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Posts: 138
 
| What are your favorite exercises for keeping them using themselves. Ultimately, when we run, I have to just keep moving forward and let her work... but in the mean time, what do you like to do with them?
I've just started getting mine back into the barrel pattern after about 2 years off. She's always run on top of the ground with her hip a little outside. She's def what I'd consider front endy. I had a nasty habit of never schooling her on the pattern. Our slow work consisted of walking or jogging the pattern every once in a while. She did well... Got up to bottom of 2D, top of 3D when I stopped running her. BUT, I really would like her to be a little more efficient and maybe hook up into the barrel a little more.
I've started loping her and really moving her hip in upon approach to the barrel and driving her forward through a turn. (Then turn the barrel a couple of times at a lope with her hip in)
I'd love to know what other may be doing to keep their front endy types that don't bury their hindquarters running well? No soreness. No physical issues. Just her style. I'm trying to work with her style and make it as efficient as possible without sacrificing forward motion.
Edited by CallMeSkidmark 2015-04-24 11:58 AM
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
 
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | My old gelding did that if I ever touched his face going into a turn. He was very ratey and push type so I had to push him all the way into the turn and just sit quiet until it was time to give him a bit of direction to the next barrel. If I picked up too soon he would plant his front end and swing his butt around. |
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Veteran
Posts: 138
| wyoming barrel racer - 2015-04-24 7:17 AM
My old gelding did that if I ever touched his face going into a turn. He was very ratey and push type so I had to push him all the way into the turn and just sit quiet until it was time to give him a bit of direction to the next barrel. If I picked up too soon he would plant his front end and swing his butt around.
Shes not quite that bad, but I definitely have to ride smart. I've had a few rides where I've rolled her back behind the first barrel... our biggest issue is coming off the barrel she disengages if I take to long to ask for her to go on. I have to pay close attention and ride her.
Her first barrel is the turn she likes to drop her shoulder to turn and shove her hip out. Sometimes if I have enough momentum going in, it'll straighten her body out and stiffen her up enough to stay straight through her turn. Shes just tricky
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 Party Girl
Posts: 12293
Location: Buffalo, Wyoming | I have a mare that is this way. She is not a finished horse and we are still trying to figure out what is going to work out best for her. This may not work for everyone and it may not work for us but last night I had to really ride her shaped up into every barrel. She wants to work with a smaller pocket but I really made her move out last night and doing both of those things seemed to help. When she goes in with her hip out she really seems to leave a barrel elevated and both of these things helped her come out lower and smoother.
We still have a bunch to work on. I will be following this thread to see what eveyone says.
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | I am curious what others say too! My current gelding is running 2D times locally (3D at larger races) and he does has the speed to be faster. But he is not powering out of the turn because he's not keeping his hind end engaged, so we are "losing the race" in-between the barrels.
Would love to hear any specific exercises to keep a horse on their back end and have them explode out of the turn.
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 Veteran
Posts: 212
| this is my horse.. she is very front endy and swings her hip still somewhat but reverse arcing before the barrel and even on the backside when she is trying to swing her rear end out + the connie combs squares drill keeps her tight enough to run 1d... I would try reverse arcing anytime your horse starts to step out.. and maybe a hack. She is like a noodle in a bit, the stiffer a front ender is the better in my experience
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYy6wkgNzu4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuXvmlQ_IjA |
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | I saw this post on Latricia Duke's Fb, ya have to read her comments.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=655859364519378&set=a.131102... |
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Veteran
Posts: 138
| alp341 - 2015-04-24 10:27 AM
this is my horse.. she is very front endy and swings her hip still somewhat but reverse arcing before the barrel and even on the backside when she is trying to swing her rear end out + the connie combs squares drill keeps her tight enough to run 1d... I would try reverse arcing anytime your horse starts to step out.. and maybe a hack. She is like a noodle in a bit, the stiffer a front ender is the better in my experience
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYy6wkgNzu4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuXvmlQ_IjA
I like the idea of counter bending and pushing that hip in, in an exaggerated way when they start to kick their hip out. I've thought about putting her in a hack, right now though she's in a pretty rigid bit that keeps her pretty stiff. I agree... the stiffer the better on a horse like her.
Edited by CallMeSkidmark 2015-04-24 11:29 AM
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Veteran
Posts: 138
| BamaCanChaser - 2015-04-24 11:09 AM
I saw this post on Latricia Duke's Fb, ya have to read her comments.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=655859364519378&set=a.131102...
I'm sure a lot of the reason this bit works so well is because of the longer purchase. I have her in a pretty good bit right now, but used to run her in something similar and she did well in it. I've had to change her over because she's gotten a little more handle on her now and she needs almost no bit. |
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 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | r_beau - 2015-04-24 9:18 AM I am curious what others say too! My current gelding is running 2D times locally (3D at larger races) and he does has the speed to be faster. But he is not powering out of the turn because he's not keeping his hind end engaged, so we are "losing the race" in-between the barrels.
Would love to hear any specific exercises to keep a horse on their back end and have them explode out of the turn.
Exploding out of the turn is all about balance and positioning. They need to enter the turn rocked back on the hock and then continue to move forward around the turn. If you don't get them all the way around the turn they can't stay engaged and actually have to move their hip out of the way so they can get around it. Once you find their own sweet spot and teach them to go forward on the turn they will shoot out like a rocket. |
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Veteran
Posts: 138
| https://youtu.be/sOsDRIOm-yU
Here's a video of her loping today through the pattern. I was by myself riding, so its not easy to video. What I've been doing for her slow work is just pushing her forward into the turn and making sure she follows through with the forward motion. Typically, this mare likes to kick her hip out and change hind leads behind a barrel... so being able to consistently maintain the lead along with forward motion is a big deal for her.
Anyway, this is just what I've been working on the last couple days. (She's only been back on the pattern for about a week.)
I'm having to really use a lot of leg to hold her body together, but I'm hoping with tons of consistency from me, she'll get strong enough after a while. |
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Veteran
Posts: 138
| WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2015-04-24 11:42 AM
r_beau - 2015-04-24 9:18 AM I am curious what others say too! My current gelding is running 2D times locally (3D at larger races) and he does has the speed to be faster. But he is not powering out of the turn because he's not keeping his hind end engaged, so we are "losing the race" in-between the barrels.
Would love to hear any specific exercises to keep a horse on their back end and have them explode out of the turn.
Exploding out of the turn is all about balance and positioning. They need to enter the turn rocked back on the hock and then continue to move forward around the turn. If you don't get them all the way around the turn they can't stay engaged and actually have to move their hip out of the way so they can get around it. Once you find their own sweet spot and teach them to go forward on the turn they will shoot out like a rocket.
RIGHT! They have to have their motor engaged in order to use it efficiently! |
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Veteran
Posts: 138
| This was her last run. Its been a long time, but you can see after the second, especially, she steps out into that outside lead and gets really strung out at the third barrel.
https://youtu.be/PVTJD8jlMz4 |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | I have found that most of the horses that get front endy are sore in their hocks and stifles. If you haven't had that checked, might want to do that. It will help more than any other drill or bit change. They're protecting themselves by not engaging that rear end because it's sore. JMO |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | Switching leads on the back side is a good indicator of sore hocks like Diane said. Also, those tight turning horses need less pocket. Mine is rode directly at the second and third, the first is definitely no more than 5 feet off the barrel. The probably also need a little more shape than some of the others, I tend to hold mine where I can see his eye going into the turn, otherwise his ribs will lock up and he wont set into the ground as well. Edited to add that mine also needs a step down the pen on the turns (it's hard to explain) but work on your body position, the video looked good to me, but when speed was added the horse isn't quite in the right position. Trial and error.......but think a little more about possible hock/stifle soreness
Edited by LMS 2015-04-24 12:42 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 138
| Physical issues are ruled out. In the old video of her running, she was due for her injections, but feeling good or not, she has a tendency to step her hind quarters out. She's been checked out from head to toe, even had her US'd to make sure it wasn't a lady issue. I'm aware she's weak behind and isn't a natural turner, but am looking for exercises that will help build her strength and engage her hindquarters a little more through a turn.
I think a lot of her problem before was that I just didn't dedicate any time to conditioning her to be strong in the right ways. Now that she's had a long break, I'm trying to start over putting a solid foundation on her and get her off on the right foot.
Edited by CallMeSkidmark 2015-04-24 12:50 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 138
| LMS - 2015-04-24 12:38 PM
Switching leads on the back side is a good indicator of sore hocks like Diane said. Also, those tight turning horses need less pocket. Mine is rode directly at the second and third, the first is definitely no more than 5 feet off the barrel. The probably also need a little more shape than some of the others, I tend to hold mine where I can see his eye going into the turn, otherwise his ribs will lock up and he wont set into the ground as well. Edited to add that mine also needs a step down the pen on the turns (it's hard to explain) but work on your body position, the video looked good to me, but when speed was added the horse isn't quite in the right position. Trial and error.......but think a little more about possible hock/stifle soreness
She hasn't been run in almost 2 years. The video of her running was from the last time she was run. The loping video was of her this morning after being back on the pattern for a week. She VERY light in the face and I cannot get much bend or face or else she just turns into a limp noodle. She HAS to stay straight as an arrow in between barrels and around them in order to keep her ribcage and hips lined up appropriately. She's not a stiff frond endy horse like some I've seen. She doesn't jar and jerk and scotch into the ground... she just knocks her ribs out, then typically hip out.
Over the last several months shes been in reining training and it's the same problem there. When asking for her turn arounds, she pops her ribs out and loses forward momentum causing her hip to step out. The best thing I know to do is keep her body straight and forward. |
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 I"m Jealous!
Posts: 1737
Location: Benton City, WA | CallMeSkidmark - 2015-04-24 10:44 AM Physical issues are ruled out. In the old video of her running, she was due for her injections, but feeling good or not, she has a tendency to step her hind quarters out. She's been checked out from head to toe, even had her US'd to make sure it wasn't a lady issue. I'm aware she's weak behind and isn't a natural turner, but am looking for exercises that will help build her strength and engage her hindquarters a little more through a turn. I think a lot of her problem before was that I just didn't dedicate any time to conditioning her to be strong in the right ways. Now that she's had a long break, I'm trying to start over putting a solid foundation on her and get her off on the right foot.
FWIW- in your video of a run, she looks sore behind to me too. So it sounds like she does have a physical issue that you're aware of? Maybe you're not maintaining it well enough that she's comfortable to make good habits on the pattern?
If she's front endy because of soreness in hindlimbs, you can do drills and exercises till you're blue in the face & it will make absolutely no difference. |
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Veteran
Posts: 138
| She's been vetted. XRAYed. Ultrasounded. Flex tested. She's sound. I merely kept her on adequan as a preventative and to keep her feeling good while being ridden as she is an aged mare. She was due at the time of the video because I hadn't been running her. I ran her because it was a benefit for a friend of mine who was dying of cancer at the time.
I'm not going to beat a dead horse, here. So lets say, she has NO physical issues. NONE. She's merely a long backed, light reared, heavy on the forehand horse. Just looking for the best exercises to keep her tuned properly.
gracias! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 448
Location: lone star state | http://www.barrelracingtips.com/its-all-about-the-ribs-how-to-flex-... |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Front endy horses need a lot if stopping and backing up. If they are too bendy try not riding in circles, ride in a line turn like in a couple of steps. |
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Veteran
Posts: 138
| daisycake123 - 2015-04-24 7:59 PM
Front endy horses need a lot if stopping and backing up. If they are too bendy try not riding in circles, ride in a line turn like in a couple of steps.
Used to do stopping and backing up at a barrel and found that it created and caused more issues than teaching a horse to carry itself through a turn with forward motion. Especially for a horse like her who is extremely feely and very well broke. Perhaps it's my background or living with a reining trainer, but I carry the mentality that forward fixes everything.
I WILL, though, make a downward transition and yield her hindquarters about 3 strides before the first barrel, really trying to encourage her to engage her rear for the turn instead of turning with her shoulder. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| I have a horse that was started wrong with no foundation . Super nice 1 d horse but she swings her hindquarters terribly ! Especially on the first . She drops her front end & swings her butt.. Doesn't stay engaged at all. Ive tried to get her to stop for over a year now with no luck :( I'm getting so discouraged with it . She's always inconsistent on turning her first nice it wide bc of it . I've tried a lot & have yet to find something that works . She's ran from a 4 yr old to 7 the wrong way .. She's 8 now so it's a tough habit to break . Any other options to try ? Does anyone think she's even fixable at this point ? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 953
| CallMeSkidmark - 2015-04-24 11:59 AM
This was her last run. Its been a long time, but you can see after the second, especially, she steps out into that outside lead and gets really strung out at the third barrel.
https://youtu.be/PVTJD8jlMz4
Don't look front end-y to me. Just looks like she gets in the ground a lot. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Also, i like to do my circles like straight lines and a two step turn. Like a square. Straight line a two step turn and straight line two steo turn. Realy helped my gelding. Also, did a lot of chris cox circles with the rear kicked out and then load on rear an turn the outher way get them supple in tye hip, not the neck. After we did this made sense. Got a 5 year old mare did not want to back, actuallyhas gotton worse found out dont pull both reins when backing, built very nice but wants to pull with her face, just sea saw reins will be very responsive, and mare is very softin her body but wants to noodle her neck, had to stiffin her body, also wants to be front endy. She cant lope/stop and back up, how can she rate a barrel. Also, cant lope a circle. |
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 The Worst Seller Ever
Posts: 4138
Location: Oklahoma | Since you say nothing is physically wrong. She needs to start her turn earlier. If she was actually at the barrel when the makes her move, not a stride behind it, you could make up some time.
Even in the video of you loping around the single barrel something looks off. Have you had someone else get on her and "feel" how she moves? Going at a lope, you should be able to get her to roll back, when you ask.
Maybe try a mullen mouth bit or a hackamore. |
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Anyone with front endy horses that like to run (turn) with their hips stepped out? VIDEO ADDED