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| Looking for ideas and exercises that will help with getting left behind. I tried searching for answers and couldn't find what I was looking for.
My horse is running harder than she ever has and I'm struggling to stay up in between barrels. We made our first run back last weekend and she did really well, but because I was a hindrance getting left behind, we lost the "horse race".
Would love advice from those who have struggled with the same issue.
I'll see if I can upload a video. Maybe that'll help a bit. In the meantime, please help! Going to haul out this evening and try to brainstorm ways to not sit on my rear. |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
 
Location: North Dakota | Without seeing a video first, I guess I would say to hold onto your saddle horn longer when you leave the barrel, to help you stay out of your horse's way. |
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Location: Winging It in KY | Core strength will really help this issue. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 629
| My mare was leaving me behind around her 2nd and 3rd barrels. She just eats them up, and she is short, and doesn't slow down much, and it has been YEARS of me trying to get with her. I did 3 things that I think have really helped me. Some or none of these may pertain to you, but maybe you can find something to help.
1 - I practiced the pattern going slow a few times where I went into the barrel sitting down, and on the backside of the barrel, I stood up and leaned forward, practicing using the horn to hold myself forward.
2 - I got a new saddle. My new saddle has a higher cantle and horn, so IF I get out of sync, it can only throw me back so far, and the taller, narrower horn is easier to grip and twist my hand around, when changing from going into the turn, to holding myself more forward leaving the barrel.
3 - I lost weight. I still am in the process of loosing some more weight, but since I've lost almost 15 lbs, I have found it easier for me to sit better, and hold myself up better. In the process of loosing weight, the exercising was building my core strength, I long trot in the 2 point position to build leg and core strength, which I think has helped a great deal with my ability to adjust my position in a run. |
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Veteran
Posts: 138
| Losing weight has been an ongoing struggle for me. I'm a work in progress, but have been trying to incorporate daily core exercises to help.
I'm trying to get the video on youtube... but not so successfully. I'll share the facebook link and hopefully in can be seen. My phone won't load onto youtube for whatever reason.
I am riding in a BM, so when I pull myself forward, the horn comes back to me some. So I can't rely on it too much for keeping me forward and out of her way. I'm just trying like heck to think of ways to get up and stay up!
https://www.facebook.com/100005410486004/videos/vob.100005410486004/... |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
 
Location: Texas | It starts leaving the barrel. When I slow work, i consciously sit deep on the backside of the barrel, pull up on the horn, shift weight to outside stirrup, and in one motion around the backside i'm up and forward. You have to be sure to not confuse it with getting top heavy and having your chest/rib cage forward breaking at your core- you do not want that.
let me see if I can find some pictures. Anyway, I do that all the time- at a walk, trot, lope, run, etc.
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Veteran
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| casualdust07 - 2015-06-11 9:54 AM
It starts leaving the barrel. When I slow work, i consciously sit deep on the backside of the barrel, pull up on the horn, shift weight to outside stirrup, and in one motion around the backside i'm up and forward. You have to be sure to not confuse it with getting top heavy and having your chest/rib cage forward breaking at your core- you do not want that.
let me see if I can find some pictures. Anyway, I do that all the time- at a walk, trot, lope, run, etc.
Thank you! Would love some photos or video! |
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Veteran
Posts: 138
| Those are great! I can see what you mean. |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | CallMeSkidmark - 2015-06-11 9:58 AM
casualdust07 - 2015-06-11 9:54 AM
It starts leaving the barrel. When I slow work, i consciously sit deep on the backside of the barrel, pull up on the horn, shift weight to outside stirrup, and in one motion around the backside i'm up and forward. You have to be sure to not confuse it with getting top heavy and having your chest/rib cage forward breaking at your core- you do not want that.
let me see if I can find some pictures. Anyway, I do that all the time- at a walk, trot, lope, run, etc.
Thank you! Would love some photos or video!
you know what, I bet I can find video. My mom videos my exhibitions a lot so I bet I have some. |
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Veteran
Posts: 138
| casualdust07 - 2015-06-11 10:12 AM
CallMeSkidmark - 2015-06-11 9:58 AM
casualdust07 - 2015-06-11 9:54 AM
It starts leaving the barrel. When I slow work, i consciously sit deep on the backside of the barrel, pull up on the horn, shift weight to outside stirrup, and in one motion around the backside i'm up and forward. You have to be sure to not confuse it with getting top heavy and having your chest/rib cage forward breaking at your core- you do not want that.
let me see if I can find some pictures. Anyway, I do that all the time- at a walk, trot, lope, run, etc.
Thank you! Would love some photos or video!
you know what, I bet I can find video. My mom videos my exhibitions a lot so I bet I have some.
That would be wonderful. Incorporating something like this into our slow work would be perfect. |
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Heart of Texas | Seeing as how your a very petite girl. Sounds like you may just have to get stronger. And a saddle with stirrups that actually position you more forward might work better for you. Kinda like a double j. Start lifting some weights for sure though. Most of us have to lose weight. I'd love to have your problem LOL |
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Location: South | I watched your video and we are built very much alike. What I have found that helped me alot was Yoga and Pilates workout. Sounds silly I know. But like you, I struggled seemed like overnight with keeping my balance and I would get behind or sometimes just ride like a monkey.  . Once I started working out I was much better, and I could tell my core strength was so much stronger. I also lost about 40 lbs total, which made a huge difference in my seat. I also recommend repetitive muscle memory exercises that way your body learns what to do and you don't' have to think about what you are doing. I would workout then head to the practice pen and walk to the first barrel and sit down, grab my horn, then push my horse (not literally) but get my body up for us to head to the second and so on. I also found that really sitting deep when we take off in the alley helped so much.
It is not something you will fix overnight, it's something that will take time. But you will notice a difference I promise. |
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Veteran
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| jewishprincess - 2015-06-11 10:39 AM
Seeing as how your a very petite girl. Sounds like you may just have to get stronger. And a saddle with stirrups that actually position you more forward might work better for you. Kinda like a double j. Start lifting some weights for sure though. Most of us have to lose weight. I'd love to have your problem LOL
I need to print this out! lol You think I'm petite!? <3
I'm really not... Im a biggun. I've tried several types of saddles, but the BM is the only one that fits my horse and feels phenomenal around a turn. I really want to learn how to ride in it as I've seen such a big difference with my horse since starting in it. It doesn't help that I'm not used to riding a push style horse. I've always done better on a horse that is out in front of me because I never really had to get up in the saddle. Now with her, especially running harder and turning harder, I need to quit being a dummy strapped on for the ride. lol
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| trobertson - 2015-06-11 10:51 AM
I watched your video and we are built very much alike. What I have found that helped me alot was Yoga and Pilates workout. Sounds silly I know. But like you, I struggled seemed like overnight with keeping my balance and I would get behind or sometimes just ride like a monkey. . Once I started working out I was much better, and I could tell my core strength was so much stronger. I also lost about 40 lbs total, which made a huge difference in my seat. I also recommend repetitive muscle memory exercises that way your body learns what to do and you don't' have to think about what you are doing. I would workout then head to the practice pen and walk to the first barrel and sit down, grab my horn, then push my horse (not literally ) but get my body up for us to head to the second and so on. I also found that really sitting deep when we take off in the alley helped so much.
It is not something you will fix overnight, it's something that will take time. But you will notice a difference I promise.
I used to do yoga a lot and noticed a big difference in my core strength while riding as well. I'll start back up and see if that helps me.
I realize there are no quick fixes for this... which is why I'm just looking for exercises that I can do in slow work. I don't like to run my horses much and certainly don't want to run the hair off of them while I'm trying to work on my own issues. So getting some that I can incorporate in slow work is absolutely perfect! |
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 A Gopher's Worst Nightmare
Posts: 5094
Location: Southern Oregon | After watching your run, I think it is a saddle issue. I too had a power house of a mare that always left super hard. I rode her in a Kelly K saddle, I think circle y made it. It seemed to help her "stay " with her. I was a lot thinner back then, I am pretty sure if she was still alive she would leave me in the dust now days |
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Veteran
Posts: 160
| I dealt with this too. Rode in a treeless and was getting launched around the turns. Some saddles sit you behind, or in front. I bought a pozzi and have not once been launched since. To say i love my pozzi would be an undunderstatement! It sits you exactly where you need to be! |
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 Dog Resuce Agent
Posts: 3459
Location: southeast Texas | Try shortening your stirrups. I went to a clinic with the same issue. The instructors REALLY shortened my stirrups. Kind of like if I was riding English. Made a run. What a difference. Dummie me, let them back out bet not as long as I had them. Several runs later I got to thinking on why I was having problems. Thought about that clinic, shortened stirrups, horse finished his third instead of blowing out of turn. Happy dance. |
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 I hate cooking and cleaning
Posts: 3314
Location: Jersey Girl | I had to switch from a BM because I was having the very same issue. No matter what I did I was always left behind. It was keeping me locked in too much. |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | I don't know how anyone CAN get up and over in a Bob Marshall. I've ridden in one and my boobs go forward and my butt goes back and my legs go out when I tried to get up and over because there's no structure to the saddle. I say just sit on your ass and actively ride to your next one. |
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Veteran
Posts: 138
| Lol, Hammer, that made me laugh.
Unfortunately, I don't have the budget for a treed saddle that fits my horse, hence the BM. For what I purchased it for, I couldn't even buy a test ride on a Pozzi or anything worth riding in. I truly wish I could! Just trying to work with what I have without going into debt. I know that my horse likes the treeless better than the saddle I was riding her in before. I may try to run in my Bobs Custom to see if it is in fact a saddle issue that is keeping me behind, rather than me just not being an efficient rider. I know that there are people that can get their hinneys out of a treeless... Fallon does it, and I've seen a local competitor or two run successfully in them. I want to give this saddle a chance, because it feels great and my mare really seems to like it.
I assure you... if I had the budget it takes to buy a treed saddle that fit both my horse and I, I would in a heartbeat. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 966
Location: Loco,Ok | If you feel like the seat is too big try a seat plug.It straps in and will shorten the seat about an inch.We had two made by a saddle maker firend.They have them I think on NRS site. |
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 pressure dripper
Posts: 8699
Location: the end of the rainbow | hammer_time - 2015-06-12 11:47 PM
I don't know how anyone CAN get up and over in a Bob Marshall. I've ridden in one and my boobs go forward and my butt goes back and my legs go out when I tried to get up and over because there's no structure to the saddle. I say just sit on your ass and actively ride to your next one.
This exactly. I can't get up out of a Bob Marshall at a run to save my life. But I know a bunch of gals that are very successful staying on their butts getting their upper body forward some and riding hard. |
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Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | I'm glad I'm not the only one who struggles in those saddles. By GOLLY they are comfy but I feel sucked in! I can get up and over in a split second to rope in my Tod Slone barrel/roper combo saddle but I feel downright retarded when I try in the Bob Marshall!!  |
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Location: midwest mama | clampitt - 2015-06-13 3:52 PM
If you feel like the seat is too big try a seat plug.It straps in and will shorten the seat about an inch.We had two made by a saddle maker firend.They have them I think on NRS site.
What is a "seat plug?"
Do you mean bucking rolls? |
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Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | OldSchoolCowgirl - 2015-06-14 11:52 AM clampitt - 2015-06-13 3:52 PM If you feel like the seat is too big try a seat plug.It straps in and will shorten the seat about an inch.We had two made by a saddle maker firend.They have them I think on NRS site. What is a "seat plug?" Do you mean bucking rolls?
Probably this?
http://www.nrsworld.com/martin-saddlery/saddle-seat-shrinker-6259
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 Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
Location: Texas | hammer_time - 2015-06-14 5:30 PM OldSchoolCowgirl - 2015-06-14 11:52 AM clampitt - 2015-06-13 3:52 PM If you feel like the seat is too big try a seat plug.It straps in and will shorten the seat about an inch.We had two made by a saddle maker firend.They have them I think on NRS site. What is a "seat plug?" Do you mean bucking rolls?
Are these comfortable? |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| There really is no thing as a seat too big. A bigger seat will only help you sit deeper in the turns. Why do you think cutting ppl ride those big ol 16 in saddles? Most barrel ppl ride a saddle thats too small and too high a back that throws them forward in the turns and they have no idea it causes them to be off balance because they can't sit deep and stay balanced and with their horses in the turns. BUT i will say there are some girls those style of riding requires them to stay forward and some horses bottom line with not clock and work if not constantly pushed by a rider that stays forward and pushes on them however awkward that may look. Case in point Sarah and bling or the old team of Brian and Peaches. Google pics I'm too lazy to resize and post. Everyone has a different style and so does the horse...it'll work for some but not for others. Some ppl want a bob marshall saddle to help them stay with a horse that "bends into" or is "snakey" in the turns. I usually just sale that kinda horse LOL
99% of the time getting behind is caused by not being balanced in the turns and usually thats just a seat/confidence problem.
Best exercise is to ride. Lope lots and lots of circles without depending on the reins to balance. Have someone lounge your horse and use one hand to hold the horn if you must, eventually you want to focus on not touching anything. Youtube a reiner or stacy westfall (a bride less run) and watch them...they have their hands up for balance to help but they are completely out of that horses mouth balancing on their own.
Another one I've seen is setting your saddle up on a fence and you practicing like its a run and starfishes and kicking to win the world. It'll teach you balance or the fence with dump you LOL
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | astreakinchic - 2015-06-14 5:59 PM There really is no thing as a seat too big. A bigger seat will only help you sit deeper in the turns. Why do you think cutting ppl ride those big ol 16 in saddles? Most barrel ppl ride a saddle thats too small and too high a back that throws them forward in the turns and they have no idea it causes them to be off balance because they can't sit deep and stay balanced and with their horses in the turns. BUT i will say there are some girls those style of riding requires them to stay forward and some horses bottom line with not clock and work if not constantly pushed by a rider that stays forward and pushes on them however awkward that may look. Case in point Sarah and bling or the old team of Brian and Peaches. Google pics I'm too lazy to resize and post. Everyone has a different style and so does the horse...it'll work for some but not for others. Some ppl want a bob marshall saddle to help them stay with a horse that "bends into" or is "snakey" in the turns. I usually just sale that kinda horse LOL 99% of the time getting behind is caused by not being balanced in the turns and usually thats just a seat/confidence problem. Best exercise is to ride. Lope lots and lots of circles without depending on the reins to balance. Have someone lounge your horse and use one hand to hold the horn if you must, eventually you want to focus on not touching anything. Youtube a reiner or stacy westfall (a bride less run) and watch them...they have their hands up for balance to help but they are completely out of that horses mouth balancing on their own. Another one I've seen is setting your saddle up on a fence and you practicing like its a run and starfishes and kicking to win the world. It'll teach you balance or the fence with dump you LOL
Now that would be a funny video watching someone riding the fence, LOL |
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 BHW Jr. Cougar of the Year
Posts: 14957
Location: Heart of Texas | I feel ya! Finally, after 4 years of soundness problems I believe my gelding is finally sound. Boy did I ever get left behind Tuesday night. Some how I still won the 1D despite my trick riding. I've never been left behind, even on him, but he's never been sound. My right palm is bruised badly from my death grip on the saddle horn. That's how much force he left the 3rd barrel with. All 14 hands of him. My friend said, "wow, you really caught some air on the 3rd." lol I need a seat belt and some glue. 
I borrowed a sports saddle for Friday night. And... he ducked the second barrel after smoking the 1st. I did not feel safe either and felt it bunch up. I think it freaked im out. 
Soooooooooooo, I'm going to shorten my stirrups and put some of that sticky stuff on my seat. It's too slick. And, start working out. I will be prepared for next time.
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas | Okay... For what it's worth... I'm going to give you a little critique of your run.
I don't necessarily think you're behind. You actually ride her well. Here is what I see that could help you. Your seat looks a tad too small, your stirrups look a bit too short, and you are leaning forward in your run which is keeping your mare a little heavy on her front end. You are even leaning forward through your turns, which means you are not sitting up and using your legs and seat to urge your horse forward. When we lean forward we throw our horses on their front end which tends to slow down the motor in the turns as well as in our approach. That is how we lose that snappy turn around the barrels. Fix those little things and you can shave up to a half second off your runs.
edited to add... Your legs are too far forward in the saddle... That is why you are having trouble getting up out of it. If your legs were more in the correct riding position, under your hips, it would give you some leverage to push yourself up so you could be "lighter" in your saddle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz-R_eyj4Aw
That's a nice little horse, good luck!
Edited by grinandbareit 2015-06-14 10:44 PM
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Veteran
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| grinandbareit - 2015-06-14 10:33 PM
Okay... For what it's worth... I'm going to give you a little critique of your run.
I don't necessarily think you're behind. You actually ride her well. Here is what I see that could help you. Your seat looks a tad too small, your stirrups look a bit too short, and you are leaning forward in your run which is keeping your mare a little heavy on her front end. You are even leaning forward through your turns, which means you are not sitting up and using your legs and seat to urge your horse forward. When we lean forward we throw our horses on their front end which tends to slow down the motor in the turns as well as in our approach. That is how we lose that snappy turn around the barrels. Fix those little things and you can shave up to a half second off your runs.
edited to add... Your legs are too far forward in the saddle... That is why you are having trouble getting up out of it. If your legs were more in the correct riding position, under your hips, it would give you some leverage to push yourself up so you could be "lighter" in your saddle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz-R_eyj4Aw
That's a nice little horse, good luck!
Thanks. She is actually an exceedingly front endy horse. One I've mentioned before on another post. But in this video, for her, it's very engaged. I've thought about trying to get my feet behind me more through a turn to see if it would help. I have to use my legs to steer her through the first barrel, so it can be tricky for me to remember to keep my leg back, when I need it forward to push her over.
Gotta give me a break here. I'm working my butt of trying to regain my balance. Working through the week on reiners, equitation, and horsemanship... This is MY first run in almost 2 years. Second time going through the barrel pattern in this saddle. I'm struggling and working hard every single day to get back into any kind of shape. I think the majority of the run is just me reverting to whatever muscle memory I have from before, which is of course flawed. I didn't feel like I was too forward in the saddle... I felt like I was just struggling to stay forward. The saddle feels good, as far as size. It's a 16in seat, and I typically ride in a 15.5in treed saddle. Been told several times that shorter stirrups is necessary for these saddles. They are just a smidge MAYBE shorter than typical stirrup length. I've never ridden in one prior, so I'm really just trying to figure out the perfect configuration that works for me.
I know after the second, especially, I got left behind... probably a few strides behind her and didn't ride her appropriately and push her through the third barrel, she got dumped on the front end. But its truly because I wasn't there to do my job. She just turned it without a rider. When I ride in and get her hip pushed in, she can rip around one. I just have to help her. So frustrating... even with these mistakes, she placed in the 1D for her first race back. There will be mistakes, but I don't think critiquing the heck out of a first run is going to do much good. Especially after I've torn through it for days by now. lol But I do appreciate the perspective from the outside, in. lol I've never had anyone tell me to sit deeper and get my body back before. I'm usually the one who is yelled at to "jockey"...
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lol I can relate. This was the first competition run in over a year for her, then almost another year before that. After I had my daughter, I started her back in the reining and when I decided to put her on barrels again, she just started working like never before. I was taken aback when she wanted to run harder and turn harder than I remember. lol I swear if I had a seat belt and super glue, I would have won the whole dang thing! ;-)
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| hammer_time - 2015-06-14 5:30 PM
OldSchoolCowgirl - 2015-06-14 11:52 AM clampitt - 2015-06-13 3:52 PM If you feel like the seat is too big try a seat plug.It straps in and will shorten the seat about an inch.We had two made by a saddle maker firend.They have them I think on NRS site. What is a "seat plug?" Do you mean bucking rolls? http://www.nrsworld.com/martin-saddlery/saddle-seat-shrinker-6259
I don't feel like the seat is too big... but how interesting. Never seen one before. |
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| Southtxponygirl - 2015-06-14 6:34 PM
astreakinchic - 2015-06-14 5:59 PM There really is no thing as a seat too big. A bigger seat will only help you sit deeper in the turns. Why do you think cutting ppl ride those big ol 16 in saddles? Most barrel ppl ride a saddle thats too small and too high a back that throws them forward in the turns and they have no idea it causes them to be off balance because they can't sit deep and stay balanced and with their horses in the turns. BUT i will say there are some girls those style of riding requires them to stay forward and some horses bottom line with not clock and work if not constantly pushed by a rider that stays forward and pushes on them however awkward that may look. Case in point Sarah and bling or the old team of Brian and Peaches. Google pics I'm too lazy to resize and post. Everyone has a different style and so does the horse...it'll work for some but not for others. Some ppl want a bob marshall saddle to help them stay with a horse that "bends into" or is "snakey" in the turns. I usually just sale that kinda horse LOL 99% of the time getting behind is caused by not being balanced in the turns and usually thats just a seat/confidence problem. Best exercise is to ride. Lope lots and lots of circles without depending on the reins to balance. Have someone lounge your horse and use one hand to hold the horn if you must, eventually you want to focus on not touching anything. Youtube a reiner or stacy westfall (a bride less run) and watch them...they have their hands up for balance to help but they are completely out of that horses mouth balancing on their own. Another one I've seen is setting your saddle up on a fence and you practicing like its a run and starfishes and kicking to win the world. It'll teach you balance or the fence with dump you LOL
Now that would be a funny video watching someone riding the fence, LOL
I guess she's never sat in a treeless. lol I think I'd need a doctor after riding it on a fence... |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| CallMeSkidmark - 2015-06-15 8:41 AM
Southtxponygirl - 2015-06-14 6:34 PM
astreakinchic - 2015-06-14 5:59 PM There really is no thing as a seat too big. A bigger seat will only help you sit deeper in the turns. Why do you think cutting ppl ride those big ol 16 in saddles? Most barrel ppl ride a saddle thats too small and too high a back that throws them forward in the turns and they have no idea it causes them to be off balance because they can't sit deep and stay balanced and with their horses in the turns. BUT i will say there are some girls those style of riding requires them to stay forward and some horses bottom line with not clock and work if not constantly pushed by a rider that stays forward and pushes on them however awkward that may look. Case in point Sarah and bling or the old team of Brian and Peaches. Google pics I'm too lazy to resize and post. Everyone has a different style and so does the horse...it'll work for some but not for others. Some ppl want a bob marshall saddle to help them stay with a horse that "bends into" or is "snakey" in the turns. I usually just sale that kinda horse LOL 99% of the time getting behind is caused by not being balanced in the turns and usually thats just a seat/confidence problem. Best exercise is to ride. Lope lots and lots of circles without depending on the reins to balance. Have someone lounge your horse and use one hand to hold the horn if you must, eventually you want to focus on not touching anything. Youtube a reiner or stacy westfall (a bride less run) and watch them...they have their hands up for balance to help but they are completely out of that horses mouth balancing on their own. Another one I've seen is setting your saddle up on a fence and you practicing like its a run and starfishes and kicking to win the world. It'll teach you balance or the fence with dump you LOL
Now that would be a funny video watching someone riding the fence, LOL
I guess she's never sat in a treeless. lol I think I'd need a doctor after riding it on a fence...
actually this is straight from Jackie and Tammi they even recommend you do it at their clinics
And I've owned 10-12 treeless saddles 
Edited by astreakinchic 2015-06-15 11:22 AM
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| CallMeSkidmark - 2015-06-15 7:41 AM
Southtxponygirl - 2015-06-14 6:34 PM
astreakinchic - 2015-06-14 5:59 PM There really is no thing as a seat too big. A bigger seat will only help you sit deeper in the turns. Why do you think cutting ppl ride those big ol 16 in saddles? Most barrel ppl ride a saddle thats too small and too high a back that throws them forward in the turns and they have no idea it causes them to be off balance because they can't sit deep and stay balanced and with their horses in the turns. BUT i will say there are some girls those style of riding requires them to stay forward and some horses bottom line with not clock and work if not constantly pushed by a rider that stays forward and pushes on them however awkward that may look. Case in point Sarah and bling or the old team of Brian and Peaches. Google pics I'm too lazy to resize and post. Everyone has a different style and so does the horse...it'll work for some but not for others. Some ppl want a bob marshall saddle to help them stay with a horse that "bends into" or is "snakey" in the turns. I usually just sale that kinda horse LOL 99% of the time getting behind is caused by not being balanced in the turns and usually thats just a seat/confidence problem. Best exercise is to ride. Lope lots and lots of circles without depending on the reins to balance. Have someone lounge your horse and use one hand to hold the horn if you must, eventually you want to focus on not touching anything. Youtube a reiner or stacy westfall (a bride less run) and watch them...they have their hands up for balance to help but they are completely out of that horses mouth balancing on their own. Another one I've seen is setting your saddle up on a fence and you practicing like its a run and starfishes and kicking to win the world. It'll teach you balance or the fence with dump you LOL
Now that would be a funny video watching someone riding the fence, LOL
I guess she's never sat in a treeless. lol I think I'd need a doctor after riding it on a fence...
But it doesn't hold the shape on a fence...? I've sat in it on a saddle stand and it felt completely different than on a horse. Not trying to be snappy, just trying to understand the best way to do it. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | CallMeSkidmark - 2015-06-15 11:35 AM CallMeSkidmark - 2015-06-15 7:41 AM Southtxponygirl - 2015-06-14 6:34 PM astreakinchic - 2015-06-14 5:59 PM There really is no thing as a seat too big. A bigger seat will only help you sit deeper in the turns. Why do you think cutting ppl ride those big ol 16 in saddles? Most barrel ppl ride a saddle thats too small and too high a back that throws them forward in the turns and they have no idea it causes them to be off balance because they can't sit deep and stay balanced and with their horses in the turns. BUT i will say there are some girls those style of riding requires them to stay forward and some horses bottom line with not clock and work if not constantly pushed by a rider that stays forward and pushes on them however awkward that may look. Case in point Sarah and bling or the old team of Brian and Peaches. Google pics I'm too lazy to resize and post. Everyone has a different style and so does the horse...it'll work for some but not for others. Some ppl want a bob marshall saddle to help them stay with a horse that "bends into" or is "snakey" in the turns. I usually just sale that kinda horse LOL 99% of the time getting behind is caused by not being balanced in the turns and usually thats just a seat/confidence problem. Best exercise is to ride. Lope lots and lots of circles without depending on the reins to balance. Have someone lounge your horse and use one hand to hold the horn if you must, eventually you want to focus on not touching anything. Youtube a reiner or stacy westfall (a bride less run) and watch them...they have their hands up for balance to help but they are completely out of that horses mouth balancing on their own. Another one I've seen is setting your saddle up on a fence and you practicing like its a run and starfishes and kicking to win the world. It'll teach you balance or the fence with dump you LOL Now that would be a funny video watching someone riding the fence, LOL I guess she's never sat in a treeless. lol I think I'd need a doctor after riding it on a fence... But it doesn't hold the shape on a fence...? I've sat in it on a saddle stand and it felt completely different than on a horse. Not trying to be snappy, just trying to understand the best way to do it.
I think a treeless saddle on a fence would have a whole different feel then a treed, the treeless would not hold a shape very well I would think, and a treed you would really have to balance to keep it on the fence, so to me a treed saddle would be a better fence rider, LOL |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | astreakinchic - 2015-06-15 11:20 AM CallMeSkidmark - 2015-06-15 8:41 AM Southtxponygirl - 2015-06-14 6:34 PM astreakinchic - 2015-06-14 5:59 PM There really is no thing as a seat too big. A bigger seat will only help you sit deeper in the turns. Why do you think cutting ppl ride those big ol 16 in saddles? Most barrel ppl ride a saddle thats too small and too high a back that throws them forward in the turns and they have no idea it causes them to be off balance because they can't sit deep and stay balanced and with their horses in the turns. BUT i will say there are some girls those style of riding requires them to stay forward and some horses bottom line with not clock and work if not constantly pushed by a rider that stays forward and pushes on them however awkward that may look. Case in point Sarah and bling or the old team of Brian and Peaches. Google pics I'm too lazy to resize and post. Everyone has a different style and so does the horse...it'll work for some but not for others. Some ppl want a bob marshall saddle to help them stay with a horse that "bends into" or is "snakey" in the turns. I usually just sale that kinda horse LOL 99% of the time getting behind is caused by not being balanced in the turns and usually thats just a seat/confidence problem. Best exercise is to ride. Lope lots and lots of circles without depending on the reins to balance. Have someone lounge your horse and use one hand to hold the horn if you must, eventually you want to focus on not touching anything. Youtube a reiner or stacy westfall (a bride less run) and watch them...they have their hands up for balance to help but they are completely out of that horses mouth balancing on their own. Another one I've seen is setting your saddle up on a fence and you practicing like its a run and starfishes and kicking to win the world. It'll teach you balance or the fence with dump you LOL Now that would be a funny video watching someone riding the fence, LOL I guess she's never sat in a treeless. lol I think I'd need a doctor after riding it on a fence... actually this is straight from Jackie and Tammi they even recommend you do it at their clinics And I've owned 10-12 treeless saddles
Edited to add; I'm sorry if I offened you I did not mean for it to sound snarky, was writing what I was thinking would be funny.
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2015-06-15 12:38 PM
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Go For It!
Location: Texas | CallMeSkidmark - 2015-06-15 7:36 AM
grinandbareit - 2015-06-14 10:33 PM
Okay... For what it's worth... I'm going to give you a little critique of your run.
I don't necessarily think you're behind. You actually ride her well. Here is what I see that could help you. Your seat looks a tad too small, your stirrups look a bit too short, and you are leaning forward in your run which is keeping your mare a little heavy on her front end. You are even leaning forward through your turns, which means you are not sitting up and using your legs and seat to urge your horse forward. When we lean forward we throw our horses on their front end which tends to slow down the motor in the turns as well as in our approach. That is how we lose that snappy turn around the barrels. Fix those little things and you can shave up to a half second off your runs.
edited to add... Your legs are too far forward in the saddle... That is why you are having trouble getting up out of it. If your legs were more in the correct riding position, under your hips, it would give you some leverage to push yourself up so you could be "lighter" in your saddle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz-R_eyj4Aw
That's a nice little horse, good luck!
Thanks. She is actually an exceedingly front endy horse. One I've mentioned before on another post. But in this video, for her, it's very engaged. I've thought about trying to get my feet behind me more through a turn to see if it would help. I have to use my legs to steer her through the first barrel, so it can be tricky for me to remember to keep my leg back, when I need it forward to push her over.
Gotta give me a break here. I'm working my butt of trying to regain my balance. Working through the week on reiners, equitation, and horsemanship... This is MY first run in almost 2 years. Second time going through the barrel pattern in this saddle. I'm struggling and working hard every single day to get back into any kind of shape. I think the majority of the run is just me reverting to whatever muscle memory I have from before, which is of course flawed. I didn't feel like I was too forward in the saddle... I felt like I was just struggling to stay forward. The saddle feels good, as far as size. It's a 16in seat, and I typically ride in a 15.5in treed saddle. Been told several times that shorter stirrups is necessary for these saddles. They are just a smidge MAYBE shorter than typical stirrup length. I've never ridden in one prior, so I'm really just trying to figure out the perfect configuration that works for me.
I know after the second, especially, I got left behind... probably a few strides behind her and didn't ride her appropriately and push her through the third barrel, she got dumped on the front end. But its truly because I wasn't there to do my job. She just turned it without a rider. When I ride in and get her hip pushed in, she can rip around one. I just have to help her. So frustrating... even with these mistakes, she placed in the 1D for her first race back. There will be mistakes, but I don't think critiquing the heck out of a first run is going to do much good. Especially after I've torn through it for days by now. lol But I do appreciate the perspective from the outside, in. lol I've never had anyone tell me to sit deeper and get my body back before. I'm usually the one who is yelled at to "jockey"...
When ladies come to the clinic, one of the biggest issues we see is people leaning too far forward. They think that it helps propel their horse forward, but it really doesn't. It is especially detrimental when you have a horse that is already heavy on the front end. It animates the problem even more. I grew up in the cutting horse industry and you are taught to sit deep, push those legs forward and stay out of the way, it was a difficult adjustment when I started barrel racing twenty years ago. I'm sure you'll get it worked out.
In the video I posted, I'm in a treeless saddle. I have never actually had an issue getting up out of my saddle when necessary, though I hear that complaint a lot. Try to remember that it isn't about "staying forward" as much as it is about finding what I call the "sweet spot". You are right with your horse, maybe 1/2 a stride ahead, staying engaged yet out of their way. It's like water skiing... if you fight the pull of the boat or lean too far back or too far forward, your going to have a pretty uncomfortable ride across that wake, not to mention a better chance of crashing and burning, but if you get those knees bent just a bit, keep your feet just below your hips, and relax... you can use the energy from the boat to carry you across the wake without a hitch. ;)
Good luck!
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Southtxponygirl - 2015-06-15 1:33 PM
astreakinchic - 2015-06-15 11:20 AM CallMeSkidmark - 2015-06-15 8:41 AM Southtxponygirl - 2015-06-14 6:34 PM astreakinchic - 2015-06-14 5:59 PM There really is no thing as a seat too big. A bigger seat will only help you sit deeper in the turns. Why do you think cutting ppl ride those big ol 16 in saddles? Most barrel ppl ride a saddle thats too small and too high a back that throws them forward in the turns and they have no idea it causes them to be off balance because they can't sit deep and stay balanced and with their horses in the turns. BUT i will say there are some girls those style of riding requires them to stay forward and some horses bottom line with not clock and work if not constantly pushed by a rider that stays forward and pushes on them however awkward that may look. Case in point Sarah and bling or the old team of Brian and Peaches. Google pics I'm too lazy to resize and post. Everyone has a different style and so does the horse...it'll work for some but not for others. Some ppl want a bob marshall saddle to help them stay with a horse that "bends into" or is "snakey" in the turns. I usually just sale that kinda horse LOL 99% of the time getting behind is caused by not being balanced in the turns and usually thats just a seat/confidence problem. Best exercise is to ride. Lope lots and lots of circles without depending on the reins to balance. Have someone lounge your horse and use one hand to hold the horn if you must, eventually you want to focus on not touching anything. Youtube a reiner or stacy westfall (a bride less run) and watch them...they have their hands up for balance to help but they are completely out of that horses mouth balancing on their own. Another one I've seen is setting your saddle up on a fence and you practicing like its a run and starfishes and kicking to win the world. It'll teach you balance or the fence with dump you LOL Now that would be a funny video watching someone riding the fence, LOL I guess she's never sat in a treeless. lol I think I'd need a doctor after riding it on a fence... actually this is straight from Jackie and Tammi they even recommend you do it at their clinics And I've owned 10-12 treeless saddles
Edited to add; I'm sorry if I offened you I did not mean for it to sound snarky, was writing what I was thinking would be funny.
NO NO your fine! I never get my panties in a twist! LOL
I post quick, short, and from my phone...i should put a disclaimer on here I guess LOL
I've never done the fence riding thing myself but I've seen ppl do it religiously and it helped their balance. Also, it helped this one girl learn to whip after riding free runners she bought a push style and the fence riding helped her practice without blowing up or putting undo stress on her horse.
Edited by astreakinchic 2015-06-15 4:40 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| astreakinchic - 2015-06-15 12:20 PM
CallMeSkidmark - 2015-06-15 8:41 AM
Southtxponygirl - 2015-06-14 6:34 PM
astreakinchic - 2015-06-14 5:59 PM There really is no thing as a seat too big. A bigger seat will only help you sit deeper in the turns. Why do you think cutting ppl ride those big ol 16 in saddles? Most barrel ppl ride a saddle thats too small and too high a back that throws them forward in the turns and they have no idea it causes them to be off balance because they can't sit deep and stay balanced and with their horses in the turns. BUT i will say there are some girls those style of riding requires them to stay forward and some horses bottom line with not clock and work if not constantly pushed by a rider that stays forward and pushes on them however awkward that may look. Case in point Sarah and bling or the old team of Brian and Peaches. Google pics I'm too lazy to resize and post. Everyone has a different style and so does the horse...it'll work for some but not for others. Some ppl want a bob marshall saddle to help them stay with a horse that "bends into" or is "snakey" in the turns. I usually just sale that kinda horse LOL 99% of the time getting behind is caused by not being balanced in the turns and usually thats just a seat/confidence problem. Best exercise is to ride. Lope lots and lots of circles without depending on the reins to balance. Have someone lounge your horse and use one hand to hold the horn if you must, eventually you want to focus on not touching anything. Youtube a reiner or stacy westfall (a bride less run) and watch them...they have their hands up for balance to help but they are completely out of that horses mouth balancing on their own. Another one I've seen is setting your saddle up on a fence and you practicing like its a run and starfishes and kicking to win the world. It'll teach you balance or the fence with dump you LOL
Now that would be a funny video watching someone riding the fence, LOL
I guess she's never sat in a treeless. lol I think I'd need a doctor after riding it on a fence...
actually this is straight from Jackie and Tammi they even recommend you do it at their clinics
And I've owned 10-12 treeless saddles
Knew a gal that did it in her jackie treeless and let me tell you you'll either learn balance or hurt yourself LOL
Just for fun I did try it once in a treed saddle.
Its not really how I'd recommend to fix the problem but I do know ppl who have had success with this method. If you google you might be able to find where Jackie Dube talks about doing this. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | astreakinchic - 2015-06-15 4:39 PM Southtxponygirl - 2015-06-15 1:33 PM astreakinchic - 2015-06-15 11:20 AM CallMeSkidmark - 2015-06-15 8:41 AM Southtxponygirl - 2015-06-14 6:34 PM astreakinchic - 2015-06-14 5:59 PM There really is no thing as a seat too big. A bigger seat will only help you sit deeper in the turns. Why do you think cutting ppl ride those big ol 16 in saddles? Most barrel ppl ride a saddle thats too small and too high a back that throws them forward in the turns and they have no idea it causes them to be off balance because they can't sit deep and stay balanced and with their horses in the turns. BUT i will say there are some girls those style of riding requires them to stay forward and some horses bottom line with not clock and work if not constantly pushed by a rider that stays forward and pushes on them however awkward that may look. Case in point Sarah and bling or the old team of Brian and Peaches. Google pics I'm too lazy to resize and post. Everyone has a different style and so does the horse...it'll work for some but not for others. Some ppl want a bob marshall saddle to help them stay with a horse that "bends into" or is "snakey" in the turns. I usually just sale that kinda horse LOL 99% of the time getting behind is caused by not being balanced in the turns and usually thats just a seat/confidence problem. Best exercise is to ride. Lope lots and lots of circles without depending on the reins to balance. Have someone lounge your horse and use one hand to hold the horn if you must, eventually you want to focus on not touching anything. Youtube a reiner or stacy westfall (a bride less run) and watch them...they have their hands up for balance to help but they are completely out of that horses mouth balancing on their own. Another one I've seen is setting your saddle up on a fence and you practicing like its a run and starfishes and kicking to win the world. It'll teach you balance or the fence with dump you LOL Now that would be a funny video watching someone riding the fence, LOL I guess she's never sat in a treeless. lol I think I'd need a doctor after riding it on a fence... actually this is straight from Jackie and Tammi they even recommend you do it at their clinics And I've owned 10-12 treeless saddles
Edited to add; I'm sorry if I offened you I did not mean for it to sound snarky, was writing what I was thinking would be funny. NO NO your fine! I never get my panties in a twist! LOL I post quick, short, and from my phone...i should put a disclaimer on here I guess LOL I've never done the fence riding thing myself but I've seen ppl do it religiously and it helped their balance. Also, it helped this one girl learn to whip after riding free runners she bought a push style and the fence riding helped her practice without blowing up or putting undo stress on her horse.
Good that we're good, LOL Holy cow if I tryed the fence riding I would wind up breaking something or hurting my saddle then I would be mad, lol... I bet a bucking barrel would be fun with a saddle if you could keep it on there.
But I have never heard of putting your saddle on a fence and do the whiping and kicking thing. But I'm old school and this must have come up with all the new things to do for your riding in the last 15 years. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Southtxponygirl - 2015-06-15 5:50 PM
astreakinchic - 2015-06-15 4:39 PM Southtxponygirl - 2015-06-15 1:33 PM astreakinchic - 2015-06-15 11:20 AM CallMeSkidmark - 2015-06-15 8:41 AM Southtxponygirl - 2015-06-14 6:34 PM astreakinchic - 2015-06-14 5:59 PM There really is no thing as a seat too big. A bigger seat will only help you sit deeper in the turns. Why do you think cutting ppl ride those big ol 16 in saddles? Most barrel ppl ride a saddle thats too small and too high a back that throws them forward in the turns and they have no idea it causes them to be off balance because they can't sit deep and stay balanced and with their horses in the turns. BUT i will say there are some girls those style of riding requires them to stay forward and some horses bottom line with not clock and work if not constantly pushed by a rider that stays forward and pushes on them however awkward that may look. Case in point Sarah and bling or the old team of Brian and Peaches. Google pics I'm too lazy to resize and post. Everyone has a different style and so does the horse...it'll work for some but not for others. Some ppl want a bob marshall saddle to help them stay with a horse that "bends into" or is "snakey" in the turns. I usually just sale that kinda horse LOL 99% of the time getting behind is caused by not being balanced in the turns and usually thats just a seat/confidence problem. Best exercise is to ride. Lope lots and lots of circles without depending on the reins to balance. Have someone lounge your horse and use one hand to hold the horn if you must, eventually you want to focus on not touching anything. Youtube a reiner or stacy westfall (a bride less run) and watch them...they have their hands up for balance to help but they are completely out of that horses mouth balancing on their own. Another one I've seen is setting your saddle up on a fence and you practicing like its a run and starfishes and kicking to win the world. It'll teach you balance or the fence with dump you LOL Now that would be a funny video watching someone riding the fence, LOL I guess she's never sat in a treeless. lol I think I'd need a doctor after riding it on a fence... actually this is straight from Jackie and Tammi they even recommend you do it at their clinics And I've owned 10-12 treeless saddles
Edited to add; I'm sorry if I offened you I did not mean for it to sound snarky, was writing what I was thinking would be funny. NO NO your fine! I never get my panties in a twist! LOL I post quick, short, and from my phone...i should put a disclaimer on here I guess LOL I've never done the fence riding thing myself but I've seen ppl do it religiously and it helped their balance. Also, it helped this one girl learn to whip after riding free runners she bought a push style and the fence riding helped her practice without blowing up or putting undo stress on her horse.
But I have never heard of putting your saddle on a fence and do the whiping and kicking thing. But I'm old school and this must have come up with all the new things to do for your riding in the last 15 years.
ahhh new to me too and not how i'd fix the problem but I've seen it help some ppl. They get confidence being able to practice that way. |
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Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
| CallMeSkidmark - 2015-06-13 1:51 PM Lol, Hammer, that made me laugh. Unfortunately, I don't have the budget for a treed saddle that fits my horse, hence the BM. For what I purchased it for, I couldn't even buy a test ride on a Pozzi or anything worth riding in. I truly wish I could! Just trying to work with what I have without going into debt. I know that my horse likes the treeless better than the saddle I was riding her in before. I may try to run in my Bobs Custom to see if it is in fact a saddle issue that is keeping me behind, rather than me just not being an efficient rider. I know that there are people that can get their hinneys out of a treeless... Fallon does it, and I've seen a local competitor or two run successfully in them. I want to give this saddle a chance, because it feels great and my mare really seems to like it. I assure you... if I had the budget it takes to buy a treed saddle that fit both my horse and I, I would in a heartbeat.
I WOULD NOT GET LEFT BEHIND ON MY OTHERS but bernie bear when he left a barrel i was really hoping i made the tip
i got a majic seat just for him i did not care what others said they did not pay my bills
so u might suck it get a majacic seat |
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Veteran
Posts: 138
| I'm sorry guys, been crazy around here so I didn't get a chance to look at the thread. Thank you everyone who responded with help!
I rode my gelding this week and worked the barrels with him and didn't feel the same struggle as I did with my mare. I slowed the videos down and did a frame by frame. I think a big part of the issue is just her way of going. Shes long as a Cadillac and front endy... so when I'm heading into and behind a barrel, I'm sitting down and back trying to get her to shift her body weight. Then all the sudden she goes from hip over head, to busting out of the barrel like a bat outa hell. I'm going to HAVE to get three steps ahead of her if I have any hope of hanging on without getting in the way. My gelding is shorter backed, and stays elevated through his front end through a turn, so I didn't feel even a little behind him. His body feels the same all the way around, while hers changes drastically in just a couple strides. It kinda of reminds me of how Hotshot went into a barrel... of course, not nearly as efficient as him, but still front endy in the same way.
Thank you again guys! I'm going to try to work on a few things mentioned and see how it is in a few months.
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