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 Jr. Detective
    
Location: Beggs, OK | Please pay close attention to your horses behavior...and never doubt that it could be a feed issue. Even in the safest of feed mills there can be mixing errors with ingredients that are not technically toxic to horses, but can be if for whatever reason too much is added. If you're making sure that your horse has plenty of good quality forage, clean water, and is fed on a regular schedule, colic shouldn't be a common occurrence.
Even if you only have one horse out of 15 with a belly ache, it can be a feed issue. If you have one that won't eat...it doesn't mean that he has ulcers. Horses are very sensitive and can sometimes tell that there's something in the feed that isn't right. We all know this well from trying to get them to eat medication...think about that the next time you have one walk away from his feed. With feed contamination you can see any number of symptoms:
Walking away from feed
Laying down after eating
Any symptoms that we usually attribute to ulcers
Muscle tremors
Hind end weakness
Incoordination
Tight muscles as if they're "tying up"
Unexplained weightloss
Drawn up appearance in the flanks
General lethargy
Rough hair coat
Muscle loss
Any symptoms that we generally attribute to EPM
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | I submitted before I was done...
If you even suspect that you have a feed problem have your feed tested! ...or contact me and I will make sure that it gets tested. The only way to fix this problem is to boycott the companies that do not take our concerns seriously and to save the uneducated horse owners from themselves by making sure that the information and test results are available to those who are affected. |
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  Warmblood with Wings
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Location: Florida.. | Stop settling for "it may be EPM" even if test is negative.. test your feed!! To many incidences of EPM and people treat and horse may or may not respond and months later same symptoms .. |
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Blessed 
Location: Here |  |
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Location: Here | Bibliafarm - 2015-04-20 10:06 AM Stop settling for "it may be EPM" even if test is negative.. test your feed!! To many incidences of EPM and people treat and horse may or may not respond and months later same symptoms ..
Exactly!!! I hope more and more hear this battle cry and become educated ....
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | What does it cost to have your feed tested? |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
Location: In The Land of Cotton | It was $110.00 for my feed to be tested at Auburn University. |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | Iowa State uses the most thorough method I've found and they charge $100. I'll be sending them some samples this week. |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Thanks for the reply.  |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | rachellyn80 - 2015-04-20 4:37 PM
Iowa State uses the most thorough method I've found and they charge $100. I'll be sending them some samples this week.
I WANTED TO THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOUR HARD WORK AND DEDICATION TO THIS MATTER. YOU HAVE HELPED MANY HORSES ALONG YOUR JOURNEY AND FOR THAT I SAY THANK YOU. |
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Blessed
Location: Here | jake16 - 2015-04-20 6:18 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-04-20 4:37 PM Iowa State uses the most thorough method I've found and they charge $100. I'll be sending them some samples this week. I WANTED TO THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOUR HARD WORK AND DEDICATION TO THIS MATTER. YOU HAVE HELPED MANY HORSES ALONG YOUR JOURNEY AND FOR THAT I SAY THANK YOU.
Well said Jake |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | jake16 - 2015-04-20 6:18 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-04-20 4:37 PM Iowa State uses the most thorough method I've found and they charge $100. I'll be sending them some samples this week. I WANTED TO THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOUR HARD WORK AND DEDICATION TO THIS MATTER. YOU HAVE HELPED MANY HORSES ALONG YOUR JOURNEY AND FOR THAT I SAY THANK YOU.
Thank you...it seems that there are people that lurk on this page and think that it's all blown out of proportion. They are listening to what the feed manufacturers are telling them and doing no research for themselves. I asked one of them yesterday point blank if they knew how a mill "cleans" out the system after they run a batch of medicated feed.....NO ANSWER. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| I, too, would like to thank you rachellyn80, SG and winwillows for all your work in helping us find the truth about our feeds. Since I changed my feed, my gelding is looking good again and I feel like I am able to make sound decisions feeding wise. It's not easy figuring out what to feed when you have knowledge about how the feed is made. I think that is why people want to say we are making too big a deal about feed safety. |
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | I also want to thank you as well. My mare suffered from mystery belly aches for as long as I've had her. Knock on wood, since I pulled her from Triple Crown Senior and put her on Tribute, she nas not had any episodes. I would have never suspected her feed (especially since TC is a reputable brand and is almost $25 a bag) without having read these threads and the FB page. |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | I'm so glad that we are all seeing some positive changes! The scariest part of all of this to me is that random sample testing does not include anything that shouldn't be in our feed. The only time feed is tested for contaminants is if there is suspicion. We must be diligent in testing if you think that there is even the slightest possibility that your feed could be causing a problem. I don't think that there are nearly as many truly "hard keepers" in the world as we think there are. From what I've seen these horses are very likely affected by this problem and might be dealing with malabsorption issues caused by intestinal inflammation. Chronic low dose exposure to antibiotics that may not be toxic to horses at that level will still kill off the good bacteria in their gut....Ionophores are not the only problem. |
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Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | Does anyone know of a place I can send my TC feed to get it tests for mineral imbalance? Specificially sulfur toxicity? |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| For testing to be even a little effective you need to check every batch that you purchase (before you feed it). The sacks that have the same batch number on them will have the same test results.
Texas A & M tests feed on a regular basis to make sure that the analysis matches what is on the tag. There is a website that shows how many violations each kind of feed has. I am fairly sure that toxic substances are check also. I doubt that the tests would indicate the presents of the protozoan that causes EPM though. |
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Blessed
Location: Here | rachellyn80 - 2015-04-21 9:22 AM I'm so glad that we are all seeing some positive changes! The scariest part of all of this to me is that random sample testing does not include anything that shouldn't be in our feed. The only time feed is tested for contaminants is if there is suspicion. We must be diligent in testing if you think that there is even the slightest possibility that your feed could be causing a problem. I don't think that there are nearly as many truly "hard keepers" in the world as we think there are. From what I've seen these horses are very likely affected by this problem and might be dealing with malabsorption issues caused by intestinal inflammation. Chronic low dose exposure to antibiotics that may not be toxic to horses at that level will still kill off the good bacteria in their gut....Ionophores are not the only problem.
Ok light bulb moment. Without proper healthy gut flora you can get increased colonic ulcers, cramping, diarrhea, constipation, compromised immune system, nutient uptake problems etc. interesting big picture view
Edited by SG. 2015-04-21 10:56 AM
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | Murphy - 2015-04-21 10:20 AM Does anyone know of a place I can send my TC feed to get it tests for mineral imbalance? Specificially sulfur toxicity?
OADDL at OSU was the lab that found the toxic level of sulfur in the Triple Crown Sr that I mentioned to you. Dr. Sandra Morgan or Dr. Grant Rezabek |
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Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | rachellyn80 - 2015-04-21 11:55 AM
Murphy - 2015-04-21 10:20 AM Does anyone know of a place I can send my TC feed to get it tests for mineral imbalance? Specificially sulfur toxicity?
OADDL at OSU was the lab that found the toxic level of sulfur in the Triple Crown Sr that I mentioned to you. Dr. Sandra Morgan or Dr. Grant Rezabek
Thank you! |
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 Regular
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Have you thought that their could be grazing toxins problems since horses graze far more than they should eat grain? It might be chemicals for weed control or general toxicity from fertilizer? GMO ingredients in the feed. It could even be over spray from neighbors if you do not spray the pasture. Do you have your hay and pasture grass tested yearly? I wonder because of the fescue problem in brood mares and how it effects the placenta.
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | My intent is not to mass diagnose...only to enlighten, inform, and raise awareness. I have questioned all of these things at some point in the past few months...The only thing I know is that I'm narrowing down a list of definite culprits for my horses conditions with information that is backed up with suggestions from veterinary toxicologists. |
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I just read the headlines
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| Zebra racer - 2015-04-21 11:16 AM
Have you thought that their could be grazing toxins problems since horses graze far more than they should eat grain? It might be chemicals for weed control or general toxicity from fertilizer? GMO ingredients in the feed. It could even be over spray from neighbors if you do not spray the pasture. Do you have your hay and pasture grass tested yearly? I wonder because of the fescue problem in brood mares and how it effects the placenta.
Yes I do worry about this. We live surrounded by farm fields. Consequently, we are sprayed alot. For this reason, I refuse to let my husband cut down the mesquite trees that line our fence because we get a east wind and the tress are on the east fence. I also periodically use Animal Element detox on my animals and me. I feel it really does help detox us all. We don't fertilize the pasture, either, with chemicals. I feed Renew Gold partly because it is Non GMO. But I think people often forget the importance of keeping those teeth in great shape, too. I had an unthrifty gelding that had had his teeth done maybe 6 months before, but winwillows told me to get them checked. Sure enough, he had some hooks that needed attention. It was amazing how fast he turned around. That was the only thing I changed. |
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 Accident Prone
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Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | GLP - 2015-04-21 3:13 PM Zebra racer - 2015-04-21 11:16 AM Have you thought that their could be grazing toxins problems since horses graze far more than they should eat grain? It might be chemicals for weed control or general toxicity from fertilizer? GMO ingredients in the feed. It could even be over spray from neighbors if you do not spray the pasture. Do you have your hay and pasture grass tested yearly? I wonder because of the fescue problem in brood mares and how it effects the placenta. Yes I do worry about this. We live surrounded by farm fields. Consequently, we are sprayed alot. For this reason, I refuse to let my husband cut down the mesquite trees that line our fence because we get a east wind and the tress are on the east fence. I also periodically use Animal Element detox on my animals and me. I feel it really does help detox us all. We don't fertilize the pasture, either, with chemicals. I feed Renew Gold partly because it is Non GMO. But I think people often forget the importance of keeping those teeth in great shape, too. I had an unthrifty gelding that had had his teeth done maybe 6 months before, but winwillows told me to get them checked. Sure enough, he had some hooks that needed attention. It was amazing how fast he turned around. That was the only thing I changed.
If they're drifting on you and refuse to stop doing it, you can file a complaint with your state's regulatory agency--in Arkansas, that's the State Plant Board. Drift should not be happening because it's wasteful and can be harmful to other people's health and property--there are methods to minimize it unless the wind is too high to be making applications to begin with or the temperature change at a certain time of day creates an inversion. We have to put off applications all the time to avoid drifting onto neighboring fields or houses. You wait until the conditions are right. Now, that said, there are some chemicals that a small amount of residue is going to disperse into the air and stink to high heaven. Cotton defoliant is one. It has to make contact to damage anything, but the smell goes everywhere. Chicken crap fertilizer is another. LOL |
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Accident Prone
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Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2015/04/14/1419685112 Speaking of GMO, it turns out what we're doing isn't so un-natural after all. Scientists recently mapped the sweet potato genome, and it turns out that they are transgenic and have been for a very long time. The bacteria at some point in the distant past transferred DNA and the traits expressed were then selected for by farmers over the years.
Try not to laugh at pnas.  |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Zebra racer - 2015-04-21 11:16 AM Have you thought that their could be grazing toxins problems since horses graze far more than they should eat grain? It might be chemicals for weed control or general toxicity from fertilizer? GMO ingredients in the feed. It could even be over spray from neighbors if you do not spray the pasture. Do you have your hay and pasture grass tested yearly? I wonder because of the fescue problem in brood mares and how it effects the placenta.
My horse has a dry lot and doesn't have the luxury of being able to graze. He developed very bad gas and lost weight and just looked like crap. I changed his hay, pulled him off of his supplements and he still had terrible gas. It was when I took him off of the Triple Crown Sr is when the gas ended. I called Triple Crown and gave them info off of the bag and they told me to throw it out and gave me a certificate for a replacement. I would have rather had my money refunded. I'm feeding the replacement to our deer. |
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 Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | SG. - 2015-04-21 10:53 AM rachellyn80 - 2015-04-21 9:22 AM I'm so glad that we are all seeing some positive changes! The scariest part of all of this to me is that random sample testing does not include anything that shouldn't be in our feed. The only time feed is tested for contaminants is if there is suspicion. We must be diligent in testing if you think that there is even the slightest possibility that your feed could be causing a problem. I don't think that there are nearly as many truly "hard keepers" in the world as we think there are. From what I've seen these horses are very likely affected by this problem and might be dealing with malabsorption issues caused by intestinal inflammation. Chronic low dose exposure to antibiotics that may not be toxic to horses at that level will still kill off the good bacteria in their gut....Ionophores are not the only problem. Ok light bulb moment. Without proper healthy gut flora you can get increased colonic ulcers, cramping, diarrhea, constipation, compromised immune system, nutient uptake problems etc. interesting big picture view
To add to this even a bit more, in researching what has been going on with my horse and his respiratory issues, I was advised to give him 30cc of French's yellow mustard for 5 days in a row, and with it I did see improvement. Through that I began researching what is in the mustard that is making the difference in him and found that it is problem the curcurmin in it. Through that finding and discussing Curcurmin with canchasr1, and finding the success her mom has had using it for inflammation and other allergic responses, I found this company and their supplements. The leader in this research is a veterinarian and the reason he got started on this is exactly the reason I was researching....that all of us are researching actually....we take a horse in that is showing a symptom, which our vet treats, but we never really get to the bottom of what is causing the symptom. We put a band-aid on to treat the symptom we can see and roll on. Well I decided I wanted to know what was causing all of these symptoms, as my horse was unresponsive and unimproved with corticosteroids and other traditional treatments and was very sick. Through emailing Dr. Schell and him actually explaining things to me how the "leaky gut" and weakened immune system can and does affect every aspect of our horse from allergies, to inflamed joints, to laminitis, and on and on. I have purchased the supplements based on what he advised. My horse is also already on the Bluebonnet thanks to SG, and i'm hopeful that after a while we get healthy without the use of steroids and other drugs.
Read this and see if this doesn't describe exactly what we're discussing here.....just not giving the reason why the intestines aren't functioning like they should. Read the research that has been done on curcurmin and how it affects the body. I'm hoping this is one more step in getting my horse where he needs to be without rushing it. Actually allowing him to heal from the inside out and giving him the time to actually get healthy. http://www.nouvelleresearch.com/index.php/about-us/our-story |
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Blessed
Location: Here | Thank you Herbie for sharing this info!! Yeah for you finding answers. I am simply amazed at how much better my horses look since I changed feeds.
We are making a difference with sharing this knowledge so keep sharing
as far as drift is concerned 3fl is very correct. Drift isn't and shouldn't be an issue. |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | SG. - 2015-04-21 5:10 PM Thank you Herbie for sharing this info!! Yeah for you finding answers. I am simply amazed at how much better my horses look since I changed feeds.
We are making a difference with sharing this knowledge so keep sharing
as far as drift is concerned 3fl is very correct. Drift isn't and shouldn't be an issue.
I don't know if it's THE answer but I'm hopeful that it gets us on a straighter path than where we are at now. I think we are so quick as horse owners to want the quick fix and the immediate answer instead of really thinking about the causes sometimes. We want our horses back performing as quickly as possible and vets are willing to accommodate us through a quick fix. I'm hoping that in really thinking about the cause of my horses issues and trying to be patient in the treatment that I can both educate myself in the long run and have a horse who is healthy and steroid free . Fingers crossed! |
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Blessed
Location: Here | Herbie - 2015-04-21 7:26 PM SG. - 2015-04-21 5:10 PM Thank you Herbie for sharing this info!! Yeah for you finding answers. I am simply amazed at how much better my horses look since I changed feeds.
We are making a difference with sharing this knowledge so keep sharing
as far as drift is concerned 3fl is very correct. Drift isn't and shouldn't be an issue. I don't know if it's THE answer but I'm hopeful that it gets us on a straighter path than where we are at now. I think we are so quick as horse owners to want the quick fix and the immediate answer instead of really thinking about the causes sometimes. We want our horses back performing as quickly as possible and vets are willing to accommodate us through a quick fix. I'm hoping that in really thinking about the cause of my horses issues and trying to be patient in the treatment that I can both educate myself in the long run and have a horse who is healthy and steroid free . Fingers crossed!
I hope so too!!! |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-21 4:20 PM
GLP - 2015-04-21 3:13 PM Zebra racer - 2015-04-21 11:16 AM Have you thought that their could be grazing toxins problems since horses graze far more than they should eat grain? It might be chemicals for weed control or general toxicity from fertilizer? GMO ingredients in the feed. It could even be over spray from neighbors if you do not spray the pasture. Do you have your hay and pasture grass tested yearly? I wonder because of the fescue problem in brood mares and how it effects the placenta. Yes I do worry about this. We live surrounded by farm fields. Consequently, we are sprayed alot. For this reason, I refuse to let my husband cut down the mesquite trees that line our fence because we get a east wind and the tress are on the east fence. I also periodically use Animal Element detox on my animals and me. I feel it really does help detox us all. We don't fertilize the pasture, either, with chemicals. I feed Renew Gold partly because it is Non GMO. But I think people often forget the importance of keeping those teeth in great shape, too. I had an unthrifty gelding that had had his teeth done maybe 6 months before, but winwillows told me to get them checked. Sure enough, he had some hooks that needed attention. It was amazing how fast he turned around. That was the only thing I changed.
All I know is the crop dusting company used to call me to let me know they were spraying that day. They would tell me to stay inside while they were spraying. This year the farmer called before he had his crop sprayed. When the kids were little we would watch through the window as the crop duster flew almost level with the windows. The kids would wave at him, hoping he could see them,lol. I assume they were telling me this because of any possible drift. I appreciate that they call me. I didn't mean to sound mad, just covering all my bases health-wise. |
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Regular
Posts: 63
| rachellyn80 - 2015-04-21 1:55 PM My intent is not to mass diagnose...only to enlighten, inform, and raise awareness. I have questioned all of these things at some point in the past few months...The only thing I know is that I'm narrowing down a list of definite culprits for my horses conditions with information that is backed up with suggestions from veterinary toxicologists.
I appreciate your vigor. I am not saying you are wrong about it always being feed related but you have to agree 80% of horses primary diet should be grazing of pasture or hay. I am not saying it is overspray iether. I was just throwing out theory for discussion. For SG to say it isnt overspray is a bit presumptious as well. Just becuase you state something matter of factly doenst make it so. I was simply asking if you have tested your hay or pasture to rule out other possible intake issues? Backed up and with suggestions do not equal fact. You are stating they agree it could be but those arent things that make miedical fact. So maybe this ADM issue that spread on Facebook several months ago will enlighten a new set of studies and then there can be cofirmed medical testing and facts. Becuase my guess is once horse owners make better choices to use ionophore free mills, we will still have many colics and deaths that go unexplained? |
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Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
Location: In The Land of Cotton | Zebra racer - 2015-04-22 9:50 AM rachellyn80 - 2015-04-21 1:55 PM My intent is not to mass diagnose...only to enlighten, inform, and raise awareness. I have questioned all of these things at some point in the past few months...The only thing I know is that I'm narrowing down a list of definite culprits for my horses conditions with information that is backed up with suggestions from veterinary toxicologists. I appreciate your vigor. I am not saying you are wrong about it always being feed related but you have to agree 80% of horses primary diet should be grazing of pasture or hay. I am not saying it is overspray iether. I was just throwing out theory for discussion. For SG to say it isnt overspray is a bit presumptious as well. Just becuase you state something matter of factly doenst make it so. I was simply asking if you have tested your hay or pasture to rule out other possible intake issues? Backed up and with suggestions do not equal fact. You are stating they agree it could be but those arent things that make miedical fact. So maybe this ADM issue that spread on Facebook several months ago will enlighten a new set of studies and then there can be cofirmed medical testing and facts. Becuase my guess is once horse owners make better choices to use ionophore free mills, we will still have many colics and deaths that go unexplained?
The ADM fisasco did happen at my home. As my husband is a farmer, one thing that is done each year is my pastures tested. We also take the hay to the local lab and have it checked, even though that comes from somewhere else.
I think a alot of issues are caused by outside sources and spray could be one of them. We also have crop dusters who work the farm when it is too wet. My husband and the neighbors are very deligent about spraying and taking pre cautions.
More people just need to be aware. I do know that since my horses are not on ADM feed, I have had no "not feeling good", no not perky days at all. Plain oats straight from the field to the bin and Renew Gold for mine.
I will stand up and keep preaching to people to not purchase nor support feed companies that mix and sell feed made on the same production line as medicated cattle feed. This includes for me, feed, minerals, supplements, etc. |
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| It is like testing feed though. You can test for specs such as protein fiber and so on but it is a whole different feed test to look for contaminants like ionophores. Your local extension agency doesn't test for bad stuff. I even think you have to ask them to test specifically for what ever thing you are searching for. So can hay be tested for poisonous residue? When you test soil they test for nitrogen and so on. So has anyone tested for poison on grass and hay or can you even test for that? |
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Blessed
Location: Here | Zebra racer - 2015-04-22 8:50 AM rachellyn80 - 2015-04-21 1:55 PM My intent is not to mass diagnose...only to enlighten, inform, and raise awareness. I have questioned all of these things at some point in the past few months...The only thing I know is that I'm narrowing down a list of definite culprits for my horses conditions with information that is backed up with suggestions from veterinary toxicologists. I appreciate your vigor. I am not saying you are wrong about it always being feed related but you have to agree 80% of horses primary diet should be grazing of pasture or hay. I am not saying it is overspray iether. I was just throwing out theory for discussion. For SG to say it isnt overspray is a bit presumptious as well. Just becuase you state something matter of factly doenst make it so. I was simply asking if you have tested your hay or pasture to rule out other possible intake issues? Backed up and with suggestions do not equal fact. You are stating they agree it could be but those arent things that make miedical fact. So maybe this ADM issue that spread on Facebook several months ago will enlighten a new set of studies and then there can be cofirmed medical testing and facts. Becuase my guess is once horse owners make better choices to use ionophore free mills, we will still have many colics and deaths that go unexplained?
I guess I am confused. Ionophores are not sprayed by farmers so I can't possibly see how ionophore poisoning can happen from Farmers spraying. My husband sprayed thousands of acres every year and drift as 3fL stated is wasteful and is a big no no. Herbicides do not have ionophores in them.
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Blessed
Location: Here | Chicken litter and cow manure aren't sprayed they are spread and there is no drift on spread |
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Accident Prone
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Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Zebra racer - 2015-04-22 1:27 PM It is like testing feed though. You can test for specs such as protein fiber and so on but it is a whole different feed test to look for contaminants like ionophores. Your local extension agency doesn't test for bad stuff. I even think you have to ask them to test specifically for what ever thing you are searching for. So can hay be tested for poisonous residue? When you test soil they test for nitrogen and so on. So has anyone tested for poison on grass and hay or can you even test for that?
Yes, you can test for pesticide residue, but I think it's a different lab than nutrient testing. Either way, your local extension agent can get it done for you. |
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Hugs to You
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Location: In The Land of Cotton | Zebra racer - 2015-04-22 2:27 PM It is like testing feed though. You can test for specs such as protein fiber and so on but it is a whole different feed test to look for contaminants like ionophores. Your local extension agency doesn't test for bad stuff. I even think you have to ask them to test specifically for what ever thing you are searching for. So can hay be tested for poisonous residue? When you test soil they test for nitrogen and so on. So has anyone tested for poison on grass and hay or can you even test for that? My feed was not tested by the local extension agent, but he was quite helpful. I have more sense then you imply. It was sent to Thompson Bishop Sparks State Diagnostic Lab in Auburn AL. Yes you can have your feed and hay tested there. For a whole list of items. From Cyanide, Nitrates and Nitrites, minerals, etc. There are quite a few. Go to their web page and look.
Edited by 3canstorun 2015-04-22 1:58 PM
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Accident Prone
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Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | SG. - 2015-04-22 1:47 PM
Chicken litter and cow manure aren't sprayed they are spread and there is no drift on spread
No, but it will stink up the atmosphere for miles around. LOL which was my point--just because you smell it doesn't necessarily mean where you are is contaminated. I get what zebra is saying, and accidents DO happen, but they are rare. Or should be. And anything used on pasture or hay, if the label is followed (as required by law), residue will not be a problem because the chemical will have broken down long before an animal sees it. All that is tested out thoroughly before being approved. It's tough to get new products to market these days.
Think about this. Deer get in fields and eat with no respect for re-entry times or grazing restrictions and they are exposed to things we wouldn't use on hay or pasture. They eat every part of GMO crops. And yet, I haven't seen any sort of decline or unthriftiness in the deer population. |
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Hugs to You
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Location: In The Land of Cotton | Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-22 2:59 PM SG. - 2015-04-22 1:47 PM Chicken litter and cow manure aren't sprayed they are spread and there is no drift on spread No, but it will stink up the atmosphere for miles around. LOL which was my point--just because you smell it doesn't necessarily mean where you are is contaminated. I get what zebra is saying, and accidents DO happen, but they are rare. Or should be. And anything used on pasture or hay, if the label is followed (as required by law ), residue will not be a problem because the chemical will have broken down long before an animal sees it. All that is tested out thoroughly before being approved. It's tough to get new products to market these days. Think about this. Deer get in fields and eat with no respect for re-entry times or grazing restrictions and they are exposed to things we wouldn't use on hay or pasture. They eat every part of GMO crops. And yet, I haven't seen any sort of decline or unthriftiness in the deer population.
Heck, my husband thinks when he sprays it brings the deer out. We have herds of up to 50 a night out eating. |
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Location: Big Blue Skies | This makes sense when I was feeding ADM grain I had 2 horses that acted odd. Nervous and spooky. I thought maybe it was a slight case of EPM but now I wonder if it was the Patriot. I stopped feeding it because I switched to Bryant and those problems stopped. |
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Posts: 63
| 3canstorun - 2015-04-22 1:53 PM
Zebra racer - 2015-04-22 2:27 PM It is like testing feed though. You can test for specs such as protein fiber and so on but it is a whole different feed test to look for contaminants like ionophores. Your local extension agency doesn't test for bad stuff. I even think you have to ask them to test specifically for what ever thing you are searching for. So can hay be tested for poisonous residue? When you test soil they test for nitrogen and so on. So has anyone tested for poison on grass and hay or can you even test for that? My feed was not tested by the local extension agent, but he was quite helpful. I have more sense then you imply. It was sent to Thompson Bishop Sparks State Diagnostic Lab in Auburn AL. Yes you can have your feed and hay tested there. For a whole list of items. From Cyanide, Nitrates and Nitrites, minerals, etc. There are quite a few. Go to their web page and look.
I did not mean to imply anything. I also did not mean anything about ionophores sprayed on hay as far as overspray, that is foolish to imply that I am that simple. I am asking the question that considering the fact that a horses diet should primarily be grass or hay vs the small amount of feed intake that maybe we have an unknown hay or grass issue. I was asking if anyone has actually had their hay or grass tested for contaminants. My guess is no. Why would we? But maybe we should. People spray private property with specs for their land not our horse land which could have overspray. Deer, who cares, I mean ionophores are safe for cattle. We are not talking apples to apples on that. Most people test hay for quality not for poison. Just something that has crossed my mind.
I have heard of organic produce growers who have claimed to be chemical free until they are tested and run off from neighboring fields have shown they are in fact chemically altered. It is the same with a big salmonella scare when a organic farm had their produce recalled due to the fact of wild hogs running thru their crop at night and spreading diseased feces on the ground and crop. It is not a far leap. That is all I am saying. |
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Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
Location: In The Land of Cotton | Okay - now we know what we are trying to say via the key board. We have not tested for chemicals on our hay, just because we have not thought about it. However, since the scare we have had, we probably will when we get our first round bales. And, I will send it to Auburn, as they do it. We feed minimal grain products, so hay quality is important to our feed program.
I know of people who have had animals posioned from run off in the water source. So that is conceivable. And, wild hogs will poop where ever they want, so yes they could contaminate.
I can control my feed intakes, but we cannot control animals coming into our fields. My husband will not use chicken litter anymore on the pecan trees because in the last couple of years there has been contamination in the Almond industry and huge recalls. We also will not purchase hay from a field fertilized with litter. We might be over cautious, but we prefer to error on the side of caution.
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Blessed
Location: Here | Zebra Racer I never implied you were simple. You made an unclear comment (or at least to me unclear). I am not worried about my hay as I know where it is at and what is used on it. We do not use litter in this part of the country to fertilize with. I am mainly concerned at this point with KNOWN Feed mills that are using UNSAFE processing methods for making horse feed. So yes, I was confused about your comment because I personally have made serious feed changes and the proof is in the horses. Attitude, health and attitude are great improved. Their hay and pasture have remained the same so it was the feed.... |
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Saint Stacey
| I'm confused. Why would a commercial hay grower put ionophores in their hay? Typically cows being fed hay aren't necessarily being fed out for slaughter. Ionophores are added to things like grain and silage when commercial feeders are finishing the cattle out for slaughter. Hay (unless it's in cube or pellet form) isn't a processed feed. So while I understand testing hay for nutritional value, why would you waste money testing for other things unless there was a problem? All these horses coming up with ionophore intoxication have all been traced to contaminated grain, not baled hay. It did I miss something in the earlier posts? |
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Blessed
Location: Here | SKM - 2015-04-23 5:18 PM I'm confused. Why would a commercial hay grower put ionophores in their hay? Typically cows being fed hay aren't necessarily being fed out for slaughter. Ionophores are added to things like grain and silage when commercial feeders are finishing the cattle out for slaughter. Hay (unless it's in cube or pellet form) isn't a processed feed. So while I understand testing hay for nutritional value, why would you waste money testing for other things unless there was a problem? All these horses coming up with ionophore intoxication have all been traced to contaminated grain, not baled hay. It did I miss something in the earlier posts?
Whew. Glad I was not the only one that read it that way and drawed the same conclusions |
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Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
Location: In The Land of Cotton | Let's just face it Zebra Racer - the feed mills have let people down. They have in the past and will continue to mix cattle feeds with additives that can harm and kill horses. They do it because:
1. They don't want to spend the money on separate production lines.
2. Because they usually have more money then the average consumer, and
3. Because they use outdated information and test results.
Clearly, all of the additives which kill or harm horses have labels stating Do Not Feed to Horses. Yet, mills continue their bad practices. The mills think they will not get caught or "it just isn't enough" because we mix tons at a time.
Money is at the bottom of this all. Money lost to the feed mill, whether they are a big feed mill or a mom and pop operation. But, it is the animal owner who pays. |
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Regular
Posts: 63
| 3canstorun - 2015-04-23 2:02 PM
Okay - now we know what we are trying to say via the key board. We have not tested for chemicals on our hay, just because we have not thought about it. However, since the scare we have had, we probably will when we get our first round bales. And, I will send it to Auburn, as they do it. We feed minimal grain products, so hay quality is important to our feed program.
I know of people who have had animals posioned from run off in the water source. So that is conceivable. And, wild hogs will poop where ever they want, so yes they could contaminate.
I can control my feed intakes, but we cannot control animals coming into our fields. My husband will not use chicken litter anymore on the pecan trees because in the last couple of years there has been contamination in the Almond industry and huge recalls. We also will not purchase hay from a field fertilized with litter. We might be over cautious, but we prefer to error on the side of caution.
Thank you for understanding my question 3cans.
Sorry I was unclear SG. I will say from my years of lurking on here, I never knew you had issues with your horses especially lately. I thought you had proven winners and prospects that looked and rode great? Did you infact test your feed and it was proven tainted? Forgive me if I missed that. I lost myself in the pages and pages on this issue. What did you feed and what do you feed now?
I am on your side. I agree we need to support or choose the best we can on ionphore free mills. You would be surpised at those who know feed is not labeled for horses and still feed it because it is cheap. Creep and cubes labeled as all natural. Just like cigarettes warning label though people still smoke. Educate don't bash is my suggestion. Because everyone knows that Blue Bonnet is triple the cost of your local mill and not accessable to all states and not everyone can afford that cost. This is a great tool to get people thinking about colic issues and I know Rachelle has got people to pay attention. THANK YOU
My point was there are likely tons of other issues that are getting blamed on ionophores right now but it is the hot button issue.
Corn is in a lot of feed stuffs even supplements and it can cause multiple issues. I bet more mills don't test corn than mills that use ionophore? Here is an example of issues that can show similar symptoms and not be ionophore.
http://www.myhorseuniversity.com/resources/eTips/November_2010/Didy...
And for the record, I mentioned again but it has been missed. I DID NOT SAY IONOPHORES ON HAY. I asked if people tested for contaminants since hay should be a horse primary intake. Not meaning testing for ionophore but whatever chemicals or viruses and molds could be on hay. That's all.
I appreciate the education and experience of many of those on here and thank you for the discussion even if I feel like an outsider of the club.
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | I'm learning more about all of this every day. I have made some amazing contacts that have had my poor mind spinning with questions and discussions on nutrition and toxicology. Most recently we have been focusing on a specific plan with our horses to see if we will be able to rehab them to their former condition. We are seeing great results with the Bluebonnet feed, supplements, and mineral. I know that it's not available in all areas, but this feed has shown me beyond a doubt that a more expensive feed can be fed cheaper than a lesser quality/less expensive feed. Don't get me wrong...it's been VERY expensive to run this little experiment, but the results have been well worth it. If you feed most cheaper feeds by the recommendation it ends up costing just as much as the Bluebonnet feed...and then nearly everyone on this board is buying $$$$ in supplements. The Bluebonnet Omega Force needs nothing other than a free choice mineral and good quality forage to keep one looking great.
I just thought that my 28 year old mare looked good on Purina Sr Active....I have her on Bluebonnet Intensify Sr now and she looks AMAZING. |
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Blessed
Location: Here | Zebra racer - 2015-04-28 2:56 PM 3canstorun - 2015-04-23 2:02 PM Okay - now we know what we are trying to say via the key board. We have not tested for chemicals on our hay, just because we have not thought about it. However, since the scare we have had, we probably will when we get our first round bales. And, I will send it to Auburn, as they do it. We feed minimal grain products, so hay quality is important to our feed program.
I know of people who have had animals posioned from run off in the water source. So that is conceivable. And, wild hogs will poop where ever they want, so yes they could contaminate.
I can control my feed intakes, but we cannot control animals coming into our fields. My husband will not use chicken litter anymore on the pecan trees because in the last couple of years there has been contamination in the Almond industry and huge recalls. We also will not purchase hay from a field fertilized with litter. We might be over cautious, but we prefer to error on the side of caution.
Thank you for understanding my question 3cans. Sorry I was unclear SG. I will say from my years of lurking on here, I never knew you had issues with your horses especially lately. I thought you had proven winners and prospects that looked and rode great? Did you infact test your feed and it was proven tainted? Forgive me if I missed that. I lost myself in the pages and pages on this issue. What did you feed and what do you feed now? I am on your side. I agree we need to support or choose the best we can on ionphore free mills. You would be surpised at those who know feed is not labeled for horses and still feed it because it is cheap. Creep and cubes labeled as all natural. Just like cigarettes warning label though people still smoke. Educate don't bash is my suggestion. Because everyone knows that Blue Bonnet is triple the cost of your local mill and not accessable to all states and not everyone can afford that cost. This is a great tool to get people thinking about colic issues and I know Rachelle has got people to pay attention. THANK YOU My point was there are likely tons of other issues that are getting blamed on ionophores right now but it is the hot button issue. Corn is in a lot of feed stuffs even supplements and it can cause multiple issues. I bet more mills don't test corn than mills that use ionophore? Here is an example of issues that can show similar symptoms and not be ionophore. http://www.myhorseuniversity.com/resources/eTips/November_2010/Didy... And for the record, I mentioned again but it has been missed. I DID NOT SAY IONOPHORES ON HAY. I asked if people tested for contaminants since hay should be a horse primary intake. Not meaning testing for ionophore but whatever chemicals or viruses and molds could be on hay. That's all. I appreciate the education and experience of many of those on here and thank you for the discussion even if I feel like an outsider of the club.
I used to mix my own grain using steam rolled barley but several years ago the Nutrena Barley was horribly bad and was tested by the Oklahoma dept of ag and they were told to pull it from the shelves. I tried to continue but finding clean real grain was impossible. Fast forward, my husband got hurt got rid of all the horses except a couple of geldings that made the move with us to Texas. They had decent grass and did decent on Total Equine but I wasn't thrille with how they looked. Fast forward again 18 months ago we got our first mare. She was in poor shape, older with hardly any teeth left. I still couldn't find clean real grain anymore so I had to change the feed program. They (mares we had acquired) on Safe Choice. The weanlings started declining on it, then the mares started declining on it and then I found moldly clumbs in it. We changed to ADM. Then things got worse. No I did not test as I took ADM's word that their feed was safe. We however did return it to the dealer for a full refund. Then we switched to Blue Bonnet.
Now when I say declining most people would think they still looked good, But I am picky and I know what my horses look like and their condition in monitored daily and reviewed. The attitudes got worse. The attitudes are better now and so are their conditions |
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Blessed
Location: Here | rachellyn80 - 2015-04-28 3:25 PM I'm learning more about all of this every day. I have made some amazing contacts that have had my poor mind spinning with questions and discussions on nutrition and toxicology. Most recently we have been focusing on a specific plan with our horses to see if we will be able to rehab them to their former condition. We are seeing great results with the Bluebonnet feed, supplements, and mineral. I know that it's not available in all areas, but this feed has shown me beyond a doubt that a more expensive feed can be fed cheaper than a lesser quality/less expensive feed. Don't get me wrong...it's been VERY expensive to run this little experiment, but the results have been well worth it. If you feed most cheaper feeds by the recommendation it ends up costing just as much as the Bluebonnet feed...and then nearly everyone on this board is buying $$$$ in supplements. The Bluebonnet Omega Force needs nothing other than a free choice mineral and good quality forage to keep one looking great.
I just thought that my 28 year old mare looked good on Purina Sr Active....I have her on Bluebonnet Intensify Sr now and she looks AMAZING.
What free choice mineral are you feeding? |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | SG. - 2015-04-28 4:06 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-04-28 3:25 PM I'm learning more about all of this every day. I have made some amazing contacts that have had my poor mind spinning with questions and discussions on nutrition and toxicology. Most recently we have been focusing on a specific plan with our horses to see if we will be able to rehab them to their former condition. We are seeing great results with the Bluebonnet feed, supplements, and mineral. I know that it's not available in all areas, but this feed has shown me beyond a doubt that a more expensive feed can be fed cheaper than a lesser quality/less expensive feed. Don't get me wrong...it's been VERY expensive to run this little experiment, but the results have been well worth it. If you feed most cheaper feeds by the recommendation it ends up costing just as much as the Bluebonnet feed...and then nearly everyone on this board is buying $$$$ in supplements. The Bluebonnet Omega Force needs nothing other than a free choice mineral and good quality forage to keep one looking great.
I just thought that my 28 year old mare looked good on Purina Sr Active....I have her on Bluebonnet Intensify Sr now and she looks AMAZING. What free choice mineral are you feeding?
I'm feeding the Bluebonnet Element mineral. They are going through it like candy still, but they have assured me that once they get balanced again they'll taper off. It's been over a month and they still eat every bit that I put out for them....but with the results that we've seen I'm not going to complain. |
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | My horse has been so much healthier and has been thriving since I've been paying attention to what I feed him. These forums helped both my horses so much!
He is a very sensitive guy. Glad I got a hold of the original post about feed on here when people started getting curious about "grain free" diets. It has helped him so much to be pulled off all the crap I had him on. Very thankful we have a community that will answer serious questions about horse health point blank here on BHW and who also have research they've done themselves to back up their beliefs and opinions. BRAVO!
The grain made my boy sick, the supplements/meds hid the symptoms. And I was the idiot that bought into it all.... But not anymore.
Thanks guys!!!! |
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Blessed
Location: Here | rachellyn80 - 2015-04-28 4:21 PM SG. - 2015-04-28 4:06 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-04-28 3:25 PM I'm learning more about all of this every day. I have made some amazing contacts that have had my poor mind spinning with questions and discussions on nutrition and toxicology. Most recently we have been focusing on a specific plan with our horses to see if we will be able to rehab them to their former condition. We are seeing great results with the Bluebonnet feed, supplements, and mineral. I know that it's not available in all areas, but this feed has shown me beyond a doubt that a more expensive feed can be fed cheaper than a lesser quality/less expensive feed. Don't get me wrong...it's been VERY expensive to run this little experiment, but the results have been well worth it. If you feed most cheaper feeds by the recommendation it ends up costing just as much as the Bluebonnet feed...and then nearly everyone on this board is buying $$$$ in supplements. The Bluebonnet Omega Force needs nothing other than a free choice mineral and good quality forage to keep one looking great.
I just thought that my 28 year old mare looked good on Purina Sr Active....I have her on Bluebonnet Intensify Sr now and she looks AMAZING. What free choice mineral are you feeding?
Thanks!!! |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | rachellyn80, I would encourage you to research the benefits of curcurmin in both our and our horses diet. After having gone through everything I have with my colt and him being terribly sick and non-responsive to anti-biotics, steroids, and other treatments I was about to pull my hair out. This colt couldn't take a deep breath at all even on 8 cc of Ventipulmin. It was bad. Very stiff, very depressed, very body sore, very sick. I'd be happy to share the entire story with you, but too long to type here. Long story short, in less than 2 weeks on the Cur-Ost product my colt has bloomed, is taking deep breaths, snorting and running around, and his cough is down to once during a 10 minute exercise session. I've been given the green light to start lightly riding him again.
One of the weirdest changes i've seen is that this horse has always been real "tickle-ish" and flinchy when you brush him and has never liked to be groomed or brushed at all. It's all over his body, so I have always tried to use a really soft brush. He's always been worse toward the back part of his belly and flank area....even on Gastro-guard and or other omeprazole and ranitidine treaments even before he was sick. Not all, but most of it's gone away. He's not nearly as tickle-ish and almost acts like he enjoys being brushed.
Prior to the Cur-Ost, I had already changed my feed to the Bluebonnet about 45 days prior to that. I just don't think he was able to utilize it until we addressed the inflammation within his digestive system (leaky gut syndrome), which was then creating a hyperactive response in his immune system. I'd be happy to share all of my emails with Dr. Schell regarding all of this, as it makes complete sense to me, especially given the problems you're experiencing originated in the digestive tract. I'm a HUGE supplement skeptic and not a bandwagon person at all, but i'm telling you right now, i'm 100% sold on this. The proof is in the pudding for me and my horse is a completely different horse, inside and out! Shoot me your email and i'll forward all of the info he's given me.
Now, take a look at these pictures. The first one is March 23. The second one is April 25. I would say that 80% of this progress has been in the last two weeks since starting the Cur-Ost!
Edited by Herbie 2015-04-28 4:56 PM
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Blessed
Location: Here | Herbie he looks fantastic! |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | SG. - 2015-04-28 5:08 PM
Herbie he looks fantastic!
Thank you, SG, you should have the emails now. :) |
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Blessed
Location: Here | Thank you. got them |
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Regular
Posts: 63
| SG. - 2015-04-28 4:06 PM
rachellyn80 - 2015-04-28 3:25 PM I'm learning more about all of this every day. I have made some amazing contacts that have had my poor mind spinning with questions and discussions on nutrition and toxicology. Most recently we have been focusing on a specific plan with our horses to see if we will be able to rehab them to their former condition. We are seeing great results with the Bluebonnet feed, supplements, and mineral. I know that it's not available in all areas, but this feed has shown me beyond a doubt that a more expensive feed can be fed cheaper than a lesser quality/less expensive feed. Don't get me wrong...it's been VERY expensive to run this little experiment, but the results have been well worth it. If you feed most cheaper feeds by the recommendation it ends up costing just as much as the Bluebonnet feed...and then nearly everyone on this board is buying $$$$ in supplements. The Bluebonnet Omega Force needs nothing other than a free choice mineral and good quality forage to keep one looking great.
I just thought that my 28 year old mare looked good on Purina Sr Active....I have her on Bluebonnet Intensify Sr now and she looks AMAZING.
What free choice mineral are you feeding?
Thank you for asking this, I was going to ask the same question and I see the answer. It is a loose mineral and how much are you putting out? May I ask what your avg cost per day is to feed the Blue Bonnet and the cost of the SR horse?
SG I am also happy to hear you didn't have a test that showed your feed to be contaminated. |
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 Firecracker Dog Lover
Posts: 3175
| Does anyone feed LMF Feeds? These are the specs on the NW formula:
Northwest Specs
Typical Analysis
Crude Protein, min14.0%
Crude fat, min4.0%
Crude Fiber, max18.0%
Calcium, min0.6%
Calcium, max0.9%
Phosphorous, min0.4%
Copper, min30 ppm
Zinc., min80 ppm
Selenium, min0.30 ppm
Vitamin A, min2000 IU/lb
Vitamin E, min40 IU/lb
Glucosamine HCL, min660 mg/lb
Ingredients
Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Oats, Corn, Soybean Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Ground Grass Hay, Cane Molasses, Vegetable Oil, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Salt, Monosodium Phosphate, Live Yeast Culture, L-Lysine, Selenium Yeast, Manganese Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin A Acetate (Stability Improved), dl-Alpha Tocopherol (Source of Vitamin E), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Artificial Flavor, Choline Chloride, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Niacin, Folic Acid, Calcium Pantothenate, Glucosamine HCl, d- Biotin, Thiamine Mono Nitrate, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Cobalt Carbonate, Potassium Iodide. Contains glucosamine HCl as a cartilage building block.
Special Ingredients
Bio-Plex®
Proteinated minerals for maximum absorption and retention. Minerals designed to match as closely as possible the naturally-complexed trace element compounds found in forages and grains.
Sel-Plex®
Selenium is more bio-available than inorganic forms and better retained, which lets the horse build nutrient reserves against periods of increased demand with less risk of toxicity. Better tissue retention, optimized immune response.
Yea-Sacc1026
The world’s leading yeast culture for horses, and enhances fiber digestion and nutrient absorption allowing for increased animal performance. By improving feed efficiency, Yea-Sacc1026 also helps to maintain body and coat condition in horses.
Horses in training, working horses: Less variation in intake, improved nutrient absorption including phosphorus for bone strength. Senior horses: Improves fiber, protein and mineral digestion.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 806
Location: Arkansas | I am just now reading this. Can someone send a link to the other threads? I want to be more informed. |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | I just want to bump this up incase someone missed it or is looking for info. |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | A gentle reminder....It's getting to be that time of year again. Please be mindful of any abnormal behavior in your horses. It's interesting looking back at past posts and how far we've come through all of this. My horses are no longer on concentrated feeds and they look better than they ever have. Our nightmare has not been resolved, but it will not be forgotten any time soon. The expenses continue and I won't be backing off anytime soon.
Edited by rachellyn80 2015-10-05 4:23 PM
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Expert
Posts: 3147
| Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-21 4:20 PM
GLP - 2015-04-21 3:13 PM Zebra racer - 2015-04-21 11:16 AM Have you thought that their could be grazing toxins problems since horses graze far more than they should eat grain? It might be chemicals for weed control or general toxicity from fertilizer? GMO ingredients in the feed. It could even be over spray from neighbors if you do not spray the pasture. Do you have your hay and pasture grass tested yearly? I wonder because of the fescue problem in brood mares and how it effects the placenta. Yes I do worry about this. We live surrounded by farm fields. Consequently, we are sprayed alot. For this reason, I refuse to let my husband cut down the mesquite trees that line our fence because we get a east wind and the tress are on the east fence. I also periodically use Animal Element detox on my animals and me. I feel it really does help detox us all. We don't fertilize the pasture, either, with chemicals. I feed Renew Gold partly because it is Non GMO. But I think people often forget the importance of keeping those teeth in great shape, too. I had an unthrifty gelding that had had his teeth done maybe 6 months before, but winwillows told me to get them checked. Sure enough, he had some hooks that needed attention. It was amazing how fast he turned around. That was the only thing I changed.
Speaking of chicken fertilizer. My husband said he saw more downer cows on chicken fertilized pastures than others. He had a practice in an area of Arkansas that had lots of chicken houses. |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | Please don't be distracted by the random irrelevant comments that were posted on this thread. There has been a little bit of an issue with a person throwing out "ideas" about what could be going on with our horses...Usually mentioning medicated liquid molasses or something contaminating the hay.
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | It has been an educational year without a doubt! My horses are not on processed/concetrated feed either and also look and feel better than ever. I want to personally thank you for sharing your journey with us here on BHW. I have fought different battles this year with a particular horse, but I believe that in reality, it's somewhat all tied together. Not poison, but rather what processed feed and synthetics have done, and continue to do, to our horse's hind gut. |
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Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | It's been a heck of a journey here in KY also.
Looking back to April, I was SO frustrated with not finding answers for my mare. She was showing colic signs at least once a week and I was dosing her with banamine each time. It turns out that the levels of sulfur in the TC Senior were high. I spoke with two TC reps and they said it wasn't the TC causing her problems, that is was most likely my hay or water. Sorry, no. As soon as I switched her to Tribute, her colic has stopped and she hasn't shown any colic signs since then. Funny how when I pulled her from the TC that she stopped her symptoms. Hm.
I would love to switch both of my horses to the Omnis Cubes, but there are currently no reps in KY, so I'll stick with Tribute so far. I have researched until my eyes pop out and I do feel relatively safe with them, but I'm still "burned" by TC (a brand that I had fed for years, and paid $25 a bag!). Now I'm saving money with Tribute ($15 a bag) and know I'm not feeding my mare poison.
Folks around here think I'm nuts for researching feed programs, but I truly believe that horses will "tell" you when something is wrong. People just tend to not listen and attribute it to "attitude". |
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Veteran
Posts: 226
| So glad to read this thread... sounds like my horse . I will be interested to follow. I feed Bluebonnet but am interested in which Bluebonnet you use. |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | Herbie - 2015-10-06 9:07 AM It has been an educational year without a doubt! My horses are not on processed/concetrated feed either and also look and feel better than ever. I want to personally thank you for sharing your journey with us here on BHW. I have fought different battles this year with a particular horse, but I believe that in reality, it's somewhat all tied together. Not poison, but rather what processed feed and synthetics have done, and continue to do, to our horse's hind gut.
I absolutely agree. After learning that the FDA only tests for guaranteed analysis and will not investigate unless there's suspicion I knew that we had found the answer. They subsititute ingredients to meet the analysis with no consideration as to whether it's actually good for horses or not. Would you knowingly feed your horse cotton seed hulls? |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | rachellyn80 - 2015-10-06 9:27 AM Herbie - 2015-10-06 9:07 AM It has been an educational year without a doubt! My horses are not on processed/concetrated feed either and also look and feel better than ever. I want to personally thank you for sharing your journey with us here on BHW. I have fought different battles this year with a particular horse, but I believe that in reality, it's somewhat all tied together. Not poison, but rather what processed feed and synthetics have done, and continue to do, to our horse's hind gut. I absolutely agree. After learning that the FDA only tests for guaranteed analysis and will not investigate unless there's suspicion I knew that we had found the answer. They subsititute ingredients to meet the analysis with no consideration as to whether it's actually good for horses or not. Would you knowingly feed your horse cotton seed hulls?
I wouldn't because of gossypol. Cows do ok on limited amounts, it's toxic to non-ruminants. The oil is ok tho. |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Murphy - 2015-10-06 9:20 AM It's been a heck of a journey here in KY also.
Looking back to April, I was SO frustrated with not finding answers for my mare. She was showing colic signs at least once a week and I was dosing her with banamine each time. It turns out that the levels of sulfur in the TC Senior were high. I spoke with two TC reps and they said it wasn't the TC causing her problems, that is was most likely my hay or water. Sorry, no. As soon as I switched her to Tribute, her colic has stopped and she hasn't shown any colic signs since then. Funny how when I pulled her from the TC that she stopped her symptoms. Hm.
I would love to switch both of my horses to the Omnis Cubes, but there are currently no reps in KY, so I'll stick with Tribute so far. I have researched until my eyes pop out and I do feel relatively safe with them, but I'm still "burned" by TC (a brand that I had fed for years, and paid $25 a bag!). Now I'm saving money with Tribute ($15 a bag) and know I'm not feeding my mare poison.
Folks around here think I'm nuts for researching feed programs, but I truly believe that horses will "tell" you when something is wrong. People just tend to not listen and attribute it to "attitude".
I had one that would stretch like a dog after eating, just acted like she was uncomfortable. After switching to an alfalfa and rice bran diet, that totally resolved. She's doing way better physically and mentally, but I have also worked my butt off on her this year after being behind on her training due to injuries. so I can't totally attribute the better attitude and focus to feed, but I'm positive it helped. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2258
| Three 4 Luck - 2015-10-06 9:59 AM
Murphy - 2015-10-06 9:20 AM It's been a heck of a journey here in KY also.
Looking back to April, I was SO frustrated with not finding answers for my mare. She was showing colic signs at least once a week and I was dosing her with banamine each time. It turns out that the levels of sulfur in the TC Senior were high. I spoke with two TC reps and they said it wasn't the TC causing her problems, that is was most likely my hay or water. Sorry, no. As soon as I switched her to Tribute, her colic has stopped and she hasn't shown any colic signs since then. Funny how when I pulled her from the TC that she stopped her symptoms. Hm.
I would love to switch both of my horses to the Omnis Cubes, but there are currently no reps in KY, so I'll stick with Tribute so far. I have researched until my eyes pop out and I do feel relatively safe with them, but I'm still "burned" by TC (a brand that I had fed for years, and paid $25 a bag!). Now I'm saving money with Tribute ($15 a bag) and know I'm not feeding my mare poison.
Folks around here think I'm nuts for researching feed programs, but I truly believe that horses will "tell" you when something is wrong. People just tend to not listen and attribute it to "attitude".
I had one that would stretch like a dog after eating, just acted like she was uncomfortable. After switching to an alfalfa and rice bran diet, that totally resolved. She's doing way better physically and mentally, but I have also worked my butt off on her this year after being behind on her training due to injuries. so I can't totally attribute the better attitude and focus to feed, but I'm positive it helped.
I switched to Tribute in the last month or so we have no dealer here but I can buy it on Amazon. They are suppose to safe from the research I have done and talking to them. I was feeding TC earlier and have for years but the quality had gotten bad and then I had two horses colic in 3 days and then didn't want to eat it so I stopped feeding it and found something else. I am happy with the Tribute right now it cost me more because of shipping but worth it at this point. |
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