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Elite Veteran
Posts: 616
 
Location: Texas | Trying to help someone out, have any of you ever tried a treeless saddle and a horse started bucking?? She was riding in a treed saddlle for the past 4 or 5 months.....
has been riding and running in a treeless for the past couple months. Has ran just fine with it at barrel races but on 2 occasions bucked in the practice pen. Just trying to help her pinpoint the problem |
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 Heeler Hoarder
Posts: 2067
 
| It is a possibility, could be the pad you are using with it to ! |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Yes |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Yes, they can pinch if they don't fit right. |
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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | I reckon anything is possible but I've never thought that is what has made mine buck feeling frisky yes. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Yes it can, her horse maybe sore..Lots of times a treeless will sore them up. |
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Veteran
Posts: 139
Location: Abbotsford B.C. Canada | I think a treeless saddle would easily put pressure on the spinal processes. I would suggest you contact an expert like Dr. Hillary Clayton at Michigan State U who has done a ton of work on saddle fit.
I do not see how you can avoid the saddle really coming down on the spine even if it had a lot of padding. This would be especially tricky as you need to cinch up well.
I could see where the seat bones could push down and create an uneven pressure point and really bother a horse.
The whole idea of a tree is to keep weight clear of the spine and get the weight on the long back muscles. Yes you can ride a horse bare back for fun light riding for a short time, but not with the pressure and force barrel racing /training would generate. Look to see where the contact is and if the back bone/spine has no clearance it would hurt the horse I would think.
My two cents into the discussion. Not an expert. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1115
Location: Arkansas | Here's a little bit of an article that explains why a treeless could possibly make a horses back sore.. At least an explanation..
only a solid tree or very well constructed treeless saddle with correct padding can keep the rider off the horse’s spine and distribute weight evenly across the horse's back without creating localized pressure points. Pressure should never be put directly on the spinuous processes of the horse nor on the ligament system that runs alongside the spine, and many treeless designs do result in rider-related pressure in this area. |
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Veteran
Posts: 113
| What cinch and what pad? Some horses just don't like the extra "feel" they get in a Sports Saddle. Some horses feel so much better and freer in a Sports Saddle that they will "play".
Any saddle can sore up a horse, personally I have had and seen way more sore horses in treed saddled then treeless (personally have never seen a sore horse from a sports saddle and have been using them for over 10 years).
People shy away from Sports Saddles due to other people's opinions and articles on them, very few (not saying none, but few) from first hand experience.
Edited to add that the riders weight has a lot to do with if you and your horses will like a Sports Saddle or not. Also, how you ride your stirrups. They aren't for everyone for sure. Also, comparing a Sports Saddle to riding bareback is apples and oranges :-)
Edited by MeepMeep 2015-04-29 7:20 AM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 616
Location: Texas | I don't think it's the cinch or the pad it doesn't roll on his back, when you take it off there are no dry spots..... It's all wet and she rides her other horses in it with the same pad without problems. The horse has a long back, wonder if it just sits different on him??? Or maybe it's just to much feel to him and he doesn't like, or like someone said it maybe pinching somehow??
I have rode a lot in treeless and never had a problem either, but this just seemed odd to me since he never did that when she was riding with a treed saddlle.
As far as her weight she probably weighs around 150-160 lbs
Edited by kickincans 2015-04-29 6:47 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 282
Location: MS | I peronally would not buy a treeless saddle. However, I do know several professional riders that ride Bob Marshall saddles....not CHEAP imitations (ie, hilason)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 616
Location: Texas | It's not a cheap one its one of those nearly blinged $2000.00 ones. But to me just because it's what is is doesn't mean it is gonna work on all horses, to me it's no different than a treed saddles if it don't fit a horse they may buck with one of those as well.
Just checking to see if maybe anyone else has had one buck in a treeless |
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Expert
Posts: 1432
| Yes, I had a mare that has never bucked but when I rode her with a treeless she bucked. I didn't like it either so I sold it.. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 585
Location: Texas | Early day horseman rode bareback. From traveling to waging war, for hundreds of years, man rode without a saddle.
Yes I am defending my decision to ride a Bob Marshall. |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | workerbee - 2015-04-30 9:52 AM Early day horseman rode bareback. From traveling to waging war, for hundreds of years, man rode without a saddle. Yes I am defending my decision to ride a Bob Marshall.
No one has to defend riding in a treeless. You ride in what works for you.
There is a big difference in riding bareback and riding in a treeless. |
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Red Hot Cardinal Fan
Posts: 4122
| I think it can make one buck just like a treed saddle has made one of mine hump up thats used to getting rode in a treeless. Horses and people have their own preferences, and what works for one may not work for another. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | workerbee - 2015-04-30 9:52 AM
Early day horseman rode bareback. From traveling to waging war, for hundreds of years, man rode without a saddle.
Yes I am defending my decision to ride a Bob Marshall.
And why do you feel like you need to defend yourself, who cares what you ride in, its no ones business, the OP asked a question.  |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 585
Location: Texas | Nevertooold - 2015-04-30 10:01 AM
workerbee - 2015-04-30 9:52 AM Early day horseman rode bareback. From traveling to waging war, for hundreds of years, man rode without a saddle. Yes I am defending my decision to ride a Bob Marshall.
No one has to defend riding in a treeless. You ride in what works for you.
There is a big difference in riding bareback and riding in a treeless.
When you say there is a big difference, what do you mean? Inquisitive not argumentative. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 585
Location: Texas | Southtxponygirl - 2015-04-30 10:46 AM
workerbee - 2015-04-30 9:52 AM
Early day horseman rode bareback. From traveling to waging war, for hundreds of years, man rode without a saddle.
Yes I am defending my decision to ride a Bob Marshall.
And why do you feel like you need to defend yourself, who cares what you ride in, its no ones business, the OP asked a question.
Yes, I understand that the OP asked a question. My response was lighthearted meaning horses have been rode longer than saddles have been around. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2013
Location: Piedmont, OK | Any improper fitting saddle treed or treeless could cause a horse to buck |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | I have been riding treeless saddles (Bob Marshall originals, to be specific) since the early 90's and have won way over 6 figures running barrels with them. If you've been on this site for any time at all, you know how many horses I have go through my barn in a year. I ride them all in a treeless. They don't get sore, and I even cured one that came to me sore backed from being ridden in a Pozzi by riding him in a treeless. They do not pinch if they are placed on the back correctly. Most people place them too far up and don't bother to get educated about how to place them and how to cinch them up.
Now, in answer to your question, kickincans....I did have one older horse (he was 12) that would buck with a treeless. He would also buck with a treed saddle, but he bucked MORE with the treeless. I do think it was the close contact that he didn't like and being able to feel the rider. He had been vetted and he was not sore in his back. Just cowbred and ornery. Most of the horses I put in a treeless love them. I've had horses come to me extremely cinchy and after being ridden in my treeless saddles for about a month, become non-cinchy. I love them and won't ride anything else, but they are not a treed saddle and some horses have to get used to the "feel". Does your friend's horse try to buck when it's ridden bareback? If so, I would say it doesn't like being able to feel the rider. If not, perhaps she has it pulled too far forward and it's pinching the withers. |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | workerbee - 2015-04-30 12:27 PM Nevertooold - 2015-04-30 10:01 AM workerbee - 2015-04-30 9:52 AM Early day horseman rode bareback. From traveling to waging war, for hundreds of years, man rode without a saddle. Yes I am defending my decision to ride a Bob Marshall. No one has to defend riding in a treeless. You ride in what works for you.
There is a big difference in riding bareback and riding in a treeless. When you say there is a big difference, what do you mean? Inquisitive not argumentative.
A treeless still has a cantle and pommel and can put pressure and/or pinch depending on how your horse is made and the saddle is made.
Horses back then didn't live into their 20's and still be sound and ridable. A horse in their early teens was considered an old horse and many would end up being retired because of soundness issues when I was growing up. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 616
Location: Texas | dianeguinn - 2015-04-30 4:11 PM
I have been riding treeless saddles (Bob Marshall originals, to be specific) since the early 90's and have won way over 6 figures running barrels with them. If you've been on this site for any time at all, you know how many horses I have go through my barn in a year. I ride them all in a treeless. They don't get sore, and I even cured one that came to me sore backed from being ridden in a Pozzi by riding him in a treeless. They do not pinch if they are placed on the back correctly. Most people place them too far up and don't bother to get educated about how to place them and how to cinch them up.
Now, in answer to your question, kickincans....I did have one older horse (he was 12) that would buck with a treeless. He would also buck with a treed saddle, but he bucked MORE with the treeless. I do think it was the close contact that he didn't like and being able to feel the rider. He had been vetted and he was not sore in his back. Just cowbred and ornery. Most of the horses I put in a treeless love them. I've had horses come to me extremely cinchy and after being ridden in my treeless saddles for about a month, become non-cinchy. I love them and won't ride anything else, but they are not a treed saddle and some horses have to get used to the "feel". Does your friend's horse try to buck when it's ridden bareback? If so, I would say it doesn't like being able to feel the rider. If not, perhaps she has it pulled too far forward and it's pinching the withers.
I am not sure if he will buck bare back, I haven't been around when or if she has ridden him bareback, I am kinda leaning toward maybe the closer contact of the treeless, just hard to figure |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | kickincans - 2015-04-30 10:14 PM dianeguinn - 2015-04-30 4:11 PM I have been riding treeless saddles (Bob Marshall originals, to be specific) since the early 90's and have won way over 6 figures running barrels with them. If you've been on this site for any time at all, you know how many horses I have go through my barn in a year. I ride them all in a treeless. They don't get sore, and I even cured one that came to me sore backed from being ridden in a Pozzi by riding him in a treeless. They do not pinch if they are placed on the back correctly. Most people place them too far up and don't bother to get educated about how to place them and how to cinch them up. Now, in answer to your question, kickincans....I did have one older horse (he was 12) that would buck with a treeless. He would also buck with a treed saddle, but he bucked MORE with the treeless. I do think it was the close contact that he didn't like and being able to feel the rider. He had been vetted and he was not sore in his back. Just cowbred and ornery. Most of the horses I put in a treeless love them. I've had horses come to me extremely cinchy and after being ridden in my treeless saddles for about a month, become non-cinchy. I love them and won't ride anything else, but they are not a treed saddle and some horses have to get used to the "feel". Does your friend's horse try to buck when it's ridden bareback? If so, I would say it doesn't like being able to feel the rider. If not, perhaps she has it pulled too far forward and it's pinching the withers. I am not sure if he will buck bare back, I haven't been around when or if she has ridden him bareback, I am kinda leaning toward maybe the closer contact of the treeless, just hard to figure
How is your friends horse built? I know that the swells/pommel can be a bit tight in the withers if her horse is built heavy so it could be pinching some and causing him to buck, or could not like the close contact feel of the rider. I custom a BM barrel saddle with a trail pommel so that it would be wider for my heavy built gelding. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 616
Location: Texas | He is a stocky built guy, has a long back the treeless she has is one of the wide fit
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | kickincans - 2015-04-30 10:55 PM He is a stocky built guy, has a long back the treeless she has is one of the wide fit Once I tryed a barrel pad that was stiffer then I liked but it was suppose to be the best pad out there, this was like 20 years ago, anyway got one to use, it was a banana pad that a roper put out, well was way to stiff and my sweet boy would buck when I used that pad, changed pads no more bucking.
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2015-04-30 11:03 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 616
Location: Texas | I will tell her to try a different pad, heck it's not going to hurt to try |
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 Expert
Posts: 4625
Location: Desert Land | I had a gelding with would NOT tolerate a treeless. He humped up with just the saddle on - no rider. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 616
Location: Texas | Well my opinion was that she just go back to her other saddle
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| A old saddle trader told me that if you are heavy and and not a real good rider you could sore a horse with a bob marshall. But if you not a good rider ypu can sore a horse up in the back as a tree will dissapate the pressure from hitting your horses back and the treeless will not. I dont know as i have ridden in treeless for years and never sored one up, i had a horse who was sore and after many visits from the vet couldnot really figure out what was going on he would only ride in a treeless. We eventually found put what was wrong he had a low level of epm. He was bronchy and if i rode him he was sore. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 616
Location: Texas | She is not heavy probably 140-145, and she can ride, the horse she's riding is a nice horse that can clock usually 1d / 2d
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | kickincans - 2015-05-02 6:20 PM Well my opinion was that she just go back to her other saddle
Did her horse buck with her other saddle? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 616
Location: Texas | No, and he didn't buck with the treeless for a couple of months |
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Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | Have you checked the pad..... I ride with a 5star and treeless and had one of mine start setting back when I saddled couldn't figure it out he had always rode great with the treeless finally started thinking how old my pad was they are recommend 2000 rides well I changed to one of my new pads problem solved.
Edited by CJE 2015-05-03 10:28 PM
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Treeless saddle could it cause a horse to BUCK?