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Expert
Posts: 2685
   
| Where does a big named horse have to be on a horses pedigree to be able to say it is "whatever" bred? |
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Blessed 
Location: Here | Son or daughter Direct .Otherwise you need to specify grandson or granddaughter
Edited by SG. 2014-12-28 3:21 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| SG. - 2014-12-28 3:20 PM
Son or daughter Direct .Otherwise you need to specify grandson or granddaughter
So in your OP what does it take to be "double bred" something
ETA like "double bred DTF"
Edited by RoaniePonie11 2014-12-28 3:23 PM
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Blessed
Location: Here | RoaniePonie11 - 2014-12-28 3:22 PM SG. - 2014-12-28 3:20 PM Son or daughter Direct .Otherwise you need to specify grandson or granddaughter So in your OP what does it take to be "double bred" something ETA like "double bred DTF"
That is a whole other question from the original question.
I am not one to ask on line breeding if it is close up as I am not a fan |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| SG. - 2014-12-28 3:27 PM
RoaniePonie11 - 2014-12-28 3:22 PM SG. - 2014-12-28 3:20 PM Son or daughter Direct .Otherwise you need to specify grandson or granddaughter So in your OP what does it take to be "double bred" something ETA like "double bred DTF" I am not one to ask on line breeding if it is close up as I am not a fan
I gotcha :) just curious |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | I think "such and such" BRED almost implies grandget. if you had a son or daughter of said horse you would say BY such and such or OUT OF such and such. Otherwise not sure how you could say double bred... i am not an expert but this makes sense to me |
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| I have a mare with BA75 on her papers twice in the 3rd generation, once on top and once on bottom. I would consider her double-bred.
As far as saying it is bred a certain way I think is more of a preference. If I have direct offspring of a big name stallion I would just go ahead and say I have a son or daughter of them. If they are grandget I might say they are bred that way, but if it gets out to the 3rd generation it's getting a little too far out there and I'd want to have something big name closer up. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
| Here's one to ponder. I was talking to a guy about his stallion and asked how he was bred. He told me Oklahoma Star. Oklahoma Star was born in 1917 and died about 1943. He was given an NFQHA number but I seriously doubt that he was anywhere close on that horse's papers. |
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 Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | The problem is that so many people will say (JUST AN EXAMPLE) they "have a DTF". But when you look at the pedigree if it's an ad, it might not even be on the papers. I saw one listed for sale as "a DTF" and it was 3rd generation. That's frustrating if you are shopping!
If I say I have a Tres Seis, a DTF, a FWF, or a FG, they are direct progeny.
If I have a grandget of anything like that I will say they are grandget.
If it's not even on the papers, I will say they "go back to" whatever it is that they might go back to. For example my great barrel mare Lena May wasn't anytihng anyone would recognize so I'd tell people she went back to Leaving Memories & Bugs Alive in 75 because that's all that was recognizable on her pedigree.
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Blessed
Location: Here | rockinas - 2014-12-28 4:10 PM The problem is that so many people will say (JUST AN EXAMPLE) they "have a DTF". But when you look at the pedigree if it's an ad, it might not even be on the papers. I saw one listed for sale as "a DTF" and it was 3rd generation. That's frustrating if you are shopping!
If I say I have a Tres Seis, a DTF, a FWF, or a FG, they are direct progeny.
If I have a grandget of anything like that I will say they are grandget.
If it's not even on the papers, I will say they "go back to" whatever it is that they might go back to. For example my great barrel mare Lena May wasn't anytihng anyone would recognize so I'd tell people she went back to Leaving Memories & Bugs Alive in 75 because that's all that was recognizable on her pedigree.
I agree. It is best to just be specific these days |
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  Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | If I am looking at a horse, I don't want it to be any further back than "grand"....... |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| NJJ - 2014-12-28 6:01 PM
If I am looking at a horse, I don't want it to be any further back than "grand".......
I have a question for you :) What about if the horse you are looking at is a great-grandget BUT out of one of the top sons/daughters of that horse? Like great-grandget of BA75 but a grandget of one of the top sons/daughters of him. Would that influence you either way or still a no-no?
Sorry I'm not meaning to pry at anyone or make anyone angry, I'm just exploring horse-people's thought process on pedigrees :)
For example (if you like OTMR) looking at a horse that is a OTMR great-grandget but its grandsire and sire are both major producers and performers. |
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 Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | If its not right on the papers then im not interested in hearing it. That doesnt mean i wont look at horses that dont have the top bloodlines on papers, it just means that a horse should not be referred to in a sale add by generations not on the papers |
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Blessed
Location: Here | RoaniePonie11 - 2014-12-28 6:20 PM NJJ - 2014-12-28 6:01 PM If I am looking at a horse, I don't want it to be any further back than "grand"....... I have a question for you : ) What about if the horse you are looking at is a great-grandget BUT out of one of the top sons/daughters of that horse? Like great-grandget of BA75 but a grandget of one of the top sons/daughters of him. Would that influence you either way or still a no-no? Sorry I'm not meaning to pry at anyone or make anyone angry, I'm just exploring horse-people's thought process on pedigrees : ) For example (if you like OTMR ) looking at a horse that is a OTMR great-grandget but its grandsire and sire are both major producers and performers.
Personally the Great Grandget is too diluted...  |
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Member
Posts: 42
Location: SE Oklahoma | I say it must be ON the papers to count. If I see one more "goes back to King/Poco Bueno/Hancock" I may scream. 12 gen back doesn't count! |
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | SG. - 2014-12-28 6:25 PM RoaniePonie11 - 2014-12-28 6:20 PM NJJ - 2014-12-28 6:01 PM If I am looking at a horse, I don't want it to be any further back than "grand"....... I have a question for you : ) What about if the horse you are looking at is a great-grandget BUT out of one of the top sons/daughters of that horse? Like great-grandget of BA75 but a grandget of one of the top sons/daughters of him. Would that influence you either way or still a no-no? Sorry I'm not meaning to pry at anyone or make anyone angry, I'm just exploring horse-people's thought process on pedigrees : ) For example (if you like OTMR ) looking at a horse that is a OTMR great-grandget but its grandsire and sire are both major producers and performers.
^^^^ THIS......That being said, IF the "grand" is a great horse and has the credentials, I would "consider" the horse on that merit....not on the merit of the GREAT grandsire. |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| NJJ - 2014-12-28 6:44 PM
SG. - 2014-12-28 6:25 PM RoaniePonie11 - 2014-12-28 6:20 PM NJJ - 2014-12-28 6:01 PM If I am looking at a horse, I don't want it to be any further back than "grand"....... I have a question for you : ) What about if the horse you are looking at is a great-grandget BUT out of one of the top sons/daughters of that horse? Like great-grandget of BA75 but a grandget of one of the top sons/daughters of him. Would that influence you either way or still a no-no? Sorry I'm not meaning to pry at anyone or make anyone angry, I'm just exploring horse-people's thought process on pedigrees : ) For example (if you like OTMR ) looking at a horse that is a OTMR great-grandget but its grandsire and sire are both major producers and performers.
Ah, I follow. Thank you :) |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| RoaniePonie11 - 2014-12-28 3:22 PM
SG. - 2014-12-28 3:20 PM
Son or daughter Direct .Otherwise you need to specify grandson or granddaughter
So in your OP what does it take to be "double bred" something
ETA like "double bred DTF"
As for double bred
I have a few who some would consider double bred
I have a daughter of judge cash who i have bred to a son of DTF, and another year to a son of DFP some would say double bred Dash for Cash.
This coming year I may breed one of two of my FDD grand babies to another FDD grand son.
I personally don't look at double bred, but did have one foundation mare that was 97% king.
As for what classifies prodigney, I aggree direct sons or daughters. I want the sire to be proven on his own I don't want to breed or buy a horse who has nothing in the first generation. |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | NJJ - 2014-12-28 6:44 PM
SG. - 2014-12-28 6:25 PM RoaniePonie11 - 2014-12-28 6:20 PM NJJ - 2014-12-28 6:01 PM If I am looking at a horse, I don't want it to be any further back than "grand"....... I have a question for you : ) What about if the horse you are looking at is a great-grandget BUT out of one of the top sons/daughters of that horse? Like great-grandget of BA75 but a grandget of one of the top sons/daughters of him. Would that influence you either way or still a no-no? Sorry I'm not meaning to pry at anyone or make anyone angry, I'm just exploring horse-people's thought process on pedigrees : ) For example (if you like OTMR ) looking at a horse that is a OTMR great-grandget but its grandsire and sire are both major producers and performers.
agreed |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| Hahaha I get so annoyed when someone lists their horse as bred such and such and it's not even on the papers. I personally don't look past the grand part bc the great grand are so diluted. When I was buying my big gelding they were marketing him as double bred dfc. He is but way back. He's actually double FDD, a grandson on top out of own daughter of Holland Ease and successful Shawnee Bug mare. I like FDD better than the DFC anyway :) I think sometimes people just pick the most recognizable name to put in ad. |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | RoaniePonie11 - 2014-12-28 6:20 PM
NJJ - 2014-12-28 6:01 PM
If I am looking at a horse, I don't want it to be any further back than "grand".......
I have a question for you : ) What about if the horse you are looking at is a great-grandget BUT out of one of the top sons/daughters of that horse? Like great-grandget of BA75 but a grandget of one of the top sons/daughters of him. Would that influence you either way or still a no-no?
Sorry I'm not meaning to pry at anyone or make anyone angry, I'm just exploring horse-people's thought process on pedigrees : )
For example (if you like OTMR ) looking at a horse that is a OTMR great-grandget but its grandsire and sire are both major producers and performers.
Under that pretense.... lets say Slick By Design. He's by Designer Red, by OTMR. In that case, Slick By Design is big enough in his own right the horse is BY Slick By Design. You wouldn't say he goes back to OTMR. |
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Expert
Posts: 1314
Location: North Central Iowa Land of white frozen grass | Well then Slick by Design is too deluted to because he has On The Money Red 3 generations back. I just can't believe you all think that if a horse is not a direct son or daughter of a big name horse that they are not worth looking at. Maybe it just takes someone to take the horse out and prove it. What good is any breeding program if the ofspring keeps getting worse in everyones minds because they all eventually become grandget of somebody. |
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Blessed
Location: Here | BS Hauler - 2014-12-29 11:34 AM Well then Slick by Design is too deluted to because he has On The Money Red 3 generations back. I just can't believe you all think that if a horse is not a direct son or daughter of a big name horse that they are not worth looking at. Maybe it just takes someone to take the horse out and prove it. What good is any breeding program if the ofspring keeps getting worse in everyones minds because they all eventually become grandget of somebody.
He is not diluted as he has proven himself to stand on his own merit |
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | SG. - 2014-12-29 12:39 PM BS Hauler - 2014-12-29 11:34 AM Well then Slick by Design is too deluted to because he has On The Money Red 3 generations back. I just can't believe you all think that if a horse is not a direct son or daughter of a big name horse that they are not worth looking at. Maybe it just takes someone to take the horse out and prove it. What good is any breeding program if the ofspring keeps getting worse in everyones minds because they all eventually become grandget of somebody. He is not diluted as he has proven himself to stand on his own merit
Exactly. If I had a colt by SBD, I wouldn't say he is OTMR bred... I would say he is SBD bred.
One of the announcers at the NFR said one of the horses running was Dash For Cash bred. That doesn't mean much to me since DFC is so far back on a lot of papers. |
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Who Wants to Trade?
Posts: 4692
| I say what I have, exactly. Example: Filly by Chasin Firewater out of a Dashing Val mare. I don't say: Firewater Flit and Dfc bred.
I usually list sire then the broodmare sire. I'll also occasionally list mare accomplishments. I don't list stallion accomplishments because I try to breed to stallions people know already. So, as another example: 3yo filly by Bigtime Favorite out of graded stakes placed Streakin La Jolla mare. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| The clock is all that matters 
Remember this is racing... |
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Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | Itsme - 2014-12-29 1:17 PM The clock is all that matters Remember this is racing...
For breeders, verbage and bloodlines are money. |
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 Do You Feel Lucky Punk?
Posts: 3156
Location: NM...the Land of Manana | I think people say that mostly when there is not a big, recognizable name closer up on their papers. I think it is essentially just a point of reference for people to get some idea of what type of breeding is in the pedigree. |
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Blessed
Location: Here | Lightfoot - 2014-12-29 12:32 PM
I think people say that mostly when there is not a big, recognizable name closer up on their papers. I think it is essentially just a point of reference for people to get some idea of what type of breeding is in the pedigree.
I can see that but they don't realize they are turning off buyers by saving for example dtf filly for sale When said filly is 4Th generation dtf They say 4th generation dtf Or better yet tell us what dam and sire and reference what they are out of Jmho |
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"such & such" bred