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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
 
| Are they worth it to you and why? As a breeder, trainer, competitor? |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
 
Location: Midwest | Ff yes
The others, meh
(this is what I've heard time and time again, but for me personally none of them matter as the races my way don't have sidepote for them and I don't futurity) |
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 Can You Hear Me Now?
Location: When you hit the middle of nowhere .. Keep driving | Unless I plan on keeping the foal and it's out of my stallion. I am now only going to breed to stallions with some incentives and FF is at the top of the list. I am breeding for resale 9 times out of 10 and every little bit helps.
Eta. I don't stand my boy to the public but love his babies for me so the odd one I breed I usually keep.
Edited by ndiehl 2015-02-25 3:58 PM
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 Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | I wouldn't mind being in FF, just tell me who I have to kill to get in. |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | I wont breed to a horse anymore who isnt incentive funded. I wont buy a prospect who isnt incentive funded. It leaves way to much money on the table you arent even eligable for without it. They not only pay the owner of the horse, but they pay the stallion, and pay the breeder. Pretty nice to just have checks arriving at your house as the breeder, and/or stallion owner. FF, once you nominate those foals, you never pay another entry fee for those bonus moneys. It is a side pot you are automatically eligable for. Valley Girls ( VGBRA ) if your not by one of their incentive funded stallions, you compete for HALF the purse in their futurity! |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| My problem with FF is that it is now a comodity with speculators. They are full and dont expect to add any additional stallions after this year. So then you have to buy the slot on the Future Fortunes black market. I see this causing serious problems in the furture for this program. The cost will go up and at what point is it not worth it anymore.
Has anybody here ever actually won any FF sidepot money??
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 Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | Whiteboy - 2015-02-25 3:20 PM My problem with FF is that it is now a comodity with speculators. They are full and dont expect to add any additional stallions after this year. So then you have to buy the slot on the Future Fortunes black market. I see this causing serious problems in the furture for this program. The cost will go up and at what point is it not worth it anymore.
Has anybody here ever actually won any FF sidepot money??
What about their waiting list? |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Whiteboy - 2015-02-25 4:20 PM My problem with FF is that it is now a comodity with speculators. They are full and dont expect to add any additional stallions after this year. So then you have to buy the slot on the Future Fortunes black market. I see this causing serious problems in the furture for this program. The cost will go up and at what point is it not worth it anymore.
Has anybody here ever actually won any FF sidepot money??
I dont know about that. Horses drop out, they die, and so the door revolves. |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | http://www.futurefortunesinc.com/content/payoff-prizes |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| equussynergy - 2015-02-25 4:22 PM Whiteboy - 2015-02-25 3:20 PM My problem with FF is that it is now a comodity with speculators. They are full and dont expect to add any additional stallions after this year. So then you have to buy the slot on the Future Fortunes black market. I see this causing serious problems in the furture for this program. The cost will go up and at what point is it not worth it anymore.
Has anybody here ever actually won any FF sidepot money??
What about their waiting list?
They have a waiting list but they will no longer add any stallions from that list after this year. The stallion owner retains ownership of the slot and can sell it for no more than $2500 (but no one would when they can get more out of it on the "black market"). |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| ThreeCorners - 2015-02-25 4:24 PM Whiteboy - 2015-02-25 4:20 PM My problem with FF is that it is now a comodity with speculators. They are full and dont expect to add any additional stallions after this year. So then you have to buy the slot on the Future Fortunes black market. I see this causing serious problems in the furture for this program. The cost will go up and at what point is it not worth it anymore.
Has anybody here ever actually won any FF sidepot money??
I dont know about that. Horses drop out, they die, and so the door revolves.
Edited by Whiteboy 2015-02-25 4:35 PM
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Whiteboy - 2015-02-25 4:27 PM equussynergy - 2015-02-25 4:22 PM Whiteboy - 2015-02-25 3:20 PM My problem with FF is that it is now a comodity with speculators. They are full and dont expect to add any additional stallions after this year. So then you have to buy the slot on the Future Fortunes black market. I see this causing serious problems in the furture for this program. The cost will go up and at what point is it not worth it anymore.
Has anybody here ever actually won any FF sidepot money??
What about their waiting list?
I guess I'm not following you. If they cant sell it for more then $2500 then how would they sell it on your "Black market"? It's not like someone trying to sell it for more wouldnt be ratted out. Or am I being nieve? |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | There are other incentives besides just FF. BBR just started a new incentive program and alot of super horses jumped in. That incentive is going to grow big time and very quickly. There is also Triple Crown 100 and PESI, through the WPRA. |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| ThreeCorners - 2015-02-25 4:37 PM There are other incentives besides just FF. BBR just started a new incentive program and alot of super horses jumped in. That incentive is going to grow big time and very quickly. There is also Triple Crown 100 and PESI, through the WPRA.
I agree that there are others that do a great job, such as Triple Crown,VGBRA, BRN4D and others. People put alot of emphasis on FF, which is fine but it comes at a cost which gets passed onto the buyers of these young foals. I see lots of complaining about the price of a foal, but yet they expect everybody to be enrolled in everything! |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Here is the BBR Select Stallion Stakes. http://www.bbrdata.com/Updater/uploads/Stallion/SSSPacket.pdf |
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 Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | I live in the middle of all of the northern breeders futurities so I have my stallions enrolled in about everything that there is available with breeders incentives.
I especially like the programs like the 5 State Breeders, Future Fortunes, WPRA PESI, Hawki, JJ Classic, ect that have the stallion owner paybacks. I've gotten several checks as the stallion owner, from offspring that have placed in these incentives.
I pay all of my home-raised prospects into everything that I can, also, since there is so much money to run at, at the breeders incentives.
I won't pass a nice prospect up if it's not got eligibilities, but it's sure nice if they are able to run at some of the breeders $$$$ when looking to purchase one.
I've had several people breed to our stallions and buy foals from us because they are eligible for so many programs. I believe it's entirely worth it.
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| Amy, are both your stallions FF? |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Whiteboy - 2015-02-25 4:24 PM
Amy, are both your stallions FF?
I sure wish they would have said this was their plan when I called and took my Stoli stud off the list. I guess I should have kept him on there to use that spot in the future. Or sold to Whiteboy for $5k  |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| wyoming barrel racer - 2015-02-25 5:27 PM Whiteboy - 2015-02-25 4:24 PM Amy, are both your stallions FF? I sure wish they would have said this was their plan when I called and took my Stoli stud off the list. I guess I should have kept him on there to use that spot in the future. Or sold to Whiteboy for $5k
You are such a hustler! lol I probably would have paid it...reluctantly. |
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | Whiteboy - 2015-02-25 5:24 PM Amy, are both your stallions FF? Pablo is not but I have him paid into everything up here in the north & the PESI program since a lot of his babies are rodeo horses.
We don't breed many mares to him so I can't afford to have him in FF since we only get a half dozen babies a year from him.
We have Firewater Finale paid into about everything because we breed enough mares to justify the expense every year.
ETA and to answer the question about if anyone ever actually gets incentive checks----for an example---- One year Pablo had a colt do well @ the 5 State Breeders Futurity and I got a check in the mail for $1500. Cost me $750 to pay him in. That's just one example. I've had my annual nominations paid several times from the JJ Classic, the PESI, Hawki, BRIF, and some of the other stallion payback programs through $$$ won by offspring.
If you don't look at paying into anything else, look at the ones that pay you back.
Edited by rockinas 2015-02-25 6:01 PM
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| If you don't live up North most of those incentives do not have much importance since few trainers from around here run in them. FF is nice if you plan on running in BFA futurities from birth. Look at the horses enrolled in the program by stallion and see how many people do enroll their foals. I usually pick three horses that will cross well with my mare and of those three the one that owner that gives me the best deal is the one I go with. Some of these owners are big into racing and have no interest in barrel racing. So, long story short, I look at the horses's merit and breeding more. |
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Expert
Posts: 3147
| There are few FF races where I race and I don't do the futurity/derby route so I stopped narrowing my search for FF horses only. It is free money and that's nice, however. |
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | Another thing when prospect shopping is that some will be advertised as "eligible for Future Fortunes". You want to ask if they are paid in, or not.
The older they get the more expensive it gets. I've got 2 Tres Seis daughters here that I bought that are "Future Fortunes eligible" but weren't paid in. (I knew they weren't when I bought them both but I liked them well enough to buy anyway and they'll likely either be started and resold or retained by us for broodmares eventually). Now because of their ages it would be $1500-2500 to enroll them. I am probably not going to bother with paying them at those prices, even though there are several Future Fortunes races in my area. I sure wish the people that raised them from babies, would have paid that $150 to enroll as weanlings.
And it's not just that program that gets more expensive to enroll into as the offspring get older, there are several of them have an increased fee for older offspring up to a certain age.
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Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | It doesn't matter to me, I like mine off the track and most of those would not be on the FF list. Or any other incentives for that matter. |
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Incentive programs such as Future Fortunes