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Elite Veteran
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| I guess I never knew that some people don't approve of nurse mares until we had to get one for a foal whose momma passed away during foaling. I don't mean the ones whose foals die during birth, I mean the career nurse mares who are bred, then their foals are sent to be bottle fed (NOT talking about the ones whose foals are killed). So I'm wondering if its a discipline thing or if it just depends on how you were taught on how you feel about them? I'm not out for an argument, just curious on who feels what, since I have never had a problem with them, and it was only just brought to my attention that someone didn't like them today at the clinic. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
      
| So they are bred each year and foal always taken away to be bottle fed so mare is available to lease out when the need is there? I don't think I like that very much even though I see the purpose in it. Seems cruel to have a mare give birth only to lose her foal each time. If one baby can be bottle raised why not the orphan?
Edited by rodeomom3 2015-03-24 7:08 PM
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
              Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Sounds pretty cruel to breed a mare so that her baby can be taking away from her so she can be leased out to make mony for someone. Sad, poor mare and baby  |
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 Tried and True
Posts: 21185
         Location: Where I am happiest | rodeomom3 - 2015-03-24 7:04 PM So they are bred each year and foal always taken away to be bottle fed so mare is available to lease out when the need is there? I don't think I like that very much.
Yes. Except there is very limited rescue resources for those foals so the ones who do get to go to be bottle fed, are the fortunate orphans. If there is such a thing as a fortunate orphan. It is a very sad sad situation and one that breaks my heart. |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
           Location: Florida.. | ThreeCorners - 2015-03-24 8:09 PM rodeomom3 - 2015-03-24 7:04 PM So they are bred each year and foal always taken away to be bottle fed so mare is available to lease out when the need is there? I don't think I like that very much. Yes. Except there is very limited rescue resources for those foals so the ones who do get to go to be bottle fed, are the fortunate orphans. If there is such a thing as a fortunate orphan. It is a very sad sad situation and one that breaks my heart.
so basically the mare is bred.... has a foal then its taken away so they can lease out the mare to a orphan for big bucks..and her real foal is bottle fed and may or may not make it . and this happens as a career for the mare so owners can make $$$$$$.. this pretty wrong if you ask me.. the orphans can be bottle fed.. but then again the mares owners dont make $$ so why would that be a good idea right..smh |
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 Tried and True
Posts: 21185
         Location: Where I am happiest | Bibliafarm - 2015-03-24 7:21 PM ThreeCorners - 2015-03-24 8:09 PM rodeomom3 - 2015-03-24 7:04 PM So they are bred each year and foal always taken away to be bottle fed so mare is available to lease out when the need is there? I don't think I like that very much. Yes. Except there is very limited rescue resources for those foals so the ones who do get to go to be bottle fed, are the fortunate orphans. If there is such a thing as a fortunate orphan. It is a very sad sad situation and one that breaks my heart. so basically the mare is bred.... has a foal then its taken away so they can lease out the mare to a orphan for big bucks..and her real foal is bottle fed and may or may not make it . and this happens as a career for the mare so owners can make $$$$$$.. this pretty wrong if you ask me.. the orphans can be bottle fed.. but then again the mares owners dont make $$ so why would that be a good idea right..smh
Exactly! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/borntodie/nurse-mare-foals-born-to-die |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
           Location: Florida.. | it reminds me of the foals born to the mares for birth control. tossed aside.. auctioned off.. etc.. pathetic imho |
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  Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
        Location: ND | even if I lost my mare and ended up with an orphan foal there is no way I'd be ok with supporting throwing away another foal so my baby could have a mom. I'd bottle feed my own colt if I couldn't find a mare who lost her foal. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
 
| The nurse mares are bred to anything to impregnate them. I'm friends with a rescue specifically for nurse mare foals and the ones they get in are weird crosses. I'm absolutely NOT ok with it. The premarin mares are similar. They keep the mares pregnant and collect the urine all day. As soon as the foals are born they are killed, mare rebred. Premarin is the drug they use to help soothe menopause symptoms. |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
   Location: Oklahoma | Wow, this breaks my heart. |
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 Location: Choctaw, OK | I have a 2 month old colt who is from a nurse mare. We are raising him on bucket milk and milk pellets. I think its terribly sad. This foal still wants a mama. He is nice cow bred grulla baby and did get to stay on his mom for two weeks so his situation was better than most.
Edited by RoughstockKennel 2015-03-24 10:04 PM
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
      Location: In my own world | I read an article where a lot of TB goals are raised by nurse mares. Because they are worth so much when they are born and the mare needs to be rebred which requires travel because they won't AI it's too risky to send the foal with the mare. So it is raised by a nurse mare while the mare is shipped for rebreeding |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
     Location: In The Land of Cotton | I was not aware of this until I saw it on FB a couple of years ago. The mares that are used for "medicine" are kept in standing stalls only. Tied in with bags on them to collect the urine. Sad situation. There are quite a few of these "farms". They take the babies and either kill them, or now rescues have been forming and they get in trailer loads of orphans each week.
I wonder if this is also where colostrum comes from that you can purchase?
I have no answers but think it should be stopped. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
      
| livinonlove&horses - 2015-03-25 7:40 AM I read an article where a lot of TB goals are raised by nurse mares. Because they are worth so much when they are born and the mare needs to be rebred which requires travel because they won't AI it's too risky to send the foal with the mare. So it is raised by a nurse mare while the mare is shipped for rebreeding
Yet another reason to not like horse racing- too many disposable horses to try and get that great one. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1182
     Location: Do I hear Banjos? | I could never participate in this practice either as a foal owner needing a nurse mare just to allow me to re-breed the mare nor a nurse mare owner running that kind of business. It just would break my heart to know that just because I'm willing to pay...just because my foal is somehow considered more valuable...the other foal is left an orphan or killed. I'd feel just sick knowing that.
Now...when a mare dies and you can somehow connect your foal with a mare that had unfortunately lost her foal...that's a win win. This is something far darker and so very sad. And I didn't know it was a business model for some folks.
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 I Prefer a Beard
Posts: 1944
      
| Didn't know this existed makes me very sad
Edited by caspersabelpip 2015-03-25 8:12 AM
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Blessed 
                      Location: Here | I too was not educated on career nurse mares. I thought it was always mares that had lost their foals. I understand the purpose in a deceased foal and you have a mare with milk, but the TB deal makes me sad. It all makes me sad.... Foals are so fragile.... |
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Who Wants to Trade?
Posts: 4692
      
| Lots use hormones now. You can usually get a dry mare wet in 3-10 days at a cost of about $800. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
  
| We have facilities here that breed registered foals, but they bottle feed all of them and send the mares off to be nurse mares. I know those are few and far between, but some owners don't have the facilities to bottle feed a foal every 3 hours, while some do. Its a service that people need, and use. Glad I could enlighten some of you of this side of breeding. |
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
      Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | Bibliafarm - 2015-03-25 6:28 PM it reminds me of the foals born to the mares for birth control. tossed aside.. auctioned off.. etc.. pathetic imho
most pmu barns turned the mares out just before they would foal and they wouldnt be brought back in til fall after the babies were weaned......and i have bought a couple foals from pmu sales...i still have both of them........
and from what i have read i think this nurse mare thing is a money grab...you can bottle feed one just as easy as the other...
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 Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
     Location: N Texas | Y'all know that's what they do on dairies right? Cows are bred solely to produce milk and calves are immediately taken away, and a lot of times "disposed of" or sold for $5 at auction. So it's ok to do it to cows but not horses? |
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Blessed 
                      Location: Here | Gunner11 - 2015-03-25 9:16 AM Y'all know that's what they do on dairies right? Cows are bred solely to produce milk and calves are immediately taken away, and a lot of times "disposed of" or sold for $5 at auction. So it's ok to do it to cows but not horses?
Most Dairies sell them and they make great 4h project, ie bucket calves, and then they become meat.... |
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Blessed 
                      Location: Here | FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-03-25 8:54 AM We have facilities here that breed registered foals, but they bottle feed all of them and send the mares off to be nurse mares. I know those are few and far between, but some owners don't have the facilities to bottle feed a foal every 3 hours, while some do. Its a service that people need, and use. Glad I could enlighten some of you of this side of breeding.
Thank you for this info |
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
          Location: Washington | livinonlove&horses - 2015-03-25 5:40 AM I read an article where a lot of TB goals are raised by nurse mares. Because they are worth so much when they are born and the mare needs to be rebred which requires travel because they won't AI it's too risky to send the foal with the mare. So it is raised by a nurse mare while the mare is shipped for rebreeding
Please direct me to this article. I assure you I have never seen this practice. |
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  Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
        Location: ND | Gunner11 - 2015-03-25 8:16 AM Y'all know that's what they do on dairies right? Cows are bred solely to produce milk and calves are immediately taken away, and a lot of times "disposed of" or sold for $5 at auction. So it's ok to do it to cows but not horses?
My neighbors run a fairly large dairy. The calves are not disposed of. They work hard to keep them all alive so they can keep the heifers in their herd & sell the steers when they are grown. |
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
      Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | SaraJean - 2015-03-26 10:06 AM
Gunner11 - 2015-03-25 8:16 AM Y'all know that's what they do on dairies right? Cows are bred solely to produce milk and calves are immediately taken away, and a lot of times "disposed of" or sold for $5 at auction. So it's ok to do it to cows but not horses?
My neighbors run a fairly large dairy. The calves are not disposed of. They work hard to keep them all alive so they can keep the heifers in their herd & sell the steers when they are grown.
We have a friend that has dairy and they definatly don't t dispose of the babies...
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
     Location: In The Land of Cotton | fatchance - 2015-03-25 11:54 AM livinonlove&horses - 2015-03-25 5:40 AM I read an article where a lot of TB goals are raised by nurse mares. Because they are worth so much when they are born and the mare needs to be rebred which requires travel because they won't AI it's too risky to send the foal with the mare. So it is raised by a nurse mare while the mare is shipped for rebreeding Please direct me to this article. I assure you I have never seen this practice.
Here is one article - I just googled and found several but this name I do recognize.
http://stacywestfallhorseblog.com/2014/03/16/what-are-nurse-mare-foals/ |
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
      Location: In my own world | fatchance - 2015-03-25 10:54 AM livinonlove&horses - 2015-03-25 5:40 AM I read an article where a lot of TB goals are raised by nurse mares. Because they are worth so much when they are born and the mare needs to be rebred which requires travel because they won't AI it's too risky to send the foal with the mare. So it is raised by a nurse mare while the mare is shipped for rebreeding Please direct me to this article. I assure you I have never seen this practice.
It was a while back. I'll have to see if I can find where I read it |
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 Wishing I were a Wildcat
    Location: 'Hawk Country | mruggles - 2015-03-25 11:10 AM SaraJean - 2015-03-26 10:06 AM Gunner11 - 2015-03-25 8:16 AM Y'all know that's what they do on dairies right? Cows are bred solely to produce milk and calves are immediately taken away, and a lot of times "disposed of" or sold for $5 at auction. So it's ok to do it to cows but not horses? My neighbors run a fairly large dairy. The calves are not disposed of. They work hard to keep them all alive so they can keep the heifers in their herd & sell the steers when they are grown. We have a friend that has dairy and they definatly don't t dispose of the babies... M
And, I'd sure like to go buy $5 calves, even if they are dairy breeds! Around here baby calves will sell for $500 to put on a cow that lost her calf. |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
     Location: In The Land of Cotton | ozcancrasher13 - 2015-03-25 12:21 PM mruggles - 2015-03-25 11:10 AM SaraJean - 2015-03-26 10:06 AM Gunner11 - 2015-03-25 8:16 AM Y'all know that's what they do on dairies right? Cows are bred solely to produce milk and calves are immediately taken away, and a lot of times "disposed of" or sold for $5 at auction. So it's ok to do it to cows but not horses? My neighbors run a fairly large dairy. The calves are not disposed of. They work hard to keep them all alive so they can keep the heifers in their herd & sell the steers when they are grown. We have a friend that has dairy and they definatly don't t dispose of the babies... M And, I'd sure like to go buy $5 calves, even if they are dairy breeds! Around here baby calves will sell for $500 to put on a cow that lost her calf.
They are well over $250 here for the dairy calves at the auction. |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
           Location: Florida.. | Gunner11 - 2015-03-25 10:16 AM Y'all know that's what they do on dairies right? Cows are bred solely to produce milk and calves are immediately taken away, and a lot of times "disposed of" or sold for $5 at auction. So it's ok to do it to cows but not horses? Its not even the same thing why they do it..?
Edited by Bibliafarm 2015-03-25 11:23 AM
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
      Location: In my own world | 3canstorun - 2015-03-25 11:15 AM
fatchance - 2015-03-25 11:54 AM livinonlove&horses - 2015-03-25 5:40 AM I read an article where a lot of TB goals are raised by nurse mares. Because they are worth so much when they are born and the mare needs to be rebred which requires travel because they won't AI it's too risky to send the foal with the mare. So it is raised by a nurse mare while the mare is shipped for rebreeding Please direct me to this article. I assure you I have never seen this practice.
Here is one article - I just googled and found several but this name I do recognize. http://stacywestfallhorseblog.com/2014/03/16/what-are-nurse-mare-foals/
Thank you. That is the article I read. I found it on the Saving Baby FB page |
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
 
| I think it comes down to whether or not horses are considered livestock. Some want to love and kiss and hug thier horses, some want to make money on them. |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
     Location: In The Land of Cotton | Whiteboy - 2015-03-25 12:29 PM I think it comes down to whether or not horses are considered livestock. Some want to love and kiss and hug thier horses, some want to make money on them.
True |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1119
 
| I don't really consider this the same as a dairy.
On a dairy, the calves are taken from the mothers when born, bottle fed and cared for. The males end up as beef cattle and the females go into the dairy herd.
With the nurse mares, you are sacrificing one foal for another and adding to the population of horses with no where to go. |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
           Location: Florida.. | Why do they not just bottle feed their orphan the question is... why rely on a mare that had a foal and it is taken away from her so owners can lease mare for $$ . to say the foals removed are bottle fed is a bit skeptical.. this is a business for owners to make $$ that clearly have other alternatives.. fact is people will be buying up mares and breeding and tossing away the foals to lease her out and make $$ and more and more .Another brilliant money hungry scheme to add to the unwanted horses..and or tossed away horses and foals..
Edited by Bibliafarm 2015-03-25 11:39 AM
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 Own It and Move On
      Location: The edge of no where | 3canstorun - 2015-03-25 11:32 AM Whiteboy - 2015-03-25 12:29 PM I think it comes down to whether or not horses are considered livestock. Some want to love and kiss and hug thier horses, some want to make money on them. True
Livestock deserves to be well treated. I've raised dairy calves, they weren't cheap to buy. There is a purpose for them. The heifers can be used for replacement cows, the little bulls were the ones that the dairies don't have a use for....but typically they bring a pretty decent price at auction. They're used by lots of ropers and then turned out and eventually they're hamburger. This doesn't mean that they are not well treated until they are hamburger, stress is tough on calves and nobody wants to lose money. They've got good food and shelter.
I have a major issue with the nurse mares. They're producing a product with no useful purpose, this can't possibly go well. |
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Red Hot Cardinal Fan
Posts: 4122
  
| Bibliafarm - 2015-03-25 11:37 AM Why do they not just bottle feed their orphan the question is... why rely on a mare that had a foal and it is taken away from her so owners can lease mare for $$ .
to say the foals removed are bottle fed is a bit skeptical.. this is a business for owners to make $$ that clearly have other alternatives.. fact is people will be buying up mares and breeding and tossing away the foals to lease her out and make $$ and more and more .Another brilliant money hungry scheme to add to the unwanted horses..and or tossed away horses and foals..
Because the first orphan foal is essentially worth a whole lot of money and they would prefer it to be raised on true milk and not bottlefed with replacement. This isn't a practice that common, everyday people use. (Example us obviously) But your larger farms with high dollared foals will most likely do this. I interned for a very well known QH race farm and this was a practice that they used. Although realistically it was very uncommon for them to need a nurse mare.
Not saying I agree with it, but just explaining what I know. |
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 Bulls Eye
Posts: 6443
       Location: Oklahoma | After spending 9 years working for some of the top TB breeding farms, the only reason a nurse mare was used was if the mare rejected the foal or the mare died. We prefered to keep the foals with their real moms. As far as sending the mares to the breeding sheds, the foals would stay at the farm. The mares were just vanned over to be bred and only gone for about an hour. It didn't hurt the foal to be alone for that time. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1210
   Location: Kansas | Gunner11 - 2015-03-25 8:16 AM Y'all know that's what they do on dairies right? Cows are bred solely to produce milk and calves are immediately taken away, and a lot of times "disposed of" or sold for $5 at auction. So it's ok to do it to cows but not horses?
Some dairies keep the babies to be added to the heard, some sell a few as 4-H projects, and a lot sell the calves to be slaughtered (veal). All of you are right so stop claiming that everyone else besides you is wrong. |
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
      Location: The best kept secret in TX | I had to do a paper in College on a controversial product. So I picked Premarin.
The mares stand in "stalls" for up to 23 hours a day connected to a catheter and most are locked in a head gate. They stand on concrete all day (some are lucky and get mats). The bars on these "stalls" are just wide enough for them to squeeze in to.
If one falls while standing in a stall they tie her up by the barrel and keep her on her feet until she dies. If she is lucky she gets to be taken outside and hosed off during her one hour "break" from collection. Most don't get hosed off.
Some farms bottle the colostrum and sell it instead of give it to the foal. Most foals die waiting to be rescued. Others are shipped for meat.
Sad situation for all involved...
Here is a link: http://www.equinevoices.org/horses/issues/premarin/
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
      
| Whiteboy - 2015-03-25 11:29 AM I think it comes down to whether or not horses are considered livestock. Some want to love and kiss and hug thier horses, some want to make money on them.
I disagree with this, whether they are considered livestock are not, headed to slaughter or headed to be a pet, the end does not justify the means and cruelty never has to be a part of the equation. To sacrifice one foal to make a profit is just heartless. Bottle feed the orphan instead of creating another one to make a buck. Whether an animal is bred for slaughter or to be a back yard pet, they both can be treated humanely. I don't consider this practice a necessity at all. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
              Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | This is most saddest heartbreaking thread I have ever read. Shameful |
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
          Location: Washington | livinonlove&horses - 2015-03-25 9:26 AM 3canstorun - 2015-03-25 11:15 AM fatchance - 2015-03-25 11:54 AM livinonlove&horses - 2015-03-25 5:40 AM I read an article where a lot of TB goals are raised by nurse mares. Because they are worth so much when they are born and the mare needs to be rebred which requires travel because they won't AI it's too risky to send the foal with the mare. So it is raised by a nurse mare while the mare is shipped for rebreeding Please direct me to this article. I assure you I have never seen this practice. Here is one article - I just googled and found several but this name I do recognize.
http://stacywestfallhorseblog.com/2014/03/16/what-are-nurse-mare-foals/
Thank you. That is the article I read. I found it on the Saving Baby FB page
Consider the source, seriously I was in this industry for years, and most mares are shipped to where the stallion is standing that they want to be bred to BEFORE the mare foals, they foal her out. I can argue many points on this crap article but I know it would change no ones minds here. SO I won't waste anyones time. |
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 Expert
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   Location: Kansas | fatchance - 2015-03-25 12:40 PM livinonlove&horses - 2015-03-25 9:26 AM 3canstorun - 2015-03-25 11:15 AM fatchance - 2015-03-25 11:54 AM livinonlove&horses - 2015-03-25 5:40 AM I read an article where a lot of TB goals are raised by nurse mares. Because they are worth so much when they are born and the mare needs to be rebred which requires travel because they won't AI it's too risky to send the foal with the mare. So it is raised by a nurse mare while the mare is shipped for rebreeding Please direct me to this article. I assure you I have never seen this practice. Here is one article - I just googled and found several but this name I do recognize.
http://stacywestfallhorseblog.com/2014/03/16/what-are-nurse-mare-foals/
Thank you. That is the article I read. I found it on the Saving Baby FB page Consider the source, seriously I was in this industry for years, and most mares are shipped to where the stallion is standing that they want to be bred to BEFORE the mare foals, they foal her out. I can argue many points on this crap article but I know it would change no ones minds here. SO I won't waste anyones time.
Not arguing- I understand that you've had a good experience while working in the industry with how mares and foals were dealt Fatchance, but there's always another side of things. I'm not saying that this is a widespread occurance, but I do know of a few people who have rescued and bottle fed nurse mare foals, so it does happen (to what extent, I'm not sure). |
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
      Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | IRunOnFaith - 2015-03-26 12:22 PM I had to do a paper in College on a controversial product. So I picked Premarin.
The mares stand in "stalls" for up to 23 hours a day connected to a catheter and most are locked in a head gate. They stand on concrete all day (some are lucky and get mats ). The bars on these "stalls" are just wide enough for them to squeeze in to.
If one falls while standing in a stall they tie her up by the barrel and keep her on her feet until she dies. If she is lucky she gets to be taken outside and hosed off during her one hour "break" from collection. Most don't get hosed off.
Some farms bottle the colostrum and sell it instead of give it to the foal. Most foals die waiting to be rescued. Others are shipped for meat.
Sad situation for all involved...
Here is a link: http://www.equinevoices.org/horses/issues/premarin/
a lot of this is BS................. especially the catheter part....and head gate i call bs on that to.....probably came from a peta or shark site
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
      Location: In my own world | fatchance - 2015-03-25 1:40 PM livinonlove&horses - 2015-03-25 9:26 AM 3canstorun - 2015-03-25 11:15 AM fatchance - 2015-03-25 11:54 AM livinonlove&horses - 2015-03-25 5:40 AM I read an article where a lot of TB goals are raised by nurse mares. Because they are worth so much when they are born and the mare needs to be rebred which requires travel because they won't AI it's too risky to send the foal with the mare. So it is raised by a nurse mare while the mare is shipped for rebreeding Please direct me to this article. I assure you I have never seen this practice. Here is one article - I just googled and found several but this name I do recognize.
http://stacywestfallhorseblog.com/2014/03/16/what-are-nurse-mare-foals/
Thank you. That is the article I read. I found it on the Saving Baby FB page Consider the source, seriously I was in this industry for years, and most mares are shipped to where the stallion is standing that they want to be bred to BEFORE the mare foals, they foal her out. I can argue many points on this crap article but I know it would change no ones minds here. SO I won't waste anyones time.
Decifering what is legit info on the net compared to personal experience is hard. I'm not saying this is true. It's just what I read. It's not like the TB racing world is squeaky clean in its practices and this would be the only dirty secret. But if not then why does Last Chance Corral have so many orphan foals? What are they being produced for?
Edited to add. If I considered myself and even my friends to be the source and gospel on how horses are treated then it would be safe to say all horses are treated like big furry children and never starve or get mistreated. But what happens on my farm or the farms of people I know is not the reality of all horses. You only have to cruise Craig's list to see that.
Edited by livinonlove&horses 2015-03-25 2:28 PM
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
          Location: Washington | livinonlove&horses - 2015-03-25 12:22 PM fatchance - 2015-03-25 1:40 PM livinonlove&horses - 2015-03-25 9:26 AM 3canstorun - 2015-03-25 11:15 AM fatchance - 2015-03-25 11:54 AM livinonlove&horses - 2015-03-25 5:40 AM I read an article where a lot of TB goals are raised by nurse mares. Because they are worth so much when they are born and the mare needs to be rebred which requires travel because they won't AI it's too risky to send the foal with the mare. So it is raised by a nurse mare while the mare is shipped for rebreeding Please direct me to this article. I assure you I have never seen this practice. Here is one article - I just googled and found several but this name I do recognize.
http://stacywestfallhorseblog.com/2014/03/16/what-are-nurse-mare-foals/
Thank you. That is the article I read. I found it on the Saving Baby FB page Consider the source, seriously I was in this industry for years, and most mares are shipped to where the stallion is standing that they want to be bred to BEFORE the mare foals, they foal her out. I can argue many points on this crap article but I know it would change no ones minds here. SO I won't waste anyones time. Decifering what is legit info on the net compared to personal experience is hard. I'm not saying this is true. It's just what I read. It's not like the TB racing world is squeaky clean in its practices and this would be the only dirty secret. But if not then why does Last Chance Corral have so many orphan foals? What are they being produced for? Edited to add. If I considered myself and even my friends to be the source and gospel on how horses are treated then it would be safe to say all horses are treated like big furry children and never starve or get mistreated. But what happens on my farm or the farms of people I know is not the reality of all horses. You only have to cruise Craig's list to see that.
There is bad everywhere. But some have made it their battle cry and their bleeding hearts could cause more damage than you can see coming. Like I have said a million times, God help us all the day they win and our equines will be labled pets.
I am thrilled I have NEVER witnessed what I call abuse of nurse mares and or their foals. Sure not going to flush down the masses who use them as intended because a few suck. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
      
| fatchance - 2015-03-25 2:49 PM livinonlove&horses - 2015-03-25 12:22 PM fatchance - 2015-03-25 1:40 PM livinonlove&horses - 2015-03-25 9:26 AM 3canstorun - 2015-03-25 11:15 AM fatchance - 2015-03-25 11:54 AM livinonlove&horses - 2015-03-25 5:40 AM I read an article where a lot of TB goals are raised by nurse mares. Because they are worth so much when they are born and the mare needs to be rebred which requires travel because they won't AI it's too risky to send the foal with the mare. So it is raised by a nurse mare while the mare is shipped for rebreeding Please direct me to this article. I assure you I have never seen this practice. Here is one article - I just googled and found several but this name I do recognize.
http://stacywestfallhorseblog.com/2014/03/16/what-are-nurse-mare-foals/
Thank you. That is the article I read. I found it on the Saving Baby FB page Consider the source, seriously I was in this industry for years, and most mares are shipped to where the stallion is standing that they want to be bred to BEFORE the mare foals, they foal her out. I can argue many points on this crap article but I know it would change no ones minds here. SO I won't waste anyones time. Decifering what is legit info on the net compared to personal experience is hard. I'm not saying this is true. It's just what I read. It's not like the TB racing world is squeaky clean in its practices and this would be the only dirty secret. But if not then why does Last Chance Corral have so many orphan foals? What are they being produced for? Edited to add. If I considered myself and even my friends to be the source and gospel on how horses are treated then it would be safe to say all horses are treated like big furry children and never starve or get mistreated. But what happens on my farm or the farms of people I know is not the reality of all horses. You only have to cruise Craig's list to see that. There is bad everywhere. But some have made it their battle cry and their bleeding hearts could cause more damage than you can see coming. Like I have said a million times, God help us all the day they win and our equines will be labled pets.
I am thrilled I have NEVER witnessed what I call abuse of nurse mares and or their foals. Sure not going to flush down the masses who use them as intended because a few suck.
Just the fact that the mares are bred each year to have their foals taken away is abuse. How many threads do we read about over population of horses, blaming backyard breeders when a whole industry is contributing significantly to this problem- all to make a quicker buck. Label a horse livestock or a pet, it does not matter, but quit over breeding and thinking of them as disposable- the end does not always justify the means.
Edited by rodeomom3 2015-03-25 3:23 PM
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
          Location: Washington | I knew not to touch this thread and yet I did.   |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
    Location: Midwest |
I agree with you FC. I, too, have heard that this practice is extremely uncommon, to the point of being an "almost never" deal.
do I agree with this idea? No, I think it is unethical. However, I think that this practice is not one often done anymore, especially since research has shown a foal is more likely to thrive in the care of the mare that carried it to term. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
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| barrelracr131 - 2015-03-25 3:25 PM I agree with you FC. I, too, have heard that this practice is extremely uncommon, to the point of being an "almost never" deal.
do I agree with this idea? No, I think it is unethical. However, I think that this practice is not one often done anymore, especially since research has shown a foal is more likely to thrive in the care of the mare that carried it to term.
Here is a 2013 article from a manager of a nurse mare farm- he keeps 100 mares bred each year- that adds up to a lot of babies over the years. It seems to happen more than we think and I agree, it is unethical.NURSE MARES: FOUR-LEGGED MARY POPPINS TO THE RESCUE  Rachel Alexandra's Bernardini filly with nurse mare, Ojos When veterinarians discovered a bacterial infection following exploratory abdominal surgery on champion race mare Rachel Alexandra, her 2013 Bernardini filly was immediately transferred to a nurse mare. Although they aren’t well-publicized players in the breeding industry, nurse mares are much-appreciated surrogates in a variety of situations. Most commonly they are brought in by Thoroughbred breeders when a foal is born to a mare who dies or experiences major health issues that render her unable to care for a foal. The latter was the case with Rachel Alexandra, who returned home to Stonestreet Farm Tuesday after several weeks at Rood & Riddle Equine Hospital. Nurse mares may also be called in if a broodmare rejects her foal or if she has difficulty producing milk. WinStar Farm general manager Chris Baker said that for mares in the latter category, managers employ hormonal therapies such as domperidone or oxytocin (both of which are used in women ) to encourage milk production or letdown in mares before bringing a surrogate into the mix. “Nobody takes the decision of putting a foal on a nurse mare lightly,” he said. “A foal is best raised by its own mother. You’re going to make efforts to get the mare to produce milk if that’s the issue.” A nurse mare may be requested if a broodmare is shipping out of the country to be bred and the foal is too small to make the journey, although such cases are relatively rare. Nurse mares are not brought in for the one to three hours in which a broodmare is sent away from the farm to be bred back, Baker said. “There’s a bonding process that has to take place that’s not something you can do temporarily,” he said. “You’re not going to try to do it temporarily; it’s kind of like flipping a switch. When you go with that, you stay with it for the safety of the mare and foal.” Some larger farms keep their own band of nurse mares, while others lease nurse mares as needed. Bill Roseberry, who manages Roseberry’s Nurse Mares in Central Kentucky, said he gets calls throughout the foaling season, although this year seems especially busy. He’s already sent 26 mares out to help struggling foals and has received an additional 60 or 70 calls requesting his mares. Roseberry keeps close to 100 mares on his farm, many of whom are Quarter Horses and Tennessee Walkers. While there is concern about mistreatment to nurse mares or their foals, Baker and Roseberry said that nurse mare facilities operate like any other aspect of the equine world—some may mistreat their horses, but “the majority” strive to find nurse mare foals good homes. “I would like to get people to understand that we have been doing this for over 30 years, and we have yet to kill a foal for any reason unless it had some sort of physical problem that can’t be fixed,” Roseberry said. “If I had to ‘dispose’ of foals like that, I’d be out of the business. I feel very strongly about that.” “Responsible nurse mare owners love those foals like their own,” echoed Baker, who said in his experience, mistreatment of nurse mare foals is not the norm. “There are people who are feeding their horses before they’re feeding themselves.”  Nurse mare, Blondie, with foal while leased out on assignment When a nurse mare is sent out to care for a new foal, the introduction process is slow and steady. She is often outfitted with restraints such as a blindfold and/or hobbles to allow her to move and gradually acclimate to the new baby while preventing her from kicking or biting the foal in surprise if the meeting doesn’t go well. Managers may also employ a mild tranquilizer or Vicks VapoRub to keep the mare calm and reduce the number of overwhelming scents that might put her on edge. The acclimation takes between 12 and 24 hours and is carefully monitored by farm personnel who gradually remove the blindfold or hobbles. After the bonding period is over, nurse mare and baby are considered a pair and remain together until the foal would normally be weaned. Once a foal is attached to a nurse mare, it will not be reunited with its dam, since it likely would not recognize her. Baker and Roseberry said that experienced nurse mares handle the transition well and need minimal management, and young foals don’t act stressed or depressed by the change. Older foals who have developed recognition of their dams are slower to transition, Baker said, but usually settle in with some extra attention when they get hungry. As adults, WinStar’s Baker said he doesn’t often see any lasting effects of a horse’s upbringing by a nurse mare as opposed to its biological parent. In cases where a foal was bottle-raised for a period of time before transitioning to a surrogate, however, he said adults tend to be more people-oriented than average. Nurse mares are often bred back to teaser stallions on the breeding farm during their lease, and Roseberry said he prefers they be sent to stallions “with some color” to make the nurse mare foal more marketable as a riding horse. Although milk production can be enhanced by hormones, a mare must have a foal each year to continue lactation. Roseberry said that on his farm, which has been in operation 32 years, his family raises nurse mare foals until they are old enough for sale. Roseberry said he ensures nurse mare foals receive the antibody and nutrient-rich colostrum from their dams in the first hours after birth, and he does not separate them until he is sure the foal’s immune system is off to a good start. Foals are allowed to nurse until the mare is needed, at which point the process is similar to the weaning that all horses go through. Nurse mare foals are raised together and appear content to drink from a bottle or bucket. “Everybody has their own opinion, but I would say that they do not know any different,” Roseberry said. “They’re well taken care of, and it’s very seldom we have any problem getting them to eat and drink.” Because nurse mare foals are bottle-raised, they tend to be very gentle and people-oriented, making them easy to market as riding horses or 4-H projects. Roseberry said he sells many for this purpose, keeps a few to add to his band of mares, and works with a farm in Ohio to successfully place those that don’t find homes right away. |
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 Tried and True
Posts: 21185
         Location: Where I am happiest | Considering the fact they can now bring just about any mare into lactation then this seems like a no brainer to use hormone therapy rather then breeding the mares, waiting a year and putting both mare and the foal through all that. The foals are innocent in all of this and it's so needless. |
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     Location: Texas | barrelracr131 - 2015-03-25 3:25 PM I agree with you FC. I, too, have heard that this practice is extremely uncommon, to the point of being an "almost never" deal.
do I agree with this idea? No, I think it is unethical. However, I think that this practice is not one often done anymore, especially since research has shown a foal is more likely to thrive in the care of the mare that carried it to term.
Exactly, I agree with BR131... I knew not to even read the OP. So, now I have to use this as an opportunity to bit my tongue and keep my thoughts, opinions and sarcasm to myself. |
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  Rebel Without a Cause
Posts: 2758
      Location: Adopt a homeless pet - www.petfinder.com! | Last Chance Corral is an organization that saves nurse mare foals and adopts them out. Pretty heartbreaking for these babies: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Last-Chance-Corral/45502380989?fref=t...
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
              Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Calangelo - 2015-03-25 5:57 PM Last Chance Corral is an organization that saves nurse mare foals and adopts them out. Pretty heartbreaking for these babies: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Last-Chance-Corral/45502380989?fref=t...
Oh why did I open this those poor poor babys that dont have their mom's. At least they are being taken care of, but this is so heartbreaking and not right to keep bringing these babys into the world.. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
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| Southtxponygirl - 2015-03-25 6:03 PM Calangelo - 2015-03-25 5:57 PM Last Chance Corral is an organization that saves nurse mare foals and adopts them out. Pretty heartbreaking for these babies: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Last-Chance-Corral/45502380989?fref=t... Oh why did I open this those poor poor babys that dont have their mom's. At least they are being taken care of, but this is so heartbreaking and not right to keep bringing these babys into the world..
I bet this is the organization that the manager referred to in the above article. He said he "tries to find homes for the foals and works with a group that takes the ones he cannot sell". Both are in Ohio, looks like alot are left without homes, either way the nurse mare farm is making $$, leasing the momas and selling the babies. You know, you create this situation but are not willing to take care of these babies, too much time and manpower, does not sound too caring to me and "I do everything I can for those babies, I treat them like my own". I call BS. |
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  Rebel Without a Cause
Posts: 2758
      Location: Adopt a homeless pet - www.petfinder.com! | rodeomom3 - 2015-03-25 6:13 PM
Southtxponygirl - 2015-03-25 6:03 PM Calangelo - 2015-03-25 5:57 PM Last Chance Corral is an organization that saves nurse mare foals and adopts them out. Pretty heartbreaking for these babies: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Last-Chance-Corral/45502380989?fref=t... Oh why did I open this those poor poor babys that dont have their mom's. At least they are being taken care of, but this is so heartbreaking and not right to keep bringing these babys into the world..
I bet this is the organization that the manager referred to in the above article. He said he "tries to find homes for the foals and works with a group that takes the ones he cannot sell". Both are in Ohio, looks like alot are left without homes, either way the nurse mare farm is making $$, leasing the momas and selling the babies. You know, you create this situation but are not willing to take care of these babies, too much time and manpower, does not sound too caring to me and "I do everything I can for those babies, I treat them like my own". I call BS.
My understanding is that the organization has to buy the foals from him. |
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  Rebel Without a Cause
Posts: 2758
      Location: Adopt a homeless pet - www.petfinder.com! | EqualRanch - 2015-03-25 5:11 PM
barrelracr131 - 2015-03-25 3:25 PM I agree with you FC. I, too, have heard that this practice is extremely uncommon, to the point of being an "almost never" deal.
do I agree with this idea? No, I think it is unethical. However, I think that this practice is not one often done anymore, especially since research has shown a foal is more likely to thrive in the care of the mare that carried it to term.
Exactly, I agree with BR131... I knew not to even read the OP. So, now I have to use this as an opportunity to bit my tongue and keep my thoughts, opinions and sarcasm to myself.
I don't understand why people are feeling they need to bite their toungue and feel like they need to not be sarcastic. Even if this is not widespread, it is still happening and it's wrong. That's my opinion anyway. |
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  Warmblood with Wings
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           Location: Florida.. | countrygirl2006 - 2015-03-25 1:00 PM Bibliafarm - 2015-03-25 11:37 AM Why do they not just bottle feed their orphan the question is... why rely on a mare that had a foal and it is taken away from her so owners can lease mare for $$ .
to say the foals removed are bottle fed is a bit skeptical.. this is a business for owners to make $$ that clearly have other alternatives.. fact is people will be buying up mares and breeding and tossing away the foals to lease her out and make $$ and more and more .Another brilliant money hungry scheme to add to the unwanted horses..and or tossed away horses and foals.. Because the first orphan foal is essentially worth a whole lot of money and they would prefer it to be raised on true milk and not bottlefed with replacement. This isn't a practice that common, everyday people use. (Example us obviously) But your larger farms with high dollared foals will most likely do this. I interned for a very well known QH race farm and this was a practice that they used. Although realistically it was very uncommon for them to need a nurse mare.
Not saying I agree with it, but just explaining what I know.
The foals where I train at are high dollar foals and we always found a mare that lost thier foal or bottle fed ..never once thought to use a assembly line mare.. with that said..I realize its not all like that but it could get to that point.. a quick buck..I think its sad . |
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     Location: Texas | Calangelo - 2015-03-25 6:20 PM EqualRanch - 2015-03-25 5:11 PM barrelracr131 - 2015-03-25 3:25 PM I agree with you FC. I, too, have heard that this practice is extremely uncommon, to the point of being an "almost never" deal.
do I agree with this idea? No, I think it is unethical. However, I think that this practice is not one often done anymore, especially since research has shown a foal is more likely to thrive in the care of the mare that carried it to term. Exactly, I agree with BR131... I knew not to even read the OP.
So, now I have to use this as an opportunity to bit my tongue and keep my thoughts, opinions and sarcasm to myself. I don't understand why people are feeling they need to bite their toungue and feel like they need to not be sarcastic. Even if this is not widespread, it is still happening and it's wrong. That's my opinion anyway.
We do agree it is wrong, as stated in the above post. But, we can't stop it or change it. There are many more forms of animal cruelty, also more frequent, that we can stop or enforce penalties on. Hell, people starve animals to death and only get a slap on the hand. |
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    Location: delaWHERE? | I work at a fairly well known vet hospital here on the East Coast and we have a client that runs a nurse mare facility. What she does is turns 30 to 40 mares pretty well bonded mares with foals at their sides and the babies all nurse from each other's moms. It's strange to see for the first time, but when the nurse mares are needed, the babies just continue on nursing from other moms.
What I will say is that they are impeccably cared for. She does a great job and I understand her to be the outlier, but they are out there. |
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| iloveequine40 - 2015-03-24 8:23 PM
The nurse mares are bred to anything to impregnate them. I'm friends with a rescue specifically for nurse mare foals and the ones they get in are weird crosses. I'm absolutely NOT ok with it. The premarin mares are similar. They keep the mares pregnant and collect the urine all day. As soon as the foals are born they are killed, mare rebred. Premarin is the drug they use to help soothe menopause symptoms.
That. is. Horrible. :( |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
              Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Scoot - 2015-03-26 8:15 AM I work at a fairly well known vet hospital here on the East Coast and we have a client that runs a nurse mare facility. What she does is turns 30 to 40 mares pretty well bonded mares with foals at their sides and the babies all nurse from each other's moms. It's strange to see for the first time, but when the nurse mares are needed, the babies just continue on nursing from other moms. What I will say is that they are impeccably cared for. She does a great job and I understand her to be the outlier, but they are out there.
What does she do with all the babys ? |
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 Northern Exposure
Posts: 3919
       Location: Wasagaming, Manitoba, Canada | I have tried to stay off this thread but now I can't
You guys posting about PMU mares need to get educated on it and quit posting crap. I can almost gurantee none of you have ever set foot in a facility. The industry is extremely regulated I live in an area around many of them http://www.naeric.org/about.asp?strNav=0&strBtn=5... and ALL of my horses have been BOUGHT from pmu operations.
The horse in my avatar is a 1D horse that was a PMU foal. I've been in the facilities and none of this crap you are posting happens in any of them.
The nurse mare thing is a totally different deal. |
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 Good Grief!
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      Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | BBKitamanCutter - 2015-03-27 9:25 AM I have tried to stay off this thread but now I can't
You guys posting about PMU mares need to get educated on it and quit posting crap. I can almost gurantee none of you have ever set foot in a facility. The industry is extremely regulated I live in an area around many of them http://www.naeric.org/about.asp?strNav=0&strBtn=5... and ALL of my horses have been BOUGHT from pmu operations.
The horse in my avatar is a 1D horse that was a PMU foal. I've been in the facilities and none of this crap you are posting happens in any of them.
The nurse mare thing is a totally different deal. Thank you....i actually cursed outloud..lol... when i read that garbage about the pmu barn....................
m
Edited by mruggles 2015-03-26 10:37 AM
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Hungarian Midget Woman
    Location: Midwest | EqualRanch - 2015-03-26 12:22 AM Calangelo - 2015-03-25 6:20 PM EqualRanch - 2015-03-25 5:11 PM barrelracr131 - 2015-03-25 3:25 PM I agree with you FC. I, too, have heard that this practice is extremely uncommon, to the point of being an "almost never" deal.
do I agree with this idea? No, I think it is unethical. However, I think that this practice is not one often done anymore, especially since research has shown a foal is more likely to thrive in the care of the mare that carried it to term. Exactly, I agree with BR131... I knew not to even read the OP.
So, now I have to use this as an opportunity to bit my tongue and keep my thoughts, opinions and sarcasm to myself. I don't understand why people are feeling they need to bite their toungue and feel like they need to not be sarcastic. Even if this is not widespread, it is still happening and it's wrong. That's my opinion anyway. We do agree it is wrong, as stated in the above post. But, we can't stop it or change it. There are many more forms of animal cruelty, also more frequent, that we can stop or enforce penalties on. Hell, people starve animals to death and only get a slap on the hand.
I guarantee there are more starving horses out there than nurse mare foals being being born every year.
I honestly don't understand why these farms still exist, since it is cheaper and easier to bring a mare into lactation than it is to breed and feed a nurse mare year round...
I don't think anyone is arguing for the merit of this practice, just trying to clarify the details. |
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  Rebel Without a Cause
Posts: 2758
      Location: Adopt a homeless pet - www.petfinder.com! | barrelracr131 - 2015-03-26 10:38 AM EqualRanch - 2015-03-26 12:22 AM Calangelo - 2015-03-25 6:20 PM EqualRanch - 2015-03-25 5:11 PM barrelracr131 - 2015-03-25 3:25 PM I agree with you FC. I, too, have heard that this practice is extremely uncommon, to the point of being an "almost never" deal.
do I agree with this idea? No, I think it is unethical. However, I think that this practice is not one often done anymore, especially since research has shown a foal is more likely to thrive in the care of the mare that carried it to term. Exactly, I agree with BR131... I knew not to even read the OP.
So, now I have to use this as an opportunity to bit my tongue and keep my thoughts, opinions and sarcasm to myself. I don't understand why people are feeling they need to bite their toungue and feel like they need to not be sarcastic. Even if this is not widespread, it is still happening and it's wrong. That's my opinion anyway. We do agree it is wrong, as stated in the above post. But, we can't stop it or change it. There are many more forms of animal cruelty, also more frequent, that we can stop or enforce penalties on. Hell, people starve animals to death and only get a slap on the hand. I guarantee there are more starving horses out there than nurse mare foals being being born every year.
I honestly don't understand why these farms still exist, since it is cheaper and easier to bring a mare into lactation than it is to breed and feed a nurse mare year round...
I don't think anyone is arguing for the merit of this practice, just trying to clarify the details. It still doesn't make either situation acceptable. There needs to be higher penalties for animal cruelty, but that doesn't happen without people advocating for it.
Edited by Calangelo 2015-03-26 11:23 AM
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Hungarian Midget Woman
    Location: Midwest | No one ever said it was an acceptable practice... in fact, I said the OPPOSITE. 
Having accurate information, however, is always worthwhile. |
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
          Location: Washington | barrelracr131 - 2015-03-26 9:42 AM
No one ever said it was an acceptable practice... in fact, I said the OPPOSITE. Having accurate information, however, is always worthwhile.
No kidding.....if you have nurse mares your GUILTY! Not everyone is unethical. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 669
    Location: Central Texas | All I can say is I wished I hadn't opened this thread. It makes me so very sad. |
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Veteran
Posts: 113

| Yeah, because if it's on the internet it MUST be true right? Let's just keep getting stupider and stupider :-/ Dispose of dairy calves???? Let PMU foals and mares just die??? Sounds like great business practice....Common sense people, do you think that the majority of these businesses would let a profit "die"??? Get real....Get your information from reliable sources, don't google and believe every article you read.  |
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  Queen Boobie 2
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| mruggles - 2015-03-26 10:31 AM
BBKitamanCutter - 2015-03-27 9:25 AM I have tried to stay off this thread but now I can't
You guys posting about PMU mares need to get educated on it and quit posting crap. I can almost gurantee none of you have ever set foot in a facility. The industry is extremely regulated I live in an area around many of them http://www.naeric.org/about.asp?strNav=0&strBtn=5... and ALL of my horses have been BOUGHT from pmu operations.
The horse in my avatar is a 1D horse that was a PMU foal. I've been in the facilities and none of this crap you are posting happens in any of them.
The nurse mare thing is a totally different deal. Thank you....i actually cursed outloud..lol... when i read that garbage about the pmu barn.................... m
Thank you guys for coming on and setting that straight! |
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  Queen Boobie 2
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| MeepMeep - 2015-03-26 12:09 PM
Yeah, because if it's on the internet it MUST be true right? Let's just keep getting stupider and stupider :-/ Dispose of dairy calves???? Let PMU foals and mares just die??? Sounds like great business practice....Common sense people, do you think that the majority of these businesses would let a profit "die"??? Get real....Get your information from reliable sources, don't google and believe every article you read. 
Dispose of dairy calves makes me laugh. Yeah they dispose of them for $300 to $500 a head at three days old! Expensive little farts :) |
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Expert
Posts: 3147
   
| fatchance - 2015-03-25 10:54 AM
livinonlove&horses - 2015-03-25 5:40 AM I read an article where a lot of TB goals are raised by nurse mares. Because they are worth so much when they are born and the mare needs to be rebred which requires travel because they won't AI it's too risky to send the foal with the mare. So it is raised by a nurse mare while the mare is shipped for rebreeding
Please direct me to this article. I assure you I have never seen this practice.
I would think separating a mare from her foal would cause an extreme amount of distress on the mare and coming into heat or being bred would be the last thing on her mind. Separating a mare from her foal just to rebreed sounds like a fairy tale to me. Rachel Alexandra's foal was put on a nurse mare as she had a life threatening infection. Curlin's dam has a deformed/fractured knee so her foals are put on nurse mares as she is unable to care for them. I have also heard of the nurse mares keeping their foal and nursing two foals. |
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Elite Veteran
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
          Location: Washington | BMW - 2015-03-26 5:39 PM fatchance - 2015-03-25 10:54 AM livinonlove&horses - 2015-03-25 5:40 AM I read an article where a lot of TB goals are raised by nurse mares. Because they are worth so much when they are born and the mare needs to be rebred which requires travel because they won't AI it's too risky to send the foal with the mare. So it is raised by a nurse mare while the mare is shipped for rebreeding Please direct me to this article. I assure you I have never seen this practice. I would think separating a mare from her foal would cause an extreme amount of distress on the mare and coming into heat or being bred would be the last thing on her mind. Separating a mare from her foal just to rebreed sounds like a fairy tale to me. Rachel Alexandra's foal was put on a nurse mare as she had a life threatening infection. Curlin's dam has a deformed/fractured knee so her foals are put on nurse mares as she is unable to care for them. I have also heard of the nurse mares keeping their foal and nursing two foals.
I am for nurse mares incase you didn't understand that.
The bleeding hearts here that truly belive there is a horrid issue with over population due to nurse mares need to see how many QH farms/ranches are using surrogate mares to mass produce one dam. Got to love a dam than can produce litters. I can do this all day long, as a whole there is enough blame to go around, but to say what was said about nurse mares in absolute is unfair. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
      
| fatchance - 2015-03-26 9:03 PM BMW - 2015-03-26 5:39 PM fatchance - 2015-03-25 10:54 AM livinonlove&horses - 2015-03-25 5:40 AM I read an article where a lot of TB goals are raised by nurse mares. Because they are worth so much when they are born and the mare needs to be rebred which requires travel because they won't AI it's too risky to send the foal with the mare. So it is raised by a nurse mare while the mare is shipped for rebreeding Please direct me to this article. I assure you I have never seen this practice. I would think separating a mare from her foal would cause an extreme amount of distress on the mare and coming into heat or being bred would be the last thing on her mind. Separating a mare from her foal just to rebreed sounds like a fairy tale to me. Rachel Alexandra's foal was put on a nurse mare as she had a life threatening infection. Curlin's dam has a deformed/fractured knee so her foals are put on nurse mares as she is unable to care for them. I have also heard of the nurse mares keeping their foal and nursing two foals. I am for nurse mares incase you didn't understand that.
The bleeding hearts here that truly belive there is a horrid issue with over population due to nurse mares need to see how many QH farms/ranches are using surrogate mares to mass produce one dam. Got to love a dam than can produce litters. I can do this all day long, as a whole there is enough blame to go around, but to say what was said about nurse mares in absolute is unfair.
Over breeding in any circumstance for any reason is not good. One does not justify the other. I wish all over breeding would stop. I may be considered a bleeding heart for not liking mares being bred just to create orphans but at least I have a heart. This practice is not necessary in today's world. |
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    Location: delaWHERE? | Southtxponygirl - 2015-03-26 9:45 AM
Scoot - 2015-03-26 8:15 AM I work at a fairly well known vet hospital here on the East Coast and we have a client that runs a nurse mare facility. What she does is turns 30 to 40 mares pretty well bonded mares with foals at their sides and the babies all nurse from each other's moms. It's strange to see for the first time, but when the nurse mares are needed, the babies just continue on nursing from other moms. What I will say is that they are impeccably cared for. She does a great job and I understand her to be the outlier, but they are out there.
What does she do with all the babys ?
She adopts them out or keeps the fillies to be nurse mares themselves. They are nice riding horses, she does a cross of Clydesdale/paints. End up being very solid, very quiet riding horses. Ideal for fox hunting. |
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 Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
     Location: Texas | bennie1 - 2015-03-26 12:21 PM MeepMeep - 2015-03-26 12:09 PM Yeah, because if it's on the internet it MUST be true right? Let's just keep getting stupider and stupider :-/ Dispose of dairy calves???? Let PMU foals and mares just die??? Sounds like great business practice....Common sense people, do you think that the majority of these businesses would let a profit "die"??? Get real....Get your information from reliable sources, don't google and believe every article you read.  Dispose of dairy calves makes me laugh. Yeah they dispose of them for $300 to $500 a head at three days old! Expensive little farts : )
Not around here. We were picking up trailer loads for next to nothing ($25-$75 a calf depending on where we went, some of them would cut us a break on sickly ones also just to get them gone). Some of the places we went did give colostrum, some didn't. Some of the calves we picked up weren't even completely dry. Some were very healthy for dairy calves, some I asked my husband "What were you thinking?" lol. We ran about 100 bottle calves through our place one summer. We lost around 5. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
    Location: Midwest | pinx05 - 2015-03-27 9:25 AM
bennie1 - 2015-03-26 12:21 PM MeepMeep - 2015-03-26 12:09 PM Yeah, because if it's on the internet it MUST be true right? Let's just keep getting stupider and stupider :-/ Dispose of dairy calves???? Let PMU foals and mares just die??? Sounds like great business practice....Common sense people, do you think that the majority of these businesses would let a profit "die"??? Get real....Get your information from reliable sources, don't google and believe every article you read.  Dispose of dairy calves makes me laugh. Yeah they dispose of them for $300 to $500 a head at three days old! Expensive little farts : )
Not around here. We were picking up trailer loads for next to nothing ($25-$75 a calf depending on where we went, some of them would cut us a break on sickly ones also just to get them gone). Some of the places we went did give colostrum, some didn't. Some of the calves we picked up weren't even completely dry. Some were very healthy for dairy calves, some I asked my husband "What were you thinking?" lol. We ran about 100 bottle calves through our place one summer. We lost around 5.
In my area they bottle feed all of the calves. My friend owns a dairy farm and they do everything to keep those calves alive for either use on the farm or sale as a steer. They have about 4000 head between two farms and I assure you they don't just throw out all those calves. They are kept in hutches and bucket/bottle fed until old enough to sell.
During the cold snaps last year they did everything they could to save as many as possible, including bringing calves in the office bathrooms to warm them up!
If you are getting calves for 25 bucks I want in on that! lol |
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  Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
  
| pinx05 - 2015-03-27 9:25 AM
bennie1 - 2015-03-26 12:21 PM MeepMeep - 2015-03-26 12:09 PM Yeah, because if it's on the internet it MUST be true right? Let's just keep getting stupider and stupider :-/ Dispose of dairy calves???? Let PMU foals and mares just die??? Sounds like great business practice....Common sense people, do you think that the majority of these businesses would let a profit "die"??? Get real....Get your information from reliable sources, don't google and believe every article you read.  Dispose of dairy calves makes me laugh. Yeah they dispose of them for $300 to $500 a head at three days old! Expensive little farts : )
Not around here. We were picking up trailer loads for next to nothing ($25-$75 a calf depending on where we went, some of them would cut us a break on sickly ones also just to get them gone). Some of the places we went did give colostrum, some didn't. Some of the calves we picked up weren't even completely dry. Some were very healthy for dairy calves, some I asked my husband "What were you thinking?" lol. We ran about 100 bottle calves through our place one summer. We lost around 5.
The market has changed. They were that cheap here a few years back. Are they that cheap there now? If they are, I am going to need a trailer full. I've raised my share of bottle calves. Just 15 or 20 at a time. I was young and had the time to mess with them and made decent money on them.
I remember a time when rumors were rampant of farmers knocking them in the head, but that turned out to be only rumor. |
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 Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
     Location: Texas | bennie1 - 2015-03-27 10:17 AM pinx05 - 2015-03-27 9:25 AM bennie1 - 2015-03-26 12:21 PM MeepMeep - 2015-03-26 12:09 PM Yeah, because if it's on the internet it MUST be true right? Let's just keep getting stupider and stupider :-/ Dispose of dairy calves???? Let PMU foals and mares just die??? Sounds like great business practice....Common sense people, do you think that the majority of these businesses would let a profit "die"??? Get real....Get your information from reliable sources, don't google and believe every article you read.  Dispose of dairy calves makes me laugh. Yeah they dispose of them for $300 to $500 a head at three days old! Expensive little farts : ) Not around here. We were picking up trailer loads for next to nothing ($25-$75 a calf depending on where we went, some of them would cut us a break on sickly ones also just to get them gone). Some of the places we went did give colostrum, some didn't. Some of the calves we picked up weren't even completely dry. Some were very healthy for dairy calves, some I asked my husband "What were you thinking?" lol. We ran about 100 bottle calves through our place one summer. We lost around 5. The market has changed. They were that cheap here a few years back. Are they that cheap there now? If they are, I am going to need a trailer full. I've raised my share of bottle calves. Just 15 or 20 at a time. I was young and had the time to mess with them and made decent money on them. I remember a time when rumors were rampant of farmers knocking them in the head, but that turned out to be only rumor. I don't know what they are now. This was about 3-4 years ago. I didn't say they threw them out by the way, they were selling them to us... just for dirt cheap.
ETA: We got them in small groups also. We would go get 5-10, and once that group got going good we would go get another. Once my husband brought home like 20, that group was miserable lol. That was just too many needy babies on top of what we already had.
Edited by pinx05 2015-03-27 10:26 AM
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  Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
  
| pinx05 - 2015-03-27 10:20 AM
bennie1 - 2015-03-27 10:17 AM
pinx05 - 2015-03-27 9:25 AM
bennie1 - 2015-03-26 12:21 PM MeepMeep - 2015-03-26 12:09 PM Yeah, because if it's on the internet it MUST be true right? Let's just keep getting stupider and stupider :-/ Dispose of dairy calves???? Let PMU foals and mares just die??? Sounds like great business practice....Common sense people, do you think that the majority of these businesses would let a profit "die"??? Get real....Get your information from reliable sources, don't google and believe every article you read.  Dispose of dairy calves makes me laugh. Yeah they dispose of them for $300 to $500 a head at three days old! Expensive little farts : )
Not around here. We were picking up trailer loads for next to nothing ($25-$75 a calf depending on where we went, some of them would cut us a break on sickly ones also just to get them gone). Some of the places we went did give colostrum, some didn't. Some of the calves we picked up weren't even completely dry. Some were very healthy for dairy calves, some I asked my husband "What were you thinking?" lol. We ran about 100 bottle calves through our place one summer. We lost around 5.
The market has changed. They were that cheap here a few years back. Are they that cheap there now? If they are, I am going to need a trailer full. I've raised my share of bottle calves. Just 15 or 20 at a time. I was young and had the time to mess with them and made decent money on them.
I remember a time when rumors were rampant of farmers knocking them in the head, but that turned out to be only rumor.
I don't know what they are now. This was about 3-4 years ago.
I didn't say they threw them out by the way, they were selling them to us... just for dirt cheap.
A few years ago they were cheaper. Here's a link to an auction a couple weeks ago. Scroll down and the baby calves are toward the bottom. http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/jc_ls130.txt |
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 Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
     Location: Texas | bennie1 - 2015-03-27 10:22 AM pinx05 - 2015-03-27 10:20 AM bennie1 - 2015-03-27 10:17 AM pinx05 - 2015-03-27 9:25 AM bennie1 - 2015-03-26 12:21 PM MeepMeep - 2015-03-26 12:09 PM Yeah, because if it's on the internet it MUST be true right? Let's just keep getting stupider and stupider :-/ Dispose of dairy calves???? Let PMU foals and mares just die??? Sounds like great business practice....Common sense people, do you think that the majority of these businesses would let a profit "die"??? Get real....Get your information from reliable sources, don't google and believe every article you read.  Dispose of dairy calves makes me laugh. Yeah they dispose of them for $300 to $500 a head at three days old! Expensive little farts : ) Not around here. We were picking up trailer loads for next to nothing ($25-$75 a calf depending on where we went, some of them would cut us a break on sickly ones also just to get them gone). Some of the places we went did give colostrum, some didn't. Some of the calves we picked up weren't even completely dry. Some were very healthy for dairy calves, some I asked my husband "What were you thinking?" lol. We ran about 100 bottle calves through our place one summer. We lost around 5. The market has changed. They were that cheap here a few years back. Are they that cheap there now? If they are, I am going to need a trailer full. I've raised my share of bottle calves. Just 15 or 20 at a time. I was young and had the time to mess with them and made decent money on them. I remember a time when rumors were rampant of farmers knocking them in the head, but that turned out to be only rumor. I don't know what they are now. This was about 3-4 years ago. I didn't say they threw them out by the way, they were selling them to us... just for dirt cheap. A few years ago they were cheaper. Here's a link to an auction a couple weeks ago. Scroll down and the baby calves are toward the bottom. http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/jc_ls130.txt
I'm not arguing with you. |
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  Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
  
| pinx05 - 2015-03-27 11:00 AM
bennie1 - 2015-03-27 10:22 AM pinx05 - 2015-03-27 10:20 AM bennie1 - 2015-03-27 10:17 AM pinx05 - 2015-03-27 9:25 AM bennie1 - 2015-03-26 12:21 PM MeepMeep - 2015-03-26 12:09 PM Yeah, because if it's on the internet it MUST be true right? Let's just keep getting stupider and stupider :-/ Dispose of dairy calves???? Let PMU foals and mares just die??? Sounds like great business practice....Common sense people, do you think that the majority of these businesses would let a profit "die"??? Get real....Get your information from reliable sources, don't google and believe every article you read.  Dispose of dairy calves makes me laugh. Yeah they dispose of them for $300 to $500 a head at three days old! Expensive little farts : ) Not around here. We were picking up trailer loads for next to nothing ($25-$75 a calf depending on where we went, some of them would cut us a break on sickly ones also just to get them gone). Some of the places we went did give colostrum, some didn't. Some of the calves we picked up weren't even completely dry. Some were very healthy for dairy calves, some I asked my husband "What were you thinking?" lol. We ran about 100 bottle calves through our place one summer. We lost around 5. The market has changed. They were that cheap here a few years back. Are they that cheap there now? If they are, I am going to need a trailer full. I've raised my share of bottle calves. Just 15 or 20 at a time. I was young and had the time to mess with them and made decent money on them. I remember a time when rumors were rampant of farmers knocking them in the head, but that turned out to be only rumor. I don't know what they are now. This was about 3-4 years ago. I didn't say they threw them out by the way, they were selling them to us... just for dirt cheap. A few years ago they were cheaper. Here's a link to an auction a couple weeks ago. Scroll down and the baby calves are toward the bottom. http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/jc_ls130.txt
I'm not arguing with you.
I think it's a character flaw of mine that I have to prove I'm not crazy when I make a statement. I think it comes off as having the last word or spiking the ball. Sorry about that. |
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 Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
     Location: Texas | bennie1 - 2015-03-27 11:11 AM pinx05 - 2015-03-27 11:00 AM bennie1 - 2015-03-27 10:22 AM pinx05 - 2015-03-27 10:20 AM bennie1 - 2015-03-27 10:17 AM pinx05 - 2015-03-27 9:25 AM bennie1 - 2015-03-26 12:21 PM MeepMeep - 2015-03-26 12:09 PM Yeah, because if it's on the internet it MUST be true right? Let's just keep getting stupider and stupider :-/ Dispose of dairy calves???? Let PMU foals and mares just die??? Sounds like great business practice....Common sense people, do you think that the majority of these businesses would let a profit "die"??? Get real....Get your information from reliable sources, don't google and believe every article you read.  Dispose of dairy calves makes me laugh. Yeah they dispose of them for $300 to $500 a head at three days old! Expensive little farts : ) Not around here. We were picking up trailer loads for next to nothing ($25-$75 a calf depending on where we went, some of them would cut us a break on sickly ones also just to get them gone). Some of the places we went did give colostrum, some didn't. Some of the calves we picked up weren't even completely dry. Some were very healthy for dairy calves, some I asked my husband "What were you thinking?" lol. We ran about 100 bottle calves through our place one summer. We lost around 5. The market has changed. They were that cheap here a few years back. Are they that cheap there now? If they are, I am going to need a trailer full. I've raised my share of bottle calves. Just 15 or 20 at a time. I was young and had the time to mess with them and made decent money on them. I remember a time when rumors were rampant of farmers knocking them in the head, but that turned out to be only rumor. I don't know what they are now. This was about 3-4 years ago. I didn't say they threw them out by the way, they were selling them to us... just for dirt cheap. A few years ago they were cheaper. Here's a link to an auction a couple weeks ago. Scroll down and the baby calves are toward the bottom. http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/jc_ls130.txt I'm not arguing with you. I think it's a character flaw of mine that I have to prove I'm not crazy when I make a statement. I think it comes off as having the last word or spiking the ball. Sorry about that.
No problem lol. I kept going back and reading what I typed going "What did I say?". |
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 Something Like That
Posts: 2300
    Location: kansas | I have to say that in the past, while working on a commercial TB farm, we did use nurse mares. Their foals were not taken away from them until they were needed, the mares have to be in milk. Most of the ones we used had their foals given to people in the neighborhood and I even got one, he was 30 days old when I got him. |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
        Location: The Oklahoma plains. | fatchance - 2015-03-26 9:03 PM BMW - 2015-03-26 5:39 PM fatchance - 2015-03-25 10:54 AM livinonlove&horses - 2015-03-25 5:40 AM I read an article where a lot of TB goals are raised by nurse mares. Because they are worth so much when they are born and the mare needs to be rebred which requires travel because they won't AI it's too risky to send the foal with the mare. So it is raised by a nurse mare while the mare is shipped for rebreeding Please direct me to this article. I assure you I have never seen this practice. I would think separating a mare from her foal would cause an extreme amount of distress on the mare and coming into heat or being bred would be the last thing on her mind. Separating a mare from her foal just to rebreed sounds like a fairy tale to me. Rachel Alexandra's foal was put on a nurse mare as she had a life threatening infection. Curlin's dam has a deformed/fractured knee so her foals are put on nurse mares as she is unable to care for them. I have also heard of the nurse mares keeping their foal and nursing two foals. I am for nurse mares incase you didn't understand that.
The bleeding hearts here that truly belive there is a horrid issue with over population due to nurse mares need to see how many QH farms/ranches are using surrogate mares to mass produce one dam. Got to love a dam than can produce litters. I can do this all day long, as a whole there is enough blame to go around, but to say what was said about nurse mares in absolute is unfair.
I agree with you FC. And seriously, I disagree with the bad parts of Nurse mare issues but there is obviously a need. I dont think the bad people created the need. But if you are going to take a baby away from a mare and all the work involved in training a mare to be a good nurse mare while keeping your now orphaned foal well cared for, they ought to make a profit. I dont see it a greed or a quick buck. We have to be careful where to draw the line on animal rights or we too will be regulated out of the cruel practice of running barrels on a 4 year old baby. Lastly, there are breeders on here (adding to the unwanted population so to speak) who if there was a camera on their operation of how they handled broodmares and babies- the customers would be shocked!! And we would have a whole other thread about how these people are still in business and we support them. I have a bleeding heart more than anyone. But I think hype on the internet by those who have not been to any such facility or farm who uses these mares is near sladerous. IMO. |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
           Location: Florida.. | Being concerned about over population and assembly line mares and over producing to me isnt a bleeding heart.. I am concerned and tired of the overbreeding ..and so is alot BUT I agree breeders do the same thing .. mare after mare after mare.. more more more... some anyway.. unfortunately ... people cant self regulate.. I know its no place for government though.. so its a no win situation.. |
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