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| I have a 11 y/o gelding who in the past 1-2 years has developed ally issues. Come to find out he had been hurting. It took a while to figure out exactly what was going on but we think we have it taken care of now. He is fully recovered from his surgery and is ready to start running again. I realize it is going to take some time before he realizes that he's not hurting anymore. So he is still giving the ally issues. I am praying with some time this will get better. But to help, what are some exercises I can do with him to help him? He does not see the pattern at home. He knows his job and doesn't need tuning on the pattern. At a show I will walk him in and out of the ally and let him stand in the ally until I feel he has calmed down. I can feel his heart rate when in the ally. Once he calms down I will get off, un-cinch him and give him lovin's. This is really the only thing I could think of..so any advice is appreciated! He has gotten to the point that he has to be led into the ally before a run. He will start to back up and spin outside the ally and gets a little uncontrollable at that point. He doesn't get dangerous, kick, rear, or anything like that. Just refuses to go in. Once we are lined up with the ally and in the gate he is all go.
Thanks for any help!!
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
 
Location: Kansas | Have you tried just keeping him moving before its your turn to run? Such as make him walk/trot circles around the alley...but away from other horses. |
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  Fact Checker
Posts: 16572
Location: Displaced Iowegian | You ran him 1-2 YEARS while he WAS hurting....so it is VERY unrealistic to think he is going to get over it in a short time, if EVER. What you are doing is a good start. You could try exhibitioning him (walking or trotting) and not running him at several events. I, personally, would turn him out and not do anything except ride him for awhile....... |
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| I have a gelding that could have been gatey, but never did. I kept him away from the alley way and tried to time my turn to go in such that I could keep forward movement and never had to stop or slow down. I also started using the Oxy paste. I started to help with his recovery but another benefit for him was that he warmed up very quietly and was much quieter going in the gate but still fired. The paste seemed to help him keep using his brain instead of tensing up and just reacting. |
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| NJJ - 2015-01-14 1:36 PM
You ran him 1-2 YEARS while he WAS hurting....so it is VERY unrealistic to think he is going to get over it in a short time, if EVER. What you are doing is a good start. You could try exhibitioning him (walking or trotting) and not running him at several events. I, personally, would turn him out and not do anything except ride him for awhile.......
We went back and forth with vets, telling us their was nothing wrong with him. He developed his ally issues within 1-2 years of running, hence why I believe he was hurting all that time. We finally got with a specialist that found the issue. She told us he was the type of horse to 'hide' his lameness well. It was the other issues like the ally issues that came up over time that made us think something was going on other than him just being 'hot'. He has been off for a total of 8 months now. So he has had plenty of turn out time in my opinion. He has been ran one time so far since coming back, he made a awesome run but still gave ally issues (as expected). He does not get run every weekend, mostly every other weekend. I don't expect him to get over it in a short period of time, I realize this will be a long road and he is worth it to me. Just looking for some ways that I can work with him on this issue to help him along. Thanks! |
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| MO gal - 2015-01-14 1:53 PM
I have a gelding that could have been gatey, but never did. I kept him away from the alley way and tried to time my turn to go in such that I could keep forward movement and never had to stop or slow down. I also started using the Oxy paste. I started to help with his recovery but another benefit for him was that he warmed up very quietly and was much quieter going in the gate but still fired. The paste seemed to help him keep using his brain instead of tensing up and just reacting.
Which paste do you use? I actually run him on the jailbreak (he has ulcers also). |
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | NJJ - 2015-01-14 1:36 PM You ran him 1-2 YEARS while he WAS hurting....so it is VERY unrealistic to think he is going to get over it in a short time, if EVER. What you are doing is a good start. You could try exhibitioning him (walking or trotting) and not running him at several events. I, personally, would turn him out and not do anything except ride him for awhile.......
Agree. I would haul him to shows and just have him tied to the trailer, or ride around. No barrels unless walk/trot. This may take months and months, it's not a quick fix. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2013
Location: Piedmont, OK | If his pain issues have been resolved you could try something for calming. If you just need something when hauling Animal Element has In The Zone paste that you can give an hour or 2 before a run. Or if you need some thing for calming on a daily basis there is Raspberry Leaf. You just give 1 scoop twice a day. Both are available on www.AnimalElement.com and if you want the 10% off code it is BHW10 |
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 To the Left
Posts: 1865
Location: Florida | My old fashioned method is to make them feel safer in the arena than out. In other words, they will get more hurt messing around in the alley than running on in.
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Do NOT hide them from the alley or keep consistently moving while in the alley. Take him to open arenas, indoors, and even at a show during exhibitions when they are dragging and PARK him in the gate. Work him everywhere else and REST in the gate. Throw the reins away sit there and rest. Make the alley where he wants to be. Nice and easy no nerves. Let it get to the point where its nothing going in and out the gate. Don't be holding the reins either, get him broke and pitch the reins....don't be in his mouth. IF you watch troy or cody and most other futurity trainers they park them in the alley during drags. People think they are showing them the pen or "looking for points" no they are training that horse to like the alley and like his job! Make it a place of rest and where they want to be not a place to fret and fear.
Getting off an unclenching is good but I'd camp out at a local show all darn day on him in the alley. DO NOT HOLD PRESSURE in his mouth...if he steps off correct and pitch reins away again. Every drag on in there and stand. He will get to the point where he's relaxed and not caring. You will not be able to fix this at home or without the pressure and excitement of a show.
Edited by astreakinchic 2015-01-14 2:46 PM
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| Rustynailfl - 2015-01-14 12:55 PM
MO gal - 2015-01-14 1:53 PM
I have a gelding that could have been gatey, but never did. I kept him away from the alley way and tried to time my turn to go in such that I could keep forward movement and never had to stop or slow down. I also started using the Oxy paste. I started to help with his recovery but another benefit for him was that he warmed up very quietly and was much quieter going in the gate but still fired. The paste seemed to help him keep using his brain instead of tensing up and just reacting.
Which paste do you use? I actually run him on the jailbreak (he has ulcers also ).
I think it is the Boost gel. He liked it really well also. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 974
Location: USA | MO gal - 2015-01-14 3:17 PM Rustynailfl - 2015-01-14 12:55 PM MO gal - 2015-01-14 1:53 PM I have a gelding that could have been gatey, but never did. I kept him away from the alley way and tried to time my turn to go in such that I could keep forward movement and never had to stop or slow down. I also started using the Oxy paste. I started to help with his recovery but another benefit for him was that he warmed up very quietly and was much quieter going in the gate but still fired. The paste seemed to help him keep using his brain instead of tensing up and just reacting. Which paste do you use? I actually run him on the jailbreak (he has ulcers also ). I think it is the Boost gel. He liked it really well also.
I have a mare who is like this - has some alley issues and first barrel issues from being ran in pain. I've tried calming supplements and they never worked. I've tried letting her rest in the alley during drags and she's fine. She's fine except when she knows she has to go in, even during time only's. I'll look into the Boost gel, too. Maybe together we can think of a rehab program that works! |
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 Expert
Posts: 2154
Location: USA | I had the same issue. Ran my mare for a LONG time not realizing she was hurting. Had her injected and it took a while for her to know she wasn't hurting. It was a patience thing.She's a been there, done that, got the trophy kind of horse.
Did lots of long trotting and working barrels at home. Even though she didn't need tuning, I worked her on barrels so she could see at home that she wasn't hurting. Lots of trail riding too. She is totally different at home so took her to arenas to practice. I also would take her to races since she associated races with pain. Walked and trotted her around. During open arena, i would walk or trot her and have her randomly do a tight turn. I ran her and it took a couple races before she realized she wasn't hurting. She still acts up but now its to go IN the arena. |
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 Firecracker Dog Lover
Posts: 3175
| canrunnr - 2015-01-14 3:17 PM I had the same issue. Ran my mare for a LONG time not realizing she was hurting. Had her injected and it took a while for her to know she wasn't hurting. It was a patience thing.She's a been there, done that, got the trophy kind of horse.
Did lots of long trotting and working barrels at home. Even though she didn't need tuning, I worked her on barrels so she could see at home that she wasn't hurting. Lots of trail riding too. She is totally different at home so took her to arenas to practice. I also would take her to races since she associated races with pain. Walked and trotted her around. During open arena, i would walk or trot her and have her randomly do a tight turn. I ran her and it took a couple races before she realized she wasn't hurting. She still acts up but now its to go IN the arena.
THIS right here. |
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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | My old bay horse went through something similar, and we still have to consider alley issues when running him even though he feels like a million bucks now. I don't get on until they are 1-2 people away from me, I try to have a conversation with someone so I'm breathing while I'm on him, and once we head for the alley, we don't stop. If he takes off running, I just attempt to guide him rather than slow him down or stop him. I have had someone ride up beside me on another horse and that seems to keep him from stalling. It really is a never-ending thing and you just have to find a way to handle it.....if that is having someone walk you in for a while, I would do that. He may get over it, or he may always have that tendency in the back of his mind. I know now that if Joker refuses twice in a row, he is sore and needs time off & probably some vet work. Generally he doesn't run but a couple times a month and that schedule seems to be working for him. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| astreakinchic - 2015-01-14 2:20 PM
Do NOT hide them from the alley or keep consistently moving while in the alley. Take him to open arenas, indoors, and even at a show during exhibitions when they are dragging and PARK him in the gate. Work him everywhere else and REST in the gate. Throw the reins away sit there and rest. Make the alley where he wants to be. Nice and easy no nerves. Let it get to the point where its nothing going in and out the gate. Don't be holding the reins either, get him broke and pitch the reins....don't be in his mouth. IF you watch troy or cody and most other futurity trainers they park them in the alley during drags. People think they are showing them the pen or "looking for points" no they are training that horse to like the alley and like his job! Make it a place of rest and where they want to be not a place to fret and fear.
Getting off an unclenching is good but I'd camp out at a local show all darn day on him in the alley. DO NOT HOLD PRESSURE in his mouth...if he steps off correct and pitch reins away again. Every drag on in there and stand. He will get to the point where he's relaxed and not caring. You will not be able to fix this at home or without the pressure and excitement of a show.
I totally agree with this. We all train our horses to stand quietly in the alley.
The paint hose in my avatar has a very subtle case of EPM which several vets could not seem to diagnose. He got where he would spin around and no go in. He is fine now but will still try me. He tried that with my trainer and she whipped his butt. When I was riding him he did that with me and she told me to whip his butt. He gets on the muscle now a little but goes right in. There is a big difference between a butt whipping and beating one. We follow the 10 second rule. |
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 Maine-iac
Posts: 3334
Location: Got Lobsta? | astreakinchic - 2015-01-14 3:20 PM Do NOT hide them from the alley or keep consistently moving while in the alley. Take him to open arenas, indoors, and even at a show during exhibitions when they are dragging and PARK him in the gate. Work him everywhere else and REST in the gate. Throw the reins away sit there and rest. Make the alley where he wants to be. Nice and easy no nerves. Let it get to the point where its nothing going in and out the gate. Don't be holding the reins either, get him broke and pitch the reins....don't be in his mouth. IF you watch troy or cody and most other futurity trainers they park them in the alley during drags. People think they are showing them the pen or "looking for points" no they are training that horse to like the alley and like his job! Make it a place of rest and where they want to be not a place to fret and fear. Getting off an unclenching is good but I'd camp out at a local show all darn day on him in the alley. DO NOT HOLD PRESSURE in his mouth...if he steps off correct and pitch reins away again. Every drag on in there and stand. He will get to the point where he's relaxed and not caring. You will not be able to fix this at home or without the pressure and excitement of a show.
I am going to try this! |
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Expert
Posts: 2678
Location: Mi | astreakinchic - 2015-01-14 3:20 PM Do NOT hide them from the alley or keep consistently moving while in the alley. Take him to open arenas, indoors, and even at a show during exhibitions when they are dragging and PARK him in the gate. Work him everywhere else and REST in the gate. Throw the reins away sit there and rest. Make the alley where he wants to be. Nice and easy no nerves. Let it get to the point where its nothing going in and out the gate. Don't be holding the reins either, get him broke and pitch the reins....don't be in his mouth. IF you watch troy or cody and most other futurity trainers they park them in the alley during drags. People think they are showing them the pen or "looking for points" no they are training that horse to like the alley and like his job! Make it a place of rest and where they want to be not a place to fret and fear. Getting off an unclenching is good but I'd camp out at a local show all darn day on him in the alley. DO NOT HOLD PRESSURE in his mouth...if he steps off correct and pitch reins away again. Every drag on in there and stand. He will get to the point where he's relaxed and not caring. You will not be able to fix this at home or without the pressure and excitement of a show.
I have people comment al the time how quiet mine is in the ally, at the gate etc. Thats because the gate and ally is a place of rest. They work everywhere else and rests in the ally. |
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| Who wants to take mine and fix her up?? Lol i gave her 3 years off plus she had a foal in the meantime and i'm terrified to start working with her alley problems again.... probably not a good thing since my nerves will make her more nervous! What kind of pain/injuroies did yall's horses have?? Mine doesn't show any sign of lameness but she's recently trying to nip at my leg when i work her in a circle... never did this when I was running her though. She acts perfect when the vet looks her over. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| achildres - 2015-01-15 1:24 PM
Who wants to take mine and fix her up?? Lol i gave her 3 years off plus she had a foal in the meantime and i'm terrified to start working with her alley problems again.... probably not a good thing since my nerves will make her more nervous! What kind of pain/injuroies did yall's horses have?? Mine doesn't show any sign of lameness but she's recently trying to nip at my leg when i work her in a circle... never did this when I was running her though. She acts perfect when the vet looks her over.
Nipping at the leg is a sign of ulcers.
Also to the op, if the horse suffers from ulcers, I don't run till they are symptom free as with ulcers they are STILL in pain. |
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| cheryl makofka - 2015-01-15 1:44 PM
achildres - 2015-01-15 1:24 PM
Who wants to take mine and fix her up?? Lol i gave her 3 years off plus she had a foal in the meantime and i'm terrified to start working with her alley problems again.... probably not a good thing since my nerves will make her more nervous! What kind of pain/injuroies did yall's horses have?? Mine doesn't show any sign of lameness but she's recently trying to nip at my leg when i work her in a circle... never did this when I was running her though. She acts perfect when the vet looks her over.
Nipping at the leg is a sign of ulcers.
Also to the op, if the horse suffers from ulcers, I don't run till they are symptom free as with ulcers they are STILL in pain.
We treated her once i started riding her again (about 6 weeks ago), but she's a cribber, so I'm not sure if they ever went away. Guess we could scope her... |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| achildres - 2015-01-15 6:19 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-01-15 1:44 PM
achildres - 2015-01-15 1:24 PM
Who wants to take mine and fix her up?? Lol i gave her 3 years off plus she had a foal in the meantime and i'm terrified to start working with her alley problems again.... probably not a good thing since my nerves will make her more nervous! What kind of pain/injuroies did yall's horses have?? Mine doesn't show any sign of lameness but she's recently trying to nip at my leg when i work her in a circle... never did this when I was running her though. She acts perfect when the vet looks her over.
Nipping at the leg is a sign of ulcers.
Also to the op, if the horse suffers from ulcers, I don't run till they are symptom free as with ulcers they are STILL in pain.
We treated her once i started riding her again (about 6 weeks ago ), but she's a cribber, so I'm not sure if they ever went away. Guess we could scope her...
How long did you treat her for? And with what?
I treat with omeprazole for min 30 days.
Scopes can only get into the stomach, not many vets will test for hind gut ulcers, and these ones I haven't found any conclusive research on how to treat short term.
What are you treating her with when you take her to events?
My ulcer prone horses get omeprazole for nighttime runs the day of, overnight runs the day before, day or and day after |
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| cheryl makofka - 2015-01-15 2:44 PM
achildres - 2015-01-15 1:24 PM
Who wants to take mine and fix her up?? Lol i gave her 3 years off plus she had a foal in the meantime and i'm terrified to start working with her alley problems again.... probably not a good thing since my nerves will make her more nervous! What kind of pain/injuroies did yall's horses have?? Mine doesn't show any sign of lameness but she's recently trying to nip at my leg when i work her in a circle... never did this when I was running her though. She acts perfect when the vet looks her over.
Nipping at the leg is a sign of ulcers.
Also to the op, if the horse suffers from ulcers, I don't run till they are symptom free as with ulcers they are STILL in pain.
Mine also nipped at my leg, I treated with omeprazole and he has been on a daily supplement since then (which has been a year or so now) also gets the jailbreak before running. He no longer nips and seems to be much more comfortable in that area. He is also feeling better after his surgery. I believe now its just a 'mind' thing that we have to work and get past. :) |
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| She got omeprazole/ranitidine, i can't remember how long. And we treated her when i rode her 3 years ago but i don't remember what she was doing or what it was with... probably the same stuff.
My vet (who has known her for most of her life) said she's most likely having an attitude with me. Lol, which wouldn't surprise me.
What is jailbreak?
Edited by achildres 2015-01-16 11:35 AM
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The dreaded ally issues...