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 Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
 
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | My horse is being legged up for this years nbha season by a 16 yo girl and when I'm watching her ride him he cross fires on the hind end at times. I would love to be able to help her stop this behavior. I automatically want to say oh maybe he's sore because he typically is in his back and has regular maintenance in his hocks, but there comes a time when horses work through that- they have been ridden for years without all this extra care my guy gets.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=926062737425107 Hope this video works it might not since our face books are private
Edited by FirstFirewater 2015-04-14 11:34 PM
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
   
Location: sunny california | did not work |
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 Saint Stacey
| My experience is that if they cross fire and leave their hocks out behind them, they are more than likely out in the sacroiliac. |
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 Northern Exposure
Posts: 3919
Location: Wasagaming, Manitoba, Canada | SKM - 2015-04-12 6:52 PM My experience is that if they cross fire and leave their hocks out behind them, they are more than likely out in the sacroiliac.
This is my experience as well.
The video did not work - the video privacy settings need to be set to "public". |
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 Night Chat Leader
Posts: 13150
Location: Home....Smiling M Farms | I've had 2 that crossfired when their hips were out. A trip to the chiro and they're both back in line. Hope this helps. :) |
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Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | https://www.facebook.com/lindsey.vetter/posts/10205061465753651
i I think I got it to where it's public. He gets regular chiro work |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | nope
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 Veteran
Posts: 138
| If the horse is sound and has no physical issues, a good exercise to work on is hip control. Yielding the hindquarter in both directions with forward motion.
A horse has to maintain forward motion in order to hold a lead. When I see a horse crossfire, a lot of the time the horse isn't driving forward with it's hip in. They typically are hollowed out, dropping a shoulder in, forcing a hip out, and losing all their forward.
Think of a lead starting in the horse's hindquarters. Cant see the video, so not sure if thats what is going on, but perhaps something to keep in mind while watching her work. |
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Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | I'm working on uploading it to YouTube. I'm so bad with technology I apologize. He was dropping his shoulder on second but has been better |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1119
| The video is private still :) |
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Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | http://youtu.be/Dxg2jmxYi9k I just changed it to public thanks Jen! |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | Stand behind your horse on an elevated surface if possible. Do you see symetry in the hindquarters. If not like the others above said suspect SI. If the horse is lame on flexion test treat the hocks/stifles first then the SI. The SI could be primary and most likely is if the horse has asymetrical hips/pelvis. Are you just starting to work the horse? If so, give it a couple of weeks to gain strength. Some are just very weak and cross fire due to their fitness. I see that most often in the two and three year olds in the round pen during starting. Not on a horse some what fit...think structural misalignments. |
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Veteran
Posts: 138
| The video just looks like the horse isnt using his hindquarters as much. He's maintaining a lead through the first barrel, but only changing in the front for 2nd and 3rd. Has he been taught to change leads after the first barrel? If not, perhaps slowing down after the first into a simple change, pushing the hip to the left and ask for a lead departure going into the second. If the horse changes hind lead through first to second, they he/she is kicking his body outwards... Continuing on and loping tight circles asking that horse to stay in lead around a barrel before moving forward. More than likely if this horse speeds up, he's probably not dragging a lead too much.
This is all, of course, if physical issues are ruled out. |
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Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | uno-dos-tres! - 2015-04-13 4:46 AM
Stand behind your horse on an elevated surface if possible. Do you see symetry in the hindquarters. If not like the others above said suspect SI. If the horse is lame on flexion test treat the hocks/stifles first then the SI. The SI could be primary and most likely is if the horse has asymetrical hips/pelvis. Are you just starting to work the horse? If so, give it a couple of weeks to gain strength. Some are just very weak and cross fire due to their fitness. I see that most often in the two and three year olds in the round pen during starting. Not on a horse some what fit...think structural misalignments.
He's never been lame in a flexion test. How do you go about fixing an SI issue? He has a prominent pelvic bone like most thoroughbreds do since he's appendix. |
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  Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | FirstFirewater - 2015-04-13 9:35 AM uno-dos-tres! - 2015-04-13 4:46 AM Stand behind your horse on an elevated surface if possible. Do you see symetry in the hindquarters. If not like the others above said suspect SI. If the horse is lame on flexion test treat the hocks/stifles first then the SI. The SI could be primary and most likely is if the horse has asymetrical hips/pelvis. Are you just starting to work the horse? If so, give it a couple of weeks to gain strength. Some are just very weak and cross fire due to their fitness. I see that most often in the two and three year olds in the round pen during starting. Not on a horse some what fit...think structural misalignments. He's never been lame in a flexion test. How do you go about fixing an SI issue? He has a prominent pelvic bone like most thoroughbreds do since he's appendix.
uno-dos-tres knows her stuff. I would have to agree with her. |
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Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | The more I'm reading about SI symptoms the more I think he may be having an issue with it. This will mean another vet call with injections  Which he hates but if that's what gets him out of pain |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | Does he have a "hunters bump"? My gelding had one and he tested positive for EPM and also had his SI injected a month ago. After both of those treatments he looks like a different horse. I can't comment on the cross firing though because this happened while my gelding was on a lay off. Just now legging him back up. |
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Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | Longneck - 2015-04-13 5:09 PM Does he have a "hunters bump"? My gelding had one and he tested positive for EPM and also had his SI injected a month ago. After both of those treatments he looks like a different horse. I can't comment on the cross firing though because this happened while my gelding was on a lay off. Just now legging him back up.
Yes he has the hunters bump. He doesn't have any symptoms of rpm though. |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | FirstFirewater - 2015-04-13 5:50 PM Longneck - 2015-04-13 5:09 PM Does he have a "hunters bump"? My gelding had one and he tested positive for EPM and also had his SI injected a month ago. After both of those treatments he looks like a different horse. I can't comment on the cross firing though because this happened while my gelding was on a lay off. Just now legging him back up. Yes he has the hunters bump. He doesn't have any symptoms of rpm though.
Well, that's fortunate! I'll have to guess it's his SI. Good luck! |
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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | SKM - 2015-04-11 7:52 PM
My experience is that if they cross fire and leave their hocks out behind them, they are more than likely out in the sacroiliac.
Agree |
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Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | FirstFirewater - 2015-04-12 6:00 PM
The more I'm reading about SI symptoms the more I think he may be having an issue with it. This will mean another vet call with injections Which he hates but if that's what gets him out of pain
Best thing I had done to my mare. |
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas | Honestly, I certainly wouldn't worry about injecting anything at this point. What I see is a young horse that hasn't learned the basics of keeping his body together yet. He loped the circle nicely and has a pretty, smooth way of going. Your friend should be breaking down to a trot between barrels to pick up the correct lead. Make sure he is soft through his body and strong through hos topline before doing much barrel work.
He's a pretty boy! Good luck with him!
Edited to say... what bit is she using, and is she riding with spurs?
Edited by grinandbareit 2015-04-13 9:22 PM
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Saint Stacey
| JMHO so take it or leave it but if your horse has a hunter bump, your chiro isn't doing you much good. Hunter bumps are caused by the SI being out. Put the SI back in and the bump goes away. Injecting without fixing the bump is a waste. Also, a chiro can't put the SI back in by using down pressure. I've only found one guy that can actually put the SI back in and he does it by lifting the back leg and making the horse hop over a step. Basically he puts the horse in a position to fix itself. Now I am not a chiro and maybe there is another way. If so, I haven't seen it yet though. This comment isn't meant to cause a debate. It's simply my own observation. As I said at the start, take it or leave it. |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | does he crossfire in the roundpen with no one on him? if so I might investigate pain. what about if you do all rights or all lefts? if the proplem goes away then that would tell you if he is just having proplems with the lead changes in the pattern like many babies do. otherwise it looks like baby stuff and i am the first one to the vet LOL
Edited by kwanatha 2015-04-14 7:08 AM
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Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | grinandbareit - 2015-04-13 9:15 PM
Honestly, I certainly wouldn't worry about injecting anything at this point. What I see is a young horse that hasn't learned the basics of keeping his body together yet. He loped the circle nicely and has a pretty, smooth way of going. Your friend should be breaking down to a trot between barrels to pick up the correct lead. Make sure he is soft through his body and strong through hos topline before doing much barrel work.
He's a pretty boy! Good luck with him!
Edited to say... what bit is she using, and is she riding with spurs?
He's 16 this year but supposedly trained young and ran futurity's until he was " blown up"- before I got him years ago he was used as a trail horse, mind you he's a flaming dragon down the trails! I'm not as worried now as he was rode last night in a general lesson and collected perfectly and maintained his leads all the way around- he was working in a smaller area though and it seems if he's hyper he gets a little out of control and messes his hind end lead up |
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Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | SKM - 2015-04-14 7:04 AM
JMHO so take it or leave it but if your horse has a hunter bump, your chiro isn't doing you much good. Hunter bumps are caused by the SI being out. Put the SI back in and the bump goes away. Injecting without fixing the bump is a waste. Also, a chiro can't put the SI back in by using down pressure. I've only found one guy that can actually put the SI back in and he does it by lifting the back leg and making the horse hop over a step. Basically he puts the horse in a position to fix itself. Now I am not a chiro and maybe there is another way. If so, I haven't seen it yet though. This comment isn't meant to cause a debate. It's simply my own observation. As I said at the start, take it or leave it.
Would you please pm me who your chiro is? I will be checking with my chiropractor about doing this to hopefully keep him from even wanting to switch his hind end around and keep him feeling good. |
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Go For It!
Location: Texas | FirstFirewater - 2015-04-14 11:24 AM
grinandbareit - 2015-04-13 9:15 PM
Honestly, I certainly wouldn't worry about injecting anything at this point. What I see is a young horse that hasn't learned the basics of keeping his body together yet. He loped the circle nicely and has a pretty, smooth way of going. Your friend should be breaking down to a trot between barrels to pick up the correct lead. Make sure he is soft through his body and strong through hos topline before doing much barrel work.
He's a pretty boy! Good luck with him!
Edited to say... what bit is she using, and is she riding with spurs?
He's 16 this year but supposedly trained young and ran futurity's until he was " blown up"- before I got him years ago he was used as a trail horse, mind you he's a flaming dragon down the trails! I'm not as worried now as he was rode last night in a general lesson and collected perfectly and maintained his leads all the way around- he was working in a smaller area though and it seems if he's hyper he gets a little out of control and messes his hind end lead up
Well 16 definitely isn't young, lol. It is so hard to say that it is soundness with out seeing him in other places. At 16 I probably wouldn't be doing any barrel work with him, unless he just doesn't know his job. If he does his job then just keep him legged up. Lots of collection exercises to keep his topline strong, and maybe a series of Adequan to help him maintain his joints. Plenty of bending and stretching to keep him soft and flexible. Swimming would be good too.
Good luck!
Edited by grinandbareit 2015-04-14 11:31 AM
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Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | kwanatha - 2015-04-14 7:05 AM
does he crossfire in the roundpen with no one on him? if so I might investigate pain. what about if you do all rights or all lefts? if the proplem goes away then that would tell you if he is just having proplems with the lead changes in the pattern like many babies do. otherwise it looks like baby stuff and i am the first one to the vet LOL
He does not usually crossfire in the round pen or lounging even in a larger arena. His right turns in general seem smoother than his left and I thought about switching him to be a lefty at first barrel. He has had the bad habit of dropping his shoulder into 2nd barrel and not really bending much. He was kind of sticking his ribs into the barrel anticipating it l, but with some work and drills he's gotten better. I'm thinking more drills and trying to really engage his hindquarters |
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 Ms. Marine
Posts: 4641
Location: Texas | Leo - 2015-04-12 5:01 PM
I've had 2 that crossfired when their hips were out. A trip to the chiro and they're both back in line. Hope this helps. :)
This. |
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Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | Ok so he had no cross firing episodes last night at all in a basic arena work lesson. Tonight we really worked on engaging his hind end and switching leads with flying lead changes---- right after that we had her run him and it was BEAUTIFUL! Of course I didn't record it... But after that she worked more pattern work and he got so hot he wasn't listening and wouldn't pick up the leads on his hind end as if his brain was just OVER IT. Can't say I blame him. I sincerely want to thank you for the advice. I was just noticing today that his hunters bump is nearly invisible due to building up more muscle, I'm very pleased to see this.
ETA: I think we will continue to work on the lead changes but keep the lessons shorter and no more pattern work as I believe he knows his job he just needs specific areas tuned up.
Edited by FirstFirewater 2015-04-14 11:42 PM
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | Interesting read....mine will crossfire when roundpenning or loping, but won't under saddle. But he also gets worked up when RP-ing and lunging and doesn't like it in general and gets really worked up and can get hot so maybe it IS a brain thing. Having a Chiro out soon as I know he responds well to that. Mine just turned 17 and just had hocks and SI injected so I really hope it's not pain!! |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | FirstFirewater - 2015-04-14 11:38 PM Ok so he had no cross firing episodes last night at all in a basic arena work lesson. Tonight we really worked on engaging his hind end and switching leads with flying lead changes---- right after that we had her run him and it was BEAUTIFUL! Of course I didn't record it... But after that she worked more pattern work and he got so hot he wasn't listening and wouldn't pick up the leads on his hind end as if his brain was just OVER IT. Can't say I blame him. I sincerely want to thank you for the advice. I was just noticing today that his hunters bump is nearly invisible due to building up more muscle, I'm very pleased to see this. ETA: I think we will continue to work on the lead changes but keep the lessons shorter and no more pattern work as I believe he knows his job he just needs specific areas tuned up.
He's 16, possibly blown up, did everything you asked him to, then made a run exactly like you wanted him to.....then you made him practice more?
...I would blow right back up too. |
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | rachellyn80 - 2015-04-15 1:19 PM
FirstFirewater - 2015-04-14 11:38 PM Ok so he had no cross firing episodes last night at all in a basic arena work lesson. Tonight we really worked on engaging his hind end and switching leads with flying lead changes---- right after that we had her run him and it was BEAUTIFUL! Of course I didn't record it... But after that she worked more pattern work and he got so hot he wasn't listening and wouldn't pick up the leads on his hind end as if his brain was just OVER IT. Can't say I blame him. I sincerely want to thank you for the advice. I was just noticing today that his hunters bump is nearly invisible due to building up more muscle, I'm very pleased to see this. ETA: I think we will continue to work on the lead changes but keep the lessons shorter and no more pattern work as I believe he knows his job he just needs specific areas tuned up.
He's 16, possibly blown up, did everything you asked him to, then made a run exactly like you wanted him to.....then you made him practice more?
...I would blow right back up too.
Exactly. |
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | rachellyn80 - 2015-04-15 10:19 AM FirstFirewater - 2015-04-14 11:38 PM Ok so he had no cross firing episodes last night at all in a basic arena work lesson. Tonight we really worked on engaging his hind end and switching leads with flying lead changes---- right after that we had her run him and it was BEAUTIFUL! Of course I didn't record it... But after that she worked more pattern work and he got so hot he wasn't listening and wouldn't pick up the leads on his hind end as if his brain was just OVER IT. Can't say I blame him. I sincerely want to thank you for the advice. I was just noticing today that his hunters bump is nearly invisible due to building up more muscle, I'm very pleased to see this. ETA: I think we will continue to work on the lead changes but keep the lessons shorter and no more pattern work as I believe he knows his job he just needs specific areas tuned up. He's 16, possibly blown up, did everything you asked him to, then made a run exactly like you wanted him to.....then you made him practice more?
...I would blow right back up too.
This ^^^
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Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | Anniemae - 2015-04-15 1:18 PM
rachellyn80 - 2015-04-15 10:19 AM FirstFirewater - 2015-04-14 11:38 PM Ok so he had no cross firing episodes last night at all in a basic arena work lesson. Tonight we really worked on engaging his hind end and switching leads with flying lead changes---- right after that we had her run him and it was BEAUTIFUL! Of course I didn't record it... But after that she worked more pattern work and he got so hot he wasn't listening and wouldn't pick up the leads on his hind end as if his brain was just OVER IT. Can't say I blame him. I sincerely want to thank you for the advice. I was just noticing today that his hunters bump is nearly invisible due to building up more muscle, I'm very pleased to see this. ETA: I think we will continue to work on the lead changes but keep the lessons shorter and no more pattern work as I believe he knows his job he just needs specific areas tuned up. He's 16, possibly blown up, did everything you asked him to, then made a run exactly like you wanted him to.....then you made him practice more?
...I would blow right back up too.
I get your points but they had a barrel racing lesson his very first run was beautiful so do you just quit and say oh lesson is over? Well here we don't... He wasn't ran hard he did like two more lope throughs before they completely stopped the pattern work. If he was running at a show he may run expos, youth and open. He's not doing more than that. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| FirstFirewater - 2015-04-15 5:00 PM
Anniemae - 2015-04-15 1:18 PM
rachellyn80 - 2015-04-15 10:19 AM FirstFirewater - 2015-04-14 11:38 PM Ok so he had no cross firing episodes last night at all in a basic arena work lesson. Tonight we really worked on engaging his hind end and switching leads with flying lead changes---- right after that we had her run him and it was BEAUTIFUL! Of course I didn't record it... But after that she worked more pattern work and he got so hot he wasn't listening and wouldn't pick up the leads on his hind end as if his brain was just OVER IT. Can't say I blame him. I sincerely want to thank you for the advice. I was just noticing today that his hunters bump is nearly invisible due to building up more muscle, I'm very pleased to see this. ETA: I think we will continue to work on the lead changes but keep the lessons shorter and no more pattern work as I believe he knows his job he just needs specific areas tuned up. He's 16, possibly blown up, did everything you asked him to, then made a run exactly like you wanted him to.....then you made him practice more?
...I would blow right back up too.
I get your points but they had a barrel racing lesson his very first run was beautiful so do you just quit and say oh lesson is over? Well here we don't... He wasn't ran hard he did like two more lope throughs before they completely stopped the pattern work. If he was running at a show he may run expos, youth and open. He's not doing more than that.
Yes I would, then I would work on something else.
Barrel racing lessons don't have to be strictly about the barrels, you can work one barrel, circles, pylons, dry work,
And horsemanship, when to call it quits, and focus on something else
I watched the first video, I would get X-rays of his hocks, wringing his tail like he does during turns, I would say he is in pain.
Flexion tests are not 100% accurate, I have a gelding had very little cartilage in pastern and coffin as a 6 yr old, kept him sound by injecting, at age of 18 passed flexion test with flying colors by a vet who never knew his history.
Blown up horses you start them gradually, no expos, one run events, this is how they regain their confidence, you don't run them into the ground.
Edited by cheryl makofka 2015-04-15 10:45 PM
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 Crazy Chicken Chick
Posts: 36132
| FirstFirewater - 2015-04-15 5:00 PM Anniemae - 2015-04-15 1:18 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-04-15 10:19 AM FirstFirewater - 2015-04-14 11:38 PM Ok so he had no cross firing episodes last night at all in a basic arena work lesson. Tonight we really worked on engaging his hind end and switching leads with flying lead changes---- right after that we had her run him and it was BEAUTIFUL! Of course I didn't record it... But after that she worked more pattern work and he got so hot he wasn't listening and wouldn't pick up the leads on his hind end as if his brain was just OVER IT. Can't say I blame him. I sincerely want to thank you for the advice. I was just noticing today that his hunters bump is nearly invisible due to building up more muscle, I'm very pleased to see this. ETA: I think we will continue to work on the lead changes but keep the lessons shorter and no more pattern work as I believe he knows his job he just needs specific areas tuned up. He's 16, possibly blown up, did everything you asked him to, then made a run exactly like you wanted him to.....then you made him practice more?
...I would blow right back up too. I get your points but they had a barrel racing lesson his very first run was beautiful so do you just quit and say oh lesson is over? Well here we don't... He wasn't ran hard he did like two more lope throughs before they completely stopped the pattern work. If he was running at a show he may run expos, youth and open. He's not doing more than that.
Yes. Especially on a horse like this. He felt like he was being punished for doing everything right. If he did what was asked, correctly, then walk around on a loose rein, or long trot, or whatever you regime you use to fit one up, but once they correctly do what I'm asking on the pattern, they are DONE on the pattern for that day. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1343
Location: Oklahoma | cheryl makofka - 2015-04-15 10:43 PM FirstFirewater - 2015-04-15 5:00 PM Anniemae - 2015-04-15 1:18 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-04-15 10:19 AM FirstFirewater - 2015-04-14 11:38 PM Ok so he had no cross firing episodes last night at all in a basic arena work lesson. Tonight we really worked on engaging his hind end and switching leads with flying lead changes---- right after that we had her run him and it was BEAUTIFUL! Of course I didn't record it... But after that she worked more pattern work and he got so hot he wasn't listening and wouldn't pick up the leads on his hind end as if his brain was just OVER IT. Can't say I blame him. I sincerely want to thank you for the advice. I was just noticing today that his hunters bump is nearly invisible due to building up more muscle, I'm very pleased to see this. ETA: I think we will continue to work on the lead changes but keep the lessons shorter and no more pattern work as I believe he knows his job he just needs specific areas tuned up. He's 16, possibly blown up, did everything you asked him to, then made a run exactly like you wanted him to.....then you made him practice more?
...I would blow right back up too. I get your points but they had a barrel racing lesson his very first run was beautiful so do you just quit and say oh lesson is over? Well here we don't... He wasn't ran hard he did like two more lope throughs before they completely stopped the pattern work. If he was running at a show he may run expos, youth and open. He's not doing more than that. Yes I would, then I would work on something else. Barrel racing lessons don't have to be strictly about the barrels, you can work one barrel, circles, pylons, dry work, And horsemanship, when to call it quits, and focus on something else I watched the first video, I would get X-rays of his hocks, wringing his tail like he does during turns, I would say he is in pain. Flexion tests are not 100% accurate, I have a gelding had very little cartilage in pastern and coffin as a 6 yr old, kept him sound by injecting, at age of 18 passed flexion test with flying colors by a vet who never knew his history. Blown up horses you start them gradually, no expos, one run events, this is how they regain their confidence, you don't run them into the ground.
This exactly. If you ran him and he worked great, STOP working him. Go back around the barrels at a walk if anything. Always quit on a good note! And at events make ONE RUN and no exhibitions. |
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Saint Stacey
| FirstFirewater - 2015-04-15 4:00 PM
Anniemae - 2015-04-15 1:18 PM
rachellyn80 - 2015-04-15 10:19 AM FirstFirewater - 2015-04-14 11:38 PM Ok so he had no cross firing episodes last night at all in a basic arena work lesson. Tonight we really worked on engaging his hind end and switching leads with flying lead changes---- right after that we had her run him and it was BEAUTIFUL! Of course I didn't record it... But after that she worked more pattern work and he got so hot he wasn't listening and wouldn't pick up the leads on his hind end as if his brain was just OVER IT. Can't say I blame him. I sincerely want to thank you for the advice. I was just noticing today that his hunters bump is nearly invisible due to building up more muscle, I'm very pleased to see this. ETA: I think we will continue to work on the lead changes but keep the lessons shorter and no more pattern work as I believe he knows his job he just needs specific areas tuned up. He's 16, possibly blown up, did everything you asked him to, then made a run exactly like you wanted him to.....then you made him practice more?
...I would blow right back up too.
I get your points but they had a barrel racing lesson his very first run was beautiful so do you just quit and say oh lesson is over? Well here we don't... He wasn't ran hard he did like two more lope throughs before they completely stopped the pattern work. If he was running at a show he may run expos, youth and open. He's not doing more than that.
Yes, you do quit. ALWAYS look for a place to stop. If it's a paying customer, discount the fee for stopping so soon and explain why. Keeping a barrel horses sanity and them wanting to do their job is more important than a few bucks. Then next time you do flat work since the rider needs it and you keep the horse off the pattern. |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | SKM - 2015-04-16 4:43 AM
FirstFirewater - 2015-04-15 4:00 PM
Anniemae - 2015-04-15 1:18 PM
rachellyn80 - 2015-04-15 10:19 AM FirstFirewater - 2015-04-14 11:38 PM Ok so he had no cross firing episodes last night at all in a basic arena work lesson. Tonight we really worked on engaging his hind end and switching leads with flying lead changes---- right after that we had her run him and it was BEAUTIFUL! Of course I didn't record it... But after that she worked more pattern work and he got so hot he wasn't listening and wouldn't pick up the leads on his hind end as if his brain was just OVER IT. Can't say I blame him. I sincerely want to thank you for the advice. I was just noticing today that his hunters bump is nearly invisible due to building up more muscle, I'm very pleased to see this. ETA: I think we will continue to work on the lead changes but keep the lessons shorter and no more pattern work as I believe he knows his job he just needs specific areas tuned up. He's 16, possibly blown up, did everything you asked him to, then made a run exactly like you wanted him to.....then you made him practice more?
...I would blow right back up too.
I get your points but they had a barrel racing lesson his very first run was beautiful so do you just quit and say oh lesson is over? Well here we don't... He wasn't ran hard he did like two more lope throughs before they completely stopped the pattern work. If he was running at a show he may run expos, youth and open. He's not doing more than that. Yes, you do quit. ALWAYS look for a place to stop. If it's a paying customer, discount the fee for stopping so soon and explain why. Keeping a barrel horses sanity and them wanting to do their job is more important than a few bucks. Then next time you do flat work since the rider needs it and you keep the horse off the pattern.
agreed. I drove 1.25 hr to lessons and they would last 10-40 minutes. Trainer would try to discount fees but I insisted on paying full pony. Not her fault my horse was telling me he had enough in 10 minutes, I still booked a full spot. that horse came around in his own time and got over his attitude. Maybe because he knew we were listening to him, which is how we found out he had a stifle problem and got him fixed. I am so glad I did not push him and lose his trust. He never blew up with me he just would stop and be lazy. A previous trainer would push him and well he got bucked off a couple times.
Listen to your horse he is telling you something. just about any horse with almost any problem can be sound for a short period. we can all keep it together when we have to. Then we just break as we can not take it anymore. I can not tell you how many people/ trainers/vets told me my horse was perfectly sound and just needed brain surgery. |
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| You are riding an experienced 16 year old horse and you need to save the arena drama without the constant nagging while learning to ride this horse. You need to think of him as a car with 190,000 miles on it and not burn rubber at every stop sign you take off from or over use him just because you can. If you limit the unnecessary expos, warmup pens and deicide who is going to get to make their run that day .. he may last another 2-4 years. Like old cars .. he is showing you he is in the process of falling apart!!
Keeping an older experienced horse that is arena sour legged up should be done out in a pasture and never in an arena. You can take long straight lopes in the correct lead and change leads left to right and move horse over in both directions by lifting a rein and a leg cue without having a death grip on the saddle horn. Do this with split reins while riding two handed because your barrel rein in the video is too short and should be corrected.
Your horse has already shown you that he knows his business when ran at speed without interference from a rider.
I will give you things to look for that Cervi does consistently with all of her horses repetitively .. after you look at this video several times watching for my highlights .. go compare what is happening in your video at a lope.
Cervi is sitting deep and quiet in the saddle while riding two handed and sets up the first barrel by NOT riding to the barrel .. she lines up 30 ft out while using the extra 1/4 turn to make a regular barrel turn because the first barrel has 1 1/4 turns in it.
Watch Cervi's hands .. she lifts the inside rein to move Stingray off the barrel and then bumps her with the same inside rein to make her turn while leaving slack in the outside rein not to interfere with her head.
Going to 2nd .. no using reins for balance by pulling on them ... she is all forward motion and focused where she is going at full speed, switches to riding two handed to square herself and horse up and gets ready to shorten up on the inside rein ... makes her inside rein lift to keep Stingray off the barrel while the other hand holds the saddle horn. Notice Cervi and Stingray know the same cue which is now a habit ... once Cervi takes the lift on the inside rein off she bumps her with the same rein to start the turn and help her complete the turn and be in the correct position to run to 3rd.
Then the sequence starts all over again running to and around the 3rd, Notice the slack reins with Cervi's lean forward and a wave of the hands asking Stingray to run hellbent for leather to beat the clock ...
At no time is Stingrays face turned the opposite way asking for the wrong lead due to short barrel reins and lazy hands and she does not have to fight to make a lead correction while rating the barrel late and never gaining her rear lead when turning the barrel in an act of desperation.
Watch closely how Cervi and Stingray react to each other because they know what is coming ... this is the greatest example of using anticipation for the given cue to shave the paint off the barrels ...
https://youtu.be/8OkG8tkMKtE
You can also watch her NFR world record run in that tiny arena and see everything happens the same way in the same sequence ..
Everyone picks up some bad habits they are totally unaware ... so make a few rider corrections to get in rhythm with the horse and enjoy this old horse that is giving you his heart!!
Now go have some fun in the pasture ...
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-04-16 9:54 PM You are riding an experienced 16 year old horse and you need to save the arena drama without the constant nagging while learning to ride this horse. You need to think of him as a car with 190,000 miles on it and not burn rubber at every stop sign you take off from or over use him just because you can. If you limit the unnecessary expos, warmup pens and deicide who is going to get to make their run that day .. he may last another 2-4 years. Like old cars .. he is showing you he is in the process of falling apart!! Keeping an older experienced horse that is arena sour legged up should be done out in a pasture and never in an arena. You can take long straight lopes in the correct lead and change leads left to right and move horse over in both directions by lifting a rein and a leg cue without having a death grip on the saddle horn. Do this with split reins while riding two handed because your barrel rein in the video is too short and should be corrected. Your horse has already shown you that he knows his business when ran at speed without interference from a rider. I will give you things to look for that Cervi does consistently with all of her horses repetitively .. after you look at this video several times watching for my highlights .. go compare what is happening in your video at a lope. Cervi is sitting deep and quiet in the saddle while riding two handed and sets up the first barrel by NOT riding to the barrel .. she lines up 30 ft out while using the extra 1/4 turn to make a regular barrel turn because the first barrel has 1 1/4 turns in it. Watch Cervi's hands .. she lifts the inside rein to move Stingray off the barrel and then bumps her with the same inside rein to make her turn while leaving slack in the outside rein not to interfere with her head. Going to 2nd .. no using reins for balance by pulling on them ... she is all forward motion and focused where she is going at full speed, switches to riding two handed to square herself and horse up and gets ready to shorten up on the inside rein ... makes her inside rein lift to keep Stingray off the barrel while the other hand holds the saddle horn. Notice Cervi and Stingray know the same cue which is now a habit ... once Cervi takes the lift on the inside rein off she bumps her with the same rein to start the turn and help her complete the turn and be in the correct position to run to 3rd. Then the sequence starts all over again running to and around the 3rd, Notice the slack reins with Cervi's lean forward and a wave of the hands asking Stingray to run hellbent for leather to beat the clock ... At no time is Stingrays face turned the opposite way asking for the wrong lead due to short barrel reins and lazy hands and she does not have to fight to make a lead correction while rating the barrel late and never gaining her rear lead when turning the barrel in an act of desperation. Watch closely how Cervi and Stingray react to each other because they know what is coming ... this is the greatest example of using anticipation for the given cue to shave the paint off the barrels ... https://youtu.be/8OkG8tkMKtE You can also watch her NFR world record run in that tiny arena and see everything happens the same way in the same sequence .. Everyone picks up some bad habits they are totally unaware ... so make a few rider corrections to get in rhythm with the horse and enjoy this old horse that is giving you his heart!! Now go have some fun in the pasture ...
Edited by Bibliafarm 2015-04-17 7:43 AM
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How do you stop cross firing on hind end? UPDATE!!!!!!! Pg 2