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 pressure dripper
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Location: the end of the rainbow | Can someone please educate me why you would teach your barrel horse a one rein stop and how it is more useful than just putting a nice plant their butt in the ground stop on them? I will be the first to admit that I do not understand the usefulness of a one rein stop on any horse but it seems contraindicative to teach a barrel horse that when I pick up one rein I want them to disengage their hip & stop. Someone please explain this to me. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | I will take a shot. The one rein stop has exactly the goal that you just mentioned, disengage the hip to stop forward movement. This should be the first stop used when starting a colt. Pulling with two hands on a horse that does not understand just creates resistance, an elevated nose and damaged bars. A great horseman once told me that when a colt puts it's nose in the air, his brains go right out his ass. If you have an unfinished older horse that is chargey, this is used to "circle them down" in a safe way. A horse that has not learned to stop with a body cue and a light rein will benefit from a one rein stop rather than create a damaged mouth, or an unsafe situation. It is not pretty on a mature horse, but it beats a runaway with a two handed death grip on a snaffle. | |
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  Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | A mentioned it's a great tool for riding Colts that don't have all the pieces of the foundation yet. And it's part of the foundation and part of the foundation for teaching the hip to move over - It's not the end product, it's a piece.
Even a finished horse that knows how to do a one rein stop well will still bend and move forward when you turn their head. The difference is how you place your legs, your seat, etc as they go along and progress in training. They don't just end the training at a one rein stop - they build on that control.
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 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | What Winwillows said and it also helps with lateral flexion. A horse needs to be soft laterally if your going to expect them to break vertically and then move into collection.
If the horse is soft bodied they are also going to be soft minded.
I used the one rein stop on one that his most favorite thing was to tuck tail and bolt on me. That manuever saved my hindend more times than I'd like to admit.
I still use it on this particular horse when I haul him. Sometimes he gets a little nervous and "tight" and as soon as I start with teh one rein stops, disengaging the hip, etc his mind just comes around so much faster and its not a fight.
I personally think its a great tool to have in the bag of tricks. | |
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 Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | I too will be the first to admit I didn't understand it at first either, but have really learned the value of using it. I learned it from flexing with Clinton Anderson videos. You take their control away when you disengage that hind in. | |
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Regular
Posts: 50
| Personally.....I don't agree with this at all. I've ridden and worked extensively with
cutting trainers most of my life and there should never be any reason to disengage a horses hip, especially in a barrel horse, I've been running and training barrel horses longer than cutting and I found that my skills became extensively better when I applied the same training methods from cutting horses to barrel horses. They know how to use their body better, stay more correct, and drive from the hip. This is where the power comes from people, a barrel horse who engages and works from the hip is way quicker and more powerful in a turn, as opposed to a horse that is hollowing their back and not driving through a turn, they take more steps around a barrel. And a horse who has the hip engage and is driving from the back end has the power leaving the turn therefore not having to regain any speed in between the barrels, because they never lost momentum with any extra steps. The barrel horses that I currently train, ride, run, futurity, all work with this method, a dear friend of mine rode reined cow horses and cutting horses for most of her life until she could afford to begin her own breeding and training program. The only reason she let's me work with her and ride the horses she produces and sells is because I know the methodology and can apply the same riding style as her. When you teach a horse to stop, you are not simply pulling on their face and asking them to stop, as a rider you should be sitting in your seat, and collecting the nose at the same time. Most cutting/ reined cow horses know that when their rider sits, without any rein movement this means to stop. Same concept with a barrel horse, you sit for your turn, your horse should gather under themselves and keep gathered in a turn, therefore the hip engaged, and therefore power. Pulling on one rein, taking the horses nose, does not teach them to handle their body correctly, it flings their hip out and away from the body, disengaging it, therefore loosing power. I know everyone has their own methodology, and I try not to speak badly of anyone's opinions, as I've found there are no right and wrongs in this sport! But just my opinion and how I do things!  | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | DaArrow - 2015-01-27 4:57 PM Personally.....I don't agree with this at all. I've ridden and worked extensively with cutting trainers most of my life and there should never be any reason to disengage a horses hip, especially in a barrel horse, I've been running and training barrel horses longer than cutting and I found that my skills became extensively better when I applied the same training methods from cutting horses to barrel horses. They know how to use their body better, stay more correct, and drive from the hip. This is where the power comes from people, a barrel horse who engages and works from the hip is way quicker and more powerful in a turn, as opposed to a horse that is hollowing their back and not driving through a turn, they take more steps around a barrel. And a horse who has the hip engage and is driving from the back end has the power leaving the turn therefore not having to regain any speed in between the barrels, because they never lost momentum with any extra steps. The barrel horses that I currently train, ride, run, futurity, all work with this method, a dear friend of mine rode reined cow horses and cutting horses for most of her life until she could afford to begin her own breeding and training program. The only reason she let's me work with her and ride the horses she produces and sells is because I know the methodology and can apply the same riding style as her. When you teach a horse to stop, you are not simply pulling on their face and asking them to stop, as a rider you should be sitting in your seat, and collecting the nose at the same time. Most cutting/ reined cow horses know that when their rider sits, without any rein movement this means to stop. Same concept with a barrel horse, you sit for your turn, your horse should gather under themselves and keep gathered in a turn, therefore the hip engaged, and therefore power. Pulling on one rein, taking the horses nose, does not teach them to handle their body correctly, it flings their hip out and away from the body, disengaging it, therefore loosing power. I know everyone has their own methodology, and I try not to speak badly of anyone's opinions, as I've found there are no right and wrongs in this sport! But just my opinion and how I do things!
I totally agree and I am a one rein stop hater. | |
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Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | DaArrow - 2015-01-27 4:57 PM Personally.....I don't agree with this at all. I've ridden and worked extensively with cutting trainers most of my life and there should never be any reason to disengage a horses hip, especially in a barrel horse, I've been running and training barrel horses longer than cutting and I found that my skills became extensively better when I applied the same training methods from cutting horses to barrel horses. They know how to use their body better, stay more correct, and drive from the hip. This is where the power comes from people, a barrel horse who engages and works from the hip is way quicker and more powerful in a turn, as opposed to a horse that is hollowing their back and not driving through a turn, they take more steps around a barrel. And a horse who has the hip engage and is driving from the back end has the power leaving the turn therefore not having to regain any speed in between the barrels, because they never lost momentum with any extra steps. The barrel horses that I currently train, ride, run, futurity, all work with this method, a dear friend of mine rode reined cow horses and cutting horses for most of her life until she could afford to begin her own breeding and training program. The only reason she let's me work with her and ride the horses she produces and sells is because I know the methodology and can apply the same riding style as her. When you teach a horse to stop, you are not simply pulling on their face and asking them to stop, as a rider you should be sitting in your seat, and collecting the nose at the same time. Most cutting/ reined cow horses know that when their rider sits, without any rein movement this means to stop. Same concept with a barrel horse, you sit for your turn, your horse should gather under themselves and keep gathered in a turn, therefore the hip engaged, and therefore power. Pulling on one rein, taking the horses nose, does not teach them to handle their body correctly, it flings their hip out and away from the body, disengaging it, therefore loosing power. I know everyone has their own methodology, and I try not to speak badly of anyone's opinions, as I've found there are no right and wrongs in this sport! But just my opinion and how I do things!
Edited by Fairweather 2015-01-27 5:50 PM
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 A Gopher's Worst Nightmare
Posts: 5094
Location: Southern Oregon | My good friend use to teach the rein stop to EVERYONE and ANYTHING she ever rode or worked with. I personally have no use for it. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | It seems like this are two different discussions here. If the question is why teach or use a one rein stop, that is simple. It is the first stop a colt learns with the least chance of scaring them, or damaging the soft bars in a young mouth if you start a horse in a snaffle bit. At that stage it is a safety issue for both the horse and the rider. On the other hand, a broke horse should stop with collection and its butt under it on a light even rein and body cue with no drama. How you get from one to another is simply a matter of proper training. As a old cutter, and California bridle horse guy, I would never use a one rein stop on a broke horse. My horses are way past the need for one well before they are three years old. While there is a time to disengage the hip for many tasks, I can't think of a time you would do that while actually running barrels or showing a cutting horse (since you would need to use the rein to do so, and that would be a reining point), but it is sure nice when doing a gate. So, to answer the original question, this has value to safely stop a green or untrained horse.
Edited by winwillows 2015-01-27 6:02 PM
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | I'm old and we did use a one rein stop in emergencies only. I want a horse to stop to the word whoa and/or sitting deep in your saddle. The word whoa was taught in a roundpen and I'm talking all the way back as far as I can remember. I would watch my dad drive the young horses in the roundpen in 1955. Very few times in my lifetime did I have to take an inside rein and do a "one rein stop" to get a horse stopped. Different strokes for different folks. It's something that way too many people end up doing it wrong and end up with a mess. JMHO | |
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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | I think it is a great training aid.........or tool.......especially with young horses.....so I work a lot of mine using the flexing method and the one rein stop is very helpful if you get into a issue with one.........otherwise I like mine to stop with body language........ | |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | I do it as an emergency safety measure. They can't bolt or take off bucking if their head is cranked around. | |
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 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | Agree, I use it for emergency safety. I want all my horses to know it just in case, and I've used it before. Sometimes I use it as a training tool as well when someone gets bratty, but I teach it/use it for emergency safety. But I totally stop the "normal" way if I can, and almost always can.
Edited by mtcanchazer 2015-01-27 8:42 PM
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| I don't like one rein stop. I'm not going to use it on my colts. I never, ever, ever, want them to associate giving to pressure as a punishment or being put in a bind where forward motion stops. I don't get on my colts until they have a really good handle on the ground, and understand basic reining (turn, stop, turn) from the ground with driving reins. They understand pressure on their sides as a signal to move their shoulders and straighten or bend their rib cage from on the ground. I feel like if I don't have my colts broke enough that in an emergency I can't stop them without them tucking at the poll and giving me a good whoah, I've failed and shouldn't be on them.
-Case in point- Went to ride at a friends tonight, she has some new horses that were blowing past the arena and playing in the pasture. They ran past my 4 year old, who was pretty prancy and full of himself. He lunged forward, then lunged sideways, forgetting I was there completely and wanting to go play. I held him easily with the bit, and he tucked his nose and came back to me. No bruising, no scary one rein stop.
I don't know if anyone has been on a runaway horse. Go ahead and take that suckers head and put it on your knee. They keep running for a while-sideways, groping out with those front feet. If they stumble, they're going down, because their balance is gone. On a complete runaway without the room to let them run it out, sometimes this is your only option. I've only ever used it to think about God and pray.
A spooking horse that is truly spooking and terrified needs to be allowed to get away for a distance. Its just not safe to grab his face and throw him off balance, because he could really hurt you in his terror and inherent need to get away.
The one rein stop is truly just a way to take a horse's feet away from him. I personally like him to have his feet, so he doesn't fall off of them because of something I've done. I like my neck unbroken. I like a really nice, broke face and an understanding of how the ribcage and shoulder work. If I can move his ribs and shoulders, I can handle anything he's got.
Edited for a their/they're/there situation. :)
Edited by classicpotatochip 2015-01-27 8:46 PM
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | classicpotatochip - 2015-01-27 8:44 PM I don't like one rein stop. I'm not going to use it on my colts. I never, ever, ever, want them to associate giving to pressure as a punishment or being put in a bind where forward motion stops. I don't get on my colts until they have a really good handle on the ground, and understand basic reining (turn, stop, turn) from the ground with driving reins. They understand pressure on their sides as a signal to move their shoulders and straighten or bend their rib cage from on the ground. I feel like if I don't have my colts broke enough that in an emergency I can't stop them without them tucking at the poll and giving me a good whoah, I've failed and shouldn't be on them. -Case in point- Went to ride at a friends tonight, she has some new horses that were blowing past the arena and playing in the pasture. They ran past my 4 year old, who was pretty prancy and full of himself. He lunged forward, then lunged sideways, forgetting I was there completely and wanting to go play. I held him easily with the bit, and he tucked his nose and came back to me. No bruising, no scary one rein stop. I don't know if anyone has been on a runaway horse. Go ahead and take that suckers head and put it on your knee. They keep running for a while-sideways, groping out with those front feet. If they stumble, they're going down, because their balance is gone. On a complete runaway without the room to let them run it out, sometimes this is your only option. I've only ever used it to think about God and pray. A spooking horse that is truly spooking and terrified needs to be allowed to get away for a distance. Its just not safe to grab his face and throw him off balance, because he could really hurt you in his terror and inherent need to get away. The one rein stop is truly just a way to take a horse's feet away from him. I personally like him to have his feet, so he doesn't fall off of them because of something I've done. I like my neck unbroken. I like a really nice, broke face and an understanding of how the ribcage and shoulder work. If I can move his ribs and shoulders, I can handle anything he's got. Edited for a their/they're/there situation. :) You put it into words I couldn't. I agree 100%.
Edited by Nevertooold 2015-01-27 9:40 PM
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pressure dripper
Posts: 8699
Location: the end of the rainbow | So I guess you guys have explained why I'm not a fan. I'm old, my background in riding has not taught me a good reason as to why I would want to disengage the hip and loose control of my horses feet & last but not least the only colt starting guru whose practices I have ever really used is Ray Hunt (and I know I missed a boatload of the stuff that man tried to teach).
For those of you that are fans, glad it works for you but none of you have convinced me as to what's so great about it. I do understand the need to use it on occassion but don't believe it's the best way to teach either a stop or lateral flexion. Thank you all for taking the time to try to explain your take on the manuever.
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | willrodeo4food - 2015-01-27 9:46 PM
So I guess you guys have explained why I'm not a fan. I'm old, my background in riding has not taught me a good reason as to why I would want to disengage the hip and loose control of my horses feet & last but not least the only colt starting guru whose practices I have ever really used is Ray Hunt (and I know I missed a boatload of the stuff that man tried to teach).
For those of you that are fans, glad it works for you but none of you have convinced me as to what's so great about it. I do understand the need to use it on occassion but don't believe it's the best way to teach either a stop or lateral flexion. Thank you all for taking the time to try to explain your take on the manuever.
As a person who has started a lot of colts with Ray, (some of the ones that I rode were his), I can tell you that one of the first things we did, once we got them moving out, was be sure that they could be stopped by disengaging the drive. This in no way took the front end away. If fact, it shifted all power to the front, and redirected the energy into an area where it can be more safely controlled. Done properly, I have never seen a horse even come close to falling over doing this. Once again, this is a specific practice to avoid a potentially dangerous situation for both the horse and the rider when a very green horse does not yet understand a more advanced rein. I do not use this once I have moved the horse on, but this is a safety release valve that every green rider and kid should know when things go south.
Edited by winwillows 2015-01-28 11:42 AM
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Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | winwillows - 2015-01-28 11:30 AM willrodeo4food - 2015-01-27 9:46 PM So I guess you guys have explained why I'm not a fan. I'm old, my background in riding has not taught me a good reason as to why I would want to disengage the hip and loose control of my horses feet & last but not least the only colt starting guru whose practices I have ever really used is Ray Hunt (and I know I missed a boatload of the stuff that man tried to teach).
For those of you that are fans, glad it works for you but none of you have convinced me as to what's so great about it. I do understand the need to use it on occassion but don't believe it's the best way to teach either a stop or lateral flexion. Thank you all for taking the time to try to explain your take on the manuever.
As a person who has started a lot of colts with Ray, (some of the ones that I rode were his ), I can tell you that one of the first things we did, once we got them moving out, was be sure that they could be stopped by disengaging the drive. This in no way took the front end away. If fact, it shifted all power to the front, and redirected the energy into an area where it can be more safely controlled. Done properly, I have never seen a horse even come close to falling over doing this. Once again, this is a specific practice to avoid a potentially dangerous situation for both the horse and the rider when a very green horse does not yet understand a more advanced rein. I do not use this once I have moved the horse on, but this is a safety release valve that every green rider and kid should know when things go south.
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pressure dripper
Posts: 8699
Location: the end of the rainbow | I completely agree with you Win. I'm still not understanding why many barrel racers are now wanting to make this their go to move. Like you said in your second comment on this thread, not really a move you're going to do often with a broke horse and not something you're gonna need in your barrel run. | |
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 I Chore in Chucks
Posts: 2882
Location: MD | I was kind of under the impression that one rein stops were for emergency purposes.
I personally like my horses to circle to slow down and stop or be able to plant their butt in the ground when I ask. I kind of have that requirement that my horses have to have brakes and good ones. That would scare me if I don't have a back-up plan if my first two methods of stopping aren't happening.... | |
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 I Sell Dreams
Posts: 1654
Location: Freestone TX | I have no use for it. As someone stated earlier, my horses are so broke on the ground, when you get on them, you THINK stop in the saddle from day 1 and they do it without the reins. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1446
Location: California | If you think a horse properly disengaging their hind quarters has no forward movement with their front quarters, you are either teaching it wrong or have a misconception. | |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I don't teach or use a one-rein stop. I don't know if my colt-starter does or not, but he puts a nice correct soft stop on them in their first 30 days and it stays with them.
I did use a version of it on a runaway once, but I engaged his hind end instead of kicking it out from under him. I got kicked, broke my tib/fib in two, screamed, scared horse, he ran off, my broken leg was flopping, we were almost to the road and I was about to pass out. I made myself stop screaming long enough to take my left rein fairly hard and kick his butt into my hand with my good right leg. He stopped like a calf horse. I had trained that horse to spur stop because he was always weird about his head. I didn't realize it would be a life-saving emergency brake one day. LOL | |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | NoNoBadGirl - 2015-01-28 12:50 PM I have no use for it. As someone stated earlier, my horses are so broke on the ground, when you get on them, you THINK stop in the saddle from day 1 and they do it without the reins.
This is exactly how my dad use to train one and that was back in the dark ages..He would do all the ground work and when we got on them they had all the buttons and we would put the miles on them to get them ready for the show ring. | |
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The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | winwillows - 2015-01-28 11:30 AM willrodeo4food - 2015-01-27 9:46 PM So I guess you guys have explained why I'm not a fan. I'm old, my background in riding has not taught me a good reason as to why I would want to disengage the hip and loose control of my horses feet & last but not least the only colt starting guru whose practices I have ever really used is Ray Hunt (and I know I missed a boatload of the stuff that man tried to teach).
For those of you that are fans, glad it works for you but none of you have convinced me as to what's so great about it. I do understand the need to use it on occassion but don't believe it's the best way to teach either a stop or lateral flexion. Thank you all for taking the time to try to explain your take on the manuever.
As a person who has started a lot of colts with Ray, (some of the ones that I rode were his ), I can tell you that one of the first things we did, once we got them moving out, was be sure that they could be stopped by disengaging the drive. This in no way took the front end away. If fact, it shifted all power to the front, and redirected the energy into an area where it can be more safely controlled. Done properly, I have never seen a horse even come close to falling over doing this. Once again, this is a specific practice to avoid a potentially dangerous situation for both the horse and the rider when a very green horse does not yet understand a more advanced rein. I do not use this once I have moved the horse on, but this is a safety release valve that every green rider and kid should know when things go south.
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 Member
Posts: 21
| WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2015-01-28 2:59 PM
winwillows - 2015-01-28 11:30 AM willrodeo4food - 2015-01-27 9:46 PM So I guess you guys have explained why I'm not a fan. I'm old, my background in riding has not taught me a good reason as to why I would want to disengage the hip and loose control of my horses feet & last but not least the only colt starting guru whose practices I have ever really used is Ray Hunt (and I know I missed a boatload of the stuff that man tried to teach).
For those of you that are fans, glad it works for you but none of you have convinced me as to what's so great about it. I do understand the need to use it on occassion but don't believe it's the best way to teach either a stop or lateral flexion. Thank you all for taking the time to try to explain your take on the manuever.
As a person who has started a lot of colts with Ray, (some of the ones that I rode were his ), I can tell you that one of the first things we did, once we got them moving out, was be sure that they could be stopped by disengaging the drive. This in no way took the front end away. If fact, it shifted all power to the front, and redirected the energy into an area where it can be more safely controlled. Done properly, I have never seen a horse even come close to falling over doing this. Once again, this is a specific practice to avoid a potentially dangerous situation for both the horse and the rider when a very green horse does not yet understand a more advanced rein. I do not use this once I have moved the horse on, but this is a safety release valve that every green rider and kid should know when things go south.
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 I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
Location: Pacific Northwest | I think it works good for horses that want to be bracy/have a hard mouth and pull on you. I've only started one horse from scratch so I can't speak from experience on that point...she was kind of born broke and learned to stop like a "broke" horse I guess you could say. She already knew the word woah meant stop so I would just sit, say woah, apply rein pressure and back her up a few steps after she stopped.
The horse I used a one-rein stop on the most was one that was extremely chargey but also very hard mouthed. He tried to run through my hands constantly. I probably one-reined stopped that sucker 100+ times per ride for the first month or two until he finally figured out that pulling against me wasn't getting him anywhere. Planting him in the ground and backing him off my hands didn't work because it was a pulling match to get him to stop.
I will say, I never once thought it felt like he was going to fall over? He did it pretty fast too (because he was usually already trying to go fast, and the horse just did everything fast anyway) and he never felt even remotely off-balanced.
I don't think anyone should be adamant against using one because I think that's where as horsemen you can hit a barrier...unless something is abusive, I never "refuse" to try any training technique. But I think there is a time and place for a one-rein stop. I know a girl that would one-rein stop her horse like 20 times per arena lap because she "thought" the horse was going to act up, when really the rider herself was just terrified of being on a horse.
And I don't think anyone out there thinks you should teach a one-rein stop in PLACE of a normal stop...of the trainers I know that are advocates of a one-rein stop I've never heard them say to only teach a one-rein stop and never stop them like normal. But when I see riders on hot, nervous horses repeatedly slamming them into the ground and back-peddaling them 20 steps, that doesn't seem very productive either. | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| willrodeo4food - 2015-01-27 9:46 PM
So I guess you guys have explained why I'm not a fan. I'm old, my background in riding has not taught me a good reason as to why I would want to disengage the hip and loose control of my horses feet & last but not least the only colt starting guru whose practices I have ever really used is Ray Hunt (and I know I missed a boatload of the stuff that man tried to teach).
For those of you that are fans, glad it works for you but none of you have convinced me as to what's so great about it. I do understand the need to use it on occassion but don't believe it's the best way to teach either a stop or lateral flexion. Thank you all for taking the time to try to explain your take on the manuever.
I am a Ray Hunt fan as well, and the person who starts my colts rides the same way.
Ray does teach the one rein stop, he also teaches disengaging the hind end. These two movements are needed to further their education.
Ray did more on their back then on the ground, the clinics I went to he never really spent time teaching them to ground drive, he did most from their back.
Horses have a high flight response, so if they start to panic, they stick their head up nose out and run, sometimes a horse will run blind. If this occurs, everyone who has ever had this experience can attest to saying pulling directly back on their reins causes the horse to brace against it and most won't stop.
A one rein stop, you pull on one rein like you are turning to achieve the control, you start circling the horse till the horse calms down starts circling until you regain control or they stop.
Also during the initial stages of training, the first thing you teach a horse is to turn, not to stop, as you will have more success teaching them to respond to pressure on one side versus pressure from both, as direct pressure from both can cause a horse to initiate the flight response.
As for the person who says cutters don't disengage the hind end, you may be missing the first step.
To set a horse up for a successful turn on the hind end during the initial stages is to move their hind end "out of gear" so they are no longer driving with the hind end and the pivot foot is set in the ground. Then the rider uses leg and reins to bring around the front end to complete the pivot or the spin. Once completed the hind end will engage and be the driving force.
To disengage the hind end most will move the leg back towards the cinch apply pressure to move the hind end over generally one step.
As the horse gets more broke, they will automatically complete this step without cues, (muscle memory)
Disengaging the hind end is also used on a lot of ranches with opening gates, I know I have a few gates where I have to turn on the forearm to open and shut gates without struggling.
In barrel racing we use the cues for disengaging the hind end as well. One example is when you are initially starting with a colt, and the foundation is there, you either stop or collect at the rate point, if your horse is not in perfect position, most will disengage the hind end and move it to the ideal place to create the muscle memory and to reinforce position and placement of the horse.
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Expert
Posts: 1446
Location: California | cheryl makofka - 2015-01-29 10:48 AM willrodeo4food - 2015-01-27 9:46 PM So I guess you guys have explained why I'm not a fan. I'm old, my background in riding has not taught me a good reason as to why I would want to disengage the hip and loose control of my horses feet & last but not least the only colt starting guru whose practices I have ever really used is Ray Hunt (and I know I missed a boatload of the stuff that man tried to teach).
For those of you that are fans, glad it works for you but none of you have convinced me as to what's so great about it. I do understand the need to use it on occassion but don't believe it's the best way to teach either a stop or lateral flexion. Thank you all for taking the time to try to explain your take on the manuever.
I am a Ray Hunt fan as well, and the person who starts my colts rides the same way. Ray does teach the one rein stop, he also teaches disengaging the hind end. These two movements are needed to further their education. Ray did more on their back then on the ground, the clinics I went to he never really spent time teaching them to ground drive, he did most from their back. Horses have a high flight response, so if they start to panic, they stick their head up nose out and run, sometimes a horse will run blind. If this occurs, everyone who has ever had this experience can attest to saying pulling directly back on their reins causes the horse to brace against it and most won't stop. A one rein stop, you pull on one rein like you are turning to achieve the control, you start circling the horse till the horse calms down starts circling until you regain control or they stop. Also during the initial stages of training, the first thing you teach a horse is to turn, not to stop, as you will have more success teaching them to respond to pressure on one side versus pressure from both, as direct pressure from both can cause a horse to initiate the flight response. As for the person who says cutters don't disengage the hind end, you may be missing the first step. To set a horse up for a successful turn on the hind end during the initial stages is to move their hind end "out of gear" so they are no longer driving with the hind end and the pivot foot is set in the ground. Then the rider uses leg and reins to bring around the front end to complete the pivot or the spin. Once completed the hind end will engage and be the driving force. To disengage the hind end most will move the leg back towards the cinch apply pressure to move the hind end over generally one step. As the horse gets more broke, they will automatically complete this step without cues, (muscle memory ) Disengaging the hind end is also used on a lot of ranches with opening gates, I know I have a few gates where I have to turn on the forearm to open and shut gates without struggling. In barrel racing we use the cues for disengaging the hind end as well. One example is when you are initially starting with a colt, and the foundation is there, you either stop or collect at the rate point, if your horse is not in perfect position, most will disengage the hind end and move it to the ideal place to create the muscle memory and to reinforce position and placement of the horse.
Also, navicular is 100% preventable, and I think that is reason enough for a barrel racer to disengage their horses. | |
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pressure dripper
Posts: 8699
Location: the end of the rainbow | cheryl makofka - 2015-01-29 10:48 AM willrodeo4food - 2015-01-27 9:46 PM So I guess you guys have explained why I'm not a fan. I'm old, my background in riding has not taught me a good reason as to why I would want to disengage the hip and loose control of my horses feet & last but not least the only colt starting guru whose practices I have ever really used is Ray Hunt (and I know I missed a boatload of the stuff that man tried to teach).
For those of you that are fans, glad it works for you but none of you have convinced me as to what's so great about it. I do understand the need to use it on occassion but don't believe it's the best way to teach either a stop or lateral flexion. Thank you all for taking the time to try to explain your take on the manuever.
I am a Ray Hunt fan as well, and the person who starts my colts rides the same way. Ray does teach the one rein stop, he also teaches disengaging the hind end. These two movements are needed to further their education. Ray did more on their back then on the ground, the clinics I went to he never really spent time teaching them to ground drive, he did most from their back. Horses have a high flight response, so if they start to panic, they stick their head up nose out and run, sometimes a horse will run blind. If this occurs, everyone who has ever had this experience can attest to saying pulling directly back on their reins causes the horse to brace against it and most won't stop. A one rein stop, you pull on one rein like you are turning to achieve the control, you start circling the horse till the horse calms down starts circling until you regain control or they stop. Also during the initial stages of training, the first thing you teach a horse is to turn, not to stop, as you will have more success teaching them to respond to pressure on one side versus pressure from both, as direct pressure from both can cause a horse to initiate the flight response. As for the person who says cutters don't disengage the hind end, you may be missing the first step. To set a horse up for a successful turn on the hind end during the initial stages is to move their hind end "out of gear" so they are no longer driving with the hind end and the pivot foot is set in the ground. Then the rider uses leg and reins to bring around the front end to complete the pivot or the spin. Once completed the hind end will engage and be the driving force. To disengage the hind end most will move the leg back towards the cinch apply pressure to move the hind end over generally one step. As the horse gets more broke, they will automatically complete this step without cues, (muscle memory ) Disengaging the hind end is also used on a lot of ranches with opening gates, I know I have a few gates where I have to turn on the forearm to open and shut gates without struggling. In barrel racing we use the cues for disengaging the hind end as well. One example is when you are initially starting with a colt, and the foundation is there, you either stop or collect at the rate point, if your horse is not in perfect position, most will disengage the hind end and move it to the ideal place to create the muscle memory and to reinforce position and placement of the horse.
I think I am comparing apples to oranges.
Edited by willrodeo4food 2015-01-30 8:01 PM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| willrodeo4food - 2015-01-30 7:56 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-01-29 10:48 AM willrodeo4food - 2015-01-27 9:46 PM So I guess you guys have explained why I'm not a fan. I'm old, my background in riding has not taught me a good reason as to why I would want to disengage the hip and loose control of my horses feet & last but not least the only colt starting guru whose practices I have ever really used is Ray Hunt (and I know I missed a boatload of the stuff that man tried to teach).
For those of you that are fans, glad it works for you but none of you have convinced me as to what's so great about it. I do understand the need to use it on occassion but don't believe it's the best way to teach either a stop or lateral flexion. Thank you all for taking the time to try to explain your take on the manuever.
I am a Ray Hunt fan as well, and the person who starts my colts rides the same way. Ray does teach the one rein stop, he also teaches disengaging the hind end. These two movements are needed to further their education. Ray did more on their back then on the ground, the clinics I went to he never really spent time teaching them to ground drive, he did most from their back. Horses have a high flight response, so if they start to panic, they stick their head up nose out and run, sometimes a horse will run blind. If this occurs, everyone who has ever had this experience can attest to saying pulling directly back on their reins causes the horse to brace against it and most won't stop. A one rein stop, you pull on one rein like you are turning to achieve the control, you start circling the horse till the horse calms down starts circling until you regain control or they stop. Also during the initial stages of training, the first thing you teach a horse is to turn, not to stop, as you will have more success teaching them to respond to pressure on one side versus pressure from both, as direct pressure from both can cause a horse to initiate the flight response. As for the person who says cutters don't disengage the hind end, you may be missing the first step. To set a horse up for a successful turn on the hind end during the initial stages is to move their hind end "out of gear" so they are no longer driving with the hind end and the pivot foot is set in the ground. Then the rider uses leg and reins to bring around the front end to complete the pivot or the spin. Once completed the hind end will engage and be the driving force. To disengage the hind end most will move the leg back towards the cinch apply pressure to move the hind end over generally one step. As the horse gets more broke, they will automatically complete this step without cues, (muscle memory ) Disengaging the hind end is also used on a lot of ranches with opening gates, I know I have a few gates where I have to turn on the forearm to open and shut gates without struggling. In barrel racing we use the cues for disengaging the hind end as well. One example is when you are initially starting with a colt, and the foundation is there, you either stop or collect at the rate point, if your horse is not in perfect position, most will disengage the hind end and move it to the ideal place to create the muscle memory and to reinforce position and placement of the horse.
I think I am comparing apples to oranges.
The people you see do the one rein stop may be over exaggerating it.
And yes I have had a colt completely freak out and to regain control I pulled one rein to make him turn in a circle, we kept turning till he settled down. He did the as you say Whirley bird, some of the time, he started pivoting on his front end, and the cue I had when he settled down was he stopped and gave in to the pressure, so yes his head was close to my knee. My hand this entire time was secured to my knee, I don't pull any more, nor do I pull any less.
How I was taught and how my horses are started is the horse gives to the pressure of the rein, but do not more their feet to rein pressure.
To get a horse to move in any direction it comes from the seat and legs. The reins are there for the most part emergency use. Hence when my colt got excited I used one rein to turn him in a circle till he stopped. My legs were not moving, and my but was deep in the saddle cueing him to stop.
Once my horses are broke, I'm talking 30 days, I don't use the one rein stop, the horses have enough education to stop properly, even when they freak out.
Edited to add, I have one mare I got her back from the trainer after the first 30 rides, if I pressured her up too much, and she couldn't handle it, she would actually turn in circles till she stopped with her nose touching my foot on a loose rein. This was her comfort zone, this is how she regrouped. In all the horses I have ever had, she is the only one who would automatically do it. She no longer does this, but thought I would share
Edited by cheryl makofka 2015-01-30 9:28 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2122
Location: The Great Northwest | freddymac - 2015-01-29 12:56 PM WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2015-01-28 2:59 PM winwillows - 2015-01-28 11:30 AM willrodeo4food - 2015-01-27 9:46 PM So I guess you guys have explained why I'm not a fan. I'm old, my background in riding has not taught me a good reason as to why I would want to disengage the hip and loose control of my horses feet & last but not least the only colt starting guru whose practices I have ever really used is Ray Hunt (and I know I missed a boatload of the stuff that man tried to teach).
For those of you that are fans, glad it works for you but none of you have convinced me as to what's so great about it. I do understand the need to use it on occassion but don't believe it's the best way to teach either a stop or lateral flexion. Thank you all for taking the time to try to explain your take on the manuever.
As a person who has started a lot of colts with Ray, (some of the ones that I rode were his ), I can tell you that one of the first things we did, once we got them moving out, was be sure that they could be stopped by disengaging the drive. This in no way took the front end away. If fact, it shifted all power to the front, and redirected the energy into an area where it can be more safely controlled. Done properly, I have never seen a horse even come close to falling over doing this. Once again, this is a specific practice to avoid a potentially dangerous situation for both the horse and the rider when a very green horse does not yet understand a more advanced rein. I do not use this once I have moved the horse on, but this is a safety release valve that every green rider and kid should know when things go south.
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 Sexy Bee Yacht
Posts: 5849
Location: WA | I always start colts on the ground ground driving. They know what whoa means when I get on. I tried to one rein stop my older mare one day and she was confused as hell. It MIGHT work on a run away situation, but I do remember my dad always telling me growing up if you get in a bind pull on one rein. I agree with whoever said it is a good way to flip one on their side until they have been really trained in it.
I had someone ask me to work their horse on the pattern one time. They one rein stopped the crap out of this poor horse and even just standing there was always flexing them. I went into the barrel and lifted my rein to turn and the dang horse started spinning on the forehand. After awhile he finally learned to follow his nose, but the one rein stop stuff is not for me. If others want to do it, more power to you, I won't judge you for it.
When we had the 4H club I did see a ton of gamers in other clubs one rein stop to finish a run because of the ridiculous stopping distance. It just seemed hard on their front end to me. | |
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One rein stop