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Location: Cocoa, Florida | I have a mare that Likes to tuck her head with any pressure in her mouth, I can cruise the pattern in an o ring with a twisted wire but any faster and she tends to over run, im not heavy handed I usually twist and look and keep my hands low, she will usually rate herself, sometimes she over runs the 1st by a stride - Heres my dilemma; I need her round, soft and supple, if I ride her in a hack she tends to stiffen up but she doesn't tuck her head. I have a medium shank smooth mouth snaffle with a tiny bit of lift on her now and she will still wad up around the barrels if I touch her to much. I need something that will keep the bend not stiffen her up, that's not to hard but not to light, any suggestions?
(I hope I'm making sense)
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| What about a sweet six with a twisted wire dog bone mouth? Lift, more control, and the twisted wire will keep her supple. |
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | I've tried that one I have a few of them, no luck |
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Posts: 1898
| Goosetree Simplicity with no curb? |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| L and w sells a mullem mouth that is pretty thick add waddell uses them they have a little shank and will keep one from folding up and over tucking. |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | cyount2009 - 2015-02-26 1:52 PM Goosetree Simplicity with no curb?
Yes!! |
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 Veteran
Posts: 212
| If the shanks are what bothers her but you lack control. try an o ring with a noseband, not a stiff one but just a rope one. Or one of the orings with another ring attached to the o. Mine has two but they make ones with just one. Or maybe on your shank bit experiment with chin straps,.. if you have a chain one loosen it or try leather...etc.. Also snaffles put pressure on the bars, maybe experiment with a bit that is more pressure on the corners or one that pressures the tongue.. Maybe the bar pressure is what your horse doesn't like. I run in a hack and know what you mean about the stiffness, but since she doesn't tuck with that maybe a very light combo bit would work. Like a mullen o ring with noseband? or maybe a different hack? What hack did you use |
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | L and W is who suggested the bit that I have on her now to run in but she still talking her head, i've got a whole collection of bits and have tried different ones I'm trying to stay away from anything that is too much for her. She has a deadhead when you exercise her or walk trot and lopes a pattern but she knows once it's time to run she is pretty much unstoppable, so I need just a little bit more.
She's four so I don't want to get into using anything really heavy, I have a tried the O-ring with a rope notice and also the O-ring with the double 0, she still talked her head.
I work her and big nice circles around the barrels even tight circles and she seems very freed up but once I put that heavier bit on her and make a run she still wads up a little bit.
Is this something that she will eventually come out of? I try not to touch her at all during our run but she's so fast and strong sometimes I have to. |
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | I apologize for any spelling and grammar errors I'm talk texting on my phone |
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Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | 
Edited by RnRJack 2015-02-26 11:08 PM
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  Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
Location: Dubach, LA | I agree with the mullen suggestion, but I'm gonna say borrow, don't buy. I would also encourage you to video some runs to make sure you are riding consistently. Is she more likely to be over-bendy at certain arenas? |
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 IMA No Hair Style Gal
Posts: 2594
| I know a certain bit professional that could help you. :-) |
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | I have lots of videos, it's any rein pressure at all and that head goes, the more pulling the more she tucks, so I have to be as light handed as I can if I get to heavy she wads up, but I still have to help her in her turns. She's really starting to rate on her own but she's also getting a lot faster and that wadding up in the turns is slowing our runs down |
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas | Honestly... Your mare is only four and what I see isn't a bit problem but a rate and turn issue. If you try to fix this with a bit you aren't going to fix it for the long term. Plus, it's going to cost you a lot of time in your runs. If you need to help her it should only be on the backside after you have started into your turn and then you can maybe "help" her just a bit to finish it.
Get her to rate those barrels on her own so she doesn't need that help from you and you will have smoother faster runs and a way happier horse... and rider! ;)
Good luck!
PS... I think your reins are a little short as well. Sorry about all the unsolicited advice... just ignore it if you want, lol.
Edited by grinandbareit 2015-02-26 10:06 PM
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Expert
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Location: Cocoa, Florida | I understand what you're saying and I've said over and over that yes she's still young, she's now learning and starting to rate on her own, what I'm really looking for is something to keep her freed up a little bit. I'm not heavy handed, im not looking for a harder bit to help her turn i'm looking for something that she won't tuck her head in to much, it's any light pressure and she does it. It's not even all the time and I asked if this is something she will grow out of, I've had many that break great in the poll and stay collected in their turns without wadding up like that.
When I do my slow work or exhibitions I use an o ring with a twisted wire and I always ride in split reins, everything is coming together I just need to try some different mouth pieces and I ask advice on here because bits are not my strongest subject. I know the basics that's it. This is also the first filly I've trained myself so im happy we've come this far.
Edited by RnRJack 2015-02-26 10:34 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 477
Location: Lost in the swamps | Second picture looks like she is obviously over flexed in the head, neck but not following thru with her shoulders,possibly not bending in the rib cage either, chiro to see if her she doesn't have a rib out, try some reining spin with her head and neck straighter and have her cross over on her front feet when you bump(not pull) that inside rein. |
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | I just had her worked on the week before that show, i have mine chiropracted regularly, she was definitely not shaped well for the turn like the other pictures. I get frustrated because we can lope perfect circles around the barrels from both directions usually.
She really wants to be square and I've done my best to keep her round, soft and supple. She doesn't tuck her head with my jim Warner Hack but that seems to keep her more stiff.
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I agree .. at 4 Id probrably do some basic body work.not ride her head but get her body flexible... get her body supple and bending thru her ribs..do slow work with her... and reins are short and I was thinking it appears outside is held to tight and she cant even think to bend in that one photo.. she needs room to be supple. jmo |
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Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| I'm as usual the odd man out- but I had one like that once and when I added a tie-down he learned that he liked to push up on that for stability, the head and neck curling went away- just a thought- good luck! |
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Location: Texas | Try a combo for balance |
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Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | Ok something else a tight browband will keep one from over flexing and keep the I ring on her |
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | I appreciate everyone's opinions, and what you're telling me to do I've said I've been doing, (or I will try) my question is I'm looking for a bit that is the best for a horse who breaks over to much in the pole.
I do my slow work and will continue to do what I need to do necessary to perfect everything as we're always going one step forward, two steps backwards! I work with a great wpra trainer on a weekly basis so I'm doing everything I can do to improve myself and my horses, I guess I'm just really trying to learn more about the bits and what can and can't help at this point with this issue.
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Go For It!
Location: Texas | RnRJack - 2015-02-27 7:02 AM
I appreciate everyone's opinions, and what you're telling me to do I've said I've been doing, (or I will try) my question is I'm looking for a bit that is the best for a horse who breaks over to much in the pole.
I do my slow work and will continue to do what I need to do necessary to perfect everything as we're always going one step forward, two steps backwards! I work with a great wpra trainer on a weekly basis so I'm doing everything I can do to improve myself and my horses, I guess I'm just really trying to learn more about the bits and what can and can't help at this point with this issue.
Let me give you my advice without padding it up... That way other people who read this thread can learn from it as well...
Unfortunately there is not a bit that will help with this... Some horses get away from the bit by throwing their head in the air and others tuck their face... Bad hands and lack of feel cause both issues, once they develop that habit you need to have the experience to know how to fix it. My advice to you is to put a little Freeman Gag on that mare and get some help learning how to fix it. That is the bit I would use on her.
I don't want to make you feel defensive or bash your trainer, but if the two of you don't get this fixed it is going to turn into a big problem, a problem that should not have developed if you were receiving quality help and doing what your trainer said, unless your trainer doesn't know how to fix it. This mare will start running through your hands, if she isn't already, and you may even have trouble stopping her when you really need to. Horses that do this are hard to fix and you have to really know what your are doing. Your horse is only four and has a lifetime of barrel racing ahead of her. Don't try to do some quick fix, do it right and you will not regret the extra time you put into making it right. Trust me on this... I've been doing this a LONG time and I have seen lots of different scenarios... You have the opportunity here to start over and get it right, you should take advantage of it.
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Expert
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Location: Cocoa, Florida | I appreciate your advice, and totally concur and comprehend what you're saying.
May I start by saying this was something she did when I bought her and I've never had to deal with fixing it so I appreciate any help. |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | So, I have one like yours, he WILL not run up into the bit-shakes his head, gaps his mouth etc. I've put a draw gag on him to get him used to the pressure and the release, I've use the simplicity that I first recommended, no difference, this horse has the most beautiful headset, breaks at the poll, flexes nicely, rounds his back etc. Teeth have been done, I'm only assuming he has some sort of metal sensitivity (i've tried stainless steel and sweet iron in his mouth) finally gave up and went with a side pull, then a beetle, little s and now run him in a carls hack from l and w WITH a tiedown http://lwbits.com/Hackamores.html he has an awesome headset (yes I know I'm repeating) so every now and then I try to run him without the tie down and as soon as he gets in a little bit of a tight situation he will flick his head and remind me he NEEDS the tie down-even though in all of my video, he never ever gets close to touching it. Why not continue with the jim warner?? I've learned that some will NEVER get better AND you will spend A LOT of time and money trying to get to the right place. I would also suggest visiting with ronnie clampitt about his hacks-he's very knowledgeable and even though I don't have any of my horses riding in the hack he made me, I probably will never get rid of it, sure gives a different feel and that might be my go to bit if the Carls hack quits working for my big rig :) |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| I would go back to putting a simple O-ring in her mouth. Leave it a little looser than normal, and when she breaks over to avoid the bit start lifting on the reins but do it in pulses. getting the bit to bounce in her mouth but not pulling on her. I don't know if this is making any sense, it is much easier to show then write out. when she is where she needs to be stop moving your hands and open up, letting her work. she starts to duck her face, start bouncing your hands again until she is back to where she needs to be. You'll be making the wrong thing annoying and the right thing easy... You also won't get in a tug a war contest with her with will just make the issue worse. You can do the same thing with a horse that never wants to walk and always has that jig.... it wont' make them high headed because you're not pulling and tugging on them but rather making it very annoying to not just walk. |
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Expert
Posts: 1815
| I've had 2 horses tht did this when they were first running , and both were on the track........I think it came from being track worked in draw reins. Both horses came around with a tender touch........when the mare would start to overtuck, I would actually bump her mouth a little bringing my hands up.....when her head came up a little, I would leave her alone. To this day, I cannot ride her in a 2 piece or she goes back to it, but a 3 piece bit is what brought them out of it. As far as running through the bit, that's what a chinstrap is for. Tightening the chinstrap and going from a leather to a chain worked well .......I dropped the tender touch and went with the simplicity after a while. One horse uses a tight chinstrap, the other no chinstrap. |
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Expert
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Location: Cocoa, Florida | LMS - 2015-02-27 9:33 AM
So, I have one like yours, he WILL not run up into the bit-shakes his head, gaps his mouth etc. I've put a draw gag on him to get him used to the pressure and the release, I've use the simplicity that I first recommended, no difference, this horse has the most beautiful headset, breaks at the poll, flexes nicely, rounds his back etc. Teeth have been done, I'm only assuming he has some sort of metal sensitivity (i've tried stainless steel and sweet iron in his mouth) finally gave up and went with a side pull, then a beetle, little s and now run him in a carls hack from l and w WITH a tiedown http://lwbits.com/Hackamores.html he has an awesome headset (yes I know I'm repeating) so every now and then I try to run him without the tie down and as soon as he gets in a little bit of a tight situation he will flick his head and remind me he NEEDS the tie down-even though in all of my video, he never ever gets close to touching it. Why not continue with the jim warner?? I've learned that some will NEVER get better AND you will spend A LOT of time and money trying to get to the right place. I would also suggest visiting with ronnie clampitt about his hacks-he's very knowledgeable and even though I don't have any of my horses riding in the hack he made me, I probably will never get rid of it, sure gives a different feel and that might be my go to bit if the Carls hack quits working for my big rig :)
I had a long talk with a reputable trainer last night (thank you, you know who you are) and they suggested letting her be square rather then round the barrels since that's the way she wants to run, that way when I put the hack on her she doesn't duck her head she's just more square and snappy. It's a harder style (for me) to ride but she still clocks and turns fast. I learned the ride the Kim Landry style horse first, then I went to a very old school round/pocket version of riding, now I run two mares that have completely different styles.
I will work on all the slow work like everyone suggested I just need help finding what can help the slightest bit with her head set.
This is not a problem that I taught her, she was broke as a 2 year old and turned out when I got her she was just being legged up again and she always tucked and gave tremendously at the poll which I liked but now the slightest tough and she gives. She doesn't always do it and I try not to touch her much in her turns but she's still young and needs my guidance.
Thank you for all of your thoughts and opinions |
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Location: Cocoa, Florida | mouse - 2015-02-27 10:27 AM
I've had 2 horses tht did this when they were first running , and both were on the track........I think it came from being track worked in draw reins. Both horses came around with a tender touch........when the mare would start to overtuck, I would actually bump her mouth a little bringing my hands up.....when her head came up a little, I would leave her alone. To this day, I cannot ride her in a 2 piece or she goes back to it, but a 3 piece bit is what brought them out of it. As far as running through the bit, that's what a chinstrap is for. Tightening the chinstrap and going from a leather to a chain worked well .......I dropped the tender touch and went with the simplicity after a while. One horse uses a tight chinstrap, the other no chinstrap.
I have a simplicity bit, she doesn't need much curb she is light when it comes to stopping (I teach all mine the one rein stop)
I will try that out, she is track bred but I don't know what they used to break her in |
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Expert
Posts: 1815
| You can also experiement with hand position on your reins........my gelding will definitely wad up in his turns if I have much inside rein.......goes against the grain, but if I use short reins and keep one hand in the middle, he flows through his turns and does well........the more distance between your reins, the more bend you will get. That's why I like the simplicity, you can get bend by just twisting your wrist a little instead of using a lot of inside rein, and still keep forward momentem
Edited by mouse 2015-02-27 10:34 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | I also wonder if her shorter neck plays a roll, she has a short almost U neck, she's filled out now but I'm sure confirmation plays a roll, my gelding and other mare both have long necks and they stick their heads out and wrap the barrels |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1056
Location: somewhere in the middle | I would be trying to add a tie down or probably a bonnet for her to lean or push on. I don't use tie-down as a matter of course but you gotta do what you gotta do. You can't rate one down with a bit without getting g in their way. It looks like a bonnet or a combination tie down would be just the thing for her. |
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Expert
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Location: Cocoa, Florida | scarletohara - 2015-02-27 10:48 AM
I would be trying to add a tie down or probably a bonnet for her to lean or push on. I don't use tie-down as a matter of course but you gotta do what you gotta do. You can't rate one down with a bit without getting g in their way. It looks like a bonnet or a combination tie down would be just the thing for her.
I'm not a fan of bonnets, I feel like that would make it worse, if her head is already coming down with the slightest pressure why would I want to put that on her? I understand the concept of a bonnet and making them drive from the rear end but that's not the issue, I'd be afraid to use anything that would make it worse......does that make sense?
I do like to use German martingales just to exercise them in once or twice a week but I stay away from anything that will further cause her to drop her head |
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | Here's a photo her her, I use split reins any time I ride, this was an exhibition
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Expert
Posts: 1898
| RnRJack - 2015-02-27 10:56 AM
scarletohara - 2015-02-27 10:48 AM
I would be trying to add a tie down or probably a bonnet for her to lean or push on. I don't use tie-down as a matter of course but you gotta do what you gotta do. You can't rate one down with a bit without getting g in their way. It looks like a bonnet or a combination tie down would be just the thing for her.
I'm not a fan of bonnets, I feel like that would make it worse, if her head is already coming down with the slightest pressure why would I want to put that on her? I understand the concept of a bonnet and making them drive from the rear end but that's not the issue, I'd be afraid to use anything that would make it worse......does that make sense?
I do like to use German martingales just to exercise them in once or twice a week but I stay away from anything that will further cause her to drop her head
The mare in my avatar would lower her head really bad for a long time. So low that she would drag her nose through the dirt. Not the same reaction you are getting but kind of the same behavior in a round about way. She was either trying to evade pressure or looking for stability. I tried a tie down and that made it worse so I went to a browband tie down and had my husband modify me a Goosetree Delight with a chain mouth, he made me one with shorter shanks. It helps tremendously. She was able to stabilize herself on the browband tie down but the bit gave me just enough rate and flex without being way too much. Just a thought and maybe worth a try. After all, it never hurts to try.
I know you said she is only 4 but have you had her teeth looked at? I was having terrible issues with my gelding as a 4 year old and he had some pretty bad dental issues.
Also, I would take the German Martingale off for a while even in dry work and see what that does.
You might want to try a chain mouth piece or waterford with a light shank or even snaffle rings. Back to dental and mouth issues she may have a shallow pallet. A mullen would be good if she does have shallow pallet but you might lose flex. The waterford breaks like a chain but still applies mild pressure to the pallet, points of pressure to the tongue lips and bars and the chain does not apply pressure to the pallet but applies more pressure to the tongue, lips and bars.
Just some things to think about. First and foremost if you haven't been down that avenue yet I would have her teeth looked at. Then I would start playing with bits.
Edited by cyount2009 2015-02-27 11:37 AM
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | RnRJack - 2015-02-27 10:56 AM scarletohara - 2015-02-27 10:48 AM I would be trying to add a tie down or probably a bonnet for her to lean or push on. I don't use tie-down as a matter of course but you gotta do what you gotta do. You can't rate one down with a bit without getting g in their way. It looks like a bonnet or a combination tie down would be just the thing for her. I'm not a fan of bonnets, I feel like that would make it worse, if her head is already coming down with the slightest pressure why would I want to put that on her? I understand the concept of a bonnet and making them drive from the rear end but that's not the issue, I'd be afraid to use anything that would make it worse......does that make sense? I do like to use German martingales just to exercise them in once or twice a week but I stay away from anything that will further cause her to drop her head
Quite limiting yourself! Just because you don't like something or you're not a fan, doesn't mean the horse isn't! I agreed with the simplicity recommendation on one of the first responses here, I still think that is one of the best options for this mare.
All horses are different! (even though she came to you that way doesn't mean that you would have had a different result had you had her from the first ride) I've trained and rode a half dozen horses from their first trip to their finished stage and EVERY one of them has their preference for head gear and I'm not talking closely related headgear I'm talking all across the board options! These are lifelong horses for us, we do what makes them the best ride possible because they live with us their entire lives and we use them to our greatest means too. |
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Veteran
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| as far as what you said about the hack and the style.. I have a horse that is very flexy and I love an inside rein type turner, but she did the same as your mare and is just slower like that even when the turns feel so round and pretty.. It is kinda scary/ different at first in a hack as it stiffer and snappier and less ability to move in or out at last minute to avoid hitting but this horse is 1d big show in a hack and cant even place in the 2d in a bit.. Just try some different hacks and make a few runs,yall will both get more comfortable with it when she finds her groove in a hack and you feel it out to adjust your timing for it.. On my horse I just two hand rate her down lightly, sit, then drop my outside when my leg is bedside the barrel and she snaps back, and like the others said, try getting her rating in the right spot then not touching until your guiding her to leave |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | I was going to recommend a bonnet as well, and a Clampitt hack. A bonnet does not necessarily keep the head down, and her head is not down in the turning pictures, she's just hiding her face. A bonnet will keep her together from front to back and will give her something to balance on, making her more collected and less able to hide her face. I have one that is a lot like this and that's the combination I used on him. Eventually, I could take the bonnet off, but I ran for awhile with it. I like a Clampitt hack for one like this. It takes the "trap" off their head and will really free one up in the turn. The only negative about it is that sometimes they tend to get a little front endy in it, and then I put the bonnet on to get that butt up under them and make them round the back. Good luck. It can be frustrating to ride one like this. Grinandbareit is right, but I typically just get out of their mouths completely (as in a hack) if I have one like this, and with a Clampitt or the other headgear I use, you CAN flex them some....but mostly, I do teach them the square turn and just let them turn it themselves.
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Expert
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Location: Cocoa, Florida | dianeguinn - 2015-02-27 12:01 PM
I was going to recommend a bonnet as well, and a Clampitt hack. A bonnet does not necessarily keep the head down, and her head is not down in the turning pictures, she's just hiding her face. A bonnet will keep her together from front to back and will give her something to balance on, making her more collected and less able to hide her face. I have one that is a lot like this and that's the combination I used on him. Eventually, I could take the bonnet off, but I ran for awhile with it. I like a Clampitt hack for one like this. It takes the "trap" off their head and will really free one up in the turn. The only negative about it is that sometimes they tend to get a little front endy in it, and then I put the bonnet on to get that butt up under them and make them round the back. Good luck. It can be frustrating to ride one like this. Grinandbareit is right, but I typically just get out of their mouths completely (as in a hack) if I have one like this, and with a Clampitt or the other headgear I use, you CAN flex them some....but mostly, I do teach them the square turn and just let them turn it themselves.
Can someone send me a picture of the type of bonnet I can try? When I think bonnet I just think of seeing these peoples horses tied down to theor chest but you're right I need to try what I can and see what works. And a picture of the bit Diane is talking about?
Diane I wrote you a private message because you know a lot about the packin sixes horses and if this is typical behavior. Along with the other things I asked you, thanks for your advice and sorry of I've been on the defense it's just because I try so hard to do things the right way.
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Expert
Posts: 1898
| http://www.barrelracingsuperstore.com/search.php?search_query=bonne...
http://www.barrelracingsuperstore.com/7761-browband-tie-down/
Edited by cyount2009 2015-02-27 12:19 PM
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Worlds Greatest Laugh
Location: North Dakota | I might be one of the few people that think its not about the bit. I can tell you from experience and fixing 2-3 of these type of horses that its sooooo not about the bit that I just want to scream. But thats just me.
The reason why your finding it difficult to fix and not getting far..fast...is because as barrel racers we make everything about the face, the head, the front of the horse. This problem is REALLY about the backend and the horse not respecting your ques to move forward and move their feet. I can GUARANTEE (about 99.9%) of the time its about a horse thats not been taught to move up properly from BEHIND into the bit.
I know alot of times we think to ourselves "oh no, your wrong. My horse is properly broke, is soft, is responsive". I'm telling you a horse thats throwing their head, hiding behind the bit, doing all this other stuff that your saying...99% will have a body control issue and not a face issue. Putting less bridle on isnt always the answer because they will just lean downward on it. I can also guarantee if you dont ride her up from behind PROPERLY its tough tough tough to fix.
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Lady Di
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Location: Oklahoma | RnRJack - 2015-02-27 11:03 AM
Here's a photo her her, I use split reins any time I ride, this was an exhibition
See, in this pic, this mare is not carrying herself correctly. She's got her head up, her back hollowed out, and she's not driving up underneath with her hind legs. A bonnet will help that. In my opinion, the German martingale is not helping your problem. She needs to collect from the back end and round her back. Tiedowns pull in the nose and she's already breaking at the poll too much, so not sure a tiedown would help. A bonnet, though, would allow her to get her nose out while keeping her ears down. JMO |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| If you say she is wadding up and staying too square then she sounds more of a roll back style. She's probably naturally very light mouthed from what your describing. I'd focus on getting her moving her front end quicker around the barrels because if she is wadding up she's probably getting hung up on the backside. I'd like to see a video. She's just four and probably takes those extra strides past the barrel because she doesn't know how to move her front end on around quickly and gets "tangled" on the back side. Usually most people have good luck with a twisted wire bonnet and a short shank bit on these types of horses. No draw reins or other gimmicks on horses with naturally light mouths, cherish that light mouth it is a gift! Using those gimmicks will just give her NO release and make her mouth hard. |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
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Location: North Dakota | Runnincat - 2015-02-27 12:18 PM I might be one of the few people that think its not about the bit. I can tell you from experience and fixing 2-3 of these type of horses that its sooooo not about the bit that I just want to scream. But thats just me.
The reason why your finding it difficult to fix and not getting far..fast...is because as barrel racers we make everything about the face, the head, the front of the horse. This problem is REALLY about the backend and the horse not respecting your ques to move forward and move their feet. I can GUARANTEE (about 99.9%) of the time its about a horse thats not been taught to move up properly from BEHIND into the bit.
I know alot of times we think to ourselves "oh no, your wrong. My horse is properly broke, is soft, is responsive". I'm telling you a horse thats throwing their head, hiding behind the bit, doing all this other stuff that your saying...99% will have a body control issue and not a face issue. Putting less bridle on isnt always the answer because they will just lean downward on it. I can also guarantee if you dont ride her up from behind PROPERLY its tough tough tough to fix.
And sometimes you need someone like Runnincat to ride your horse and remind you the things you once knew! 
I always ASSUME that when someone comes on here wanting a bit change that they have tried EVERYTHING they possibly can to fix the problem before resorting to a bit change. |
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Go For It!
Location: Texas | dianeguinn - 2015-02-27 1:11 PM
RnRJack - 2015-02-27 11:03 AM
Here's a photo her her, I use split reins any time I ride, this was an exhibition
See, in this pic, this mare is not carrying herself correctly. She's got her head up, her back hollowed out, and she's not driving up underneath with her hind legs. A bonnet will help that. In my opinion, the German martingale is not helping your problem. She needs to collect from the back end and round her back. Tiedowns pull in the nose and she's already breaking at the poll too much, so not sure a tiedown would help. A bonnet, though, would allow her to get her nose out while keeping her ears down. JMO
For those that are following this I want to point something out here... Sorry RnR I'm going to use you to get it done, lol. This is stuff that all barrel racers need to learn. (Then I'll watch and help you). If you look at this picture the horse is in the same frame as the rider. She is mimicking the rider's body position. The rider's hands are elevated, she is leaning forward and riding heavy in her stirrups... It has the mare more hollow through her back which causes her to be a bit "strung out" and not using her "motor" (rear end) properly. The correct way to get a horse into frame is to sit deep in your saddle pushing your pelvis forward, low hands held just above your pommel, keep less weight in the stirrups and use your thighs more than your feet when doing slow work or exercising. Your horse will mimic that body position as well. But first we need to fix that issue of avoiding the bit.
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Expert
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Location: Cocoa, Florida | Use me and abuse me as long as I learn something!
And yA it would be nice to have someone ride and train my horses...but then I may never learn :) |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | RnRJack - 2015-02-27 3:07 PM Use me and abuse me as long as I learn something! And yA it would be nice to have someone ride and train my horses...but then I may never learn :)
Just to clarify Runnincat rode my gelding for 20 minutes one time to help remind me of the things I needed to do and to clear up my frustration.
One thing I learned long ago, is don't be afraid of suggestions, learning is a process that takes MANY failures before you get it right, never be too afraid to ask someone to get on and give it a whirl, feel is only as good as the rider on the horses back and even after those horses (and 30 yrs experience)I've trained I still need someone else to blow the cobwebs out from time to time. :) |
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Veteran
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| Those who are talking about riding the hindend getting round lifting the back thus driving the hocks up underneath the horse are right on!!! So hard to find barrel racers who truly understand you ride the body and not the mouth!!! |
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | Well I'll post a couple videos, one from June 2014 and one from dev 2014 I don't have any recent uploaded
Pleaseeeeee be easy on me, I am no professional trainer I only train my own with all the help I can get.
http://youtu.be/sCl7rgXGTTE
http://youtu.be/-nIAA1CoN7M
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Veteran
Posts: 147
| LMS - 2015-02-27 2:48 PM
Runnincat - 2015-02-27 12:18 PM I might be one of the few people that think its not about the bit. I can tell you from experience and fixing 2-3 of these type of horses that its sooooo not about the bit that I just want to scream. But thats just me.
The reason why your finding it difficult to fix and not getting far..fast...is because as barrel racers we make everything about the face, the head, the front of the horse. This problem is REALLY about the backend and the horse not respecting your ques to move forward and move their feet. I can GUARANTEE (about 99.9%) of the time its about a horse thats not been taught to move up properly from BEHIND into the bit.
I know alot of times we think to ourselves "oh no, your wrong. My horse is properly broke, is soft, is responsive". I'm telling you a horse thats throwing their head, hiding behind the bit, doing all this other stuff that your saying...99% will have a body control issue and not a face issue. Putting less bridle on isnt always the answer because they will just lean downward on it. I can also guarantee if you dont ride her up from behind PROPERLY its tough tough tough to fix.
And sometimes you need someone like Runnincat to ride your horse and remind you the things you once knew! I always ASSUME that when someone comes on here wanting a bit change that they have tried EVERYTHING they possibly can to fix the problem before resorting to a bit change.
Right on |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| RnRJack - 2015-02-27 3:25 PM
Well I'll post a couple videos, one from June 2014 and one from dev 2014 I don't have any recent uploaded
Pleaseeeeee be easy on me, I am no professional trainer I only train my own with all the help I can get.
http://youtu.be/sCl7rgXGTTE
http://youtu.be/-nIAA1CoN7M
I just watched the first video, what I noticed right at the beginning you bounced on her mouth when she was preparing to run in the alley.
Also when the mare left her turns, she was wringing her tail, from what I see in the pictures, and this, I suspect a pain issue.
I would get a vet exam completed with flexion, and xray of the hind end
As well as pelvic ultrasound to rule out female problems |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
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Location: North Dakota | Ok the only video available is the florida state finals, so that's the only one I watched but IMO, your mare is hock sore....at the point she is supposed to be putting a leg in the dirt she is tucking her head. The wringing tail is an indicator too. IF she were mine (and she looks like a dandy mare) I would have some xrays done ASAP. |
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Expert
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Location: Cocoa, Florida | She had been checked from head to toe because of the tail swishing, she sees the chiropractor regular (kit from animal crackers, bob Boston and another lady I've been using has adjusted her). I also do 10s unit and massage. To me she's just a moody gritty mare.
I don't believe Shes hock sore.
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 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | I agree with LMS your mare looks sore. They shouldn't bunny hop around the turn with their legs together like that. Sore hocks can also cause them to elevate their heads and get strung out. An X-ray is nice to make sure there isn't any bony changes, but it's not going to detect inflammation. If she were mine I'd pull rads to have a baseline and inject her. It's really important that they are feeling good in their hindends In order to push them up into the bridle like what Runnincat was talking about. If they don't you won't get that true impulsion from the hind. Maybe she's comes off as moody because she is sore as Heck. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Id check hocks and check ovaries.. shes sore Im surprised trainers havent picked up on that though .. |
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Go For It!
Location: Texas |
I'm really surprised that you guys are so focused on the horse in that video... The rider is the first thing I notice. You can't get a good indication of what the horse is, if the rider is out of shape through the entire pattern. (RnR, just ignore this, lol, it's not said to offend you at all). I think that this is a huge problem in our industry. If the horse isn't working correctly then it needs to go to the vet and get injected or we need a different bit. It's the first thing people do.
If my horse makes mistakes in a run the absolute first thing I do is wonder what I did, lol. If a horse is sore I see it WAY before it becomes an issue at the barrels...
I'm going to start a new thread about this... WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY HORSE???
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Warmblood with Wings
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Location: Florida.. | grinan dbareit - 2015-02-27 7:24 PM I'm really surprised that you guys are so focused on the horse in that video... The rider is the first thing I notice. You can't get a good indication of what the horse is, if the rider is out of shape through the entire pattern. (RnR, just ignore this, lol, it's not said to offend you at all). I think that this is a huge problem in our industry. If the horse isn't working correctly then it needs to go to the vet and get injected or we need a different bit. It's the first thing people do. If my horse makes mistakes in a run the absolute first thing I do is wonder what I did, lol. If a horse is sore I see it WAY before it becomes an issue at the barrels... I'm going to start a new thread about this... WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY HORSE???
i agree with you i also cant see rider very well.. its to small
Edited by Bibliafarm 2015-02-27 6:32 PM
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Expert
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Location: Cocoa, Florida | Look, I'm no dummy, don't you think the first thing I ever noticed was her tail ringing? You have no idea how much money I have spent to check that mare and make sure she's strong and sound. She's had a full bet check when I bought her and other issues I addressed, this is why I didn't want to post the video. Plus it's easy to point things out when you're not the one doing it yourself.
I understand I have a lot to learn still but I've come this far and I'm not stopping now, so thank you to those of you who have helped and encouraged and pointed out things I need to change about my riding.
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Warmblood with Wings
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Location: Florida.. | RnRJack - 2015-02-27 7:53 PM Look, I'm no dummy, don't you think the first thing I ever noticed was her tail ringing? You have no idea how much money I have spent to check that mare and make sure she's strong and sound. She's had a full bet check when I bought her and other issues I addressed, this is why I didn't want to post the video. Plus it's easy to point things out when you're not the one doing it yourself. I understand I have a lot to learn still but I've come this far and I'm not stopping now, so thank you to those of you who have helped and encouraged and pointed out things I need to change about my riding.
I think the point being made is a differant bit may not help the issue until other things are addressed..that is all.. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| grinandbareit - 2015-02-27 4:24 PM
I'm really surprised that you guys are so focused on the horse in that video... The rider is the first thing I notice. You can't get a good indication of what the horse is, if the rider is out of shape through the entire pattern. (RnR, just ignore this, lol, it's not said to offend you at all). I think that this is a huge problem in our industry. If the horse isn't working correctly then it needs to go to the vet and get injected or we need a different bit. It's the first thing people do.
If my horse makes mistakes in a run the absolute first thing I do is wonder what I did, lol. If a horse is sore I see it WAY before it becomes an issue at the barrels...
I'm going to start a new thread about this... WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY HORSE???
I agree. The horse isn't really the problem so much as rider timing and balance. Coming out of the first the rider gets popped back. Then goes to one rein pretty early which is fine, but asks the horse to come in too soon and then has to rein off and then come in again to turn. This throws off the 2nd barrel which makes the 3rd barrel set up bad. It all started leaving that 1st barrel. You just get better timing by riding more and practicing more. It's not a knock on anyone, but the more you practice, the easier it gets. I would try and sit real sit and work on what my hands and seat are doing. Then as I got better work on increasing the speed. That horse looks like it wants to be nice and has the "go" when asked. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| RnRJack - 2015-02-27 6:53 PM
Look, I'm no dummy, don't you think the first thing I ever noticed was her tail ringing? You have no idea how much money I have spent to check that mare and make sure she's strong and sound. She's had a full bet check when I bought her and other issues I addressed, this is why I didn't want to post the video. Plus it's easy to point things out when you're not the one doing it yourself.
I understand I have a lot to learn still but I've come this far and I'm not stopping now, so thank you to those of you who have helped and encouraged and pointed out things I need to change about my riding.
A vet check is only as good as the person doing it.
The vet check is also only as good as that moment, if you have had the horse for 6 months and has been using her, if you were to check her now things may be different.
I also know people who have vet checked horses clean then after 3 months of fitting the horse up the horse can't pass a vet check to save their life.
I pay special attention to my horses, the vet is the first person I go to not chiro, and when chiro checks my horses out, they generally don't have to be adjusted.
Since this is a mare yes she may be sound, but she is uncomfortable, she is wringing her tail, she may be wind sucking, and may need sutured closed (sorry I can't remember the name)
Grin and bear it, I do the same thing as you, if my horse does something wrong once, I reflect back on what I am doing, seat, hands, and legs. I have spent countless nights reviewing runs on video and in my head to figure a horse out.
I do find there are quite a few people who actually can't tell their horse is sore till they are head bobbing lame, I don't know the op, and I am not making any assumptions one way or another. I also had my horses humble me, as there were days I thought it was a training issue, or a behaviour issue, when it actually was a medical issue. Nobody knows everything, especially on the forum, you know your horses the best, you can pick and choose what you listen to.
As for watching the rider in the video I watched, the image was too far away, and too blurry for me to make and comments.
From looking at the two barrel pictures, it looks like she is front end heavy, not driving from the hind end, again this can be a sign on hock problems, or training problems.
Your horse may be rating herself for the barrels, but she may be doing it incorrectly, I had one do this, I showed Ed wright a video, and immediately said your horse is dumping on his front end, after that problem was fixed, his times sped up.
As for bits, they are tools, from the one picture when you are pulling on the horse, both the direct and indirect rein are tight, personally I don't like doing that at that point at the barrel as it can cause a horse to slow down, evade the bit, or ignore it.
I also believe a person can never be light enough on the bit, this is something I continually work with.
As for a bit, I do have one horse who is a little front endy, I spoke to dutton bits in December, he suggested trying his gag bridle. My horse is no longer front endy (she actually conformationally is front end heavy), you may try this, but this bit you do need to feel your horse, as you can pull forever without it stopping. |
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Expert
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Location: Cocoa, Florida | I've often wondered about the suturing myself that is one thing I've never done nor had I heard of it until a friend of mine did it to her mare.
If I start injecting hocks now isn't that something that you continually have to do until they can't be injected anymore?
And as far as ovaries go, she pretty much acts the same when she comes in season then she does at any other given day.
I know I'm not the perfect rider like I said before I used to have an easy going take care of me super honest gelding I ran for years, this is my step up horse only I can't afford to buy a step up horse so I got a 2 year old and trained her myself. We obviously have a long road ahead of us and im willing to do anything I can do improve.
Thanks for the advice, I'll check into some of those things |
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | Here is my other horse. May as well take the cat out of the bag and ahow you all
She's young as well and hasn't been on the pattern long but I feel like I can ride her much much better because she's smoother in her turns.
Am I doing the same things on both horses?
http://youtu.be/M3jL_wQbIrQ
http://youtu.be/pEAxwcHuj1E
Edited by RnRJack 2015-02-27 9:41 PM
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
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Location: North Dakota | So answer this....if you don't inject her hocks (if she truly needs injections) how long do you think she will last?? I don't think you caused this but if the horse is hurting you sure aren't helping her. From experience with making bad decisions, don't ruin a good horse because of your preconceived ideas. If you believe that once you inject you always will or that it has some detriment to your horse you really need to do some research and visit with several vets. I will take an injected horse any day over a gate fighting sour sob. Maybe she just needs a little time off. |
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Expert
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Location: Cocoa, Florida | LMS - 2015-02-27 9:38 PM
So answer this....if you don't inject her hocks (if she truly needs injections) how long do you think she will last?? I don't think you caused this but if the horse is hurting you sure aren't helping her. From experience with making bad decisions, don't ruin a good horse because of your preconceived ideas. If you believe that once you inject you always will or that it has some detriment to your horse you really need to do some research and visit with several vets. I will take an injected horse any day over a gate fighting sour sob. Maybe she just needs a little time off.
Wait a minute here, it's not a preconceived idea, I have injected hocks before when it was absoutely necessary. I just feel like a lot of issues are constantly blamed on hocks when there are other underlining issues going on.
I really don't feel like my 4 year old needs her hocks injected BUT I'm not opposed to doing it if it's what she needs to feel better, as I have had cortizone injections in my wrist after breaking it 3 times.
I just don't want to start something that's unnecessary or just do it to do it |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
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Location: North Dakota | Ok I'm done annoying you, I wish you well with your horse. I really did try to help even though you may not see that. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 304
Location: Up and over to the right | Ok I'll give it a go -
In the second video coming out of the 1st barrel you toppled behind your horse and when she tried to get her hind end underneath to power herself forward you bumped her in the mouth, she leapt forward because you are keeping her off balance.
Going into second you leaned forward way too early, again throwing the mare off balance. Again around the back she loses balance because you are being left behind. Same with third.
You are being bounced all over the place and it's not the fault of the mare. You need to do some core strengthening exercises and unlock your hips so you aren't getting left behind and then jarring her back as she's trying to gain speed coming out of the barrels.
I looked at a few other videos and there is a lot of bouncing going on. Your hands aren't disconnected from your body so every time you bounce, your hand catch her in the mouth, that would cause evasion FAST. Your saddle bounces on her back as well, tighten that rear cinch when you get on!
My recommendation is get off barrels for a while and find yourself a trainer of any discipline (dressage/wp/hunter jumper even) to work on your seat and hands. Your mare is 4… why push her when you know things aren't working out between you two at the moment. |
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Worlds Greatest Laugh
Location: North Dakota | ChasingCans04 - 2015-02-28 6:52 AM
Ok I'll give it a go -
In the second video coming out of the 1st barrel you toppled behind your horse and when she tried to get her hind end underneath to power herself forward you bumped her in the mouth, she leapt forward because you are keeping her off balance.
Going into second you leaned forward way too early, again throwing the mare off balance. Again around the back she loses balance because you are being left behind. Same with third.
You are being bounced all over the place and it's not the fault of the mare. You need to do some core strengthening exercises and unlock your hips so you aren't getting left behind and then jarring her back as she's trying to gain speed coming out of the barrels.
I looked at a few other videos and there is a lot of bouncing going on. Your hands aren't disconnected from your body so every time you bounce, your hand catch her in the mouth, that would cause evasion FAST. Your saddle bounces on her back as well, tighten that rear cinch when you get on!
My recommendation is get off barrels for a while and find yourself a trainer of any discipline (dressage/wp/hunter jumper even) to work on your seat and hands. Your mare is 4… why push her when you know things aren't working out between you two at the moment.
I agree about getting off barrels for some time and going back to more foundation work for both you and the horse. As you are working with a qualified instructor, you will soon discover whether your mare is hock sore, body sore, needs a caslicks or any of the other recommendations. Its a win win. Believe me, as you progress through simple tasks, the soreness will present itself big time and you wont have to question. Sometimes when they arent stitched up, it presents as a soreness.
I think with a little instruction you can do this and have alot of fun and success. :)
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Ignore my other post...she is not any of he things I orhonally thought. Please try the recommendations given you mare is hurting somewhere, the tail wringing is only one clue and she might just be gritty but her avoiding the bit and hopping around the barrels is the biggest lameness indicators. You might need to travel a good distance to find a vet that can spot the problem. |
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Expert
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Location: Cocoa, Florida | Did anyone even watch the other video I posted of my other mare???? I feel like my little red horse is not as smooth and I can't sit on her as well, for whatever reason I can ride my roan mare much better and I don't feel like I bounce at all. I may not have the best seat but I have very strong legs and I ride 4-6 days a week. I grew up riding hunter jumper, I've always rode my forward (in my two point) I quit that and took dressage lessons a few years ago which helped my seat a lot BuT to me it's way different running around barrelas then it is doing slow dressage work and at work.
Bilblafarm have you ever ran barrels??? Have your dressage skills helped you??
Im not skinny but I'm not fat and im very strong, I'm working as hard as I can to loose more weight and get in better shape. I really feel like ya'll have picked me apart, guess that's what I get but I am only a weekend warrior out to have fun and I'm advancing as much as I can.
And my other videos are pretty old, I am looking into a performance vet a few hours from me to look my horse up and down. Thanks everyone.
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Expert
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Location: Cocoa, Florida | Oh and is there anything anyone sees that im doing right or am I worlds worst barrel racer lol
Edited by RnRJack 2015-02-28 12:03 PM
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 Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | Don't beat yourself up. You are doing the right thing by asking for help. Everyone sees things different, there are some really great people here giving you excellent advice. I know it's hard not to but don't take it personal, they're truly trying to help. 
I'm going to throw something out there that I didn't see anyone else mention....try a different saddle. I watched the video's of both horses & they're both throwing you behind as you come out of the barrel. It just looks like you have no room to move in the saddle you are using so it either throws you forward or out the back, not allowing you to stay centered. I'm 125 lbs and prefer to ride a 15" saddle, anything smaller & I feel trapped. I bought a 14" a few years ago because it was really comfy & I figured the small seat would be nice as I was starting a lot of colts at the time & I figured it'd "hold' me in place....WRONG!!!! I got piled out of that saddle repeatedly on spooks & bucks that I would have had no issue riding in my bigger seated saddles. But with the small seat I'd hit the cantle once or twice & get launched. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| For the injecting hocks.
Yes once you start injecting, you will continue to inject, because you wouldn't be injecting unless they need it.
Personally I don't inject hocks, I go straight to surgery especially with young horses, cost analysis if my horse is still running at 12-15, the surgery is way cheaper then injecting hocks.
Injections generally only last 3 months, people who say they did it once, are ignoring their horses communication, lying, or got very lucky when they started injecting they were almost finished fusing.
I re watched the video, of the 4 yr old, and to me she looks sore in the hind end. I would be curious to see where chiro keeps adjusting as this is also a tell tale sign if they are in pain, lower back, hips, and pelvis generally mean hind end pain and they are compensating therefore throwing themselves out.
Withers, saddle fit, etc.
I watched you on the other horse, the video is too far away for me to say anything definite, but I do see you do get left behind.
You say the 4 yr old is harder to ride, is she smaller, and more compact? If she is I find these horses have more instant acceleration then my longer horses. I had one horse who would leave his barrels so hard he would actually give me whiplash, he is a 1d horse, and his new owner can ride him better then me.
If she has the same build as the other, then she may be harder to ride or choppy due to pain, due to a training issue, or a balance issue.
As people have already said you may look at strengthening your core, planking works well, sit ups, legs ups, flipping a tractor tire over and over outside is the best if you have access. I know even from transitioning from colts, to fast horses, I have to work on my core every year.
Also there are a variety of saddles out there, some saddles will throw you more forward, if you can try a few different saddles different seat sizes and get a feel of what you like and don't like. A Martha Josey saddle may be one to try as these saddles seem to help people who are too far forward.
To me barrel racing is supposed to be fun, and training a barrel horse is time consuming and very humbling. If this is your first, you have done a good job so far, my suggestion do something else with her as well, mounted shooting, trail class, working cow. Also learn about your horses body, everyday I go over my horses with my eyes and hands even if I am not riding them to see if everything looks or feels the same, I also watch them walk, trot, run in the pasture, I look for signs of lameness my vet has told me to look for, you learn a lot from watching their behaviour in their natural environment.
Also do you have her on a supplement for joints? |
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Expert
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Location: Cocoa, Florida | Great response and thank you Cheryl, and of course I'm getting left begind I've never rode two mares of this caliber, I'm clocking bottom of 2D and top of 3D on both mares in bigger shows, I may look like crap but I'm doing much better and learning to adjust to both horses. , I just made the transition from riding my trusty old gelding who was a solid 3/4D easy to ride horse to these two mares.
If they get any faster and leave me behind I'll be wearing a sissy seat soon
As far as her soreness I will call my vet monday and have a different chiropractor look at her this week and go from there.
I do lots of other things with my horses besides barrels, I only ever walk and trot the pattern at Home, I leave running for shows or timed exhibitions. We have cattle at the house, we work cows and amazingly I can rope (not posting anymore videos of my awesome skills sorry).
Oh and I started cross fit again but it's hard to do since I had a shoulder injury
I actually set up cavalettis as well as I feel like it helps my horses pick up their feet and we are in the middle of no where so we trail ride a LOT.
Edited by RnRJack 2015-02-28 6:09 PM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| RnRJack - 2015-02-28 6:06 PM
Great response and thank you Cheryl, and of course I'm getting left begind I've never rode two mares of this caliber, I'm clocking bottom of 2D and top of 3D on both mares in bigger shows, I may look like crap but I'm doing much better and learning to adjust to both horses. , I just made the transition from riding my trusty old gelding who was a solid 3/4D easy to ride horse to these two mares.
If they get any faster and leave me behind I'll be wearing a sissy seat soon
As far as her soreness I will call my vet monday and have a different chiropractor look at her this week and go from there.
I do lots of other things with my horses besides barrels, I only ever walk and trot the pattern at Home, I leave running for shows or timed exhibitions. We have cattle at the house, we work cows and amazingly I can rope (not posting anymore videos of my awesome skills sorry).
Oh and I started cross fit again but it's hard to do since I had a shoulder injury
I actually set up cavalettis as well as I feel like it helps my horses pick up their feet and we are in the middle of no where so we trail ride a LOT.
So what can you do at home to learn how to hustle up in the saddle.
Can you bring a steer into the arena or round pen and chase it around?
I find gymkhana events especially pole bending gets me up and hustling
I'll also put up pylons in funnels, etc and will run through those to work on my timing.
You will need to do high speed things at home to get the feel and timing as well.
Don't call yourself a crappy rider, focus on the positive, you said you have improved, great.
Instead of trying to change everything about you at once, work on one or two at a time, set realistic goals.
If you can find some YouTube Ed wright videos, he talks about soul in riding, and talks about moving your arms in rhythm of the horse, this will help you disengage your hands from your body. |
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | Well I say I'm improvong I think I am but I'm not in as great of shape as I ised to be, as I look at older pictures (I've had quite a few horses throughout the years) im a lot heavier then I was, guess I need to put cross fit at the top of my list again!!! Getting older sucks, since this thread is semi about me (lol) im going to share some of my previous pics and horses
This is my fillys first show when I first got her
This is an Eddie Stinson 3 year old
This is an old Jet Deck gelding who was only 14.2
This is skip a friends horse
This is ?Jake, my rugged lark/two eyed jack gelding who I accomplished everything on
This is my dash for cash gelding
And my doc bar mare im running niw
I've learned a lot from all these horses and I will continue to ride as many as I can and get better!!!!!
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Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | Look like amazing pictures!!!!! |
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BIT GURUS - I need suggestions
