|
|
 A Gopher's Worst Nightmare
Posts: 5094
 
Location: Southern Oregon | Earlier last week I posted about thinking my gelding had High and Low ring bone on REAR leg. Well he does have high ringbone, but he is super lame. After x-rays the vet discovered at strange amount of bone interference/growth going up his pastern. He was a little dumbfounded by this, so he sent off the x-rays to the head of OSU (oregon state university) veterinarian medicine who is a good friend of his to see what he thinks. He is thinking that the bone growth up the pastern is interfering with his tendons and ligaments which is causing his extreme discomfort. I am going to try and post the x rays, the pictures are off my phone so not the best until they email me the originals.
Edited by cowgirl_3207 2015-05-22 10:46 PM
 (littleman2.jpg)
 (littleman4.jpg)
 (littleman5.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
 littleman2.jpg (42KB - 241 downloads)
littleman4.jpg (26KB - 172 downloads)
littleman5.jpg (38KB - 171 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
 
Location: PNW | Who is your vet? Pm me. I'm in Oregon and have a gelding with HIGH ringbone. |
|
| |
|
The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | I added you on FB, we have a ton of mutual friends - crazy we've never met! |
|
| |
|
A Gopher's Worst Nightmare
Posts: 5094
Location: Southern Oregon | svincent - 2015-05-22 3:18 PM
I added you on FB, we have a ton of mutual friends - crazy we've never met!
LOL, I have been Out of the game for a while! LIFE and kids. ;) |
|
| |
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I would like to see the other views
What type of xray, as I have learned not all X-rays produce the same pictures.
It also depends on how much radiation they use.
Wondering if there are some bone chips floating around the pastern, but it could be the quality of the picture |
|
| |
|
A Gopher's Worst Nightmare
Posts: 5094
Location: Southern Oregon | The quality is bad. I took it with my phone from the computer. They are emailing me the better ones and then I will post them as well. He said they aren't chips, but what they look like is "new" bone growth. |
|
| |
|
A Gopher's Worst Nightmare
Posts: 5094
Location: Southern Oregon | I will try to post another view
 (littleman3.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
littleman3.jpg (50KB - 167 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| What did the vet say about his heels, to me they look low causing extra tension on his joints.
Has the horse had any swelling in the pastern, any trauma? |
|
| |
|
A Gopher's Worst Nightmare
Posts: 5094
Location: Southern Oregon | cheryl makofka - 2015-05-22 4:27 PM
What did the vet say about his heels, to me they look low causing extra tension on his joints.
Has the horse had any swelling in the pastern, any trauma?
Nothing was said about his heels. I got him as three year old. He had been through some pretty rough cowboy style trainers due to his POOR attitude. He was a basket case that wanted to kill everyone and thing. I put my heart and sole into this guy. He has ALWAYS had a little lump on his pastern. Looked like he banged it on something. It sits in the middle of the front of it. Even back then he would ever so often drop his one hip like he stepped on a rock and was ouchie. I have spent THOUSANDS on Chiropractors. Well here recently(three weeks or so ago) I noticed he was limping alot and having a hard time with that one hind leg. I started buting and soaking him and one other horse thinking it was an abscess. The other horses blew, his still didn't get better even on bute he was lame. Then I noticed alot of bony growth protruding from his cornet band. The area is super sore ect. stretches in the front of the leg on the cornet band stretching 3/4 of the way around. It is also sore to pressure. We think this is something that has been occurring for YEARS and we just didn't notice it and spent our time trying to "fix" other areas that seemed more noticeable. This gelding is out of a band up barrel horse mare and running bred QH stallion. We all had HIGH hopes for him, but he just never could do it. Turning was not his thing, and I think this is why as well. I called it quits on him as a barrel horse and then he became the Family babysitter and I started heading off of him here and there, the kids LOVE him. He is 100% trust worthy with kids, pregnant ME, and people who have never ridden. He is an honest guy. We are thinking he was injured as a youngen in training. Several of us had seen him flip over as a two year old with trainers ect, he was a dirty gelding to start out with. If you notice in the picture his pastern is actually offset off of the hoof pastern axis line. His other hind leg is fine and correct. This gelding is about 15-17 years old 16.3 hands tall and built like a TANK. |
|
| |
|
A Gopher's Worst Nightmare
Posts: 5094
Location: Southern Oregon | Here are some more.
 (000000000000000000000a.jpg)
 (00000000000a.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
000000000000000000000a.jpg (64KB - 172 downloads)
00000000000a.jpg (86KB - 167 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Thanks for the history.
Due to his age, it sounds like you would be trying to get him comfortable.
I would ultrasound the tendon to see if there is any tendon damage.
After Osu looked at the X-rays I would want to speak to them directly and see what there plan of treatment would be and prognosis.
Since those spots if I am looking in the proper spot are lighter, I would be asking if they are calcified.
The reason being if they are not, then tildren would be an option. I had a mare with a bone spur due to a cut that wasn't treated properly before I got her. Since it wasn't calcified, we did tildren and the body re absorbed it, a few months later no evidence of a spur on the xray.
If the tendon is not damaged, I would be speaking to the vets about injecting a form of snake venom into the nerves in the area. I can't think of the name of the drug. Anyway it blocks the pain receptors but the horse can still feel pressure. It only lasts around 3 months |
|
| |
|
A Gopher's Worst Nightmare
Posts: 5094
Location: Southern Oregon | cheryl makofka - 2015-05-22 5:07 PM
Thanks for the history.
Due to his age, it sounds like you would be trying to get him comfortable.
I would ultrasound the tendon to see if there is any tendon damage.
After Osu looked at the X-rays I would want to speak to them directly and see what there plan of treatment would be and prognosis.
Since those spots if I am looking in the proper spot are lighter, I would be asking if they are calcified.
The reason being if they are not, then tildren would be an option. I had a mare with a bone spur due to a cut that wasn't treated properly before I got her. Since it wasn't calcified, we did tildren and the body re absorbed it, a few months later no evidence of a spur on the xray.
If the tendon is not damaged, I would be speaking to the vets about injecting a form of snake venom into the nerves in the area. I can't think of the name of the drug. Anyway it blocks the pain receptors but the horse can still feel pressure. It only lasts around 3 months
So far he has mentioned the BLOCK, similar to what they do with navicular horses. He has also mentioned a pretty crude sounding surgery that involves routering out the cartilage so that joint will fuse faster. Sounds like a ROUGH and painful recovery. We are waiting to here back from OSU before making ANY decisions on treatment. Right now we are doing what we can for pain management. We will only do what is best for this BIG guy. I don't plan on keeping him in pain if we can't come to a manageable solution. |
|
| |
|
A Gopher's Worst Nightmare
Posts: 5094
Location: Southern Oregon | Thank you for all the info and help! I really do appreciate it. |
|
| |
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| cowgirl_3207 - 2015-05-22 7:33 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-05-22 5:07 PM
Thanks for the history.
Due to his age, it sounds like you would be trying to get him comfortable.
I would ultrasound the tendon to see if there is any tendon damage.
After Osu looked at the X-rays I would want to speak to them directly and see what there plan of treatment would be and prognosis.
Since those spots if I am looking in the proper spot are lighter, I would be asking if they are calcified.
The reason being if they are not, then tildren would be an option. I had a mare with a bone spur due to a cut that wasn't treated properly before I got her. Since it wasn't calcified, we did tildren and the body re absorbed it, a few months later no evidence of a spur on the xray.
If the tendon is not damaged, I would be speaking to the vets about injecting a form of snake venom into the nerves in the area. I can't think of the name of the drug. Anyway it blocks the pain receptors but the horse can still feel pressure. It only lasts around 3 months
So far he has mentioned the BLOCK, similar to what they do with navicular horses. He has also mentioned a pretty crude sounding surgery that involves routering out the cartilage so that joint will fuse faster. Sounds like a ROUGH and painful recovery. We are waiting to here back from OSU before making ANY decisions on treatment. Right now we are doing what we can for pain management. We will only do what is best for this BIG guy. I don't plan on keeping him in pain if we can't come to a manageable solution.
The fusing he is speaking of is the dremmel bit
You can also do surgical laser fusion, recovery time is quick, it burns the nerve endings so after surgery they are pain free. It is costly for hocks it ranges anywhere from 2500-5000.
Good luck if you need to bounce ideas off of someone you can message me.
|
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 477
Location: Lost in the swamps | Wow, yeah very oddly shaped p2, a lot of bone remodeling.
You said he also does have low ringbone as well? I can see a little something on the top of the coffin, but Hard to tell between p2 and coffin bone with these x rays. Fusing it would stableize that part if the joint and help with pain.
Edited by imturnin3 2015-05-22 10:47 PM
|
|
| |
|
A Gopher's Worst Nightmare
Posts: 5094
Location: Southern Oregon | He actually only has high. I have been up since a little before 4 am trying to get him to the vet so I am a little sleep deprived! |
|
| |
|
 Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| Not to steal your thread.... it's completely ironic I logged in and saw this! My 4 yr old is "suspected " to have ringbone.. I plan on getting x rays to find out exactly what's going on. While at the trainer his vet looked at him and made that diagnosis. . He's short strided but has never taken a lame step..super SUPER nice colt and absolutely stunning to look at. This just breaks my heart. My sister in law decided to give him a try because she was just wanting something to ride around on a few times a week but called me last night saying she changed her mind because he's too young. I know I need x rays to come up with a game plan but what kind of treatments are there for something like that? I have shoes on him now but soon as I get him back to me I'm going to have my farrier here put new shoes on him. I've got a really great farrier here that specializes in "problem" feet. And also what causes ringbone? I've been trying to get as much info as I can on this. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 477
Location: Lost in the swamps | High ringbone is more favorable than low. High you can fuse the joint and stabilize it since
it is a low motion joint and they can return to soundness a great deal. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 477
Location: Lost in the swamps | want2chase3 - 2015-05-23 7:00 AM
Not to steal your thread.... it's completely ironic I logged in and saw this! My 4 yr old is "suspected " to have ringbone.. I plan on getting x rays to find out exactly what's going on. While at the trainer his vet looked at him and made that diagnosis. . He's short strided but has never taken a lame step..super SUPER nice colt and absolutely stunning to look at. This just breaks my heart. My sister in law decided to give him a try because she was just wanting something to ride around on a few times a week but called me last night saying she changed her mind because he's too young. I know I need x rays to come up with a game plan but what kind of treatments are there for something like that? I have shoes on him now but soon as I get him back to me I'm going to have my farrier here put new shoes on him. I've got a really great farrier here that specializes in "problem" feet. And also what causes ringbone? I've been trying to get as much info as I can on this.
Depends on which joint is affected.
Ringbone is osteoarthritis that has developed,it's usually caused by trauma,poor conformation, wear and tear, poor shoeing practices.
there is non articulating (not near the joint space) and articulating(involving te joint space)
Non articulating most of the time does no cause Any Ill issues, articulating however is not good. You can not cure it but you can slow the progression and manage it. I have and older gelding with high non articulating ringbone and the VERY start of low in the top of the coffin bone,(he has a small bone spur at the very top), vet says we cought it very early and with proper management he can continue to be ridden. vet suggested injecting the coffin joint, and get him on adequan. Also to get with my farrier ( new farrier since the old one is prob what caused it long toe,low heels) new farrier is amazing and is very knowledgable about this type of issue. He rolled his toes for a quicker breakover which will ease the tork on the joint.
A four year old I would be worried about longevity and what you will be using him for. Osteoarthritis at that age throws up red flags. My friend had a mare that was 4 and had degenerative joint disease in all 4 of her pasterns, university vets said she can no longe be a performance horse. Only light riding and pasture ornament .sorry to hear this :( but yes get x rays and know what you dealing with and get a game plan!
Edited by imturnin3 2015-05-23 9:18 AM
|
|
| |
|
Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| imturnin3 - 2015-05-23 9:13 AM
want2chase3 - 2015-05-23 7:00 AM
Not to steal your thread.... it's completely ironic I logged in and saw this! My 4 yr old is "suspected " to have ringbone.. I plan on getting x rays to find out exactly what's going on. While at the trainer his vet looked at him and made that diagnosis. . He's short strided but has never taken a lame step..super SUPER nice colt and absolutely stunning to look at. This just breaks my heart. My sister in law decided to give him a try because she was just wanting something to ride around on a few times a week but called me last night saying she changed her mind because he's too young. I know I need x rays to come up with a game plan but what kind of treatments are there for something like that? I have shoes on him now but soon as I get him back to me I'm going to have my farrier here put new shoes on him. I've got a really great farrier here that specializes in "problem" feet. And also what causes ringbone? I've been trying to get as much info as I can on this.
Depends on which joint is affected.
Ringbone is osteoarthritis that has developed,it's usually caused by trauma,poor conformation, wear and tear, poor shoeing practices.
there is non articulating (not near the joint space ) and articulating (involving te joint space )
Non articulating most of the time does no cause Any Ill issues, articulating however is not good. You can not cure it but you can slow the progression and manage it. I have and older gelding with high non articulating ringbone and the VERY start of low in the top of the coffin bone, (he has a small bone spur at the very top ), vet says we cought it very early and with proper management he can continue to be ridden. vet suggested injecting the coffin joint, and get him on adequan. Also to get with my farrier ( new farrier since the old one is prob what caused it long toe,low heels ) new farrier is amazing and is very knowledgable about this type of issue. He rolled his toes for a quicker breakover which will ease the tork on the joint.
A four year old I would be worried about longevity and what you will be using him for. Osteoarthritis at that age throws up red flags. My friend had a mare that was 4 and had degenerative joint disease in all 4 of her pasterns, university vets said she can no longe be a performance horse. Only light riding and pasture ornament .sorry to hear this : ( but yes get x rays and know what you dealing with and get a game plan!
Thank you very much. Yeah hearing that from our trainer a week ago was a huge punch in the gut. We had high hopes for this horse. I was really hoping my sister in law was going to take him. I'm going to get him next weekend and bring him home and off to the vet. |
|
| |
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| To add poor nutrition can also cause arthritis, prolonged inflammation, cuts/wounds that are deep enough to expose bone or joints.
Keeping the inflammation out of the joint is key, injections I have one with osteoarthritis in pastern and coffin (my vet doesn't use the term ringbone) he was diagnosed when he was 6, with HA injections and trimethsinalone no other steroids he was retired as a competitive horse at 15 pulled out of the pasture at 18 for a girl to high school rodeo, he placed in all but 2 days back in the retirement pen at 23 and now he is noticeably stiff in the morning.
I used legend iv, near the age of 15 this was given monthly, adequan the loading dose and monthly, and near the age of 15 he got glucosamine iv weekly.
As soon as my guy started getting wind puffs he got glucosamine iv and it reduced the inflammation so his legs looked clean and tight |
|
| |
|
Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| I believe this horse was started extremely early and rode pretty hard .. just knowing who I got him from. Was a really stupid impulse purchase. He was going to be my step daughters roping horse. |
|
| |
|
A Gopher's Worst Nightmare
Posts: 5094
Location: Southern Oregon | Bumping this up for the weekday crowd. We should hear back from OSU by Thursday on the up ward bone activity on the pastern. Still baffled even after having a few of my good friends who are vets look the x-rays over. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 36
| I had a mare with about the same x Rays. Kept her sound to run for a few years and lived out her days in the pasture just fine until I lost her having a baby. Also had a gelding that had a bunch of calcification and bony changes that caused disruption to the ligaments that ran down to the foot. He was harder to manage but ran him for 2 years like that. He was much better working then sitting out in a pasture. |
|
| |