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What Name?
Posts: 1994
   
| I have personally been struggling on and off for the last year with my faith. I've been trying to re-establish it, and have made huge strides. Making time for church, praying, reading my bible and actually becoming aquainted with the word of God.
There are some parts that I truly have problems with and I think these issues are undermining my ability to have full faith. So I'm seeking help from my sisters, who maybe can show me the light. Give me some advice.
I personally struggle with some of the wrathful parts in the bible. When God punishish huge groups of people, for the transgressions of a few. Like, when God kills the first born of egypt. I know he did it to punish the adults, but the children paid the price of the sin. I dunno, it's hard for me. But I'm trying.
I also have a really hard time with the parts about woman. Like, not having a voice in church. It being sinful for women to lead men. Does anyone else have a hard time with this?
In such a forward thinking day and age, it's hard for me to digest a limit to my voice and abilities simply because of my sex. Even though it's in the bible, and I know in my heart I can't pick parts to choose to believe and other to discard. It's all or nothing.
Just a personal trial I'm dealing with today. Thanks for listening!
Edited by americanpride08 2015-04-14 9:53 AM
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 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | Hey, I understand where you are coming from! I personally have a hard time with the book of Revelation...it scares me!
I think a lot of parts in the Bible, especially the first born in Egypt being killed, had to do with the culture back then. The first born, son especially, inherited the largest portion of the family estate, they were the ones who were to carry on the family name. But, it is also why the Israelites were made to consecrate their first born sons. But also the Egyptians wouldn't listen to lesser forms of punishment. God isn't hard hearted or cruel, but He does give you a chance to change, if not then He lets you go on in your own free will until death ultimately occurs (I believe the book of Romans would be a good place to read about that).
As far as women in the church, I believe that goes back to Adam and Eve. Adam was formed first, then Eve, but again there can be no more Adams without Eves (man is born of woman). But, also the culture of the time, women were pretty much considered nothing, they were a person to cook, clean, and bear children...and often men had more than one wife. However, if you read the Bible thoroughly, women played a huge roll...Rahab, from the book of Joshua, was in the line of King David, as was Ruth in the book of Ruth, which in turn was in the line of Jesus. Just like there could be no Jesus if Mary hadn't accepted the plan God had made for her. Many people think of Mary as a grown woman when she had Jesus, but according to the times, she was more than likely no more than a teenager, and can't you imagine how scary that would be, especially in that day and age!
But I feel that the reasonings of the Bible need no explanation, as the Bible is the word of God handed down through his prophets. I think the deal with the women being subject to man has more to due with respect; as it explains in the New Testament, Christ is the head of man, just as man is the head of his wife. Look at it as you have your President, then Vice President, then Speaker of the House, then Senators and Legislators, and so on down the line. There are different levels of authority.
I can understand wanting explanations, but sometimes it is better to trust God in what was said, and then sometimes the explanation will come later.
But this was much longer than it was intended to be, but it never hurts to ponder or have questions...that is how people learn. I am by no mean an expert, but would be glad to have you PM me or ask me any questions you like! If you want, PM your email address and I would love to discuss further. I'll be at work most of today, but will be back on this evening. Blessing! | |
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas |
One of the first things that we have to remember is that God loves us... ALWAYS. Sometimes I think that it is hard to read the Old Testament first, especially for a young Christian (as in young in their journey). I can certainly address some of your concerns though...
We must remember that God's wisdom is infinite. If the kings in the OT would have been obedient when God told them to take out everyone, we wouldn't be dealing with the Muslims extremists, trying to take over the world, that we deal with today.
As for being a woman. God made us to be the caregivers of all generations. I LOVE my role as a woman and I am past the point of MAKING people hear me. I accept who I am in Him and I am so glad I am not a man, lol. No offense to men.
That being said... read Luke... it is the story of Jesus. Get the red-letter version so you can see that the words were His. Learn who's you are and why you are His. Get in a quiet place when you read and put yourself in the story. Pretend you were right there with Jesus and the multitudes. When you get through the New Testament, then go back and read the history of where we were before Jesus came. You will better understand God's love for us if you do it that way.
I think about how, with each child, I learned more and more. By the time the last one got a little older, I was a way better parent. Maybe it was the same with God. Many generations had to pass away before He said to Himself, I need to try a new way with this next bunch. Hello Jesus!
I think we all struggle with faith sometimes. I know I went through the same thing when I was in my early 20's. I was really searching for answers and finding little consolation in the ones that I was getting. Never stop SEEKING ANSWERS and never stop ASKING FOR WISDOM. Our life in Christ is a spiritual journey and one that we will forever be on. It is the never ending journey. I love where God has brought me, and the journey has helped to build character in me. Keep searching and keep reading. I will join you in praying that God will give you wisdom in these things and faith that cannot be shaken. I'm excited that you are seeking answers in His word and asking questions! God has big plans for you little sister and He will see them come to pass. Keep your heart and your mind open to Him.
God Bless!
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 557
Location: Kansas and loving it | The death of the first born Egyptian is Pharaoh fault. Moses told him that the last curse would come from his own lips. Ramses then declared the first born Israelite should be killed. The edict then turned to the male children of Egypt. Also, a lamb must be slaughtered and the blood brushed on the doorway as a sign of faithful followers inside. | |
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What Name?
Posts: 1994
| Thank you for taking the time to answer. It's hard in todays world, when even our music has turned sinful and our children are raised in societal sin.
Doubts plague me and I know through Jesus I will over come them. Faith is hard, and I would think if it were easy it wouldn't be worth it. Sometimes, it just helps to know other people face the same fears I face. To know it was overcome and that, with Jesus I too can overcome this trial.
My aunt posted something rather intense on my facebook when I said something about people voting for hiliary simply because she's a woman. It was a long the lines of, ' a woman leading this country will lead us into evil.' It was kind of scary in all honesty. Intense in belief. The kind of belief I usually associate with " RADICALS". But I'm trying to understand her views and maybe become more familiar wit WHY she feels this way. As I haven't come across that many versus about woman yet. I've just begun reading my bible again.
I respect men, especially my father, my brother and other manly figures in my life. Ultimately I respect Jesus and our Lord in heaven. It just kind of got the wheels going though, about how so much in our culture has changed.
Thank you for taking the time to help me through this. Sometimes I have to stop and pray intensely to Jesus to reach out and calm my fears. But I know, as my faith grows, the shadow of my fears will become smaller.
Edited by americanpride08 2015-04-14 11:38 AM
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Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| I love this post! I have some stuff to add, but no time right now, I just want to make sure I keep up with this- great questions from an intelligent christian! All I can say for now is that I had the same issues as you did but as I read specifically about what Jesus did and stay away from the parts that man thought God did I am better off! Thank goodness we have the New Testament- we'd all be terrorists if we only had the Old!! :) | |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I personally can't stand quite a lot of what Paul wrote, so I ignore it. Some of my not nice ideas about him aside, and even taking his conversion at face value, he was writing to churches in the context of the times, so those stupid rules weren't like commands from God--we had women disciples, after all--it was more like helpful hints to grow the church within their society. | |
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Go For It!
Location: Texas | Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-14 11:41 AM
I personally can't stand quite a lot of what Paul wrote, so I ignore it. Some of my not nice ideas about him aside, and even taking his conversion at face value, he was writing to churches in the context of the times, so those stupid rules weren't like commands from God--we had women disciples, after all--it was more like helpful hints to grow the church within their society.
We have to be careful about picking and choosing... If it's in there, it's because God allowed it in there. I may not LIKE everything I read, but that doesn't necessarily make it untrue. What, specifically, bothers you about what Paul wrote?
Edited by grinandbareit 2015-04-14 11:47 AM
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 BHW New Catch of the Day
Posts: 9884
Location: Missouri | It was a different time then and I don't believe God expects us to continue to live as in the biblical days. That being said I also know that I'm not supposed to pick and choose what things I want to believe and what things I don't. I either believe it all and adhear to it all.
I have a hard time too sometimes.......just continue to have faith and let him lead your heart. | |
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What Name?
Posts: 1994
| Corinthians is kind of intense for me... It's so harsh. Granted most of my bible study is from when I was a child. I'm relearning everything from an adult perspective now, starting at the beginning and working my way through the lessons. So other than the famous versus and what I've studied the last few months in church, I'm still learning A LOT. And will continue to do so.
I will be baptized this summer. =) I'm pretty excited about it. My grandmothers death last year set this ball in motion for me. She was such a Godly woman, that I loved very very very much. I can't imagine her going anywhere but to heaven, and I have no doubt she is there. She sealed my need for faith. Because I want to walk in heaven with her again one day. | |
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 Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Scripture does not call for women to be weak. It's calling for men to be strong. It also gives men the responsibility of loving his wife as Jesus loved the church. That's calling for a pretty high bar. | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 518
| Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-14 10:41 AM I personally can't stand quite a lot of what Paul wrote, so I ignore it. Some of my not nice ideas about him aside, and even taking his conversion at face value, he was writing to churches in the context of the times, so those stupid rules weren't like commands from God--we had women disciples, after all--it was more like helpful hints to grow the church within their society.
I don't want to sound like I am challenging what you say because I am genuinely interested in you're answer. But the Bible was written by God, through man, but it is still God's Word, right? So how can you ignore some parts of the Bible and believe others? I actually find what Paul writes quite helpful and comforting! | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 806
Location: Arkansas | I would highly suggest looking into finding a Bible Study Fellowship group in your area. I was in a really dark place, and was asked to attend by a coworker. I was raised in a very religious family and attended church every Sunday but I still had a very weak faith. I began attending the BSF which studies the Bible. I understood so much better and more than I ever could through church or sunday school alone. Someone could preach it to me, try to explain it to me, but it wasn't until I was digging into it and had some help that I could form my own opinions based on what was in front of me in the Bible that I did not understand before. | |
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What Name?
Posts: 1994
| I'm glad everyones joining with this conversation. I love reading peoples views! I'm glad I'm not the only one who has climbed this hill. I always like perspective on everything that I think. I always feel better when I come to my conclusions after seeing things through other peoples eyes.
As for God wishing for us to live in the biblical days.. I swear little house on the prairie had it right.! Funny I should be named after both Laura and Cassandra on that show...
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 713
Location: ND | americanpride08 - 2015-04-14 11:03 AM
Thank you for taking the time to answer. It's hard in todays world, when even our music has turned sinful and our children are raised in societal sin.
Doubts plague me and I know through Jesus I will over come them. Faith is hard, and I would think if it were easy it wouldn't be worth it. Sometimes, it just helps to know other people face the same fears I face. To know it was overcome and that, with Jesus I too can overcome this trial.
My aunt posted something rather intense on my facebook when I said something about people voting for hiliary simply because she's a woman. It was a long the lines of, ' a woman leading this country will lead us into evil.' It was kind of scary in all honesty. Intense in belief. The kind of belief I usually associate with " RADICALS". But I'm trying to understand her views and maybe become more familiar wit WHY she feels this way. As I haven't come across that many versus about woman yet. I've just begun reading my bible again.
I respect men, especially my father, my brother and other manly figures in my life. Ultimately I respect Jesus and our Lord in heaven. It just kind of got the wheels going though, about how so much in our culture has changed.
Thank you for taking the time to help me through this. Sometimes I have to stop and pray intensely to Jesus to reach out and calm my fears. But I know, as my faith grows, the shadow of my fears will become smaller.
I was told this and I really like it. Faith is like a muscle, when you haven't used it, it weakens. When you work it, it strengthens. Just like going to the gym, at first it's hard.. but at you grow it gets easier. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | avmalibu - 2015-04-14 11:54 AM
Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-14 10:41 AM I personally can't stand quite a lot of what Paul wrote, so I ignore it. Some of my not nice ideas about him aside, and even taking his conversion at face value, he was writing to churches in the context of the times, so those stupid rules weren't like commands from God--we had women disciples, after all--it was more like helpful hints to grow the church within their society.
I don't want to sound like I am challenging what you say because I am genuinely interested in you're answer. But the Bible was written by God, through man, but it is still God's Word, right? So how can you ignore some parts of the Bible and believe others? I actually find what Paul writes quite helpful and comforting!
Three 4 Luck. I agree with you. I'm not a fan of Paul and not just because of his views on women like many people. I find some of his theology a bit weak. He also says some powerful things. We shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water, but we must remember that there are some things that Paul says that he flat out says are his opinion and not directly from God. We must keep that in mind when we read Paul. Some of it is just Paul, a righteous man no doubt, but a man.
A lot of people also have the philosophy that you HAVE to take the whole bible in order to be a Christian. That is invalid. All one has to do is look at the history of the how the bible became the bible to see that everyone, since the council of nicea and on, has been picking and choosing the books they consider sound doctrine and condemning those they don't like. The reason why some bibles have the 'apocrypha' section is because after the Reformation, a lot of new Protestants looked at certain books in the Catholic bible like the book of Wisdom, some of the chapters of Esther, Baruk, some of the chapters of Daniel, etc. and said they didn't believe they were the 'word of God.' Men decide what the 'word of God' is and what it is not. Men also wrote the 'word of God.' All that being said I believe that the Bible is a sacred book. I believe it has the words of God in it but we cannot forget that men have been the mouthpiece through which it has come. Men are flawed. End of story. The Bible is also not one book; it is an anthology. There are STILL ongoing debates about whether or not the Book of Revelation or the Book of Hebrews (especially since this is the one book in the New Testament with blatant contradictions of Old Testament history) should even be allowed in now. What is in the bible is not fixed, it's fluid.
I believe our study of the bible should begin with what the bible itself is and how it came to be and then move onto what it contains. By understanding how we got our bible, we understand the contents and the contexts of those contents better. Context is very important when reading the bible. | |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | avmalibu - 2015-04-14 11:54 AM Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-14 10:41 AM I personally can't stand quite a lot of what Paul wrote, so I ignore it. Some of my not nice ideas about him aside, and even taking his conversion at face value, he was writing to churches in the context of the times, so those stupid rules weren't like commands from God--we had women disciples, after all--it was more like helpful hints to grow the church within their society. I don't want to sound like I am challenging what you say because I am genuinely interested in you're answer. But the Bible was written by God, through man, but it is still God's Word, right? So how can you ignore some parts of the Bible and believe others? I actually find what Paul writes quite helpful and comforting!
I believe a lot of it was inspired by God, but man changed it up quite a bit. Include this, don't include that, change this word or phrasing to something we like better, or just outright make mistakes in the translating and copying. Paul wrote letters to the churches, those were Paul's words and his understanding of the teachings of Jesus. So when I'm sitting in church and someone reads an excerpt of an epistle followed by "This is the Word of the Lord" and I reply with "Thanks be to God", I'm a fake. Look at what man has done to God's church over the centuries--don't you think the same thing can and has happened to the Bible? God gives us these things and we proceed to screw them up.
that makes me a bad person in the eyes of some, but God still loves me and I Him. | |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | oija - 2015-04-14 12:23 PM avmalibu - 2015-04-14 11:54 AM Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-14 10:41 AM I personally can't stand quite a lot of what Paul wrote, so I ignore it. Some of my not nice ideas about him aside, and even taking his conversion at face value, he was writing to churches in the context of the times, so those stupid rules weren't like commands from God--we had women disciples, after all--it was more like helpful hints to grow the church within their society. I don't want to sound like I am challenging what you say because I am genuinely interested in you're answer. But the Bible was written by God, through man, but it is still God's Word, right? So how can you ignore some parts of the Bible and believe others? I actually find what Paul writes quite helpful and comforting! Three 4 Luck. I agree with you. I'm not a fan of Paul and not just because of his views on women like many people. I find some of his theology a bit weak. He also says some powerful things. We shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water, but we must remember that there are some things that Paul says that he flat out says are his opinion and not directly from God. We must keep that in mind when we read Paul. Some of it is just Paul, a righteous man no doubt, but a man. A lot of people also have the philosophy that you HAVE to take the whole bible in order to be a Christian. That is invalid. All one has to do is look at the history of the how the bible became the bible to see that everyone, since the council of nicea and on, has been picking and choosing the books they consider sound doctrine and condemning those they don't like. The reason why some bibles have the 'apocrypha' section is because after the Reformation, a lot of new Protestants looked at certain books in the Catholic bible like the book of Wisdom, some of the chapters of Esther, Baruk, some of the chapters of Daniel, etc. and said they didn't believe they were the 'word of God.' Men decide what the 'word of God' is and what it is not. Men also wrote the 'word of God.' All that being said I believe that the Bible is a sacred book. I believe it has the words of God in it but we cannot forget that men have been the mouthpiece through which it has come. Men are flawed. End of story. The Bible is also not one book; it is an anthology. There are STILL ongoing debates about whether or not the Book of Revelation or the Book of Hebrews (especially since this is the one book in the New Testament with blatant contradictions of Old Testament history ) should even be allowed in now. What is in the bible is not fixed, it's fluid. I believe our study of the bible should begin with what the bible itself is and how it came to be and then move onto what it contains. By understanding how we got our bible, we understand the contents and the contexts of those contents better. Context is very important when reading the bible.
Thank you. You said it better and more nicely than I did. | |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | TXBO - 2015-04-14 11:53 AM Scripture does not call for women to be weak. It's calling for men to be strong. It also gives men the responsibility of loving his wife as Jesus loved the church. That's calling for a pretty high bar.
Very well put.
A lot of the Old Testament is difficult to read, it's so harsh....but you have to remember that we have a new covanant with God when Jesus died for our sins.
Check out Beth Moore if you have the chance. She does some great studies.
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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | I go through this same battle often. I also hate the saying "you can't pick and choose what to believe" since we ALL pick and choose what we follow in the Bible. No one on here adheres to every commandment that is written in the Bible. People then use the New Testament as their excuse to not follow things that they feel do not apply to them but yet will judge others for their sins. We are all sinners. We can never be perfect. We were not made to be perfect. But what we can do is to try our best to learn and to focus our hearts on Him. I look forward to reading more replies because like I said I to have many of the same questions. My heart wants to believe and I feel at peace when I follow my heart but my mind wants to argue and find reason behind every little thing. | |
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Location: USA | TXBO - 2015-04-14 11:53 AM Scripture does not call for women to be weak. It's calling for men to be strong. It also gives men the responsibility of loving his wife as Jesus loved the church. That's calling for a pretty high bar.
Yes, since Jesus gave His life for the church. Much of scripture is badly misinterpreted.
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What Name?
Posts: 1994
| What are some of the versus that you use for guidance in your dark moments, moments of doubt? I'm not as knowledgable yet to know any by heart. | |
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Go For It!
Location: Texas | Let me say that I am no theologian, not a Bible scholar, not a preacher, just a plain old gal that has a heart for the Lord. God has taught me so much about who He is just through "feel". I've read my Bible over the years and every time I read it I learn something new - about me and my walk. I don't care what the rest of the world does or how they perceive the words written in scripture - that is between them and God. The Holy Spirit will answer our questions for us, He will show us the pathway to knowledge if we will open our hearts and minds to hear His words. It doesn't matter to me how smart or well versed someone might be in regards to theology. I want to see character, I want to see their Light shine. That is what truly matters to God. Anyone can know scripture... The devil himself quoted scripture to Jesus "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written: "'He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'"
We need to study to show ourselves approved, we need to diligently SEEK God's face and we need to keep an open heart and listen for the voice of the Lord to speak to us in the Spirit. There was a time when I thought that people who think like I think now were looney tunes, lol. But God has done a work in me that I didn't even see Him doing. It has taken years for me to get to where I am today, and I have by no means reached the place where I need to be, but I'm sure not stuck in the same place I was yesterday. I am excited to be on this journey and I can't wait to see what happens next! Run your own race, be blessed and go be someone's blessing!
Edited by grinandbareit 2015-04-14 1:03 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 557
Location: Kansas and loving it | My favorite. 2 Corinthians chapter 12 verse 9 and 10. My Grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness. Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so Christ's power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, and in insults, hardship, persecutions, in difficulty. For when I am weak, then I am strong. | |
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 BHW's Lance Armstrong 
Posts: 11134
Location: Somewhere between S@%&# stirrer and Saint | I know you asked for the opinion of women so I hope you don't mind. I am traveling today so doing this on a phone is harder.First of all the death of the first born was symbolic and it was under the law of Moses a lower law. Little children are alive in Christ. Baptism is performed on those those that are accountable and capable of committing sin and the baptism is symbolic to wash away sin. Babies are sinless and if God allows their death they are saved no matter what because they have not sinned. Our earth life is a testing process for us to show our faith and willingness to believe and follow the laws of God. Our earth life is preparation time to meet Good. Those children they were killed were because the parents did not have faith to put the symbolic blood of the Savior above the door. Those children that died were alive in Christ. Their probation time on earth was short.Women in the church. Man and women are equals in the sight of God. They compliment each other.However God's house is a house of order. God has allowed only worthy men tobe allowed to hold the Priesthood power of God. It was his decision and their must be a reason why. Does this make it that God looks down on females I say no. God has establish different rolls for men and women in the church. Is a woman's voice just as important as a man's heck yes. Women may be even closer to God spirituality because they seem to be more humble and receptive to the spirit. Women are a huge part of God's gospel plan. Sorry I don't have access to the new testament to back up my opinions because I am on my phone and waiting for a flight.If any man or preacher says a woman is less than a man. They are false and don't understand how God delegates. | |
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Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | americanpride08 - 2015-04-14 11:57 AM What are some of the versus that you use for guidance in your dark moments, moments of doubt? I'm not as knowledgable yet to know any by heart.
Quite often it depends on the dark times I am going through. A lot of people, myself included, get comfort from Psalm 23, I'm sure that is why it is so popular. I also get quite a lot of comfort from some of Paul's writings...another favorite of mine is 1st Corinthians 13, but that has more to do with love. Romans 5:1-11 I enjoy as it talks abuot faith. One of my most favorite verses in the Bible is Hebrews 11:1, it has carried me through quite a few things. Also, Psalm 91 is very uplifting, for me. Those are just a few. As I think of them I'll try to add them. :) | |
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BHW's Lance Armstrong
Posts: 11134
Location: Somewhere between S@%&# stirrer and Saint | I wouldn't be so quick to discard Paul's writting. They are there for a spiritual reason. If you believe in Revelation, Paul wrote by the power of the Holy Ghost. To understand his writings a person needs to study, pray, cross reference his writtings, and pray asking God that the power of the Holy Ghost may be given to you to understand Paul's writtings. The job so to speak of the Holy Ghost is to bare truth of God. Truth is important. Each person can have personal revelations from God to have a witness of truth by the Holy Ghost. Then meditating the subjects and praying for understanding and studying by preparing yourself spiritually being in tune with God so you can hear the still small whispering of the Holy Ghost bearing truth to you. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1343
Location: East Texas | When I am going through a storm, this is my all-time favorite verse. I love the picture it paints of God hovering over me and letting me hide under Him!!
Psalm 57:1 Have mercy on me, my God, have mercy on me, for in you I take refuge. I will take refuge in the shadow of your wings until the disaster has passed. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | Douglas J Gordon - 2015-04-14 3:52 PM I wouldn't be so quick to discard Paul's writting. They are there for a spiritual reason. If you believe in Revelation, Paul wrote by the power of the Holy Ghost. To understand his writings a person needs to study, pray, cross reference his writtings, and pray asking God that the power of the Holy Ghost may be given to you to understand Paul's writtings. The job so to speak of the Holy Ghost is to bare truth of God. Truth is important. Each person can have personal revelations from God to have a witness of truth by the Holy Ghost. Then meditating the subjects and praying for understanding and studying by preparing yourself spiritually being in tune with God so you can hear the still small whispering of the Holy Ghost bearing truth to you.
It isn't all the Holy Spirit. You have to separate the Holy Spirit from Paul's ego, which a pretty darn powerful one. Catholic priests live as virgins because of 1 Corinthians 7. It has caused a lot of issues like the pedophilia present there. Again, the bible was written BY THE HANDS OF FALLIBLE MEN, Paul among them.
1 Corinthians 7
Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 2But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.
8Now to the unmarrieda and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
10To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.
12To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
15But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?
Concerning Change of Status
17Nevertheless, each person should live as a believer in whatever situation the Lord has assigned to them, just as God has called them. This is the rule I lay down in all the churches. 18Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised. 19Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts. 20Each person should remain in the situation they were in when God called them.
21Were you a slave when you were called? Don’t let it trouble you—although if you can gain your freedom, do so. 22For the one who was a slave when called to faith in the Lord is the Lord’s freed person; similarly, the one who was free when called is Christ’s slave. 23You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of human beings. 24Brothers and sisters, each person, as responsible to God, should remain in the situation they were in when God called them.
Concerning the Unmarried
25Now about virgins: I have no command from the Lord, but I give a judgment as one who by the Lord’s mercy is trustworthy. 26Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for a man to remain as he is. 27Are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife. 28But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.
29What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not; 30those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; 31those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.
32I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. 35I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.
36If anyone is worried that he might not be acting honorably toward the virgin he is engaged to, and if his passions are too strongb and he feels he ought to marry, he should do as he wants. He is not sinning. They should get married. 37But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion but has control over his own will, and who has made up his mind not to marry the virgin—this man also does the right thing. 38So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does better.c
39A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord. 40In my judgment, she is happier if she stays as she is—and I think that I too have the Spirit of God. | |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | oija - 2015-04-14 4:29 PM Douglas J Gordon - 2015-04-14 3:52 PM I wouldn't be so quick to discard Paul's writting. They are there for a spiritual reason. If you believe in Revelation, Paul wrote by the power of the Holy Ghost. To understand his writings a person needs to study, pray, cross reference his writtings, and pray asking God that the power of the Holy Ghost may be given to you to understand Paul's writtings. The job so to speak of the Holy Ghost is to bare truth of God. Truth is important. Each person can have personal revelations from God to have a witness of truth by the Holy Ghost. Then meditating the subjects and praying for understanding and studying by preparing yourself spiritually being in tune with God so you can hear the still small whispering of the Holy Ghost bearing truth to you. It isn't all the Holy Spirit. You have to separate the Holy Spirit from Paul's ego, which a pretty darn powerful one. Catholic priests live as virgins because of 1 Corinthians 7. It has caused a lot of issues like the pedophilia present there. Again, the bible was written BY THE HANDS OF FALLIBLE MEN, Paul among them.
And that right there is a big reason why I think Paul needed therapy. Dude was warped. And caused so much harm. Most of what people use in defense of hating on groups of people came from his writings, not what Jesus said. I have heard people say that if the Bible isn't 100% accurate, then their Faith is a lie, so they cannot accept that possiblity. But that is soooo not true. God is so much more than words in a book cobbled together and edited by men over the centuries. Jesus lived and died and rose for us whether the church stayed true to his message or not. Believing that, knowing that in your heart, THAT is Faith.
I don't discount the Bible at all. It's a wonderous book filled with God's love and lessons, and the good news about Jesus. I just don't believe the entire thing is the infallible Word of God--too many changes made by men by design and on accident. | |
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Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | Douglas J Gordon - 2015-04-14 2:52 PM I wouldn't be so quick to discard Paul's writting. They are there for a spiritual reason. If you believe in Revelation, Paul wrote by the power of the Holy Ghost. To understand his writings a person needs to study, pray, cross reference his writtings, and pray asking God that the power of the Holy Ghost may be given to you to understand Paul's writtings. The job so to speak of the Holy Ghost is to bare truth of God. Truth is important. Each person can have personal revelations from God to have a witness of truth by the Holy Ghost. Then meditating the subjects and praying for understanding and studying by preparing yourself spiritually being in tune with God so you can hear the still small whispering of the Holy Ghost bearing truth to you.
I'm a little confused, are you talking about revelation or the book of Revelation, because the book of Revalation was written by the Apostle John while on the island of Patmos.  | |
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BHW's Lance Armstrong
Posts: 11134
Location: Somewhere between S@%&# stirrer and Saint | You have to take into consideration whom Paul was writing to. He was answering questions of those that were married on missions. He praised self discipline. | |
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Go For It!
Location: Texas |
Come on guys, let's put aside egos and remember what this post is about. If you want to hold a theological debate, maybe do it at a different place. Everyone is at a different place in their journey, and believe it or not... but your view may one day change. In the interim isn't the whole thing about helping people to find salvation and letting the Holy Spirit do His job. Young Christians can be totally turned off when "mature" Christians debate theology. It's baby food right now. :)
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BHW's Lance Armstrong
Posts: 11134
Location: Somewhere between S@%&# stirrer and Saint | mtcanchazer - 2015-04-14 5:18 PM
Douglas J Gordon - 2015-04-14 2:52 PM I wouldn't be so quick to discard Paul's writting. They are there for a spiritual reason. If you believe in Revelation, Paul wrote by the power of the Holy Ghost. To understand his writings a person needs to study, pray, cross reference his writtings, and pray asking God that the power of the Holy Ghost may be given to you to understand Paul's writtings. The job so to speak of the Holy Ghost is to bare truth of God. Truth is important. Each person can have personal revelations from God to have a witness of truth by the Holy Ghost. Then meditating the subjects and praying for understanding and studying by preparing yourself spiritually being in tune with God so you can hear the still small whispering of the Holy Ghost bearing truth to you.
I'm a little confused, are you talking about revelation or the book of Revelation, because the book of Revalation was written by the Apostle John while on the island of Patmos.
I am speaking of direct revelation from God through the Holy Ghost. When a Prophet or Apostle speaks in authority from God he is speaking through inspiration from God by the power of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost testifies of truth. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | grinandbareit - 2015-04-14 5:40 PM
Come on guys, let's put aside egos and remember what this post is about. If you want to hold a theological debate, maybe do it at a different place. Everyone is at a different place in their journey, and believe it or not... but your view may one day change. In the interim isn't the whole thing about helping people to find salvation and letting the Holy Spirit do His job. Young Christians can be totally turned off when "mature" Christians debate theology. It's baby food right now. :)
I agree with you and yet . . . Somewhat not. Many young Christians need just the basics. But as a young Christian it can be hard to reconcile our views of a loving God with the angry one of the Old Testament which is what the OP was originally worried about. Just as many young Christians can be driven out because they become disillusioned at the seeming contradictions and what may seem like a lack of satisfactory answers. How can a loving God be so cruel? And saying well it's God and you'll just never get it may not be enough. Many people struggle with their faith and sometimes the answer is prayer but sometimes the answer is study, both can result in a more mature believer. Paul is another point which people who struggle with their faith can get stuck on. If they come to understand that a belief in Christ does not necessitate a belief in all of Paul's doctrines then they may have get over some of their struggles with faith and see Paul as a guide but maybe not the be all end all for a practical Christian life. Dealing with both types of struggles with faith, the emotional (through prayer) and the logical (through study and yes some theology) may help resolve some of those faith struggles. It's not all about ego. It is an honest attempt to help the OP on both sides of that struggle. It helps create a better reader of the bible and thus someone who may be more comfortable in their faith. | |
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Regular
Posts: 81
| I have recently renewed my vigor in studying the bible. I like Proverbs 3:11-13
11 My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord; neither be weary of his correction:
12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
13 Happy is the man that findeteh wisdeom, and that eman that getteth understanding.
I also have been reading the book of Luke and agree with a previous post on this being a beautiful book on Jesus as a person. I love the story that begins in Luke 7:37 and talks about a woman who came to Jesus that was a 'sinner' and Jesus was questioned in helping her and he tells a parable about a person that owes 550 pence, and another that owes 50 pence then asked the question if the creditor forgives both the loans who received the most forgiveness? The answer is the person with the greater debt. I love this parable in that it just goes to show that no matter how you think you 'aren't good enough' have 'sinned too much' have done something 'terrible' all is forgiven with the Lord and he will love us unconditionally and eternally.
If you are searching I would let you heart and the Lord guide you to what you are looking for. I am having a lot of martial problems right now and am doing the same thing you are doing. Through just mild curiousity I was lead to the book of Luke and have found a lot of peace in the wisdom and level of love that is portrayed in that book.
Ultimately, I think this is a very personal journey for anyone but wish you the best of luck and hope that you are able to find what you are looking for!
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Go For It!
Location: Texas | oija - 2015-04-14 6:24 PM
grinandbareit - 2015-04-14 5:40 PM
Come on guys, let's put aside egos and remember what this post is about. If you want to hold a theological debate, maybe do it at a different place. Everyone is at a different place in their journey, and believe it or not... but your view may one day change. In the interim isn't the whole thing about helping people to find salvation and letting the Holy Spirit do His job. Young Christians can be totally turned off when "mature" Christians debate theology. It's baby food right now. :)
I agree with you and yet . . . Somewhat not. Many young Christians need just the basics. But as a young Christian it can be hard to reconcile our views of a loving God with the angry one of the Old Testament which is what the OP was originally worried about. Just as many young Christians can be driven out because they become disillusioned at the seeming contradictions and what may seem like a lack of satisfactory answers. How can a loving God be so cruel? And saying well it's God and you'll just never get it may not be enough. Many people struggle with their faith and sometimes the answer is prayer but sometimes the answer is study, both can result in a more mature believer. Paul is another point which people who struggle with their faith can get stuck on. If they come to understand that a belief in Christ does not necessitate a belief in all of Paul's doctrines then they may have get over some of their struggles with faith and see Paul as a guide but maybe not the be all end all for a practical Christian life. Dealing with both types of struggles with faith, the emotional (through prayer ) and the logical (through study and yes some theology ) may help resolve some of those faith struggles. It's not all about ego. It is an honest attempt to help the OP on both sides of that struggle. It helps create a better reader of the bible and thus someone who may be more comfortable in their faith.
Agreed! My concern is that we are all giving our "opinion" on the meaning of certain scripture. What I have learned is that something that spoke to me years ago, may speak to me in a totally different way today. Some things that I have skipped over in the past - JUMP out at me now. It is confusing to a young Christian or those seeking the truth to hear debate between teachers.
To the OP... You will hear so many different takes on scripture. The answers you seek are already in your heart. The more you read and study the Word, the more it will be revealed to you. Debating is for those who are strong in their beliefs, not those who are searching to find their truth. And trust me, their truth could change, so can yours. The important thing is to know Jesus died for YOU. Your salvation is through Him. Once you know and understand the love that God has for you, the rest will come as you grow in your relationship with him. Find a mentor to talk to, one on one. Someone you know and respect. Someone who puts God first, and let them help guide you in the right direction.
When I think back on my journey with the Lord, I now realize how truly blessed I was. I was blessed even before I knew anything about the nature of God. He watched over me and took care of me while I learned about Him. I was so undeserving of that love and protection... but now... well, I'm hoping that I can begin to catch up with my blessings. I know that it will never happen, because God's goodness far outweighs any works that I could ever do. Even so, I will continue to lift Him up to others so that they may discover the peace that comes with knowing God is on your side. :)
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | grinandbareit - 2015-04-14 6:47 PM
oija - 2015-04-14 6:24 PM
grinandbareit - 2015-04-14 5:40 PM
Come on guys, let's put aside egos and remember what this post is about. If you want to hold a theological debate, maybe do it at a different place. Everyone is at a different place in their journey, and believe it or not... but your view may one day change. In the interim isn't the whole thing about helping people to find salvation and letting the Holy Spirit do His job. Young Christians can be totally turned off when "mature" Christians debate theology. It's baby food right now. :)
I agree with you and yet . . . Somewhat not. Many young Christians need just the basics. But as a young Christian it can be hard to reconcile our views of a loving God with the angry one of the Old Testament which is what the OP was originally worried about. Just as many young Christians can be driven out because they become disillusioned at the seeming contradictions and what may seem like a lack of satisfactory answers. How can a loving God be so cruel? And saying well it's God and you'll just never get it may not be enough. Many people struggle with their faith and sometimes the answer is prayer but sometimes the answer is study, both can result in a more mature believer. Paul is another point which people who struggle with their faith can get stuck on. If they come to understand that a belief in Christ does not necessitate a belief in all of Paul's doctrines then they may have get over some of their struggles with faith and see Paul as a guide but maybe not the be all end all for a practical Christian life. Dealing with both types of struggles with faith, the emotional (through prayer ) and the logical (through study and yes some theology ) may help resolve some of those faith struggles. It's not all about ego. It is an honest attempt to help the OP on both sides of that struggle. It helps create a better reader of the bible and thus someone who may be more comfortable in their faith.
Agreed! My concern is that we are all giving our "opinion" on the meaning of certain scripture. What I have learned is that something that spoke to me years ago, may speak to me in a totally different way today. Some things that I have skipped over in the past - JUMP out at me now. It is confusing to a young Christian or those seeking the truth to hear debate between teachers.
To the OP... You will hear so many different takes on scripture. The answers you seek are already in your heart. The more you read and study the Word, the more it will be revealed to you. Debating is for those who are strong in their beliefs, not those who are searching to find their truth. And trust me, their truth could change, so can yours. The important thing is to know Jesus died for YOU. Your salvation is through Him. Once you know and understand the love that God has for you, the rest will come as you grow in your relationship with him. Find a mentor to talk to, one on one. Someone you know and respect. Someone who puts God first, and let them help guide you in the right direction.
When I think back on my journey with the Lord, I now realize how truly blessed I was. I was blessed even before I knew anything about the nature of God. He watched over me and took care of me while I learned about Him. I was so undeserving of that love and protection... but now... well, I'm hoping that I can begin to catch up with my blessings. I know that it will never happen, because God's goodness far outweighs any works that I could ever do. Even so, I will continue to lift Him up to others so that they may discover the peace that comes with knowing God is on your side. : )
I understand and appreciate your perspective on the independent scriptural passages. It can come across in a multitude of ways depending on theaudience. I really appreciate your last couple paragraphs though. These words of encouragement are often helpful to many. I personally respond with relatively little emotion when I think on God or pray. BUT when I listen to certain praise songs, especially those of Don Francisco, and when I read the beautiful words in the Bible, the words of these, the study of these make my love for God overwhelm me. I hope the OP can find that some upwelling of love in her spirit. There may be one answer--Jesus. But there are many questions we can ask to find him. :) | |
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What Name?
Posts: 1994
| the debating and theology doesn't bother me. I enjoy reading everyone's views as long as it stays polite and cordial. :) I have a really strong church, with lots of friend who share the faith. Between that and y'all I have an amazing support group to help me work through my doubts and moments of weaknesses. Thank you everyone. I'll continue to check out this thread for help! Thank you for helping me to find ways to answer my questions! :)
Edited by americanpride08 2015-04-14 8:28 PM
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Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | Douglas J Gordon - 2015-04-14 4:43 PM mtcanchazer - 2015-04-14 5:18 PM Douglas J Gordon - 2015-04-14 2:52 PM I wouldn't be so quick to discard Paul's writting. They are there for a spiritual reason. If you believe in Revelation, Paul wrote by the power of the Holy Ghost. To understand his writings a person needs to study, pray, cross reference his writtings, and pray asking God that the power of the Holy Ghost may be given to you to understand Paul's writtings. The job so to speak of the Holy Ghost is to bare truth of God. Truth is important. Each person can have personal revelations from God to have a witness of truth by the Holy Ghost. Then meditating the subjects and praying for understanding and studying by preparing yourself spiritually being in tune with God so you can hear the still small whispering of the Holy Ghost bearing truth to you. I'm a little confused, are you talking about revelation or the book of Revelation, because the book of Revalation was written by the Apostle John while on the island of Patmos. I am speaking of direct revelation from God through the Holy Ghost. When a Prophet or Apostle speaks in authority from God he is speaking through inspiration from God by the power of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost testifies of truth.
Thanks very much for the explanation! I understand the meaning of revelation, where it was capitalized it had me confused. :)
I have to agree with Grin and bare it, while I'm typing, getting too many opinions on different Bible verses is extremely confusing, especially for those who are just renewing their faith or have just started searching.
I once had a friend who was just starting to search, and I felt one of the best books of the Bible to read was the book of James for someone searching, and I still recommend it. Proverbs is a great book to read, too, for some conventional wisdom. | |
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What Name?
Posts: 1994
| I have received some very great advice from all of you, and some scripture to check into as I continue my journey. Thank you! =) I'm glad I have a place to come to express my questions. It's hard to find groups on social networks like this that share you beliefs on broad scale. Christianity is becoming a cherished and rare trait. I'm glad I can lean you my BHW folk when I need some faithful uplifting! Thank you friends! | |
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Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | americanpride08 - 2015-04-14 7:53 PM I have received some very great advice from all of you, and some scripture to check into as I continue my journey. Thank you! =) I'm glad I have a place to come to express my questions. It's hard to find groups on social networks like this that share you beliefs on broad scale. Christianity is becoming a cherished and rare trait. I'm glad I can lean you my BHW folk when I need some faithful uplifting! Thank you friends!
You bet! What are horsey, crazy friends for?! :) | |
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Boot Detective
Posts: 1900
| With all of the craziness going on in this day and time, all of the abuse, adultery, corruption, it is easy to start having those doubts. Sometimes I have a weak moment myself and ask myself if God is perfect, then why did he create such a messed up world? Why did he let things get like this? Why didn't he only create good hearted, God fearing people? But when I start doubting, I sit outside at night (usually on a horse out in the pasture) and I start to pray. It use to be hard to do, but now it comes so easy. I pray for our country, pray for everyone's health, pray for cures for cancer, etc....pray for specific friends that may be going through a rough spot, and most important give THANKS for everything......family, friends, job, health, beautiful weather, our animals we love so much, anything you are thankful for. Don't ASK for any material things, just pray for others and be thankful for what you have. Always pray for his forgiveness. Once you get started, you will find sometimes it is hard to stop. Things will pour from your soul. I always get cold chills when I do this and I know that chill is His presence around me.
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What Name?
Posts: 1994
| quickdraw - 2015-04-14 9:48 PM With all of the craziness going on in this day and time, all of the abuse, adultery, corruption, it is easy to start having those doubts. Sometimes I have a weak moment myself and ask myself if God is perfect, then why did he create such a messed up world? Why did he let things get like this? Why didn't he only create good hearted, God fearing people? But when I start doubting, I sit outside at night (usually on a horse out in the pasture) and I start to pray. It use to be hard to do, but now it comes so easy. I pray for our country, pray for everyone's health, pray for cures for cancer, etc....pray for specific friends that may be going through a rough spot, and most important give THANKS for everything......family, friends, job, health, beautiful weather, our animals we love so much, anything you are thankful for. Don't ASK for any material things, just pray for others and be thankful for what you have. Always pray for his forgiveness. Once you get started, you will find sometimes it is hard to stop. Things will pour from your soul. I always get cold chills when I do this and I know that chill is His presence around me.
This is awesome! I always get cold chills too when I pray, especially when I'm just appreciating Gods work or his plan.  | |
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  Roan Wonder
Location: SW MO |
I want to thank you all for this wonderful thread you ladies are great | |
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 Dancing in my Mind
Posts: 3062
Location: Eastern OH but my heart is in WV | I don't have time to read all the posts right now but I would like to suggest "The Story" book to you. It is the bible told more in a story form, with some actual verses from the Bible, for easier reading. It has a GREAT DVD series you can get with it too. I think it is a very good foundation for anyone starting to study God's word or just wanting to learn more.
We are doing the series right now in our SS class and we are all in different stages of our walk. I have never personally read all the way through the bible, so I am learning a lot from this series. I have tried reading the Bible from cover to cover but get to booged down in the Old Testment, so this is a really nice alternative. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 278
Location: arkansas | Prayers to all, it is so great to see other with the faith in thease times when so much wrong is going on, so much we don't understand. I hate seeing all of the bad in our government, so many Christian people being persecuted for their faith, but then I think all of this may have to happen for the time to get right for rapture. I would like prayer for my family we have started a Cowboy Church in Arkansas and the Lord is Blessing us, I pray for him to give us wisdom and strength and for him to send us the people we need to help us grow and reach out to the lost and wisdom to always do his will and to protect us from the evil one. You guys are great!!!! | |
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For the bible wise-- I have questions