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Location: U.S. | Just recently my 6 yr old gelding started kicking out when I would stop him in front of a barrel (at any speed) Then it progressed to kicking out (really hard) then cro hopping and bucking. I thought no big deal. I can work him trough it with lots of slow work. But it has been getting worse now he has started throwing fits about everything. ( having to wait too long in the expo pen (full on bucking episode a bad one!) He tripped on a trail ride just a little and had a full on fit, he wanted to turn around on a different trail ride and had seveal bad fits. Today I was just trying to get him to counter bend at a trot and got upset and started kicking out. I think he is just a brat and I have let him get away with too much because he runs really nice but know this is out of control. (He is too powerful for me to get after him for bucking so I have been bending him around tI'll he calms down) But that's not solving the problem! Up until about a month ago he has always been laid back and almost bomb proof...I'm not sure what is going on or what to do??? I took him to the vet and had him looked over and the ciropractor out. They founderstand no issues.... uhg help... |
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7264
  
| Boy, I would still almost think it is a pain issue. I might think about having another vet look at him. If it's not that, I might consider sending him to a trainer. |
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Location: U.S. | I know that is what I thought too (pain) but our vet is awesome he does all our preformancestors horses and race horses. I trust him alot. I have had this colt since he was 2 and I started him right and he has always been great. He is super light and responsive...(and now explosive...) He has all his basics and was started slow and right...I don't get it... |
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Veteran
Posts: 160
| If vet is saying he is ok get a chiropractor to check h out. Sounds to much like pain. Also check saddle fit. If you 100% rule out pain then i would give you advice but hate to see you punish him if hes sore. |
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Location: U.S. | He was checked out last week by the ciropractor. Also his saddle fits him really good. (Already fought that batitle he was a hard fit) |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Check you horse for epm and or ulcers. Will cause the fits. My horse was doing this and has a slight case of epm. |
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 Dog Resuce Agent
Posts: 3459
Location: southeast Texas | Ulcers is my guess. Think of his tummy, a stop brings the stomach acid sloshing over the ulcer and causes pain.... |
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  Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7615
Location: Dubach, LA | Get a massage therapist to check for soft tissue injuries. Vets and chiros can miss those. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Go to a lameness expert, rule out ulcers and bleeding as well, use a respected chiro, and possibly acupuncture. Once you have ruled out all of the above start tuning on his booty!
If you can completely rule out pain, which is hard to do sometimes because so many things can be wrong, then he needs his booty whipped. From what your saying it sounds like he knows your scared and you can't get onto him for bucking, then you need to send him to someone how knows what to do but I'm gonna warn you any horse that gets away with things with their owner will consistently do it unless their owner learns how to handle them. Your gonna haft to work with a trainer to fix him if you can rule out pain.
Edited by astreakinchic 2015-04-30 10:19 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1543
Location: MI | How is he on the ground? Are his manners the same as before, or is he more pushy? Also, if you pony him or lunge/round pen him, how does he act? I would think if it is pain he may still be the same on the ground, but if behavior he might show some other behaviors - less patience? Possibly, I know every horse is different!
I'm not a trainer, or even close :), but earlier this week my gelding was acting a bit off, and limping a little at the trot slightly when I lunged him. I gave him a day and then round penned him for a few minutes yesterday. He was acting a bit off still and crow hopping with trot-lope transitions, but also was a bit pushy on the ground. I actually went and took a video and sent it to my vet because I thought something was wrong.
Then I tried again (I had put polo wraps on him before for the 2nd time, so I took them off) and pushed him a little more and he came around a little. Saddled, tied him up for a little bit, and then I got on him and he started to give me a fit. He didn't feel off though, so I really moved his feet for a while, pushing him through some tight trotting figure 8s and focusing on having him hustle and bend. He came out of it quite well. He's still being a bit of a nutcase, but I think it was that he had a week and a half off and is being a pain about this mare that we are boarding.
Anyway, I hope it gets better for you. I would be really skeptical about pain too, and definitely keep that in mind, but wanted to pass along my recent episode too.
Edited by Ridenrun4745 2015-04-30 7:27 AM
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | What did you vet do? It sounds like Hocks may be fusing.. it may have started as a slight pain but has progressed to tantrums..Did he Xray?
HORSES dont just throw temper tantrums .. as you describe.. there is something hurting.. IMHO.. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| rockstarinboots - 2015-04-30 5:39 AM I know that is what I thought too (pain) but our vet is awesome he does all our preformancestors horses and race horses. I trust him alot. I have had this colt since he was 2 and I started him right and he has always been great. He is super light and responsive...(and now explosive...) He has all his basics and was started slow and right...I don't get it...
I would keep searching for a physical issue, as others have suggested, ulcers or soft tissue. It took a year and over $1000 to find my horses suspensory issue. He was not lame, had no swelling but did not want to work his left barrel. 3 great vets could not find the reason. He fianlly came out of a run 3 legged lame with it torn- vet said it was a progressive injury and what was bothering him all along. It did not show up on ultrasound till it tore. You can get ulcer meds on line and see if there is improvement. I can't remember where but I bought ulcer guard on line for a pretty reasonable price. Good luck. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 639
Location: God's country...aka TEXAS | check for kissing spine. just do a simple back x-ray |
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 Veteran
Posts: 178
| EPM or pain somewhere instantly came to mind. I'd run blood and have him reexamined. I doubt he's doing it for no reason. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| My vet has said firing out can be a sign of a stifle locking up, as sometimes this is the only way the horse can get it to unlock |
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 Expert
Posts: 2135
Location: Somewhere else | Husbands horse is a complete brat. If she slips & falls on the wet grass she will go after anything & everything close to her which is usually my horse or the mule. Hates to be stalled. So far she has tore down every stall door but 2. Taken out 2 back walls in stalls (granted this is a very old barn). She is a complete brat. Got her at the trainers now and he has to keep her in the round pen because of her tearing stuff up. She use to lunge out of the stall trying to bite you when you walked by, then she started kicking when you walked by her stall. A little prayer meeting about those issues and she doesn't strike out at us anymore.
Edited by dakota88 2015-04-30 9:51 AM
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| With a change of behavior, either the horse is hurting somewhere, somehow or he thinks you are pounding on him too much and it's ticking him off. It can sometimes be a real investigation to find out the reasons.
Good luck. |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | Pain #1, also, have you changed feed?? Some horses can't handle the formulation of some feed products. |
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Location: U.S. | No I have not changed his feed he is on tribute kalm performer and has been for 2 yrs. He also gets coco soya and electrolytes.
They vet ex Rayed and ultrasounded his stifles. We also erased and injected his hocks (just sore there was no arthritis or anything on the ex ray)
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 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | Horses USUALLY don't just go from light, soft, and responsive to being jackwagons like what your talking about unless there is something wrong, such as pain. When you say you and your vet went over her what did you all do? How did they rule out pain??
I also agree with LMS that sometimes feed can be a precursor to naughty behavior. Just happened to me this Spring. Last fall I dealt with some ulcer issues so I completely changed his feed and got him looking quite beautiful. But it took my very nice, laid back boy and turned him into a fat, sassy, disrespectful, and reactive jerk face really quickly. I had to back off the feed and have been getting after this behavior with lots of ground work and he has come around. He was not bucking out like your horse, trying to run off or get crabby pants when I asked him to do something, but maybe this is how your individual horse likes to display naughty behavior.
If you rule out pain I would seek professional help before you get hurt. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| How long have you had him? How long how you been his sole rider? |
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Location: U.S. | I bought him off the track 3 years ago. I'm the only one who rides him. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| rockstarinboots - 2015-04-30 12:44 PM
I bought him off the track 3 years ago. I'm the only one who rides him.
Pain is probably your issue then. You will probably need 3rd and 4th opinions. Find a vet who takes finding out his problems personal, meaning he won't stop until he's helped you. I suggest a private practice lameness expert vet, you will pay more but it'll save you in doing things like an MRI or putting on a lameness locator like a university vet would probably haft to do to find the problem. Start with small less expensive things to try and treat and work your way up to more expensive things. Treat for ulcers, make sure the sheath area is good, check bleeding, teeth, locking stifles, kissing spine, have blood work pulled, ultrasound proximal spensories...these are the issues from what you explained that I would address first. I'll warn you that you are going to get into some money.
Everyone on here saying that if his behavior was normal then changed without you changing anything are exactly right... its most likely a pain issue.
On the off chance that he bullied you once and got away with it then figured out if he throws a fit you'll get scared and give him his way....well you are going to haft to teach him you can't be bullied.
Edited by astreakinchic 2015-04-30 11:55 AM
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | The first thing that came to mind was pain, but if not pain, then lots of time in the roundpen. And maybe 2-a-days, or at least standing tied all days saddled. A boot camp of sorts. Not hard work every time but maybe some round pen/groundwork in the morning, stand tied all day and then riding later that night. How often do you ride? I know a lot of people want to ride every day but often times but don't ride for a couple days and my horse comes back fresh and more willing to work next time around. It sounds like you trail ride but what if you try something entirely different like chasing cattle? Just to get his mind off of barrels. |
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Location: U.S. | We ride 5/6 days a week. Long trot 2-3 days a week. Arena work 2-3 days. (Moving feet correct, bending collecting, moving right sometimes cavaletti ect...) And one day a week barrel work. (Mostly slow. |
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 Expert
Posts: 5290
| I had a friend that had a horse that acted like this and never could find it. Vet told her to give BUTE for few days, then ride and see if he acted different. He was normal so she knew there was pain, just had to find it. I believe stifles. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| FLITASTIC - 2015-04-30 1:36 PM
I had a friend that had a horse that acted like this and never could find it. Vet told her to give BUTE for few days, then ride and see if he acted different. He was normal so she knew there was pain, just had to find it. I believe stifles.
^^^ I was just scared to say it on here! LOL I'll give bute/dex combo and if they go right in and work then you KNOW its pain somewhere. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 596
| You are not to far from Dr Honnas. I would haul him over there and tell him what he's doing. He will help you find and fix the problem. Call in advance |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | astreakinchic - 2015-04-30 1:44 PM FLITASTIC - 2015-04-30 1:36 PM I had a friend that had a horse that acted like this and never could find it. Vet told her to give BUTE for few days, then ride and see if he acted different. He was normal so she knew there was pain, just had to find it. I believe stifles. ^^^ I was just scared to say it on here! LOL I'll give bute/dex combo and if they go right in and work then you KNOW its pain somewhere.
exactly and usually hocks if it helps. also he gets worked all week? does he ever have a day to just have fun mentally they all need that to.. But my guess is pain still. how long ago was he injected and with whet and all the joints?
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 Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | It sure sounds like pain to me. The Bute idea is a good one. It's hard for vets to figure things out. Heck, human doctors can hardly figure out what's wrong and we can speak English! I really think it's pain. If you keep riding him, you could cause an ingrained behavior problem that continues after the pain is solved. Try the Bute. |
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Expert
Posts: 1586
Location: west of East Texas | My daughter's 6yo horse did this. After owning her for three years, she started acting totally out of character. Long story short, her saddle tree had warped. Duh, what a simple fix that could have saved a lot of time and expense. 3rd vet pulled the saddle down, turned it over and we saw it immediately. I felt like an idiot. Changed saddles, problem solved. Oh, if all my horse problems could be fixed that easily. I'd keep looking for pain somewhere. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2013
Location: Piedmont, OK | I would have another set of eyes, like a lameness vet check him out. It doesn't mean your vet is bad by any means but he could have missed something. I have a team of vets I count on to keep my horses going. But I have a mare that when her hocks are sore will do exactly what you described. And she is very stoic. The first time it happened one vet checked her hocks with a flex test and said she was fine just a mare attitude. It happened again another vet checked her she flex tested fine, took xrays still looked fine, he suggested lets Iinject her hocks. She used to be a reining horse and they are hard on the hocks. Low and behold he stuck the needle in and fluid started dripping out. After injecting her hocks the issue went away. It was just her way of letting me know something is wrong. Your horse is probably trying to tell you he has pain somewhere
Edited by soonergirl98 2015-05-01 6:46 AM
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | daisycake123 - 2015-04-30 6:08 AM
Check you horse for epm and or ulcers. Will cause the fits. My horse was doing this and has a slight case of epm.
This....had a friend that her mare started doing this. It was EPM. It's amazing how it can change their behavior from quiet and docile to downright dangerous. You also stated he tripped....another sign....I think vets are going to have to realize that EPM has turned into an epidemic and personally, I think we, as horse owners, are going to have to start maintaining it like we do with worming. The protozoa is everywhere and running rampant. Thanks to the EPA we no longer have any pesticides to kill it, and PETA has killed the fur trade, so no one traps possums any more, and they're everywhere. Sorry you're having to deal with this, but it certainly sounds like that's what it is. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| I would start with teeth. |
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Location: U.S. | Weird thing happen today we worked barrels and he was completely his old self... So I think even though my vet did think so I m gonna treat him for ulcers. Also side not I think Bute made it worse because I had him on Bute last weekend and he has his really big fit then...Also his teeth were done about 4 mo ago. I don't see any sings of EPM we did the tail test today and he really never trips... |
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 Thick and Wavy
Posts: 6102
Location: Nebraska | rockstarinboots - 2015-05-02 9:37 PM Weird thing happen today we worked barrels and he was completely his old self... So I think even though my vet did think so I m gonna treat him for ulcers. Also side not I think Bute made it worse because I had him on Bute last weekend and he has his really big fit then...Also his teeth were done about 4 mo ago. I don't see any sings of EPM we did the tail test today and he really never trips...
if he does have an ulcer, bute will really hurt his belly |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
Location: North of where I want to be | I am not sure where you are located but here in PA we have seen a very serious up tick in Lyme disease in horses & dogs. I ride a horse that has it & some of the symptoms are very similar to EPM. And many of the "behavior" issues are similar as well.
Just a thought. |
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I don't know what to do! Horse temper tantrums!!