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 Extreme Veteran
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| What percent do you prefer for your performance horses eating just grass hay? I just feed a grass hay. Why I ask is I have a 5 yr old mare currently on 7 lbs it strategy healthy edge a day , which is 12.5 % protein , 8 % fat . She looks pretty good , every where but her flanks / hindquarters . She could stand a little more weight . She currently weighs 1,070 lbs & she was 1,100-1,130 last year . She needs to be right at 1100 lbs . Her hindquarters could stand to be fuller.. I don't like how her hindquarter is looking when she's a typical big built chicks beduino build . She's rode regularly & gets all the grass hay she'll eat . Should I find a feed with 14% protein? Thoughts ? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 464
| Really need to get a nutritional analysis of your hay, to make a good guess. I can get that done here, for &10. Don't know about your area. There is a huge difference in grass hay that was baled before maturity, and after. Many grass hays, baked past maturity, will test as low as wheat straw. I prefer a grass haY to alfalfa, but I want one with some feed value to it.
Personally, I hate to supplement a roughage with a concentrate. If I'm feeding a concentrate, it needs to be because im working my horse. I don't want to "have" to feed one because my hay is weak. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
 
| I feed a 14% feed and have for 40 years. My performance horses also get Platinum Performance. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| Anyone else ? |
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 Bulls Eye
Posts: 6443
Location: Oklahoma | I feed bluebonnet omega intensify force and it's 12% protein and 12% fat. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| TwistedK - 2015-05-18 9:48 AM
I feed bluebonnet omega intensify force and it's 12% protein and 12% fat.
I wish there was a blue bonnet dealer by me :( |
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Bulls Eye
Posts: 6443
Location: Oklahoma | Fancy Lass - 2015-05-18 9:53 AM
TwistedK - 2015-05-18 9:48 AM
I feed bluebonnet omega intensify force and it's 12% protein and 12% fat.
I wish there was a blue bonnet dealer by me : (
I just started mine on it. I also feed bermuda round bales. Mine get 4 pounds of BB and 3 pounds of alfalfa pellets. The mares and gelding get fed once a day, and my stallion is getting fed twice a day as he's dropped weight being breeding season. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 477
Location: Lost in the swamps | All mine are out 24/7 on ample pasture right now. But get 2lbs strategy gx, 1lb alfalfa pellets, 2x a day. lysine, probiotics, and flax.at night
The lysine and probiotics have really made them fill out, and stay heavy. I will prob be decreasing the lbs of strategy if they start getting too fat.
From the research I've done Strategy healthy edge is designed for easy keepers.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| It is suppose to be geared more towards easy keepers . I do like it better then the regular strategy though .. I've never had good luck with the regulsr . The healty edge has more fat but less calories than the strategy GX. I have equine senior in my barn as well .. Thinking I may give that a try & see if it'll fill her out the rest of the way . I just hate when they aren't looking to my standards lol |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 639
Location: God's country...aka TEXAS | You need more fat content, not protein. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| JLBerry - 2015-05-18 1:46 PM
You need more fat content, not protein.
It's 8 % fat . You think more fat would fill her hips in? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 639
Location: God's country...aka TEXAS | Fancy Lass - 2015-05-18 1:53 PM
JLBerry - 2015-05-18 1:46 PM
You need more fat content, not protein.
It's 8 % fat . You think more fat would fill her hips in?
Yes, I feed Renew Gold. It is 15% fat. Keeps all of mine looking great- from weanlings to seniors. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 477
Location: Lost in the swamps | Yup! Proteins are building blocks for muscle but fat fuels those muscles.
A big trainer in Oklahoma got me on to lysine! It helps with topline and bloom, check it out pure lysine at vita flex nutrition. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| Maybe I should try ultium ? I know my horses won't eat renew gold .. Way too picky . |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | Your nutritional content is more than sufficient. If your horse isn't thriving it's likely because she isn't utilizing what you are feeding her. A good quality probiotic/digestive supplement should get her on track. 8% Fat is more than enough to keep any horse fleshy
When we start throwing weight building, ulcer preventing, fat adding supplements to our horses feed it throws the whole formulation off and you could be causing more problems than you realize.
You can order Bluebonnet's Transform DSI from their website even if there isn't a dealer in your area. I posted a thread a couple of weeks ago showing some before and after photos of my horses since they've been on it. They were having problems much like you describe with yours. 30 days later they look completely different. |
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Regular
Posts: 94
| rachellyn80 - 2015-05-26 2:54 PM
Your nutritional content is more than sufficient. If your horse isn't thriving it's likely because she isn't utilizing what you are feeding her. A good quality probiotic/digestive supplement should get her on track. 8% Fat is more than enough to keep any horse fleshy
When we start throwing weight building, ulcer preventing, fat adding supplements to our horses feed it throws the whole formulation off and you could be causing more problems than you realize.
You can order Bluebonnet's Transform DSI from their website even if there isn't a dealer in your area. I posted a thread a couple of weeks ago showing some before and after photos of my horses since they've been on it. They were having problems much like you describe with yours. 30 days later they look completely different.
How much did that cost to get it shipped? |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | barrelracing? - 2015-05-26 3:57 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-05-26 2:54 PM Your nutritional content is more than sufficient. If your horse isn't thriving it's likely because she isn't utilizing what you are feeding her. A good quality probiotic/digestive supplement should get her on track. 8% Fat is more than enough to keep any horse fleshy
When we start throwing weight building, ulcer preventing, fat adding supplements to our horses feed it throws the whole formulation off and you could be causing more problems than you realize.
You can order Bluebonnet's Transform DSI from their website even if there isn't a dealer in your area. I posted a thread a couple of weeks ago showing some before and after photos of my horses since they've been on it. They were having problems much like you describe with yours. 30 days later they look completely different. How much did that cost to get it shipped?
I have it locally, so I'm not sure what they charge to ship. Knowing how well it worked for mine I would pay a little extra to get it. You don't have to keep them on it longterm. It's more of a recovery product for when their digestive system needs a boost to get back on track. |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | Fancy Lass - 2015-05-18 2:37 PM Maybe I should try ultium ? I know my horses won't eat renew gold .. Way too picky .
you could try the amplify by purina. it's like 30% fat and you only need to feed 1lb per day |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | I feed safe choice which is a 14/6 feed. I don't add any fat but i wouldn't mind having a higher fat ration. I also feed grass hay and they get pasture. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| She looks really good , I just think her hips are a bit sunk in .. I don't like it , but it could just be her I guess . I'm just not sure what to feed her for the best results . She doesn't look bad by any means! |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | JLBerry - 2015-05-18 11:55 AM Fancy Lass - 2015-05-18 1:53 PM JLBerry - 2015-05-18 1:46 PM You need more fat content, not protein. It's 8 % fat . You think more fat would fill her hips in? Yes, I feed Renew Gold. It is 15% fat. Keeps all of mine looking great- from weanlings to seniors.
Ditto. Mine put on a good 100 lbs from Dec to now. He was so poor when I started him on it. Now he blooms. I'm feeding alfalfa, Bermuda and 1/2 pound RG. |
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Location: NE Texas | casualdust07 - 2015-05-26 4:36 PM
I feed safe choice which is a 14/6 feed. I don't add any fat but i wouldn't mind having a higher fat ration. I also feed grass hay and they get pasture.
I also feed safe choice, but I use the perform. It's 14 proten & 9% fat (she loves it!) mixed with alfalfa cubes - I'm currently also adding some corn oil as mine had lost weight at the last boarding facility (she walked the stall constantly and when out was bullied by a mean gelding). I really like it but have heard great things about Blue Bonnet Feeds on here - may try that eventually if safe choice perform doesn't get her there in another month or two.
Edited by reese_tx 2015-05-27 9:29 AM
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | If all of this added fat is necessary, how do horses stay fat on alfalfa only diets? There is not a single fat source found in my pasture that is 6%+
Think about these things when you are choosing a nutrition plan for your horses. If you are constantly having to increase the amount of feed and add fat supplements, then you have a BIG problem. I have been through all of this and tried all of these things and have learned....Your horse is not digesting what you are giving them properly. Get the gut healthy and NONE of these extras are necessary. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| rachellyn80 - 2015-05-27 9:59 AM If all of this added fat is necessary, how do horses stay fat on alfalfa only diets? There is not a single fat source found in my pasture that is 6%+
Think about these things when you are choosing a nutrition plan for your horses. If you are constantly having to increase the amount of feed and add fat supplements, then you have a BIG problem. I have been through all of this and tried all of these things and have learned....Your horse is not digesting what you are giving them properly. Get the gut healthy and NONE of these extras are necessary.
THIS ^^^
I would also evaluate the forage you're feeding before adding/changing the concentrates (grains) you are feeding. The horse gut is made to thrive on forage, too much grain will acidify your gut and kill the needed bacteria that actually digest what you're feeding.
Horses are hind gut ferementors, their stomachs complete very basic digestion. Their HUGE intestines are where the fermenting/digestion/and absorbtion happen.
Change your forage to better and watch the horse bloom. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| lindseylou2290 - 2015-05-27 10:19 AM
rachellyn80 - 2015-05-27 9:59 AM If all of this added fat is necessary, how do horses stay fat on alfalfa only diets? There is not a single fat source found in my pasture that is 6%+
Think about these things when you are choosing a nutrition plan for your horses. If you are constantly having to increase the amount of feed and add fat supplements, then you have a BIG problem. I have been through all of this and tried all of these things and have learned....Your horse is not digesting what you are giving them properly. Get the gut healthy and NONE of these extras are necessary.
THIS ^^^
I would also evaluate the forage you're feeding before adding/changing the concentrates (grains) you are feeding. The horse gut is made to thrive on forage, too much grain will acidify your gut and kill the needed bacteria that actually digest what you're feeding.
Horses are hind gut ferementors, their stomachs complete very basic digestion. Their HUGE intestines are where the fermenting/digestion/and absorbtion happen.
Change your forage to better and watch the horse bloom.
I am going to put them on FORCO . See if that helps :) |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | Fancy Lass - 2015-05-27 10:33 AM
lindseylou2290 - 2015-05-27 10:19 AM
rachellyn80 - 2015-05-27 9:59 AM If all of this added fat is necessary, how do horses stay fat on alfalfa only diets? There is not a single fat source found in my pasture that is 6%+
Think about these things when you are choosing a nutrition plan for your horses. If you are constantly having to increase the amount of feed and add fat supplements, then you have a BIG problem. I have been through all of this and tried all of these things and have learned....Your horse is not digesting what you are giving them properly. Get the gut healthy and NONE of these extras are necessary.
THIS ^^^
I would also evaluate the forage you're feeding before adding/changing the concentrates (grains) you are feeding. The horse gut is made to thrive on forage, too much grain will acidify your gut and kill the needed bacteria that actually digest what you're feeding.
Horses are hind gut ferementors, their stomachs complete very basic digestion. Their HUGE intestines are where the fermenting/digestion/and absorbtion happen.
Change your forage to better and watch the horse bloom.
I am going to put them on FORCO . See if that helps : )
Don't mistake percent of fat, or lack thereof, in your pasture or hay for the fat contribution to the entire diet that it provides. Saying there is not a 6% fat source in your pasture is true. But, many roughages contain around 1.5% natural vegetable fats. That is 6.8 grams per pound of roughage that they eat. If they eat twenty pounds of roughage per day, that is 136 grams of fat from their hay alone. An added feed that is 15% fat contributes 68 grams of fat per pound fed. Higher fat feeds are used at pretty low feed rates, so if you feed a total of two pounds of it per day, that just about equals the amount of fat that they are getting from the roughage. Vegetable fat, as you can see is a very natural energy source for horses. Most people do not realize how much natural fat horses get from roughage. Their body easily processes it in its natural form without disruption to the rest of the digestive system as long as you do not add too much. This is not the case for grain based feeds that have a significantly higher level of NSC. The starch and sugars found in these feeds are not natural at the total contribution levels they provide. As a result, they exceed the digestive systems ability to break them down when fed at the rate that most feed companies tell you to add to your horses diet. Feeding too much of these concentrates disrupts overall feed efficiency resulting in poor digestion of the roughage. If you need more digestible energy than you are getting from the roughage alone, supplying that with higher fat feeds simply fits the digestive system better as long as it is fed in amounts that properly fit the digestive system. |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | winwillows - 2015-05-27 1:05 PM Fancy Lass - 2015-05-27 10:33 AM lindseylou2290 - 2015-05-27 10:19 AM rachellyn80 - 2015-05-27 9:59 AM If all of this added fat is necessary, how do horses stay fat on alfalfa only diets? There is not a single fat source found in my pasture that is 6%+
Think about these things when you are choosing a nutrition plan for your horses. If you are constantly having to increase the amount of feed and add fat supplements, then you have a BIG problem. I have been through all of this and tried all of these things and have learned....Your horse is not digesting what you are giving them properly. Get the gut healthy and NONE of these extras are necessary. THIS ^^^
I would also evaluate the forage you're feeding before adding/changing the concentrates (grains) you are feeding. The horse gut is made to thrive on forage, too much grain will acidify your gut and kill the needed bacteria that actually digest what you're feeding.
Horses are hind gut ferementors, their stomachs complete very basic digestion. Their HUGE intestines are where the fermenting/digestion/and absorbtion happen.
Change your forage to better and watch the horse bloom. I am going to put them on FORCO . See if that helps : ) Don't mistake percent of fat, or lack thereof, in your pasture or hay for the fat contribution to the entire diet that it provides. Saying there is not a 6% fat source in your pasture is true. But, many roughages contain around 1.5% natural vegetable fats. That is 6.8 grams per pound of roughage that they eat. If they eat twenty pounds of roughage per day, that is 136 grams of fat from their hay alone. An added feed that is 15% fat contributes 68 grams of fat per pound fed. Higher fat feeds are used at pretty low feed rates, so if you feed a total of two pounds of it per day, that just about equals the amount of fat that they are getting from the roughage. Vegetable fat, as you can see is a very natural energy source for horses. Most people do not realize how much natural fat horses get from roughage. Their body easily processes it in its natural form without disruption to the rest of the digestive system as long as you do not add too much. This is not the case for grain based feeds that have a significantly higher level of NSC. The starch and sugars found in these feeds are not natural at the total contribution levels they provide. As a result, they exceed the digestive systems ability to break them down when fed at the rate that most feed companies tell you to add to your horses diet. Feeding too much of these concentrates disrupts overall feed efficiency resulting in poor digestion of the roughage. If you need more digestible energy than you are getting from the roughage alone, supplying that with higher fat feeds simply fits the digestive system better as long as it is fed in amounts that properly fit the digestive system.
Win, I totally understand that. What I'm seeing is that people are feeding large amounts of high fat feeds with little to no result....This tells me that the horses digestive system is unable to process the nutrients that they are being given. You can feed them all you want....They're never going to gain. We will continue to add fat sources, add ulcer preventatives, add random supplements, and muscle builders....and the horses will still look rough.
It's time to go back to the basics. Get the gut healthy and feed them a natural diet.
The concentrated feeds on the market today are made with profits in mind from byproducts and packaged to make people think that they are doing the right thing for their horses. When you look a little deeper you find that your horses have inflammation throughout their bodies and most of the lameness, soreness, and attitude issues that you've been fighting have everything to do with what you're feeding them. I don't think that most people know how good their horses can look and feel....AND it doesn't have to cost them a fortune. |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | Anyone who has been to a nutrition clinic of mine hears me say that we feed horses into trouble, and then try to supplement them out of it. Efficient hind gut function is the basic goal every horse owner should strive for. Added energy beyond that should be in the least disruptive form that we can provide. Once that is done, it is amazing how little additional nutritional support the miracle that is the digestive system of the horse needs. |
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Crude protein in feed