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| Thoughts on someone that ups the stud fee in the middle of breeding season because his colts started doing good. Totally understand the fees going up the following year but in the middle of breeding season - I wouldn't think that's good business. Jmo |
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  Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
 
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | I have no problem with it. If the stallion starts really producing, making a name for himself, it's the stallion owners right to get what they can for a breeding, especially when the resulting foal will be more valuable. I can tell you that it isn't cheap to keep a stud up, adverstise, haul, collect, pay in to incentives, etc.... |
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 Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | I know I will get flamed for this but I don't care. I hate when people up stud fees because they have a foal or two that suddenly did something. Or they up it because it's another year... so I should pay another $250 because it's 2015?? I would walk away from that stud. If I ever had a stud (I never will though) his stud fee would never change, even if his foals started to make noise. I know a stud who's fee went up $500 because he moved to the same place a "famous" stud stands at....really?? So again I'm going to pay and extra $500 because he happens to be in the same place so and so is at. But at the end of the day, they own the stud so they can do whatever the hec they want to do and we are just at there mercy.
Edited by Iwish 2015-03-04 7:17 AM
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Iwish - 2015-03-04 7:15 AM I know I will get flamed for this but I don't care. I hate when people up stud fees because they have a foal or two that suddenly did something. Or they up it because it's another year... so I should pay another $250 because it's 2015?? I would walk away from that stud. If I ever had a stud (I never will though) his stud fee would never change, even if his foals started to make noise. I know a stud who's fee went up $500 because he moved to the same place a "famous" stud stands at....really?? So again I'm going to pay and extra $500 because he happens to be in the same place so and so is at.
What if you are losing money standing him at a certain price? It's nice to want to make deals for people and, believe me, I do. I donate to causes that I believe in, I cut my prices drastically and I don't make money. In fact, I'd say that I am in the hole because of the things I do for others. Do I deserve to increase my stud fee from $600 to $750 next year? Or should I worry about you and your needs? |
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | LRQHS - 2015-03-04 8:09 AM I have no problem with it. If the stallion starts really producing, making a name for himself, it's the stallion owners right to get what they can for a breeding, especially when the resulting foal will be more valuable. I can tell you that it isn't cheap to keep a stud up, adverstise, haul, collect, pay in to incentives, etc....
I agree. As a mare owner, upping stud fees helps with re-sale value on colts too. |
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Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | Nope, up your stud fee all you want. I will just go elsewhere. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1182
Location: Do I hear Banjos? | You know...It's supply and demand just like many other things. |
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Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | Iwish - 2015-03-04 8:50 AM Nope, up your stud fee all you want. I will just go elsewhere.
You do realize that prices on feed, hay, equipment, help, vets, etc goes up every year, right?
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 395
| I think owners should charge what ever they want. The good thing is, there are a lot of studs to choose from. That being said, raising the fee in the middle of the season isn't too common I guess. But, if I had been standing a stallion for a few years for a pretty reasonable fee and he or his get started coming on, I might raise it. |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Iwish - 2015-03-04 7:50 AM Nope, up your stud fee all you want. I will just go elsewhere.
You do realize that a person standing a stallion may not want you as an owner of one of their offspring too, right? I kind of like that a raised price might weed you out. |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Murphy - 2015-03-04 7:54 AM Iwish - 2015-03-04 8:50 AM Nope, up your stud fee all you want. I will just go elsewhere. You do realize that prices on feed, hay, equipment, help, vets, etc goes up every year, right?
It does get more and more expensive to truly stand a stallion. We are doing everything in our power to stay afloat. |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | Murphy - 2015-03-04 7:21 AM LRQHS - 2015-03-04 8:09 AM I have no problem with it. If the stallion starts really producing, making a name for himself, it's the stallion owners right to get what they can for a breeding, especially when the resulting foal will be more valuable. I can tell you that it isn't cheap to keep a stud up, adverstise, haul, collect, pay in to incentives, etc.... I agree. As a mare owner, upping stud fees helps with re-sale value on colts too.
agreed....look at the ASOF, chasin firewater...etc....I don't believe I've seen any unstarted young ones under $10,000. And people are buying them because they are proven producers |
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Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | Ah ok I see. So because I won't pay a certain price for something that means I'm a use-less POS of a horse person and I don't deserve to have something. Got it. |
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | Iwish - 2015-03-04 8:08 AM Ah ok I see. So because I won't pay a certain price for something that means I'm a use-less POS of a horse person and I don't deserve to have something. Got it.
I don't think jennifer ment that at all |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 395
| Some owners will want to approve your mare too. Their right to do whatever with their stallion that they want. There's a lot of good studs out there to choose from. |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Ummm, nobody said that...... |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | It's a business, not a charity. Standing a stallion is expensive.
my question is why do you feel someone can't raise their prices to reflect demand? Why do you feel entitled to get something for the price YOU want to pay? That's not how capitalism works. |
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Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | Well that's what it meant to me. Like booney said, it's their stud, they can do whatever they want to. The OP asked a question, I answered with MY opinion and because my opinion was different I'm going to be taught a lesson. |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | No one is trying to teach you a lesson. Where are you coming up with this?
The truth is that it is expensive. Very expensive. And, if you can't afford the stud fee, you shouldn't be breeding, because that is the cheapest part of it all. |
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Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | Iwish - 2015-03-04 9:23 AM Well that's what it meant to me. Like booney said, it's their stud, they can do whatever they want to. The OP asked a question, I answered with MY opinion and because my opinion was different I'm going to be taught a lesson.
You can have an opinion, but facts are facts.
Just like your job. You get a cost of living increase every year because things go up. I don't see any difference with stallions. It's a service, and those goes up too.
I kick myself in the butt every year when I wait to book a stallion and his fees increase. I don't get mad about it, I just try to remember to book sooner :) |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 933
Location: north dakota | Iwish - 2015-03-04 8:23 AM
Well that's what it meant to me. Like booney said, it's their stud, they can do whatever they want to. The OP asked a question, I answered with MY opinion and because my opinion was different I'm going to be taught a lesson.
It is up to the stud owner what they want to price the stud fee at. As a mare owner it is up to me what studs I want to breed to, what I can afford for a stud fee and if I think the resulting offspring justifies the expense of getting it on the ground. I want to breed to DTF but it is not in my budget this year so I picked studs in my price range that were good crosses for my mares and what I hope are marketable foals.
If the stud owner bumps the stud fee too high and people can't market the foals than they probably won't get many bookings. |
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 Butter my Biscuits
Posts: 2948
Location: MI | I'd like to elaborate a bit on Jenifers position. We tried to keep up with the Jones and stand our stallion. We bought a son of DTF out of a very well bred mare. He just happened to be the only double registered son of DTF also. We bought all the necessary A.I. equipment, advertised as much as we could, offered free breedings to select mares, donated to Stallion Service sales and charities. Paid Semen transport permits, put blood on file for all the breed registries, bought mares for him, etc. Tried to get him in Incentives that we thought would be beneficial but was never enough. When we sat down and figured out what we were spending, what was coming in, and the time and hassle that went with it, we finally made decision to get off the train. We are now raising the kind of babies we want to ride, very content with where we are in life, and dont miss the hassle of trying to stand a stallion to the public a bit. |
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 Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | So I suppose if I buy a horse for $2500 and make them into something really neat, then I shouldn't expect to sell them for a good profit either? This is truly no different than what you are saying. Maintaining any horse is expensive, but maintaining a stallion, raising colts, shipping semen, etc, etc is very expensive and I fully expect the breeding fee to go up! Otherwise these colts we see selling for $10K+ would be selling for $2500. It's simple economics. The thought process that a stud fee shouldn't be raised due to the performance of the stallion himself, performing foals by him, economy, or just for the simple fact that the stallion owner is losing money is ridiculous! I admire those of you who do own a stallion, as I know the hard work goes unnoticed most of the time, so kudos to you all!!! |
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Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | I never said I couldn't afford a stud fee, sure I can't afford dash ta fame or Frenchmans guy stud fee. So I will stay looking at studs in my budget and hope that a stud I maybe passed on for one reason or another doesn't go up and out of my budget and I kick myself latter for not taking it then. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 550
| Most stallions open their books 6 months or more before breeding season starts, and most even have early booking deals with a cheaper fee.
If you want to book to a stallion at that price, book early.
I would be mad if I booked at a price, and they came back and asked for more than what was agreed upon. If I didn't reserve my spot and they went up, the only person to be mad at is myself.
Anyone has the right to decrease or increase the cost of their good or service as they see fit. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 356
| I don't have a problem with a breeder raising the stud fee from year to year! However...getting back to the OP's question, I think it's really weird to raise it in the middle of breeding season. IMO, once you've advertised a certain fee for that season, you've set it for that season. By all means raise it the following year or have a discounted rate for early bookings up to a certain date, but it seems a little sketchy to suddenly raise it in the middle of the season. |
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Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | I've never booked a stallion without a contract with all the legal information as well as the stud fee on there. I don't think a stallion owner can increase the stud fee after you have signed the contract.
Edited by Murphy 2015-03-04 9:13 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| Iwish - 2015-03-04 5:50 AM
Nope, up your stud fee all you want. I will just go elsewhere.
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 That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| I think the majority of opinions above have said it well. It is a business not charity. The market dictates what you can get for what you are selling. If you are priced to high nobody will buy your product. If you are priced to low, you are leaving money on the table. If you are priced just perfect it is a win win for everybody. Do gas prices change? Yes almost daily. Do home prices change? Absolutly. So stud fee's will always change as well. And yes stud owners do everything they can to increase the value of thier foals. That is why people are willing to gamble on the stud of their choice. So if you see a fee increasing because of successful offspring, you better jump on it while you can. I personally love to see it happen because that means somebody is figuring it out, and that helps everybody!! |
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 Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| Iwish - 2015-03-04 7:15 AM
I know I will get flamed for this but I don't care. I hate when people up stud fees because they have a foal or two that suddenly did something. Or they up it because it's another year... so I should pay another $250 because it's 2015?? I would walk away from that stud. If I ever had a stud (I never will though) his stud fee would never change, even if his foals started to make noise. I know a stud who's fee went up $500 because he moved to the same place a "famous" stud stands at....really?? So again I'm going to pay and extra $500 because he happens to be in the same place so and so is at. But at the end of the day, they own the stud so they can do whatever the hec they want to do and we are just at there mercy.
Are you serious?
Never raise a stud fee?
It only makes sense that when studs are starting out the fee would be lower to entices mare owner to 'gamble' on a stallion without performing age foals. When that stallion's foals start performing and doing well, of course the stud fee should be raised, the value of the foals is more and warrants an increase.
I would like to add that many stallion owners remember who took a chance on their stud before he was proven and often will give considerations to those mare owners who bred their mares and produce foals that performed and helped prove the stallion. |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | To answer the ORIGINAL question- It irks me a little, just a little bit, to increase a stud fee after his stud fee for the year has been announced. It does not bother me *at all* for them to increase it from one year to the next as the stallion proves his worth.
But, honestly, I'm never going to lose any sleep over it. And I typically pick out my stallions so far in advance that I jump on what ever early booking discounts they may have that I'm rarely searching for a stallion in January or later.. so if they choose to increase it in the middle of breeding season, I've already picked my stallion so it doesn't bother me.
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | bennie1 - 2015-03-04 9:05 AM Iwish - 2015-03-04 7:15 AM I know I will get flamed for this but I don't care. I hate when people up stud fees because they have a foal or two that suddenly did something. Or they up it because it's another year... so I should pay another $250 because it's 2015?? I would walk away from that stud. If I ever had a stud (I never will though) his stud fee would never change, even if his foals started to make noise. I know a stud who's fee went up $500 because he moved to the same place a "famous" stud stands at....really?? So again I'm going to pay and extra $500 because he happens to be in the same place so and so is at. But at the end of the day, they own the stud so they can do whatever the hec they want to do and we are just at there mercy. Are you serious? Never raise a stud fee? It only makes sense that when studs are starting out the fee would be lower to entices mare owner to 'gamble' on a stallion without performing age foals. When that stallion's foals start performing and doing well, of course the stud fee should be raised, the value of the foals is more and warrants an increase . I would like to add that many stallion owners remember who took a chance on their stud before he was proven and often will give considerations to those mare owners who bred their mares and produce foals that performed and helped prove the stallion.
That is very true. |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | If you've paid the booking fee and signed the contract, your fee won't increase.
Edited by LRQHS 2015-03-04 1:26 PM
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Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | Ok I'm done. Yep I'm a moron for stating my opinion, you guys are right I am wrong. |
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas |  |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Hey, El Scorcho is in an auction currently to help a small police force in Milton, Indiana get a K-9, if you're interested :)
It's on the FB group Barrel Racers Supporting K-9 cops. |
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 Expert
Posts: 4625
Location: Desert Land | I have no problem with a stallion's stud fee raising from year to year, but I do think it's kinda crappy to up it in the middle of breeding season. However, it's their perogative to do so and if I wanted to breed to the horse that bad, I would still pay it. Lucky for me this situation hasn't happened yet for me to have to make that decision. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Iwish - 2015-03-04 7:50 AM
Nope, up your stud fee all you want. I will just go elsewhere.
I have to say you are very unrealistic.
Over the years everything goes up, fuel, price of food, vehicles, hay prices, etc, so why not stud fees.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 395
| Yeah. I still think it's a little odd to raise the fee mid season, but the mare owners with contracts didn't see their fees go up I guess. Maybe that is their way of trying to pick the best mares for the stud. Also, here in Oklahoma, the last couple of years have been pretty dry and hay and feed was really high. I know many people who didn't breed any mares at all. Or even sold them. So, it could be as simple as the stud owner doing what they have to do. The other side of that is, there is a ton of good studs around here! 
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Iwish - 2015-03-04 8:48 AM
I never said I couldn't afford a stud fee, sure I can't afford dash ta fame or Frenchmans guy stud fee. So I will stay looking at studs in my budget and hope that a stud I maybe passed on for one reason or another doesn't go up and out of my budget and I kick myself latter for not taking it then.
You are constricting yourself here.
You said earlier if the stud fee ever went up, you wouldn't breed to said stud, so why would you be kicking yourself when it goes against your beliefs. |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | I breed a couple every year. If I want to make sure that I get the guaranteed price, I send my money then. Thus, I am locked in with the current price. Things change and things happen to studs etc. One year I was booked and the horse died two weeks before the breeding.
My default baby just happens to have the "current" baby's daddy you are probably talking about. LOL. The only time I have been lucky.
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | 3canstorun - 2015-03-04 10:33 AM I breed a couple every year. If I want to make sure that I get the guaranteed price, I send my money then. Thus, I am locked in with the current price. Things change and things happen to studs etc. One year I was booked and the horse died two weeks before the breeding.
My default baby just happens to have the "current" baby's daddy you are probably talking about. LOL. The only time I have been lucky.
The stallion they are probably talking about's stud fee was low for what he is accomplishing this year. His foals are going to go up in value. I wish I had locked him in at $1500. I'm sure not mad at the owner though. He's worth every penny of the raised stud fee imo. |
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | LRQHS - 2015-03-04 10:38 AM 3canstorun - 2015-03-04 10:33 AM I breed a couple every year. If I want to make sure that I get the guaranteed price, I send my money then. Thus, I am locked in with the current price. Things change and things happen to studs etc. One year I was booked and the horse died two weeks before the breeding.
My default baby just happens to have the "current" baby's daddy you are probably talking about. LOL. The only time I have been lucky.
The stallion they are probably talking about's stud fee was low for what he is accomplishing this year. His foals are going to go up in value. I wish I had locked him in at $1500. I'm sure not mad at the owner though. He's worth every penny of the raised stud fee imo.
what stud is it? |
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Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| It is kinda BS to raise it in mid year, though. Their horse, they can do what they want and accept the risk of running off potential customers.
I am out of the loop, anyone want to PM me the stud that raised his fee mid season? |
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Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | hoofs_in_motion - 2015-03-04 11:39 AM LRQHS - 2015-03-04 10:38 AM 3canstorun - 2015-03-04 10:33 AM I breed a couple every year. If I want to make sure that I get the guaranteed price, I send my money then. Thus, I am locked in with the current price. Things change and things happen to studs etc. One year I was booked and the horse died two weeks before the breeding.
My default baby just happens to have the "current" baby's daddy you are probably talking about. LOL. The only time I have been lucky.
The stallion they are probably talking about's stud fee was low for what he is accomplishing this year. His foals are going to go up in value. I wish I had locked him in at $1500. I'm sure not mad at the owner though. He's worth every penny of the raised stud fee imo.
x2. |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| Nobody complains when a stud temporarily lowers the stud fee in the middle of a season like Slick By Design did with their Early Bird Special last year. |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | The daddy of Nancy's foal......does that help? lol |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | I remimber when both Dash Ta Fame and Frenchmans Guy were both way less then half of what they are now. |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | ThreeCorners - 2015-03-04 10:42 AM I remimber when both Dash Ta Fame and Frenchmans Guy were both way less then half of what they are now.
How about Corona Cartel? |
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 The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | I always enjoy looking at stallions on the market that shouldn't be on the market.
Proven stallions big bang for the buck......
Unproven young stallions you get what you paid for and hopefully you get a barn burner, but your taking a gamble.
First year proven stallion, all aboard will probably reproduce their ability.
Older unproven stallions..... why?
Stallions who got hurt...depends how they got hurt...
To answer the OP question, Upping fee's during a breeding season IMHO is bad for business. Might be better off calling the stallions book full, which the owners of stallions should have.
Now with everything I have said above, the same goes for mares. AND if I had a nice stallion and a mare owner contacts me with a mare with zero going for her why would you breed it....but we see it time and time again. If I am out to prove my stallion I would give incentives for proven mares, and I would be picking up the phone and calling those mare owners to cut a deal. I did this for years in the T/B industry it was my job.
SO for those who are losing money with their stallions, might want to look at your program.
Flame away.....lol
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | You just saw him in The American.....maybe..... |
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | LRQHS - 2015-03-04 10:42 AM The daddy of Nancy's foal......does that help? lol
negative ghost rider |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Murphy - 2015-03-04 10:40 AM hoofs_in_motion - 2015-03-04 11:39 AM LRQHS - 2015-03-04 10:38 AM 3canstorun - 2015-03-04 10:33 AM I breed a couple every year. If I want to make sure that I get the guaranteed price, I send my money then. Thus, I am locked in with the current price. Things change and things happen to studs etc. One year I was booked and the horse died two weeks before the breeding.
My default baby just happens to have the "current" baby's daddy you are probably talking about. LOL. The only time I have been lucky.
The stallion they are probably talking about's stud fee was low for what he is accomplishing this year. His foals are going to go up in value. I wish I had locked him in at $1500. I'm sure not mad at the owner though. He's worth every penny of the raised stud fee imo.
You must be talking Streaking Ta Fame. |
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Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | Streaking Ta Fame?
I can see why they raised his fee. But I agree with FatChance... not great business. But people will pay it. Those who got contracts in before the upp'd fee should be glad. |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | Also, I will add.. if you see a stallion who you like, and they increase their fee mid year.. Usually if you just ask them they will explain themselves and it makes sense. I saw one and at first was like, well that't not cool... got my information and it totally makes sense to me and I agreed with their decision. |
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | Murphy - 2015-03-04 10:45 AM Streaking Ta Fame?
I can see why they raised his fee. But I agree with FatChance... not great business. But people will pay it. Those who got contracts in before the upp'd fee should be glad.
agreed. He is one hunk of a stud though!!! |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | fatchance - 2015-03-04 10:43 AM I always enjoy looking at stallions on the market that shouldn't be on the market.
Proven stallions big bang for the buck......
Unproven young stallions you get what you paid for and hopefully you get a barn burner, but your taking a gamble.
First year proven stallion, all aboard will probably reproduce their ability.
Older unproven stallions..... why?
Stallions who got hurt...depends how they got hurt...
To answer the OP question, Upping fee's during a breeding season IMHO is bad for business. Might be better off calling the stallions book full, which the owners of stallions should have.
Now with everything I have said above, the same goes for mares. AND if I had a nice stallion and a mare owner contacts me with a mare with zero going for her why would you breed it....but we see it time and time again. If I am out to prove my stallion I would give incentives for proven mares, and I would be picking up the phone and calling those mare owners to cut a deal. I did this for years in the T/B industry it was my job.
SO for those who are losing money with their stallions, might want to look at your program.
Flame away.....lol
Well said on ALL points!! I agree 100% |
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 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | To the original poster, if there is a signed contract with booking fee paid, you bet I'd be mad. I stand by my contract for the entire length of the contract (2 years). After that if costs or stud fees have gone up, it's my right to set my fees anywhere I want.
A bit of a rant of my own: I once looked into breeding to a horse that is now one of the elites the first year he stood. The contract allowed for the owners to raise the stud fee mid contract if they wanted to and I would have to pay the difference. I didn't breed to that stallion.
2014: I signed a contract with one place that was standing a stallion. One mare got in foal and lost it. It happens. Not their fault. However, they moved him back to his owners place and they are not standing behind the contract I signed. I get a rebreed but the shipping fees are more. I don't think that's right. What's the point of a contract if they can change the terms mid contract? You can bet I'll remember this outfit. 
Edited by OregonBR 2015-03-04 10:51 AM
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | I can answer about losing money.
I don't need to look at my program. I lose money because I give and I am happy doing that. That, and I haven't bred him out until this year.
lol
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | I have seen alot of GREAT performing stallions be duds in the sire dept. Raising ones fee mid season because he himself did good reciently is bad business. Firewaterontherocks was in the exact same spot last year. He would have WON The American had he not pulled the third over leaving it, yet even with the downed third was still second. . Yes, Robyn raised his stud fee, but she did it for THIS year and not just because he himself did good. His foals are just now starting to hit the arena and he already has 3 over the $100,000 earnings mark!!!
Edited by ThreeCorners 2015-03-04 10:55 AM
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| ThreeCorners - 2015-03-04 10:53 AM I have seen alot of GREAT performing stallions be duds in the sire dept. Raising ones fee mid season because he himself did good reciently is bad business. Firewaterontherocks was in the exact same spot last year. He would have WON The American had he not pulled the third over leaving it, yet even with the downed third was still second. . Yes, Robyn raised his stud fee, but she did it for THIS year and not just because he himself did good. His foals are just now starting to hit the arena and he already has 3 over the $100,000 earnings mark!!!
I may be wrong. But If i remember right FWOTR book was already closed prior to the American. It it had still been open I'm sure she would have raised it that year. |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Whiteboy - 2015-03-04 11:05 AM ThreeCorners - 2015-03-04 10:53 AM I have seen alot of GREAT performing stallions be duds in the sire dept. Raising ones fee mid season because he himself did good reciently is bad business. Firewaterontherocks was in the exact same spot last year. He would have WON The American had he not pulled the third over leaving it, yet even with the downed third was still second. . Yes, Robyn raised his stud fee, but she did it for THIS year and not just because he himself did good. His foals are just now starting to hit the arena and he already has 3 over the $100,000 earnings mark!!! I may be wrong. But If i remember right FWOTR book was already closed prior to the American. It it had still been open I'm sure she would have raised it that year.
I came back to add. Only Robyn can really answere if she would have raised it last year but my point was, she raised it for this year not because he himself did good at The American. She raised it because of what his foals are doing and they are just starting to get out there.
Edited by ThreeCorners 2015-03-04 11:14 AM
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| ThreeCorners - 2015-03-04 11:08 AM Whiteboy - 2015-03-04 11:05 AM ThreeCorners - 2015-03-04 10:53 AM I have seen alot of GREAT performing stallions be duds in the sire dept. Raising ones fee mid season because he himself did good reciently is bad business. Firewaterontherocks was in the exact same spot last year. He would have WON The American had he not pulled the third over leaving it, yet even with the downed third was still second. . Yes, Robyn raised his stud fee, but she did it for THIS year and not just because he himself did good. His foals are just now starting to hit the arena and he already has 3 over the $100,000 earnings mark!!! I may be wrong. But If i remember right FWOTR book was already closed prior to the American. It it had still been open I'm sure she would have raised it that year.
I came back to add. Only Robyn can really answere if she would have raised it last year but my point was, she raised it for this year not because he himself did good at The American. She raised it because of what his foals are doing and they are just starting to get out there.
Either way, if it was him or his foals or a combination of the two. People obviously think he is worth it. If anything he is underpriced based on the speed at which she filled his book this year. |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Iwish - 2015-03-04 9:18 AM This thread has really opened my eyes that I'm going to have to find a different horse sport to get into. Mounted shooting seems like it would be fun or I have always wanted to try the trail competition (not endurance but the one where you have obstacles and what not to cross go over under etc.)
This isn't about what horse sport you may like and want to join in. It's about the free market and whats right or wrong. It's not wrong to be a capitalist. What's wrong is not abiding by your agreements and promises. |
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Hugs to You
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Location: In The Land of Cotton | OregonBR - 2015-03-04 12:27 PM Iwish - 2015-03-04 9:18 AM This thread has really opened my eyes that I'm going to have to find a different horse sport to get into. Mounted shooting seems like it would be fun or I have always wanted to try the trail competition (not endurance but the one where you have obstacles and what not to cross go over under etc.) This isn't about what horse sport you may like and want to join in. It's about the free market and whats right or wrong. It's not wrong to be a capitalist. What's wrong is not abiding by your agreements and promises.
If the stallion owner changes after you sent in your booking fee or even the whole stud fee, and doesn't honor the original price, yes that is wrong.
If the stud owners want to change in the middle of the breeding season, (on contracts not sent in/booked) it will remain to be seen how that affects their future business.
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Career in Looney Tune Land
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Location: the high desert | Well I got to figure out how to become a capitalist then. |
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Hugs to You
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Location: In The Land of Cotton | Iwish - 2015-03-04 12:31 PM Well I got to figure out how to become a capitalist then.
This is America - you can do it if you want. |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Whiteboy - 2015-03-04 11:20 AM ThreeCorners - 2015-03-04 11:08 AM Whiteboy - 2015-03-04 11:05 AM ThreeCorners - 2015-03-04 10:53 AM I have seen alot of GREAT performing stallions be duds in the sire dept. Raising ones fee mid season because he himself did good reciently is bad business. Firewaterontherocks was in the exact same spot last year. He would have WON The American had he not pulled the third over leaving it, yet even with the downed third was still second. . Yes, Robyn raised his stud fee, but she did it for THIS year and not just because he himself did good. His foals are just now starting to hit the arena and he already has 3 over the $100,000 earnings mark!!! I may be wrong. But If i remember right FWOTR book was already closed prior to the American. It it had still been open I'm sure she would have raised it that year.
I came back to add. Only Robyn can really answere if she would have raised it last year but my point was, she raised it for this year not because he himself did good at The American. She raised it because of what his foals are doing and they are just starting to get out there.
Exactly! Supply and demand. Last year she booked 50 mares and his book filled in jan. Prior to The American. This year, she upped his book to 65 and filled it in 2 hours. Thats why,I agree with Fatchance in that she would have been smarter to just say his book was full this year. Upped his fee for NEXT year and they would have raced to book and never would have upset anybody by raising it mid stream after he has been advertised at such and such a price for 2015. |
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Champ
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Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | 3canstorun - 2015-03-04 9:30 AM OregonBR - 2015-03-04 12:27 PM Iwish - 2015-03-04 9:18 AM This thread has really opened my eyes that I'm going to have to find a different horse sport to get into. Mounted shooting seems like it would be fun or I have always wanted to try the trail competition (not endurance but the one where you have obstacles and what not to cross go over under etc.) This isn't about what horse sport you may like and want to join in. It's about the free market and whats right or wrong. It's not wrong to be a capitalist. What's wrong is not abiding by your agreements and promises.
If the stud owners want to change in the middle of the breeding season, (on contracts not sent in/booked) it will remain to be seen how that affects their future business.
Is that what happened? I didn't read that anywhere. If that's what happened, I already said that's VERY wrong. It will come back and bite them in the butt. |
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Hugs to You
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Location: In The Land of Cotton | No I am pretty sure that didn't happen. Just saying that if it ever did it would be bad news for any owner and future business. |
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 Veteran
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Location: Vinton, La. | Joleen is kind of busy right now, but I'm sure she would answer anyone's questions. All you have to do is call her. |
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 Expert
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Location: Gainesville, TX | I disagree with the idea that a stud fee is changed midseason, most particularly if a contract is already signed. If the change is not applied to already signed contracts, while much less of a problem, the raising of the price is still a little odd.
I totally support stallion owners setting their own prices year to year and certainly they have the right to change it midyear too . . . may just not be the best idea for business because many people have a certain perception that at least for one year a stud is priced at one amount. If it changes, even with good reason, it just seems odd. |
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Hugs to You
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Location: In The Land of Cotton | teed - 2015-03-04 8:03 AM Thoughts on someone that ups the stud fee in the middle of breeding season because his colts started doing good. Totally understand the fees going up the following year but in the middle of breeding season - I wouldn't think that's good business. Jmo
What stud exactly are you talking about?
We can discuss names as long as we all are nice about it. 
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Veteran
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Location: Vinton, La. | I'm going to clear something up right now. IF you already mailed your contract back to Joleen, your fee will not go up. It's locked in to what your contract states.
Instead of second guessing and throwing stuff out there, call her. |
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 Regular
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| While changing in mid season isn't common, I have seen it done before. It's a big price jump from what it was and in mid season upping it that much isn't going to make some people happy, but after what he did there will still be a LOT of people willing to pay that. Grant it, the contracts that were locked in at the old price still hold true, it's only new ones booking. I knew his fee would go up, just was thinking it would next year not this year. The beginning of 2014 I had made plans to book one of my mares to him for 2015, I had the money and I had made my mind up..well long story short I won a breeding to another very nice stud through a drawing so held off booking to STF until (I was thinking) 2016....yeah kicking myself in the butt every day for that now. As are I'm sure a few other people who wanted to breed to him. But will I pay that next year? Yes probably, the price increase won't scare me off unless he gets to be higher than ASOF (which he isn't far off now) and then I will go with ASOF since he's got more proven babies. STF's babies aren't proven yet, so makes me less inclined to pay what they are asking now. It's more of a gamble, hoping in the near future those babies go on to really be something, which in that case you have a chunk of 'gold' sitting in your barn.
Edited by theerebel 2015-03-04 12:57 PM
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 Cute Little Imp
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Location: N Texas | Iwish - 2015-03-04 7:15 AM
I know I will get flamed for this but I don't care. I hate when people up stud fees because they have a foal or two that suddenly did something. Or they up it because it's another year... so I should pay another $250 because it's 2015?? I would walk away from that stud. If I ever had a stud (I never will though) his stud fee would never change, even if his foals started to make noise. I know a stud who's fee went up $500 because he moved to the same place a "famous" stud stands at....really?? So again I'm going to pay and extra $500 because he happens to be in the same place so and so is at. But at the end of the day, they own the stud so they can do whatever the hec they want to do and we are just at there mercy.
So you're saying Frenchmans Guy, Corona Cartel, Dash Ta Fame, etc should all have the same stud fee as a two year-old, no-name stud? You have to pay for quality, so once those studs prove they can produce good quality foals, they deserve to have a higher fee. I would be pi$$ed if I had a stud that produced big time winners, and had to charge the same as a crappy stud whose foals couldn't out-perform a donkey. |
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Cute Little Imp
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Location: N Texas | Iwish - 2015-03-04 8:08 AM
Ah ok I see. So because I won't pay a certain price for something that means I'm a use-less POS of a horse person and I don't deserve to have something. Got it.
Um no, it means you don't appreciate the fact that you have to spend a little more to get a QUALITY product. Just like Sara Jean can charge more for her art than a four-year-old who can only draw stick figures. If you have a quality product, you deserve to charge more for it. |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: SE KS | Bigtime mistake - 2015-03-04 12:48 PM
I'm going to clear something up right now. IF you already mailed your contract back to Joleen, your fee will not go up. It's locked in to what your contract states.
Instead of second guessing and throwing stuff out there, call her.
Unless I missed it somewhere, the OP did not mention the stallion, for all we know it could be a local
to her area stallion!!!
We are just surmising it is Streaking to Fame!!! |
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 Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | Jolene has been at this game for a long time and she will know what is in her best interest and act accordingly. She is first class in my book and I cannot see her raising his fee on mares that were already booked, not her nature. If she wants to capitalize on The American---good for her and raise his fee moving forward, her call. Running The American was a huge expense for her, even though he qualified to advance each round it is not like he brought in a ton of money. |
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Veteran
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| Since it has been cleared up that none of the signed contracts have been affected by the increase, I really see no problem whatsoever with the owners raising the fee. Now, it is just up to everyone whether the new fee is worth paying for a breeding to him. He has proven himself, so his fee increased. For some, that will be enough to pay the higher price on the fact that he is such a nice stud himself. For others, they will want to wait and see if his babies are proven winners as well, and if they think they will get to see the babies win before the stud fee increases again, they are taking a huge risk. This should not really be a surprise as he has been winning and placing at a lot of big races over the past several months. I have a colt by him that I purchased last year for what I thought was a lot of money as "just a grandson of DTF" but I bought him after doing a lot of research on STF, thinking to myself that there was a POSSIBILITY that he might be one of the great up and coming sires. I also loved the dam lines of this colt and the colt himself, so I took a chance. I am loving how well STF is doing. I love that his stud fee is increasing and that they are not breeding to 1000 mares per year, and I hope he proves to be a producing sire and to see a large return on my investment after the futurities. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 316
| Iwish - 2015-03-04 7:50 AM
Nope, up your stud fee all you want. I will just go elsewhere.
It's called inflation.. Look all around you. Prices on everything is going up. It's also called business. Gas prices, feed prices, hay prices. Everything is going up. that is why stud fees go up. They go up along with everything in America |
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Queen Boobie 2
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| Bigtime mistake - 2015-03-04 12:48 PM
I'm going to clear something up right now. IF you already mailed your contract back to Joleen, your fee will not go up. It's locked in to what your contract states.
Instead of second guessing and throwing stuff out there, call her.
Awesome! |
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Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | bennie1 - 2015-03-04 2:31 PM
Bigtime mistake - 2015-03-04 12:48 PM
I'm going to clear something up right now. IF you already mailed your contract back to Joleen, your fee will not go up. It's locked in to what your contract states.
Instead of second guessing and throwing stuff out there, call her.
Awesome!
Exactly---Jolene has been at this a while, WHY ???? Because she is a straight shooter. |
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 Total Germophobe
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Queen Boobie 2
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| Mighty Broke - 2015-03-04 1:10 PM
Jolene has been at this game for a long time and she will know what is in her best interest and act accordingly. She is first class in my book and I cannot see her raising his fee on mares that were already booked, not her nature. If she wants to capitalize on The American---good for her and raise his fee moving forward, her call. Running The American was a huge expense for her, even though he qualified to advance each round it is not like he brought in a ton of money.
STF certainly made a lot of people sit up and take notice with his stellar performance at the American! |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | May I ask what his new fee is? I'm kicking myself for not buying a mare that was in foal to him a few months ago... but I just don't trust myself with a baby. Looks like I'll be pinching even more pennies to get my hand on an older one. |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | bennie1 - 2015-03-04 1:33 PM Mighty Broke - 2015-03-04 1:10 PM Jolene has been at this game for a long time and she will know what is in her best interest and act accordingly. She is first class in my book and I cannot see her raising his fee on mares that were already booked, not her nature. If she wants to capitalize on The American---good for her and raise his fee moving forward, her call. Running The American was a huge expense for her, even though he qualified to advance each round it is not like he brought in a ton of money. STF certainly made a lot of people sit up and take notice with his stellar performance at the American!
I stood up and took notice at the LG Pro Classic......nice, nice stud. Really nice. |
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Regular
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| Longneck - 2015-03-04 1:34 PM
May I ask what his new fee is? I'm kicking myself for not buying a mare that was in foal to him a few months ago... but I just don't trust myself with a baby. Looks like I'll be pinching even more pennies to get my hand on an older one.
On their website is says Private Treaty, but on some of his other adds the price has been changed to $2,500 |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | theerebel - 2015-03-04 1:38 PM Longneck - 2015-03-04 1:34 PM May I ask what his new fee is? I'm kicking myself for not buying a mare that was in foal to him a few months ago... but I just don't trust myself with a baby. Looks like I'll be pinching even more pennies to get my hand on an older one. On their website is says Private Treaty, but on some of his other adds the price has been changed to $2,500
Thank you! |
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Hugs to You
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Location: In The Land of Cotton | theerebel - 2015-03-04 2:38 PM Longneck - 2015-03-04 1:34 PM May I ask what his new fee is? I'm kicking myself for not buying a mare that was in foal to him a few months ago... but I just don't trust myself with a baby. Looks like I'll be pinching even more pennies to get my hand on an older one. On their website is says Private Treaty, but on some of his other adds the price has been changed to $2,500
Is that the horse you mentioned in your first post? |
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Regular
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| 3canstorun - 2015-03-04 1:45 PM
theerebel - 2015-03-04 2:38 PM Longneck - 2015-03-04 1:34 PM May I ask what his new fee is? I'm kicking myself for not buying a mare that was in foal to him a few months ago... but I just don't trust myself with a baby. Looks like I'll be pinching even more pennies to get my hand on an older one. On their website is says Private Treaty, but on some of his other adds the price has been changed to $2,500
Me? |
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Hugs to You
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Location: In The Land of Cotton | theerebel - 2015-03-04 2:52 PM 3canstorun - 2015-03-04 1:45 PM theerebel - 2015-03-04 2:38 PM Longneck - 2015-03-04 1:34 PM May I ask what his new fee is? I'm kicking myself for not buying a mare that was in foal to him a few months ago... but I just don't trust myself with a baby. Looks like I'll be pinching even more pennies to get my hand on an older one. On their website is says Private Treaty, but on some of his other adds the price has been changed to $2,500 Me?
Yes, you were the original poster weren't you? |
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Regular
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| 3canstorun - 2015-03-04 1:57 PM
theerebel - 2015-03-04 2:52 PM 3canstorun - 2015-03-04 1:45 PM theerebel - 2015-03-04 2:38 PM Longneck - 2015-03-04 1:34 PM May I ask what his new fee is? I'm kicking myself for not buying a mare that was in foal to him a few months ago... but I just don't trust myself with a baby. Looks like I'll be pinching even more pennies to get my hand on an older one. On their website is says Private Treaty, but on some of his other adds the price has been changed to $2,500 Me?
Nope! Not me!! I just jumped into this debate halfway through. I think "teed" was the original poster. |
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Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | theerebel - 2015-03-04 2:59 PM 3canstorun - 2015-03-04 1:57 PM theerebel - 2015-03-04 2:52 PM 3canstorun - 2015-03-04 1:45 PM theerebel - 2015-03-04 2:38 PM Longneck - 2015-03-04 1:34 PM May I ask what his new fee is? I'm kicking myself for not buying a mare that was in foal to him a few months ago... but I just don't trust myself with a baby. Looks like I'll be pinching even more pennies to get my hand on an older one. On their website is says Private Treaty, but on some of his other adds the price has been changed to $2,500 Me? Nope! Not me!! I just jumped into this debate halfway through. I think "teed" was the original poster.
Oops sorry. Small letters on my phone.
But, she still hasn't answered us. |
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Regular
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| teed - 2015-03-04 7:03 AM
Thoughts on someone that ups the stud fee in the middle of breeding season because his colts started doing good. Totally understand the fees going up the following year but in the middle of breeding season - I wouldn't think that's good business. Jmo
No worries!! This was the original post. It could very easily not be STF, I was more answering people who were talking about his fee being upped as well. My apologies if it messed this post up. I hadn't read for the beginning so I was assuming since that is what people were talking about that is who it was in reference to.
Edited by theerebel 2015-03-04 2:02 PM
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Hugs to You
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Location: In The Land of Cotton | theerebel - 2015-03-04 3:01 PM teed - 2015-03-04 7:03 AM Thoughts on someone that ups the stud fee in the middle of breeding season because his colts started doing good. Totally understand the fees going up the following year but in the middle of breeding season - I wouldn't think that's good business. Jmo No worries!! This was the original post. It could very easily not be STF, I was more answering people who were talking about his fee being upped as well. My apologies if it messed this post up. I hadn't read for the beginning so I was assuming since that is what people were talking about that is who it was in reference to.
His did go up. But, after thinkng about it I began to wonder if that is who they were talking about. |
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Regular
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| 3canstorun - 2015-03-04 2:03 PM
theerebel - 2015-03-04 3:01 PM teed - 2015-03-04 7:03 AM Thoughts on someone that ups the stud fee in the middle of breeding season because his colts started doing good. Totally understand the fees going up the following year but in the middle of breeding season - I wouldn't think that's good business. Jmo No worries!! This was the original post. It could very easily not be STF, I was more answering people who were talking about his fee being upped as well. My apologies if it messed this post up. I hadn't read for the beginning so I was assuming since that is what people were talking about that is who it was in reference to.
Same here. I hopped on about the end of page 3 and and there was mention of STF...so that is where I came in at....now I'm back reading....this has been a rather heated page...  |
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Veteran
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Location: Vinton, La. | I just went back and read from the beginning also instead of just the last few pages. If this thread wasn't originally about STF I apologize.
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
oHHHH, hang on a second!! You mean to tell me that you two just read the last page! Well, well, well, we got's ourself a bunch of last page readers.......time to pull out the flogging stick.... |
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 Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712
Location: That part of Texas | casualdust07 - 2015-03-04 10:46 AM Also, I will add.. if you see a stallion who you like, and they increase their fee mid year.. Usually if you just ask them they will explain themselves and it makes sense. I saw one and at first was like, well that't not cool... got my information and it totally makes sense to me and I agreed with their decision.
+1
Studs are a horse business. Like any other business, just call and ask. You might be able to negotiate a better deal based on the circumstances or even what you are bringing to the table yourself in your mare. It wouldn't bother me to see someone raising the price mid-season. It would just have made me wish I'd signed a deal sooner if for some reason they might not give me the old price or a negotiated one. It happens.
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| LRQHS - 2015-03-04 3:00 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
oHHHH, hang on a second!! You mean to tell me that you two just read the last page! Well, well, well, we got's ourself a bunch of last page readers.......time to pull out the flogging stick....
Guilty as charged   
But I did go back and catch myself back up to speed 
Edited by theerebel 2015-03-04 3:08 PM
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | theerebel - 2015-03-04 3:07 PM LRQHS - 2015-03-04 3:00 PM ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
oHHHH, hang on a second!! You mean to tell me that you two just read the last page! Well, well, well, we got's ourself a bunch of last page readers.......time to pull out the flogging stick.... Guilty as charged But I did go back and catch myself back up to speed
Oh, ok....I shall give you back a point, but I am watching you  |
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Regular
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| LRQHS - 2015-03-04 3:10 PM
theerebel - 2015-03-04 3:07 PM LRQHS - 2015-03-04 3:00 PM ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
oHHHH, hang on a second!! You mean to tell me that you two just read the last page! Well, well, well, we got's ourself a bunch of last page readers.......time to pull out the flogging stick.... Guilty as charged But I did go back and catch myself back up to speed
 Yay!!! I will make sure I stay on the straight an narrow from now on!   |
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| Just to be clear-i don't mind a stud fee going up & yes it's their horse they can do what they please-no problem there either. But when they advertise in FF at one price-send you a contract for 1000.00 more and say oh his price went up. Now, I'm Backing away far away-like its been said there's a lot of nice studs out there and one of them will get my money. My mare is bred awesomely, so iI'll look at it as their loss my gain. I believe everything happens for a reason and there's stud owners out there that shoot straight and don't pull the above senerio.
Edited by teed 2015-03-04 7:29 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | It's a good thing the price isn't left up the the stallions....  |
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | komet. - 2015-03-04 8:50 PM
It's a good thing the price isn't left up the the stallions....
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stud fees