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Member
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| Looking for tips to safely teaching a young stud to live cover. Is it a good plan to pasture breed the first season so he gets taught manners from the mares, or is it best to teach him on the lead? thanks | |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
  
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | My experience with just dumping a foolish 2yr old testosterone driven stallion out with mares, even if just one. Is they get their A$$'s kicked and end up missing cycles. They will mount anywhere but the correct spot and usually do not take NO for an answer. They get clobbered a few times and end up scared of the mare. Not worth the risk.
We hand breed with a chain. May never even need the chain, but they learn through the years that a chain on a halter means they can act like a raging horomone without getting thumped for it. Only use this halter for breeding. They still have to keep all 4 on the ground, but they can squeal and scream to their little hearts content. Have someone hold the mare, make sure she is in and receptive or it can be ugly. We give a cue for the stud to go ahead and get busy. That is just our way. I had one stud that would wine and dine them for 30 minutes licking and grunting over every inch of their body and another that would just walk up behind give a sniff and do the deed.
So much depends on the stallion. You want them to have a fireball of a libido, but not be crazy dangerous either. If you get after them too much and they are a soft hearted stud, you can also ruin them. My Burrs First Down stud wouldn't breed with my husband holding him. He used him for ranch work and brandings and wouldn't tolerate him acting studdy. So the stud had the worlds respect for him.
The more they see a hot mare and don't get any, the madder they get. So if you have something else to tease a mare with, that would be good. I have heard putting a 2yr old colt in with bred broodmares will help teach them manners. We have never tried that, but our studs young and old have always ran with the geldings and other stallions. | |
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Member
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| Thanks for the response! He has been turned out with geldings and has pretty good respect for them, but I think he will have a pretty healthy libido. I am not sure if he will be aggressive or not. My husband thinks we should pasture breed him, but I think we should hand breed due to the fact he is a prospect and I don't want him getting hurt. He is 4 this year | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 489
| We like to hand breed the first couple of times, just to control the situation and help position them. Then I like to turn them out with a REALLY easy breeding mare that is still receptive, but going out. I like letting them run with a bred mare. | |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | MissNDBRAlex - 2015-02-24 12:03 PM Thanks for the response! He has been turned out with geldings and has pretty good respect for them, but I think he will have a pretty healthy libido. I am not sure if he will be aggressive or not. My husband thinks we should pasture breed him, but I think we should hand breed due to the fact he is a prospect and I don't want him getting hurt. He is 4 this year
My husband thought that too, but I argued and won. We went to hand breed his first mare EVER and she wasn't quite in. Would pee all over, but she was also a maiden and needed another 12 hrs probably. So she kicked at him, the stud swung around faster than a snake and kicked at her. My husband said to hell with them and put the stud in with 6 mares. They all beat the tar out of him and although he learned his lesson, he never bred any of the mares in their first cycles, he was a scared little boy. We left them well enough alone and he caught every one on their next cycle. Thank gosh that year we chose to start a month early, we needed it. That scenerio is not recommended, but my husband was a ranch kid and not much tolerance for that kind of thing. We hand bred every stud after that though first. Just made sure the mare was really receptive. | |
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Member
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| KindaClassey - 2015-02-24 1:31 PM
We like to hand breed the first couple of times, just to control the situation and help position them. Then I like to turn them out with a REALLY easy breeding mare that is still receptive, but going out. I like letting them run with a bred mare.
Thanks for the reply! | |
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Member
Posts: 11
| wyoming barrel racer - 2015-02-24 2:09 PM
MissNDBRAlex - 2015-02-24 12:03 PM Thanks for the response! He has been turned out with geldings and has pretty good respect for them, but I think he will have a pretty healthy libido. I am not sure if he will be aggressive or not. My husband thinks we should pasture breed him, but I think we should hand breed due to the fact he is a prospect and I don't want him getting hurt. He is 4 this year
My husband thought that too, but I argued and won. We went to hand breed his first mare EVER and she wasn't quite in. Would pee all over, but she was also a maiden and needed another 12 hrs probably. So she kicked at him, the stud swung around faster than a snake and kicked at her. My husband said to hell with them and put the stud in with 6 mares. They all beat the tar out of him and although he learned his lesson, he never bred any of the mares in their first cycles, he was a scared little boy. We left them well enough alone and he caught every one on their next cycle. Thank gosh that year we chose to start a month early, we needed it. That scenerio is not recommended, but my husband was a ranch kid and not much tolerance for that kind of thing. We hand bred every stud after that though first. Just made sure the mare was really receptive.
Sounds like I should discuss it some more with my husband to see if I can convince him, the first mare I want to breed him to is maiden, so I'd like to help the situation not get too hairy scary. Thanks! | |
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 Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | MissNDBRAlex - 2015-02-24 3:25 PM
wyoming barrel racer - 2015-02-24 2:09 PM
MissNDBRAlex - 2015-02-24 12:03 PM Thanks for the response! He has been turned out with geldings and has pretty good respect for them, but I think he will have a pretty healthy libido. I am not sure if he will be aggressive or not. My husband thinks we should pasture breed him, but I think we should hand breed due to the fact he is a prospect and I don't want him getting hurt. He is 4 this year
My husband thought that too, but I argued and won. We went to hand breed his first mare EVER and she wasn't quite in. Would pee all over, but she was also a maiden and needed another 12 hrs probably. So she kicked at him, the stud swung around faster than a snake and kicked at her. My husband said to hell with them and put the stud in with 6 mares. They all beat the tar out of him and although he learned his lesson, he never bred any of the mares in their first cycles, he was a scared little boy. We left them well enough alone and he caught every one on their next cycle. Thank gosh that year we chose to start a month early, we needed it. That scenerio is not recommended, but my husband was a ranch kid and not much tolerance for that kind of thing. We hand bred every stud after that though first. Just made sure the mare was really receptive.
Sounds like I should discuss it some more with my husband to see if I can convince him, the first mare I want to breed him to is maiden, so I'd like to help the situation not get too hairy scary. Thanks!
Honestly---that is not the best of combinations. Be nice to find an older broodie, he will go to jump and she'll go to running and it will be a trainwreck. JMO | |
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Member
Posts: 11
| Mighty Broke - 2015-02-24 3:21 PM
MissNDBRAlex - 2015-02-24 3:25 PM
wyoming barrel racer - 2015-02-24 2:09 PM
MissNDBRAlex - 2015-02-24 12:03 PM Thanks for the response! He has been turned out with geldings and has pretty good respect for them, but I think he will have a pretty healthy libido. I am not sure if he will be aggressive or not. My husband thinks we should pasture breed him, but I think we should hand breed due to the fact he is a prospect and I don't want him getting hurt. He is 4 this year
My husband thought that too, but I argued and won. We went to hand breed his first mare EVER and she wasn't quite in. Would pee all over, but she was also a maiden and needed another 12 hrs probably. So she kicked at him, the stud swung around faster than a snake and kicked at her. My husband said to hell with them and put the stud in with 6 mares. They all beat the tar out of him and although he learned his lesson, he never bred any of the mares in their first cycles, he was a scared little boy. We left them well enough alone and he caught every one on their next cycle. Thank gosh that year we chose to start a month early, we needed it. That scenerio is not recommended, but my husband was a ranch kid and not much tolerance for that kind of thing. We hand bred every stud after that though first. Just made sure the mare was really receptive.
Sounds like I should discuss it some more with my husband to see if I can convince him, the first mare I want to breed him to is maiden, so I'd like to help the situation not get too hairy scary. Thanks!
Honestly---that is not the best of combinations. Be nice to find an older broodie, he will go to jump and she'll go to running and it will be a trainwreck. JMO
I respect your opinion, and in a perfect world he would breed an experienced mare, but it's going to have to work. I am not going to breed to outside mares, and this mare I am wanting to breed was recently retired and a very quality mare. I only plan on breeding my own mares, and my other one is not retired yet. I don't think he will be one that will give up because things didn't go perfectly the first time, and the mare is easy to handle, just want to do it right and help things along in the best way. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Mighty Broke - 2015-02-24 3:21 PM MissNDBRAlex - 2015-02-24 3:25 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2015-02-24 2:09 PM MissNDBRAlex - 2015-02-24 12:03 PM Thanks for the response! He has been turned out with geldings and has pretty good respect for them, but I think he will have a pretty healthy libido. I am not sure if he will be aggressive or not. My husband thinks we should pasture breed him, but I think we should hand breed due to the fact he is a prospect and I don't want him getting hurt. He is 4 this year My husband thought that too, but I argued and won. We went to hand breed his first mare EVER and she wasn't quite in. Would pee all over, but she was also a maiden and needed another 12 hrs probably. So she kicked at him, the stud swung around faster than a snake and kicked at her. My husband said to hell with them and put the stud in with 6 mares. They all beat the tar out of him and although he learned his lesson, he never bred any of the mares in their first cycles, he was a scared little boy. We left them well enough alone and he caught every one on their next cycle. Thank gosh that year we chose to start a month early, we needed it. That scenerio is not recommended, but my husband was a ranch kid and not much tolerance for that kind of thing. We hand bred every stud after that though first. Just made sure the mare was really receptive. Sounds like I should discuss it some more with my husband to see if I can convince him, the first mare I want to breed him to is maiden, so I'd like to help the situation not get too hairy scary. Thanks! Honestly---that is not the best of combinations. Be nice to find an older broodie, he will go to jump and she'll go to running and it will be a trainwreck. JMO
I agree with Mighty Broke... I see a hurt horse or handler... | |
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 Regular
Posts: 64
| Interesting info. Not to thread jack but how hard is it to get a 2-3 yo stud to mount a dummy? I can get a good tease mare. | |
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Member
Posts: 11
| IRunOnFaith - 2015-02-24 3:59 PM
Mighty Broke - 2015-02-24 3:21 PM MissNDBRAlex - 2015-02-24 3:25 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2015-02-24 2:09 PM MissNDBRAlex - 2015-02-24 12:03 PM Thanks for the response! He has been turned out with geldings and has pretty good respect for them, but I think he will have a pretty healthy libido. I am not sure if he will be aggressive or not. My husband thinks we should pasture breed him, but I think we should hand breed due to the fact he is a prospect and I don't want him getting hurt. He is 4 this year My husband thought that too, but I argued and won. We went to hand breed his first mare EVER and she wasn't quite in. Would pee all over, but she was also a maiden and needed another 12 hrs probably. So she kicked at him, the stud swung around faster than a snake and kicked at her. My husband said to hell with them and put the stud in with 6 mares. They all beat the tar out of him and although he learned his lesson, he never bred any of the mares in their first cycles, he was a scared little boy. We left them well enough alone and he caught every one on their next cycle. Thank gosh that year we chose to start a month early, we needed it. That scenerio is not recommended, but my husband was a ranch kid and not much tolerance for that kind of thing. We hand bred every stud after that though first. Just made sure the mare was really receptive. Sounds like I should discuss it some more with my husband to see if I can convince him, the first mare I want to breed him to is maiden, so I'd like to help the situation not get too hairy scary. Thanks! Honestly---that is not the best of combinations. Be nice to find an older broodie, he will go to jump and she'll go to running and it will be a trainwreck. JMO
We are not novice horse handlers, Just wanted to see which would be the better option (pasture vs in hand) I have lurked on this board for quite some time and it seems that people love to derail a topic, I should have known better | |
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Member
Posts: 11
| Calamity Krystal - 2015-02-24 4:26 PM
Interesting info. Not to thread jack but how hard is it to get a 2-3 yo stud to mount a dummy? I can get a good tease mare.
I have been wondering about this too! Thanks for asking, am interested in replies | |
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | MissNDBRAlex - 2015-02-24 4:27 PM IRunOnFaith - 2015-02-24 3:59 PM Mighty Broke - 2015-02-24 3:21 PM MissNDBRAlex - 2015-02-24 3:25 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2015-02-24 2:09 PM MissNDBRAlex - 2015-02-24 12:03 PM Thanks for the response! He has been turned out with geldings and has pretty good respect for them, but I think he will have a pretty healthy libido. I am not sure if he will be aggressive or not. My husband thinks we should pasture breed him, but I think we should hand breed due to the fact he is a prospect and I don't want him getting hurt. He is 4 this year My husband thought that too, but I argued and won. We went to hand breed his first mare EVER and she wasn't quite in. Would pee all over, but she was also a maiden and needed another 12 hrs probably. So she kicked at him, the stud swung around faster than a snake and kicked at her. My husband said to hell with them and put the stud in with 6 mares. They all beat the tar out of him and although he learned his lesson, he never bred any of the mares in their first cycles, he was a scared little boy. We left them well enough alone and he caught every one on their next cycle. Thank gosh that year we chose to start a month early, we needed it. That scenerio is not recommended, but my husband was a ranch kid and not much tolerance for that kind of thing. We hand bred every stud after that though first. Just made sure the mare was really receptive. Sounds like I should discuss it some more with my husband to see if I can convince him, the first mare I want to breed him to is maiden, so I'd like to help the situation not get too hairy scary. Thanks! Honestly---that is not the best of combinations. Be nice to find an older broodie, he will go to jump and she'll go to running and it will be a trainwreck. JMO We are not novice horse handlers, Just wanted to see which would be the better option (pasture vs in hand ) I have lurked on this board for quite some time and it seems that people love to derail a topic, I should have known better
I appologize. I didn't mean to imply you were a novice at all. Just stated I saw someone getting hurt with the information I was provided per your thread.
I wasn't trying to "derail" a topic. Simply stating my opinion of covering a maiden mare with a stud that had no experience with live cover. Just didn't think it was a good idea was all...
I am sorry, Didn't mean to offend you or anyone.  | |
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 Troll Patrol
Posts: 7298
Location: Greenville Texas | We taught ours a couple of ways...when we started out hand breeding him we enforced MINDING his manners and OBEYing us...we didnt let him rush to the mare and spent alot of time letting him know if we said Whoa or back away....that he would do just that. That way he wasnt a maniac on the end of a lead rope.
Later we put a very very old mare in a large pen with him.She was peppy enough to wallop him if he needed it but arthritic enough not to be able to kick him to death...so each way he learned to respect the mare....and also learned to respect us. | |
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 Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712
Location: That part of Texas | brushycreekfarm - 2015-02-24 4:46 PM We taught ours a couple of ways...when we started out hand breeding him we enforced MINDING his manners and OBEYing us...we didnt let him rush to the mare and spent alot of time letting him know if we said Whoa or back away....that he would do just that. That way he wasnt a maniac on the end of a lead rope.
Later we put a very very old mare in a large pen with him.She was peppy enough to wallop him if he needed it but arthritic enough not to be able to kick him to death...so each way he learned to respect the mare....and also learned to respect us.
This is how my breeder friends handle their new studs. They also try to match them up the first few times with mares who are more forgiving so that they get confident in how things go and learn their jobs much easier.
I've seen trainwrecks where inexperienced studs and mares happened and it's not pretty so while it's not popular advice, I can see why some are posting about it on here. I know one of my friends has pretty much given up on matching her stud to a certain mare because of a bad fiasco when she was a maiden and he was not as experienced. He won't go near her even now -- no matter how ready she is. I guess getting double barreled in the chest by a uncooperative mare tends to have an ill effect on the libido. | |
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 Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | I have a mare who will knock down fences, stall doors pretty much anything when she is in heat backing up to anything that might breed her. She will stand there and wait forever on a stallion. If I had a young stallion she is the kind of mare I'd look for even if it wasn't my "perfect" cross. After he was confident I'd move on to the maiden mares.
Edited by equussynergy 2015-02-24 5:34 PM
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Member
Posts: 11
| IRunOnFaith - 2015-02-24 4:38 PM
MissNDBRAlex - 2015-02-24 4:27 PM IRunOnFaith - 2015-02-24 3:59 PM Mighty Broke - 2015-02-24 3:21 PM MissNDBRAlex - 2015-02-24 3:25 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2015-02-24 2:09 PM MissNDBRAlex - 2015-02-24 12:03 PM Thanks for the response! He has been turned out with geldings and has pretty good respect for them, but I think he will have a pretty healthy libido. I am not sure if he will be aggressive or not. My husband thinks we should pasture breed him, but I think we should hand breed due to the fact he is a prospect and I don't want him getting hurt. He is 4 this year My husband thought that too, but I argued and won. We went to hand breed his first mare EVER and she wasn't quite in. Would pee all over, but she was also a maiden and needed another 12 hrs probably. So she kicked at him, the stud swung around faster than a snake and kicked at her. My husband said to hell with them and put the stud in with 6 mares. They all beat the tar out of him and although he learned his lesson, he never bred any of the mares in their first cycles, he was a scared little boy. We left them well enough alone and he caught every one on their next cycle. Thank gosh that year we chose to start a month early, we needed it. That scenerio is not recommended, but my husband was a ranch kid and not much tolerance for that kind of thing. We hand bred every stud after that though first. Just made sure the mare was really receptive. Sounds like I should discuss it some more with my husband to see if I can convince him, the first mare I want to breed him to is maiden, so I'd like to help the situation not get too hairy scary. Thanks! Honestly---that is not the best of combinations. Be nice to find an older broodie, he will go to jump and she'll go to running and it will be a trainwreck. JMO We are not novice horse handlers, Just wanted to see which would be the better option (pasture vs in hand ) I have lurked on this board for quite some time and it seems that people love to derail a topic, I should have known better
I wasn't trying to "derail" a topic. Simply stating my opinion of covering a maiden mare with a stud that had no experience with live cover. Just didn't think it was a good idea was all...
I am sorry, Didn't mean to offend you or anyone.
Sorry, I was a little quick to being defensive. I realize it's not an ideal situation, but need to make it work. Thanks for your time in responding! | |
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Member
Posts: 11
| equussynergy - 2015-02-24 5:32 PM
I have a mare who will knock down fences, stall doors pretty much anything when she is in heat backing up to anything that might breed her. She will stand there and wait forever on a stallion. If I had a young stallion she is the kind of mare I'd look for even if it wasn't my "perfect" cross. After he was confident I'd move on to the maiden mares.
Can I borrow her? haha | |
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Member
Posts: 11
| brushycreekfarm - 2015-02-24 4:46 PM
We taught ours a couple of ways...when we started out hand breeding him we enforced MINDING his manners and OBEYing us...we didnt let him rush to the mare and spent alot of time letting him know if we said Whoa or back away....that he would do just that. That way he wasnt a maniac on the end of a lead rope.
Later we put a very very old mare in a large pen with him.She was peppy enough to wallop him if he needed it but arthritic enough not to be able to kick him to death...so each way he learned to respect the mare....and also learned to respect us.
Thanks for the tips! | |
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Member
Posts: 11
| Red Raider - 2015-02-24 5:06 PM
brushycreekfarm - 2015-02-24 4:46 PM We taught ours a couple of ways...when we started out hand breeding him we enforced MINDING his manners and OBEYing us...we didnt let him rush to the mare and spent alot of time letting him know if we said Whoa or back away....that he would do just that. That way he wasnt a maniac on the end of a lead rope.
Later we put a very very old mare in a large pen with him.She was peppy enough to wallop him if he needed it but arthritic enough not to be able to kick him to death...so each way he learned to respect the mare....and also learned to respect us.
This is how my breeder friends handle their new studs. They also try to match them up the first few times with mares who are more forgiving so that they get confident in how things go and learn their jobs much easier.
I've seen trainwrecks where inexperienced studs and mares happened and it's not pretty so while it's not popular advice, I can see why some are posting about it on here. I know one of my friends has pretty much given up on matching her stud to a certain mare because of a bad fiasco when she was a maiden and he was not as experienced. He won't go near her even now -- no matter how ready she is. I guess getting double barreled in the chest by a uncooperative mare tends to have an ill effect on the libido.
Thanks for the response! I can imagine that being kicked would kill the mood pretty quickly. He is a pretty respectful boy to the geldings he's been with, so hopefully that translates somewhat to how he will act with a mare, and hopefully she responds well. She has a good disposition also. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 489
| No matter how experienced the handler is - that first time will be a trip. They have the instinct to jump, but they really don't know where. I still laugh when I think about my husband (who was holding the mare) saying " THE SOB IS GOING TO BREED ME!!!!"
Having an easy to breed, patient - even slutty type mare is the best option. I'd probably consider kicking hobbles on a maiden mare, maybe a twitch and/or a little ACE. If you have access to another stud, might consider teasing her in a controlled situation to see how she is going to react.
Obviously, you guys have to make the decisions about how you want to handle the situation. I, personally, would not just turn 2 1st timers together. Good luck! | |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | KindaClassey - 2015-02-24 7:05 PM No matter how experienced the handler is - that first time will be a trip. They have the instinct to jump, but they really don't know where. I still laugh when I think about my husband (who was holding the mare) saying " THE SOB IS GOING TO BREED ME!!!!" Having an easy to breed, patient - even slutty type mare is the best option. I'd probably consider kicking hobbles on a maiden mare, maybe a twitch and/or a little ACE. If you have access to another stud, might consider teasing her in a controlled situation to see how she is going to react. Obviously, you guys have to make the decisions about how you want to handle the situation. I, personally, would not just turn 2 1st timers together. Good luck! Since you mentioned it, the kicking hobbles wouldn't be a bad idea. I know someone that uses it for all his mares and they work great I guess. Twitch wouldn't be bad to have around if she acts like she is not going to stand. The hard thing is unless you are ultrasounding, these mares especially maidens can act all hot and bothered and then get nervous as can be with a stud around and not want anything to do with him. I wouldn't want the mare to have a bad experience, but twitching may keep her handler safe.
Getting double barreled in the chest is the best place. In the shoulder or nuts has ended the breeding career of several stallions I know of. My own stud lost a testicle from a kick when he was about 8 yrs old. Found him swollen but not so sore he wasn't still trying. Semen tests that fall and the next spring showed he was as fertile as ever but a stallion only has 2 chances...
Edited by wyoming barrel racer 2015-02-24 8:23 PM
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 Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | It will take 4 people to take a young stallion to mount a dummy cause he will want to go around it through it and under it. If he respects the handler to the fullest and you can position him the odds will be in your favor. Also the mare must have a good handle too. Plan on several hours to get it right. The whatca macallit has to be the right temperature or the stallion wont accept it or the sperm could get killed off if to cold before you finish collecting. Good luck in what you decide. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3300
| with my stud it took about an hr to get him to do the deed... he didnt even want to make a peep... lip chain means breeding and your alowed to be a stud.. when i breed my mare she wasnt a madian but she had never been live covered... ihad her twitched lip chained and druged... there was no way that hell b@@@@ was going to kick my stud lol...she took the first shot.. and was going out the second day.. | |
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Teaching a young stud to live cover