|
|
Expert
Posts: 2685
   
| Horse: 10yo appendix mare. Big, 16hh, wide. Typical TB high metabolism.
Got the horse a month and a half ago. She looked terrible. Wormed her the week she got here with a broad spectrum and fed her cheap sweet feed (3qts twice a day) with Cocosoya oil added. Mare gained a bunch of weight in a short amount of time. Ran out of cheep sweet feed and bought a mid grade purina feed. Ran out of Cocosoya (a solid mass collected at the bottom of the gallon so I did not buy another). Bought a different flax oil. Fed it. I took her blanket off the other day to find she is going down hill. What the heck? I know her teeth are bad and I will be fixing them soon. She eats with one of those muzzle looking feed bags so she gets every bit of what I feed her. I will say this- she should be a 1200-1300lb animal. I am feeding her 3quarts of the purina feed twice a day. That is what is recommended for a 1000lb animal but more than 3quarts twice a day seems like a TON of feed. Dilemma is a bought a bunch of this feed so I have to feed it out. Question is what do I do to help her? Do I up it to the recommended amount for a horse her size? (5 quarts 2X day) or do I add a fat/protein supplement (like horseshine or MaxEGlo rice bran and alfalfa pellets) to her diet, or do I go get a flax lick ($40 for a 5 gallon lick (30lbs-ish) and put it in her stall and she can have it at night supplementing her but not adding to her volume of grain.
She gets free choice Bermuda at the moment. She is a broodmare. I will add alfalfa hay to her diet mid year but I don't want to do that now and not have that avenue to go down later when I need to put more "umph" in her diet for baby reasons.
Thanks in advance.
ETA: I found this: https://www.smartpakequine.com/cocosoya-ultra-sp--3525pb What do you think? I like the cocosoya and I especially like the added probios in this. Not too pricey.
ETA: OR this: https://www.smartpakequine.com/smartgain-4505pb
There is only a $2/ month difference in them.... Not really worth fussing about. it $0.08/ day difference. Which would you be more apt to try first? I feel a supplement like this might be good to have for later if my broodies do need extra umph, I have it and if I try it now, I know if it works or not and if I need to keep looking or not.
I'll try to post pictures of her.
Edited by RoaniePonie11 2014-12-21 1:09 PM
|
|
| |
|
 Peecans
| Id personaly go back to what was working, cheep or not it was clearly the right choice for her if she was ganing and doing well.
How far along is she? Growing a baby is tuff work!
As for a sumplment to give that extra push, i am thrilled with life force horse. Its great, helps the horse absorbe the max amount of nutrient possible.
Which Seeking of, make sure her guts are healthy and parasite free. If she had a heavy load, and you worse her once id just check you got a stesfull kill and didn't leave a bunch of eggs behind that are now causing issues.
Healthy guts make healthy horses! It all starts there :-D |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2685
| della - 2014-12-21 12:34 PM
Id personaly go back to what was working, cheep or not it was clearly the right choice for her if she was ganing and doing well.
How far along is she? Growing a baby is tuff work!
As for a sumplment to give that extra push, i am thrilled with life force horse. Its great, helps the horse absorbe the max amount of nutrient possible.
Which Seeking of, make sure her guts are healthy and parasite free. If she had a heavy load, and you worse her once id just check you got a stesfull kill and didn't leave a bunch of eggs behind that are now causing issues.
Healthy guts make healthy horses! It all starts there :-D
thank you! Yeah I had thought about just going back to what was working. Silly horse..... She is open this year. She will be bred in 2015. That's partly why I'm worried now because she is currently requiring the least amount of calories she ever will lol |
|
| |
|
 Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
Location: Texas | Weight builder, that stuff is a miracle |
|
| |
|
  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | what are you feeding her ? what is she getting in Lbs and calories.? some feeds are light and 3 qts isnt but 3 lbs so 6 lbs a day for a horse to gain or maintain to some horses isnt enough.. imho..
also you can add soaked alfalfa pellets or cubes and beet pulp to help.
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-12-21 12:56 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2685
| outrundaizy - 2014-12-21 12:41 PM
Weight builder, that stuff is a miracle
farnam? I know Dumor makes some too called "weight builder" |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2685
| Bibliafarm - 2014-12-21 12:53 PM
what are you feeding her
per day:
5lbs Dumor Equistages that's 3 quarts twice a day. (Bag says to feed a 1200lb horse 6.5-8lbs/day. That is 4-5 quarts twice a day.)
2oz Flax Oil
free choice Bermuda 24/7 |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2685
| Bibliafarm - 2014-12-21 12:53 PM
what are you feeding her ? what is she getting in Lbs and calories.? some feeds are light and 3 qts isnt but 3 lbs so 6 lbs a day for a horse to gain or maintain to some horses isnt enough.. imho..
also you can add soaked alfalfa pellets or cubes and beet pulp to help.
3qts is 2.5lbs of the Dumor feed she is on. Just a lot of volume scares me after losing the other mare to colic. I thought about adding alfalfa pellets and/or beet pulp but they are not high in fat so add 2 cups alfalfa pellets along with the oil? I have no problem adding protein to her. I just would like to keep the added fat to her diet though I'm not sure changing oils was a good idea.... I tried giving her coconut oil- that was a no go. Cant get her to eat it.
ETA: https://www.smartpakequine.com/cocosoya-ultra-sp--3525pb Whatcha think?
Edited by RoaniePonie11 2014-12-21 1:04 PM
|
|
| |
|
 Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
| First of all, the blanket needs to be taken off at least every other day. Second, I have never seen feed recommendations especially on Purina sacks in quarts. My feed sacks say pounds. I keep it simple. My mare is an older mare and is about 16-3. She WAS an appendix mare for what that is worth.
I feed about
6 lbs in the morning and 6 lbs at night (14% protein) ABOUT 2 scoops is 6 lbs
about 2 Tbs salt in the feed once a day.
loose minerals out at all times
18 pounds of high quality coastal hay in 2 feedings
If it is cold enough to blanket a horse it is certainly necessary to feed hay. ADM GRO STRONG Minerals are my preference but I can't get them around here. I use another feed company horse minerals.
I just don't think you are feeding enough. Good prenatal nutrition is essential. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2685
| streakysox - 2014-12-21 1:08 PM
First of all, the blanket needs to be taken off at least every other day. Second, I have never seen feed recommendations especially on Purina sacks in quarts. My feed sacks say pounds. I keep it simple. My mare is an older mare and is about 16-3. She WAS an appendix mare for what that is worth.
I feed about
6 lbs in the morning and 6 lbs at night (14% protein) ABOUT 2 scoops is 6 lbs
about 2 Tbs salt in the feed once a day.
loose minerals out at all times
18 pounds of high quality coastal hay in 2 feedings
If it is cold enough to blanket a horse it is certainly necessary to feed hay. ADM GRO STRONG Minerals are my preference but I can't get them around here. I use another feed company horse minerals.
I just don't think you are feeding enough. Good prenatal nutrition is essential.
The feed is not on the bag by quarts its on by pounds. She is getting 5lbs per day (recommended for a 1000lb horse) which equals 6 quarts. Feeding more than 3 quarts per feeding scares me volume wise. Its not the weight that bothers me, its the volume.
I left their blankets on for 3-4 days without taking them off. I just adjusted them day and night. Made sure no one was cut up. Its not that she lost that weight in 4 days, just that when I took it off I was like wow you are starting to lose what you put on.
12lbs a day of feed is a lot of feed... I don't think I could be ok with that **if there was another option. That's why I'm looking into other options. I do not feel that 18lbs of hay per day is enough hay. I am a forage first feeder lol. I am not saying you are wrong at all. I am saying I am different. I agree with you that I don't feel I am feeding enough either. I want to increase her diet's quality more than I do quantity.
thank you thank you thank you for your input! :) |
|
| |
|
 Veteran
Posts: 133
Location: texas | Feed her rice bran. 1 cup at morning and i cup at night. everyday for a while. the stuff is pretty cheap and worked on my mare and gelding. Rice bran is basicly FAT. its really good for them!! and maybe feed some flax seed as well. senior horse feed has ALOT more fat in it than regular horse feed. I started giving my mare purina edge senior and it made a world of a difference...and guess what?? its high in fat and protein so you dont have to feed as much!! |
|
| |
|
 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| 2 lbs stabilized rice bran, 2-4 lbs Ultium or even a 4 lbs dry three way grain (corn, oats, barley) since she's a broodmare. 16-18 lbs alfalfa cubes or pellets. Free choice coastal. |
|
| |
|
Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| RoaniePonie11 - 2014-12-21 1:14 PM
streakysox - 2014-12-21 1:08 PM
First of all, the blanket needs to be taken off at least every other day. Second, I have never seen feed recommendations especially on Purina sacks in quarts. My feed sacks say pounds. I keep it simple. My mare is an older mare and is about 16-3. She WAS an appendix mare for what that is worth.
I feed about
6 lbs in the morning and 6 lbs at night (14% protein) ABOUT 2 scoops is 6 lbs
about 2 Tbs salt in the feed once a day.
loose minerals out at all times
18 pounds of high quality coastal hay in 2 feedings
If it is cold enough to blanket a horse it is certainly necessary to feed hay. ADM GRO STRONG Minerals are my preference but I can't get them around here. I use another feed company horse minerals.
I just don't think you are feeding enough. Good prenatal nutrition is essential.
The feed is not on the bag by quarts its on by pounds. She is getting 5lbs per day (recommended for a 1000lb horse ) which equals 6 quarts. Feeding more than 3 quarts per feeding scares me volume wise. Its not the weight that bothers me, its the volume.
I left their blankets on for 3-4 days without taking them off. I just adjusted them day and night. Made sure no one was cut up. Its not that she lost that weight in 4 days, just that when I took it off I was like wow you are starting to lose what you put on.
12lbs a day of feed is a lot of feed... I don't think I could be ok with that **if there was another option. That's why I'm looking into other options. I do not feel that 18lbs of hay per day is enough hay. I am a forage first feeder lol. I am not saying you are wrong at all. I am saying I am different. I agree with you that I don't feel I am feeding enough either. I want to increase her diet's quality more than I do quantity.
thank you thank you thank you for your input! : )
The poster said 18 lbs twice a day, not once. That's just under 40 lbs a day. This is about what a horse will eat free choice when it has a lot of weight to gain and it's cold.
I also think that you're overthinking weight gain. You need to feed more quality calories. Less filler grain, alfalfa, and higher quality foodstuffs (rice bran, better quality grain, etc) is going to cost you less in the long run than pouring the cheap crap to her.
Edited by classicpotatochip 2014-12-21 2:00 PM
|
|
| |
|
Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| This time of year, i feed some hay pellets and beet. I wet in am for pm feeding. And feed small amount. If that is not enough i feed like weight builder or cool caleries to bump the amount of fat. And about 12-18 pounds of hay. Also, since she is a broodmare find and inexpensive suppliemt for ulcers. Get her teeth done. It will save you money. When i feed this way all 4 horses drink really well and there teeth need less maintaince. If i where close to a alfafa spource imwould not feed grain al all.
Edited by daisycake123 2014-12-21 2:07 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2685
| daisycake123 - 2014-12-21 2:05 PM
This time of year, i feed some hay pellets and beet. I wet in am for pm feeding. And feed small amount. If that is not enough i feed like weight builder or cool caleries to bump the amount of fat. And about 12-18 pounds of hay. Also, since she is a broodmare find and inexpensive suppliemt for ulcers. Get her teeth done. It will save you money. When i feed this way all 4 horses drink really well and there teeth need less maintaince. If i where close to a alfafa spource imwould not feed grain al all.
Thank you. I'm glad you mentioned Ulcers. I thought about (I know its not cheap but I have had the "preventatives don't fix whats already there" experience) giving her at least a week of ulcer meds and then a cheap preventative like aloe or something of the sort. I will have her teeth done in Feb. I know she needs it.
thanks again :)
Edited by RoaniePonie11 2014-12-21 2:20 PM
|
|
| |
|
Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
Location: Texas | RoaniePonie11 - 2014-12-21 2:19 PM daisycake123 - 2014-12-21 2:05 PM This time of year, i feed some hay pellets and beet. I wet in am for pm feeding. And feed small amount. If that is not enough i feed like weight builder or cool caleries to bump the amount of fat. And about 12-18 pounds of hay. Also, since she is a broodmare find and inexpensive suppliemt for ulcers. Get her teeth done. It will save you money. When i feed this way all 4 horses drink really well and there teeth need less maintaince. If i where close to a alfafa spource imwould not feed grain al all. Thank you. I'm glad you mentioned Ulcers. I thought about (I know its not cheap but I have had the "preventatives don't fix whats already there" experience ) giving her at least a week of ulcer meds and then a cheap preventative like aloe or something of the sort. I will have her teeth done in Feb. I know she needs it. thanks again : )
Weight builder is it's own brand I think, you get it at TSC. Dumor makes one called weight booster which is pretty much the same thing, |
|
| |
|
 Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | If you don't want to feed as much volume, switch to a different feed. There are several that make ration balancers or more concentrated feeds. ADM is one.
You are not feeding the recommended amount of nutrients to your horse, per the company's nutritional analysis.
Also, about the clumping Cocosoya, it's worse in the winter, but give it a good shake each time you use it and it will be a lot better. They'll eat the clumpy stuff, too!
And, I LOVE Formula 707 Daily Essentials. It's not a weight builder, but it sure adds shine and bloom!
|
|
| |
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| If the horse needs her teeth done, I would quit sinking money into feed and fix the teeth.
A horse with bad teeth cannot chew their feed properly therefore are not getting the maximum nutrients from the feed. Poor teeth can also be a cause of colic as well.
I don't believe in lick blocks as horse tongues are not designed to lick, it is not coarse like a cow.
The initial oil you used the cocosoy it needs to be mixed/shaken up daily before feeding as it does separate this is why you had the solid at the bottom, it had nothing to do with the quality of the product, but how the product was handled.
If the first oil was working, I would go back to that program and shake the container before feeds.
Flax oil is a tough oil to stabilize it has to be cold pressed, and I believe there is a storage protocol too. I don't feed flax oil because there are too many nutrients lost in the process. I will either grind up immediately before giving or feed whole. Flax seed is actually cheap to buy I pay 30$ for 50 lbs and I give 1/2-1 cup daily. This would be my recommendation.
If she is just a broodmare, canola oil works well and is cheap since she is not working I wouldn't be worried about the omega ratio. The canola oil will also help prevent impaction colic. |
|
| |
|
Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | I always made sure a mare had her teeth done before getting bred. |
|
| |
|
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | you arent feeding her enough calories or lbs.. up it to 8 lbs daily then ..shes getting 5 lbs a day and it isnt working.. |
|
| |
|
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | RoaniePonie11 - 2014-12-21 2:00 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-12-21 12:53 PM what are you feeding her ? what is she getting in Lbs and calories.? some feeds are light and 3 qts isnt but 3 lbs so 6 lbs a day for a horse to gain or maintain to some horses isnt enough.. imho..
also you can add soaked alfalfa pellets or cubes and beet pulp to help. 3qts is 2.5lbs of the Dumor feed she is on. Just a lot of volume scares me after losing the other mare to colic. I thought about adding alfalfa pellets and/or beet pulp but they are not high in fat so add 2 cups alfalfa pellets along with the oil? I have no problem adding protein to her. I just would like to keep the added fat to her diet though I'm not sure changing oils was a good idea.... I tried giving her coconut oil- that was a no go. Cant get her to eat it. ETA: https://www.smartpakequine.com/cocosoya-ultra-sp--3525pb Whatcha think?
oh it is the lowest end of purina..get a low Protein high fat better quality grain.
and it says feed 6 lbs or more and you are feeding 5.. also she doesnt need 14 percent protein.. she needs fat
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-12-21 6:41 PM
|
|
| |
|
 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | Try Rnew Gold. Coconut meal, flax and rice bran. It's a concentraed feed with at least 15% fat content. You feed 1/2 to 1.5 lbs a day. |
|
| |
|
 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | cheryl makofka - 2014-12-21 6:00 PM If the horse needs her teeth done, I would quit sinking money into feed and fix the teeth. A horse with bad teeth cannot chew their feed properly therefore are not getting the maximum nutrients from the feed.
^^^^THIS.....and you admittedly are NOT feeding the recommended amount of feed. Most of these companies have run tests, etc to "balance" their feed for the daily input. If you think it is too much "volume", feed it over three feedings instead of two. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2685
| NJJ - 2014-12-21 7:32 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-12-21 6:00 PM If the horse needs her teeth done, I would quit sinking money into feed and fix the teeth. A horse with bad teeth cannot chew their feed properly therefore are not getting the maximum nutrients from the feed.
^^^^THIS.....and you admittedly are NOT feeding the recommended amount of feed. Most of these companies have run tests, etc to "balance" their feed for the daily input. If you think it is too much "volume", feed it over three feedings instead of two.
I feel like a blonde. This never even crossed my mind.... That is a wonderful idea lol.
I do plan on switching all of my horses to Renew. Its just more cost effective when you get down to it. BUT I have to feed what I have until I run out lol I went ahead and bumped her grain up tonight and gave her half of the daily recommended amount for a horse her size. It seemed like a ton of grain but she ate it all to my surprise.
Thanks everyone!
I will be adjusting my feed regimen for sure AND getting her teeth taken care of. |
|
| |
|
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | a horse can handle up to 5 lbs per "ONE" feeding..and if you add water if helps get water to gut |
|
| |
|
Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | RoaniePonie11 - 2014-12-21 7:39 PM NJJ - 2014-12-21 7:32 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-12-21 6:00 PM If the horse needs her teeth done, I would quit sinking money into feed and fix the teeth. A horse with bad teeth cannot chew their feed properly therefore are not getting the maximum nutrients from the feed. ^^^^THIS.....and you admittedly are NOT feeding the recommended amount of feed. Most of these companies have run tests, etc to "balance" their feed for the daily input. If you think it is too much "volume", feed it over three feedings instead of two. I feel like a blonde. This never even crossed my mind.... That is a wonderful idea lol. I do plan on switching all of my horses to Renew. Its just more cost effective when you get down to it. BUT I have to feed what I have until I run out lol I went ahead and bumped her grain up tonight and gave her half of the daily recommended amount for a horse her size. It seemed like a ton of grain but she ate it all to my surprise. Thanks everyone! I will be adjusting my feed regimen for sure AND getting her teeth taken care of.
Another hint is to actually weigh your feed...... a lot of people assume that every company's feed weighs the same. If you are using a scoop, it may hold more or less in pounds depending on the company. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | As said above, the best money you can spend in this horses diet is to fix her teeth. This is preventing proper function of her digestive system. Nothing works if the teeth are not right. As to concentrates, the idea that most feed companies run extensive testing to establish feed rates is not accurate. They have a warehouse full of grain, and the more they can get you to put in your horse, the more money they make. If you insist on feeding more than three pounds of any concentrate feed, you need to do it in more than two feedings. Fix the teeth, and feed less in more feedings, and eliminate refined oils, and your mare will bloom. |
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 999
Location: Sunny So Cal | Definitely teeth first and then some THE Muscle Mass. Will help her put on weight with all the amino acids, vitmains, electrolytes, herbs and antioxidants she will need to be healthy and happy. And since it is 20% off this month it is a great time to try.  |
|
| |
|
 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I agree with what the others are saying, get those teeth fixed on your mare and then you should start seeing a different in her looks once she can eat her feed and hay right. But make sure she is getting the right amount of feed and hay. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 477
Location: Lost in the swamps | teeth, and rule out ulcers! i have on of my hard keeper arabian we just purchased about 2 months ago on strategy(which is what she was already on but she was stalled 24/7:( going to switch her eventually but now im suspecting she had ulcers due to stalling, travel, training and a new envoirment) we slowly added alfalfa, good quality grass hay, flax seed oil, probiotics, aloe juice and l lysine for topline and more inportantly 24/7 Turn Out! and she is flurishing!she is putting on weight, and muscle. its amazing what good ole grass/ forage will do if you have it.
my personal horses get 24/7 turnout, grass hay, pellets, flax oil, probiotics, and lysine. and they have bloomed! |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2685
| imturnin3 - 2014-12-24 8:14 AM
teeth, and rule out ulcers! i have on of my hard keeper arabian we just purchased about 2 months ago on strategy(which is what she was already on but she was stalled 24/7:( going to switch her eventually but now im suspecting she had ulcers due to stalling, travel, training and a new envoirment) we slowly added alfalfa, good quality grass hay, flax seed oil, probiotics, aloe juice and l lysine for topline and more inportantly 24/7 Turn Out! and she is flurishing!she is putting on weight, and muscle. its amazing what good ole grass/ forage will do if you have it.
my personal horses get 24/7 turnout, grass hay, pellets, flax oil, probiotics, and lysine. and they have bloomed!
Thank you. Yeah I put her on ulcer stuff 2 days ago, have had her on lysine for a month (big difference. Helped a lot) and am using up the rest of my oil and putting her on the powdered coco soya with probios in it. I also upped her grain to 8lbs a day. She gets free choice Bermuda. Teeth are floated as of this am and she is hanging out eating prairie grass hay at work with me. |
|
| |
Help with adding "umph" to a horses diet please