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Member
Posts: 6
| Thank you to everyone. Deleting for personal reasons. Every bit of info given was appreciated!
Edited by runningincircles 2014-12-20 5:19 PM
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 Short Tailed Barrel Racer
Posts: 11064
 
Location: Tom, Oklahoma | So sorry about your mare. Don't beat yourself up......you were just trusting the very people that were suppose to be helping. |
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Member
Posts: 6
| thank you, and thank you for reading all of that. Its long.. I feel like I should have done something different. I just don't know what to do. I have to go work with these people everyday knowing they willfully neglected my dying animal (not knowing she was that serious but not caring to dig any deeper either).
Sorry, thank you really though. |
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 Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
 
Location: Texas | I think you have every right to be upset. Just because she is an employee's horse does not mean she should be treated any differently than all the other patients.
Personally I would start casually looking for another job somewhere else, I probably would be too emotional to work there, but I know that is just me.
I know it's different since you work there, but I've never seen a horse survive bad colic at any hospital other than Lonestar Park, not saying they haven't lost horses because they have, but I've just seen too many other vets that don't have the same sense of urgency and won't take a horse anywhere except there.
eta: You are not a vet. You did the best you could for your knowledge and you shouldn't let that beat you up.. It's just one of those really hard learning lessons :(
Edited by outrundaizy 2014-12-19 10:51 PM
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | I am questioning all the Banamine? When my stud had an impaction colic, I took him to a well known clinic, the only one open on that day 2 1/2 hrs away. They gave him something that more heavily sedates them, to the point it takes the pain away. They gave him some when I was there and 2 doses to take home. I was to wait and give it to him when I felt he really needed it. He was up down up down continueously, but his vitals were all normal. They tubed him with something to break up anything in the system as oil can by pass the obstruction and make you think you are in the clear once you see runny/oily stools. So anyways, that first night, I just couldn't watch him act so restless so I gave him a shot and he was able to lay down and rest for quite some time. The next day he still was impacted so I went to another vet, closer this time that was available. She tubed him with oil this time per the the big clinics instructions. He passed his impaction later that night. I never had to give the other shot. I can't remember what it was called but you can give it to a horse that is a pill to do farrier work etc they told me Dorphamine?? something like that.
But you did what you could. Sometimes things just fall apart. I know looking back and some similar vet situations I can lay a ton of blame at the feet of the vets. But it won't ever do me any good. Prayers for you.
Edited by wyoming barrel racer 2014-12-19 10:50 PM
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Another thing with the Banamine. I was always told if 1 shot of Banamine won't ease their symptoms, something is much more serious and they need to see a vet. I know you went to a vet, but it sounds like they mostly just oiled her and more Banamine. I have only had 3 not get better with Banamine. One was my stud, he ended up ok though, a yearling that had ulcer issues and my husband's 29yr old gelding. It was Easter, no vets around and he was too far gone when we found him. |
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Member
Posts: 6
| I have worked at this place for over a year. We do 1-3 colic surgeries a week. We get referrals from up to 3 hours away from other vets. We have lost 2 colics since I have started working here. 1 had nothing to do with the colic itself. They are amazing with colics. Just not my colic. They are ok with giving banimine every 12hrs to get a horse through an impaction. More than that and they start considering other options (surgery ect). My mare was receiving exactly that. I agree with that is NOT good. I horse is not improving when it still needs banimine. When she got terrible when I brought her the last time, they have her enough dorm, torb and xylazine to kill a small elephant just to keep her standing.
I will be looking for a new work place. I don't think I will be able to work with them after this. It just sucks. They ARE one of the best equine vets around. Just not for me.... Or their employees I guess. |
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 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | I'm very sorry for your loss.  |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
Location: Alberta Canada | I'm so sorry that you and your mare had to go through this, but I don't think I could work there anymore also.
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 Mrs. Perks Alive
Posts: 1162
Location: Madill Ok | Was the mare refluxing when they were tubing her?? My opinion, with an impaction, all that tubing probably just added more pressure on her gastric system, lots of pressure. Her blood work should have shown negative changes, elevated white count, especially after the adominal tap showed contamination. Did they keep her on an I.v. around the clock?? I think they sure could have done more for her and sooner. Treatment could have been better & they made the call too late in my opinion. Sorry for your loss. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| My first thought is
You are just as responsible for her being missed at the beginning when you initially clocked in.
I honestly would have brought her to work spoke with my manager and asked for the day off to be with horse while examined.
I am a very pushy person when it comes to my horse, so I would have been insisting on seeing blood work and being there every step. I also wouldn't have left the barn at night.
If my horse was still getting banamine the day of, she wouldn't be eating, and she would have stayed. But again this is up to the owner, I am pushy and I would have said I am not taking her home because of said reasons, I would have reviewed her chart and made sure temp was being done.
This is when I would have asked for a more in depth description of what was going on CBC, lytes, a breakdown of WBC panel, temp, etc.
When the surgical option came up when it did, I personally would have declined as I have had multiple discussions with my vet, and gathered my own information. A good surgical candidate which yours was not has a 25% survival rate.
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | Joleen - 2014-12-19 11:59 PM Was the mare refluxing when they were tubing her?? My opinion, with an impaction, all that tubing probably just added more pressure on her gastric system, lots of pressure. Her blood work should have shown negative changes, elevated white count, especially after the adominal tap showed contamination. Did they keep her on an I.v. around the clock?? I think they sure could have done more for her and sooner. Treatment could have been better & they made the call too late in my opinion. Sorry for your loss.
My opinion as well...and my thoughts to a 'T'.
I'm so sorry for your loss.
How much fluid did they give her? |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| So sorry you lost her |
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 Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | I'm sorry you lost your mare. |
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Member
Posts: 6
| Joleen - 2014-12-19 11:59 PM
Was the mare refluxing when they were tubing her?? My opinion, with an impaction, all that tubing probably just added more pressure on her gastric system, lots of pressure. Her blood work should have shown negative changes, elevated white count, especially after the adominal tap showed contamination. Did they keep her on an I.v. around the clock?? I think they sure could have done more for her and sooner. Treatment could have been better & they made the call too late in my opinion. Sorry for your loss.
No reflux- ever. The only time they got her to reflux is during surgery when they would pump water in her and massage her stomach to break up the impaction. They did not feel she was bad enough for IV fluids until the 18th. She was getting fluid via the NG tube on the 16th and through the night. Her bloodwork on the 16th was normal. They did not do more until the 18th when he bloodwork basically read your horse is full of infection and dying.
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Member
Posts: 6
| cheryl makofka - 2014-12-20 12:05 AM
My first thought is
You are just as responsible for her being missed at the beginning when you initially clocked in.
I honestly would have brought her to work spoke with my manager and asked for the day off to be with horse while examined.
I am a very pushy person when it comes to my horse, so I would have been insisting on seeing blood work and being there every step. I also wouldn't have left the barn at night.
If my horse was still getting banamine the day of, she wouldn't be eating, and she would have stayed. But again this is up to the owner, I am pushy and I would have said I am not taking her home because of said reasons, I would have reviewed her chart and made sure temp was being done.
This is when I would have asked for a more in depth description of what was going on CBC, lytes, a breakdown of WBC panel, temp, etc.
When the surgical option came up when it did, I personally would have declined as I have had multiple discussions with my vet, and gathered my own information. A good surgical candidate which yours was not has a 25% survival rate.
Why would I ask for the day off? The mare was at work with me and it's m. Job to care for the sick/injured. I paid VERY close attention to her all day. My job is to care for them and report to the vets. That's what I did. I couldn't imagine what care she would have gotten if I wasn't there- working.
I saw bloodwork. Normal on the 16th. Dead on the 18th. If you take a horse to the vet and it stays overnight with 2 gets that have to stay there all night for other reasons, your not going to trust them to care for your animal over the course of 12 hours? If that's the case you need to find a better vet. Obviously i do to.
I'm the one that wrote 90% of what was on her chart. I did all of her vitals checks. Every time she was down plus 4 times a day. The mare never had a fever. Yes. She had a lot of banimine but I have seen minor infections break banimine. This mare was FULL of infection. By the time she was dying and they did another round of bloodwork that proved that, they were actually doing their jobs but it was too late.
I don't know where you are getting your surgery numbers from but for our clinic, that is very incorrect. I have seen 2 of probably 50 surgeries not make it. 1 had nothing to do with the surgery. As I said, they are an amazing vet clinic and get referred emergency colics from all over. They dropped the ball huge and did not care about my mare. |
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Member
Posts: 6
| uno-dos-tres! - 2014-12-20 12:12 AM
Joleen - 2014-12-19 11:59 PM Was the mare refluxing when they were tubing her?? My opinion, with an impaction, all that tubing probably just added more pressure on her gastric system, lots of pressure. Her blood work should have shown negative changes, elevated white count, especially after the adominal tap showed contamination. Did they keep her on an I.v. around the clock?? I think they sure could have done more for her and sooner. Treatment could have been better & they made the call too late in my opinion. Sorry for your loss.
My opinion as well...and my thoughts to a 'T'.
I'm so sorry for your loss.
How much fluid did they give her?
They NG tubed her with a total of 6 gallons including electrolytes day of 16th. Tubed her 3-4 times over night. On the 18th she only made it through 1) 5L bag |
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | I am sorry to say but you should have acted just like every other CLIENT of this vet clinic and DEMANDED better care. Additionally, your horse was down on the 15th ………you should taken her in at that time. I have always been told by several vets that if a horse doesn't improve significantly within four hours of the first dose of banamine.....get them in to the clinic.
Now do I think that they were lax in their treatment and neglectful....YES....I would be looking for another job and vet. I am sorry for your loss!
Edited by NJJ 2014-12-20 9:35 AM
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. |
is your horse insured
after so many hours and her not responding I as a horse Owner would have demanded or moved her elsewhere. IV fluids yes.. but Not continueous fluids NG.. her abdomen can only hold so much pressure then it ruptures.. if you work at a surgerical vet you should know this and should have moved her. imho its everyones lack of thinking..
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-12-20 9:44 AM
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 Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | I'm not a vet or have I dealt with many serious colics so I can't really coment on what treatment was or wasn't given. I know one horse who has been through colic surgery and he was in surgery immidiately, litterally within hours of the first dose of banamine hot helping. When you wait for a couple days after the first sign of colic I imagine the chances of survival are going down rapidly.
What I would have done different than you is I'd have come into the clinic the day your brought her in as a client, not employee. I would have expected & if necessary flat demanded that my horse be treated exactly like any other colic that was brougth through the door. Not just checked in on occasionally between other client horses. By you coming in & still working that day the vets probably didn't take you very serious or maybe even thought you where hoping for free treatment as an employee (just guessing here as I don't know you or them). While I think you could have been a lot more demanding in expecting prompt & proper treatment for your horse the vets also should have taken her care more serious from the moment you brought her in. After all, you work with them & it sounds like you deal with a lot of colics.....you brought her in knowing that something was really wrong & they should have taken that serious. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | I'm very sorry for your loss.
As far as sueing. I'm old and I've never known someone that sued a vet win.
I have a vet that is known for colic surgeries and he told me that the biggest reason horse's don't make it with colic cases, is vets and horse owners wait too long to do the surgery. I had a horse that was colicing and I had him at the vets within an hour. He felt he was doing everything he could and I felt he was just masking the pain. I had him at a colic surgery facility within in six hours and he was on the table at hour 7. His surgery was successful but he was put down months later because he wouldn't heal. When they opened him up they found his liver was bad and when they biopsied it, it came back he had a chronic liver disease.
Horses are way too fragile for as big as they are.
If all of your horses had a reaction to the Moxidectin it sounds like they could have been full of worms. Did they say the impaction was caused from a parasite overload?
Prayers that the Good Lord mends your broken heart. I also would be looking for another job as I'm sure it's hard to go and work like nothing happened.
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 Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | Nevertooold - 2014-12-20 10:16 AM I'm very sorry for your loss.
As far as sueing. I'm old and I've never known someone that sued a vet win.
I have a vet that is known for colic surgeries and he told me that the biggest reason horse's don't make it with colic cases, is vets and horse owners wait too long to do the surgery. I had a horse that was colicing and I had him at the vets within an hour. He felt he was doing everything he could and I felt he was just masking the pain. I had him at a colic surgery facility within in six hours and he was on the table at hour 7. His surgery was successful but he was put down months later because he wouldn't heal. When they opened him up they found his liver was bad and when they biopsied it, it came back he had a chronic liver disease.
Horses are way too fragile for as big as they are.
If all of your horses had a reaction to the Moxidectin it sounds like they could have been full of worms. Did they say the impaction was caused from a parasite overload?
Prayers that the Good Lord mends your broken heart. I also would be looking for another job as I'm sure it's hard to go and work like nothing happened.
I was thinking this or an overdose. It is very easy to overdose. I tape every horse before I used it. If I had a scale I would weight them. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| runningincircles - 2014-12-20 8:27 AM
cheryl makofka - 2014-12-20 12:05 AM
My first thought is
You are just as responsible for her being missed at the beginning when you initially clocked in.
I honestly would have brought her to work spoke with my manager and asked for the day off to be with horse while examined.
I am a very pushy person when it comes to my horse, so I would have been insisting on seeing blood work and being there every step. I also wouldn't have left the barn at night.
If my horse was still getting banamine the day of, she wouldn't be eating, and she would have stayed. But again this is up to the owner, I am pushy and I would have said I am not taking her home because of said reasons, I would have reviewed her chart and made sure temp was being done.
This is when I would have asked for a more in depth description of what was going on CBC, lytes, a breakdown of WBC panel, temp, etc.
When the surgical option came up when it did, I personally would have declined as I have had multiple discussions with my vet, and gathered my own information. A good surgical candidate which yours was not has a 25% survival rate.
Why would I ask for the day off? The mare was at work with me and it's m. Job to care for the sick/injured. I paid VERY close attention to her all day. My job is to care for them and report to the vets. That's what I did. I couldn't imagine what care she would have gotten if I wasn't there- working.
I saw bloodwork. Normal on the 16th. Dead on the 18th. If you take a horse to the vet and it stays overnight with 2 gets that have to stay there all night for other reasons, your not going to trust them to care for your animal over the course of 12 hours? If that's the case you need to find a better vet. Obviously i do to.
I'm the one that wrote 90% of what was on her chart. I did all of her vitals checks. Every time she was down plus 4 times a day. The mare never had a fever. Yes. She had a lot of banimine but I have seen minor infections break banimine. This mare was FULL of infection. By the time she was dying and they did another round of bloodwork that proved that, they were actually doing their jobs but it was too late.
I don't know where you are getting your surgery numbers from but for our clinic, that is very incorrect. I have seen 2 of probably 50 surgeries not make it. 1 had nothing to do with the surgery. As I said, they are an amazing vet clinic and get referred emergency colics from all over. They dropped the ball huge and did not care about my mare.
Now you have given more info, but that still wouldn't change my opinion.
The other reason I wouldn't work thst day is I would not be giving all the other horses my full attention when I know mine is not in good shape. By continuing to work it poses an ethical dilemma.
Colic surgery the stats are from my vet who is an equine surgeon. The stats include the horses who survived surgery that go home and die within the first week due to complications of the surgery.
Blood work may look normal but comparing to the previous blood work can tell a different story, my vet runs a CBC every 4 hrs. A drop in hgb even though still normal can tell you different things depending on the horse history ie horse was dehydrated or horse has internal bleeding. A shift in WBC production can also give information such as if it is inflammation, bacterial or viral or if the infection is acute or chronic.
As for me staying the night, I trust my vet entirely but I am staying for me and my horse. I can do a lot of praying at her side. Again this is my preference.
I don't understand what you are saying when you say YOU HAVE SEEN MINOR INFECTIONS BREAK BANAMINE
In your situation you are the only one who knows how the clinic works. You probably have the right to be mad.
You do need to ask yourself by being mad what is it going to accomplish, yes I would discuss with the manager my concerns in a civilized manner. I would use the situation as a learning tool, and ask what should have been done, but I would leave it there.
If you decide to sue, you will be forced to dig this up many times. And if this is the best clinic, then when you do need their expertise, they will refuse. Also vets do talk if you sue one, others may decide they don't want to work for you for that reason.
You need to grieve the loss of your horse and yes it sucks, I know myself I have lost 3 over the years one to colic 2 weeks after we cleared the impaction, one due to toxic weed, and one unknown (vet lost liscence due to this horse due to falsifying federal documents I never lodged a complaint or told anyone found out from a different vet said vet lost his liscence). This had been over a span of 20 years and I still think about each horse weekly and try to figure out what I could have done to have the outcome different. I don't blame any of the vets.
I am sorry for your loss
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Cold hands and Warm Heart
Location: oklahoma | Sorry for your loss.
Btw, she said in the op that her intent isn't to sue. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | First off I'm sorry for your loss!!!!
If your horses all reacted to the moxidectin I'd be concerned about WHY they all went down. Something is wrong there whether it's an overload of parasites or if the dosing was incorrect, or if the batch was bad. One horse having an issue I could see but all five having an issue at the same time is rare so I'd be investigating the reasons. Did you do a fecal count before de-worming?
As for the vet, they always say hindsight is 20/20. Personally if I felt that my horse wasn't getting the attention it deserved I'd be speaking to the vet's, or the vet's supervisor, and if that didn't satisfy me I'd be putting her in a trailer and taking her elsewhere.
There isn't much you can do now. Suing won't get you anywhere especially since it's not neglect. They gave her fluids, banamine, palpated her, and she was examined so she was looked at and her pain was managed. You're just not happy with how they treated her and that's certainly your right to feel that way.
You need to actively start searching for another job. You are understandably angry for your loss and don't trust them so you need to find another place of employment before that festers into resentment. Until then you need to be professional and do your job to the best of your abilities.
This is a crappy situation and I'm sorry you lost your horse. I hope you are able to find a new job soon and try to start putting this behind you. |
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 The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | Nevertooold - 2014-12-20 9:16 AM I'm very sorry for your loss.
As far as sueing. I'm old and I've never known someone that sued a vet win.
I have a vet that is known for colic surgeries and he told me that the biggest reason horse's don't make it with colic cases, is vets and horse owners wait too long to do the surgery. I had a horse that was colicing and I had him at the vets within an hour. He felt he was doing everything he could and I felt he was just masking the pain. I had him at a colic surgery facility within in six hours and he was on the table at hour 7. His surgery was successful but he was put down months later because he wouldn't heal. When they opened him up they found his liver was bad and when they biopsied it, it came back he had a chronic liver disease.
Horses are way too fragile for as big as they are.
If all of your horses had a reaction to the Moxidectin it sounds like they could have been full of worms. Did they say the impaction was caused from a parasite overload?
Prayers that the Good Lord mends your broken heart. I also would be looking for another job as I'm sure it's hard to go and work like nothing happened.
I agree with the whole post but especially what I highlighted. |
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Sorry for your loss...  |
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 Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | I am so sorry for your loss. 
As a side note, I worked as an assistant at a large mixed-animal practice for years. All of our pets received excellent care, especially in ermergency situations, and we did not clock out to care for them (if it was during our work hours.) Kind of a perk of the job...
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Thank you