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 Extreme Veteran
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Location: Loma Linda, CA | I was thinking of sending my futurity filly out to a reining trainer (Bob Avila) to get her start, but then one of my friends said to send her to a barrel trainer.... but all the barrel trainers I know say to send them to a reining or cutting trainer first.
Ah!
I hate this whole 2 year old game already lol.
I'm still leaning on sending her to Bob anyways. The reiners are just so broke and soft and I love running the ones with reining training on barrels, they seem to literally just slide around them.
Anyways, thoughts? What do you do for your 2 year olds? |
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  Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
 
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | My new first rule is to send them to someone that will feed them.
Bo Stewart broke my filly with Gunnar Enlow now and he but a great reining foundation on her. I'm not big player in this game by any means, but I really like the way my filly is broke and she's doing well in training with Gunnar. |
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The Advice Guru
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| I personally like working cow or cutting trainers better, but if you like and ride x reiners I would say go that way. |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
 
Location: Gainesville, TX | They do get soft if you send them to a reining trainer. Sometimes they get too soft.
Teryn Muench does a good job. He does both reining and cutting but knows the difference between a horse that will show in these events and one that is going to barrels. Tell him what you are doing and he will get them well broke without having their head buried in their chest. Teryn has our six year old and this horse is one tough cookie. He's doing well with him.
Really recommend Liana Deweese for a continuing foundation or to train for the barrels themselves. She has my three year old right now. She'll get the six year old when Teryn releases him. |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | oija - 2015-04-29 12:32 PM They do get soft if you send them to a reining trainer. Sometimes they get too soft. Teryn Muench does a good job. He does both reining and cutting but knows the difference between a horse that will show in these events and one that is going to barrels. Tell him what you are doing and he will get them well broke without having their head buried in their chest. Teryn has our six year old and this horse is one tough cookie. He's doing well with him. Really recommend Liana Deweese for a continuing foundation or to train for the barrels themselves. She has my three year old right now. She'll get the six year old when Teryn releases him.
I hear good thing after good thing about Liana. |
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 Chasin my Dream
Posts: 13651
Location: Alberta | The trainer I send to cowboys off the horses he breaks, if I had to say his "discipline" he used to train a lot for reining and reining cow horse competitions, but majority of what he does is ranch work miles. He puts an amazing handle on a horse, I like the variety he offers them, not just arena miles but they learn to work and how to handle themselves. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 331
Location: Loma Linda, CA | Yeah, I just talked to Bob and told him she's a barrel futurity horse and he said that was fine. I honestly thought he would say no since he's a reiner haha!
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Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | Call the barrel trainer you plan on using and ask him/her who they use. They know who they like to ride behind. I would think Bob A would be a little overkill for breaking one out.... |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| We get colts from big name cutters and reiners that the owner is just tickled pink with and say that the trainer did this and that with and blah blah blah. Well we can tell that they didn't really ride said horse. Yes, it will ride without bucking, stop, back up, and hold gaits etc... But these trainers sometimes see people from other disciplines coming a mile away. What I mean is this big name trainer charged you upwards of $1200 month for their apprentice who knows jack diddly to ride them, or they themselves only rode them maybe 12 times for their whole 2-3 month stay. You probably could have got a horse trainer or kid down the street to get them basic broke for you much cheaper and have the same basic handle put on them.
Many people don't realize those trainers can make a goat ride like it has a handle when you come for your viewing of your colt. But you get up there and try to make it do the same things and its much harder for you. All I'm saying is be sure that these trainers from other disciplines will actually ride your horse, especially if your shelling out the moolah for it. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 331
Location: Loma Linda, CA | I'd think that if Bob is as respected a horseman as he is that my horse should be broke like it.
And I realize it will most likely be someone else riding my filly, but would he really want his name trashed? He's got too much of a reputation. |
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 Heeler Hoarder
Posts: 2067
| 60-90 days with a reining trainer then onto barrel trainer. I want mine BROKE lol |
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 Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | Chase Shafer has my 2 YO El Scorcho filly. She should be ready to come home soon after 30 days. I asked him to not treat her like a fragile little barrel pony and to expose her to any and everything possible while she's there. The only thing I expect in 30 days is for her to be safe to get on and follow her nose. Walk, trot, lope, stop, and starting to back. I am capable of putting all of the handle and feel on my colts myself and prefer to so I know where the buttons are at and how to push them. Anyway, I received these pictures from him earlier this week. Needless to say, i'm happy with her and excited to get her home.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 331
Location: Loma Linda, CA | I honestly just feel like this whole thing becomes complicated.
Everytime I pick a trainer someone has something bad to say and then I get worried that my horse won't be what I want it to be.
Thats why I picked a big name like Bob. I don't wanna pick someone who's gonna put a so-so handle on her.
>.< |
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Heeler Hoarder
Posts: 2067
| astreakinchic - 2015-04-29 12:41 PM
We get colts from big name cutters and reiners that the owner is just tickled pink with and say that the trainer did this and that with and blah blah blah. Well we can tell that they didn't really ride said horse. Yes, it will ride without bucking, stop, back up, and hold gaits etc... But these trainers sometimes see people from other disciplines coming a mile away. What I mean is this big name trainer charged you upwards of $1200 month for their apprentice who knows jack diddly to ride them, or they themselves only rode them maybe 12 times for their whole 2-3 month stay. You probably could have got a horse trainer or kid down the street to get them basic broke for you much cheaper and have the same basic handle put on them.
Many people don't realize those trainers can make a goat ride like it has a handle when you come for your viewing of your colt. But you get up there and try to make it do the same things and its much harder for you. All I'm saying is be sure that these trainers from other disciplines will actually ride your horse, especially if your shelling out the moolah for it.
I agree 100% ! My reining guy has someone that rides them the first week or depending on if they buck ( I haven't sent him any that were buckers) ride them the first few mins then he gets on them. I always go ride them to see if I am satisfied with where they are before I take them onto my barrel trainer. I agree they can make a donkey look good but if you can find a HONEST trainer stick with them ! I LOVE who starts mine his name is Chris Hull from Hull Performance Horses in Madisonville Tn if anyone in the area is looking for a trainer. |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | I've heard that the donkey is coming home with her too...... |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Tn_Barrelracer - 2015-04-29 1:50 PM
astreakinchic - 2015-04-29 12:41 PM
We get colts from big name cutters and reiners that the owner is just tickled pink with and say that the trainer did this and that with and blah blah blah. Well we can tell that they didn't really ride said horse. Yes, it will ride without bucking, stop, back up, and hold gaits etc... But these trainers sometimes see people from other disciplines coming a mile away. What I mean is this big name trainer charged you upwards of $1200 month for their apprentice who knows jack diddly to ride them, or they themselves only rode them maybe 12 times for their whole 2-3 month stay. You probably could have got a horse trainer or kid down the street to get them basic broke for you much cheaper and have the same basic handle put on them.
Many people don't realize those trainers can make a goat ride like it has a handle when you come for your viewing of your colt. But you get up there and try to make it do the same things and its much harder for you. All I'm saying is be sure that these trainers from other disciplines will actually ride your horse, especially if your shelling out the moolah for it.
I agree 100% ! My reining guy has someone that rides them the first week or depending on if they buck ( I haven't sent him any that were buckers ) ride them the first few mins then he gets on them. I always go ride them to see if I am satisfied with where they are before I take them onto my barrel trainer. I agree they can make a donkey look good but if you can find a HONEST trainer stick with them ! I LOVE who starts mine his name is Chris Hull from Hull Performance Horses in Madisonville Tn if anyone in the area is looking for a trainer.
Chris is good, no problem riding after his! Most cutters and reiners have "gallop boys" as we call them hehehehe 
The trouble is ppl think they have found an honest trainer but really not so much...
Edited by astreakinchic 2015-04-29 12:56 PM
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 Peecans
| There are very few people I will send a horse too.
One is a cutting trainer, I have rode with and for him for many years. I know what he does every single day and I know i can ride my horse after he is done.
I acatualy think that is very important and gets very much over looked. You must fond sombody that you can ride after, or be willing to take lessons to learn how to use your horses buttons.
I know many things are the same the basics, but when you really get to polishing a horse up, some trainers can be very difficult to ride behind and have your horse work good for you.
A BB has my young mare right now, and i am extremely impressed with the job shes doing, and the extra care shes putting into my mare. She had not been ridden in over a year, found out her back was very out. She got her fixed and shes already on barrels looking fantastic! But I really like how she rides and how quite she stays with her hands and body.
I can not fallow up after an aggressive rider on barrels, I just can't lol. |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| oija - 2015-04-29 12:32 PM They do get soft if you send them to a reining trainer. Sometimes they get too soft. Teryn Muench does a good job. He does both reining and cutting but knows the difference between a horse that will show in these events and one that is going to barrels. Tell him what you are doing and he will get them well broke without having their head buried in their chest. Teryn has our six year old and this horse is one tough cookie. He's doing well with him. Really recommend Liana Deweese for a continuing foundation or to train for the barrels themselves. She has my three year old right now. She'll get the six year old when Teryn releases him.
There is no such thing as to soft.... or to broke. Problem is a lot of people just cant ride broke horses (lessons and time fixes that problem). So many people have problems with their horses because their horses just arent broke nearly enough.... Thats my soap box for the day. |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | LRQHS - 2015-04-29 12:51 PM I've heard that the donkey is coming home with her too......
Oh I sure hope so!!!!! You know I love donkeys!!!!! |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 1:02 PM
oija - 2015-04-29 12:32 PM They do get soft if you send them to a reining trainer. Sometimes they get too soft. Teryn Muench does a good job. He does both reining and cutting but knows the difference between a horse that will show in these events and one that is going to barrels. Tell him what you are doing and he will get them well broke without having their head buried in their chest. Teryn has our six year old and this horse is one tough cookie. He's doing well with him. Really recommend Liana Deweese for a continuing foundation or to train for the barrels themselves. She has my three year old right now. She'll get the six year old when Teryn releases him.
There is no such thing as to soft.... or to broke. Problem is a lot of people just cant ride broke horses (lessons and time fixes that problem). So many people have problems with their horses because their horses just arent broke nearly enough.... Thats my soap box for the day.
Respectfully disagree. I understand what Oija is saying. |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| GLP - 2015-04-29 1:12 PM WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 1:02 PM oija - 2015-04-29 12:32 PM They do get soft if you send them to a reining trainer. Sometimes they get too soft. Teryn Muench does a good job. He does both reining and cutting but knows the difference between a horse that will show in these events and one that is going to barrels. Tell him what you are doing and he will get them well broke without having their head buried in their chest. Teryn has our six year old and this horse is one tough cookie. He's doing well with him. Really recommend Liana Deweese for a continuing foundation or to train for the barrels themselves. She has my three year old right now. She'll get the six year old when Teryn releases him. There is no such thing as to soft.... or to broke. Problem is a lot of people just cant ride broke horses (lessons and time fixes that problem). So many people have problems with their horses because their horses just arent broke nearly enough.... Thats my soap box for the day. Respectfully disagree. I understand what Oija is saying.
Edited by WetSaddleBlankets 2015-04-29 1:36 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 331
Location: Loma Linda, CA | So I just talked to a friend of mine who has used the big wig trainers and she made a point I think some were trying to make
She said she had a horse that got ridden only the times when she went to go see how it was trained cause the trainer took in too many, it was all money, and it was there for months and still acted just as green as the day she brought it!
So I think I will continue my search :)
Thanks for the input.
If anyone knows of any good colt starters in Southern California I am all ears! |
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | A big name does NOT guarantee a great broke horse for you. A great reputation is better.
Big names can sometimes help with resale value. But are you wanting to keep the horse. If you wanted to sell, are you selling it as a barrel horse as a reiner? That should help you make some decision.
Personally, I want to pay for a trainer that I know rides my horses, usually six days a week, no interns. I'm paying for their seat in the saddle, not an intern. I want a trainer who takes superior care of my horses and pays particular attention to their health and soundness. I want a trainer that IS NOT ROUGH but patient, is firm if needed but does not torture my horse. I also want 'after care.' If I have a question or want to spend a day or two making sure I can ride after them, then I'd like that luxury. I also want frequent reports. I get all this from Liana. She lets me know how my horse settled in the day after I drop her off. Within the first week I get a report. Then every 6-10 days I get a report. I get a video every 30. She'd do it more often if I asked. She's tremendous about answering my questions, from breeding to soundness to future plans for my horses. So long as she can get on a horse she will get my business. And I will send as much other business her way as I can. She's hours away but if I let her know I'm sure she would let me drop by and see my horse. I don't worry though because the videos tell me just how good of physical condition my filly is in. My vet tells me too.
My horse comes back soft in the mouth and quiet in the mind. She's worked outside of the arena as well as in it. There are a number of trainers that have similar philosophies. Find one, visit their facility, talk to their customers, do your homework, watch their videos, look at their contract, and then make up your mind. I did close to 6 months of investigating before I settled on Liana. I had her picked out quite a bit before her two year old year.
I believe some of the trainers LQHRS mentions also have somewhat similar philosophies. I would go with someone like that. I think you'll have a more involved training process and understand your horse better.
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 1:34 PM
GLP - 2015-04-29 1:12 PM WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 1:02 PM oija - 2015-04-29 12:32 PM They do get soft if you send them to a reining trainer. Sometimes they get too soft. Teryn Muench does a good job. He does both reining and cutting but knows the difference between a horse that will show in these events and one that is going to barrels. Tell him what you are doing and he will get them well broke without having their head buried in their chest. Teryn has our six year old and this horse is one tough cookie. He's doing well with him. Really recommend Liana Deweese for a continuing foundation or to train for the barrels themselves. She has my three year old right now. She'll get the six year old when Teryn releases him. There is no such thing as to soft.... or to broke. Problem is a lot of people just cant ride broke horses (lessons and time fixes that problem). So many people have problems with their horses because their horses just arent broke nearly enough.... Thats my soap box for the day. Respectfully disagree. I understand what Oija is saying. I respectfully disagree with you.... If you are talking about a "finished" reining horse or pleasure horse I can understand... Because of the head set blah blah they do for showing BUT you can not make a horse to broke... people dont have the horsemanship skills to ride them is the problem...
What I mean by too soft is a particular reference to the face. They will be bent over themselves. This is a particularly effective posture if you are trying to do sliding stops and spins, not so effective for barrel racing where they need their head at least level and watching where they are going better.
A good trainer will still give them the basics AND make them soft, but soft in the body and more responsive to feet and seat, less on the hands. A good reining trainer at a show looks like they never use their hands but often at home they do have to get on to them quite a bit in order to get that posture. I like body soft but not bent.
And I have a ton of respect for reining and some reining rejects actually go on to make great barrel horses, BUT full on reining maneuvers are not necessary for barrels, and sometimes because those maneuvers can be particularly hard on a young horse (and barrels is already pretty hard on them). I really don't want my two year old trying to do a big sliding stop. Barrels is hard enough on the hocks and stifles. I think its better for their longevity if they do one or the other.
Edited by oija 2015-04-29 4:48 PM
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | GLP - 2015-04-29 1:12 PM WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 1:02 PM oija - 2015-04-29 12:32 PM They do get soft if you send them to a reining trainer. Sometimes they get too soft. Teryn Muench does a good job. He does both reining and cutting but knows the difference between a horse that will show in these events and one that is going to barrels. Tell him what you are doing and he will get them well broke without having their head buried in their chest. Teryn has our six year old and this horse is one tough cookie. He's doing well with him. Really recommend Liana Deweese for a continuing foundation or to train for the barrels themselves. She has my three year old right now. She'll get the six year old when Teryn releases him. There is no such thing as to soft.... or to broke. Problem is a lot of people just cant ride broke horses (lessons and time fixes that problem). So many people have problems with their horses because their horses just arent broke nearly enough.... Thats my soap box for the day. Respectfully disagree. I understand what Oija is saying.
Yeah, I get it. I want to be able to handle mine without them hiding their face, slamming on brakes, or changing leads constantly. |
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 Special Somebody
Posts: 3951
Location: Finally horseback again.... | WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 1:34 PM GLP - 2015-04-29 1:12 PM WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 1:02 PM oija - 2015-04-29 12:32 PM They do get soft if you send them to a reining trainer. Sometimes they get too soft. Teryn Muench does a good job. He does both reining and cutting but knows the difference between a horse that will show in these events and one that is going to barrels. Tell him what you are doing and he will get them well broke without having their head buried in their chest. Teryn has our six year old and this horse is one tough cookie. He's doing well with him. Really recommend Liana Deweese for a continuing foundation or to train for the barrels themselves. She has my three year old right now. She'll get the six year old when Teryn releases him. There is no such thing as to soft.... or to broke. Problem is a lot of people just cant ride broke horses (lessons and time fixes that problem). So many people have problems with their horses because their horses just arent broke nearly enough.... Thats my soap box for the day. Respectfully disagree. I understand what Oija is saying. I respectfully disagree with you.... If you are talking about a "finished" reining horse or pleasure horse I can understand... Because of the head set blah blah they do for showing BUT you can not make a horse to broke... people dont have the horsemanship skills to ride them is the problem...
I totally agree with WSB!!
I heard that just recently from a guy we sent a colt to in the feedlot.
He had less than 30 days on him and was very soft in the bridle, sides and moving well off your leg.
The guy rode him three times and says he is TOO SOFT... wth???
To me, there is no such thing as too soft, there is however people who cant ride horses like that because they ride pulling on their face. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Canchasr1 - 2015-04-29 4:58 PM
WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 1:34 PM GLP - 2015-04-29 1:12 PM WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 1:02 PM oija - 2015-04-29 12:32 PM They do get soft if you send them to a reining trainer. Sometimes they get too soft. Teryn Muench does a good job. He does both reining and cutting but knows the difference between a horse that will show in these events and one that is going to barrels. Tell him what you are doing and he will get them well broke without having their head buried in their chest. Teryn has our six year old and this horse is one tough cookie. He's doing well with him. Really recommend Liana Deweese for a continuing foundation or to train for the barrels themselves. She has my three year old right now. She'll get the six year old when Teryn releases him. There is no such thing as to soft.... or to broke. Problem is a lot of people just cant ride broke horses (lessons and time fixes that problem). So many people have problems with their horses because their horses just arent broke nearly enough.... Thats my soap box for the day. Respectfully disagree. I understand what Oija is saying. I respectfully disagree with you.... If you are talking about a "finished" reining horse or pleasure horse I can understand... Because of the head set blah blah they do for showing BUT you can not make a horse to broke... people dont have the horsemanship skills to ride them is the problem...
I heard that just recently from a guy we sent a colt to in the feedlot.
He had less than 30 days on him and was very soft in the bridle, sides and moving well off your leg.
The guy rode him three times and says he is TOO SOFT... wth???
To me, there is no such thing as too soft, there is however people who cant ride horses like that because they ride pulling on their face.
I have heard too soft, and I have an awesome mare that is too soft.
Too soft in the face are the ones who bury their face in their chest when you pick up on the reins.
Sometimes these horses will bring their chin to the chest and ignore the body cues causing to excert more force on the face to get a horse to stop or turn.
My mare when she wants to run and I am trying to hold her in, or position her in the alley, she will put chin to chest and run till I pull harder sit deep and make her stop. |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| cheryl makofka - 2015-04-29 8:51 PM Canchasr1 - 2015-04-29 4:58 PM WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 1:34 PM GLP - 2015-04-29 1:12 PM WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 1:02 PM oija - 2015-04-29 12:32 PM They do get soft if you send them to a reining trainer. Sometimes they get too soft. Teryn Muench does a good job. He does both reining and cutting but knows the difference between a horse that will show in these events and one that is going to barrels. Tell him what you are doing and he will get them well broke without having their head buried in their chest. Teryn has our six year old and this horse is one tough cookie. He's doing well with him. Really recommend Liana Deweese for a continuing foundation or to train for the barrels themselves. She has my three year old right now. She'll get the six year old when Teryn releases him. There is no such thing as to soft.... or to broke. Problem is a lot of people just cant ride broke horses (lessons and time fixes that problem). So many people have problems with their horses because their horses just arent broke nearly enough.... Thats my soap box for the day. Respectfully disagree. I understand what Oija is saying. I respectfully disagree with you.... If you are talking about a "finished" reining horse or pleasure horse I can understand... Because of the head set blah blah they do for showing BUT you can not make a horse to broke... people dont have the horsemanship skills to ride them is the problem...
I heard that just recently from a guy we sent a colt to in the feedlot.
He had less than 30 days on him and was very soft in the bridle, sides and moving well off your leg.
The guy rode him three times and says he is TOO SOFT... wth???
To me, there is no such thing as too soft, there is however people who cant ride horses like that because they ride pulling on their face. I have heard too soft, and I have an awesome mare that is too soft. Too soft in the face are the ones who bury their face in their chest when you pick up on the reins. Sometimes these horses will bring their chin to the chest and ignore the body cues causing to excert more force on the face to get a horse to stop or turn. My mare when she wants to run and I am trying to hold her in, or position her in the alley, she will put chin to chest and run till I pull harder sit deep and make her stop.
Edited by WetSaddleBlankets 2015-04-29 10:02 PM
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-29 4:33 PM GLP - 2015-04-29 1:12 PM WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 1:02 PM oija - 2015-04-29 12:32 PM They do get soft if you send them to a reining trainer. Sometimes they get too soft. Teryn Muench does a good job. He does both reining and cutting but knows the difference between a horse that will show in these events and one that is going to barrels. Tell him what you are doing and he will get them well broke without having their head buried in their chest. Teryn has our six year old and this horse is one tough cookie. He's doing well with him. Really recommend Liana Deweese for a continuing foundation or to train for the barrels themselves. She has my three year old right now. She'll get the six year old when Teryn releases him. There is no such thing as to soft.... or to broke. Problem is a lot of people just cant ride broke horses (lessons and time fixes that problem). So many people have problems with their horses because their horses just arent broke nearly enough.... Thats my soap box for the day. Respectfully disagree. I understand what Oija is saying.
this would be a rider problem not a horse problem.... |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 10:03 PM Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-29 4:33 PM GLP - 2015-04-29 1:12 PM WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 1:02 PM oija - 2015-04-29 12:32 PM They do get soft if you send them to a reining trainer. Sometimes they get too soft. Teryn Muench does a good job. He does both reining and cutting but knows the difference between a horse that will show in these events and one that is going to barrels. Tell him what you are doing and he will get them well broke without having their head buried in their chest. Teryn has our six year old and this horse is one tough cookie. He's doing well with him. Really recommend Liana Deweese for a continuing foundation or to train for the barrels themselves. She has my three year old right now. She'll get the six year old when Teryn releases him. There is no such thing as to soft.... or to broke. Problem is a lot of people just cant ride broke horses (lessons and time fixes that problem). So many people have problems with their horses because their horses just arent broke nearly enough.... Thats my soap box for the day. Respectfully disagree. I understand what Oija is saying. this would be a rider problem not a horse problem....
No, it's a training problem. I want mine IN the bridle, not behind it. I want a soft, melty stop with forward movement, not get in the ground hard when you say whoa, and I want to be able to move their bodies around with my legs with out lead changes. I know what I like and what's easier to ride when you're making a competition run. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 11:01 PM cheryl makofka - 2015-04-29 8:51 PM Canchasr1 - 2015-04-29 4:58 PM WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 1:34 PM GLP - 2015-04-29 1:12 PM WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 1:02 PM oija - 2015-04-29 12:32 PM They do get soft if you send them to a reining trainer. Sometimes they get too soft. Teryn Muench does a good job. He does both reining and cutting but knows the difference between a horse that will show in these events and one that is going to barrels. Tell him what you are doing and he will get them well broke without having their head buried in their chest. Teryn has our six year old and this horse is one tough cookie. He's doing well with him. Really recommend Liana Deweese for a continuing foundation or to train for the barrels themselves. She has my three year old right now. She'll get the six year old when Teryn releases him. There is no such thing as to soft.... or to broke. Problem is a lot of people just cant ride broke horses (lessons and time fixes that problem). So many people have problems with their horses because their horses just arent broke nearly enough.... Thats my soap box for the day. Respectfully disagree. I understand what Oija is saying. I respectfully disagree with you.... If you are talking about a "finished" reining horse or pleasure horse I can understand... Because of the head set blah blah they do for showing BUT you can not make a horse to broke... people dont have the horsemanship skills to ride them is the problem...
I heard that just recently from a guy we sent a colt to in the feedlot.
He had less than 30 days on him and was very soft in the bridle, sides and moving well off your leg.
The guy rode him three times and says he is TOO SOFT... wth???
To me, there is no such thing as too soft, there is however people who cant ride horses like that because they ride pulling on their face. I have heard too soft, and I have an awesome mare that is too soft. Too soft in the face are the ones who bury their face in their chest when you pick up on the reins. Sometimes these horses will bring their chin to the chest and ignore the body cues causing to excert more force on the face to get a horse to stop or turn. My mare when she wants to run and I am trying to hold her in, or position her in the alley, she will put chin to chest and run till I pull harder sit deep and make her stop.
Yea what she said your horse is evading the bit, she's getting to broke but isn't there yet. She's actually getting out of work and not listening. She's really giving you the bird when she tucks her chin and runs off...
She's like 70% to broke and is saying F you on the other 30%, IMO. Work more with her being "on the bit" and carrying it with confidence and breaking at the poll. She's breaking over more than vertical to get away from pressure and your having to pull twice as hard to get her to stop, in reality she's not listening to you she's taking the bit and running with it and doing what she wants. At a walk and in her dry work she probably doesn't run off but does tuck her head and act mannerly but sounds like once you get ahold of her she's evading the bit.
I went back and highlighted the above bc I've seen some pleasure rejects in the barn that started off evading the bit and the trainer sent them packing as a pleasure horse. We got them moving out on their front and to quit evading the bit but the unnatural head set he put on that mare stayed with her and even once realeased she'd assume the position and start evading the bit. It took a year to break her of the habit and she made a decent lil 1d local show horse after all that trouble.
Most amatuers make the mistake of trying to hold the horse in a fixed position and "train it to stay there" IMO they aren't learning crap that way and it causes them to evade the bit looking for that pressure release. Ask them to break, release when they do and let them make the mistake of going back to being a giraffe then put pressure on them again to break. If you hold it there constantly they are not learning how to keep it there themselves and your opening the door for them to evade.
Edited by astreakinchic 2015-04-30 7:01 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-30 7:30 AM
WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 10:03 PM Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-29 4:33 PM GLP - 2015-04-29 1:12 PM WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 1:02 PM oija - 2015-04-29 12:32 PM They do get soft if you send them to a reining trainer. Sometimes they get too soft. Teryn Muench does a good job. He does both reining and cutting but knows the difference between a horse that will show in these events and one that is going to barrels. Tell him what you are doing and he will get them well broke without having their head buried in their chest. Teryn has our six year old and this horse is one tough cookie. He's doing well with him. Really recommend Liana Deweese for a continuing foundation or to train for the barrels themselves. She has my three year old right now. She'll get the six year old when Teryn releases him. There is no such thing as to soft.... or to broke. Problem is a lot of people just cant ride broke horses (lessons and time fixes that problem). So many people have problems with their horses because their horses just arent broke nearly enough.... Thats my soap box for the day. Respectfully disagree. I understand what Oija is saying. this would be a rider problem not a horse problem....
I'm going to play devils advocate I guess. Let me throw this out there its a training and a rider problem. 90% of barrel racers cannot ride a broke horse...I'm sorry they just can't and its because they have never sat on one. When you sit on a truly broke "on the bit" horse you will change your riding and say "why in the hell did I ever try to ride by man handling them!?" I'm going to put more blame on the trainer for not knowing his client.
If a novice person sends a horse that I know once I'm finished with they will not be able to ride because they a.) won't change their style of riding b.) just plain out won't listen c.) physically can't change even though they are trying. Well if they fall into that category I will not get the horse as broke in the mouth unless the owner shows me that they are going to make the effort to work on their hands because if they don't learn to have better hands then they are going to be a very unhappy customer. If they can't learn how to fix their hands they literally will not be able to lope that horse once i'm finished with it and I take that into account, because if you don't you'll have some very unhappy customers that can't ride the horse you turn out for them. We've even put an amazing handle on one and then went back and "dulled" them up not to be so touchy so that they owner could get along with them.
Edited by astreakinchic 2015-04-30 8:17 AM
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I will concede for me, it's partly a difference in discipline. I learned to train from someone with a dressage background. My horses are BROKE, but have a different feel. |
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Special Somebody
Posts: 3951
Location: Finally horseback again.... | astreakinchic - 2015-04-30 7:10 AM Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-30 7:30 AM WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 10:03 PM Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-29 4:33 PM GLP - 2015-04-29 1:12 PM WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 1:02 PM oija - 2015-04-29 12:32 PM They do get soft if you send them to a reining trainer. Sometimes they get too soft. Teryn Muench does a good job. He does both reining and cutting but knows the difference between a horse that will show in these events and one that is going to barrels. Tell him what you are doing and he will get them well broke without having their head buried in their chest. Teryn has our six year old and this horse is one tough cookie. He's doing well with him. Really recommend Liana Deweese for a continuing foundation or to train for the barrels themselves. She has my three year old right now. She'll get the six year old when Teryn releases him. There is no such thing as to soft.... or to broke. Problem is a lot of people just cant ride broke horses (lessons and time fixes that problem). So many people have problems with their horses because their horses just arent broke nearly enough.... Thats my soap box for the day. Respectfully disagree. I understand what Oija is saying. this would be a rider problem not a horse problem.... I'm going to play devils advocate I guess. Let me throw this out there its a training and a rider problem. 90% of barrel racers cannot ride a broke horse...I'm sorry they just can't and its because they have never sat on one. When you sit on a truly broke "on the bit" horse you will change your riding and say "why in the hell did I ever try to ride by man handling them!?" I'm going to put more blame on the trainer for not knowing his client. If a novice person sends a horse that I know once I'm finished with they will not be able to ride because they a. ) won't change their style of riding b. ) just plain out won't listen c. ) physically can't change even though they are trying...meaning its going to take away. Well if they fall into that category I will not get the horse as broke in the mouth unless the owner shows me that they are going to make the effort to work on their hands because if they don't learn to have better hands then they are going to be a very unhappy customer. If they can't learn how to fix their hands they literally will not be able to lope that horse once i'm finished with it and I take that into account, because if you don't you'll have some very unhappy customers that can't ride the horse you turn out for them. We've even put an amazing handle on one and then went back and "dulled" them up not to be so touchy so that they owner could get along with them.
^^^^^^^^
This!!!!
100% agree.
But it isnt just barrel racers, it is most people.
My husband and I were just talking about this yesterday.
Being soft does NOT mean a horse burying his face to his chest, it means that you can move that horses face or body with a whisper of a touch and they respond. Too many people mistake softness for what they see horses tucking their heads and looking at the ground while they are riding. Those horses are the ones that have been cranked down by martingales or heavy handed trainers. That is not the true meaning of softness.
I want to be able to move my pinky finger an 1/8 of an inch and get 3 foot of movement from my horse. Most riders cannot ride that.....
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | Canchasr1 - 2015-04-30 8:14 AM astreakinchic - 2015-04-30 7:10 AM Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-30 7:30 AM WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 10:03 PM Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-29 4:33 PM GLP - 2015-04-29 1:12 PM WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 1:02 PM oija - 2015-04-29 12:32 PM They do get soft if you send them to a reining trainer. Sometimes they get too soft. Teryn Muench does a good job. He does both reining and cutting but knows the difference between a horse that will show in these events and one that is going to barrels. Tell him what you are doing and he will get them well broke without having their head buried in their chest. Teryn has our six year old and this horse is one tough cookie. He's doing well with him. Really recommend Liana Deweese for a continuing foundation or to train for the barrels themselves. She has my three year old right now. She'll get the six year old when Teryn releases him. There is no such thing as to soft.... or to broke. Problem is a lot of people just cant ride broke horses (lessons and time fixes that problem). So many people have problems with their horses because their horses just arent broke nearly enough.... Thats my soap box for the day. Respectfully disagree. I understand what Oija is saying. this would be a rider problem not a horse problem.... I'm going to play devils advocate I guess. Let me throw this out there its a training and a rider problem. 90% of barrel racers cannot ride a broke horse...I'm sorry they just can't and its because they have never sat on one. When you sit on a truly broke "on the bit" horse you will change your riding and say "why in the hell did I ever try to ride by man handling them!?" I'm going to put more blame on the trainer for not knowing his client. If a novice person sends a horse that I know once I'm finished with they will not be able to ride because they a. ) won't change their style of riding b. ) just plain out won't listen c. ) physically can't change even though they are trying...meaning its going to take away. Well if they fall into that category I will not get the horse as broke in the mouth unless the owner shows me that they are going to make the effort to work on their hands because if they don't learn to have better hands then they are going to be a very unhappy customer. If they can't learn how to fix their hands they literally will not be able to lope that horse once i'm finished with it and I take that into account, because if you don't you'll have some very unhappy customers that can't ride the horse you turn out for them. We've even put an amazing handle on one and then went back and "dulled" them up not to be so touchy so that they owner could get along with them.
This!!!!
100% agree.
But it isnt just barrel racers, it is most people.
My husband and I were just talking about this yesterday.
Being soft does NOT mean a horse burying his face to his chest, it means that you can move that horses face or body with a whisper of a touch and they respond. Too many people mistake softness for what they see horses tucking their heads and looking at the ground while they are riding. Those horses are the ones that have been cranked down by martingales or heavy handed trainers. That is not the true meaning of softness.
I want to be able to move my pinky finger an 1/8 of an inch and get 3 foot of movement from my horse. Most riders cannot ride that.....
You and I have also had this discussion so many times and I couldn't agree more! |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Herbie - 2015-04-30 9:32 AM
Canchasr1 - 2015-04-30 8:14 AM astreakinchic - 2015-04-30 7:10 AM Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-30 7:30 AM WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 10:03 PM Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-29 4:33 PM GLP - 2015-04-29 1:12 PM WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 1:02 PM oija - 2015-04-29 12:32 PM They do get soft if you send them to a reining trainer. Sometimes they get too soft. Teryn Muench does a good job. He does both reining and cutting but knows the difference between a horse that will show in these events and one that is going to barrels. Tell him what you are doing and he will get them well broke without having their head buried in their chest. Teryn has our six year old and this horse is one tough cookie. He's doing well with him. Really recommend Liana Deweese for a continuing foundation or to train for the barrels themselves. She has my three year old right now. She'll get the six year old when Teryn releases him. There is no such thing as to soft.... or to broke. Problem is a lot of people just cant ride broke horses (lessons and time fixes that problem). So many people have problems with their horses because their horses just arent broke nearly enough.... Thats my soap box for the day. Respectfully disagree. I understand what Oija is saying. this would be a rider problem not a horse problem.... I'm going to play devils advocate I guess. Let me throw this out there its a training and a rider problem. 90% of barrel racers cannot ride a broke horse...I'm sorry they just can't and its because they have never sat on one. When you sit on a truly broke "on the bit" horse you will change your riding and say "why in the hell did I ever try to ride by man handling them!?" I'm going to put more blame on the trainer for not knowing his client. If a novice person sends a horse that I know once I'm finished with they will not be able to ride because they a. ) won't change their style of riding b. ) just plain out won't listen c. ) physically can't change even though they are trying...meaning its going to take away. Well if they fall into that category I will not get the horse as broke in the mouth unless the owner shows me that they are going to make the effort to work on their hands because if they don't learn to have better hands then they are going to be a very unhappy customer. If they can't learn how to fix their hands they literally will not be able to lope that horse once i'm finished with it and I take that into account, because if you don't you'll have some very unhappy customers that can't ride the horse you turn out for them. We've even put an amazing handle on one and then went back and "dulled" them up not to be so touchy so that they owner could get along with them.
This!!!!
100% agree.
But it isnt just barrel racers, it is most people.
My husband and I were just talking about this yesterday.
Being soft does NOT mean a horse burying his face to his chest, it means that you can move that horses face or body with a whisper of a touch and they respond. Too many people mistake softness for what they see horses tucking their heads and looking at the ground while they are riding. Those horses are the ones that have been cranked down by martingales or heavy handed trainers. That is not the true meaning of softness.
I want to be able to move my pinky finger an 1/8 of an inch and get 3 foot of movement from my horse. Most riders cannot ride that.....
I wish the ppl who bought all these therapies, one weekend $400 plus clinics from "professionals", and these upwards of $4k saddles/ $500 pads would quit with all that jazz and buy some $50 a week reining/cutter/cow horse lessons. It would serve their purpose much better. People want that 3 day quick fix miracle and it don't happen that way jack! Spend your money at the vet or on training for yourself and you'll see improvements!
BTW I'd love to ride with a dressage trainer with an open mind. I've rode with 3 and it was okay but they were not very interested in sharing information nor did they consider my western style horses a legit avenue for their time LOL I am very interested in their concepts of suppleness and flexibility. I've found in their world, just as ours though more often than not trainers go for quick mimics to get results and they really haven't a clue what they are doing. They just got lucky one time with a good natural one that wanted to please and boom they were a big dog but when it comes to consistently turning one out year after year they are lost.
I'll quit now because I think this thread got way off topic. Sorry OP LOL
Edited by astreakinchic 2015-04-30 8:44 AM
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | Canchasr1 - 2015-04-30 8:14 AM
astreakinchic - 2015-04-30 7:10 AM Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-30 7:30 AM WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 10:03 PM Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-29 4:33 PM GLP - 2015-04-29 1:12 PM WetSaddleBlankets - 2015-04-29 1:02 PM oija - 2015-04-29 12:32 PM They do get soft if you send them to a reining trainer. Sometimes they get too soft. Teryn Muench does a good job. He does both reining and cutting but knows the difference between a horse that will show in these events and one that is going to barrels. Tell him what you are doing and he will get them well broke without having their head buried in their chest. Teryn has our six year old and this horse is one tough cookie. He's doing well with him. Really recommend Liana Deweese for a continuing foundation or to train for the barrels themselves. She has my three year old right now. She'll get the six year old when Teryn releases him. There is no such thing as to soft.... or to broke. Problem is a lot of people just cant ride broke horses (lessons and time fixes that problem). So many people have problems with their horses because their horses just arent broke nearly enough.... Thats my soap box for the day. Respectfully disagree. I understand what Oija is saying. this would be a rider problem not a horse problem.... I'm going to play devils advocate I guess. Let me throw this out there its a training and a rider problem. 90% of barrel racers cannot ride a broke horse...I'm sorry they just can't and its because they have never sat on one. When you sit on a truly broke "on the bit" horse you will change your riding and say "why in the hell did I ever try to ride by man handling them!?" I'm going to put more blame on the trainer for not knowing his client. If a novice person sends a horse that I know once I'm finished with they will not be able to ride because they a. ) won't change their style of riding b. ) just plain out won't listen c. ) physically can't change even though they are trying...meaning its going to take away. Well if they fall into that category I will not get the horse as broke in the mouth unless the owner shows me that they are going to make the effort to work on their hands because if they don't learn to have better hands then they are going to be a very unhappy customer. If they can't learn how to fix their hands they literally will not be able to lope that horse once i'm finished with it and I take that into account, because if you don't you'll have some very unhappy customers that can't ride the horse you turn out for them. We've even put an amazing handle on one and then went back and "dulled" them up not to be so touchy so that they owner could get along with them.
This!!!!
100% agree.
But it isnt just barrel racers, it is most people.
My husband and I were just talking about this yesterday.
Being soft does NOT mean a horse burying his face to his chest, it means that you can move that horses face or body with a whisper of a touch and they respond. Too many people mistake softness for what they see horses tucking their heads and looking at the ground while they are riding. Those horses are the ones that have been cranked down by martingales or heavy handed trainers. That is not the true meaning of softness.
I want to be able to move my pinky finger an 1/8 of an inch and get 3 foot of movement from my horse. Most riders cannot ride that.....
That kind of softness I like as well. I'll be honest that I do not always ride that well but try to every time I get on. A horse with a nice responsive mouth and body are great. However, to go back to the OPs question, there are a number of barrel trainers that can give the horse this same level of responsiveness without the more extreme reactions of full on spin or sliding stop etc. A barrel trainer will also teach a different frame, one more appropriate for a horse traveling at considerable speed. A reining trainer can still be overkill on teaching WHAT the horse does in response to the reins or feet, ie both trainers can give a horse the same basic cue in just as soft a manner and the reining horse's reaction may be more extreme or in the wrong frame. Even the best reining trainers who don't get the horse behind the bit are still training horses skills that are more extreme than are needed for barrel horses and again can be harder on a young horse's joints. There are great barrel trainers and colt starters than can give the OP a super nice soft horse appropriate for her discipline. |
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