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Member
Posts: 24
Location: Depew, Oklahoma | Interested in hearing your personal experiences pertaining to bleeding and how it's effected your horses performance and other related health issues caused by bleeding.
Edited by flyingcbarranch 2015-01-07 1:26 PM
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
  
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | one i could manage with lasix, one i use some supplements and one i had to retire as it wasn't controllable (is that even a word..lol)......
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 886
Location: Where its cold and hot | My mare is controlled with 6cc lasix and tri hist. I also give her every other year off or so or she starts having issues with a cough. I constantly fight issues with ulcers and weight gain I believe from having to lasix her. She is very talented but cannot run without lasix or she will bleed every time. I've tried feed through supplements and they had no affect, so I can't lower her lasix dosage. |
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Member
Posts: 24
Location: Depew, Oklahoma | Thank you so much for your response. It seems that so many have been retired from not being able to control the bleeding issue. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| My bleeder runs on 2 1/2 cc given IM 2 hours out. Has never bled through, I have him scoped every year or so to see if any damage/scarring in his lungs in case still bleeding but not enough to bleed out and all looks good. He is 16 and when he has a rider who can ride (not me) he can still lay down a 1D run. |
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  Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | EIPH is such a BROAD spectrum, or subject if you will.
EVERY single horse will be a completely different case from the last. The only way to justly treat a horse is with the help of a vet. Yes you can see signs your horse is a bleeder and start them on any kind of treatment plan. But I personally think it is best to get your vet involved to determine the best treatment. Some horses will do great on OTC products, other will not. Some need lasix, some can't have lasix. Some need more then just a bleeder drug, like changes in diet, feed, hay, supplements, training programs, etc etc.
I had not clue my horse was a bleeder. He had a horrible horrible weekend at Dixie Nationals in SC back in 2013 right after winning the 1D out of 120 horses and pulling top 2D checks at the Shamrock in Florida.
By the time my vet got to the hippodrome it was too late to rely soley on a scope. Though just using a stethscope it was obvious he had blood and/or fluid in his airway. So we opted to scratch him the remainder of the weekend and I took him to the clinic a few days later for a BAL and a trach wash. A treatment plan was formed, and he has improved dramatically as a barrel horse. All of 2014 he was winning 1D checks and placed in the 1D all but three runs all year long.
Other people aren't so lucky and do have to retire horses because of it. Some horses will bleed no matter how much you do for them.
I think that is the rare occasion. So if you are asking because you have recently discovered you own a bleeder, don't get discouraged, you could possibly have options. |
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Member
Posts: 24
Location: Depew, Oklahoma | What is the average cost of daily supplements and products given before competition to some what prevent your horse possibly from bleeding? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 612
| I feed DMG from Formula 707 and give 2 CC's of Lasix. The DMG costs about $30 for a 3 month supply and Lasix is about $20 a bottle. My horse is 17 and is running as hard as ever. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 317
Location: MS | I haven't found a supplement that really works. I have tried alot.
I'm now using Silver Horse Care's respirator. The breathing treatments are really helping.
He recovers faster and feels much better.
He hasn't bled during a practice run without lasix.
We'll run at a show in a couple weeks on lasix just to be sure. He'll be scoped right after.
If he doesn't bleed we'll start reducing the dose of lasix. He was bleeding through lasix.
My vet is working with me. He has been really impressed so far.
This is the only affordable respirator I could find. They have been great to work with. Even met me at my vet for a demo and to see what the scope showed. |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | flyingcbarranch - 2015-01-07 3:55 PM What is the average cost of daily supplements and products given before competition to some what prevent your horse possibly from bleeding?
That's the thing. There is no average. And you can't really put a value on it. I probably spend over 100 dollars a month on bleeding prevent, probably even more. If my bleeder was a 4D horse I wouldn't even consider doing it. But he's a 1D horse.
That being said, there are plenty of folks that for some reason are only capable of riding a 4D horse (maybe medical reasons or just a desire to ride a slower horse), or someone loves their horse and is having a perfect amount of fun running 4D....so for them, it's money well spent. |
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 Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | I was running mine on 3cc of lasix for a long time until he bled out a couple months ago. Now, he gets Red Lung twice daily. The day before and day of a run he gets a vial of Yunnan Baiyao. My vet knew I had several multiple run weekends plus an important finals so I was running him on 2cc lasix also as an extra precaution the remainder of 2014. He thinks I won't need the lasix with the herbal combo. I also purchased a couple of Flair Strips to try on him.
Cost:
Red Lung is $120 for a 3 month supply. By the container it's only a 30 day supple, but my vet directed me to use much less than it says. It has worked so far using the smaller dose.
Yunnan Baiyao is about $30 for 6 vials. Each run requires 2 (one the day before, one the day of), although if I run 2 days in a row, I only use 3.
I don't even know how much a bottle of lasix is LOL, they're aren't very much and they last forever it seems- I don't use much at all.
Flair Strips are $10 each, which seems high to me.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 878
Location: "...way down south in the Everglades..." | I have a 4-D mare that's coming along and starting to improve her times. After the last show she seemed fine but after I hauled her home she had just a little blood in her one nostril which is the first time I've ever seen that. She's had some of the other signs but I've chaulked it up to allergies, ulcers, etc. (ie: coughing during warming up, not drinking well at shows, not firing). I think she has potential to be a 2-D horse but I hate to dump a bunch of money in on her at this point because she's still not there mentally yet.
So wondering to those who have bleeders (not to hijack the thread)....if I have her scoped does it have to be right after a run or can it be anytime after I work her at home? If you owned her, would you scope my mare? Or hold off to see if there's any other problems before going through the expenses? |
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 Expert
Posts: 1313
Location: Georgia | The most important thing to remember is , if a horse is bleeding it needs at least 30 days off with a round of antibiotics. The lungs have to be rested long enough to heal. EVERY TIME your horse bleeds you are damaging the lasticity in the lungs by causing scar tissue.... therefore making your situation worse and harder to deal with. And running a high risk for infection as well. Which is never good. Alot of times you never even see blood.. you just notice slower times, a cough, reluctance to eat or drink after a run, anxiety.. etc. EIPH is nothing to mess around with. You can ruin a horses running career by being foolish. My best horse has been a bleeder for 10 years.. I too at first tried everything under the sun to prevent from having to inject lasix. with that said. I use3cc lasix IV 1 hour out and keep my horse on Lung Aid year around. I also make sure to keep paste electrolytes on hand for multi day shows. Lung Aid is a daily lung support that boosts the immune system to keep your horses lungs health and clear of flem that often causes cough. Treats allergies, COPD, HEAVES, etc.Since i started using it and seen how well my bleeder responded to i keep my running horses on it just for the immune support benefits. You can read about it at www.choiceofchamps.com if you decide to try it use coupon code "cockk" in promo at check out for 10% off and free shipping. Im also a big advocate of the Ulser Shield . Check it out :) |
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 Miss Positive
Posts: 3554
Location: Crowder, OK | Its caused me tons of money and grief this past year not to mention alot of good runs. I was very blessed to find out the cause of my horse's bleeding was his severe allergies. its been a huge learning experience but just glad to finally have it under control. my horse would just stop clocking, occasionally would throw his head up and step off the third barrel, but mostly he just wasnt firing. I truely believe allergies are prob alot of horse's probs when they start bleeding, an allergy test and shots or drops isnt that expensive and can really heal your horse. granted, I will never take a chance, I will still continue to run my horse on lasix because i dont want to take the chance of the bleed, the issues stemming from that far outway the use of lasix. if used correctly, lasix is very safe and is much better than scarred lungs for life that can lead to a shorter career. jmo though..... I also have been using Lung Aid from Choice of Champions, Oxygen Take No Prisoners, Oxygen Immune Support, and a breathing machine from Becky Canaday.
Edited by Tinkerbell 2015-01-08 11:43 AM
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Member
Posts: 24
Location: Depew, Oklahoma | Thank you very much for the responses. Lasix seems to be the answer to everyone's dilemma pertaining to bleeding. What if Lasix became outlawed? What if our horse industry banned the use of Lasix like other countries? What avenues would you take then to maintain a healthy, happy, winning horse? |
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Expert
Posts: 1313
Location: Georgia | I can not see them out lawing Lasix.... its used for so many things in humans and animals. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 396
Location: Iowa | I agree, I cannot forsee them banning Lasix when it benefits so many horses with bleeding, they may start requiring a Vet's notes (AQHA already does that). My mare got off lasix after I have her a year off and during that year I started her on Equi-Sure and Oxygen Product like bleeder stop....they are just very expensive compared to lasix. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2013
Location: Piedmont, OK | I have one that runs on 3cc lasix and he gets Immune by Animal Element twice a day. No problems with him bleeding thru. |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | Speedy Buckeye Girl - 2015-01-08 11:32 AM I have a 4-D mare that's coming along and starting to improve her times. After the last show she seemed fine but after I hauled her home she had just a little blood in her one nostril which is the first time I've ever seen that. She's had some of the other signs but I've chaulked it up to allergies, ulcers, etc. (ie: coughing during warming up, not drinking well at shows, not firing). I think she has potential to be a 2-D horse but I hate to dump a bunch of money in on her at this point because she's still not there mentally yet.
So wondering to those who have bleeders (not to hijack the thread)....if I have her scoped does it have to be right after a run or can it be anytime after I work her at home? If you owned her, would you scope my mare? Or hold off to see if there's any other problems before going through the expenses?
I don't think your mindset on the whole situation is fair at all.
Current scenario....you say she is 4D with potential to be 2D.
You say you aren't sure you want to dump the money into her because she's not really there mentally.
Well, shoot.....if you were bleeding you wouldn't be there mentally either. For all you know if you diagnosed and controlled her bleeding, she could be a 1D horse......not saying she will be, but she probably won't get any better if she's an untreated bleeder.
You are the only person that will know if you should spend the money to treat her. But I will give you this advise....if you don't at least get her diagnosed and do some sort of treatment, you will blow way more money on her as she is. It would be cheaper to spend the money to diagnose and treat her and later find out she still is only a 4D horse. |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | flyingcbarranch - 2015-01-08 12:46 PM Thank you very much for the responses. Lasix seems to be the answer to everyone's dilemma pertaining to bleeding. What if Lasix became outlawed? What if our horse industry banned the use of Lasix like other countries? What avenues would you take then to maintain a healthy, happy, winning horse?
Lasix is not the answer to everyone's dilemma with bleeding. But even when lasix IS the answer, there is so much more you can do then just lasix. Once you get a true diagnosis, your vet can help you figure out different things. There are other types of feeds, hays, supplements, training, etc etc etc that can assist a bleeder even when lasix is still needed.
And some horses, like my own, absolutely CANNOT have lasix. He is probably the .05 percent who can't have it. Nobody knows why and I'm sure it would cost a fortune to try to figure out exactly what it does to him. But fortunately we don't need it for him.
I know I sound like a dang broken record.......but I wouldnt' even consider treating my horse for EIPH until I had a thorough vet exam done.
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Expert
Posts: 1313
Location: Georgia | There are sooooo many reasons why a horse can bleed. It's really important to find out why... and treat it accordingly. But do not ignore it |
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Member
Posts: 24
Location: Depew, Oklahoma | Again, I appreciate each and everyone of you. I believe if you want to know about an issue ask the source. Different regions but yet similar responses. Although I don't barrel race, I have been obsessed with barrel horses and the bleeding issue since the first NFR barrel horse I assisted with during the ten days of the NFR. With every response I hope to understand more pertaining to the owners dedication in preventing EIPH in their horses and the products they used not eliminating bleeding but to control chronic bleeding during competition. I actually had the exact issue with my husband. Hospitalized 4 days to eventually learning after scoping he had busted capillaries. Scary, when he spit out blood for 3 of those days. This is not just animal related. It happens to humans also. Their are medical reasons why it happens to humans which is described more technical than pertaining to our horses. Naturally he wasn't prescribe Lasix to prevent this from happening again. For now I do believe that Lasix is the only solution offered that is effective on the US market today. I hope one day to see that change. I do feel comfortable that a solution is in the near future. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: South MS | flyingcbarranch - 2015-01-07 1:25 PM Interested in hearing your personal experiences pertaining to bleeding and how it's effected your horses performance and other related health issues caused by bleeding. I have a SEVERE bleeder. My vet and I had to work hard to get him balanced and to find a combo that worked to stop the bleeding. I run him on 5cc lasix and 5cc kentucky red - I use air power and electrolytes for him as well. I have to be careful about anything respiratory wise - etc. I cant tie out close to warm up due to dust - I dont keep much shavings in trailer due to dust - if he has the slightest cough/cold I turn him out til it totally resolves - he is worth the extra work
He is legged up and in top shape before I make any runs on him too - I havent had any other issues with him besides the bleeding
Edited by Lmichaels 2015-01-09 7:54 AM
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EIPH: Success or failure with your horses bleeding issues?