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 Dog Rescue Hero
Posts: 1660
   
Location: Oklahoma City OK | 'Found out over the weekend that a gelding that I know is being offered for sale and the first "post" (not on here) I saw listed him as 14 years old (he's 19) and as grade (he's registered). In my eyes, not only is that fraud, but someone is going to buy what they think is a 14 year old horse, treat him accordingly, when in actuality he's 19 and deserves the respect and care of a 19 year old horse. The seller changed the text as soon as I questioned her but I bet she's still representing him as a grade 14 year old. How can people do those things and live with themselves?!?!?!?
Edited by smmthbr 2015-03-10 8:57 AM
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  Playing the Waiting Game
Posts: 2304
| Playing devils advocate... Maybe she believes if people think he is 14 he may have less chance ending up heading to Mexico. |
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 No Tune in a Bucket
Posts: 2935
Location: Texas | Still not a good reason to misrepresent horse being sold. Hope he finds a good home. |
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Dog Rescue Hero
Posts: 1660
Location: Oklahoma City OK | He's a GOOD horse, good broke - doubtful he's going to head to Mexico...shouldn't be hard to sell...but how would you feel if you bought a horse thinking he was 14 and without papers and then finding out not only was he 19 and with papers but with exceptional breeding? |
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 I hate cooking and cleaning
Posts: 3310
Location: Jersey Girl | smmthbr - 2015-03-10 10:03 AM He's a GOOD horse, good broke - doubtful he's going to head to Mexico...shouldn't be hard to sell...but how would you feel if you bought a horse thinking he was 14 and without papers and then finding out not only was he 19 and with papers but with exceptional breeding?
I wouldn't like it but unfortunately its always buyer beware. |
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | Maybe the person selling him now bought this horse "as a grade 14 year old"? They may have been dupped from the person they bought him from. |
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 Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | I'm not sure that I would be "that" upset over it. As a buyer, I know that I must be cautious and do my research. |
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 Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | I have no idea how people can purposely misrepresent something and not feel bad about it.
Many, many years ago, my sister bought her very first mini donkey. She was told he was about 2 or 3 years old or so. She took him to the vet and was told he was actually closer to 20. That's a pretty big gap! She didn't have enough experience to know the difference between a 2 year old and 20 year old donkey, but sure knows now! She was pretty mad about being lied to, but didn't do anything about it. |
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Playing the Waiting Game
Posts: 2304
| smmthbr - 2015-03-10 9:03 AM He's a GOOD horse, good broke - doubtful he's going to head to Mexico...shouldn't be hard to sell...but how would you feel if you bought a horse thinking he was 14 and without papers and then finding out not only was he 19 and with papers but with exceptional breeding?
If he were priced right and I liked him... If I'm buying a GRADE horse it's up to me to decide if he's worth the price.. BUT to find out later he's registered wouldn't bother me... He's a GELDING breeding doesn't mean anything. I'm obviously not breed showing if I'm looking a grade horses... The age thing I personally feel I'd be able to figure out he may be older than 14. Probably wouldn't be an issue to me either. |
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Dog Rescue Hero
Posts: 1660
Location: Oklahoma City OK | No, I know she was made aware of the horse's age and registration status.
Maybe I'm too close to the situation but I'm surprised that more aren't appalled by the FRAUD aspect. Doesn't say much for the industry we're involved in, does it? Okay, I'll let it go then.....
Edited by smmthbr 2015-03-10 9:27 AM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1182
Location: Do I hear Banjos? |
If the seller is KNOWINGLY mis-representing the age and breed status of this gelding...I'd wonder what else they might be lying about. Yes it's buyer beware...but right is right...and misrepresenting that horse is wrong no matter how ya slice it. |
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Playing the Waiting Game
Posts: 2304
| Gunner11 - 2015-03-10 9:18 AM I have no idea how people can purposely misrepresent something and not feel bad about it. Many, many years ago, my sister bought her very first mini donkey. She was told he was about 2 or 3 years old or so. She took him to the vet and was told he was actually closer to 20. That's a pretty big gap! She didn't have enough experience to know the difference between a 2 year old and 20 year old donkey, but sure knows now! She was pretty mad about being lied to, but didn't do anything about it.
Well that was her bad!! Most people have a knowledgable person go to buy thier FIRST anything... Maybe your sister should of done research BEFORE making the purchase. I'll bet the horse trader saw her coming!! I'm not justifying it just saying how it IS. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Why is she selling him witout papers? Is it because his age is on there and shes worried that no body will buy a 19 year old, that would be silly on her part. But its always buyer beware.  |
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 I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | Simple. The potential buyer should get a vet check. Any vet worth a pinch of poop could tell that he's 19, not 14. Then the potential buyer can call her out on the lie.
One of my biggest pet peeves is dishonest sellers, but you can't fix stupid, so it falls on buyer beware. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| rodeomom13 - 2015-03-10 10:15 AM
Simple. The potential buyer should get a vet check. Any vet worth a pinch of poop could tell that he's 19, not 14. Then the potential buyer can call her out on the lie.
One of my biggest pet peeves is dishonest sellers, but you can't fix stupid, so it falls on buyer beware.
I was told once after the age of 12 no person can really with accuracy determine the age of a horse. |
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 Expert
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Location: The best kept secret in TX | rodeomom13 - 2015-03-10 10:15 AM Simple. The potential buyer should get a vet check. Any vet worth a pinch of poop could tell that he's 19, not 14. Then the potential buyer can call her out on the lie.
One of my biggest pet peeves is dishonest sellers, but you can't fix stupid, so it falls on buyer beware.
This is why I don't understand why the OP is so upset. AGREED It is very wrong to misrepresent a horse. Especially a horse you respect and feel deserves a good retirement home. At the same time, if a seller won't let me vet check a horse, try the horse out, or go over the horse with a fine toothed comb before I buy, I ain't buyin.
People wouldn't be duped all the time if they would just vet check. I am no where near financially ready to purchase and care for another horse, but when I am, you can guarantee I will save up enough to vet check every horse I am interested in that doesn't come from a person I know or a horse I know all the history on. As buyers we should understand this cost is essential in finding the perfect horse for us and it most definitley keeps us safe as buyers. At least then we know what we are getting in to when we buy the horse.
Kind of like buying a used car with a carfax report. If thatreport tells you hey, this things got a ton of miles and has never been maintaned, you know not to buy that car. Same goes for horses. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| cheryl makofka - 2015-03-10 11:24 AM
rodeomom13 - 2015-03-10 10:15 AM
Simple. The potential buyer should get a vet check. Any vet worth a pinch of poop could tell that he's 19, not 14. Then the potential buyer can call her out on the lie.
One of my biggest pet peeves is dishonest sellers, but you can't fix stupid, so it falls on buyer beware.
I was told once after the age of 12 no person can really with accuracy determine the age of a horse.
Most vets (even good ones) would never be able to tell the difference between 19 and 14, only if the gelding were much older would be able to tell a large difference. |
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Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | suzy2qtee - 2015-03-10 9:24 AM
Gunner11 - 2015-03-10 9:18 AM I have no idea how people can purposely misrepresent something and not feel bad about it. Many, many years ago, my sister bought her very first mini donkey. She was told he was about 2 or 3 years old or so. She took him to the vet and was told he was actually closer to 20. That's a pretty big gap! She didn't have enough experience to know the difference between a 2 year old and 20 year old donkey, but sure knows now! She was pretty mad about being lied to, but didn't do anything about it.
Well that was her bad!! Most people have a knowledgable person go to buy thier FIRST anything... Maybe your sister should of done research BEFORE making the purchase. I'll bet the horse trader saw her coming!! I'm not justifying it just saying how it IS.
Oh I know, she doesn't question anyone, just takes them at their word. He was super cheap, so she didn't make a big fuss about it. It was definitely a lesson learned! |
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Dog Rescue Hero
Posts: 1660
Location: Oklahoma City OK | I am upset because it is FRAUD in the horse business and that isn't good for anyone else in the horse business. Hence the reason for the term HORSE TRADER being a negative implication. Most newbies getting into the horse industry or barrel world don't know enough about the foibles of buying a horse, especially one that's not real expensive, to make them require a vet check....they are naiive enough to trust the people selling the horse. It's usually just us that have been burned that now know better and will require a vet check. I know though that I have purchased inexpensive horses from trusted sources without going to the expense of a vet check. Yes, I understand Buyer Beware but really, shouldn't we all be trying to cultivate a better image through honest representation? I guess I will get over being SO UPSET and just shake my head at the lack of integrity and honesty and hope this good horse goes to someone that will treat him with respect due his age and not like he's a 14 year old. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1273
Location: South Dakota | Wrong is wrong in my book. Stuff like this is very frusterating.
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| smmthbr - 2015-03-10 11:20 AM
I am upset because it is FRAUD in the horse business and that isn't good for anyone else in the horse business. Hence the reason for the term HORSE TRADER being a negative implication. Most newbies getting into the horse industry or barrel world don't know enough about the foibles of buying a horse, especially one that's not real expensive, to make them require a vet check....they are naiive enough to trust the people selling the horse. It's usually just us that have been burned that now know better and will require a vet check. I know though that I have purchased inexpensive horses from trusted sources without going to the expense of a vet check. Yes, I understand Buyer Beware but really, shouldn't we all be trying to cultivate a better image through honest representation? I guess I will get over being SO UPSET and just shake my head at the lack of integrity and honesty and hope this good horse goes to someone that will treat him with respect due his age and not like he's a 14 year old.
I agree with you, I would be frustrated, as it is fraud.
It is misrepresenting a horse, and there have been many posts on Facebook and on here about fraudulent people.
It worries me about the people who don't care, as if people don't think this is immoral, then what are their morals, would they do the same thing?
There are buyer/seller beware Facebook pages, if you know for a fact what she is doing is fraudulent, you may want to put her name on one of those pages |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Well she's not the first and sure wont be the last. |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | It's not that I don't think it's crappy, because it is, but you are upset over something that you have no control over. Does it happen? Yes. What can you do? Not much, but protect yourself when you go to buy from someone. It is sad, but that is what everyone needs to do now. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| TrailGirl - 2015-03-10 9:24 AM If the seller is KNOWINGLY mis-representing the age and breed status of this gelding...I'd wonder what else they might be lying about. Yes it's buyer beware...but right is right...and misrepresenting that horse is wrong no matter how ya slice it.
Ditto. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2128
| I would be stewing also if I knew someone was misrepresenting a horse on purpose. It is wrong. If someone I knew were going to look at the horse I wouldnt feel bad about letting them know. Hopefully all the potential buyers will be smart and have a vet check done. There is a woman in my area famous for doing that very thing. Anyone with a lick of sense around here wouldnt buy a goat from her. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 696
| scwebster - 2015-03-11 9:33 AM
I would be stewing also if I knew someone was misrepresenting a horse on purpose. It is wrong. If someone I knew were going to look at the horse I wouldnt feel bad about letting them know. Hopefully all the potential buyers will be smart and have a vet check done. There is a woman in my area famous for doing that very thing. Anyone with a lick of sense around here wouldnt buy a goat from her.
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Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | smmthbr - 2015-03-10 11:20 AM
I am upset because it is FRAUD in the horse business and that isn't good for anyone else in the horse business. Hence the reason for the term HORSE TRADER being a negative implication. Most newbies getting into the horse industry or barrel world don't know enough about the foibles of buying a horse, especially one that's not real expensive, to make them require a vet check....they are naiive enough to trust the people selling the horse. It's usually just us that have been burned that now know better and will require a vet check. I know though that I have purchased inexpensive horses from trusted sources without going to the expense of a vet check. Yes, I understand Buyer Beware but really, shouldn't we all be trying to cultivate a better image through honest representation? I guess I will get over being SO UPSET and just shake my head at the lack of integrity and honesty and hope this good horse goes to someone that will treat him with respect due his age and not like he's a 14 year old.
There's no justification for it, but it happens with EVERYTHING...used cars, used electronics...pretty much anything that can be sold, there will be dishonest sellers. |
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I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | astreakinchic - 2015-03-10 9:26 AM cheryl makofka - 2015-03-10 11:24 AM rodeomom13 - 2015-03-10 10:15 AM Simple. The potential buyer should get a vet check. Any vet worth a pinch of poop could tell that he's 19, not 14. Then the potential buyer can call her out on the lie.
One of my biggest pet peeves is dishonest sellers, but you can't fix stupid, so it falls on buyer beware. I was told once after the age of 12 no person can really with accuracy determine the age of a horse. Most vets (even good ones ) would never be able to tell the difference between 19 and 14, only if the gelding were much older would be able to tell a large difference.
That's interesting. We bought a gelding that was thought to be 15, had the vet look at him and he said he's closer to 19. We bought him anyway because the price was right and he was the right horse for my daughter. We didn't sweat it. It has to do with the shape of the insisors. They are more triangle shaped. He even showed me pictures. You can tell if you are educated.
This is similar to what he showed us.... But his pics were of real horses.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 477
Location: Lost in the swamps | No. I worked in a clinc and A good vet should be able to tell the difference between and 15(give or take) and 20 year old! There are charts that go in intervals of 5 years. Anyone with horse since should know this! If not please educate yourself! 5 plus years is a big difference! |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Maybe you can somehow keep track of the horse and notify the new buyer? If the horse is advertised on FB maybe you should post the info you know. I agree with you, it IS really `crappy and it's not right to the new buyers, nor is it fair to the horse. At 19 that horse is entering into a time of physical changes. |
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 Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712
Location: That part of Texas | ThreeCorners - 2015-03-10 1:33 PM Maybe you can somehow keep track of the horse and notify the new buyer? If the horse is advertised on FB maybe you should post the info you know. I agree with you, it IS really `crappy and it's not right to the new buyers, nor is it fair to the horse. At 19 that horse is entering into a time of physical changes.
+1
I know if I was a horse buyer, I would be grateful to someone who did make it an issue and brought it up to find that someone was doing this. Makes you wonder what's up with the papers? At the least I guess they didn't transfer them when they first got him and lost them = now grade? At the worst . . . makes you wonder if they went with another horse. You don't know what someone will do to make a sale sometimes.
Edited by Red Raider 2015-03-10 2:37 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| rodeomom13 - 2015-03-10 2:04 PM
astreakinchic - 2015-03-10 9:26 AM cheryl makofka - 2015-03-10 11:24 AM rodeomom13 - 2015-03-10 10:15 AM Simple. The potential buyer should get a vet check. Any vet worth a pinch of poop could tell that he's 19, not 14. Then the potential buyer can call her out on the lie.
One of my biggest pet peeves is dishonest sellers, but you can't fix stupid, so it falls on buyer beware. I was told once after the age of 12 no person can really with accuracy determine the age of a horse. Most vets (even good ones ) would never be able to tell the difference between 19 and 14, only if the gelding were much older would be able to tell a large difference.
This is similar to what he showed us.... But his pics were of real horses.
Sigh well I assume most ppl on here go to their local dog and cat vet (and they term him a "good vet") and that vet would most likely not be able to tell the difference between 5 yrs unless he paid attention to dentistry and most don't. They really can only estimate ages near that 15-19 mark. My point was only if the gelding was in his 20s would you be able to tell a large noticeable difference. Most vets would be hesitant to say , "No he's not 14 he is 19." But yes some are good and would be able too.
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Dog Rescue Hero
Posts: 1660
Location: Oklahoma City OK | Red Raider - 2015-03-10 2:36 PM ThreeCorners - 2015-03-10 1:33 PM Maybe you can somehow keep track of the horse and notify the new buyer? If the horse is advertised on FB maybe you should post the info you know. I agree with you, it IS really `crappy and it's not right to the new buyers, nor is it fair to the horse. At 19 that horse is entering into a time of physical changes.
+1
I know if I was a horse buyer, I would be grateful to someone who did make it an issue and brought it up to find that someone was doing this. Makes you wonder what's up with the papers? At the least I guess they didn't transfer them when they first got him and lost them = now grade? At the worst . . . makes you wonder if they went with another horse. You don't know what someone will do to make a sale sometimes.
I am assuming this person doesn't want to provide the actual registration papers for the following reasons:
a) The seller is trying to pass the horse off as being 14 when in fact he actually will be 20 in March, possibly believing he/she cannot get the kind of money he/she is asking for him as a 20 year old, but possibly could as a 14 year old.
b) The seller may not want to provide the registration papers so a possibe buyer cannot locate/contact a former owner to gain more information about the horse.
I have no reason to believe that this person does not have the horse's papers or could not retrieve them, if indeed, they were lost along the way.
Again, my suppositions...I can't think of any other reasons someone would NOT want to provide the papers with the horse. Surely a horse with registration papers, especially papers verifying exceptional pedigree and allowing a horse to also compete in AQHA would be of more value than one without papers, don't you think?
I also hate to see "loose papers"....I worked enough sale barns in my MUCH younger days to know that "loose" papers often got erroneously attached to grade horses...
I wouldn't know how to keep track of the horse if indeed he was sold as a grade horse. The original post that I saw on FB noting the horse for sale was quickly deleted. Perhaps they decided not to sell the horse after all.....but if they do continue to offer him for sale, I hope they represent the horse truthfully. I'm off my soapbox, done being SO UPSET and applaud all of you that agreed with me that it is wrong. |
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I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | astreakinchic - 2015-03-10 1:44 PM
rodeomom13 - 2015-03-10 2:04 PM
astreakinchic - 2015-03-10 9:26 AM cheryl makofka - 2015-03-10 11:24 AM rodeomom13 - 2015-03-10 10:15 AM Simple. The potential buyer should get a vet check. Any vet worth a pinch of poop could tell that he's 19, not 14. Then the potential buyer can call her out on the lie.
One of my biggest pet peeves is dishonest sellers, but you can't fix stupid, so it falls on buyer beware. I was told once after the age of 12 no person can really with accuracy determine the age of a horse. Most vets (even good ones ) would never be able to tell the difference between 19 and 14, only if the gelding were much older would be able to tell a large difference.
This is similar to what he showed us.... But his pics were of real horses.
Sigh well I assume most ppl on here go to their local dog and cat vet (and they term him a "good vet" ) and that vet would most likely not be able to tell the difference between 5 yrs unless he paid attention to dentistry and most don't. They really can only estimate ages near that 15-19 mark. My point was only if the gelding was in his 20s would you be able to tell a large noticeable difference. Most vets would be hesitant to say , "No he's not 14 he is 19." But yes some are good and would be able too.
My vet is one of the best horse vets in the northwest. I'm pretty sure he could tell. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | cheryl makofka - 2015-03-10 10:24 AM rodeomom13 - 2015-03-10 10:15 AM Simple. The potential buyer should get a vet check. Any vet worth a pinch of poop could tell that he's 19, not 14. Then the potential buyer can call her out on the lie.
One of my biggest pet peeves is dishonest sellers, but you can't fix stupid, so it falls on buyer beware. I was told once after the age of 12 no person can really with accuracy determine the age of a horse.
That's total BS unless someone took power tools and purposely took them down to scam someone. A good dentist can always get within 2 years. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| rodeomom13 - 2015-03-10 4:15 PM
astreakinchic - 2015-03-10 1:44 PM
rodeomom13 - 2015-03-10 2:04 PM
astreakinchic - 2015-03-10 9:26 AM cheryl makofka - 2015-03-10 11:24 AM rodeomom13 - 2015-03-10 10:15 AM Simple. The potential buyer should get a vet check. Any vet worth a pinch of poop could tell that he's 19, not 14. Then the potential buyer can call her out on the lie.
One of my biggest pet peeves is dishonest sellers, but you can't fix stupid, so it falls on buyer beware. I was told once after the age of 12 no person can really with accuracy determine the age of a horse. Most vets (even good ones ) would never be able to tell the difference between 19 and 14, only if the gelding were much older would be able to tell a large difference.
This is similar to what he showed us.... But his pics were of real horses.
Sigh well I assume most ppl on here go to their local dog and cat vet (and they term him a "good vet" ) and that vet would most likely not be able to tell the difference between 5 yrs unless he paid attention to dentistry and most don't. They really can only estimate ages near that 15-19 mark. My point was only if the gelding was in his 20s would you be able to tell a large noticeable difference. Most vets would be hesitant to say , "No he's not 14 he is 19." But yes some are good and would be able too.
My vet is one of the best horse vets in the northwest. I'm pretty sure he could tell.
It was nothing snippy to you and i apologize if you took it that way. I'm glad you go to a vet that would be one of the good ones I mentioned and would be able to tell a difference and have the guts to say he did notice a difference in the age you stated and the age he noticed from inspection of the teeth.
Back on topic: If the OP is concerned you could post on fb pages that she is misrepresenting the gelding and to pm you for more info with screen shots of said horse. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Nevertooold - 2015-03-10 4:31 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-03-10 10:24 AM rodeomom13 - 2015-03-10 10:15 AM Simple. The potential buyer should get a vet check. Any vet worth a pinch of poop could tell that he's 19, not 14. Then the potential buyer can call her out on the lie.
One of my biggest pet peeves is dishonest sellers, but you can't fix stupid, so it falls on buyer beware. I was told once after the age of 12 no person can really with accuracy determine the age of a horse.
MY point LOL Mostly only dentists are going to get very accurate! |
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 Ima Fickle Fan
Posts: 3547
Location: Texas | To the OP, I would also be upset. I would also be frustrated because I couldn't change the outcome unless I personally bought the horse. Is it fraud? You betcha.
And I know papers can also be switched, but this is probably the biggest reason I stay away from grade horses. Not saying that great ones aren't out there. I just don't always buy the excuses that go along with grade horses. |
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Location: Texas | To the OP, I would feel the exact same way. Yes, there will always be people who lie and have no morals, but it's hard to sit back and watch someone lie - especially when it's a "close to home" type thing.
It's a shame that we do have to beware of so much and can't take people at their word anymore.
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 pressure dripper
Posts: 8696
Location: the end of the rainbow | yep, wrong is wrong. I would be upset too. Unfortunately yet another reason I am hesitant to buy a grade horse or a used saddle unless I personally know the seller. |
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boon
Posts: 3
| I know this topic is on horse representation and not about aging a horse. However I can't help from putting a few thoughts in on the aging of a horse. Anything over the age of 12 is a total estimate. The "cups" of the teeth are the only true way of aging. You can not go off of wear. If I showed a 14 gelding who lived his whole life in New Mexico. His teeth would look extremely wore compared to a horse that lived out his 14 years in Iowa. The sand in New Mexico wore his teeth faster. In this day and age you can't be fore sure where a horse has lived his life. Exspecially a grade horse. All ANY vet can do is guess. |
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 Night Watchman
Posts: 5516
Location: Central Montana | EqualRanch - 2015-03-10 3:22 PM To the OP, I would feel the exact same way. Yes, there will always be people who lie and have no morals, but it's hard to sit back and watch someone lie - especially when it's a "close to home" type thing.
It's a shame that we do have to beware of so much and can't take people at their word anymore.
If you have proof, texts, etc. wait until the horse is sold and turn the info over to the new owner. The new owner can pursue it in court of she/he so chooses. |
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Location: In my own little world | I would be sending a PM to the person who put the horse up for sale mentioning you saw the ad on the horse for sale and was wondering if she was aware that the horse was actually 14, not 19 and a duplicate set of papers could be obtained from AQHA. That way they would certainly be aware that someone was on to them and perhaps deter them from shady practices. But I'm a little bold that way and don't care for someone who will lie so it doesn't bother me to call them out if Ifor sure know the truth. |
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 Thread Killer
Posts: 7543
| I guess I can understand the change of age, but why the change to grade if he's registered? Seems like that would help her sell him. Do his papers have a history of HYPP or something? |
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 Special Somebody
Posts: 3951
Location: Finally horseback again.... | cheryl makofka - 2015-03-10 10:24 AM rodeomom13 - 2015-03-10 10:15 AM Simple. The potential buyer should get a vet check. Any vet worth a pinch of poop could tell that he's 19, not 14. Then the potential buyer can call her out on the lie.
One of my biggest pet peeves is dishonest sellers, but you can't fix stupid, so it falls on buyer beware. I was told once after the age of 12 no person can really with accuracy determine the age of a horse.
Who ever told you that lied... LOL.
Dentition is pretty accurate up into a horses 20s. |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Just Plain Lucky - 2015-03-11 7:43 AM I guess I can understand the change of age, but why the change to grade if he's registered? Seems like that would help her sell him. Do his papers have a history of HYPP or something?
Because the registration papers will prove his age as 19 and not 14. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I bought a "20 year old" horse for my daughter. Was told his papers were lost, but that wasn't important to me. Opened the envelope with his coggins papers on the way home--coggins said he was 22, the copy of his AQHA papers I didn't know I was getting said he was 24. Not that it mattered because he was what my daughter needed, but I wouldn't have paid as much if I had known. Asked the seller why she told me the wrong age and she said she couldn't remember how old he was and had told me he was "in his 20s", not 20. Whatever, chicky, even your ad said 20. He's 27 now and we still have him...he's probably the soundest horse here. LOL |
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Thread Killer
Posts: 7543
| ThreeCorners - 2015-03-11 9:32 AM
Just Plain Lucky - 2015-03-11 7:43 AM I guess I can understand the change of age, but why the change to grade if he's registered? Seems like that would help her sell him. Do his papers have a history of HYPP or something?
Because the registration papers will prove his age as 19 and not 14.
Well, duh, Just Plain Lucky! |
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Dog Rescue Hero
Posts: 1660
Location: Oklahoma City OK | ropenrun - 2015-03-11 1:09 AM I would be sending a PM to the person who put the horse up for sale mentioning you saw the ad on the horse for sale and was wondering if she was aware that the horse was actually 14, not 19 and a duplicate set of papers could be obtained from AQHA. That way they would certainly be aware that someone was on to them and perhaps deter them from shady practices. But I'm a little bold that way and don't care for someone who will lie so it doesn't bother me to call them out if Ifor sure know the truth.
As soon as I saw the "ad" on FB, I posted a message asking her about it and she immediately took the ad off FB and "unfriended" me. I don't think she would have done that if there wasn't something erroneous.
The horse had no Impressive behind him...fantastic running and barrel racing pedigree in fact......as I mentioned before, I think that selling the horse as grade, without papers, would only be so it could be sold as 14 rather than coming 20. |
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | smmthbr - 2015-03-11 9:59 AM ropenrun - 2015-03-11 1:09 AM I would be sending a PM to the person who put the horse up for sale mentioning you saw the ad on the horse for sale and was wondering if she was aware that the horse was actually 14, not 19 and a duplicate set of papers could be obtained from AQHA. That way they would certainly be aware that someone was on to them and perhaps deter them from shady practices. But I'm a little bold that way and don't care for someone who will lie so it doesn't bother me to call them out if Ifor sure know the truth. As soon as I saw the "ad" on FB, I posted a message asking her about it and she immediately took the ad off FB and "unfriended" me. I don't think she would have done that if there wasn't something erroneous.
The horse had no Impressive behind him...fantastic running and barrel racing pedigree in fact......as I mentioned before, I think that selling the horse as grade, without papers, would only be so it could be sold as 14 rather than coming 20.
Wow.... Smh....
Karma=  |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| wrong is wrong is wrong. Yes, it is buyer beware but since when is it the buyers responsibility to make the seller honest? That's like saying its the banks fault for getting robbed because the robber got away with it! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 550
| I've never had a vet age a horse in a vet check unless I asked, so even if they vet check that may not come up. |
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I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | quikchik - 2015-03-11 6:54 PM I've never had a vet age a horse in a vet check unless I asked, so even if they vet check that may not come up.
I think if it's an older grade horse and the sellers say they "think" it's 15, having the vet look isn't a bad idea. With my deal, we just wanted to know. We were going to buy the horse anyway. |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | RoaniePonie11 - 2015-03-11 7:45 PM wrong is wrong is wrong. Yes, it is buyer beware but since when is it the buyers responsibility to make the seller honest? That's like saying its the banks fault for getting robbed because the robber got away with it!
^^ This ^^  |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 700
Location: Driving, Grooming, or Saddling for a Kid! | eh it happens....all the time. Its not the buyers responsability to make the seller honest but it is the buyer's responsability to protect themselves. And the best way to do that is to educate yourself (which is the buyers responsability) or surround yourself with educated people that wont let you get "robbed". |
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 Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | I'm appalled too. Sadly, this happens all the time. You will notice a lot of "teenaged" horses mysteriously with no papers. |
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I am your favorite rash and you know it
Location: Being pushed over the edge, NM | smmthbr - 2015-03-11 7:59 AM ropenrun - 2015-03-11 1:09 AM I would be sending a PM to the person who put the horse up for sale mentioning you saw the ad on the horse for sale and was wondering if she was aware that the horse was actually 14, not 19 and a duplicate set of papers could be obtained from AQHA. That way they would certainly be aware that someone was on to them and perhaps deter them from shady practices. But I'm a little bold that way and don't care for someone who will lie so it doesn't bother me to call them out if Ifor sure know the truth. As soon as I saw the "ad" on FB, I posted a message asking her about it and she immediately took the ad off FB and "unfriended" me. I don't think she would have done that if there wasn't something erroneous.
The horse had no Impressive behind him...fantastic running and barrel racing pedigree in fact......as I mentioned before, I think that selling the horse as grade, without papers, would only be so it could be sold as 14 rather than coming 20.
I think you're absolutely right to be upset, and I am constantly appalled at the lengths people will go to to make a buck. Of course we're in the minority; it seems people are more willing to turn a blind eye, try to justify fraud (yes, that's what it is) or simply don't care if they can somehow benefit from it. Hell, a very famous and now very popular barrel racer is an old hand at this and God forbid someone mention it. |
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SO UPSET!!