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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 540
 
Location: My own little world :) | Critique me and my horse please. What are we doing wrong and does she look sore? We have only been loping through for a very short time...I know its rough right now but to me in the video my horse doesn't want to use her hind end. I don't know if that is soreness or is the tail wringing her just being a turd. I haven't rode in over a week and it was a blistery and windy day and its spring. Thanks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDAJ-juh_6s&feature=youtu.be |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
 
Location: Phoenix | How old is she? Is she in shape? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 540
Location: My own little world :) | hammer_time - 2015-03-26 12:33 AM
How old is she? Is she in shape?
She is 5 this year and no I wouldn't say she's in shape. She hurt her left hock last June so we are just slowly getting back into the swing of things and I've really babied her in regards to exercising because I didn't want to hurt her. |
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 Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
 
Location: Texas | Zanadoo88 - 2015-03-26 12:38 AM hammer_time - 2015-03-26 12:33 AM How old is she? Is she in shape? She is 5 this year and no I wouldn't say she's in shape. She hurt her left hock last June so we are just slowly getting back into the swing of things and I've really babied her in regards to exercising because I didn't want to hurt her.
Did you have everything checked out by the vet that she's good to go?
She does look a little off to me with the backend but im by no means a lameness expert... Your riding looks really good which is what would make me suspect soreness. |
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Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
Location: Texas | outrundaizy - 2015-03-26 1:27 AM Zanadoo88 - 2015-03-26 12:38 AM hammer_time - 2015-03-26 12:33 AM How old is she? Is she in shape? She is 5 this year and no I wouldn't say she's in shape. She hurt her left hock last June so we are just slowly getting back into the swing of things and I've really babied her in regards to exercising because I didn't want to hurt her.
She does look a little off to me with the backend but im by no means a lameness expert... Your riding looks really good which is what would make me suspect soreness.
If you watch her left back leg it looks like she can't keep it in the ground on the first and she looses it going around the second and third.. I would have that leg re-checked by a lameness vet. And get some PHT hock wraps if you don't already have them. |
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7264
| outrundaizy - 2015-03-26 1:30 AM
outrundaizy - 2015-03-26 1:27 AM Zanadoo88 - 2015-03-26 12:38 AM hammer_time - 2015-03-26 12:33 AM How old is she? Is she in shape? She is 5 this year and no I wouldn't say she's in shape. She hurt her left hock last June so we are just slowly getting back into the swing of things and I've really babied her in regards to exercising because I didn't want to hurt her.
She does look a little off to me with the backend but im by no means a lameness expert... Your riding looks really good which is what would make me suspect soreness.
I agree and especially with all that tail swishing, she's trying to tell you something. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | I can't tell that well from my phone but she was on the wrong back lead but if she's still just starting Shes going to switch them until she realizes right from wrong, just do a lot of exercises outside of barrels to get her working off her hind end again.
She is swishing her tail but I have one that does that as well and I've tested every part of her body and she's completely sound, just make sure nothing is hurting her, saddle fit, that hock, etc. |
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | She looks sore in the hind end to me. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | definitely looks sore to me in the back end. I'd get her looked at. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| The horse is on the correct lead going into the barrel but switches in the back end going around each barrel. |
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Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | She just doesn't look very broke to me. Just being honest. |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | hammer_time - 2015-03-26 8:24 AM She just doesn't look very broke to me. Just being honest.
Really? You can tell that from a 30 second video? Maybe you're right, but what I see is a horse that has a pretty good body shape, pretty good headset, responds to the rider with fast feet, broken leads and wringing tail. With a known hock issue, I would not be doing any small circle work until she's in better shape AND had a good going over by a vet. Just getting her in shape might help her a bunch. |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| LMS - 2015-03-26 8:53 AM
hammer_time - 2015-03-26 8:24 AM She just doesn't look very broke to me. Just being honest.
Really? You can tell that from a 30 second video? Maybe you're right, but what I see is a horse that has a pretty good body shape, pretty good headset, responds to the rider with fast feet, broken leads and wringing tail. With a known hock issue, I would not be doing any small circle work until she's in better shape AND had a good going over by a vet. Just getting her in shape might help her a bunch.
I see a horse that needs a lameness veterinarian. I would start with a full lameness evaluation and hock X-rays, injections may be in order. Id pull her off the pattern and do lots of ponying in straight lines until I had a consensus that she's not sore and in better condition.
Then I would get back on her and exercise for at least a week or two just jogging and loping in the pasture. Then pull it in and do lots of big looping circles at a trot and lope in the arena for a couple of weeks after that. Then resume gentle pattern work.
I think you'd like how that turned out. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| She is hurting
My guess both hocks |
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Veteran
Posts: 160
Location: Texas | i would work on getting her in shape for a couple of weeks. lots of large circles. then go back to the barrel pattern. see if she wants to get in the ground more in the hind end and doesn't swish her tail. if she doesn't change, then have a lameness exam. I think you would feel better about it all. |
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 I hate cooking and cleaning
Posts: 3310
Location: Jersey Girl | I would guess she is sore because of the tail wringing. |
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Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | I guess she doesn't look very broke because it looks like she doesn't know how to use her body....or maybe she doesn't want to because she's sore (which I think is the case). |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 540
Location: My own little world :) | hammer_time - 2015-03-26 11:55 AM
I guess she doesn't look very broke because it looks like she doesn't know how to use her body....or maybe she doesn't want to because she's sore (which I think is the case).
I totally get what you are saying. Yesterday this just felt super trashy and even when practicing stops she doesn't want to stick her but in the ground and what not. I had a horse before that I remember feeling like something was wrong with her and everyone told me she was just being a butt. She's really never been a tail swisher and usually tries pretty hard for you. Yesterday she just felt like she didn't want to and that she was all over the place...but that could also be because I hadn't rode her in a week? |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2931
Location: North Dakota | "no I wouldn't say she's in shape."
Then I would absolutely NOT be expecting to ask her to lope in small circle (AKA work the barrel pattern). They need stamina and strength to do that, and they can't do it if they aren't in shape. Work on getting her back into shape FIRST before doing any barrel work.
"She hurt her left hock last June"
Did the vet clear her to be ridden? What was the problem and how was it treated?
"She's really never been a tail swisher and usually tries pretty hard for you."
Then something is off if this is out of the norm for her.
I think she's in pain. Yes, she could be out-of-shape as well, but something just looks very "off" to me in her hind end. She's hopping on her back legs and cross-firing in every turn. She's also not reaching underneath herself. She looks really unhappy.
I would first have her checked head-to-toe by a good lameness vet, with particular attention to her previously hurt hock.
I would also make sure her teeth have been done recently.
And get her checked by a chiro.
And get her feet up-to-date, if they are not already.
If no pain is found (although I'm guessing they will find something), then work on getting her into better shape for at least a few weeks, before you even try to do any barrel work with small circles. She may be cross-firing because she is green on the barrels, but you also have to give her the best chance you can (#1 being in shape #2 not being in pain).
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 I Chore in Chucks
Posts: 2882
Location: MD | she looks like a p'd off youngster. she looks pretty ouchy in the hind end |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | To me she looks like shes trying but sore. Hocks would be my guess and Id have them xrayed. shes not wanting to put any weight on them and isnt stepping under . Id stay off any circle work and no lunging until shes checked out. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 540
Location: My own little world :) | Hello all! Thank you for all of your responses. I have made an appointment for my mare for next Tuesday to get all checked out. I thought I would continue light riding and working on getting on shape but no small circles or anything super strenuous or taxing until I get the ok from the vet. Does that sound like a plan??? |
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Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
Location: Texas | Zanadoo88 - 2015-03-27 1:35 PM Hello all! Thank you for all of your responses. I have made an appointment for my mare for next Tuesday to get all checked out. I thought I would continue light riding and working on getting on shape but no small circles or anything super strenuous or taxing until I get the ok from the vet. Does that sound like a plan???
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 Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4553
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | She looks really sore across the loin muscle, perhaps a huge cramp due to the sore leg. I would only do straight riding until she gets more fit. |
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Veteran
Posts: 147
| I am going to agree with she doesn't look very broke to me either. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 540
Location: My own little world :) | So if she isn't very broke what should I do? Should I stop barrel work? |
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Cold hands and Warm Heart
Location: oklahoma | Zanadoo88 - 2015-03-27 4:50 PM So if she isn't very broke what should I do? Should I stop barrel work?
I don't know if it's because she's not broke but mostly because she's sore that she's not wanting to work. I wouldn't work on the pattern at all till her hocks are looked at, X-rays. She's cute and I don't know how anyone can tell how broke she is, she's not wanting to use her hind end at all. |
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Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
Location: Texas | Zanadoo88 - 2015-03-27 4:50 PM So if she isn't very broke what should I do? Should I stop barrel work?
Do you feel like she's well broke? We can't judge simply off this video, especially if she is sore. Get her checked out by the vet first. |
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Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24953
Location: WYOMING | I think there is some good and could be improved going on here.
First I do think she is broke enough to be doing what you are asking of her. She's broke in the poll, switching leads, good body position, going where you put her, etc.
I train a bit different than you however, so my could be improved(s) come from that.
I am not a fan of hand riding them thru 100% of the time. I like to show them how to turn off the pattern then let their heads alone on the pattern unless I am helping them at a certain point. It makes for a much more confident barrel horse. You hand ride the entire ride, keep her collected up and are making all the decisions. Her tail wring at #2 and head shake at #3 could certainly be from being held so long/much. I have a mare that doesnt respond well to this either. If you hold one the entire time, then need to help them, how do they know the difference in your hands? You (anyone) pulls harder on an already hand held horse and the horse has no release but to wring a tail or shake a head.
I think your "pockets" are much too wide which can eventually teach them to not collect in a turn, drop their shoulders, flatten on the back, exit wide... lots of "**** rolls down hill" type stuff can happen with speed when you train one to enter too wide.
I dont think she wants to use her hind end because she is collected up and in hand so much that she cant really use her body properly in the turn. But I kinda like my horses to "follow their nose" thru a turn in a more natural manner and "give back" to me in their face only when I ask.
I dont think its as rough as you think though. She is doing EXACTLY what you are asking of her which is a super nice quality for sure! You aren't letting her really TURN a barrel, you are more like loping a circle around a barrel.
I think I would work on building her confidence. Don't micromanage her. Let her try and help her instead of managing her. Perfect practice IS NOT PERFECT! It often makes unconfident horses that when you add speed have been too overridden to do their part of the job.
So thats what I see... good luck with your horse, she looks nice.
Edited by geronabean 2015-03-29 3:52 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 160
| geronabean - 2015-03-29 3:50 PM
I think there is some good and could be improved going on here.
First I do think she is broke enough to be doing what you are asking of her. She's broke in the poll, switching leads, good body position, going where you put her, etc.
I train a bit different than you however, so my could be improved(s) come from that.
I am not a fan of hand riding them thru 100% of the time. I like to show them how to turn off the pattern then let their heads alone on the pattern unless I am helping them at a certain point. It makes for a much more confident barrel horse. You hand ride the entire ride, keep her collected up and are making all the decisions. Her tail wring at #2 and head shake at #3 could certainly be from being held so long/much. I have a mare that doesnt respond well to this either. If you hold one the entire time, then need to help them, how do they know the difference in your hands? You (anyone) pulls harder on an already hand held horse and the horse has no release but to wring a tail or shake a head.
I think your "pockets" are much too wide which can eventually teach them to not collect in a turn, drop their shoulders, flatten on the back, exit wide... lots of "**** rolls down hill" type stuff can happen with speed when you train one to enter too wide.
I dont think she wants to use her hind end because she is collected up and in hand so much that she cant really use her body properly in the turn. But I kinda like my horses to "follow their nose" thru a turn in a more natural manner and "give back" to me in their face only when I ask.
I dont think its as rough as you think though. She is doing EXACTLY what you are asking of her which is a super nice quality for sure! You aren't letting her really TURN a barrel, you are more like loping a circle around a barrel.
I think I would work on building her confidence. Don't micromanage her. Let her try and help her instead of managing her. Perfect practice IS NOT PERFECT! It often makes unconfident horses that when you add speed have been too overridden to do their part of the job.
So thats what I see... good luck with your horse, she looks nice.
^^^ This! I was thinking the same.. Possibly some soreness to go along with it, but most definitely the above as well. Good luck! I like her! |
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 Expert
Posts: 1273
Location: South Dakota | I like your horse too. I would get the soreness checked out but really liked geronabean's advice. I hope you don't mind Geronabean but I printed it out, lol! I couldn't figure out why my horse, who was normally really quick to learn stuff, couldn't get the barrels. I was micromanaging him so much that he wasn't learning. I was too worried about trying to get a perfect pattern loping. Our slow work didn't look as nice as yours Zanadoo88. I gave him to my daughter who would just go out there and expect him to do it and pretty soon he did. |
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Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24953
Location: WYOMING | Timber Creek - 2015-03-30 10:07 AM
I like your horse too. I would get the soreness checked out but really liked geronabean's advice. I hope you don't mind Geronabean but I printed it out, lol! I couldn't figure out why my horse, who was normally really quick to learn stuff, couldn't get the barrels. I was micromanaging him so much that he wasn't learning. I was too worried about trying to get a perfect pattern loping. Our slow work didn't look as nice as yours Zanadoo88. I gave him to my daughter who would just go out there and expect him to do it and pretty soon he did.
Hope something I said helps!!!!! |
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Veteran
Posts: 120
| This horse is cross firing...doesn't necessarily mean her hocks are sore either. My guess is if she has had time off due to an injury her hocks are weak. She cross fires to compensate. Turning a tight barrel is incredibly hard for horses and they need to be strong in the hocks and in the topline. Some horses are tail ringers when they run....see it all the time. If its not normal for her then yes, it could be she is in pain...or it could be that she's is irritated because she doesn't want to work....
This could all be something that is fixed with regular exercise and getting the blood flowing through those joints. Getting her fit before asking her to lope through the barrels......
Sometimes we complicate things........... |
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Veteran
Posts: 120
| horseshorseshorses - 2015-03-29 5:01 PM
geronabean - 2015-03-29 3:50 PM
I think there is some good and could be improved going on here.
First I do think she is broke enough to be doing what you are asking of her. She's broke in the poll, switching leads, good body position, going where you put her, etc.
I train a bit different than you however, so my could be improved(s) come from that.
I am not a fan of hand riding them thru 100% of the time. I like to show them how to turn off the pattern then let their heads alone on the pattern unless I am helping them at a certain point. It makes for a much more confident barrel horse. You hand ride the entire ride, keep her collected up and are making all the decisions. Her tail wring at #2 and head shake at #3 could certainly be from being held so long/much. I have a mare that doesnt respond well to this either. If you hold one the entire time, then need to help them, how do they know the difference in your hands? You (anyone) pulls harder on an already hand held horse and the horse has no release but to wring a tail or shake a head.
I think your "pockets" are much too wide which can eventually teach them to not collect in a turn, drop their shoulders, flatten on the back, exit wide... lots of "**** rolls down hill" type stuff can happen with speed when you train one to enter too wide.
I dont think she wants to use her hind end because she is collected up and in hand so much that she cant really use her body properly in the turn. But I kinda like my horses to "follow their nose" thru a turn in a more natural manner and "give back" to me in their face only when I ask.
I dont think its as rough as you think though. She is doing EXACTLY what you are asking of her which is a super nice quality for sure! You aren't letting her really TURN a barrel, you are more like loping a circle around a barrel.
I think I would work on building her confidence. Don't micromanage her. Let her try and help her instead of managing her. Perfect practice IS NOT PERFECT! It often makes unconfident horses that when you add speed have been too overridden to do their part of the job.
So thats what I see... good luck with your horse, she looks nice.
^^^ This! I was thinking the same.. Possibly some soreness to go along with it, but most definitely the above as well. Good luck! I like her!
This is an excellent, excellent post......and really gets right down to it. Thanks for this simple, yet very true reminder. If you ever wonder why kids are so good...look no further. They just ride. Let the horse work. Love it. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 540
Location: My own little world :) | banjomia - 2015-03-30 12:51 PM
This horse is cross firing...doesn't necessarily mean her hocks are sore either. My guess is if she has had time off due to an injury her hocks are weak. She cross fires to compensate. Turning a tight barrel is incredibly hard for horses and they need to be strong in the hocks and in the topline. Some horses are tail ringers when they run....see it all the time. If its not normal for her then yes, it could be she is in pain...or it could be that she's is irritated because she doesn't want to work....
This could all be something that is fixed with regular exercise and getting the blood flowing through those joints. Getting her fit before asking her to lope through the barrels......
Sometimes we complicate things...........
I totally agree with you hear and I feel bad that I am asking too much of her before she is ready. At this point in my life I haven't had a lot of time to be consistent in my riding so there is no way she can be where she needs to be in fitness and that is totally my fault. I am hoping she is just compensating and maybe trying to protect herself since she was injured last summer. I have decided that from here on out I have to make my riding a huge priority and we are going to trail ride and work on getting in shape before we try loping through again. We will trot and do drywork a bit but no loping through. Thanks!
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 540
Location: My own little world :) | geronabean - 2015-03-29 3:50 PM
I think there is some good and could be improved going on here.
First I do think she is broke enough to be doing what you are asking of her. She's broke in the poll, switching leads, good body position, going where you put her, etc.
I train a bit different than you however, so my could be improved(s) come from that.
I am not a fan of hand riding them thru 100% of the time. I like to show them how to turn off the pattern then let their heads alone on the pattern unless I am helping them at a certain point. It makes for a much more confident barrel horse. You hand ride the entire ride, keep her collected up and are making all the decisions. Her tail wring at #2 and head shake at #3 could certainly be from being held so long/much. I have a mare that doesnt respond well to this either. If you hold one the entire time, then need to help them, how do they know the difference in your hands? You (anyone) pulls harder on an already hand held horse and the horse has no release but to wring a tail or shake a head.
I think your "pockets" are much too wide which can eventually teach them to not collect in a turn, drop their shoulders, flatten on the back, exit wide... lots of "**** rolls down hill" type stuff can happen with speed when you train one to enter too wide.
I dont think she wants to use her hind end because she is collected up and in hand so much that she cant really use her body properly in the turn. But I kinda like my horses to "follow their nose" thru a turn in a more natural manner and "give back" to me in their face only when I ask.
I dont think its as rough as you think though. She is doing EXACTLY what you are asking of her which is a super nice quality for sure! You aren't letting her really TURN a barrel, you are more like loping a circle around a barrel.
I think I would work on building her confidence. Don't micromanage her. Let her try and help her instead of managing her. Perfect practice IS NOT PERFECT! It often makes unconfident horses that when you add speed have been too overridden to do their part of the job.
So thats what I see... good luck with your horse, she looks nice.
Thank you for your input! I agree with you in many ways and will work on the things you mentioned. Thanks again :) |
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Critique Me