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 Regular
Posts: 67
| Other then basic drills to correct the problem. What bits do you like to use in assisting shoulder pick up? |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
  
Location: Oklahoma | Bits won't stop shoulder dropping. Horses drop their shoulders because they're sore in the back end. Just my opinion. |
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| I like a bit that allows for some lift. On one horse that bit was a Myler Chain bit with a 3 inch shank. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| Mullen mouth gag. I agree with Diane but once a horse gets in a habit, even after you get the soreness figured out, it's hard to get them back out of it.
Edited by FlyingJT 2015-05-05 2:08 PM
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | I LOVE the carol goostree simplicity no curb strap (or you can use one) OR the carol goostree CG bit.
Both of these bits help break the poll and elevate the rib cage to make those horses "stand up" better. I really like the feel of these bits, my horses do too. |
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 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | I do think a good bit can help you teach a horse to stay up in front, as it helps provide clear communication to not drop when you lift, while your driving the hind end up and encouraging forward motion (which is key). I like the Pozzi long shank, two piece, smooth. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Fix all soundness problems and teach them not to drop their shoulder. Spurs help...rougher with your feet not with your hands... |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | astreakinchic - 2015-05-05 11:11 AM Fix all soundness problems and teach them not to drop their shoulder. Spurs help...rougher with your feet not with your hands...
I have to just put this out there, my horse that does this is even more aggressive in his turns after he's been injected...some horses just REALLY want to work and they can and then they do become sore, my horse has ALWAYS cowed a barrel, even when first starting....he still is drilled a certain way to try to "manipulate" his style and let me tell you, if you can learn to ride the style AND use the equipment that make both of you happy, you will have a winner.......he's injected annually and given pentosan monthly to maintain his hocks. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| LMS - 2015-05-05 1:05 PM
astreakinchic - 2015-05-05 11:11 AM Fix all soundness problems and teach them not to drop their shoulder. Spurs help...rougher with your feet not with your hands...
I have to just put this out there, my horse that does this is even more aggressive in his turns after he's been injected...some horses just REALLY want to work and they can and then they do become sore, my horse has ALWAYS cowed a barrel, even when first starting....he still is drilled a certain way to try to "manipulate" his style and let me tell you, if you can learn to ride the style AND use the equipment that make both of you happy, you will have a winner.......he's injected annually and given pentosan monthly to maintain his hocks.
Yupp I've had it happen but then I knew it was a training problem or a jockey error not a soundness problem.
Have you had someone try to "fix' him from dropping his shoulder or talk to anyone about why he drops? what do you do in your slow work?
It goes back to how they are trained too. If a horse is trained to cheat they will always have some cheat in them and your right your going to have to find a happy medium for you and them. Also, some horses you must ride "their" style or they won't clock.
Back 10 years ago I admit I trained mine to cheat because I didn't know any better. I went out and got help and it fixed my problems.
Edited by astreakinchic 2015-05-05 12:15 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 372
| 9 times our of ten someone will describe one as dropping a shoulder when in fact they are simply starting the turn to soon or diving in.
Stay 2 handed longer and most of your problems will be remedied
Disclaimer: I have not seen you or your horse just speaking in generality
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Regular
Posts: 98
| http://www.thetackstop.com/wassongoround.htm
i would use this bit or the stabilizer. also i would do a lot of reverse arcing on him at a trot. this will teach him to pick up his shoulder, work off his back end and keep forward momentum. you can do this away from the pattern and when it comes time to turn he should keep his shoulder up. |
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Regular
Posts: 67
| Its an older horse that I just aquired recently. I had all the maintenance done to get him feeling good again (hocks,teeth,ulcer & chiro'ed). When I say dropping his shoulder I mean he commits to his turn a hair quicker than he should/its hard to get him by a drum and hes a big dude. Two handed all the way in is helping and basic schooling is helping. I just wondered what bit would help me lift him if I am late in correcting the drop/early set. Or something I can school him in during the week with some lift to it.
Edited by Trippin 2015-05-05 12:19 PM
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | arion - 2015-05-05 12:10 PM 9 times our of ten someone will describe one as dropping a shoulder when in fact they are simply starting the turn to soon or diving in. Stay 2 handed longer and most of your problems will be remedied Disclaimer: I have not seen you or your horse just speaking in generality
And see the staying 2 hands longer, doesn't help....with mine. I need to finish my turn ride with my hand ahead and look to the fence. If I touch or attempt to correct him.....it's not as fast. Really the only drill I do is that I walk/trot him by to the fence. I think sometimes we forget that these animals really DO have a personality and when there is something they love to do, they are like a child and get a little carried away and aggressive. It's a fine line to know what to allow and what to just work with. This same horse is one that won't eat his feed if there is anything "extra" in it, he coughs in the spring before rain....BUT he will cut a cow or a barrel so amazingly smooth and athletic it makes your heart stop. I think I'm taking a little of his "aggressive" out of him, my daughter has been fast loping him through the last year or so and he finds it "fun" BUT I can tell when I go heel some steers with him that he's SOOO excited to be rode by a big person, he can hardly help himself.....I truly think the only way I stay in the saddle is because the suede is so sticky on my rope saddle....he is so fun to ride. My point is HE will do whatever you ask (my daughter can hold him at whatever speed she wants) but if you want to be super fast, you need to stay out of his way and find that magical combination you both can live with. I know I've made several runs that I've made dumb mistakes with him, because I think he's the type of horse that when finding the right combination of skills can be unbeatable. |
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Regular
Posts: 67
| He works his big booty off but my shins cant keep taking these knocks! (lol). And hes been turned out awhile so I've gone slow with his entry back into the work force. And I ride a push style horse so I feel like I will eventually get it together with some proper drills. Just getting a list of lifter bits to check out. |
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | I have always used a small twisted copper wrapped mouth Wonder Gag on my boy. I think I paid $40 for it new.
Haven't had any problems with him.
I ride him in a weighted 3" handmade snaffle at home.
I ride my mare in a D-Ring Snaffle with a copper roller my dad bought back in the 70s for $5 when working cows at home because I can get a little rough on her without meaning too.
I also ride her in a Wonder Gag when we rope. Her wonder gag is a medium twisted snaffle mouth without copper.
Never had a problem with either horse! 
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1074
| You could also try a combination bit. We bought the rope nose band, long shank with the dog bone mouth piece. My daughter is 5 years old, and her seasoned horses started dropping her shoulder at the 2nd barrel. We went to a Martha Josey combination bit and made a huge difference. She just needed a little more leverage to help her slow down and turn the barrel correctly rather than cheat. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| LMS - 2015-05-05 1:36 PM
arion - 2015-05-05 12:10 PM 9 times our of ten someone will describe one as dropping a shoulder when in fact they are simply starting the turn to soon or diving in. Stay 2 handed longer and most of your problems will be remedied Disclaimer: I have not seen you or your horse just speaking in generality
And see the staying 2 hands longer, doesn't help....with mine. I need to finish my turn ride with my hand ahead and look to the fence. If I touch or attempt to correct him.....it's not as fast. Really the only drill I do is that I walk/trot him by to the fence. I think sometimes we forget that these animals really DO have a personality and when there is something they love to do, they are like a child and get a little carried away and aggressive. It's a fine line to know what to allow and what to just work with. This same horse is one that won't eat his feed if there is anything "extra" in it, he coughs in the spring before rain....BUT he will cut a cow or a barrel so amazingly smooth and athletic it makes your heart stop. I think I'm taking a little of his "aggressive" out of him, my daughter has been fast loping him through the last year or so and he finds it "fun" BUT I can tell when I go heel some steers with him that he's SOOO excited to be rode by a big person, he can hardly help himself.....I truly think the only way I stay in the saddle is because the suede is so sticky on my rope saddle....he is so fun to ride. My point is HE will do whatever you ask (my daughter can hold him at whatever speed she wants) but if you want to be super fast, you need to stay out of his way and find that magical combination you both can live with. I know I've made several runs that I've made dumb mistakes with him, because I think he's the type of horse that when finding the right combination of skills can be unbeatable.
You make a good point some ppl need to realize.... a horse has a personality.
Some cannot clock making a controlled smooth pretty run...they haft to be half running off and feeling like they are in control.
I've had horses that I was able to fix from cheating and they would run a nice smooth clean pattern with me, but it wouldn't be that show wining time they are capable of running. Now if I wanna rare back and send them for their life after tuning on them some will still clock. Others your gonna haft to let them cheat a lil and ride them by it, but your still going to have to go back and tune them once you ran unless you wanna knock it outta the pen.
You can fix a cheating horse. It takes time, knowledge, patience, and usually some vet work. Some will always need tuned on to run a time though, you will never get all the cheat outta them.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 464
| Mullen mouth piece, will get the horse up a little. If he's done it a long time, it might be hard to correct. |
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 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6437
Location: Montana | arion - 2015-05-05 11:10 AM 9 times our of ten someone will describe one as dropping a shoulder when in fact they are simply starting the turn to soon or diving in. Stay 2 handed longer and most of your problems will be remedied Disclaimer: I have not seen you or your horse just speaking in generality I agree with this...my mare is that way, and she has some pretty cool turns. Get her shoulder past the barrel and be ready to hang on. You drop to one hand too soon and be ready to hit...usually with your leg. After a bruise or two, you learn quickly.  ut And with her, DEFINITELY look to the fence...look at the barrel, and you are going to cut it short, especially inside.
But a horse that "actually" shoulders the barrel is different. Basically they are just plowing into the barrel, and not using their shoulder/ leg to turn around it...JMO on what shouldering is.
Edited by mtcanchazer 2015-05-05 3:25 PM
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | Yay, I finally remembered the bit that someone suggested to me!
http://www.thetackstop.com/ccstabilizerbit.htm
The ONLY reason I didn't buy one is because my horse is so sensitive mouthed and HATES anything with less than 2 breaks in it. Might be something to try out. Also, get a set of shin guards...it's amazing the confidence you will have with them on when you don't have to worry about how bad it's going to hurt IF that horse hits a drum.
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Regular
Posts: 98
| now that i understand the problem a little better i use to ride a horse that did this and what i did at a trot and lope around the barrel is when he would go to drop his shoulder i would lift my arm straight up sometimes over my head and that seemed to solve the issue you will prob have to do this for a few weeks but hopefully it helps.( i rode him in an o-ring and split reins) |
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 Expert
Posts: 2258
| LMS - 2015-05-05 11:04 AM
I LOVE the carol goostree simplicity no curb strap (or you can use one) OR the carol goostree CG bit.
Both of these bits help break the poll and elevate the rib cage to make those horses "stand up" better. I really like the feel of these bits, my horses do too.
I have a 5yr old who started dropping in hard mostly because she was trying to work so hard but had to get a handle on it. She was in a snaffle or a cervi short shank but I put her in the Goostree simplicity and after a few days in in she stopped dropping in , now she is in the CG and loves it. She is pretty sensitive and picky about bits but loves these two. |
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Favorite bit for a shoulder dropping maniac