|
|
 Veteran
Posts: 288
 
| What is everyone's thoughts on not allowing a person to enter a race you produce. A gal around here is very high conflict, spreads lies just for the pleasure of hurting others and is very confrontational. I personally do not want her running at my races. Has any of you that have produced races ever told someone NO. What happened after? I'm just curious if this ever happens |
|
| |
|
I'm Over It!!
Posts: 2830
 
| What rule in your production do you intend to inforce to prohibit someone from running due to their personality traits?
If you invoke the, we reserve the right to prohibit you from entering at any time for any reason at the sole disgression of the producer rule, you may not get very many customers. |
|
| |
|
 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 304
Location: Up and over to the right | Agreed, abusing horses is one thing (and a reason) not liking someone isn't enough of a reason. People who don't like her won't show up and won't come back. Those who don't care will stay. You can talk to her personally but I doubt you can prevent her from showing up. |
|
| |
|
 Northern Exposure
Posts: 3919
Location: Wasagaming, Manitoba, Canada | Personally I think your time and energy can be invested in other things rather then ostracizing someone you've never directly had a problem with.
Life is too short and you may never have an issue with her. If you make a point to personally attack (which banning her from the race would be) then you will have created the issue. I'd just let it be. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2685
| My thoughts are, if she is as bad as you say, she will do something that condones getting banned. I don't feel it is a good idea to ban someone because they are known to cause problems. Let her come and when she does something terrible, ban her then. I have heard of people getting banned and it not being a huge deal because that person did something to deserve it, not just because the producer had heard bad things about them.
Good luck! |
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1118
Location: The South | I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think you can legally tell someone they can't enter just because they've been known to cause problems. I think you'll have to wait for her to actually do something wrong and then ban her. |
|
| |
|
 The BHW Book Worm
Posts: 1768
| I dont think it you should ban someone just because you dont like them but if they are beligerant being disruptive like starting fights, abusing animals or openly abusing people at your races then that would give you merit. |
|
| |
|
  Playing the Waiting Game
Posts: 2304
| OR heres an idea, maybe ask HER to help keep the peace. Keep an eye out for people being disruptive. I've found that if you ask for someone known to be problematic to HELP you keep peace they will behave. |
|
| |
|
 "Spaz-tacular"!!
Posts: 20309
Location: Bennett, CO | You can't do it. A great producer didn't allow a gal to enter who had some financial obligations to many in the industry....it was a long expensive legal event... And while the producer had good solid reasoning for refusing her entry...in court, she lost |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 288
| I was away from the phone so didn't see all the responses. To clear things up she has been directly confrontational to myself and my children. And many others. She has entered my races before and caused conflict and problems at everyone of them. So it's not a hypothetical, she's been a problem repeatedly.
Also, given that these are small local races that I am the sole producer plus they are NOT sanctioned, I'm curious how any legal issues could arise? Could you explain what exactly happened with the case mentioned earlier? Just for curiosity sake mostly. I just am honestly floored that as a producer people think that problem people should be allowed entry. I find it quite interesting actually |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 288
| suzy2qtee - 2015-02-08 7:02 AM
OR heres an idea, maybe ask HER to help keep the peace. Keep an eye out for people being disruptive. I've found that if you ask for someone known to be problematic to HELP you keep peace they will behave.
While this would be the right approach with most reasonable people, the woman I'm rreferring to is just not ever going to be receptive to reasoning. Period. In fact at another local event she caught me behind the trailers and while holding her newborn in a front pack, pproceeed to tell me I was a fat C-word. And she also started screaming at me the other day at a committee meeting for our local sorting. Yelling at me in front of a group of people, also while holding her infant. It was to the point where the president asked her to leave. |
|
| |
|
Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | WE HAVE ONE OF THOSE AROUND HERE TOO.People cringe when she shows up .The next time she disrespects you kick her off the grounds and let her know its PERMANENT. |
|
| |
|
 Morale Booster!!
Posts: 1459
| I dont understand this. Why would this person be able to continue entering if financial obligations were not taken care of?
I have a friend that produces many barrel races. And YES, she did tell one person that she was no longer welcome to any of her barrel races because of the confrontation that she continually had with the producer. I think if its your barrel race, then yes, then can be 86'ed!! There is no need to be miserable and work you butt off to have a good race. |
|
| |
|
 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | next time she is being aggressive call the cops.. they can make her leave. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 268
| Unfortunately there is always people like this around....everywhere. This is one reason why I won't host jackpots. It's almost like you should be thankful for people coming to your jackpot rather than THEM thankful someone is putting them on! I have seen this over and over again....it doesn't stop until they have nowhere else to go. If this person is belligerent then ask then nicely to leave as that behaviour is not welcome and tell them they are not welcome to return. You would think it would be embarrassing enough for them that they would stay away maybe? Problem is most of those types of people never think they do anything wrong and it always "someone else" who is the problem.....
Good Luck! |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 288
| sandygirl1 - 2015-02-08 11:52 AM
Unfortunately there is always people like this around....everywhere. This is one reason why I won't host jackpots. It's almost like you should be thankful for people coming to your jackpot rather than THEM thankful someone is putting them on! I have seen this over and over again....it doesn't stop until they have nowhere else to go. If this person is belligerent then ask then nicely to leave as that behaviour is not welcome and tell them they are not welcome to return. You would think it would be embarrassing enough for them that they would stay away maybe? Problem is most of those types of people never think they do anything wrong and it always "someone else" who is the problem.....
Good Luck!
^^I couldn't agree with this more. It's like she thinks it's completely normal to scream cuss words at someone while holding your infant child. |
|
| |
|
I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Bibliafarm - 2015-02-08 12:13 PM
next time she is being aggressive call the cops.. they can make her leave.
This is what I would do. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 507
Location: Lost in the corn of Iowa. | wickedstepmother - 2015-02-08 11:26 AM suzy2qtee - 2015-02-08 7:02 AM OR heres an idea, maybe ask HER to help keep the peace. Keep an eye out for people being disruptive. I've found that if you ask for someone known to be problematic to HELP you keep peace they will behave. While this would be the right approach with most reasonable people, the woman I'm rreferring to is just not ever going to be receptive to reasoning. Period. In fact at another local event she caught me behind the trailers and while holding her newborn in a front pack, pproceeed to tell me I was a fat C-word. And she also started screaming at me the other day at a committee meeting for our local sorting. Yelling at me in front of a group of people, also while holding her infant. It was to the point where the president asked her to leave.
If she is that confrontational to you that you feel threatened, call the cops. And nothing else you can get a restraining order. I know it's just a piece of paper, but it would be reason enough for her to stay the heck away from you while she at an event you are producing. You may not be able to ban her, but you can at least make it known that she is not to anywhere near you or else you can have her hauled off. Life is too short to deal with childish people like her. |
|
| |
|
| My horse fell on me at a barrel race in 2008 fracturing my distal fibulae. A SLANDEROUS LIE was spread by a few certain people that I was suing the facility owner. These individuals tried to get me banned from 4 different arenas in the state. Minnesota has a legal database which contains ALL lawsuits for 30+ years, so I proved my innocence multiple times by carrying state documents with me wherever I went.
A few years ago, I hauled to a barrel race at Arrowhead Arena. I was accosted by the event producer (a mutual friend told me she was one of those spreading the lie initially), saying that I couldn't enter because I had a lawsuit. I told her NO lawsuit ever existed and I could prove it. She said "It doesn't matter... you're not running at my barrel race". I peacefully left, but a few days later, I received a letter from the attorney of Arrowhead's owner (the owner and producer are friends), informing me that I would be arrested if I ever set foot on her property again. I immediately sent a letter with all the facts to the owner of Arrowhead Arena and yet, she continues to ignore the facts.
So, a personal vendetta is the only reason needed to 86 someone from a barrel race that you produce. The reason for the vendetta... WPRA fined the producer for beating her horse over the head with a whip at a pro rodeo and she accused me of turning her in. I had to get a letter from WPRA stating they have no record of me turning anyone in for anything and she STILL accuses me of it. I didn't witness it and didn't know who did until two years later. A PRCA judge told me he witnessed the animal abuse and fined her.
Edited by ms cartman 2015-02-08 4:05 PM
|
|
| |
|
The BHW Book Worm
Posts: 1768
| ms cartman - 2015-02-08 3:14 PM
My horse fell on me at a barrel race in 2008 fracturing my distal fibulae. A SLANDEROUS LIE was spread by a few certain people that I was suing the facility owner. These individuals tried to get me banned from 4 different arenas in the state. Minnesota has a legal database which contains ALL lawsuits for 30+ years, so I proved my innocence multiple times by carrying state documents with me wherever I went.
A few years ago, I hauled to a barrel race at Arrowhead Arena. I was accosted by the event producer (a mutual friend told me she was one of those spreading the lie initially), saying that I couldn't enter because I had a lawsuit. I told her NO lawsuit ever existed and I could prove it. She said "It doesn't matter... you're not running at my barrel race". I peacefully left, but a few days later, I received a letter from the attorney of Arrowhead's owner (the owner and producer are friends), informing me that I would be arrested if I ever set foot on her property again. I immediately sent a letter with all the facts to the owner of Arrowhead Arena and yet, she continues to ignore the facts.
So, a personal vendetta is the only reason needed to 86 someone from a barrel race that you produce. The reason for the vendetta... WPRA fined the producer for beating her horse over the head with a whip at a pro rodeo and she accused me of turning her in. I had to get a letter from WPRA stating they have no record of me turning anyone in for anything and she STILL accuses me of it. I didn't witness it and didn't know who did in until two years later. A PRCA judge told me he witnessed the animal abuse and fined her.
This is a nightmare |
|
| |
|
 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | You should have posted rules that cover anyone causing problems will be asked to leave the grounds and will not be allowed to enter any more of your races. |
|
| |
|
 I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | People like this are a dime a dozen. I say people because I've encountered both male and female. They are not happy unless they are causing hate and discontent. Not happy with the ground, not happy with the setup of the race, not happy with the rules. Not happy with the payout, or entry fees. Complaining constantly to everyone who will listen. I personally witnessed a lady calling her friends to not come to the race because the ground wasn't up to her specifications. Then made the producer restake the pattern to better serve her and her horse. Since that producer was new to putting on races she caved to the demands, thus ticking off everyone else. The producer's numbers dropped considerably for the next race she had. It was a direct result in the bad mouthing and whining of just one person.
That being said. I agree with NTO. Post rules from the beginning. Anyone who is continually disruptive and offending other racers will be asked to leave.
For all the whiners out there...... Just be happy people are putting on races. It is impossible to please everyone, if you don't like it, produce them yourself. |
|
| |
|
 I Chore in Chucks
Posts: 2882
Location: MD | There are some people that just need something to be angry about. Let it go until she does something at one of your events then ban her. it's going to cause more problems if you ban before anything goes down... I can see it now, "She banned me, i didn't even do anything to deserve it, what is she scared of me?" etc...
I don't understand why she would even want to attend anyways, it sounds like she doesn't really enjoy your company. But the negative nancys are always bizarre. |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 2128
| As some of the others have said, post rules for your race. Include a rule covering disruptive/disrespectful behavior, and when she breaks it (sounds like she will) ask her to leave and not to come back to your races.
If you can, have witnesses around when/if you ask her to leave because she broke your rules. Maybe even have a recorder handy. This will support your case if she tries to take legal action against you.
Edited by scwebster 2015-02-09 10:16 AM
|
|
| |
|
| ms cartman - 2015-02-08 3:14 PM
My horse fell on me at a barrel race in 2008 fracturing my distal fibulae. A SLANDEROUS LIE was spread by a few certain people that I was suing the facility owner. These individuals tried to get me banned from 4 different arenas in the state. Minnesota has a legal database which contains ALL lawsuits for 30+ years, so I proved my innocence multiple times by carrying state documents with me wherever I went.
A few years ago, I hauled to a barrel race at Arrowhead Arena. I was accosted by the event producer (a mutual friend told me she was one of those spreading the lie initially), saying that I couldn't enter because I had a lawsuit. I told her NO lawsuit ever existed and I could prove it. She said "It doesn't matter... you're not running at my barrel race". I peacefully left, but a few days later, I received a letter from the attorney of Arrowhead's owner (the owner and producer are friends), informing me that I would be arrested if I ever set foot on her property again. I immediately sent a letter with all the facts to the owner of Arrowhead Arena and yet, she continues to ignore the facts.
So, a personal vendetta is the only reason needed to 86 someone from a barrel race that you produce. The reason for the vendetta... WPRA fined the producer for beating her horse over the head with a whip at a pro rodeo and she accused me of turning her in. I had to get a letter from WPRA stating they have no record of me turning anyone in for anything and she STILL accuses me of it. I didn't witness it and didn't know who did until two years later. A PRCA judge told me he witnessed the animal abuse and fined her.
Ms Cartman I call bull****! Just because a lawsuit was never filed in Minnesota doesn't mean there wasn't intent to do so. Too bad for you that lawyers around here were smart enough to know there was no case. Do you also carry around paperwork from the states you HAVE sued people in? People in MN aren't stupid we know who you are. |
|
| |
|
 A very grounded girl
Posts: 5052
Location: Moving soon..... | wickedstepmother - 2015-02-08 11:26 AM suzy2qtee - 2015-02-08 7:02 AM OR heres an idea, maybe ask HER to help keep the peace. Keep an eye out for people being disruptive. I've found that if you ask for someone known to be problematic to HELP you keep peace they will behave. While this would be the right approach with most reasonable people, the woman I'm rreferring to is just not ever going to be receptive to reasoning. Period. In fact at another local event she caught me behind the trailers and while holding her newborn in a front pack, pproceeed to tell me I was a fat C-word. And she also started screaming at me the other day at a committee meeting for our local sorting. Yelling at me in front of a group of people, also while holding her infant. It was to the point where the president asked her to leave.
That would be enough to tell her that she is not welcome at your races. Period. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 490
| We banned a girl. Actually she has been banned from several local arenas due to abusing her horse. But the final straw at this particular show was when her horse blew out of a turn during her run and she proceeded to whip on him in the arena. As she starts to head back for the barrel it was announced by the producer that circling the barrel was a $X fine per turn. She then turns the barrel 3 times. So the producer announced that she needed to come pay her fine before she ran her next horse. This girl is about 19. Has a short temper and is abusive to her horses. She proceeds to cuss the producer out when she isn't allowed to run her next horse until the fine was paid. And I mean CUSSED HER OUT. F bombs were flying. I would have probably socked her in the mouth for talking to me like that! She told her she never heard her say that was the rule and she didn't know. Sad part was the rules were posted both online, on fb and at the race so NO excuse. HER MOM STOOD THERE AND LET IT HAPPEN TOO!!!!!!!
OP give the lady enough rope and she will hang herself. Just be patient. Noone puts up with this local girls crap and if she pulls any kind of stunt she is quickly told to vacate the premises and not come back.
Good Luck. Im getting a first hand view at producing shows since I am helping several producers in the office. I have lost respect for quite a few ladies for the way they have treated us in the office. Its not an easy job. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2128
| Jazz's Girl - 2015-02-09 10:37 AM We banned a girl. Actually she has been banned from several local arenas due to abusing her horse. But the final straw at this particular show was when her horse blew out of a turn during her run and she proceeded to whip on him in the arena. As she starts to head back for the barrel it was announced by the producer that circling the barrel was a $X fine per turn. She then turns the barrel 3 times. So the producer announced that she needed to come pay her fine before she ran her next horse. This girl is about 19. Has a short temper and is abusive to her horses. She proceeds to cuss the producer out when she isn't allowed to run her next horse until the fine was paid. And I mean CUSSED HER OUT. F bombs were flying. I would have probably socked her in the mouth for talking to me like that! She told her she never heard her say that was the rule and she didn't know. Sad part was the rules were posted both online, on fb and at the race so NO excuse. HER MOM STOOD THERE AND LET IT HAPPEN TOO!!!!!!! OP give the lady enough rope and she will hang herself. Just be patient. Noone puts up with this local girls crap and if she pulls any kind of stunt she is quickly told to vacate the premises and not come back. Good Luck. Im getting a first hand view at producing shows since I am helping several producers in the office. I have lost respect for quite a few ladies for the way they have treated us in the office. Its not an easy job.
Just WOW! If I was her mother I would have probably had people feeling more sorry for her than they did her horse. |
|
| |
|
 Ms. Elvis
Posts: 9606
Location: Running barrels or watching nascar | I wish you could ban anyone who is disrespectful in the warm up pen but that's another story and will probably never happen. |
|
| |
|
Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Nevertooold - 2015-02-08 3:54 PM You should have posted rules that cover anyone causing problems will be asked to leave the grounds and will not be allowed to enter any more of your races.
I agree! Post this on all your race flyers, facebook page, website, entree blank's ect. On the entree blank's list disrutpive behavior including but not limited to abuse to horses or people.....ect ect and include the rules at the bottom with the liability waiver andby signing below you agree to abide by all rules or they may be asked to leave and hold harmless..........ect ect. Make sure you make everyone sign the release on the entree blank when they check in. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | I would think if the event is on private property you can ban people. I would also think 'we reserve the right to refuse any entry' would be sufficient as well. What law exists that a producer must accept all entries??? They are private events?? |
|
| |
|
 Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | I have similar thinking. Restaurants and businesses reserve the right to refuse service, so a producer should be able to do the same.
I however agree with those who say they should make all the rules very clear and when she breaks them, kick her out and then ban her. Then she has only herself to blame and can't come back and say they were treating her unfairly and singling her out. |
|
| |
|
| Bucky - 2015-02-09 10:26 AM
ms cartman - 2015-02-08 3:14 PM
My horse fell on me at a barrel race in 2008 fracturing my distal fibulae. A SLANDEROUS LIE was spread by a few certain people that I was suing the facility owner. These individuals tried to get me banned from 4 different arenas in the state. Minnesota has a legal database which contains ALL lawsuits for 30+ years, so I proved my innocence multiple times by carrying state documents with me wherever I went.
A few years ago, I hauled to a barrel race at Arrowhead Arena. I was accosted by the event producer (a mutual friend told me she was one of those spreading the lie initially), saying that I couldn't enter because I had a lawsuit. I told her NO lawsuit ever existed and I could prove it. She said "It doesn't matter... you're not running at my barrel race". I peacefully left, but a few days later, I received a letter from the attorney of Arrowhead's owner (the owner and producer are friends), informing me that I would be arrested if I ever set foot on her property again. I immediately sent a letter with all the facts to the owner of Arrowhead Arena and yet, she continues to ignore the facts.
So, a personal vendetta is the only reason needed to 86 someone from a barrel race that you produce. The reason for the vendetta... WPRA fined the producer for beating her horse over the head with a whip at a pro rodeo and she accused me of turning her in. I had to get a letter from WPRA stating they have no record of me turning anyone in for anything and she STILL accuses me of it. I didn't witness it and didn't know who did until two years later. A PRCA judge told me he witnessed the animal abuse and fined her.
Ms Cartman I call bull****! Just because a lawsuit was never filed in Minnesota doesn't mean there wasn't intent to do so. Too bad for you that lawyers around here were smart enough to know there was no case. Do you also carry around paperwork from the states you HAVE sued people in? People in MN aren't stupid we know who you are.
Bucky, There was no lawsuit nor intent of a lawsuit. These are the facts and my friends in MN know me and the facts. As we both know, people who choose to slander and libel through hearsay will do so. I choose to focus on my barrel racing and rise above the garbage people want to spew.
If my response isn't satisfactory to you, please feel free to PM me and I'll clear up any questions you may have.  |
|
| |
|
I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | scwebster - 2015-02-09 10:13 AM As some of the others have said, post rules for your race. Include a rule covering disruptive/disrespectful behavior, and when she breaks it (sounds like she will) ask her to leave and not to come back to your races.
If you can, have witnesses around when/if you ask her to leave because she broke your rules. Maybe even have a recorder handy. This will support your case if she tries to take legal action against you.
There are a lot of angry people about how this country is being run down and how the working man is paying for it. It's too bad the anger flows into our daily lifes and even spills over to our barrel races. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1956
Location: Ky | gotothewhip - 2015-02-08 9:14 AM You can't do it. A great producer didn't allow a gal to enter who had some financial obligations to many in the industry....it was a long expensive legal event... And while the producer had good solid reasoning for refusing her entry...in court, she lost
You absoultely can ban someone from a privately funded event. You can't if there's government monies involved. There has to more to that story if they lost.
Just like the NFR legally bans men from competing in the barrel race. Augusta National still bans women members to this day. Legally.
A restaurant can refuse service as long as they don't do it solely based on race the way Denny's did it.
If I was producing horse shows there a some people that would not be allowed to participate and I would dare them to sue me. |
|
| |
|
 Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | We have an open saddle club show here that's mostly pleasure classes. They have a statement in their rules that they reserve the right to ban a rider for ANY reason and that they have a zero social media policy and can ban based on that as well. They set the bar from the beginning and have one of the best run circuits out there. Your Show, your rules. As long as the rules are posted ahead of time and they choose to enter anyway I don't see why you should have a problem banning them should they break them. |
|
| |
|
 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Fairweather - 2015-02-10 2:18 AM We have an open saddle club show here that's mostly pleasure classes. They have a statement in their rules that they reserve the right to ban a rider for ANY reason and that they have a zero social media policy and can ban based on that as well. They set the bar from the beginning and have one of the best run circuits out there. Your Show, your rules. As long as the rules are posted ahead of time and they choose to enter anyway I don't see why you should have a problem banning them should they break them.
^^^^^ It would be wiser to post the rules, then "ban" her if she causes any kind of disturbance....I know that some have said that she couldn't "win" legally in a lawsuit....but look at it this way...ANY lawsuit (whether she wins or not) will COST you money, time and reputation.....if she breaks a "rule", there are no options for her..... |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 288
| jd&ez - 2015-02-09 3:28 PM
gotothewhip - 2015-02-08 9:14 AM You can't do it. A great producer didn't allow a gal to enter who had some financial obligations to many in the industry....it was a long expensive legal event... And while the producer had good solid reasoning for refusing her entry...in court, she lost
You absoultely can ban someone from a privately funded event. You can't if there's government monies involved. There has to more to that story if they lost.
Just like the NFR legally bans men from competing in the barrel race. Augusta National still bans women members to this day. Legally.
A restaurant can refuse service as long as they don't do it solely based on race the way Denny's did it.
If I was producing horse shows there a some people that would not be allowed to participate and I would dare them to sue me.
I agree!! I'm not understanding how people would not get laughed out of court for suing? Barrel racing is a privilege not a right. What be the basis for their court case?
Oh and to clarify again, she ALREADY has cussed me out several times over at public functions as well as caused problems at previous races I've produced for two years in a row. |
|
| |
|
 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | BBKitamanCutter - 2015-02-06 4:37 PM
Personally I think your time and energy can be invested in other things rather then ostracizing someone you've never directly had a problem with.
Life is too short and you may never have an issue with her. If you make a point to personally attack (which banning her from the race would be) then you will have created the issue. I'd just let it be.
Agree |
|
| |
|
Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | wickedstepmother - 2015-02-10 9:27 AM jd&ez - 2015-02-09 3:28 PM gotothewhip - 2015-02-08 9:14 AM You can't do it. A great producer didn't allow a gal to enter who had some financial obligations to many in the industry....it was a long expensive legal event... And while the producer had good solid reasoning for refusing her entry...in court, she lost You absoultely can ban someone from a privately funded event. You can't if there's government monies involved. There has to more to that story if they lost.
Just like the NFR legally bans men from competing in the barrel race. Augusta National still bans women members to this day. Legally.
A restaurant can refuse service as long as they don't do it solely based on race the way Denny's did it.
If I was producing horse shows there a some people that would not be allowed to participate and I would dare them to sue me. I agree!! I'm not understanding how people would not get laughed out of court for suing? Barrel racing is a privilege not a right. What be the basis for their court case? Oh and to clarify again, she ALREADY has cussed me out several times over at public functions as well as caused problems at previous races I've produced for two years in a row.
Then you "should" have done something at that time ! ! ! |
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 617
Location: London Ontario | My whole thing is why in the heck would she even want to go? She is putting money in YOUR pocket....the LAST thing I would do if I hated someone was to show up and support their event! Duh! |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 288
| I don't think she thinks that way. She shows up knowing it makes everyone miserable and now the attention is on her. And also cause she thinks she intimidates people and that makes her feel powerful. I'm not kidding she's mentally ill |
|
| |
|
BHW's Simon Cowell
Location: The Saudia Arabia of Wind Energy, Western Oklahoma | Team ropings have kept people from entering for years. There were people that they wouldn't let enter because they ran off all the ropers because they won too much. These producers never had any trouble not lettting someone enter, don't know how it would be any different at a barrel race. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 288
| NJJ - 2015-02-10 7:59 AM
wickedstepmother - 2015-02-10 9:27 AM jd&ez - 2015-02-09 3:28 PM gotothewhip - 2015-02-08 9:14 AM You can't do it. A great producer didn't allow a gal to enter who had some financial obligations to many in the industry....it was a long expensive legal event... And while the producer had good solid reasoning for refusing her entry...in court, she lost You absoultely can ban someone from a privately funded event. You can't if there's government monies involved. There has to more to that story if they lost.
Just like the NFR legally bans men from competing in the barrel race. Augusta National still bans women members to this day. Legally.
A restaurant can refuse service as long as they don't do it solely based on race the way Denny's did it.
If I was producing horse shows there a some people that would not be allowed to participate and I would dare them to sue me. I agree!! I'm not understanding how people would not get laughed out of court for suing? Barrel racing is a privilege not a right. What be the basis for their court case? Oh and to clarify again, she ALREADY has cussed me out several times over at public functions as well as caused problems at previous races I've produced for two years in a row.
Maybe so, but for one I was stunned and for two I was unsure of how to handle it. Now she is starting arguments anytime she is around me anywhere she sees me. But after reading some of the other producers suggestions here, I have a plan for how to deal with her in the future. I understand for you it may look black and white but it wasnt. Now it is. |
|
| |
|
Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | Years ago when I was running a show I got blind sided in the middle of a run while I was keeping time. You're so busy running a show that stuff like this does catch you by complete surprise and it's tough to handle it appropriately off the cuff like that when you don't expect it.
|
|
| |
|
 Arriving at the last minute!
Posts: 5148
Location: Kansas | I got sued by a person from Minnesota for buying a horse she was thinking about buying. Lol |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 1857
| amy laymon - 2015-03-02 10:42 AM
I got sued by a person from Minnesota for buying a horse she was thinking about buying. Lol
No way.... You're joking right!?!! |
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 754
Location: Arkansas | It's been pretty easy for team ropers to do since the USTRC--all they have to do is get someone's number bumped so they are numbered too high to enter that particular roping. There are very few "open" local team ropings anymore, at least in our area. |
|
| |
|
 Don't Need Sugar Coating
Posts: 1183
Location: AR & OK | Since this woman has a habit of cussing you out anywhere at any time, I would dial 911 on your cellphone and let the operator listen to her rant.
In fact, I think you should go to the police now. Report to them a timeline of things that have been happening over the years. Bring them up to date. They will take notes and put it in their data base. I think what you call it is having notes on file. Tell them, it has really scared you and friends encouraged you to let them know what has been happening and they are concerned for your safety. It might be a good idea to have the people who have witnessed all this to give a report or see if they are willing to tell the police if they are asked after you report it.
That way when she shows up to your barrel race with her crazy attitude, you call the police immediately. The police can read those notes and be aware of the history of trouble this crazy lady has been giving these barrel races and you.
Edited by candyloveshorses 2015-03-03 2:09 AM
|
|
| |
|
Arriving at the last minute!
Posts: 5148
Location: Kansas | I decided to delete my response. What is in the past doesn't need brought up on a thread. You learn with bad experiences! There are people out there that want control and they do things to gain it. I wish you all luck on figuring this out. People will sue for about any reason and it is never fun to be in court been there twice in last 11 years and it was so stupid both times! I am so disgusted with the court system once I saw what goes on. Everything needs to be in writing it seems unless you really know who your dealing with. If you have someone you know that does horrible things to other people just remember they will turn on you in an instant if they aren't getting their way:) |
|
| |
|
Location: The RIGHT side of insanity! | jd&ez - 2015-02-09 5:28 PM
gotothewhip - 2015-02-08 9:14 AM You can't do it. A great producer didn't allow a gal to enter who had some financial obligations to many in the industry....it was a long expensive legal event... And while the producer had good solid reasoning for refusing her entry...in court, she lost
You absoultely can ban someone from a privately funded event. You can't if there's government monies involved. There has to more to that story if they lost.
Just like the NFR legally bans men from competing in the barrel race. Augusta National still bans women members to this day. Legally.
A restaurant can refuse service as long as they don't do it solely based on race the way Denny's did it.
If I was producing horse shows there a some people that would not be allowed to participate and I would dare them to sue me.
The Augusta National is a private club and does have 2 women members. Just to clarify. |
|
| |
|
 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | amy laymon - 2015-03-02 10:42 AM I got sued by a person from Minnesota for buying a horse she was thinking about buying. Lol
please tell me she DIDN'T win!!! That is horrible!!! |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2128
| amy laymon - 2015-03-02 10:42 AM I got sued by a person from Minnesota for buying a horse she was thinking about buying. Lol
Shut up!!! Not literally but WOW! How did that work out? Did she just have papers served to you or did you actually have to go to court over it? |
|
| |
|
Location: The RIGHT side of insanity! | wickedstepmother - 2015-02-07 3:08 PM
What is everyone's thoughts on not allowing a person to enter a race you produce. A gal around here is very high conflict, spreads lies just for the pleasure of hurting others and is very confrontational. I personally do not want her running at my races. Has any of you that have produced races ever told someone NO. What happened after? I'm just curious if this ever happens
Post your rules and have a conduct section. Be specific on the conduct that is not acceptable and unacceptable at your event. On your entry form, make sure you have verbage that all contestants HAVE READ and agree to follow all rules - MAKE THEM SIGN IT. Failure to follow the rules can result in fine, discipline actions and banning from all future events. Cover your tail. The NBHA Requires all members to sign a waiver when you get a membership.
When she breaks the rules, be sure to A-video the conduct. Sure, witnesses are great, but there is NO arguing with video proof. B-Call the police. Make a report. Do whatever needed to have the law on your side.
I always agree with producer rights. If you put your neck out, you should be able to run your event however you see fit. People don't have a right to show up and cause drama.
Does this open you up to legal ramifications? You bet!! But so does putting on barrel races. A person can sue with no just cause. Best of luck:-) |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2128
| rodeochick382 - 2015-03-02 10:49 AM
It's been pretty easy for team ropers to do since the USTRC--all they have to do is get someone's number bumped so they are numbered too high to enter that particular roping. There are very few "open" local team ropings anymore, at least in our area.
Crazy how that works. I have heard of instances in my area where ropers say someone called them in to have their number bumped. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 288
| Thanks for all the responses I appreciate them! |
|
| |
|
 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| Just post in the rules NO CUSSING allowed on the show grounds. Sounds like she would break that rule in the first five minutes. Which would give you grounds to ban her. |
|
| |
|
Location: USA | scwebster - 2015-03-02 3:04 PM
amy laymon - 2015-03-02 10:42 AM I got sued by a person from Minnesota for buying a horse she was thinking about buying. Lol
Shut up!!! Not literally but WOW! How did that work out? Did she just have papers served to you or did you actually have to go to court over it?
It happened. She was served papers. The person who sued Amy commented on this thread, as a poor innocent.She didn't win. She was just to delighted to have cost Amy legal fees. Like someone questioned, "why would you want to come and support a race of someone you hate?" Vindictive hatred. Pure and simple. She wants to make others miserable and for them to "pay"for the percieved injustices of the past. Obviously there are quite a few mean spirited barrel racers out there. |
|
| |
|
 Member
Posts: 14
| I have been a new producer and had this happen to me. A "friend" who was supposed to be helping me with the fine points because she had been in the industry much longer forced me to restake the barrels after her daughter fell in the third run. We asked all three of the runners who had run to come to the office and asked their opinion of the ground. We were trying to start a new facility so we wanted people to know we were listening and willing to make things as safe as possible. The racers agreed that the ground was loose so we moved the third barrel up. I was not happy about it but I wanted it to be safe for all.
For all of you negative Nancies out there you have no idea how hard it is to put on a race. Producers struggle to make the best events possible. They want to hear your constructive criticism and improve. But your selfish comments are often taken to heart and then cause people like me to be so dis-heartened by the whole community that they refuse to produce more events.
After the race I found out that this person had been calling people and telling them to stay away. I was so upset and heartbroken. We were working our tails off to make the facility a premier location. Due to this circumstance the location owners chose to cancel all future races there. I had to move BBR/WPRA co-approved races and I have since chosen not to produce races any more. It wasn't worth the stress or the headaches involved.
Beating a dead horse here, I'm sure. 
But you have to understand just how much effort and energy is put into putting these events on. Most of the time when new producers are starting out they make little to no money because they are not yet well established enough to get major sponsors. When you take the joy out of it it is certainly not worth it to the producer to continue. If you want to have quality events to enjoy then you will have to stop bad-mouthing and act like the professional horse(wo)men you are supposed to be.
For the producers who are having these challenges with contestants, I will keep saying prayers for you! Some have commented that you should make foul-language a reason to ban someone, but as someone with a bit of a potty mouth myself (although never directed at someone in anger) I would be scared to go to a race with those rules. I think that you should set your rules up to ban someone who abuses production staff, etc. Or take a note from rodeo and have "officials" for each race (like rodeo judges). It's their job to make the tough calls. If someone wants to file a complaint they will have to file a fee with the office and take it up with the official for the day. The official keeps the money if the decision is upheld. The person gets it returned if their complaint is found to have merit. Anyone who comes in the office will have to take up their concerns with the official. That eliminates abuse of office staff/volunteers and helps to keep the show moving. Many people like to hear their voice but not enough to pay for the opportunity. If I ever produce a race again that will be in my rules. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1857
| CaitConn - 2015-03-03 3:35 PM
I have been a new producer and had this happen to me. A "friend" who was supposed to be helping me with the fine points because she had been in the industry much longer forced me to restake the barrels after her daughter fell in the third run. We asked all three of the runners who had run to come to the office and asked their opinion of the ground. We were trying to start a new facility so we wanted people to know we were listening and willing to make things as safe as possible. The racers agreed that the ground was loose so we moved the third barrel up. I was not happy about it but I wanted it to be safe for all.
For all of you negative Nancies out there you have no idea how hard it is to put on a race. Producers struggle to make the best events possible. They want to hear your constructive criticism and improve. But your selfish comments are often taken to heart and then cause people like me to be so dis-heartened by the whole community that they refuse to produce more events.
After the race I found out that this person had been calling people and telling them to stay away. I was so upset and heartbroken. We were working our tails off to make the facility a premier location. Due to this circumstance the location owners chose to cancel all future races there. I had to move BBR/WPRA co-approved races and I have since chosen not to produce races any more. It wasn't worth the stress or the headaches involved.
Beating a dead horse here, I'm sure.
But you have to understand just how much effort and energy is put into putting these events on. Most of the time when new producers are starting out they make little to no money because they are not yet well established enough to get major sponsors. When you take the joy out of it it is certainly not worth it to the producer to continue. If you want to have quality events to enjoy then you will have to stop bad-mouthing and act like the professional horse (wo )men you are supposed to be.
For the producers who are having these challenges with contestants, I will keep saying prayers for you! Some have commented that you should make foul-language a reason to ban someone, but as someone with a bit of a potty mouth myself (although never directed at someone in anger ) I would be scared to go to a race with those rules. I think that you should set your rules up to ban someone who abuses production staff, etc. Or take a note from rodeo and have "officials" for each race (like rodeo judges ). It's their job to make the tough calls. If someone wants to file a complaint they will have to file a fee with the office and take it up with the official for the day. The official keeps the money if the decision is upheld. The person gets it returned if their complaint is found to have merit. Anyone who comes in the office will have to take up their concerns with the official. That eliminates abuse of office staff/volunteers and helps to keep the show moving. Many people like to hear their voice but not enough to pay for the opportunity. If I ever produce a race again that will be in my rules.
As a producer myself I couldn't agree more with your post!  |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2128
| FlyingJT - 2015-03-03 3:39 PM CaitConn - 2015-03-03 3:35 PM I have been a new producer and had this happen to me. A "friend" who was supposed to be helping me with the fine points because she had been in the industry much longer forced me to restake the barrels after her daughter fell in the third run. We asked all three of the runners who had run to come to the office and asked their opinion of the ground. We were trying to start a new facility so we wanted people to know we were listening and willing to make things as safe as possible. The racers agreed that the ground was loose so we moved the third barrel up. I was not happy about it but I wanted it to be safe for all. For all of you negative Nancies out there you have no idea how hard it is to put on a race. Producers struggle to make the best events possible. They want to hear your constructive criticism and improve. But your selfish comments are often taken to heart and then cause people like me to be so dis-heartened by the whole community that they refuse to produce more events. After the race I found out that this person had been calling people and telling them to stay away. I was so upset and heartbroken. We were working our tails off to make the facility a premier location. Due to this circumstance the location owners chose to cancel all future races there. I had to move BBR/WPRA co-approved races and I have since chosen not to produce races any more. It wasn't worth the stress or the headaches involved. Beating a dead horse here, I'm sure. But you have to understand just how much effort and energy is put into putting these events on. Most of the time when new producers are starting out they make little to no money because they are not yet well established enough to get major sponsors. When you take the joy out of it it is certainly not worth it to the producer to continue. If you want to have quality events to enjoy then you will have to stop bad-mouthing and act like the professional horse (wo )men you are supposed to be. For the producers who are having these challenges with contestants, I will keep saying prayers for you! Some have commented that you should make foul-language a reason to ban someone, but as someone with a bit of a potty mouth myself (although never directed at someone in anger ) I would be scared to go to a race with those rules. I think that you should set your rules up to ban someone who abuses production staff, etc. Or take a note from rodeo and have "officials" for each race (like rodeo judges ). It's their job to make the tough calls. If someone wants to file a complaint they will have to file a fee with the office and take it up with the official for the day. The official keeps the money if the decision is upheld. The person gets it returned if their complaint is found to have merit. Anyone who comes in the office will have to take up their concerns with the official. That eliminates abuse of office staff/volunteers and helps to keep the show moving. Many people like to hear their voice but not enough to pay for the opportunity. If I ever produce a race again that will be in my rules. As a producer myself I couldn't agree more with your post!
I have witnessed the bad attitudes from compeditors at races myself. It seems someone always finds something to be disatisfied about. I truely have compasion for you folks that produce. |
|
| |
|
Location: USA | CaitConn - 2015-03-03 3:35 PM I have been a new producer and had this happen to me. A "friend" who was supposed to be helping me with the fine points because she had been in the industry much longer forced me to restake the barrels after her daughter fell in the third run. We asked all three of the runners who had run to come to the office and asked their opinion of the ground. We were trying to start a new facility so we wanted people to know we were listening and willing to make things as safe as possible. The racers agreed that the ground was loose so we moved the third barrel up. I was not happy about it but I wanted it to be safe for all. For all of you negative Nancies out there you have no idea how hard it is to put on a race. Producers struggle to make the best events possible. They want to hear your constructive criticism and improve. But your selfish comments are often taken to heart and then cause people like me to be so dis-heartened by the whole community that they refuse to produce more events. After the race I found out that this person had been calling people and telling them to stay away. I was so upset and heartbroken. We were working our tails off to make the facility a premier location. Due to this circumstance the location owners chose to cancel all future races there. I had to move BBR/WPRA co-approved races and I have since chosen not to produce races any more. It wasn't worth the stress or the headaches involved. Beating a dead horse here, I'm sure. But you have to understand just how much effort and energy is put into putting these events on. Most of the time when new producers are starting out they make little to no money because they are not yet well established enough to get major sponsors. When you take the joy out of it it is certainly not worth it to the producer to continue. If you want to have quality events to enjoy then you will have to stop bad-mouthing and act like the professional horse (wo )men you are supposed to be. For the producers who are having these challenges with contestants, I will keep saying prayers for you! Some have commented that you should make foul-language a reason to ban someone, but as someone with a bit of a potty mouth myself (although never directed at someone in anger ) I would be scared to go to a race with those rules. I think that you should set your rules up to ban someone who abuses production staff, etc. Or take a note from rodeo and have "officials" for each race (like rodeo judges ). It's their job to make the tough calls. If someone wants to file a complaint they will have to file a fee with the office and take it up with the official for the day. The official keeps the money if the decision is upheld. The person gets it returned if their complaint is found to have merit. Anyone who comes in the office will have to take up their concerns with the official. That eliminates abuse of office staff/volunteers and helps to keep the show moving. Many people like to hear their voice but not enough to pay for the opportunity. If I ever produce a race again that will be in my rules.
Edited by BLM 2015-03-03 10:44 PM
|
|
| |
|
 Unknown Drip
Posts: 5624
Location: Back in MT BABY!!! | Good luck with your plan. I would still go as far as calling the sherriff's office, giving them a heads up that they maybe called to assist in escorting her off of the grounds when you do have your race. If this is an on going issue I'm sure once you tell her she is banned from your races all h3ll is going to break loose. |
|
| |
|
 Queen Boobie mascot
Posts: 706
Location: Mayerthorpe Alberta | At the stage Im at in my life, I would be more than happy to never ever produce aka host a barrel race again. I am very happy to help as much as I can at events and not have the hassle of the poor hosts. It just simply is so demoralizing to have people tear you apart for doing the best you can to make things fair for everyone and there is always someone not happy about something. It truly wears you down. |
|
| |
|
 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | BLM - 2015-03-03 4:32 PM CaitConn - 2015-03-03 3:35 PM I have been a new producer and had this happen to me. A "friend" who was supposed to be helping me with the fine points because she had been in the industry much longer forced me to restake the barrels after her daughter fell in the third run. We asked all three of the runners who had run to come to the office and asked their opinion of the ground. We were trying to start a new facility so we wanted people to know we were listening and willing to make things as safe as possible. The racers agreed that the ground was loose so we moved the third barrel up. I was not happy about it but I wanted it to be safe for all. For all of you negative Nancies out there you have no idea how hard it is to put on a race. Producers struggle to make the best events possible. They want to hear your constructive criticism and improve. But your selfish comments are often taken to heart and then cause people like me to be so dis-heartened by the whole community that they refuse to produce more events. After the race I found out that this person had been calling people and telling them to stay away. I was so upset and heartbroken. We were working our tails off to make the facility a premier location. Due to this circumstance the location owners chose to cancel all future races there. I had to move BBR/WPRA co-approved races and I have since chosen not to produce races any more. It wasn't worth the stress or the headaches involved. Beating a dead horse here, I'm sure. But you have to understand just how much effort and energy is put into putting these events on. Most of the time when new producers are starting out they make little to no money because they are not yet well established enough to get major sponsors. When you take the joy out of it it is certainly not worth it to the producer to continue. If you want to have quality events to enjoy then you will have to stop bad-mouthing and act like the professional horse (wo )men you are supposed to be. For the producers who are having these challenges with contestants, I will keep saying prayers for you! Some have commented that you should make foul-language a reason to ban someone, but as someone with a bit of a potty mouth myself (although never directed at someone in anger ) I would be scared to go to a race with those rules. I think that you should set your rules up to ban someone who abuses production staff, etc. Or take a note from rodeo and have "officials" for each race (like rodeo judges ). It's their job to make the tough calls. If someone wants to file a complaint they will have to file a fee with the office and take it up with the official for the day. The official keeps the money if the decision is upheld. The person gets it returned if their complaint is found to have merit. Anyone who comes in the office will have to take up their concerns with the official. That eliminates abuse of office staff/volunteers and helps to keep the show moving. Many people like to hear their voice but not enough to pay for the opportunity. If I ever produce a race again that will be in my rules.
So very true |
|
| |
|
 Last Comedian Standing 
Posts: 10919
Location: South Texas | Post your rules and on our entry forms where you sign the release it also says you agree to follow all Wrapn3 rules. I have banned one person. She showed up once after that and we refused to take her entry and she left.....about six months later I was asked to let her come back so I did on probationary terms. She personally has not been a problem really but it is her mothers behavior and that was why she was banned in the first place. So I allowed her back as long as her mother did not come with her (the girl was 17ish and father hauled her as well) well first rattle out of the box mom was hiding on the grounds and I was told by others so when she came to the office with her dad we refused her entry and told her to not come back.....Then she showed up on the grounds again as a paid loper for a trainer and I had her removed from the property. She is the only one who has been permenantly banned. I understand she had been banned from other events as well and again because of her mother. I did have one get stupid with me one day and put her hands on me. I tore up her entries up and told her to have a nice trip back to Salado TX and she left. She showed up again at one of my races about a year later and I never heard a peep out of her as she competed and all was good...you have to be fair and consistent to all regardless if you like them personally or not and it makes no difference if they are fressh off the playday circuit or the NFR the same rules apply. |
|
| |
|
Location: USA | snazzy - 2015-03-04 4:57 AM
Post your rules and on our entry forms where you sign the release it also says you agree to follow all Wrapn3 rules. I have banned one person. She showed up once after that and we refused to take her entry and she left.....about six months later I was asked to let her come back so I did on probationary terms. She personally has not been a problem really but it is her mothers behavior and that was why she was banned in the first place. So I allowed her back as long as her mother did not come with her (the girl was 17ish and father hauled her as well) well first rattle out of the box mom was hiding on the grounds and I was told by others so when she came to the office with her dad we refused her entry and told her to not come back.....Then she showed up on the grounds again as a paid loper for a trainer and I had her removed from the property. She is the only one who has been permenantly banned. I understand she had been banned from other events as well and again because of her mother. I did have one get stupid with me one day and put her hands on me. I tore up her entries up and told her to have a nice trip back to Salado TX and she left. She showed up again at one of my races about a year later and I never heard a peep out of her as she competed and all was good...you have to be fair and consistent to all regardless if you like them personally or not and it makes no difference if they are fressh off the playday circuit or the NFR the same rules apply.
Wow! That family must have some sort of mental illness! |
|
| |
86ing someone from a barrel race that you produce