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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
 
Location: Oklahoma | I should recieve the Orogin in just a few days and will start it immediately. I've also ordered some Vitamin E and should be here by the end of the week.
Can I start the Orogin without the Vit E, or will a few doses be okay before starting the Vitamin E?
The horse just got the go ahead to go back to work (legging up) about two weeks ago, but I planned on giving him another month off anyway (before the EPM was determined).... Does this require more time off or will it be okay to ride before the six week blood re-test?
I originally hauled him to a vet to get tested for EPM, but the vet didn't think we needed to draw blood. The second vet was the one who suggested it, but didn't urge me for the blood test after his balanced was deemed okay. Second vet (one who has been seeing him regularly for a suspensory injury) noticed he looked very different... Very atrophied in his hind end.
I know I was recommended reBalance a few weeks ago.... Is that something that is meant to take place of the Orogin or something to supplement inbetween treatments (assuming you do more than one treatment)?
all new to this and will take any information I can get! |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
 
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I have no advice for you, I have never dealt with EPM but just wanted to give you a hug and say good luck with what you are going threw. Sounds like you are getting all your bases covered.  |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | I just emailed Bob at THE about his EPM supplement. Here is his reply to me. I am still undetermined if mine has it. The blood test says no, the vets here in WY all say no because they don't deal with it at all here, but sometimes I wonder. He came out of OR 2 yrs ago. He is also healing from a ligament deal.
The EPM Supplement will help the horse out a lot. If you have a blood test (CBC and Chem) I can take at it and see what I found. The Formula has a more Vitamin E and Folic acid plus a lot of amino acids and minerals that most people and Vet's over look. |
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 Texas Taco
Posts: 7499
Location: Bandera, TX | I had good success with Oroquin! |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I would advise you to internet and read, read, i did for several day. And dr. Ellerson, kept coming up. And a horse just not quite right. And body soreness, one rear leg, more right side than left. Did u c davis test, negative. Doc did not know what to say. Call doc ellerson did her blood test, treated with oriquin. Horse seems better. I have health problems, havent rode. Gettin ready to go back riding.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 975
Location: The barn...where else? SW Missouri | GoMistyGo - 2014-12-29 6:58 PM
I had good success with Oroquin!
Me too. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 302
| I just finished 10 weeks of Marquis and Vitamin E. The UC Davis blood test showed titers at 1:360 before treatment and at 8 weeks of treatment it came down to 1:050. My vets were very pleased. My horse only seemed to have left side atrophy of face and some problems chewing. This is a very difficult disease. I just pray he doesn't relapse. Good luck with your treatment. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| Rebalance is a treatment. Since we seem to have our EPM under control, I give mine Rebalance every 4-6 months as a preventative. As a matter of fact,he is on it right now. |
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Member
Posts: 36
| where do you get the rebalance
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Can you do the Rebalance first and see if you notice anything or just treat with the real stuff? I am just on the fence with mine. He had a legit injury, just not sure if what he has now is from that or something else.
http://www.drugs.com/vet/rebalance-antiprotozoal-oral-suspension.html |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| It is a prescription drug. I get it from the vet. You understand this is a TREATMENT option not a supplement. My horse has also had a couple of rounds of Baycox |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| Start treating right away! don't wait for the vitamin E to come in, it's not going to effect the drugs either way. Keep him on the vitamin E for as long as you can. You might also find another supplement to help with inflammation along with the vitamin E. I've heard people talk about Duralactin, but I haven't done any research on it so i'm not sure if it works or not. |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | Thank you, everyone! He hasn't had any trouble rolling around in the pasture (does it daily) or moving around and he passed two neuro tests so I'm hoping the damage isn't too severe. I hope to recieve a copy of his test results with the meds.
Daisy, he has been constantly resting his right hind leg for quite some time now. I've had vets tell me "oh, that's normal." and others say "no, that's not normal." We're talking he takes a few steps and that leg is automatically rested. Thought it might have been from the suspensory inflammation (same leg), but now I'm thinking that this (EPM) is the real answer.
Krystal, I strongly urge you to get the blood drawn. From my understanding (from reading on here) all horses have some of the protozoa in their system, just affects some differently than others. I thought that I could blame all my problems on the suspensory injury that he has, especially after he passed two neuro tests, but the blood work was the only way we found it.
How do you prevent a relapse... and what determines he's having a relapse? The only thing that suggested EPM was his muscle atrophy, resting his hind leg and he's been giving me issues picking up his feet (again, always thought it was related to the suspensory injury). He's not having problems eating, drinking or moving about (but he's also not been worked under a saddle since early September, so there could be issues there.). Do you treat every 4-6 months without re-testing the blood? Is there any harm in doing treatments without drawing the blood?
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 9:29 AM Start treating right away! don't wait for the vitamin E to come in, it's not going to effect the drugs either way. Keep him on the vitamin E for as long as you can. You might also find another supplement to help with inflammation along with the vitamin E. I've heard people talk about Duralactin, but I haven't done any research on it so i'm not sure if it works or not.
Thanks! I have an inflammation blend in his THE blend, I think it helped with his suspensories so hopefully it'll keep helping with this...... Do you think I should give him some bute for a couple of days until the Orogin gets in? |
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 Expert
Posts: 2013
Location: Piedmont, OK | Once you have treated them for EPM it is very important you keep them on an immune booster. I have been told by 3 different vets they never get 100% rid of the protozoa so it is vital they have a strong immunity. You can put them on some thing like Lysine or Animal Element has the Immune formula which is an excellent way to keep them strong and healthy. I treated one for EPM last year. It was a compounded drug with DMSO I can't remember what it is called but since then have kept my gelding on the Immune formula and he is healthy and sound. |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| Longneck - 2014-12-30 9:35 AM
FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 9:29 AM Start treating right away! don't wait for the vitamin E to come in, it's not going to effect the drugs either way. Keep him on the vitamin E for as long as you can. You might also find another supplement to help with inflammation along with the vitamin E. I've heard people talk about Duralactin, but I haven't done any research on it so i'm not sure if it works or not.
Thanks! I have an inflammation blend in his THE blend, I think it helped with his suspensories so hopefully it'll keep helping with this...... Do you think I should give him some bute for a couple of days until the Orogin gets in?
It most certainly wouldn't hurt. 2 grams a day. I'm all for anything that will give the horse the upper hand on the EPM. And remember to give him time after treatment to allow his immune system to rebound. Same goes for when you bring him back to full work. Slow! |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 11:13 AM Longneck - 2014-12-30 9:35 AM FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 9:29 AM Start treating right away! don't wait for the vitamin E to come in, it's not going to effect the drugs either way. Keep him on the vitamin E for as long as you can. You might also find another supplement to help with inflammation along with the vitamin E. I've heard people talk about Duralactin, but I haven't done any research on it so i'm not sure if it works or not. Thanks! I have an inflammation blend in his THE blend, I think it helped with his suspensories so hopefully it'll keep helping with this...... Do you think I should give him some bute for a couple of days until the Orogin gets in? It most certainly wouldn't hurt. 2 grams a day. I'm all for anything that will give the horse the upper hand on the EPM. And remember to give him time after treatment to allow his immune system to rebound. Same goes for when you bring him back to full work. Slow!
How long do you give the Orogin/Oroquin-10 and what is a schedule to bring them back? Mine has literally been hanging out in the corral since August. I planned to give his ligament off until at least Spring-April/May. Then if he vet checks out I was going to send him off for another 30 days riding. |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| wyoming barrel racer - 2014-12-30 12:26 PM
FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 11:13 AM Longneck - 2014-12-30 9:35 AM FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 9:29 AM Start treating right away! don't wait for the vitamin E to come in, it's not going to effect the drugs either way. Keep him on the vitamin E for as long as you can. You might also find another supplement to help with inflammation along with the vitamin E. I've heard people talk about Duralactin, but I haven't done any research on it so i'm not sure if it works or not. Thanks! I have an inflammation blend in his THE blend, I think it helped with his suspensories so hopefully it'll keep helping with this...... Do you think I should give him some bute for a couple of days until the Orogin gets in? It most certainly wouldn't hurt. 2 grams a day. I'm all for anything that will give the horse the upper hand on the EPM. And remember to give him time after treatment to allow his immune system to rebound. Same goes for when you bring him back to full work. Slow!
10 days and then you usually follow up with levamisole for another 10 days. I don't think there is really a schedule to bring them back you just want to do it slow so that you don't add to much stress. Stress, pushing them to hard to fast, can be a trigger for relapse. Once a horse gets it, some believe a majority of horses already have it just don't show signs because the protozoa is in active until triggered, they will continue to carry it and always have a chance to relapse. From your other post, what makes you think he has it if the tests have come back negative? |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 12:13 PM Longneck - 2014-12-30 9:35 AM FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 9:29 AM Start treating right away! don't wait for the vitamin E to come in, it's not going to effect the drugs either way. Keep him on the vitamin E for as long as you can. You might also find another supplement to help with inflammation along with the vitamin E. I've heard people talk about Duralactin, but I haven't done any research on it so i'm not sure if it works or not. Thanks! I have an inflammation blend in his THE blend, I think it helped with his suspensories so hopefully it'll keep helping with this...... Do you think I should give him some bute for a couple of days until the Orogin gets in? It most certainly wouldn't hurt. 2 grams a day. I'm all for anything that will give the horse the upper hand on the EPM. And remember to give him time after treatment to allow his immune system to rebound. Same goes for when you bring him back to full work. Slow!
Thanks! I will add some bute to his (soaked) hay tonight. Looks like I'll push his legging back up another few weeks! |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 11:58 AM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-12-30 12:26 PM FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 11:13 AM Longneck - 2014-12-30 9:35 AM FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 9:29 AM Start treating right away! don't wait for the vitamin E to come in, it's not going to effect the drugs either way. Keep him on the vitamin E for as long as you can. You might also find another supplement to help with inflammation along with the vitamin E. I've heard people talk about Duralactin, but I haven't done any research on it so i'm not sure if it works or not. Thanks! I have an inflammation blend in his THE blend, I think it helped with his suspensories so hopefully it'll keep helping with this...... Do you think I should give him some bute for a couple of days until the Orogin gets in? It most certainly wouldn't hurt. 2 grams a day. I'm all for anything that will give the horse the upper hand on the EPM. And remember to give him time after treatment to allow his immune system to rebound. Same goes for when you bring him back to full work. Slow! 10 days and then you usually follow up with levamisole for another 10 days. I don't think there is really a schedule to bring them back you just want to do it slow so that you don't add to much stress. Stress, pushing them to hard to fast, can be a trigger for relapse. Once a horse gets it, some believe a majority of horses already have it just don't show signs because the protozoa is in active until triggered, they will continue to carry it and always have a chance to relapse. From your other post, what makes you think he has it if the tests have come back negative?
SAG 1, 5, 6 are 2
CRP/Lyme Titer 22
What we recommend: Use Orogin to determine treatment response, then recheck 10 days post treatement. This was from end of Aug. I called them as the results didn't say one thing or another. Kind of a try and treat and see. They basically told me to treat if I wanted, but the results didn't show he had EPM.
My vet is a good guy here, but EPM is so unheard of in WY most have never knowingly dealt with an EPM positive horse in their entire career. They have no advice to give. My vet is willing to order the meds for me if I want to try it. I did call today to get it on the way and also ordered Vitamin E/Folic Acid supplement and will use the THE EPM one. He rests a hind leg a lot, has since the front foot injury so I am unsure if one leads to the other or...
Edited by wyoming barrel racer 2014-12-30 1:43 PM
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | wyoming barrel racer - 2014-12-30 1:30 PM FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 11:58 AM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-12-30 12:26 PM FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 11:13 AM Longneck - 2014-12-30 9:35 AM FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 9:29 AM Start treating right away! don't wait for the vitamin E to come in, it's not going to effect the drugs either way. Keep him on the vitamin E for as long as you can. You might also find another supplement to help with inflammation along with the vitamin E. I've heard people talk about Duralactin, but I haven't done any research on it so i'm not sure if it works or not. Thanks! I have an inflammation blend in his THE blend, I think it helped with his suspensories so hopefully it'll keep helping with this...... Do you think I should give him some bute for a couple of days until the Orogin gets in? It most certainly wouldn't hurt. 2 grams a day. I'm all for anything that will give the horse the upper hand on the EPM. And remember to give him time after treatment to allow his immune system to rebound. Same goes for when you bring him back to full work. Slow! 10 days and then you usually follow up with levamisole for another 10 days. I don't think there is really a schedule to bring them back you just want to do it slow so that you don't add to much stress. Stress, pushing them to hard to fast, can be a trigger for relapse. Once a horse gets it, some believe a majority of horses already have it just don't show signs because the protozoa is in active until triggered, they will continue to carry it and always have a chance to relapse. From your other post, what makes you think he has it if the tests have come back negative?
SAG 1, 5, 6 are 2
CRP/Lyme Titer 11
What we recommend: Use Orogin to determine treatment response, then recheck 10 days post treatement. This was from end of Aug. I called them as the results didn't say one thing or another. Kind of a try and treat and see. They basically told me to treat if I wanted, but the results didn't show he had EPM.
My vet is a good guy here, but EPM is so unheard of in WY most have never knowingly dealt with an EPM positive horse in their entire career. They have no advice to give. My vet is willing to order the meds for me if I want to try it. I did call today to get it on the way and also ordered Vitamin E/Folic Acid supplement and will use the THE EPM one. He rests a hind leg a lot, has since the front foot injury so I am unsure if one leads to the other or...
I am in the same boat as you... when I read that EPM causes inflammation I was wondering if EPM was my true cause of the inflammation in the suspensory from the get go vs. thinking it was crappy ground I was working/running on and hurt him.
Anyone have any thoughts??
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| wyoming barrel racer - 2014-12-30 1:30 PM FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 11:58 AM 10 days and then you usually follow up with levamisole for another 10 days. I don't think there is really a schedule to bring them back you just want to do it slow so that you don't add to much stress. Stress, pushing them to hard to fast, can be a trigger for relapse. Once a horse gets it, some believe a majority of horses already have it just don't show signs because the protozoa is in active until triggered, they will continue to carry it and always have a chance to relapse. From your other post, what makes you think he has it if the tests have come back negative?
SAG 1, 5, 6 are 2
CRP/Lyme Titer 11
What we recommend: Use Orogin to determine treatment response, then recheck 10 days post treatement. This was from end of Aug. I called them as the results didn't say one thing or another. Kind of a try and treat and see. They basically told me to treat if I wanted, but the results didn't show he had EPM.
My vet is a good guy here, but EPM is so unheard of in WY most have never knowingly dealt with an EPM positive horse in their entire career. They have no advice to give. My vet is willing to order the meds for me if I want to try it. I did call today to get it on the way and also ordered Vitamin E/Folic Acid supplement and will use the THE EPM one. He rests a hind leg a lot, has since the front foot injury so I am unsure if one leads to the other or...
I was going to say you could try rebalance. Its a little cheaper and if you see improvment on that then you could spend the money to treat but since you already ordered it good luck! EPM is an exhausting, inconsistant, frustrating diagnosis. No case is the same, each horse responds differently, and it can cost owners 100's-1000's in diagnosing and treating. The first time I had to deal with it, it took my vet 3 months to decide to test for epm. My uncle, who owns race horses, suggested it as soon as I told him what was going on with the horse, but my vet couldn't find any neurological symptoms other than the muscle atrophy which he thought was from tying up. I then treated with Marquis which did nothing. Thats when I changed vets and we treated with the Orogin/Levamisole. Since then I have been using it or Diclazuril, which works very well too, to treat with. Look through all the EPM threads on BHW, there is loads of information and every story is different. Good Luck! |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 12:48 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-12-30 1:30 PM FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 11:58 AM 10 days and then you usually follow up with levamisole for another 10 days. I don't think there is really a schedule to bring them back you just want to do it slow so that you don't add to much stress. Stress, pushing them to hard to fast, can be a trigger for relapse. Once a horse gets it, some believe a majority of horses already have it just don't show signs because the protozoa is in active until triggered, they will continue to carry it and always have a chance to relapse. From your other post, what makes you think he has it if the tests have come back negative?
SAG 1, 5, 6 are 2
CRP/Lyme Titer 11
What we recommend: Use Orogin to determine treatment response, then recheck 10 days post treatement. This was from end of Aug. I called them as the results didn't say one thing or another. Kind of a try and treat and see. They basically told me to treat if I wanted, but the results didn't show he had EPM.
My vet is a good guy here, but EPM is so unheard of in WY most have never knowingly dealt with an EPM positive horse in their entire career. They have no advice to give. My vet is willing to order the meds for me if I want to try it. I did call today to get it on the way and also ordered Vitamin E/Folic Acid supplement and will use the THE EPM one. He rests a hind leg a lot, has since the front foot injury so I am unsure if one leads to the other or...
I AM LOST!!! :(
Is Orogin/Levamisole the same thing? We actually planned to order as soon as the results came back, but since he has no clue what he is ordering, he couldn't find Orogin by that name in his supply book. The horse was really progressing just being back home, on ulcer supplements, treating that ligament and rest. So I told him not to worry about it for now.
Now I think I will go ahead and treat and hope for something. On one hand I want him to improve aned quit resting his hind legs and doing the odd things, but then that would mean it is actually EPM. But on the other hand, if it doesn't fix anything, then I am back to square one not knowing what the hell is wrong with him.
Edited by wyoming barrel racer 2014-12-30 1:58 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 975
Location: The barn...where else? SW Missouri | I saw improvement with my mare on the 3rd day of treatment with Origin. She seemed peppier and more herself. She had atrophy over her hind muscles and no energy at all. She just wasn't herself. She drastically improved after the Levamisole. Her muscles are back and she is looking and feeling great. I firmly believe in the Origin and Levamisole. At least I feel it worked for my mare.
Edited by RunNbarrels 2014-12-30 2:37 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| wyoming barrel racer - 2014-12-30 1:56 PM
FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 12:48 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-12-30 1:30 PM FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 11:58 AM 10 days and then you usually follow up with levamisole for another 10 days. I don't think there is really a schedule to bring them back you just want to do it slow so that you don't add to much stress. Stress, pushing them to hard to fast, can be a trigger for relapse. Once a horse gets it, some believe a majority of horses already have it just don't show signs because the protozoa is in active until triggered, they will continue to carry it and always have a chance to relapse. From your other post, what makes you think he has it if the tests have come back negative?
SAG 1, 5, 6 are 2
CRP/Lyme Titer 11
What we recommend: Use Orogin to determine treatment response, then recheck 10 days post treatement. This was from end of Aug. I called them as the results didn't say one thing or another. Kind of a try and treat and see. They basically told me to treat if I wanted, but the results didn't show he had EPM.
My vet is a good guy here, but EPM is so unheard of in WY most have never knowingly dealt with an EPM positive horse in their entire career. They have no advice to give. My vet is willing to order the meds for me if I want to try it. I did call today to get it on the way and also ordered Vitamin E/Folic Acid supplement and will use the THE EPM one. He rests a hind leg a lot, has since the front foot injury so I am unsure if one leads to the other or... I was going to say you could try rebalance. Its a little cheaper and if you see improvment on that then you could spend the money to treat but since you already ordered it good luck! EPM is an exhausting, inconsistant, frustrating diagnosis. No case is the same, each horse responds differently, and it can cost owners 100's-1000's in diagnosing and treating. The first time I had to deal with it, it took my vet 3 months to decide to test for epm. My uncle, who owns race horses, suggested it as soon as I told him what was going on with the horse, but my vet couldn't find any neurological symptoms other than the muscle atrophy which he thought was from tying up. I then treated with Marquis which did nothing. Thats when I changed vets and we treated with the Orogin/Levamisole. Since then I have been using it or Diclazuril, which works very well too, to treat with. Look through all the EPM threads on BHW, there is loads of information and every story is different. Good Luck!
I AM LOST!!! :(
Is Orogin/Levamisole the same thing? We actually planned to order as soon as the results came back, but since he has no clue what he is ordering, he couldn't find Orogin by that name in his supply book. The horse was really progressing just being back home, on ulcer supplements, treating that ligament and rest. So I told him not to worry about it for now.
Now I think I will go ahead and treat and hope for something. On one hand I want him to improve aned quit resting his hind legs and doing the odd things, but then that would mean it is actually EPM. But on the other hand, if it doesn't fix anything, then I am back to square one not knowing what the hell is wrong with him.
It's the same thing, out of Pathogenes, but I treat an additional 10 days with just straight Levamisole. Levamisole was originally used as a dewormer and still is used. The vet I switched to was familiar with the research they are doing at the University of Florida and she suggested treating with the additional Levamisole. So far so good in every case I've had. I would say that if you don't see improvement within the first week of treatment than the horse probably doesn't have it. But... then again, it's a funny disease that is never the same from case to case. I would definitely think that after two treatments and no sign of improvement you are treating for the wrong thing. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | what are any side affects to watch for?
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| wyoming barrel racer - 2014-12-30 3:04 PM
what are any side affects to watch for?
I don't know if there is any. I know that Decoquinate is safe up to 40X the dose and Levamisole is safe up to 48X. |
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Texas Taco
Posts: 7499
Location: Bandera, TX | Longneck - 2014-12-30 1:35 PM
wyoming barrel racer - 2014-12-30 1:30 PM FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 11:58 AM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-12-30 12:26 PM FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 11:13 AM Longneck - 2014-12-30 9:35 AM FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 9:29 AM Start treating right away! don't wait for the vitamin E to come in, it's not going to effect the drugs either way. Keep him on the vitamin E for as long as you can. You might also find another supplement to help with inflammation along with the vitamin E. I've heard people talk about Duralactin, but I haven't done any research on it so i'm not sure if it works or not. Thanks! I have an inflammation blend in his THE blend, I think it helped with his suspensories so hopefully it'll keep helping with this...... Do you think I should give him some bute for a couple of days until the Orogin gets in? It most certainly wouldn't hurt. 2 grams a day. I'm all for anything that will give the horse the upper hand on the EPM. And remember to give him time after treatment to allow his immune system to rebound. Same goes for when you bring him back to full work. Slow! 10 days and then you usually follow up with levamisole for another 10 days. I don't think there is really a schedule to bring them back you just want to do it slow so that you don't add to much stress. Stress, pushing them to hard to fast, can be a trigger for relapse. Once a horse gets it, some believe a majority of horses already have it just don't show signs because the protozoa is in active until triggered, they will continue to carry it and always have a chance to relapse. From your other post, what makes you think he has it if the tests have come back negative?
SAG 1, 5, 6 are 2
CRP/Lyme Titer 11
What we recommend: Use Orogin to determine treatment response, then recheck 10 days post treatement. This was from end of Aug. I called them as the results didn't say one thing or another. Kind of a try and treat and see. They basically told me to treat if I wanted, but the results didn't show he had EPM.
My vet is a good guy here, but EPM is so unheard of in WY most have never knowingly dealt with an EPM positive horse in their entire career. They have no advice to give. My vet is willing to order the meds for me if I want to try it. I did call today to get it on the way and also ordered Vitamin E/Folic Acid supplement and will use the THE EPM one. He rests a hind leg a lot, has since the front foot injury so I am unsure if one leads to the other or...
Anyone have any thoughts??
Interesting thought... My mare has been off most of the year for various unexplainable ailments... However EPM was one of them... Had a very extensive and expensive work up last week and we also have a suspensory injury.... |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | ReBalance won't take care of EPM completely. It's $75 a bottle and you have to give 30cc's orally for a month. The Pathogenes blood test is $60 and the Orogin treatment is one pill a day for 10 days for $200. You can't afford to mess around with EPM. If it's suspected in the slightest way get them tested and treated. I am currently treating 3 head and will be testing 3 more soon.
You can't count on vets to catch it. Many don't have enough experience with EPM and only see it once it's progressed to the point that it's obvious. EPM does not come on quickly like West Nile or other diseases, from what I've seen it's very subtle and you have to know what is normal and what is not for your horse. One of the first things that we've noticed is right rear lameness and spooking or shying away from things that normally don't bother them...depression, odd gaits, etc. There are so many ways for it to present itself... |
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Texas Taco
Posts: 7499
Location: Bandera, TX | rachellyn80 - 2014-12-31 10:44 AM
ReBalance won't take care of EPM completely. It's $75 a bottle and you have to give 30cc's orally for a month. The Pathogenes blood test is $60 and the Orogin treatment is one pill a day for 10 days for $200. You can't afford to mess around with EPM. If it's suspected in the slightest way get them tested and treated. I am currently treating 3 head and will be testing 3 more soon.
You can't count on vets to catch it. Many don't have enough experience with EPM and only see it once it's progressed to the point that it's obvious. EPM does not come on quickly like West Nile or other diseases, from what I've seen it's very subtle and you have to know what is normal and what is not for your horse. One of the first things that we've noticed is right rear lameness and spooking or shying away from things that normally don't bother them...depression, odd gaits, etc. There are so many ways for it to present itself...
I agree! EPM is a very odd disease and does what it wants. My mare had an extensive work up by an older, very experienced equine vet in the spring. She passed a complete neurological exam. I insisted on the EPM test just to rule it out for sure. It came back with a strong positive. Vet was amazed!!! |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | rachellyn80 - 2014-12-31 9:44 AM ReBalance won't take care of EPM completely. It's $75 a bottle and you have to give 30cc's orally for a month. The Pathogenes blood test is $60 and the Orogin treatment is one pill a day for 10 days for $200. You can't afford to mess around with EPM. If it's suspected in the slightest way get them tested and treated. I am currently treating 3 head and will be testing 3 more soon.
You can't count on vets to catch it. Many don't have enough experience with EPM and only see it once it's progressed to the point that it's obvious. EPM does not come on quickly like West Nile or other diseases, from what I've seen it's very subtle and you have to know what is normal and what is not for your horse. One of the first things that we've noticed is right rear lameness and spooking or shying away from things that normally don't bother them...depression, odd gaits, etc. There are so many ways for it to present itself... I'm glad I have some on the way now. My gelding started to not finish his grain this past 10 days or so. He will grab a bite and walk back out of the barn to look around and act nervous at things. He does act a bit depressed but I don't know how much of that was from being cooped up in the corral for the ligament deal. He started to act much better once we treated his leg. That is what threw us off the EPM trail. I'm just going to treat for it and see what happens. As it is now, he isn't any good to me. I'm hoping this will give me my horse back.
Edited by wyoming barrel racer 2014-12-31 11:14 AM
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | Well, the Orogin came in the mail this morning and I just gave him his first pill wedged in between a soaked alfalfa cube... He wasn't crazy about it! I guess I'll have to smash it up and soak it so he can't pick around it. Please keep him in your prayers. He's been turned out from his stall rest for two weeks and he was pretty happy about his freedom, but now I can tell he's getting lethargic. Hoping he starts to feeling better ASAP! |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | This pills crush very easily. I use something sticky like syrup or honey to make it stick to their feed. I haven't had any trouble getting them to eat it. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | rachellyn80 - 2014-12-31 11:48 AM This pills crush very easily. I use something sticky like syrup or honey to make it stick to their feed. I haven't had any trouble getting them to eat it.
Can you crush it and mix it in a bucket of alfalfa/beet pellets soaked? I give my guy that in the mornings when it is cold. I can do it daily so he will eat it. He's horrible to give anything by syringe. He can clamp his jaws like a steel vise. Does it hurt for it to be spread around in that much feed, maybe it is a dumb question but I don't want to waste it if he needs to comsume it mostly all together. |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | I don't know if it hurts anything... I just make sure I give mine a small amount of feed with the medicine and then give them the rest of their feed after they finish. |
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Red Hot Cardinal Fan
Posts: 4122
| If you have trouble with one eating it mixed in their grain, Orogin desolves very quickly in liquid. I put the pill in a syringe and filled it with some type of juice, then just squirt it in her mouth with the syringe. She's an extremely picky eater, so this is what I found that works.
I treated with Orogin last May/June and she's been great ever since. She was out only a 2 or 3 months from competing. I had her examed after we finished treatment and starting lightly exercising her the following week per vets recommendation. When legging her up, I started out pretty slow with mostly long trotting and some loping only in straight lines. After about a month, I just went back to our normal routine and was back to running soon.
I am going back to my vet next month, 5 hour haul, and thought about having them pull blood again just for my peace of mind. Plus I was going to pick his brain on relapses and how/what to do to prevent them. Anyone have any advice on preventing relapses? |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | rachellyn80 - 2014-12-31 12:40 PM I don't know if it hurts anything... I just make sure I give mine a small amount of feed with the medicine and then give them the rest of their feed after they finish.
I'll just do that, give a small amount and the the rest after I know he ate the pill. He's not picky so hopefully it won't be a problem |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| wyoming barrel racer - 2014-12-30 1:56 PM
FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 12:48 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-12-30 1:30 PM FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 11:58 AM 10 days and then you usually follow up with levamisole for another 10 days. I don't think there is really a schedule to bring them back you just want to do it slow so that you don't add to much stress. Stress, pushing them to hard to fast, can be a trigger for relapse. Once a horse gets it, some believe a majority of horses already have it just don't show signs because the protozoa is in active until triggered, they will continue to carry it and always have a chance to relapse. From your other post, what makes you think he has it if the tests have come back negative?
SAG 1, 5, 6 are 2
CRP/Lyme Titer 11
What we recommend: Use Orogin to determine treatment response, then recheck 10 days post treatement. This was from end of Aug. I called them as the results didn't say one thing or another. Kind of a try and treat and see. They basically told me to treat if I wanted, but the results didn't show he had EPM.
My vet is a good guy here, but EPM is so unheard of in WY most have never knowingly dealt with an EPM positive horse in their entire career. They have no advice to give. My vet is willing to order the meds for me if I want to try it. I did call today to get it on the way and also ordered Vitamin E/Folic Acid supplement and will use the THE EPM one. He rests a hind leg a lot, has since the front foot injury so I am unsure if one leads to the other or... I was going to say you could try rebalance. Its a little cheaper and if you see improvment on that then you could spend the money to treat but since you already ordered it good luck! EPM is an exhausting, inconsistant, frustrating diagnosis. No case is the same, each horse responds differently, and it can cost owners 100's-1000's in diagnosing and treating. The first time I had to deal with it, it took my vet 3 months to decide to test for epm. My uncle, who owns race horses, suggested it as soon as I told him what was going on with the horse, but my vet couldn't find any neurological symptoms other than the muscle atrophy which he thought was from tying up. I then treated with Marquis which did nothing. Thats when I changed vets and we treated with the Orogin/Levamisole. Since then I have been using it or Diclazuril, which works very well too, to treat with. Look through all the EPM threads on BHW, there is loads of information and every story is different. Good Luck!
I AM LOST!!! :(
Is Orogin/Levamisole the same thing? We actually planned to order as soon as the results came back, but since he has no clue what he is ordering, he couldn't find Orogin by that name in his supply book. The horse was really progressing just being back home, on ulcer supplements, treating that ligament and rest. So I told him not to worry about it for now.
Now I think I will go ahead and treat and hope for something. On one hand I want him to improve aned quit resting his hind legs and doing the odd things, but then that would mean it is actually EPM. But on the other hand, if it doesn't fix anything, then I am back to square one not knowing what the hell is wrong with him.[/quote
I just got some from my vet last week. Don't know where they get theirs. My vet is located near LA Downs. Rebalance is not the same thing as Oroquin. Rebalance is pyrimethamine.
Just for curiosity do you have barn cats? I used the human prescription for a horse with EPM about 1992---no one knew what EPM was and a very astute vet figured it out. The brand name drug Deraprim was what we gave my horse. It is used to treat toxoplasmosis that people get from dirty kitty litter pans. The vet I use now and I were having a dicussion about barn cats peeing and pooping in the hay since similar protozoans are responsible for both illnesses. Around here we blame EPM on possum poop---trust me, I have plenty of possums. Possums are no real common in Northern states.
Baycox (toltrazuril) is a other option. I know my vet gets that out of Canada. Runs about $300. I gave that to a yearling last summer and results were excellent. I have also used it on my horse that seems to have a chronic case EPM. He gets around of rebalance every 4-6 months now.
Edited by streakysox 2014-12-31 2:44 PM
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | streakysox - 2014-12-31 2:14 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-12-30 1:56 PM FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 12:48 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-12-30 1:30 PM FlyingJT - 2014-12-30 11:58 AM 10 days and then you usually follow up with levamisole for another 10 days. I don't think there is really a schedule to bring them back you just want to do it slow so that you don't add to much stress. Stress, pushing them to hard to fast, can be a trigger for relapse. Once a horse gets it, some believe a majority of horses already have it just don't show signs because the protozoa is in active until triggered, they will continue to carry it and always have a chance to relapse. From your other post, what makes you think he has it if the tests have come back negative?
SAG 1, 5, 6 are 2
CRP/Lyme Titer 11
What we recommend: Use Orogin to determine treatment response, then recheck 10 days post treatement. This was from end of Aug. I called them as the results didn't say one thing or another. Kind of a try and treat and see. They basically told me to treat if I wanted, but the results didn't show he had EPM.
My vet is a good guy here, but EPM is so unheard of in WY most have never knowingly dealt with an EPM positive horse in their entire career. They have no advice to give. My vet is willing to order the meds for me if I want to try it. I did call today to get it on the way and also ordered Vitamin E/Folic Acid supplement and will use the THE EPM one. He rests a hind leg a lot, has since the front foot injury so I am unsure if one leads to the other or... I was going to say you could try rebalance. Its a little cheaper and if you see improvment on that then you could spend the money to treat but since you already ordered it good luck! EPM is an exhausting, inconsistant, frustrating diagnosis. No case is the same, each horse responds differently, and it can cost owners 100's-1000's in diagnosing and treating. The first time I had to deal with it, it took my vet 3 months to decide to test for epm. My uncle, who owns race horses, suggested it as soon as I told him what was going on with the horse, but my vet couldn't find any neurological symptoms other than the muscle atrophy which he thought was from tying up. I then treated with Marquis which did nothing. Thats when I changed vets and we treated with the Orogin/Levamisole. Since then I have been using it or Diclazuril, which works very well too, to treat with. Look through all the EPM threads on BHW, there is loads of information and every story is different. Good Luck!
I AM LOST!!! :(
Is Orogin/Levamisole the same thing? We actually planned to order as soon as the results came back, but since he has no clue what he is ordering, he couldn't find Orogin by that name in his supply book. The horse was really progressing just being back home, on ulcer supplements, treating that ligament and rest. So I told him not to worry about it for now.
Now I think I will go ahead and treat and hope for something. On one hand I want him to improve aned quit resting his hind legs and doing the odd things, but then that would mean it is actually EPM. But on the other hand, if it doesn't fix anything, then I am back to square one not knowing what the hell is wrong with him.
www.pathogenes.com Orogin is not FDA approved. You have to order it through Pathogenes and they will only send it to you with a blood test.
ReBalance is not a fix.
Orogin and Neuroquel (Levamisole) are two different drugs. You can read everything you need to know about them including pricing on the Pathogenes website.
Dr. White at Sallisaw is who I use for EPM treatment and testing. |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| From what I have read àbout Oroquin 10. The drug company is doing their testing at your expense. You have to have the horse tested at your expense, then buy the drug. After administering the drug, you pay to have your horse tested and send them the results so they can obtain their results.
The human drug that is the same as Rebalance (pyrimethamine) was what I used to treat a horse in 1992 because this is all the vet and I could find to treat the horse with. It cured it at the time. I have been dealing with EPM for about 22 years now in different horses.
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | For Orogin you send the blood to their lab in Florida. They send your vet the results and you order the drugs from them. They send the drugs to your vet and the vet sends them to you. |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| rachellyn80 - 2014-12-31 3:03 PM
For Orogin you send the blood to their lab in Florida. They send your vet the results and you order the drugs from them. They send the drugs to your vet and the vet sends them to you.
Oh, OK they provide the drug at no cost to you. That is much better. From what I read, the horse owner had to pay for testing and the drug. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | That may explain why my vet can never find it. They are out of the office today so I suspect it is not on the way yet :( I'll call Friday and hope they can get it here quick from Pathogenes. I did have the blood test done through them and understand they keep the results. Thank you
And yes we have a gazillion barn cats peeing and crapping in the old hay and straw that is around here. I have since boarded up one room so they can't get to the hay so easy and we tarp any small square bales kept inside. I also keep my grains in a wooden bin or in tin garbage cans. This horse may have had some of this from coming from OR as a yearling. I have had him 2yrs and all this came about after a major cut he got on his foot. Maybe that brought it all on, the stress etc. |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | streakysox - 2014-12-31 3:17 PM rachellyn80 - 2014-12-31 3:03 PM For Orogin you send the blood to their lab in Florida. They send your vet the results and you order the drugs from them. They send the drugs to your vet and the vet sends them to you. Oh, OK they provide the drug at no cost to you. That is much better. From what I read, the horse owner had to pay for testing and the drug.
The test is $60 and Orogin is $200. |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| wyoming barrel racer - 2014-12-31 4:24 PM
That may explain why my vet can never find it. They are out of the office today so I suspect it is not on the way yet :( I'll call Friday and hope they can get it here quick from Pathogenes. I did have the blood test done through them and understand they keep the results. Thank you
And yes we have a gazillion barn cats peeing and crapping in the old hay and straw that is around here. I have since boarded up one room so they can't get to the hay so easy and we tarp any small square bales kept inside. I also keep my grains in a wooden bin or in tin garbage cans. This horse may have had some of this from coming from OR as a yearling. I have had him 2yrs and all this came about after a major cut he got on his foot. Maybe that brought it all on, the stress etc.
In 1992 when my horse was diagnosed with EPM, there were quite a few what I call city horses that died of EPM in the area around Dallas. I doubt that they have much of a possum problem. The only test that was avaolable was to post their brain after death. I think around1998 my trainer, a close friend and another girl had horses that had to be put down as a result of EPM. There was one thing they all had in common, they all fed the same feed. I have often wondered if my feed was the cause of my horse's. Like I said I have a supply of possums around her so I will never know. My paint horse had signs that I noticed and the third vet that I took him to actually listened to me. When my yearling started showing signs, I told that same vet and we discussed her systems. He went ahead and gave me Baycox and I treated her. She is great now. None of my horses have ever been tested. I can tell better than the vets can. The vet that I use now listens to me because he knows that I know my horses. The problem is that the symptoms vary so much from horse to horse. |
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I Am a Snake Killer
Posts: 1927
Location: Golden Gulf Coast of Texas | streakysox - 2015-01-01 3:06 AM
wyoming barrel racer - 2014-12-31 4:24 PM
That may explain why my vet can never find it. They are out of the office today so I suspect it is not on the way yet :( I'll call Friday and hope they can get it here quick from Pathogenes. I did have the blood test done through them and understand they keep the results. Thank you
And yes we have a gazillion barn cats peeing and crapping in the old hay and straw that is around here. I have since boarded up one room so they can't get to the hay so easy and we tarp any small square bales kept inside. I also keep my grains in a wooden bin or in tin garbage cans. This horse may have had some of this from coming from OR as a yearling. I have had him 2yrs and all this came about after a major cut he got on his foot. Maybe that brought it all on, the stress etc.
In 1992 when my horse was diagnosed with EPM, there were quite a few what I call city horses that died of EPM in the area around Dallas. I doubt that they have much of a possum problem. The only test that was avaolable was to post their brain after death. I think around1998 my trainer, a close friend and another girl had horses that had to be put down as a result of EPM. There was one thing they all had in common, they all fed the same feed. I have often wondered if my feed was the cause of my horse's. Like I said I have a supply of possums around her so I will never know. My paint horse had signs that I noticed and the third vet that I took him to actually listened to me. When my yearling started showing signs, I told that same vet and we discussed her systems. He went ahead and gave me Baycox and I treated her. She is great now. None of my horses have ever been tested. I can tell better than the vets can. The vet that I use now listens to me because he knows that I know my horses. The problem is that the symptoms vary so much from horse to horse.
Any feed that is not heat treated can be contaminated before you ever purchase it. So it doesn't matter how you store it if it's already got the Protozoa in it. Pelleted feeds and steam rolled oats should be safe. |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| Be sure they are on a good immune builder. I had a mare that had it. We did the herbal after she was treated and never had another issue. I kept her on immune builder and gave the worm detox every 60 days. Tube worm detox kept the protozoa from breaking the blood membrane barrier. |
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EPM diagnosis....now what?