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 Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
  
Location: Woodstown, NJ | I am almost out of my own hay. It's mostly fescue. I bought some hay that's an alfalfa/grass mix. I'm not savvy about alfalfa at all because I've never used it but it looks like it's mostly alfalfa. I have been mixing it up but I'm almost out of my own and I'm going to need to buy more and I would like to just go back to this farmer and get it from him. Which would be the alfalfa. But I like to feed a lot of hay. As much as they will eat. Can I feed them this hay liberally like I feed my fescue? Another question. It's really packed together. The flakes are tight. It almost looks like how my hay can get if it's a bottom bale that got damp and has gotten moldy. But there is no mold. I have a great nose for mold. It smells wonderful. Is this how alfalfa is? Thanks! |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| You won't have to feed as much alfalfa as a general rule. I only feed free choice alfalfa if I'm trying to maintain an ulcer prone horse, or fatten a skinny one.
Just put it in a net to make it last a lot longer, they'll usually take about 20 lbs in a 24 hour period to stay healthy. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| Alfalfa does pack and the flakes are heavy. Personally I don't overfeed. I usually feed by the horses weight. |
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Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | I like to feed them a lot of hay because it keeps them happy, especially now because they are all locked up in the corral keeping an injured horse company and they are bored. And it's so cold. It keeps them warm. Will it hurt them if I give them all they will eat? Could they founder on this kind of hay? |
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Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | Classicpotatochip, why is it good for an ulcer prone horse? I have a worrier. |
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Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| If you're super concerned, the best thing to do would be to get the hay tested, and see what the feeding recommendation on that is per horse.
Personally, I've never had one founder, it mostly depends on what cutting, soil type, etc the hay is. First cutting that's been fertilized in places like Idaho can get pretty hot and isn't fed to horses.
Like I say, they'll usually self regulate themselves to about 20 lbs, and if you put it in a slow feed net, it'll last a lot longer.
It's good for ulcer prone horses because it has a higher calcium content, there's lots of literature out there about it.
Most people don't like to feed it free choice because of its cost, and horses just don't need as much of it to stay healthy and fat. Some horses can get hot on it, because of it's increased nutritional value. Again, I haven't had an issue with that. Everything I own gets at least 6-10 lbs of it, if not more.
My feeding program consists of 6 lbs alfalfa pellets, and as much grass hay as they want. My good mare, who I have in a slightly different living situation, get free choice alfalfa/Bermuda cubes. She's regulated herself to about 16 lbs a day. She also get 6 lbs of alfalfa pellets to eat her supplements with, and Renew Gold.
Everything I own is also on a pretty active exercise schedule, and get's richer feed reduced when penned up and not exercising. I don't let mine get sloppy fat. I'm okay with chunky, fat, and sassy, but obese doesn't happen around here. |
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Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | I guess I'll cut back on the grain if they start getting fat. Founder was my worry. Okay, thank you Potato. |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | ALot of ALfalfa bales are tight and compact .. I would be concerned to feed free choice . It can give them the runs if they arent used to it and has alot of protein in it. In winter when there is no pasture they need more hay to..
personally i feed all they want reg hay and mix a few flakes of alfalfa daily..not due to cost. |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
Location: Kansas | I normally feed 2 flakes per horse, 2x a day. |
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 I too, shall remain nameless!
Posts: 2248
Location: Wearing a winter coat...... | I feed free choice second cutting alfalfa hay. My horses have been on it since I had one colic years ago at a boarding stable. Had to rush her to MSU and they educated me on it. I find that people are scared of it up here and call it dairy cow hay......which means there is no one to bid against me at the local auction so I get a pretty good deal. My cribber used to colic often but- knock on wood- since switching to alfalfa six years ago- hasn't at all. Soothes the stomach and lowered my ulcergard bill as well. I also agree about self regulating. Mine do. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1584
Location: Central Texas | Where I am from alfalfa is fed free choice, mostly. Buy big bales and set them out. Now, where I live it is too expensive for free choice. It also rains a lot here and would get ruined. They get about 20 lbs a day each split into two feedings. Much to my amusement, people around here are shocked that I let my horses eat that deadly stuff! Also, I do not feed any grain. The horses are on a coastal pasture. However, I assume that if a horse is not used to it, the change should be spread over a few days. |
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 pressure dripper
Posts: 8696
Location: the end of the rainbow | I live in the desert. Alfalfa is the cheapest and easiest hay to get here. Many horses around here live on nothing but alfalfa hay. |
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 Party Girl
Posts: 12293
Location: Buffalo, Wyoming | We feed one bale a day to 2 horses and it last until the next feeding with some left over. The bales range from 50-70 lbs. |
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Location: Texas | hoofs_in_motion - 2015-03-09 8:04 AM I normally feed 2 flakes per horse, 2x a day.
^^^ This!
All of our horses get alfalfa with their grain, twice a day, and are turned out in oat pastures during the day. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Never heard of alfalfa causing founder, but can increase the incidence of kidney/bladder stones |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Myth 4: Alfalfa is too “rich” to be safely fed to horses. This seems to be a regional myth: Many horses in Western states happily and safely eat the very alfalfa that some East Coast horse owners are afraid to include in equine rations. Alfalfa does contain more protein, digestible energy and calcium0 than grass hays, but it is usually lower in soluble0 sugars. Its reputation for being “rich” may stem from the highly nutritious leaves, which are more digestible than most hays and can contribute to gastrointestinal upset and even colic if introduced too quickly into a horse’s diet.It’s wise to gradually introduce alfalfa hay to your horse’s diet, just as you would acclimate him to lush pasture grass. Most horses would get obese if fed good quality alfalfa free-choice, so it is usually best fed in limited amounts, supplemented with grass hay that provides adequate “chew time” to ward off boredom.
Alfalfa’s higher protein and calcium content do result in increased urine output (and water intake) but are not at all harmful to a healthy horse’s kidneys. In fact, it has been reported that the addition of alfalfa to rations of horses confined to stalls and fed limited amounts of forage actually protects against ulcers0, probably due to the buffering effects of the higher protein and calcium. Finally, contrary to popular belief, research has shown that alfalfa will not cause, and may actually prevent, developmental orthopedic disorders, such as osteochondritis0 dissecans in young horses.
I hear both of the highlighted parts said on here everytime someone talks about feeding alfalfa. Alfalfa will NOT cause the above highlight things.
http://equusmagazine.com/article/fact-based-feeding-14578
Edited by astreakinchic 2015-03-09 10:06 AM
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | astreakinchic - 2015-03-09 10:03 AM Myth 4: Alfalfa is too “rich” to be safely fed to horses. This seems to be a regional myth: Many horses in Western states happily and safely eat the very alfalfa that some East Coast horse owners are afraid to include in equine rations. Alfalfa does contain more protein, digestible energy and calcium0 than grass hays, but it is usually lower in soluble0 sugars. Its reputation for being “rich” may stem from the highly nutritious leaves, which are more digestible than most hays and can contribute to gastrointestinal upset and even colic if introduced too quickly into a horse’s diet.It’s wise to gradually introduce alfalfa hay to your horse’s diet, just as you would acclimate him to lush pasture grass. Most horses would get obese if fed good quality alfalfa free-choice, so it is usually best fed in limited amounts, supplemented with grass hay that provides adequate “chew time” to ward off boredom.
Alfalfa’s higher protein and calcium content do result in increased urine output (and water intake ) but are not at all harmful to a healthy horse’s kidneys. In fact, it has been reported that the addition of alfalfa to rations of horses confined to stalls and fed limited amounts of forage actually protects against ulcers0, probably due to the buffering effects of the higher protein and calcium. Finally, contrary to popular belief, research has shown that alfalfa will not cause, and may actually prevent, developmental orthopedic disorders, such as osteochondritis0 dissecans in young horses.
I hear both of the highlighted parts said on here everytime someone talks about feeding alfalfa. Alfalfa will NOT cause the above highlight things.
http://equusmagazine.com/article/fact-based-feeding-14578
& this is why I can't feed it free choice. I just don't trust my geldings to wean themselves off. Especially since neither are being rode right now. I put almost a whole 50 pound bale (it was missing a flake or two) in their round bale feeder when we got a bad cold spell a few weeks ago and the entire thing was gone faster than it should have been. I think if they were in different fields then I could provide it free choice, but they are both too worried that the other one will steal a bite, so they eat like pigs intentionally.
If I'm hauling then I will only provide alfalfa, but as far as their "normal" routine goes, it's 2-3 flakes for each of them a day and they get whatever else they want from a bermuda grass round bale. Oh, and I add Chaffhaye to their buckets when they get feed. It's not a whole lot, but it's more alfalfa that they're getting. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 316
| To be sure I'd talk to your vet to see how much they recommend for your horses activity level. Also please please do it gradually if you are changing it over! It can cause many issues if you just switch |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| And here is a little more info with the link attached. This article links to a great easy read through of "puzzling out protein."
Alfalfa, The Myths
So why has alfalfa gotten such bad press with horse owners? Some worry that feeding alfalfa increases the risk of colic. Not so, says Lawrence. “Rapid diet changes are associated with colic, so it’s possible that if you change from grass hay to alfalfa hay all of a sudden, or you introduce alfalfa hay abruptly, you could increase the risk of colic,” she said. “Also, when good quality alfalfa is fed ad libitum [allowing the horse free access], horses may over-indulge, and that might increase colic risk as well.
“So if an owner wants to use alfalfa, two guidelines might be to: 1.) Change over to it gradually, and 2.) Limit or at least monitor intake to prevent overeating.”
There is also the misconception that alfalfa can cause kidney damage due to its high protein levels. That’s an old wives’ tale, probably inspired by the fact that horses with high protein intake tend to drink more water and therefore urinate more.
The body’s process for breaking down protein into calories results in nitrogen as a byproduct, which gets filtered out of the body in the horse’s kidneys. A horse that is converting excess protein to calories will drink more water to aid that filtering and will have urine with a strong ammonia smell, as the nitrogen is excreted as urea. But the excess protein does not harm the kidneys.
Some claim that alfalfa hay will make a horse hot or crazy. This isn’t true either. Alfalfa does provide a significant amount of calories, however, and excess calories in any form, whether from alfalfa, grain or oil, without the exercise to burn them, can result in an excessively energetic horse. Alfalfa fed with a careful eye to the proportions of the whole diet and the energy needs of the horse will not create excess energy.
http://chronofhorse.com/alfalfa
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 Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4553
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | Like most feed changes your supposed to do it gradually. Since you are already feeding a mix you shouldn't have a problem. I have fed it free choice and they will eat it like piggies. |
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Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | Thank you guys. Thank you Astreakinchic for the information from the articles. To those who were worried, I'm a fanatic about changes and I am not even switched over to it completely yet and it's been two weeks or more. Someone mentioned how they've gotten us paranoid about it here over on the East coast, not in those words, but boy, that is so true! Even after reading all of this and realizing I have nothing to worry about and so I'm going to get some more from this guy, yikes, I'm still kind of crining inside, lol. Thanks again! |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I love alfalfa.. its expensive here 22.00 for a 50lb bale.I dont worry about the colicing or making them Hot...or the foundering and or kidneys as much either although I do keep track of protein.. I think if you search several articles They all have something differant . its a grey area.. will it hurt them no... will it possibly cause other issues it can..
mine swear bullets when they consume to much .. then the electrolytes get outta whack etc..They get runny stools to .. They do gorge on it though .. so.. its up to us to decide if our horses can handle it or not.. :) |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | SmokinBandits - 2015-03-09 8:32 PM
Thank you guys. Thank you Astreakinchic for the information from the articles. To those who were worried, I'm a fanatic about changes and I am not even switched over to it completely yet and it's been two weeks or more. Someone mentioned how they've gotten us paranoid about it here over on the East coast, not in those words, but boy, that is so true! Even after reading all of this and realizing I have nothing to worry about and so I'm going to get some more from this guy, yikes, I'm still kind of crining inside, lol. Thanks again!
You've seen my Paint mare. She eats only Alfalfa and trust me, she can eat! From what I have seen at client's places, there is some really nice Alfalfa to be had up your way! |
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Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | Bibliafarm, you don't want to know what I pay here. Thanks for the info.
WrapSnap, yes, your Paint mare looks great! Good luck at your clinic. We would have come except Kelly's horse is healing from a suspensory injury. Hope you have more! |
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Expert
Posts: 2121
Location: The Great Northwest | I like to feed Alfalfa because I feed no starchy grains just certain supplements that the Alfalfa doesn't supply or indicated needed in the diet. The horse nutritionist "Getty" recommends 30 to 50% a day of Alfalfa in the total pounds the horse should eat in a 24 hour period. I have easy keepers and need to watch the amount of Alfafa fed to how much work they are doing. I always have mature grass hay 24/7 available. |
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Can I Feed Alfalfa Liberally?