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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
  
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | I heard as many as 70. I have lived in WY my entire life, but even if you haven't, is there a reason people are driving this dang fast!?! The video totally miffs me off as I watch one truck after another come slamming into the one in front. The other longer ones shows most of the damage done. 20 some people injured but no deaths that I have read about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxlvxvG8zOE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9_iv_AtFJg
Edited by wyoming barrel racer 2015-04-17 7:30 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Last time I went through there the limit was 75mph... just coming out of MT where they had no limit... But you drive according to the conditions.... you don't drive 100mph in fog or on ice or wet roads... I learned to drive defensively.. People have insurance and air bags now and don't do that anymore.. |
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 Ms. Elvis
Posts: 9606
Location: Running barrels or watching nascar | speed limit is now 80 but that's no excuse. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| I was amazed driving through WY, getting passed like crazy by semi's and we were going 85! In IA tops is 75! So sad about these crazy numbers of cars in the pileup.  |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | I always thought for years that Wyoming was a safe place to drive-MOST know how to drive for the condions because we deal with them so often and we have a lot of wide open spaces. Some of the most wrecks actually happen from people falling asleep because you can drive 3 hours or more before you get to another town-gets a little boring and a nap sounds good.
I have driven up I-80 so often I could do it with my eyes closed, but I am still shocked that with that wet wet snow, ANY driver didn't have the common sense to slow the hell down. I don't care if they didn't know a wreck was up ahead or not, they shouldn't have been doing over 40 max in that stretch with those road conditions, still snowing with poor visibility. I am so thankful no one was killed.
My husband hauls cattle all over the state, but not usually that way. Seeing that really puts into perspective what he deals with when he is driving. I have a whole new respect for truckers, the good ones anyways. |
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 Texas Tenderheart
Posts: 6715
Location: Red Raiderland | Wow, that is unreal! Do truckers not use CB's anymore? I would think others could easily tell the conditions and slow the heck down and talk to one another on their CB's.
One other thing, I can't believe there is still snow falling in the lower 48 but I have never lived up north and it just amazes me!  |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Kaycee - 2015-04-17 8:26 PM
Wow, that is unreal! Do truckers not use CB's anymore? I would think others could easily tell the conditions and slow the heck down and talk to one another on their CB's.
One other thing, I can't believe there is still snow falling in the lower 48 but I have never lived up north and it just amazes me!
In response to your CB question.... You can see there is nothing going the other way... to report the wreak... I'm amazed some of them even got stopped on that surface!!! My brother was an over the road driver and I KNOW how well he can drive... But these people still impress me..
Edited by komet. 2015-04-17 8:38 PM
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Texas Tenderheart
Posts: 6715
Location: Red Raiderland | The second video the guy says something about them not using their radios. He also says several didn't make it. I hope he is wrong. What a frightening feeling to be one of the ones sitting like a lame duck.  |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | He was being pretty negative as I think most of us would be seeing those kind of wrecks in person. A lot of the drivers had to be cut out, some went up under other trailers and even into their trailers. No one was killed though and I have pulled up several stories. Haven't heard of anyone dying of their injuries yet either which is a miracle. |
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Texas Tenderheart
Posts: 6715
Location: Red Raiderland | wyoming barrel racer - 2015-04-17 8:46 PM He was being pretty negative as I think most of us would be seeing those kind of wrecks in person. A lot of the drivers had to be cut out, some went up under other trailers and even into their trailers. No one was killed though and I have pulled up several stories. Haven't heard of anyone dying of their injuries yet either which is a miracle.
This is great news!  |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Kaycee - 2015-04-17 8:43 PM
The second video the guy says something about them not using their radios. He also says several didn't make it. I hope he is wrong. What a frightening feeling to be one of the ones sitting like a lame duck.
Having spent a lot of time on the road with CBs in the 70s and 80s in all weather conditions... I can shed some light on this.... First of all... the people IN the pileup are busy looking behind them for someone else about to hit them...You have to look in all directions in a situation like this.... Too busy to talk on the CB.... But even then, Those trailers block the signal so it will not reach out very far behind them on a clear day... Less on a day like this... and like I said.. the whole time the video played looking across the two lanes going the other direction, I didn't see anyone going the other way... So I'm guessing this was not the only road blockage in that area at that time... |
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Texas Tenderheart
Posts: 6715
Location: Red Raiderland | komet. - 2015-04-17 9:13 PM Kaycee - 2015-04-17 8:43 PM The second video the guy says something about them not using their radios. He also says several didn't make it. I hope he is wrong. What a frightening feeling to be one of the ones sitting like a lame duck. Having spent a lot of time on the road with CBs in the 70s and 80s in all weather conditions... I can shed some light on this.... First of all... the people IN the pileup are busy looking behind them for someone else about to hit them...You have to look in all directions in a situation like this.... Too busy to talk on the CB.... But even then, Those trailers block the signal so it will not reach out very far behind them on a clear day... Less on a day like this... and like I said.. the whole time the video played looking across the two lanes going the other direction, I didn't see anyone going the other way... So I'm guessing this was not the only road blockage in that area at that time...
I didn't know the signals get jammed in these situations. I also wasn't thinking that the ones that JUST GOT HIT would be able to radio it but those that were in the front seems like they would.  Good insight though Komet. I sure hope the guy videoing called 911 before videoing. |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Kaycee - 2015-04-17 9:17 PM
komet. - 2015-04-17 9:13 PM Kaycee - 2015-04-17 8:43 PM The second video the guy says something about them not using their radios. He also says several didn't make it. I hope he is wrong. What a frightening feeling to be one of the ones sitting like a lame duck. Having spent a lot of time on the road with CBs in the 70s and 80s in all weather conditions... I can shed some light on this.... First of all... the people IN the pileup are busy looking behind them for someone else about to hit them...You have to look in all directions in a situation like this.... Too busy to talk on the CB.... But even then, Those trailers block the signal so it will not reach out very far behind them on a clear day... Less on a day like this... and like I said.. the whole time the video played looking across the two lanes going the other direction, I didn't see anyone going the other way... So I'm guessing this was not the only road blockage in that area at that time...
Yes... In quiet (no skip) conditions the average (5 watt) CB will broadcast 20 miles to the sides and in front of a tractor trailer... But the trailer blocks the line of sight signal behind them because it stands higher than the antenna..
Edited by komet. 2015-04-17 10:33 PM
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Rescue workers were already on the scene in both videos. The short video you could hear the desperation and helplessness in her voice as she kept saying "slow down!!"
They were unable to be at the back due to the mess blocking the road and ditches and also being in the back was the worst place to be at that moment, but they were making their way through the mess cutting people out and doing what they could. I bet the Cheyenne/Laramie hospital staff was busy busy. |
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Texas Tenderheart
Posts: 6715
Location: Red Raiderland | wyoming barrel racer - 2015-04-17 10:34 PM Rescue workers were already on the scene in both videos. The short video you could hear the desperation and helplessness in her voice as she kept saying "slow down!!"
They were unable to be at the back due to the mess blocking the road and ditches and also being in the back was the worst place to be at that moment, but they were making their way through the mess cutting people out and doing what they could. I bet the Cheyenne/Laramie hospital staff was busy busy.
I had my volume muted on the first video....doh! I didn't listen to any audio so here I am  |
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Texas Tenderheart
Posts: 6715
Location: Red Raiderland | komet. - 2015-04-17 10:31 PM Kaycee - 2015-04-17 9:17 PM komet. - 2015-04-17 9:13 PM Kaycee - 2015-04-17 8:43 PM The second video the guy says something about them not using their radios. He also says several didn't make it. I hope he is wrong. What a frightening feeling to be one of the ones sitting like a lame duck. Having spent a lot of time on the road with CBs in the 70s and 80s in all weather conditions... I can shed some light on this.... First of all... the people IN the pileup are busy looking behind them for someone else about to hit them...You have to look in all directions in a situation like this.... Too busy to talk on the CB.... But even then, Those trailers block the signal so it will not reach out very far behind them on a clear day... Less on a day like this... and like I said.. the whole time the video played looking across the two lanes going the other direction, I didn't see anyone going the other way... So I'm guessing this was not the only road blockage in that area at that time... Yes... In quiet (no skip ) conditions the average (5 watt ) CB will broadcast 20 miles to the sides and in front of a tractor trailer... But the trailer blocks the line of sight signal behind them because it stands higher than the antenna..
Good info, I was totally unaware of that.  |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | This would be a good training video for drivers. My husband drives truck and was in Wy. yesterday but he wasnt involved in this frey. There is so much to learn from this video watcching this unfold. So many were obviously going way to fast for the conditions. And those cars, good grief dont pull all the way up in there to be the next pinned in and smashed. That camper van had the right idea, back the heck up on the shoulder and get plenty of distance so as to not be next. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Kaycee - 2015-04-17 9:52 PM komet. - 2015-04-17 10:31 PM Kaycee - 2015-04-17 9:17 PM komet. - 2015-04-17 9:13 PM Kaycee - 2015-04-17 8:43 PM The second video the guy says something about them not using their radios. He also says several didn't make it. I hope he is wrong. What a frightening feeling to be one of the ones sitting like a lame duck. Having spent a lot of time on the road with CBs in the 70s and 80s in all weather conditions... I can shed some light on this.... First of all... the people IN the pileup are busy looking behind them for someone else about to hit them...You have to look in all directions in a situation like this.... Too busy to talk on the CB.... But even then, Those trailers block the signal so it will not reach out very far behind them on a clear day... Less on a day like this... and like I said.. the whole time the video played looking across the two lanes going the other direction, I didn't see anyone going the other way... So I'm guessing this was not the only road blockage in that area at that time... Yes... In quiet (no skip ) conditions the average (5 watt ) CB will broadcast 20 miles to the sides and in front of a tractor trailer... But the trailer blocks the line of sight signal behind them because it stands higher than the antenna..
Edited by wyoming barrel racer 2015-04-17 11:17 PM
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Kaycee - 2015-04-17 9:50 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2015-04-17 10:34 PM Rescue workers were already on the scene in both videos. The short video you could hear the desperation and helplessness in her voice as she kept saying "slow down!!"
They were unable to be at the back due to the mess blocking the road and ditches and also being in the back was the worst place to be at that moment, but they were making their way through the mess cutting people out and doing what they could. I bet the Cheyenne/Laramie hospital staff was busy busy. I had my volume muted on the first video....doh! I didn't listen to any audio so here I am
It was horrible. You could hear every smash. |
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Texas Tenderheart
Posts: 6715
Location: Red Raiderland | ThreeCorners - 2015-04-17 11:10 PM This would be a good training video for drivers. My husband drives truck and was in Wy. yesterday but he wasnt involved in this frey. There is so much to learn from this video watcching this unfold. So many were obviously going way to fast for the conditions. And those cars, good grief dont pull all the way up in there to be the next pinned in and smashed. That camper van had the right idea, back the heck up on the shoulder and get plenty of distance so as to not be next.
I think you are right on with a training video. I was yelling at the computer screen for the ones coming up to get out of the road completely! I got stuck on I-20 in far east Texas with a blowout on the trailer that I could not keep limping on and there was a cement barricade keeping me only slightly on the right shoulder. I sat waiting for a DPS officer to escort me safely to the next exit which was over the hill but I had no idea it was there. It was a looong 30 minute wait as the semis SPED past me. I had two horses in a three horse and felt so vulnerable. I can't believe I didn't get hit or grazed. The officer couldn't believe the amount of sparks coming from that wheel when he followed me to the exit over the hill.  |
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Texas Tenderheart
Posts: 6715
Location: Red Raiderland | wyoming barrel racer - 2015-04-17 11:17 PM Kaycee - 2015-04-17 9:50 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2015-04-17 10:34 PM Rescue workers were already on the scene in both videos. The short video you could hear the desperation and helplessness in her voice as she kept saying "slow down!!"
They were unable to be at the back due to the mess blocking the road and ditches and also being in the back was the worst place to be at that moment, but they were making their way through the mess cutting people out and doing what they could. I bet the Cheyenne/Laramie hospital staff was busy busy. I had my volume muted on the first video....doh! I didn't listen to any audio so here I am
Kind of glad my audio was off. Ugh. |
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Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| I've driven that stretch more times than I can count, and I have seen it when it should have been closed, but this scenario was beyond that point- why didn't the hwy get closed before all of this happened? Did it just start dumping snow without forecast? I don't understand it...... in the pics you can't even ientify the hwy, I just can't believe it wasn't closed before this all happened? |
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Holy Fruit Loops!
Posts: 1708
Location: Colorado | trickster j - 2015-04-18 12:16 AM I've driven that stretch more times than I can count, and I have seen it when it should have been closed, but this scenario was beyond that point- why didn't the hwy get closed before all of this happened? Did it just start dumping snow without forecast? I don't understand it...... in the pics you can't even ientify the hwy, I just can't believe it wasn't closed before this all happened?
I have been on that stretch when they close the gates on either end and you are on your own. They do the same on I25 and 85 coming to Colorado.
Nothing better then sliding into CO only to find the gates closed and Locked.
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Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| Stitch4k9 - 2015-04-17 11:23 PM trickster j - 2015-04-18 12:16 AM I've driven that stretch more times than I can count, and I have seen it when it should have been closed, but this scenario was beyond that point- why didn't the hwy get closed before all of this happened? Did it just start dumping snow without forecast? I don't understand it...... in the pics you can't even ientify the hwy, I just can't believe it wasn't closed before this all happened? I have been on that stretch when they close the gates on either end and you are on your own. They do the same on I25 and 85 coming to Colorado.
Nothing better then sliding into CO only to find the gates closed and Locked.
karen
Is that what happened here? They usually do that before this happens.... I think someone was asleep at the wheel in this situation... unless it just tore down off the mountain unexpectedly. Those semis are always driving too fast on these roads- they think their weight will hold them solid, but it doesn't when it runs into an object in front of it.. |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | ThreeCorners - 2015-04-17 11:10 PM
This would be a good training video for drivers. My husband drives truck and was in Wy. yesterday but he wasnt involved in this frey. There is so much to learn from this video watcching this unfold. So many were obviously going way to fast for the conditions. And those cars, good grief dont pull all the way up in there to be the next pinned in and smashed. That camper van had the right idea, back the heck up on the shoulder and get plenty of distance so as to not be next.
Do they have anti-lock brakes on those things yet? Because that's the only way I can see those trucks slowing down that fast on snow... |
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Holy Fruit Loops!
Posts: 1708
Location: Colorado | trickster j - 2015-04-18 12:33 AM Stitch4k9 - 2015-04-17 11:23 PM trickster j - 2015-04-18 12:16 AM I've driven that stretch more times than I can count, and I have seen it when it should have been closed, but this scenario was beyond that point- why didn't the hwy get closed before all of this happened? Did it just start dumping snow without forecast? I don't understand it...... in the pics you can't even ientify the hwy, I just can't believe it wasn't closed before this all happened? I have been on that stretch when they close the gates on either end and you are on your own. They do the same on I25 and 85 coming to Colorado.
Nothing better then sliding into CO only to find the gates closed and Locked.
karen
I am in Northern CO and we were ready for this stuff. But it went from rain to corn snow to slush to snow in minutes. Anyone who has lived in this area for more than a year knows spring storms can change in a heart beat.
But watching the video shows some of those trucks were just not paying attention. That car hauler is lucky he didn't kill someone. Hopefully he learned a valuable lesson.
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Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| Stitch4k9 - 2015-04-18 6:07 AM trickster j - 2015-04-18 12:33 AM Stitch4k9 - 2015-04-17 11:23 PM trickster j - 2015-04-18 12:16 AM I've driven that stretch more times than I can count, and I have seen it when it should have been closed, but this scenario was beyond that point- why didn't the hwy get closed before all of this happened? Did it just start dumping snow without forecast? I don't understand it...... in the pics you can't even ientify the hwy, I just can't believe it wasn't closed before this all happened? I have been on that stretch when they close the gates on either end and you are on your own. They do the same on I25 and 85 coming to Colorado.
Nothing better then sliding into CO only to find the gates closed and Locked.
karen
But watching the video shows some of those trucks were just not paying attention. That car hauler is lucky he didn't kill someone. Hopefully he learned a valuable lesson.
karen
Edited by trickster j 2015-04-18 8:25 AM
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 Living on the edge of common sense
Posts: 24138
Location: Carpenter, WY | I was at the hospital for a appointment when they started bringing these people in. It was a real wet slushy snow. My own opinion is that when you go eastbound out of Laramie to Cheyenne it is a very steep grade and the trucks have to just creep up the hill. When you get to the summit it is downhill for miles and the trucks are balls to the walls and heaven forbid they use the brakes to slow down. I don't know if it's lack of sleep or making up time for the uphill side. After working at a semi repair place for a few years, there are alot of these drivers who have no business driving a truck IMO and they must have gotten their CDL from a crakerjack box. Can't speak English and are in such bad physical shape that even with my cancer I'm better off than they are. Now, that's not all of them, but enough of them to be a problem, again JMO.
On our way home from the hospital we took all the side roads so has not to have to get close to the semi's. Even with the all wheel drive we were sliding in the slush.
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 Cinnamon Honey One
Posts: 6549
Location: between here and there | I'm with you Meg on this. If you drive much on the interstates and you look at the drivers, it's not unusual to see them texting and even READING BOOKS. Then put in the ones that are foreign and like Teehaha said, got their license from a crackerjack box. Some probably had empty trailers too vs. loaded and no way to stop quickly. I avoid interstates with all the idiot truck drivers. Used to be the other way around!
About the injuries, the 1st video, I swear that guy taking it said there was 2 dead. I hope that was wrong and in chaos, it sure could have been. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | My husband says the drug use is rampant still in freight haulers, probably most of them, but he despises freight haulers. They are the ones that will blow by you and then pull in front just to hit the brakes. Keep in mine he usually has a Cattle pot full of cows so slamming on his brakes is not an option. The language barrier is an issue too. That road probably should have been closed, the forcast called for that weather so no surprises there. I guess that is why I am so miffed about one after another came slamming into the crunch.
Everywhere I look it still says no one was killed. I think the guy videoing was just guessing by the looks of some of the cabs. But a lot of the drivers got out and as more kept hitting them, their cabs got destroyed. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Here is the latest http://www.weather.com/news/news/snow-blinds-drivers-along-i-80-in-wyoming |
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Cinnamon Honey One
Posts: 6549
Location: between here and there | Good to hear that! I kept hearing 2 on a couple videos. What a mess.
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 I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| Unfortunately there are many, many behind the wheel of a semi that have no business being there. They want to blame it on drugs, sleep apnea, running too hard, etc. when the truth is, there are not many REAL truck drivers out there any more. The government is putting so many regulations in place that there is little money running OTR. So our government helps big carriers RECRUIT people from other countries to come and "make big money driving the big rigs". The government pays for their training and helps to subsidize their paycheck for the first 6 months to a year (at least they have done this in the past). Now you have drivers out there who can speak very little of the language and probably read even less. Hubby has his CB off or turned down more often then that, as channels are often dedicated to this language or that. Not to mention the crap that one has to listen to for mile upon mile. So there is not the old standby of going to channel 19 for road reports like there used to be. When I go in to renew our IRP plates 8 out of 10 people or more speak with a heavy accent, more often than not, an Eastern European one.
I went to truck driving school for 6 weeks a long time ago. Thank God I got to get actual experience driving with my hubby before getting turned loose by myself. Now days you can get a few weeks "training" and get your CDL and have at it. No experience with bad conditions whatsoever.
Watching these videos as it happens terrifies me. Hubby has been shut down up there for days, the past two springs because of accidents and conditions like these. To think, he could be in the middle of all of that, even if stopping successfully, to get hammered again and again from behind. Watching it happen, all I could think of is as soon as you wrecked, you had better get out, and far away or you would "get dead". |
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 Saint Stacey
| We had some friends over Saturday night and he us a cattle hauler. The subject came up because our daughter had left that day for Casper. She was told to avoid Cheyenne at all cost. Anyhow, our friend was saying that most freight haulers have no business trucking. They run on cruise control and few speak English or even Spanish. Most are of Arabic background now. Also most freight haulers are straight out of trucking school with no experience. Watching that video you can tell that those truckers WERE on cruise and going WAY too fast for those conditions. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Very true. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 317
Location: Idaho | We call these guys supertruckers....some of the truck drivers out there drive WAY too fast for conditions. |
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 Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | Just wow. And here's another one from today!
http://county10.com/2015/04/20/oh-oh-another-crash-has-closed-i-80-between-rawlins-and-laramie/
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Saint Stacey
| Yep. Another one on I80 about 20 miles west of Laramie. 15 vehicles and semis involved. Ground blizzards, black ice and excessive speeds. Unbelievable. |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | On last weeks crash, my husband talked to the Wal Mart driver that was in that video but wasnt involved. He did it right!! He said they had a sign posted for 45 mph so he was doing 45. ALL those trucks involved passed him he said doing 65 - 70 mph. He said it was nuts. One truck after another just blew by him inspite of the posted speed and low n behold, there they were in all that mangled mess. Wal Mart has very strict policies with their drivers, trucks are governed and logs are by computer. No messing up period or your gone but thats why they are the top paying driver jobs in the country as well. They only hire the best of the best.
Edited by ThreeCorners 2015-04-20 3:54 PM
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 Thick and Wavy
Posts: 6102
Location: Nebraska | having just lost a friend in a horrible crash that could have been prevented on Easter, that video made me sick. Getting somewhere faster is not worth risking your own life or someone else's. I wish people would learn but unfortunately most don't care. |
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Living on the edge of common sense
Posts: 24138
Location: Carpenter, WY |  |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | teehaha - 2015-04-20 4:10 PM
Yep another gross wreck. Sad as there was a casuality this time. |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Oh geezzzz. That's todays wreck? Now all those rigs are burning? So I take it I 80 will be closed for quite some time again? Is there a updated news story? |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Oh wow another one,,, how scary  |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | ThreeCorners - 2015-04-20 5:38 PM Oh geezzzz. That's todays wreck? Now all those rigs are burning? So I take it I 80 will be closed for quite some time again? Is there a updated news story?
New set of trucks only this time one of them was a tanker. Sounds like speed was an issue here as well as bad roads and poor visibility. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
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Living on the edge of common sense
Posts: 24138
Location: Carpenter, WY | here's the article from today's paper
http://www.wyomingnews.com/articles/2015/04/21/news/01top_04-21-15.txt
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Texas Tenderheart
Posts: 6715
Location: Red Raiderland | Scary news about the drivers that are being hired. We are all effected by this. When we stop at truck stops I see all the drivers and most do not look American. I never thought about the language barrier. |
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 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | The sad thing is this is giving all truckers a bad rap. My hubby has trucked for years hauling jet fuel and other flammables. He along with all the other drivers from the company are excellent at their jobs. |
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 Hot Dispatcher
Posts: 10185
Location: Utah | I dispatch Highway patrol, medical and fire for a section of I80 in Utah. I know from my experience there are quite a few drivers these days that don't speak English and don't know how to put chains on either. When we get a 911 call about an accident we can talk to a driver and they don't even know what they are hauling. I have drove this road a bunch and know that the weather can change in a second, but the Highway patrol had the weather advisory in effect yesterday and the driver that caused the accident ignored the signs and was going way to fast for the conditions. My brother is a truck driver and I know the majority e still good drivers better than most passenger car drivers. |
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The I-80 pile up of semis and cars :(