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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
   
Location: North Dakota | My horse has been on omeprazole for 3 weeks now. I think he's gained a little weight, as his ribs aren't showing so bad and he seems to be moving out/stretching a little better when I turn him loose in the arena but he's still very on and off with his back soreness. It's improved overall, and some days he's completely pain free, but then other days he's a little tender again. I did add Equishure going on a week ago, to address any possible hindgut issues so hopefully that helps. How long does it usually take to see a total recovery? |
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 Buttered Noodles Snacker
Posts: 4377
Location: NC | I didn't see results for like a month with my horse. even after that it was a pretty gradual improvement but there was improvement. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1898
| If he is moving better and gaining weight you are seeing results. Give it time. |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | Have you had any blood work done? |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | rachellyn80 - 2015-04-17 3:51 PM
Have you had any blood work done?
Yes everything came back negative and showed no signs of underlying lameness and the vet highly doubts it could be kissing spine. He also was adjusted a little over a month ago and hasn't been ridden in several months either. He's had a very stressful 6 months with just about everything that causes ulcers happening to him and he exhibited several signs of ulcers. |
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | Did you test for Lymes and EPM? Have you 5 panel DNA tested? |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | Anniemae - 2015-04-17 5:19 PMDid you test for Lymes and EPM? Have you 5 panel DNA tested? I talked about EPM w/ the vet. The only symptom he's exhibited for EPM and PSSM is the back soreness. I am 99% sure that was covered in the blood test. I did not have a 5 panel done.
Edited by cavyrunsbarrels 2015-04-17 5:34 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Patience....
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | komet. - 2015-04-17 5:33 PM
Patience....
I don't wanna be patient any more! I got him last August, rode him a few times, then he got strangles, then an abscess, then this. Ugh! I just wanna RIDE. |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | cavyrunsbarrels - 2015-04-17 5:52 PM
komet. - 2015-04-17 5:33 PM
Patience....
I don't wanna be patient any more! I got him last August, rode him a few times, then he got strangles, then an abscess, then this. Ugh! I just wanna RIDE.
Build another stall and fill it with this...
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | is his saddle causing issues to? i realize other things but it all can attribute.. |
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 Regular
Posts: 54
Location: Valley City,ND | Are you using a Lab Proven for potency and stability Omeprazole product for the gastric ulcers? Or are you just giving "tums" ? Also, the excess acid travels to the hindgut upsetting the balance of good vs bad bacteria which can cause hindgut acidosis. Prebiotics and Probiotics could help rebalance the gut flora. Gotta think total digestive health.
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | Bibliafarm - 2015-04-17 8:12 PM
is his saddle causing issues to? i realize other things but it all can attribute..
He hasn't been ridden since October. His first sign of back soreness didn't show up till late November/early December. |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | Crooks - 2015-04-17 10:23 PM
Are you using a Lab Proven for potency and stability Omeprazole product for the gastric ulcers? Or are you just giving "tums" ? Also, the excess acid travels to the hindgut upsetting the balance of good vs bad bacteria which can cause hindgut acidosis. Prebiotics and Probiotics could help rebalance the gut flora. Gotta think total digestive health.
I got it from Douglas J Gordon. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Patient's GrassHopper, you have got to have patients  |
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Blessed 
Location: Here | Back pain can come from lots of issues ie feet knees hocks tendons etc. ulcers don't necessarily = back pain |
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Veteran
Posts: 139
Location: Abbotsford B.C. Canada | Hmmm:
Ok I can buy ulcers hurting perofrmance but an issue specific to the back sounds like something else.
The horse was laid up then given opmeprazloe and then started back to work if I read this right, but he seems to have issues.
I suggest you ask your vet to give him an exercsie stress test as per advice I have received from Dr. Stephanie Valberg at the U of Minn and see if PSSM may be an issue or if there is actually an issue with the back muscles.
What you do is just give the horse the usual evening feed and in the morning feed normally. Then the vet comes out and takes a blood sample just before you work him in the round pen. This sample will be checked for the enzymes CK and AST to see where they are at.
If AST is high there may be some issue with muscle or maybe liver damage. The Ck is interesting because unlike AST it has a short half life so if the horse had an issue yesterday and you tested this AM you may not pick up anything as CK clears in 4-6 hours.
THen you take the horse to the round pen or whatever you have and ask for walk and trot for 10-20 minutes. If he seems sore stop of course. Then wait 5 hours and take another blood sample. What you want to see is the release of CK suddenly jumping up. Then you know this horse has issues with the muscle being danaged and it may even have PSSM.
The trick is type one PSSM may not show up using a sudden blast of heavy anaerobic work, it shows with sub maximal work where the exercise is mostly aerobic and it occues in the first ten to twenty minutes.
This will at least answer the question, Is this horse having a muscle issue? The vet can tell you if it worthwhile doing a blood or hair analyis for TYpe 1 or at least that maybe the horse is simply being brought back too fast ?
Shoot me I am not a vet but Dr. Valberg says this is a good way to help sort out these issues. In the meantime you may want to use a low sugar diet high fat diet and add the anti inflammatory omega three fatty acids via milled flax or a commercial marine supplement and make sure all the goodies are balanced. Feed some alfalfa hay at a few lbs a day but feed it 1-2 hours before you ride so it can soak up acid that gets splashed up when working. Just like tums!!!
Just an old cowboy's opinion! The vet should decide with you of course.
Coastal Rider |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | He is on a grain free diet. He gets Renew Gold, Alfalfa (pellets and flake), and necessary supplements. I don't think he has ever had grain in his life.
The Vet did bloodwork, as well as a lameness exam and found NOTHING wrong. We talked about it being PSSM but based on his diet and symptoms, that and EPM seemed unlikely. Had the chiro out too. He has not been ridden since October when he got Strangles followed up by an abscess that lasted a good 2 months. It was during the time he was being treated for the abscess that he had the first episode of back soreness (so late Nov/early Dec). It was fine for a while then in January it flared up again and again in Febuary and it has not gone away. He hasn't had an extremely bad episode since I started the ulcer treatments but it's still THERE. I just don't know what to do! |
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Regular
Posts: 54
Location: Valley City,ND | Have you done the Dr. DePaolo acupressure points test for gastric ulcers? Maybe try probiotics to restore gut flora. |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | Crooks - 2015-04-19 1:11 AM
Have you done the Dr. DePaolo acupressure points test for gastric ulcers? Maybe try probiotics to restore gut flora.
Yes and the pressure points on the back are where he's sore. Once he was a little reactive to all the points but mostly just those on his back. He also can be a little touchy in his flank area. |
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Blessed
Location: Here | have you checked for sand in the gut? have you done a power pac?
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I Really Love Jeans
Posts: 3173
Location: North Dakota | Likely why previous owner sold the horse! I would move on and get something you can actually ride. Waiting around all spring and summer for a horse that may or may not ever be issue free is just not worth the money and headache! Just my opinion, do what you think is best for you! |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | I have no idea what a power pac is...I'll have to look that up. This horse was sold because his owner was moving and couldn't take him. I had him vet checked when I bought him and he wasn't back sore at all for the first 3.5 months I owned him. I LOVE this horse. As far as horses go, he is my soul mate and I want to do EVERYTHING possible to get him sound. I could not live with myself if I were to get rid of him. |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | Also, I don't have any sand anything at my barn but he was kept in a sand pen for idk how long before I got him. I have a vet appt next week for my other horse so if there's anything else I can have her test for I'll see if she can squeeze him in. |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| 1. Are you using Ulcergard or Gastrogard? Those will give you great results within five days, and can increase appetite in 24 hours or less. Treat for 15 days.
2. Why wouldn't you get $100 worth of X-rays to check for kissing spine? Can't be diagnosed/disproved without them.
3. Power pack if ribby.
4. 10 days of 1/2 tube ProBios two times a day.
5. Sore hocks and/or stifles can cause back pain. So can an SI problem.
6. Incorrect shoeing angles can cause sore joints. Sore joints can cause digestive problems.
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | classicpotatochip - 2015-04-19 11:39 AM 1. Are you using Ulcergard or Gastrogard? Those will give you great results within five days, and can increase appetite in 24 hours or less. Treat for 15 days. 2. Why wouldn't you get $100 worth of X-rays to check for kissing spine? Can't be diagnosed/disproved without them. 3. Power pack if ribby. 4. 10 days of 1/2 tube ProBios two times a day. 5. Sore hocks and/or stifles can cause back pain. So can an SI problem. 6. Incorrect shoeing angles can cause sore joints. Sore joints can cause digestive problems.
1. I am not because $1000+ for a month is impossible for me.
2. My vet said that at that point (before we got the blood results back) that it was so unlikely I should save the money and wait. She's an hour away and I don't have a trailer so I have to really plan my visits.
3. I just googled the PowerPac...I already did his March/April dewormer. Is there something special about this or....?
4. I'll look into that. He is on a probiotic.
5. She did a flexion test for the hocks/stifles and found absolutely nothing. He has never shown the slightest sign of lameness, and he's only 6 and never been hauled or used very hard.
6. When he had his abscess, he was lame for like 2 months (it was BAD). He spent 2 weeks living in soft rides then went to shoes with pads. He's now back to being barefoot. My farrier is very good and everyone in the area uses him but you never know I guess. |
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Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| cavyrunsbarrels - 2015-04-19 12:08 PM
classicpotatochip - 2015-04-19 11:39 AM 1. Are you using Ulcergard or Gastrogard? Those will give you great results within five days, and can increase appetite in 24 hours or less. Treat for 15 days. 2. Why wouldn't you get $100 worth of X-rays to check for kissing spine? Can't be diagnosed/disproved without them. 3. Power pack if ribby. 4. 10 days of 1/2 tube ProBios two times a day. 5. Sore hocks and/or stifles can cause back pain. So can an SI problem. 6. Incorrect shoeing angles can cause sore joints. Sore joints can cause digestive problems.
1. I am not because $1000+ for a month is impossible for me.
2. My vet said that at that point (before we got the blood results back) that it was so unlikely I should save the money and wait. She's an hour away and I don't have a trailer so I have to really plan my visits.
3. I just googled the PowerPac...I already did his March/April dewormer. Is there something special about this or....?
4. I'll look into that. He is on a probiotic.
5. She did a flexion test for the hocks/stifles and found absolutely nothing. He has never shown the slightest sign of lameness, and he's only 6 and never been hauled or used very hard.
6. When he had his abscess, he was lame for like 2 months (it was BAD). He spent 2 weeks living in soft rides then went to shoes with pads. He's now back to being barefoot. My farrier is very good and everyone in the area uses him but you never know I guess.
As far as the Gastrogard is concerned, you could do 15 days for less than $500 and probably fix the problem, if you focused on good aftercare. https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=2e87c128-7b6a-11d5-a...
I'm surprised you spend a lot of time on this forum, and missed the power pac conversations. You could do a search and come up with the reason power pac is special.
How much is riding worth to you? I don't understand why people go with ulcer treatments that aren't proven, and aren't providing relief. Why not spend the money upfront and fix it rather than shell it out twenty bucks at a time on snake oil?
Edited to add: KS is not unlikely at all. Two out of four of mine have had/have it, one not showing symptoms, but the X-rays show it. One had surgery. KS is a lot more common than most people realize.
Edited by classicpotatochip 2015-04-19 12:20 PM
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | when you did the lameness eval did you work the horse in deep sand to look for the stifle catching? that can cause sore back as they compensate to try and keep it from slipping out of place. I can not tell you how many vets miss this. |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | classicpotatochip - 2015-04-19 12:17 PM
cavyrunsbarrels - 2015-04-19 12:08 PM
classicpotatochip - 2015-04-19 11:39 AM 1. Are you using Ulcergard or Gastrogard? Those will give you great results within five days, and can increase appetite in 24 hours or less. Treat for 15 days. 2. Why wouldn't you get $100 worth of X-rays to check for kissing spine? Can't be diagnosed/disproved without them. 3. Power pack if ribby. 4. 10 days of 1/2 tube ProBios two times a day. 5. Sore hocks and/or stifles can cause back pain. So can an SI problem. 6. Incorrect shoeing angles can cause sore joints. Sore joints can cause digestive problems.
1. I am not because $1000+ for a month is impossible for me.
2. My vet said that at that point (before we got the blood results back) that it was so unlikely I should save the money and wait. She's an hour away and I don't have a trailer so I have to really plan my visits.
3. I just googled the PowerPac...I already did his March/April dewormer. Is there something special about this or....?
4. I'll look into that. He is on a probiotic.
5. She did a flexion test for the hocks/stifles and found absolutely nothing. He has never shown the slightest sign of lameness, and he's only 6 and never been hauled or used very hard.
6. When he had his abscess, he was lame for like 2 months (it was BAD). He spent 2 weeks living in soft rides then went to shoes with pads. He's now back to being barefoot. My farrier is very good and everyone in the area uses him but you never know I guess.
As far as the Gastrogard is concerned, you could do 15 days for less than $500 and probably fix the problem, if you focused on good aftercare. https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=2e87c128-7b6a-11d5-a...
I'm surprised you spend a lot of time on this forum, and missed the power pac conversations. You could do a search and come up with the reason power pac is special.
How much is riding worth to you? I don't understand why people go with ulcer treatments that aren't proven, and aren't providing relief. Why not spend the money upfront and fix it rather than shell it out twenty bucks at a time on snake oil?
Edited to add: KS is not unlikely at all. Two out of four of mine have had/have it, one not showing symptoms, but the X-rays show it. One had surgery. KS is a lot more common than most people realize.
I don't know how I missed it either! I'll go back and look. Anyway, regarding the kissing spine, I had just lost my job and won't be starting my new one for another week or so, so I have to be really careful how I spend my vet money. We decided to see how the blood came back first. I also used omeprazole that was recommended by several people but it's back to the drawing board I guess. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| After reading this were going to buy Panacur right now. |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | kwanatha - 2015-04-19 12:24 PM
when you did the lameness eval did you work the horse in deep sand to look for the stifle catching? that can cause sore back as they compensate to try and keep it from slipping out of place. I can not tell you how many vets miss this.
My arenas are all dirt. They're not super deep but I think you'd notice a stifle catching in it. His trot is totally even and he didn't look lame or even slightly off. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2335
Location: IL | Just my opinion but if your horse has ulcer problems I would not power pac. Could he still just be healing from the abcess? They can be tricky. I feed Forco for hindgut problems and I'm a huge fan of it now. How are you determining that he has back pain. Some horses can just be flinchy to touch...Maybe his ulcers were really bad and when a back gets sore it takes a while for it to feel better. Have you tried a BOT blanket to help his back? |
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