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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
  
| Just diagnosed today via scope at the vets. He's had a nagging cough that has started to become more persistent in the past week. Prior to a week ago he would cough a bit the first time we trotted and then he would be okay. This last week it became more persistent through a workout so off we went to the vet.
He is on clenbuterol 2x's/day for 10 days. We're going to start wetting his hay before we give it to him and already feed it to him in a tub so his nose isn't right in the shavings. Will avoid working in the dusty indoor.
I board and travel for work about once a month so I am trying to strike a balance here between caring for my horse and not making my barn owner jump through a ton of hoops, although she is supportive and willing to help. In about a month I'll be relocating much closer to the barn so I will be able to help out with him nightly as long as I'm not traveling. My biggest concern is he's stalled at night and our shavings have been really dusty lately. I can provide my own that have less dust (I'm thinking the pellets that you wet down) but if all the other stalls are bedded in the dusty stuff will it make much difference?
Thoughts on best supplements for lung support in a case like his.
Equi resp? Don't really have the extra money right now unless I have to, but as an asthmatic myself I'm familiar with nebulizers and how helpful they can be.
I've been giving him air power when we run and that seems to help a bit, although he coughed through it this week it at least seems to help him clear his airway faster.
Edited by OhMax 2015-04-13 6:42 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 226
| I use an Equi-Resp...... I have so far noticed recovering times are a lot quicker. I haven't ran anywhere yet since using it, but all 4 of my horses absolutely LOVE it!! Fall asleep and super relaxed!! My horse with allergies has not coughed once this pring and have been riding indoors for about 7 weeks. I am hoping it actually works. I orginally bought a couple of them as I have a horse with allergies and one with asthma. So far I am just using the EquiSilver in them. I talked to my vet and both of them said if that doesn't work for my horse with asthma then I can always add an abuterol type medicine to it to break up the mucous. |
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  Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | Look at DMG. Springtime Herbs carries the strongest and the Vitaflex also carries a version that's a tiny bit affordable. I have seen the DMG work wonders - a friend of mine wrote a testimonial on her TB on the Springtime site. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 494
Location: La Frontera | My horse was diagnosed with the same thing. We wet his hay and have him in the pasture as much as possible. When he has to be penned we wet the pen especially on the inside and around where he eats. My vet said not to put his hay in an enclosed feeder but as open a one as possible. He said no shavings whatsoever since they aggravate his lungs. I have no shavings in my trailer now and he seems a lot better. Whenever I take him to a race, I start clenbuterol (5 cc's) 2-3 days before and give him dex the morning of (usually 5 to 6 hours before we run). This program has worked really well for my horse.
Just like an asthmatic human, you have to find what works for your horse. |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Right - I'm an asthmatic myself so I certainly understand that.
The shavings thing will be tough, even if we adjust or take his out its a boarding barn and the rest of them will be bedded and kicking up dust. The issue with putting him on pasture board is the inability to wet his hay since they all share the same feeders and he'd only be grained once a day when I went out unless I went twice a day, which isn't an option right now (25mi one way) but may be when I get moved.
Vet recommended hay in the tub as it'll keep his nose out of the shavings.
As far as running him, he's actually been better at races than at home so far - no coughing there. I do give him Air Power on race days. The vet suggested that this may be because adrenaline can act as a mild bronchial dialator.
Currently he's on THE Muscle Mass with a breather blend. I've struggled with getting him to eat it and haven't seen any easing of the cough, but that
may be due to the inconsistentcy in him eating it and I'm not sure I want to keep him on it as it is a powder. I've been talking to an Oxy rep and she's recomended Oxy Max (as I'm also looking to switch him off exceed 6way) and bleeder stop, even though it is a powder and he's not a bleeder she thought it would a good boost to keep his airways healthy.
To top it off the inspection on the house I'm suppose to buying came back crappy, so maybe I'm moving closer maybe I'm not. Uuuuuugh hello stress! |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | Hope you get it all worked out!! My gelding coughed when we loped circles (just once each time we started) and the vet said he had some inflammation, but didn't mention it being IAD and thought it was allergies. Going to treat for allegies once I get him back, but I have a feeling in the back of my mind that it might be something more serious! Good luck with him and the house search!! |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| On the shavings for,the trailer i would get a sprayer and dampen those shavings so no dust. Give him a antihistimine. I boarded an old arab mare years ago did not know she had a breathing problem and she caught the crap from a horse that came back from a show in the winter. Vet came out said she might not make it but we got,her thru kept her out as much as possible. breathing problems and keeping them outside like in a run with a cover is the best thing. The mare who was 25 lived to 30 years and had the breatging problem really bad and that was before all the drugs they have now. |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Yeah I haven't been hauling with shavings at all lately. I may try the pellets since they are dampened and the turd burger has been peein in the trailer lately...I'll def be carrying a sprayer to shows where we stall to dampen those down for him |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| My vet suggests a low dose of banamine for inflammatory airway, with ventipulmin.
A friend of mine's vet perscribed a low dose of dex
Dex is a steroid, can cause founder, but may be the lesser of two evils since you cannot eliminate the allergic at night. I suggest speaking to your vet.
If THE products are not working, supposedly if you contact them within 45 days of purchase you can get your money back. I didn't know this, had no luck with their product, I called after the 45 days when I was told they had this guarantee. They refused to guarantee their product since it has been greater then 45 days, but you may be able to get your money back.
I would also look at making a pen outside, either purchasing panels, or using their own, if they have some. If they have an arena outside, I would see if he could stay the night there and be fed there.
Good luck |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Thanks guys! I've been doing a lot of reading this morning...
I did find this article http://www.thehorse.com/articles/28846/managing-inflammatory-airway...
Which would suggest that IAD is a lot more prevalent than folks know. It makes me SUPER curious and excited to get this sorted out for him because pattern wise he has been working so well this year.
We are looking at doing the stall swap dance to get him in the stall right by our roll up door, best ventilation in the place. Once my house situation is sorted out and the dust settles (haha, funny funny) on my bank account I think I'll be purchasing an equi resp. It seems like it will be helpful in situations where we can't managed the dust as well - like traveling and rodeos - and in the winter when we can only manage it so much. We did pretty good this winter in our indoor with salt and we're hoping to be able to put a better dust control product on this year so we can continue to work all winter.
Keeping him outside will be tricky from the perspective of both being a PITA to the barn owner and him accepting it without giving himself ulcers to top his issues off. My barn owner is on board with helping figure this out though so it's not off the table and once I'm living closer becomes a much more reasonable option.
I am hopeful that since Air Power has seemed to help while traveling that it'll continue to help, he'll be getting it prior to all work now.
Continuing to look through supps and try to sift through the good and bad - could be a full time job. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 494
Location: La Frontera | The other thing we looked at doing was buying a HayGain hay steamer. That was our backup plan if watering the hay down didn't work.
Perhaps you can move your horse to an end stall so there's only dusty shavings on one side of him versus two (or more). I bet if you asked that other horse's owner, they would let you dampen down those shavings as well. Worth a shot asking anyway. |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Well we played musical stalls today! I am so very thankful for my willing barn owner and boarders who were willing to swap some stalls to accommodate me.
He is now on an end stall right near a big door. It is the least dusty stall we have. Plus I found some wonderful bedding at Fleet Farm, it's more of a shredded wood vs a flake and then they sift it on top of it. There was a broken bale on the display at the store and I got some weird looks sticking my nose in there and then pulling some out and tossing it around. Very little dust when I put in the stall. Plus there's a hay feeder in there so he's not eating on the ground at all.
Honestly if that plus the incoming new supplement regimen doesn't help the next step is figuring out how to get him outside. Unfortunately the easiest place to do that won't give him a super good line of sight to other horses when they go in the barn at night, which does not make Diva Pony (his new nickname) happy.
House purchase is derailed, but pony is hopefully on the mend so we'll say today was a wash.
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 Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | ReCoup..strengthen lungs and clears them up. Used on the most expensive race horses. Been around for years. I know your wetting your hay don't use a bucket use a net.Bio-hesper C/K and probios. These are not steroids that mask the cough but heal the cough. |
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| cow pie - 2015-04-04 7:12 AM
ReCoup..strengthen lungs and clears them up. Used on the most expensive race horses. Been around for years. I know your wetting your hay don't use a bucket use a net.Bio-hesper C/K and probios. These are not steroids that mask the cough but heal the cough.
Recoup equine Boluses? I looked at the ingredients and they are pretty much the same as "Lung Aid" that's a very popular supplement. |
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| Read Funny Cides book. He had it severely and they tried everything (He was a Derby hope, so I mean everything). Ended up maintaining him very successfully with a nebulizer. He went on to win the first two legs of the Triple Crown and I think he would have won the Belmont if he had not gone rank. Tough bugger, but I was a big fan of his.
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Thanks guys, I'll check those out.
I'll likely be making the nebulizer investment as soon as my house situation is figured out...
Edited by OhMax 2015-04-04 10:25 AM
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | FLITASTIC - 2015-04-04 9:45 AM cow pie - 2015-04-04 7:12 AM ReCoup..strengthen lungs and clears them up. Used on the most expensive race horses. Been around for years. I know your wetting your hay don't use a bucket use a net.Bio-hesper C/K and probios. These are not steroids that mask the cough but heal the cough. Recoup equine Boluses? I looked at the ingredients and they are pretty much the same as "Lung Aid" that's a very popular supplement.
No, Re-Coup that you can get over in the South Pacific. They will ship state side. I have a friend that races in Hong Kong and Japan, she really likes the Re-Coup on the fillies. The flavoinoids are used to decrease oxidative stress on the tissues. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | OhMax - 2015-04-04 10:21 AM Thanks guys, I'll check those out. I'll likely be making the nebulizer investment as soon as my house situation is figured out...
Look at BigDees if you can go ahead and buy the nebulizer they have. Use some pipe insulation to take up the void space and start treating your horse. Get with your vet and try albuterol. I like racemic Epi as well on some horses it really helps. If you or your vet need any help on the meds end just PM me.
On the stall situation, make sure that the horse is on the windward side or end of the barn! You may have to move depending on mother nature.
Best wishes for your horse. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | Just thought I should put this out there...get a culture if at all possible. Treat with the appropiate antibiotics if they're needed and if its allergies the low dose dex that someone mentioned above works great during seasonal allergy time.
I'm cheap and have made my own hay steamer from a steam mop and various parts from ACE. Steamers sure helped a horse of mine.
I also think horses on round bales may have an increased risk of IAD. |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| No round bales here so no biggie there, but I agree I can see where that would be problematic,
The stall he's in now is the best option, the set up of the barn is an L with the indoor arena at the end of the short end and the sawdust pile at the end of the long end, so that outside stall is not an option as any breeze will kick up dust. He is currently on the 90* corner where there is a roll up door that'll stay open all summer unless it's raining sideways into it or something. Previously he was about 2/3 of the way up the long side closer to the sawdust pile, so this is an upgrade for sure.
I can start riding him again tomorrow as he had his hocks done too and I'm to check in with the vet early next week. If we don't see improvement wih the clenbuterol or he reverts back after the 10 days is up the next step is a trac wash and culture.
I want to stress that I trust my vet 100%. We've been working through a number of things over the past 2 years and he hasn't led me wrong yet. He is also one of the local track vets, so I feel I am in very good hands when it comes to breathing issues (he said working in the barns at the track actually give HIM IAD like symptoms). I've seen many folks recommend him on here when asked about central Iowa vets.
We talked over a variety of supplement options, but like was said on here as with human asthmatics, what works for one may not work for others, so I have his permission to experiment with the supplements. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | OhMax - 2015-04-04 12:07 PM No round bales here so no biggie there, but I agree I can see where that would be problematic, The stall he's in now is the best option, the set up of the barn is an L with the indoor arena at the end of the short end and the sawdust pile at the end of the long end, so that outside stall is not an option as any breeze will kick up dust. He is currently on the 90* corner where there is a roll up door that'll stay open all summer unless it's raining sideways into it or something. Previously he was about 2/3 of the way up the long side closer to the sawdust pile, so this is an upgrade for sure. I can start riding him again tomorrow as he had his hocks done too and I'm to check in with the vet early next week. If we don't see improvement wih the clenbuterol or he reverts back after the 10 days is up the next step is a trac wash and culture. I want to stress that I trust my vet 100%. We've been working through a number of things over the past 2 years and he hasn't led me wrong yet. He is also one of the local track vets, so I feel I am in very good hands when it comes to breathing issues (he said working in the barns at the track actually give HIM IAD like symptoms). I've seen many folks recommend him on here when asked about central Iowa vets. We talked over a variety of supplement options, but like was said on here as with human asthmatics, what works for one may not work for others, so I have his permission to experiment with the supplements.
Wish all were as fortunate as you to have a guy helpful as he sounds. I have a feeling this is going to be handled well. |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| They are fantastic, I feel very fortunate. |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Well poop on a Pringle.
Saturday night was his last dose of clenbuterol. Rode great yesterday. Tonight we had a little cough our first trot and then went to hacking up a storm as soon as we loped - and we had a dose of Airpower before we worked as well.
Vet gets a call first thing in the morning of course.
Anyone has experience with one who needs a maintenance dose of clenbuterol? Side effects? Better alternatives? Still considering equi resp but need to budget to settle down a bit unfortunately. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| OhMax - 2015-04-13 6:40 PM
Well poop on a Pringle.
Saturday night was his last dose of clenbuterol. Rode great yesterday. Tonight we had a little cough our first trot and then went to hacking up a storm as soon as we loped - and we had a dose of Airpower before we worked as well.
Vet gets a call first thing in the morning of course.
Anyone has experience with one who needs a maintenance dose of clenbuterol? Side effects? Better alternatives? Still considering equi resp but need to budget to settle down a bit unfortunately.
What is the vet scoping with, is he going right into the bronchioles, or just into the trachea?
My understanding is not all vets can go into the bronchioles, as the equipment is much more expensive.
If the vet cannot reach the bronchioles, I would find one who can, as this scope will tell you if the lungs are full of mucus.
You will also want a bronchiole lavage, and send it for culture, this will let you know what is growing in the lungs, without this step there is no point of doing anything else IMO until you treat the infection.
I would quit riding the horse for at least a month or two, just to allow the lungs to recover. I have one horse who went into respiratory distress last summer due to forest fires, I still haven't swung a leg on her, as my vet said absolutely no indoor riding as this will cause her to relapse.
You also said your horse is still being stalled indoors, I would be changing this immediately |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Believe you me if I felt I had a better environment for him, he'd be in it. Right now I have 2 options:
1. Turnout board. Dirt lot, dry hay, no grain, supps, or medication unless I can come out and do it. Which unfortunately that pesky job that pays for all this sends me out of state a few times month so I can't Always do it regularly, which is why I board in the first place.
2. Very well ventilated stall, minimal low dust bedding, wetted hay, grain with supplements and any meds the vet has him on and turnout all day.
Of those 2 choices myself, vet, and barn owner agree to work with #2. If I could work 9-5 everyday, never travel, and own 10 acres for him to roam on I would.
At the last visit the vet said a BAL would be the next step so that's already going to happen. I'm also looking into allergy testing per the suggestion of a very kind board member who PM'd me with her similar experience.
Trying not to feel hopeless like another season is shot before it begins. Horse is 16 or 17, I'd like to have one good consistent year on him...
Edited by OhMax 2015-04-14 6:52 AM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| OhMax - 2015-04-14 1:08 AM
Believe you me if I felt I had a better environment for him, he'd be in it. Right now I have 2 options:
1. Turnout board. Dirt lot, dry hay, no grain, supps, or medication unless I can come out and do it. Which unfortunately that pesky job that pays for all this sends me out of state a few times month so I can't Always do it regularly, which is why I board in the first place.
2. Very well ventilated stall, minimal low dust bedding, wetted hay, grain with supplements and any meds the vet has him on and turnout all day.
Of those 2 choices myself, vet, and barn owner agree to work with #2. If I could work 9-5 everyday, never travel, and own 10 acres for him to roam on I would.
At the last visit the vet said a BAL would be the next step so that's already going to happen. I'm also looking into allergy testing per the suggestion of a very kind board member who PM'd me with her similar experience.
Trying not to feel hopeless like another season is shot before it begins. Horse is 16 or 17, I'd like to have one good consistent year on him...
In previous posts you said the vet said a tracheal flush was next step
Now you are saying the vet said a bal is the next step, make sure it is a bal, a tracheal flush isn't going to help you |
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Inflammatory Airway Disease ***UPDATED and a new Clenbuterol question page 2***