horse, sometimes these gag nosebands sit too low and can cause damage to the cartilage
Rope is also more severe then leather, but not as severe as chain again due to the ridges and give
If I use a combo, I like the reinsman o ring combo where the rope is independent and above the o ring. I believe a 3 piece is softer then a chain, and I use a slow twist or smooth. I do have some with copper inlay in the twist, now I am rethinking how I use those.
Actually, a chain mouthpiece is not severe at all in fact it would be one of the lightest mouthpieces. A chain having all the brakes in the mouthpiece conform to the mouth without pressure to the pallet. Many horses tend to favor and are happiest in a chain mouth |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 349
| looked up the Clampitt hack...seems really cool
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| JagsLuck - 2014-12-17 9:49 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-12-16 2:15 PM
RoaniePonie11 - 2014-12-16 1:11 PM
GLP - 2014-12-16 10:55 AM
How is nose pressure a step up? I am thinking of all the bridle horses started in bosals.
Lightest "combo" I can think of is the Johnson hack. I personally Love them.
It all depends on what philosophy you believe.
Due to the mouthpiece being chain, I find this one rather harsh, as all those links dig into the tongue, there is bar pressure, and lip pressure.
I was speaking with Dutton at the NFR and he said if you take a twisted mouth piece then twist copper into that mouth piece, it has now become more severe due to one more ridge. I never thought of it that way, but definitely see it.
A smooth mouth piece with no ridges is your softest, Dutton also said that the way he makes his three piece is the dog bone does not make contact with the tongue and gives tongue relief. It also doesn't hit the palate.
Depending on the horse, sometimes these gag nosebands sit too low and can cause damage to the cartilage
Rope is also more severe then leather, but not as severe as chain again due to the ridges and give
If I use a combo, I like the reinsman o ring combo where the rope is independent and above the o ring. I believe a 3 piece is softer then a chain, and I use a slow twist or smooth. I do have some with copper inlay in the twist, now I am rethinking how I use those.
Actually, a chain mouthpiece is not severe at all in fact it would be one of the lightest mouthpieces. A chain having all the brakes in the mouthpiece conform to the mouth without pressure to the pallet. Many horses tend to favor and are happiest in a chain mouth
As I said it depends on which philosophy you believe in
Les Vogt has a video on YouTube saying chain is more severe then a single broken smooth mouth piece
Dutton bits also says more ridges, more severe, all those links are ridges, the way dutton makes his 3 piece the dogbone doesn't make contact with the tongue nor the palate.
Myler bits believes a single break snaffle doesn't touch the palate, in their demo they actually have a horse head to show you it doesn't touch the palate
I actually haven't spoken to a bit maker who says a chain is not severe.
Please state where you are getting this info.
I also disagree with the statement most horses are happiest in a chain mouth piece, I haven't had one that worked better in a chain mouth piece then any other bit.
A bit is only as good as the person using the bit, just because a horse isn't gaping their mouth with a chain doesn't mean they are content with it. A chain conforms the the mouth so when they gape, they still can't get away from the pressure. |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| If the million dollar bit was too much what about a wasson teardrop?
My boy is working really well in the teardrop inside. I'm borrowing it from a friend and waiting for spring to decide between staying with that for going to a million dollar bit for when we can get outside as he's significantly stronger outside as opposed to inside. |
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Bit/hackamore gurus?!