Murphy - 2015-03-11 8:24 AM

The bad thing about EPM is that symptoms aren't all the same for every single horse. I had two mares diagnosed and both of them had different symptoms. I would test her for EPM for sure, especially if she is suddenly walking strange.  

lexyy12 - 2015-03-11 8:33 AM I know...epm is so hard :( what's Getting me the most is her sudden extrem drop in weight. A month ago she was very fat and extremely sassy. About 3 weeks ago I started noticing a little drop in weight so I just added more food, last week and half 2 weeks she looks like she is starving. It's scaring me.

hoofs_in_motion - 2015-03-11 9:02 AM I hope your mare didn't have a relapse with EPM. Call the vet and see what you can find out.  

lexyy12 - 2015-03-11 8:05 AM  This is a different mare....I think I did make it sound like it was the same one. 

hoofs_in_motion - 2015-03-11 9:13 AM


Okay good! Was hoping it wasn't her. She isn't tilting her head is she? That is how I figured out my gelding had it....vet said he could of had it all along and I just never noticed the symptoms. He came from the feedlot thin, I fed him.....noticed a change in weight (good change)....then all of a sudden he just dropped a significant amount of weight, held his head in an odd way..and looked as though he was dragging his hind legs when he walked.  

NJJ - 2015-03-11 10:45 AM I know this may sound strange.......but have you consulted with a VET ???? 

lexyy12 - 2015-03-11 9:53 AM He is either coming out tonight on his way home or in the morning. 



Im completely stumped and upset. 



Could EPSM be a thought?

NJJ - 2015-03-11 7:45 AM I know this may sound strange.......but have you consulted with a VET ???? 

UTAHCANCHASER - 2015-03-11 10:43 AM I would not be waiting for the vet to come to you, I would be hauling to him ASAP! 

UTAHCANCHASER - 2015-03-11 9:43 AM

I would not be waiting for the vet to come to you, I would be hauling to him ASAP! 

ccarpe18 - 2015-03-12 10:19 AM Kind of off topic-is there a webiste that has a list of diseases, viruses & the sort listed with symptoms for horses? I've been hearing about A LOT of stuff lately, & I want to be as informed as possible. (& not drive everyone on this forum crazy lol)

GLP - 2015-03-11 12:49 PM I have never understood why people are so reluctant to take their horse to the vet when they are obviously sick/hurting. Prayers for your horse.

lexyy12 - 2015-03-11 11:54 AM  I had this trouble with one of my geldings and I just upped his feed and he was fine. So that's what I was doing with her. i am only reluctant to take her to someone else bc of her weight. This vet knows me and my horses and knows the shape she was in and I'm afraid of what they will do or say bc of her condition. 

rachellyn80 - 2015-03-11 10:11 AM


"Walking funny" in the rear end is a serious sign of a neurological issue that "upping her feed" won't fix.

hammer_time - 2015-03-11 11:15 AM In her defense the horse just started walking weird. She had been losing weight and that's why she upped the feed.

lexyy12 - 2015-03-11 10:42 AM  Whole oats with molasses and her hay is grass with some alfalfa. 

hammer_time - 2015-03-11 1:15 PM In her defense the horse just started walking weird. She had been losing weight and that's why she upped the feed.

Nevertooold - 2015-03-11 1:24 PM


You said you changed feed..What grain were you feeding her before the switch? 

LMS - 2015-03-11 1:38 PM

Neurological symptoms in horses usually trigger a West Nile warning in my brain.  I would definitely get a vet out asap.  I do not have any EPM experience either due to my location so want to throw out the West Nile as a thought. 

You also could be looking at some very serious organ issues.  Liver disease can cause many problems, mostly weight loss which incapacitates the horse to the point of death (hence the walking funny)  serious liver disease will show yellow in the whites of the eyes and yellowing of the gumline.  Some of these things go hand in hand one issue causing the other.


For what it's worth, so MANY people are so hesitant to go to the vet because so MANY vets are expensive and wishy washy.  I am very lucky to have some veterinary background AND a cousin that is a vet to discuss issues and pick his brain.   I feel that after one person says to go to the vet , that is good enough and the rest should probably aid in experiences on a forum.  I am not here to diagnose, I am here to offer experience (which many are much more versed than I am)  Lets face it, many of us can't afford to run to the vet ALL the time (wish I could) and therefore do a little research before deciding.  (also some of the vets in my area are a couple weeks out so if you have to go in today you pay an emergency charge!)

I'm sure the OP is very concerned about her horse, otherwise, she wouldn't have been on here looking for some idea's.  Hope everything turns out OK with her horse. 

Crowned Image - 2015-03-11 1:55 PM

is she walking drunk, wobbly, or leaning? Or is it a typical kind of lameness walk?
Have you noticed any drooping on her around her face or body?
Have you noticed a change in her breathing, either picked up or slowed down?

I hope for the best for you!

Bibliafarm - 2015-03-11 2:10 PM

What is her temp

Southtxponygirl - 2015-03-11 2:21 PM

Had a horse that did this years ago, was walking like he was drunk and leaning on fences, had him at my house maybe a week befor all this started, my sister just bought him, he was having a hard time placing his feet, had my vet out there as soon as I noticed all this, ran test's on him thinking Rabies and it come out that he has West Niles, the out come was not good...And there was no way this horse could be trailer he had no balance, think goodness my Vet lived up the road from me.
Please dont be hard on the OP, she was doing what she thinks is right, some time things happen and we try to figure out the problems outself's befor we call a Vet. Give her some support, she seems like a really nice girl. 

Bibliafarm - 2015-03-11 2:24 PM I dont think anyone is being hard on her? just asking  questions to help her or give opinions to what it can be? of course vet is best option and id be at vets now if she is that bad....



wnv has temps usually and very unbalanced but can be slight ...some are affected more then  others .how old is this horse

mruggles - 2015-03-11 2:28 PM

im all for doctoring at home, but there comes a point when you have to realize its more than can be handled and even after a week of dropping weight that fast it should have been a concern ..........and ppl are concerned for the horse.................

m

lexyy12 - 2015-03-12 12:32 PM Really?! Oh I forgot...your perfect. Yes, I made a mistake. I'm not perfect. I should I realized the seriousness of this before but like I said exact same thing happened with my gelding and he bounced back after upping the grain. She was going to be seen by the vet but I didn't think it was an emergency.

Bibliafarm - 2015-03-11 1:24 PM
her
I dont think anyone is being hard on ? just asking  questions to help her or give opinions to what it can be? of course vet is best option and id be at vets now if she is that bad....

wnv has temps usually and very unbalanced but can be slight ...some are affected more then  others .how old is this horse

hammer_time - 2015-03-11 1:48 PM  I found this article to be informative....quick overview on other neurological possibilities.



http://www.epmhorse.org/Diagnosis/Diagnosis.htm

IRunOnFaith - 2015-03-11 2:54 PM  

lexyy12 - 2015-03-11 2:20 PM  Thank you. Im really thinking neurological. I have the Ohio state vet close to me but I'm nervous to take her there because of her weight but I'm honestly about passed that point just to save her. All 4 of my other horses look good and my other animals are good too. 

IRunOnFaith - 2015-03-11 3:25 PM I mean... If they say anything you have all your posts here where you were concerned for her weight and such... So that's proof you were trying to help.

Surely if they do anything drastic like take you to court or something stupid the forums would hold up in court. I mean, your face is on your profile LOL  

hoofs_in_motion - 2015-03-11 4:08 PM

hold on everyone.....horses can lose weight in a number of ways.....stress could be a factor as well. I had a gelding once several years ago who looked great...then dropped weight all of a sudden because he was stressed out about some contruction work being done close to his pasture.....even had the vet take blood samples etc...showed up clear.

Alexa's mare might have an issue, but it could be a number of factors...instead of jumping down ones throat, lets try and be civil instead of bring of neglect of hauling her in. Crap happens for christ sakes!!!  

hoofs_in_motion - 2015-03-11 4:08 PM hold on everyone.....horses can lose weight in a number of ways.....stress could be a factor as well. I had a gelding once several years ago who looked great...then dropped weight all of a sudden because he was stressed out about some contruction work being done close to his pasture.....even had the vet take blood samples etc...showed up clear.



Alexa's mare might have an issue, but it could be a number of factors...instead of jumping down ones throat, lets try and be civil instead of bring of neglect of hauling her in. Crap happens for christ sakes!!!  

Bibliafarm - 2015-03-11 3:12 PM I dont think anyone is jumping down her throat. I think they all said theyd be taking her in.. reason being...................she stated the mare could hardly walk and very unsteady ..  she then stated she didnt want to due to mares condition.. noone jumped down her throat over losing wieght.want to make sure that is straight

dianeguinn - 2015-03-11 4:14 PM Might also want him to check for EHV-1...she will be running a fever, though, I'm pretty sure, if that's what it is.

lexyy12 - 2015-03-11 3:16 PM  I'm going to check her temp when I get home again. 

hoofs_in_motion - 2015-03-11 3:17 PM mesquitos were thick last night when I went to ride...I was getting eaten alive by the darn things. Have you vaccinated her recently for EHV? 

rachellyn80 - 2015-03-11 3:32 PM You mean WNV...I don't think there's a vaccine for EHV yet.

TNcowgirl88 - 2015-03-11 4:34 PM Immune Mediated Myositis



What is IMM?

Immune mediated myositis (IMM) is a disorder in which the immune system of horses attacks the skeletal muscles causing rapid atrophy of the muscles along the topline.



What causes IMM?

This immune mediated disease is probably caused by a loss of self tolerance by the immune system to the antigens present on the horse’s own muscle cells. This means that the immune system fails to recognize muscle cells as a part of the body and begins to see them as foreign. Certain infectious agents or possibly vaccines are thought to “trigger” this reaction. The most common disease believed to trigger IMM in the horse is Streptococcus infections. However, in only 40% of IMM cases is an infectious process ever identified.



How common is IMM?

Immune mediated myositis is rare in horses but it is the most common cause of rapid atrophy of the topline in Quarter and Paint horses.



What are the clinical signs?

Rapid loss of muscle mass, usually symmetric, is seen in the back (epaxial) and rump (gluteal) muscles. The atrophy along the horse’s topline typically becomes apparent within one to 3 days. Depression, loss of appetite and stiffness are also seen. If advanced, horses can have difficulty standing.



Are there any groups of horses that are more susceptible to IMM?

Quarter Horses and Paints are the primary breeds affected by IMM, however, Thoroughbreds, ponies, and Icelandic Horses have also been diagnosed with IMM. Horses under the age of 8 years old or over the age of 17 years old are more likely to develop the disease.



How is it diagnosed?



History

Horses with a recent history of respiratory disease or that have had recent exposure to horses with respiratory disease are at higher risk for developing IMM.



Routine diagnostic results

Blood chemistry results will typically show a chronic increase in serum creatine kinase (CK) and aspartate transaminase (AST) of up to 10,000 U/L.



Additional diagnostics

A definitive diagnosis requires muscle biopsies of the gluteal or epaxial muscles, semimembranosus muscle is often normal. Extensive lymphocyte infiltration and mononuclear vasculitis with regenerative and atrophied myofibers are characteristic features of IMM. We recommend submitting several muscle samples; 1) biopsies of atrophied rump/back muscles (can be in formalin using a large gauge trucut) and fresh semimembransus to rule out other diseases.



What are other diseases that look similar to IMM?

Equine Motor Neuron Disease

Malabsorption/cachetic conditions

Cushings disease in older horses

Homozygous for type 1 PSSM

Neurogenic muscle atrophy (trauma)



How is it treated?

IMM is remarkably responsive to corticosteroids. Typical therapy consists of dexamethasone (0.05 mg/kg) for 3 days, followed by prednisolone (1 mg/kg for 7 to 10 days) tapered by 100 mg/week over 1 month. We recommend a CBC be performed and antibiotic therapy is recommended if a leukocytosis, hyperfibrinogenemia or lymphadenopathy is present.



Are there any management strategies that can help a horse with IMM?

Horses recovering from muscle atrophy should be fed a concentrate in addition to hay that is balanced for vitamins and minerals and has high quality protein. (alfalfa hay may help here). If IMM has occurred within a month of vaccination, we recommend spreading out necessary vaccines with at least 6 weeks in between to see if one of these triggers a reaction. S equi vaccines are not generally recommended for horses that have had IMM.



What is the prognosis for a horse with IMM?

IMM usually resolves without long term consequences. Improvement in appetite should occur within 48 hours of steroid therapy, muscle atrophy should stop and then within 2-3 months muscle mass should return. In some cases there may be areas in a muscle that have a permanent divot. Without corticosteroid treatment, atrophy will eventually resolve and return of muscle mass may take a longer period of time.

Some horses may show signs of recrudescence of the syndrome particularly within in a year or two of initial presentation. Call your veterinarian to begin steroid therapy as soon as you notice muscle atrophy.

KRJ1791 - 2015-03-11 6:40 PM Is she walking as if her front is on one path & her hind on another? Sorta like she wants to go forward but kind of sideways?  

mruggles - 2015-03-11 11:51 AM


 http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/index.html

m

streakysox - 2015-03-11 9:58 PM I have had a Merck Vet Manual since 1960. Bought a new one about 4 years ago. If you have horses, it is a necessity. It sounds to me like this horse has a severe case of EPM. If that is the case you are wasting your time getting it tested. Would probably be most humane to put it down if that is the case. Sorry.

lexyy12 - 2015-03-11 5:31 PM Now I'm just trying to decide if I should have my vet come out and check her or have OSU come out. I bet we could get her loaded but I'm worried about her being stable and getting her backed out. The drive is only a few minutes from osu. My vet is cheaper but I'm not sure how educated he is about things like this.

barrelracr131 - 2015-03-12 11:14 AM

Just to update, I think they are at the vets now... I saw something on her FB that made it seem like they were looking at her now

I'm guessing she will be on to update later. She was asking for prayers for the horse.

lexyy12 - 2015-03-12 9:23 AM Thanks Alison! Update: she is at OSU now. I spoke with the on call vet last night and they agreed she was stable enough to wait until this morning. They are concerned but hopeful bc of how alert she is and that she is eating, drinking and going to the bathroom like normal. Her gut sounds great. All of her vitals are normal. Because of her condition they don't want to start doing a ton of tests on her and stress her out or make her more weak so she is going to spend a couple days there. They are going to call me with an update on what they have done in a few hours. I could tell they were skeptical about her weight but once I showed a picture of her I took just over a month ago they realized how sudden it was. I think to make me feel better, I al going to send pictures of my other horses to show their condition. Thank you for all the advice I have been given. I will update again once I get a call from the vet.

lexyy12 - 2015-03-12 10:23 AM Thanks Alison! Update: she is at OSU now. I spoke with the on call vet last night and they agreed she was stable enough to wait until this morning. They are concerned but hopeful bc of how alert she is and that she is eating, drinking and going to the bathroom like normal. Her gut sounds great. All of her vitals are normal. Because of her condition they don't want to start doing a ton of tests on her and stress her out or make her more weak so she is going to spend a couple days there. They are going to call me with an update on what they have done in a few hours. I could tell they were skeptical about her weight but once I showed a picture of her I took just over a month ago they realized how sudden it was. I think to make me feel better, I al going to send pictures of my other horses to show their condition. Thank you for all the advice I have been given. I will update again once I get a call from the vet.

cheryl makofka - 2015-03-12 7:23 PM Other things to think about Wobblers String halt Shivers Also get a copy of the blood work, for the just incase, I have learned one vets normal may not be another's.

Bibliafarm - 2015-03-12 7:35 PM stringhalt would make sense.. considering her backend issue..



the weight issue.. some horses dont do well at all on oats thats not a reason to lose so much but just for future info.. she may need more calories

when were her teeth last done? 

lexyy12 - 2015-03-12 6:31 PM


 How are these things diagnosed? 

cheryl makofka - 2015-03-12 8:29 PM My understanding vets can diagnose string halt by observation and ruling out any thing else it could be (west Nile, EPM, neurological). I have seen one horse with string halt (not mine, but when she came down with it, she became a hard keeper, don't know why, and never asked if the two were connected) Shivers again diagnosis is by observation, never had one but supposedly horses with shivers have difficulty backing up, there is a THEORY it could be linked to Wimpy bred horses, my understanding very rare so not many vets know how to diagnose Wobblers can be a traumatic injury causing damage to the spinal cord, this could be caused by the horse getting kicked in the neck, wiping out in the field. My understanding this one is a crap shoot to diagnose as well, generally by symptoms, and sometimes xray the vertebrae to see if there any abnormalities. Since she is at a university, the students have tons of text books, ask about the three, if they say no, ask why and can they show you the proof, use it as a learning experience.

lexyy12 - 2015-03-12 8:17 PM

 He asked if I had any recent photos of her and seemed to change his tune about it once I showed him one. He understandably asked about my other horses condition. 

I feel better knowing she is stable and eating there. Hopefully we can get some answers tomorrow. 

jbhoot - 2015-03-12 10:04 PM I can tell from your posts on this thread and others about this problem you care vary much for this mare and your other horses. From what you have stated about your mare's condition I suspect that this may be more than what you feed. But I would take a sample of your hay and your oats to OSU to look at it and run any tests if they see anything out of the ordinary. I suggest this because I once had a horse that had the same thing happen. Rapid weight lose and lose of control of the hind end. It turned out that the feed that I had gotten from the local feed mill had been mixed right after they had mixed chicken feed in the same mixer. The chicken feed had several things in it that where harmful to horses in it. It caused kidney and liver damage to the horse. The horse did recover. This was also at OSU. The strange thing is several other horses where on the same feed and had on ill effects. Also I have had several horses treated at OSU over the years. Just a heads up when to talk to them ask for the VET in charge of the case. The students give most of the care with a Vet that over sees them. So when you call in after hours you most likely get a student. Ask for the Vet.

classicpotatochip - 2015-03-13 9:06 AM Don't EPM results take a while to get back? Or does OSU lab have it's own EPM testing capability?

classicpotatochip - 2015-03-13 9:56 AM Blood test should show any kidney failure. Stifle issues can cause them to walk oddly in the back. But it really sounds like EPM to me.

daisycake123 - 2015-03-14 6:55 AM Please go on the internet and look up epm. I have spent thousand of dollars tring to fix my horse sent epm bloodwork to,uc davis only to be neg. Horse looking worse every month. Sent bloodwork to pathogenes and did her bloodwork and treatment. My horse has been off due to my being sick all winter, all i can say he is using his rear and snaps those fetlocks every day when i turn him out. He is getting shod this week my farrier will tell me if he is fixed, but he looks really good.

shubug007 - 2015-03-14 6:00 PM

Could it be a mineral imbalance?

Bibliafarm - 2015-03-14 8:17 PM  Is she fed seperately? could another horse be getting her hay or grain? its not hard to lose alot in winter if she didnt get alot of  hay and grain .. cold weather..just throwing that out there..

Bibliafarm - 2015-03-15 9:36 PM maybe she cant eat the oats?  are they feeding her sr grain