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 Hawty & Nawty
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| Mitt Romney and plenty of others see the confederate flag as a racist symbol. Well gee, my grandfather was a mounted calvary officer for the confederacy. I though the civil war was fought for a much deeper reason than just the removal of slavery. How do you feel about this? Is Mitt right? |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | Mitt is wrong. It's about Southern Pride.
Mitt sure has a lot to say now that he isn't running. What a joke. He needed to stand up when he was running instead of backing down like a whipped pup and handing the election over to Obama.
Edited by Nevertooold 2015-06-20 1:52 PM
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   Location: SE Louisiana | I don't see it as racism... I do see it as a symbol of open rebellion against the union. |
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Posts: 1314
    Location: North Central Iowa Land of white frozen grass | Mitt had his chance. I live in Iowa but I think that if a southern state wants the confederate flag they have the right. So shut up Mitt. You have nothing to say about this. |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
      
| RidenFly - 2015-06-20 12:53 PM
Mitt Romney and plenty of others see the confederate flag as a racist symbol. Well gee, my grandfather was a mounted calvary officer for the confederacy. I though the civil war was fought for a much deeper reason than just the removal of slavery. How do you feel about this? Is Mitt right?
Mitt is entitled to his opinion it is factual. South Carolina can choose to flay the flag if they wish. But along with that comes the fact that it also reminds many of their racist past. You are correct that the civil war was fought for many reasons primarily states rights but the preservation of slavery and racism was a large part of that battle also. |
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I just read the headlines
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| He is wrong. |
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"Heck's Coming With Me"
Posts: 10797
        Location: Kansas | Seems like a strange issue to bring up considering there are eighteen trillion better ones.
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
      
| Frodo - 2015-06-20 3:24 PM
Seems like a strange issue to bring up considering there are eighteen trillion better ones.
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
          Location: Washington | Known as the battle flag. It has served no purpose but to divide ever since. The KKK likes it for a reason. |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
          Location: Bastrop, Texas | I have an idea. Why don't we let South Carolina decide? Meanwhile, the rest of the country can focus their attention on matters of substance. You can remove every single Confederate flag in the country, and it won't change a dam thing. This is just symbolism over substance. |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
           Location: Florida.. | There are so many things the Media is going chaotic about.. its insane the posts on facebook and the news.. there are alot of differant stories and who said who who demands what etc.. half the stuff out there arent facts.. about who said what..I read one of the candidates said one thing then another story had him say exact oppositte. cant believe anything anymore and if you doYou can bet there are others saying it to.. its not a lone wolf. anything to make gun control needed and foundations removed from states.. fact is if a person at church that morning had been carrying there would be alot less victims.. but of course obama thinks and Libs think it should be about gun control.. and yes RACISM.. my guess is the guy didnt walk in there to cause more diversity.. he probrably hadnt even thought about that.. it was pure evil.. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | Here's a novel idea...How about instead of worrying about flags..we demand that the people in government quit lying and are held liable for their lies? Harry Reid knew he was lying about Romney not paying taxes and his answer was when he was asked.."He didn't win, did he?" It's all about getting the end result they want instead of getting what is best for our country and they will lie and cheat to get it and we the people aren't suppose to be ticked off.
They bash Trump for having money but think it's great that Hillary does. Could you imagine Hillary spending a dime on her on campaign? LOL
Just an FYI..It was the Democratic party that formed the KKK but when they figured out they needed the black vote is when they separated themselves from it. Just another day in the life of a liberal. Do what you have to do to get the result you want. |
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   Location: SE Louisiana | I can't wait to see what happens when white people are the minority (and it's coming sooner than you think). When white folks start screaming racism they will change the definition. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | komet. - 2015-06-20 6:03 PM I can't wait to see what happens when white people are the minority (and it's coming sooner than you think). When white folks start screaming racism they will change the definition.
They will change the definition.
How about instead of everyone having a label that people cherry pick to get the most mileage out of their label, all legal Americans be called Americans? The best person for the job is the one that gets the job. And we are all treated equal instead of some being treated special? |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
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          Location: Bastrop, Texas | Nevertooold - 2015-06-20 5:44 PM
Here's a novel idea...How about instead of worrying about flags..we demand that the people in government quit lying and are held liable for their lies? Harry Reid knew he was lying about Romney not paying taxes and his answer was when he was asked.."He didn't win, did he?" It's all about getting the end result they want instead of getting what is best for our country and they will lie and cheat to get it and we the people aren't suppose to be ticked off.
They bash Trump for having money but think it's great that Hillary does. Could you imagine Hillary spending a dime on her on campaign? LOL
Just an FYI..It was the Democratic party that formed the KKK but when they figured out they needed the black vote is when they separated themselves from it. Just another day in the life of a liberal. Do what you have to do to get the result you want.
You are right, Kathie. The best thing Republicans can do when things like this happen is acknowledge the facts - this was a sick, twisted kid. It clearly a racist act. Other facts, when we are talking about racism, is the Democrats using racist tactics on a daily basis and getting away with it. The Democrat party has an irrefutable history of racism in their past.....Presidents, Supreme Court Justices, senators, congressmen, governors, judges, and mayors. Racism and liberal politics has all but destroyed Native American culture, and it was racism that led to FDRs executive order to imprison tens of thousands of American citizens because they had slanted eyes in 1942. Nowadays it's more subtle to most casual observers, but still just as pervasive if one takes a close look. The Repubicans had better be careful, lest they fall into a trap and allow racism to become a hotbutton issue in 2016. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
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| Nevertooold - 2015-06-20 6:20 PM komet. - 2015-06-20 6:03 PM I can't wait to see what happens when white people are the minority (and it's coming sooner than you think). When white folks start screaming racism they will change the definition. They will change the definition.
How about instead of everyone having a label that people cherry pick to get the most mileage out of their label, all legal Americans be called Americans? The best person for the job is the one that gets the job. And we are all treated equal instead of some being treated special?
Hey, thanks to crazy Rachel we now have "Transcultural" identities-we can check those darn little boxes however we like. |
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
          Location: Washington | Kathy, You gave a perfect example of why this flag is no longer needed. It represents nothing good.  I also think the time of being affilated with any party is also a bad thing, why don't we vote who is the best in our eyes regardless of party....is that too liberal? lol |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
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          Location: Bastrop, Texas | fatchance - 2015-06-20 6:41 PM
Kathy, You gave a perfect example of why this flag is no longer needed. It represents nothing good. I also think the time of being affilated with any party is also a bad thing, why don't we vote who is the best in our eyes regardless of party....is that too liberal? lol
Too liberal? I don't think so, but I can't think of a single democrat running for congress, senate, or president who is not liberal. There are some liberal Republicans, but no liberal Democrats. That leaves me, an Independant, with two choices.....vote for the lessor of two evils, or don't vote at all. |
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
          Location: Washington | Nevertooold - 2015-06-20 4:20 PM komet. - 2015-06-20 6:03 PM I can't wait to see what happens when white people are the minority (and it's coming sooner than you think). When white folks start screaming racism they will change the definition. They will change the definition.
How about instead of everyone having a label that people cherry pick to get the most mileage out of their label, all legal Americans be called Americans? The best person for the job is the one that gets the job. And we are all treated equal instead of some being treated special?
But my Momma always said I was "special". |
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Extreme Veteran
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| Big difference to me, in the flag of the CSA, and the confederate battle flag. The flag that upsets people, is the the battle flag. Most wouldn't recognize the flag of the CSA if they saw it. The confederate battle flag was carried by the state of Tennessee in to battle. Later adopted by the Klan as a symbol (Klan started in Tennessee). |
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          Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Bigfoot - 2015-06-20 8:32 PM
Big difference to me, in the flag of the CSA, and the confederate battle flag. The flag that upsets people, is the the battle flag. Most wouldn't recognize the flag of the CSA if they saw it. The confederate battle flag was carried by the state of Tennessee in to battle. Later adopted by the Klan as a symbol (Klan started in Tennessee).
I thought it was the battle flag for the army of northern Virginia? |
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
          Location: Washington | Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-20 6:53 PM Bigfoot - 2015-06-20 8:32 PM Big difference to me, in the flag of the CSA, and the confederate battle flag. The flag that upsets people, is the the battle flag. Most wouldn't recognize the flag of the CSA if they saw it. The confederate battle flag was carried by the state of Tennessee in to battle. Later adopted by the Klan as a symbol (Klan started in Tennessee). I thought it was the battle flag for the army of northern Virginia?
The problem is there were many southern flags, some were confused with states. Then when the "Battle Flag" came into play, Lee is the one that put it into the battle fields, hence the name. |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
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| fatchance - 2015-06-20 9:04 PM
Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-20 6:53 PM Bigfoot - 2015-06-20 8:32 PM Big difference to me, in the flag of the CSA, and the confederate battle flag. The flag that upsets people, is the the battle flag. Most wouldn't recognize the flag of the CSA if they saw it. The confederate battle flag was carried by the state of Tennessee in to battle. Later adopted by the Klan as a symbol (Klan started in Tennessee). I thought it was the battle flag for the army of northern Virginia?
The problem is there were many southern flags, some were confused with states. Then when the "Battle Flag" came into play, Lee is the one that put it into the battle fields, hence the name.
The confusion between the battle flag of northern Va. and the TENN. battle flag is because the pattern is the same EXCEPT northern Va. is square and Tenn. is a rectangle. There where three national confederate flags from 1861 thru 1865. The second and the third incorporated the flag of northern Va. in the upper left on a white back round. |
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| Political correctness run amuck, these people need to pound sand. |
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| Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-20 8:53 PM
Bigfoot - 2015-06-20 8:32 PM
Big difference to me, in the flag of the CSA, and the confederate battle flag. The flag that upsets people, is the the battle flag. Most wouldn't recognize the flag of the CSA if they saw it. The confederate battle flag was carried by the state of Tennessee in to battle. Later adopted by the Klan as a symbol (Klan started in Tennessee).
I thought it was the battle flag for the army of northern Virginia?
The flag most commonly misidentified as "The Confederate Flag" is the battle flag of Tennessee. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
          Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | jbhoot - 2015-06-20 9:25 PM fatchance - 2015-06-20 9:04 PM Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-20 6:53 PM Bigfoot - 2015-06-20 8:32 PM Big difference to me, in the flag of the CSA, and the confederate battle flag. The flag that upsets people, is the the battle flag. Most wouldn't recognize the flag of the CSA if they saw it. The confederate battle flag was carried by the state of Tennessee in to battle. Later adopted by the Klan as a symbol (Klan started in Tennessee). I thought it was the battle flag for the army of northern Virginia? The problem is there were many southern flags, some were confused with states. Then when the "Battle Flag" came into play, Lee is the one that put it into the battle fields, hence the name. The confusion between the battle flag of northern Va. and the TENN. battle flag is because the pattern is the same EXCEPT northern Va. is square and Tenn. is a rectangle. There where three national confederate flags from 1861 thru 1865. The second and the third incorporated the flag of northern Va. in the upper left on a white back round.
Thanks for clarifying. |
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   Location: SE Louisiana | Bigfoot - 2015-06-20 9:44 PM
Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-20 8:53 PM
Bigfoot - 2015-06-20 8:32 PM
Big difference to me, in the flag of the CSA, and the confederate battle flag. The flag that upsets people, is the the battle flag. Most wouldn't recognize the flag of the CSA if they saw it. The confederate battle flag was carried by the state of Tennessee in to battle. Later adopted by the Klan as a symbol (Klan started in Tennessee).
I thought it was the battle flag for the army of northern Virginia?
The flag most commonly misidentified as "The Confederate Flag" is the battle flag of Tennessee.
GREAT!!! Everyone can fly the flag of Tennessee and be happy!!!  |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas | Nevertooold - 2015-06-20 1:50 PM
Mitt is wrong. It's about Southern Pride.
Mitt sure has a lot to say now that he isn't running. What a joke. He needed to stand up when he was running instead of backing down like a whipped pup and handing the election over to Obama.
My son (17) would respectfully ask to hug your neck. Southern pride is a huge thing with him. I'm glad he doesn't get on here to see this and put his two cents worth in! |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas | Bigfoot - 2015-06-20 8:32 PM
Big difference to me, in the flag of the CSA, and the confederate battle flag. The flag that upsets people, is the the battle flag. Most wouldn't recognize the flag of the CSA if they saw it. The confederate battle flag was carried by the state of Tennessee in to battle. Later adopted by the Klan as a symbol (Klan started in Tennessee).
I'm embarrassed to say my son just told me basically the same thing---the the original CSA flag caused confusion on the battlefield and Confederate soldiers were shooting each other so they changed it. That there were 3 "Confederate" flags. Ashamed he knows all this and I don't. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-20 10:59 PM Nevertooold - 2015-06-20 1:50 PM Mitt is wrong. It's about Southern Pride.
Mitt sure has a lot to say now that he isn't running. What a joke. He needed to stand up when he was running instead of backing down like a whipped pup and handing the election over to Obama. My son (17 ) would respectfully ask to hug your neck. Southern pride is a huge thing with him. I'm glad he doesn't get on here to see this and put his two cents worth in! I understand it as I'm married to a man that was raised in Alabama and for him it is southern pride. His family moved to Illinois when he was in High School and never lost his love for the south and never will. He is now 68 years old.
Edited by Nevertooold 2015-06-21 12:09 AM
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 My Heart Be Happy
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      Location: Arkansas | Nevertooold - 2015-06-21 12:07 AM
Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-20 10:59 PM Nevertooold - 2015-06-20 1:50 PM Mitt is wrong. It's about Southern Pride.
Mitt sure has a lot to say now that he isn't running. What a joke. He needed to stand up when he was running instead of backing down like a whipped pup and handing the election over to Obama. My son (17 ) would respectfully ask to hug your neck. Southern pride is a huge thing with him. I'm glad he doesn't get on here to see this and put his two cents worth in! I understand it as I'm married to a man that was raised in Alabama and for him it is southern pride. His family moved to Illinois when he was in High School and never lost his love for the south and never will. He is now 68 years old.
I bet he and Chandler could have some deep conversations about the South and good ole boy point of views!! |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
         Location: North Dakota | Bear - 2015-06-20 4:42 PM I have an idea. Why don't we let South Carolina decide? Meanwhile, the rest of the country can focus their attention on matters of substance. You can remove every single Confederate flag in the country, and it won't change a dam thing. This is just symbolism over substance.
And THAT is the truth. End of story. |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
          Location: Bastrop, Texas | It's odd to me how we've almost come full circle, in a certain sense. Among other factors, slavery and states soverignty were what led to the civil war. This nation was literally divided because of these issues. Many argue that states soverignty was even more divisive than slavery itself. Here we are, 150 years later, engulfed in a debate over states soverignty, because of symbolism, namely the Confederate flag. If I could look into the future, I wouldn't be surprised to see a movement whereby the cross becomes a symbol that many wish to abolish. After all, it is the cross with a "drop of blood" in the middle that constitutes the sign of the KKK. It wouldn't take much to see this become part of a national debate. From now on, every time some insane murderer goes on a rampage and is found to have a Confederate flag on his clothing, a tattoo, or bumper sticker, there will be calls by political leaders and race baiters to eliminate the state flags of South Carolina and Mississippi. Personally, I couldn't care less, but I do believe this should be left up to the people of the respective states. If the states believe it should not be changed because of a certain pride in their heritage, then so be it.
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    Location: Texas!! | The bad thing is Roof said he wanted to start a racial war. It looks like he will, in a round about way, and it's all about a flag...... |
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 Banjo and Baby
Posts: 7259
      Location: South of Canada and North of Mexico | jbhoot - 2015-06-20 3:14 PM RidenFly - 2015-06-20 12:53 PM Mitt Romney and plenty of others see the confederate flag as a racist symbol. Well gee, my grandfather was a mounted calvary officer for the confederacy. I though the civil war was fought for a much deeper reason than just the removal of slavery.
How do you feel about this? Is Mitt right? Mitt is entitled to his opinion it is factual. South Carolina can choose to flay the flag if they wish. But along with that comes the fact that it also reminds many of their racist past. You are correct that the civil war was fought for many reasons primarily states rights but the preservation of slavery and racism was a large part of that battle also.
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Common Sense and then some
         Location: So. California | This entire argument would have been avoided if SC had lowered their state flag to half mast. Why wasn't the SC state flag flying at half mast? Shouldn't the murder of innocent victims inside a church warrant a showing of respect and mourning? Shame on the person(s) who made the decision not to lower the flag... When I'm in place of worship, the last thing on my mind is that some crazy person is going to come in, sit quitely for an hour, then start shooting. I expect my place of worship to be a sanctuary, place of peace and forgiveness. A SAFE place to be.
Unfortunately, the media and politicians are using this situation to stir up controversy for their own benefit. And everyone is falling right into their trap! What we should be doing, as a nation, is focusing on the victims and community, sending prayers and showing our support.  |
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Elite Veteran
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       Location: Mountains of VA | Anniemae - 2015-06-21 2:56 PM This entire argument would have been avoided if SC had lowered their state flag to half mast. Why wasn't the SC state flag flying at half mast? Shouldn't the murder of innocent victims inside a church warrant a showing of respect and mourning? Shame on the person(s) who made the decision not to lower the flag... When I'm in place of worship, the last thing on my mind is that some crazy person is going to come in, sit quitely for an hour, then start shooting. I expect my place of worship to be a sanctuary, place of peace and forgiveness. A SAFE place to be.
Unfortunately, the media and politicians are using this situation to stir up controversy for their own benefit. And everyone is falling right into their trap! What we should be doing, as a nation, is focusing on the victims and community, sending prayers and showing our support. 
This^^^^
Also, as a nation, we should wonder why we have a generation of young men of different races that have no morals, no respect for human lives and are just completely out of touch with reality. |
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 Take a Picture
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| I think it is a flag issue alright but they are looking at the wrong flag. The guy had a picture on Facebook wearing a jacket wih a South African flag and a Rodesian flag, both strongholds for white supremacists. Rodesian is now Zimbabwe. Most Southern states have a Confederate flag flying over their Confederate memorial just as they have an American flag over their WW1 and WW2 memorials, Vietnam, etc.
I was in a Houston library and there was a black man and woman doing genealogical research. I happened to see a book on black Union military units in the Civil War and handed the book to them. They proudly told me that their ancestors served for the South. Needless to say, I was left rather speechless.
About four weeks ago, on my way to school there were three trucks in a row following each other through Marshall TX. One of the trailes said HOOD'S TEXAS BRIGADE. They were obviously reenactors. The truck with sign was driven by a black guy. By the way, TEXAS had its own battle flag.
There are three states that incorporate various civil war battle flags into them anyway. Four if you count TX. It is freedom of speech not a rácial issue.
Many cities have replaced the Confederate battle flag with the 1st National flag anyway. Most people do not have enough knowledge about the Civil War to even know what it is. By the way, it is the true "Stars And Bars"
Edited by streakysox 2015-06-21 3:55 PM
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| watchpeppydoc - 2015-06-21 2:04 PM
jbhoot - 2015-06-20 3:14 PM RidenFly - 2015-06-20 12:53 PM Mitt Romney and plenty of others see the confederate flag as a racist symbol. Well gee, my grandfather was a mounted calvary officer for the confederacy. I though the civil war was fought for a much deeper reason than just the removal of slavery.
How do you feel about this? Is Mitt right? Mitt is entitled to his opinion it is factual. South Carolina can choose to flay the flag if they wish. But along with that comes the fact that it also reminds many of their racist past. You are correct that the civil war was fought for many reasons primarily states rights but the preservation of slavery and racism was a large part of that battle also.
The Confederate Battle Flag is NOT the state flag of SC. The flag that seems to be causing controversy is actually the battle flag of the Army Of Northern Virginia. |
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   Location: SE Louisiana | streakysox - 2015-06-21 4:01 PM
watchpeppydoc - 2015-06-21 2:04 PM
jbhoot - 2015-06-20 3:14 PM RidenFly - 2015-06-20 12:53 PM Mitt Romney and plenty of others see the confederate flag as a racist symbol. Well gee, my grandfather was a mounted calvary officer for the confederacy. I though the civil war was fought for a much deeper reason than just the removal of slavery.
How do you feel about this? Is Mitt right? Mitt is entitled to his opinion it is factual. South Carolina can choose to flay the flag if they wish. But along with that comes the fact that it also reminds many of their racist past. You are correct that the civil war was fought for many reasons primarily states rights but the preservation of slavery and racism was a large part of that battle also.
The Confederate Battle Flag is NOT the state flag of SC. The flag that seems to be causing controversy is actually the battle flag of the Army Of Northern Virginia.
Ummm....???? The controversy is caused because the Confederate flag was not lowered as the rest of them were.
Edited by komet. 2015-06-21 4:17 PM
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confederateflag.jpg (27KB - 158 downloads)
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 Take a Picture
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Go Get Em!
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     Location: OH. IO | We have totally gotten away from the reasons we lower our flag.and that it in itself is a shame. |
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 Take a Picture
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| Sadly, we have gotten where we hàve little respect for each other. OT but coming back from the vet the other day I was in a one lane construction area which had concrete barriers on both sides of the highway. A huge funeral was coming down the other side of the road with the same driving conditions. This hwy is part of an interstate. The truck driver in front of me slowed down to a crawl and the young people behind me were so close I could not see them in my rearview mirror. When they got where they could pass they were running about 90.
This kid that shot those people had hate issues not racial issues. If you notice the ones he shot were mostly over 50. Several over 70. He picked people who could not give him a fight I mean an 87 year old woman come on???? This guy has the same look in his eyes as the guy who shot the people in the movie theater. Lights are on nobody's home. |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas | streakysox - 2015-06-21 3:47 PM
I think it is a flag issue alright but they are looking at the wrong flag. The guy had a picture on Facebook wearing a jacket wih a South African flag and a Rodesian flag, both strongholds for white supremacists. Rodesian is now Zimbabwe. Most Southern states have a Confederate flag flying over their Confederate memorial just as they have an American flag over their WW1 and WW2 memorials, Vietnam, etc.
I was in a Houston library and there was a black man and woman doing genealogical research. I happened to see a book on black Union military units in the Civil War and handed the book to them. They proudly told me that their ancestors served for the South. Needless to say, I was left rather speechless.
About four weeks ago, on my way to school there were three trucks in a row following each other through Marshall TX. One of the trailes said HOOD'S TEXAS BRIGADE. They were obviously reenactors. The truck with sign was driven by a black guy. By the way, TEXAS had its own battle flag.
There are three states that incorporate various civil war battle flags into them anyway. Four if you count TX. It is freedom of speech not a rácial issue.
Many cities have replaced the Confederate battle flag with the 1st National flag anyway. Most people do not have enough knowledge about the Civil War to even know what it is. By the way, it is the true "Stars And Bars"
Chandler showed me some pictures on Instagram of black men with the Confederate flag--one was an older man in a Confederate uniform carrying the flag on a pole and two other pictures were younger men holding the flag in front of them. He also made the comment about black soldiers fighting for Confederacy. . .
ETA you are so right about respect for each other. It infuriates me to see people fly past a funeral procession---I don't care where you're going or how much time you have to get there. That is the last sign of respect we can show the deceased and their family; pull over to the side of the road for those 45 to 60 seconds. Perhaps someone will have the decency to do it for you or your loved ones one day.
Edited by Chandler's Mom 2015-06-21 10:03 PM
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Posts: 4121
   Location: SE Louisiana | Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-21 9:56 PM streakysox - 2015-06-21 3:47 PM I think it is a flag issue alright but they are looking at the wrong flag. The guy had a picture on Facebook wearing a jacket wih a South African flag and a Rodesian flag, both strongholds for white supremacists. Rodesian is now Zimbabwe. Most Southern states have a Confederate flag flying over their Confederate memorial just as they have an American flag over their WW1 and WW2 memorials, Vietnam, etc. I was in a Houston library and there was a black man and woman doing genealogical research. I happened to see a book on black Union military units in the Civil War and handed the book to them. They proudly told me that their ancestors served for the South. Needless to say, I was left rather speechless. About four weeks ago, on my way to school there were three trucks in a row following each other through Marshall TX. One of the trailes said HOOD'S TEXAS BRIGADE. They were obviously reenactors. The truck with sign was driven by a black guy. By the way, TEXAS had its own battle flag. There are three states that incorporate various civil war battle flags into them anyway. Four if you count TX. It is freedom of speech not a rácial issue. Many cities have replaced the Confederate battle flag with the 1st National flag anyway. Most people do not have enough knowledge about the Civil War to even know what it is. By the way, it is the true "Stars And Bars" Chandler showed me some pictures on Instagram of black men with the Confederate flag--one was an older man in a Confederate uniform carrying the flag on a pole and two other pictures were younger men holding the flag in front of them. He also made the comment about black soldiers fighting for Confederacy. . . ETA you are so right about respect for each other. It infuriates me to see people fly past a funeral procession---I don't care where you're going or how much time you have to get there. That is the last sign of respect we can show the deceased and their family; pull over to the side of the road for those 45 to 60 seconds. Perhaps someone will have the decency to do it for you or your loved ones one day.
I remember reading about this happening, but I don't recall the conditions that went with it. I do remember there were special conditions when that took place. It's such an old memory it might have been something I read back in the early 80s by John Jakes.
Edited by komet. 2015-06-21 10:14 PM
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
       
| komet. - 2015-06-21 10:11 PM
Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-21 9:56 PM streakysox - 2015-06-21 3:47 PM I think it is a flag issue alright but they are looking at the wrong flag. The guy had a picture on Facebook wearing a jacket wih a South African flag and a Rodesian flag, both strongholds for white supremacists. Rodesian is now Zimbabwe. Most Southern states have a Confederate flag flying over their Confederate memorial just as they have an American flag over their WW1 and WW2 memorials, Vietnam, etc. I was in a Houston library and there was a black man and woman doing genealogical research. I happened to see a book on black Union military units in the Civil War and handed the book to them. They proudly told me that their ancestors served for the South. Needless to say, I was left rather speechless. About four weeks ago, on my way to school there were three trucks in a row following each other through Marshall TX. One of the trailes said HOOD'S TEXAS BRIGADE. They were obviously reenactors. The truck with sign was driven by a black guy. By the way, TEXAS had its own battle flag. There are three states that incorporate various civil war battle flags into them anyway. Four if you count TX. It is freedom of speech not a rácial issue. Many cities have replaced the Confederate battle flag with the 1st National flag anyway. Most people do not have enough knowledge about the Civil War to even know what it is. By the way, it is the true "Stars And Bars" Chandler showed me some pictures on Instagram of black men with the Confederate flag--one was an older man in a Confederate uniform carrying the flag on a pole and two other pictures were younger men holding the flag in front of them. He also made the comment about black soldiers fighting for Confederacy. . . ETA you are so right about respect for each other. It infuriates me to see people fly past a funeral procession---I don't care where you're going or how much time you have to get there. That is the last sign of respect we can show the deceased and their family; pull over to the side of the road for those 45 to 60 seconds. Perhaps someone will have the decency to do it for you or your loved ones one day.
I remember reading about this happening, but I don't recall the conditions that went with it. I do remember there were special conditions when that took place. It's such an old memory it might have been something I read back in the early 80s by John Jakes.
I do a LOT of genealogy work and have for the past 20 years or so. My family is nearly all from the South. The only people in my family that had slaves lived in Connecticut. I had a bunch of relatives that fought in the Civil War. Many were Germans from New Orleans. They were in the sanitary corp. They dug latrines. Well, somebody had to do it. If you want to see how blacks were treated by the Union Army, wàtch the movie GLORY. True story.
Edited by streakysox 2015-06-21 10:39 PM
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas | streakysox - 2015-06-21 10:35 PM
komet. - 2015-06-21 10:11 PM
Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-21 9:56 PM streakysox - 2015-06-21 3:47 PM I think it is a flag issue alright but they are looking at the wrong flag. The guy had a picture on Facebook wearing a jacket wih a South African flag and a Rodesian flag, both strongholds for white supremacists. Rodesian is now Zimbabwe. Most Southern states have a Confederate flag flying over their Confederate memorial just as they have an American flag over their WW1 and WW2 memorials, Vietnam, etc. I was in a Houston library and there was a black man and woman doing genealogical research. I happened to see a book on black Union military units in the Civil War and handed the book to them. They proudly told me that their ancestors served for the South. Needless to say, I was left rather speechless. About four weeks ago, on my way to school there were three trucks in a row following each other through Marshall TX. One of the trailes said HOOD'S TEXAS BRIGADE. They were obviously reenactors. The truck with sign was driven by a black guy. By the way, TEXAS had its own battle flag. There are three states that incorporate various civil war battle flags into them anyway. Four if you count TX. It is freedom of speech not a rácial issue. Many cities have replaced the Confederate battle flag with the 1st National flag anyway. Most people do not have enough knowledge about the Civil War to even know what it is. By the way, it is the true "Stars And Bars" Chandler showed me some pictures on Instagram of black men with the Confederate flag--one was an older man in a Confederate uniform carrying the flag on a pole and two other pictures were younger men holding the flag in front of them. He also made the comment about black soldiers fighting for Confederacy. . . ETA you are so right about respect for each other. It infuriates me to see people fly past a funeral procession---I don't care where you're going or how much time you have to get there. That is the last sign of respect we can show the deceased and their family; pull over to the side of the road for those 45 to 60 seconds. Perhaps someone will have the decency to do it for you or your loved ones one day.
I remember reading about this happening, but I don't recall the conditions that went with it. I do remember there were special conditions when that took place. It's such an old memory it might have been something I read back in the early 80s by John Jakes.
I do a LOT of genealogy work and have for the past 20 years or so. My family is nearly all from the South. The only people in my family that had slaves lived in Connecticut. I had a bunch of relatives that fought in the Civil War. Many were Germans from New Orleans. They were in the sanitary corp. They dug latrines. Well, somebody had to do it. If you want to see how blacks were treated by the Union Army, wàtch the movie GLORY. True story.
I asked him how he knew all this and he said "books, Momma, I read"!!! He loves the South and the Civil War and all the history that goes with it. When he was really young I would buy books about the southern generals and battles for him. When the merchant would ask who I was buying it for and I told them my 9 year old, they almost laughed at me. . . I was just always proud. And I still am. |
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 Extreme Veteran
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    Location: Texas!! | Chandler's Mom, has your son seen the videos by Shelby Foote "the Civil War: a narrative" ? They are very interesting |
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Posts: 4121
   Location: SE Louisiana | Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-21 10:45 PM
streakysox - 2015-06-21 10:35 PM
komet. - 2015-06-21 10:11 PM
Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-21 9:56 PM streakysox - 2015-06-21 3:47 PM I think it is a flag issue alright but they are looking at the wrong flag. The guy had a picture on Facebook wearing a jacket wih a South African flag and a Rodesian flag, both strongholds for white supremacists. Rodesian is now Zimbabwe. Most Southern states have a Confederate flag flying over their Confederate memorial just as they have an American flag over their WW1 and WW2 memorials, Vietnam, etc. I was in a Houston library and there was a black man and woman doing genealogical research. I happened to see a book on black Union military units in the Civil War and handed the book to them. They proudly told me that their ancestors served for the South. Needless to say, I was left rather speechless. About four weeks ago, on my way to school there were three trucks in a row following each other through Marshall TX. One of the trailes said HOOD'S TEXAS BRIGADE. They were obviously reenactors. The truck with sign was driven by a black guy. By the way, TEXAS had its own battle flag. There are three states that incorporate various civil war battle flags into them anyway. Four if you count TX. It is freedom of speech not a rácial issue. Many cities have replaced the Confederate battle flag with the 1st National flag anyway. Most people do not have enough knowledge about the Civil War to even know what it is. By the way, it is the true "Stars And Bars" Chandler showed me some pictures on Instagram of black men with the Confederate flag--one was an older man in a Confederate uniform carrying the flag on a pole and two other pictures were younger men holding the flag in front of them. He also made the comment about black soldiers fighting for Confederacy. . . ETA you are so right about respect for each other. It infuriates me to see people fly past a funeral procession---I don't care where you're going or how much time you have to get there. That is the last sign of respect we can show the deceased and their family; pull over to the side of the road for those 45 to 60 seconds. Perhaps someone will have the decency to do it for you or your loved ones one day.
I remember reading about this happening, but I don't recall the conditions that went with it. I do remember there were special conditions when that took place. It's such an old memory it might have been something I read back in the early 80s by John Jakes.
I do a LOT of genealogy work and have for the past 20 years or so. My family is nearly all from the South. The only people in my family that had slaves lived in Connecticut. I had a bunch of relatives that fought in the Civil War. Many were Germans from New Orleans. They were in the sanitary corp. They dug latrines. Well, somebody had to do it. If you want to see how blacks were treated by the Union Army, wàtch the movie GLORY. True story.
I asked him how he knew all this and he said "books, Momma, I read"!!! He loves the South and the Civil War and all the history that goes with it. When he was really young I would buy books about the southern generals and battles for him. When the merchant would ask who I was buying it for and I told them my 9 year old, they almost laughed at me. . . I was just always proud. And I still am.
I recommend to him the John Jakes Bicentennial series. aka The Kent Family Chronicles... Good stuff... |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas | Thanks Rodeodelux and Komet----I have just added to my "Chandler purchase list"! He's 17 but started his own catfish farming operation last year, so he's up at night and can use these suggestions between his oxygen checks. |
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 BHW's Lance Armstrong 
Posts: 11134
     Location: Somewhere between S@% stirrer and Saint | fatchance - 2015-06-20 4:25 PM Known as the battle flag. It has served no purpose but to divide ever since. The KKK likes it for a reason.
Oh my hell I actually agree with fatchance! |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
          Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-21 9:56 PM streakysox - 2015-06-21 3:47 PM I think it is a flag issue alright but they are looking at the wrong flag. The guy had a picture on Facebook wearing a jacket wih a South African flag and a Rodesian flag, both strongholds for white supremacists. Rodesian is now Zimbabwe. Most Southern states have a Confederate flag flying over their Confederate memorial just as they have an American flag over their WW1 and WW2 memorials, Vietnam, etc. I was in a Houston library and there was a black man and woman doing genealogical research. I happened to see a book on black Union military units in the Civil War and handed the book to them. They proudly told me that their ancestors served for the South. Needless to say, I was left rather speechless. About four weeks ago, on my way to school there were three trucks in a row following each other through Marshall TX. One of the trailes said HOOD'S TEXAS BRIGADE. They were obviously reenactors. The truck with sign was driven by a black guy. By the way, TEXAS had its own battle flag. There are three states that incorporate various civil war battle flags into them anyway. Four if you count TX. It is freedom of speech not a rácial issue. Many cities have replaced the Confederate battle flag with the 1st National flag anyway. Most people do not have enough knowledge about the Civil War to even know what it is. By the way, it is the true "Stars And Bars" Chandler showed me some pictures on Instagram of black men with the Confederate flag--one was an older man in a Confederate uniform carrying the flag on a pole and two other pictures were younger men holding the flag in front of them. He also made the comment about black soldiers fighting for Confederacy. . . ETA you are so right about respect for each other. It infuriates me to see people fly past a funeral procession---I don't care where you're going or how much time you have to get there. That is the last sign of respect we can show the deceased and their family; pull over to the side of the road for those 45 to 60 seconds. Perhaps someone will have the decency to do it for you or your loved ones one day.
If you haven't visited, you need to go to the civil war museum in the Park hotel in Hot Springs. The man in there is very knowledgeable and loves to talk to people. Tons and tons of books and memorabilia.
Speaking of genealogy research, I was able to trace one of my family lines back to pre-Reveolutionary War in NC. Once of my ancestors moved from the Goshen Swamp area in the 1790s to the Cumberland area of TN. He had several hundred acres and slaves there. When he died around 1830, he freed them all, and left land to 4 of them. I thought that was pretty cool that he did that and from reading, I get the idea it wasn't that unusual. |
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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
        Location: Broxton, Ga | Nevertooold - 2015-06-19 6:44 PM Here's a novel idea...How about instead of worrying about flags..we demand that the people in government quit lying and are held liable for their lies? Harry Reid knew he was lying about Romney not paying taxes and his answer was when he was asked.."He didn't win, did he?" It's all about getting the end result they want instead of getting what is best for our country and they will lie and cheat to get it and we the people aren't suppose to be ticked off.
They bash Trump for having money but think it's great that Hillary does. Could you imagine Hillary spending a dime on her on campaign? LOL
Just an FYI..It was the Democratic party that formed the KKK but when they figured out they needed the black vote is when they separated themselves from it. Just another day in the life of a liberal. Do what you have to do to get the result you want.
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 Knowledge is Power
Posts: 4051
    Location: wherever my daughter's running | I live in SC. Very proud of our state in the way they are handling a horrible, senseless, tragedy. There has been no hate rioting, destorying of police vehicles, or burning of businesses. Too much good for some to handle so grab the low hanging fruit - the flag and gun control. I am a direct desendant of SC Governor Gist's second wife. Long family line of family ties to that era in histroy. It was a very different time. The flag was not placed on our state capital right after the war - it was placed there when segregation began in the South in the early sixties. That is my issues with the flying - not the flag itself - but the time it was placed on our capital. It wa to have been flown for 1 year - apparently someone forgot to take it down. Take it down or leave it up - it will not change the hate in anyone's heart. There are also pictures of the individual that took 9 beautiful lives visiting a confederate museum in upstate SC. Will the museum be closed? Will those who make money off the confederate flag sold on clothing, patches. license plates, the flag, etc. be ordered to close down. I can go along with taking it down and putting it in a museum - but as I said earlier - I don't think it change the hatred in peoples hearts. Our Governonr is scheduled to hold a news conference this afternoon. It is anticipated it will be about the flag. Apparently there in a loophole that will allow for it to taken down within 10 days by tying it onto our state budget which has yet to a approved. Will be interesting to see what she has to say. |
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 Knowledge is Power
Posts: 4051
    Location: wherever my daughter's running | Governor Haley called for the removal of the Confederate Flag from the state house grounds. Will be up for vote. Pretty sure it is on its way down.
Edited by cruise 2015-06-22 3:54 PM
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | cruise - 2015-06-22 3:29 PM Governor Hailey called for the removal of the Confederate Flag from the state house grounds. Will be up for vote. Pretty sure it is on its way down.
I wonder what will be next? |
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Veteran
Posts: 120

| Nevertooold - 2015-06-20 1:50 PM
Mitt is wrong. It's about Southern Pride.
Mitt sure has a lot to say now that he isn't running. What a joke. He needed to stand up when he was running instead of backing down like a whipped pup and handing the election over to Obama.
Really??? Southern pride?
You need to do some research on the confederate flag. It has nothing to do with "Southern Pride".......the flag that is being flown is a symbol of hatred and racism. The flag that is being flown is the battle flag......
Mitt is dead on and they should be removed |
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 Strong Willed Woman
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      Location: Prosser, WA | I can see both sides of this. But really this can keep going. What if people from the south start saying that the USA flag is insulting. I mean the US army carried it when defeating the Confederates. People in the northern states also owned slaves. But I wouldn't want to have to change it. |
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 Accident Prone
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          Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | kakbarrelracer - 2015-06-22 4:04 PM I can see both sides of this. But really this can keep going. What if people from the south start saying that the USA flag is insulting. I mean the US army carried it when defeating the Confederates. People in the northern states also owned slaves. But I wouldn't want to have to change it.
The flag means what you think it means. Some people display it out of southern pride, some because they think it's badass, some use it to signify their hate. You could say the same about most symbols. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-22 4:09 PM kakbarrelracer - 2015-06-22 4:04 PM I can see both sides of this. But really this can keep going. What if people from the south start saying that the USA flag is insulting. I mean the US army carried it when defeating the Confederates. People in the northern states also owned slaves. But I wouldn't want to have to change it. The flag means what you think it means. Some people display it out of southern pride, some because they think it's badass, some use it to signify their hate. You could say the same about most symbols.
Exactly. |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
          Location: Bastrop, Texas | OK so it looks like the flag is coming down. I feel so much better now.....this means we are less racist. This will save lives. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
   
| Ban historically significant flag and worship a BS rainbow flag.
The new America.  |
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Common Sense and then some
         Location: So. California | cruise - 2015-06-22 9:36 AM I live in SC. Very proud of our state in the way they are handling a horrible, senseless, tragedy. There has been no hate rioting, destorying of police vehicles, or burning of businesses. Too much good for some to handle so grab the low hanging fruit - the flag and gun control. I am a direct desendant of SC Governor Gist's second wife. Long family line of family ties to that era in histroy. It was a very different time. The flag was not placed on our state capital right after the war - it was placed there when segregation began in the South in the early sixties. That is my issues with the flying - not the flag itself - but the time it was placed on our capital. It wa to have been flown for 1 year - apparently someone forgot to take it down. Take it down or leave it up - it will not change the hate in anyone's heart. There are also pictures of the individual that took 9 beautiful lives visiting a confederate museum in upstate SC. Will the museum be closed? Will those who make money off the confederate flag sold on clothing, patches. license plates, the flag, etc. be ordered to close down. I can go along with taking it down and putting it in a museum - but as I said earlier - I don't think it change the hatred in peoples hearts. Our Governonr is scheduled to hold a news conference this afternoon. It is anticipated it will be about the flag. Apparently there in a loophole that will allow for it to taken down within 10 days by tying it onto our state budget which has yet to a approved. Will be interesting to see what she has to say.
Thank you for the clarification of the flag...
I agree, the people of SC have handled this tragedy with dignity and grace. They have risen above the rhetoric and have shown TRUE southern pride. You should be proud of your state. 
If the national politicians would only follow their example.... |
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   Location: SE Louisiana | cruise - 2015-06-22 3:29 PM
Governor Haley called for the removal of the Confederate Flag from the state house grounds. Will be up for vote. Pretty sure it is on its way down.
Ya know what? If they leave it to a popular vote I bet it stays. |
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Expert
Posts: 1336
     Location: Central Arkansas | I hope the flag does stay. I see it as a symbol of the south. I don't see anything
racist about it. Mentally ill people will still get guns and kill people. It doesn't
matter whether a certain flag is flying or not. |
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 Strong Willed Woman
Posts: 6577
      Location: Prosser, WA | Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-22 2:09 PM
kakbarrelracer - 2015-06-22 4:04 PM I can see both sides of this. But really this can keep going. What if people from the south start saying that the USA flag is insulting. I mean the US army carried it when defeating the Confederates. People in the northern states also owned slaves. But I wouldn't want to have to change it.
The flag means what you think it means. Some people display it out of southern pride, some because they think it's badass, some use it to signify their hate. You could say the same about most symbols.
I see your point and you can make many of the same arguments to get rid of the USA flag. |
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 Knowledge is Power
Posts: 4051
    Location: wherever my daughter's running | Thank you Anniemae. Nevertoold - I"m not sure what will be next. Wal-Mart is pulling all Confederate items off its shelves. I didn't know they had any. Obama is coming to Charleston Friday to deliver the eulogy for Senator/Reverend Pinckney. It will take a two-thirds vote of the lawmakers in Columbia to remove the flag. It was a Dem. Governor that put the flag on the Capital building in the 60"s. I am sure the debate on the Senate floor will be lively. News is forgotten quickly. This is the same county in SC that very quickly arrested and charged a white police officer with the murder of a black man. People of both races supported this as it was clearly wrong. As for the 9 innocent people that sadly lost their lives at the hands of evil removing the flag will not stop the next evil person anymore than gun control will. Politicians are picking the low hanging fruit and running with it. Please pray for our state in the days ahead.Edited to add that the x-officer that shot the black man and the evil that murdered the 9 are in the same jail in cells that are side by side.
Edited by cruise 2015-06-22 7:58 PM
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 Famous for Not Complaining
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        Location: Broxton, Ga | Bear - 2015-06-21 6:19 PM
OK so it looks like the flag is coming down. I feel so much better now.....this means we are less racist. This will save lives.
Plus Walmart is now going to stop selling Confederate flags etc .....oh yea this is really going to fix America. |
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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
        Location: Broxton, Ga | What irks me is its racism of whites toward blacks only......really do we believe blacks are not racist....oh I forgot their entitled to racism since they were slaves. If one reads Roofs manifesto it appears he was driven a lot from what he saw starting with the Trevor Martin case remember and how it was a white on black crime....and how the media played that....white on black crime when in reality black on black and black on white crime exceeds that's not how it's spun from the media to the White House. Maybe a few need to look at what they are saying that fuels the hate......starting at the top. |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
          Location: Bastrop, Texas | So I wonder what will be next. What about the Mississippi state flag? What about the states with "Stars and Bars" flags like Texas and Georgia? Wasn't the Stars and Bars the real flag of the Confederacy? |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
      
| Bear - 2015-06-22 10:00 PM
So I wonder what will be next. What about the Mississippi state flag? What about the states with "Stars and Bars" flags like Texas and Georgia? Wasn't the Stars and Bars the real flag of the Confederacy?
Stars and Bars was the first flag of the Confederacy. There where two other national flags that followed. |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
           Location: Florida.. | why does obama ignore when white gets killed yet he speaks at this.. ..and yes I believe now that this happened removing the confederate flag.. the american flag will be protested to be removed by muslims |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas | Nevertooold - 2015-06-22 3:55 PM
cruise - 2015-06-22 3:29 PM Governor Hailey called for the removal of the Confederate Flag from the state house grounds. Will be up for vote. Pretty sure it is on its way down.
I wonder what will be next?
Exactly----where does it all stop? What rights, what freedoms, what simple parts of being free Americans will go next? I am willing to bet if that flag goes down from the capitol, it won't save a single life next time somebody decides to go on a rampage like this. I know different people look at the flag differently, but I don't see how this will fix the much bigger problem our country is facing.
And I agree that the state deserves kudos for the way the people have handled things. |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas | Bear - 2015-06-22 10:00 PM
So I wonder what will be next. What about the Mississippi state flag? What about the states with "Stars and Bars" flags like Texas and Georgia? Wasn't the Stars and Bars the real flag of the Confederacy?
Yes it was and I wonder how many folks would recognize it if they saw it? |
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
   Location: SE Louisiana | Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-22 10:44 PM
Bear - 2015-06-22 10:00 PM
So I wonder what will be next. What about the Mississippi state flag? What about the states with "Stars and Bars" flags like Texas and Georgia? Wasn't the Stars and Bars the real flag of the Confederacy?
Yes it was and I wonder how many folks would recognize it if they saw it?
Just in case...
(Flag_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America_(1861-1863).jpg)
Attachments ----------------
Flag_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America_(1861-1863).jpg (17KB - 170 downloads)
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
          Location: Bastrop, Texas | Exactly.....anyone care to take a guess what the response by Texans will be the minute people start calling for a flag change? It's obviously a knockoff of the Confederate flag. I wouldn't be surprised to see these other flags become focal points. I highly doubt Texas would cave to any pressure under any circumstances.
We have to realize that there are powerful forces whose goal it is to race bait at every opportunity. Right now flags like the Texas state flag is not a "symbol" of racism......but that can be changed. |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas | kakbarrelracer - 2015-06-22 7:33 PM
Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-22 2:09 PM
kakbarrelracer - 2015-06-22 4:04 PM I can see both sides of this. But really this can keep going. What if people from the south start saying that the USA flag is insulting. I mean the US army carried it when defeating the Confederates. People in the northern states also owned slaves. But I wouldn't want to have to change it.
The flag means what you think it means. Some people display it out of southern pride, some because they think it's badass, some use it to signify their hate. You could say the same about most symbols.
I see your point and you can make many of the same arguments to get rid of the USA flag.
Did the U.S. flag fly over the Japanese internment camps? I mean if we're talking oppression. . . . |
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 Knowledge is Power
Posts: 4051
    Location: wherever my daughter's running | Not specific to the flag but the tragedy. Based on what the article says this is a knee jerk reaction that ruined a man's career. http://www.foxcarolina.com/story/29381345/former-mabank-firefighter... |
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Veteran
Posts: 120

| Racism in this world will never go away. Unfortunately it has been made worse by the current administration. We do however need to take steps everyday amongst ourselves to change what we can change. Any positive step in the right direction undermines the media and the powers that be to keep racism alive. Removing the confederate "battle" flag is a huge step in the right direction. Regardless of what most people believe, the battle flag is not a symbol of Southern Pride, unless of course you believe in segregation and stand with the KKK. If you don't, then support removing it. Take a minute to do some research into the battle flag.
We need to stop the division in this country...we need to stand up to racism. And yes, that includes racism against whites. |
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   Location: SE Louisiana | Bear - 2015-06-22 10:00 PM
So I wonder what will be next. What about the Mississippi state flag? What about the states with "Stars and Bars" flags like Texas and Georgia? Wasn't the Stars and Bars the real flag of the Confederacy?
Here are the top 5 state flags they are going after now...
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/confederate-flag-furor/flags-some-... |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | komet. - 2015-06-23 1:31 PM Bear - 2015-06-22 10:00 PM So I wonder what will be next. What about the Mississippi state flag? What about the states with "Stars and Bars" flags like Texas and Georgia? Wasn't the Stars and Bars the real flag of the Confederacy? Here are the top 5 state flags they are going after now... http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/confederate-flag-furor/flags-some-...
The biggest joke is the ones that cry about racism are in fact the people that are the biggest racists. |
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Expert
Posts: 1343
     Location: East Texas | I had to share this post from FB from a good friend who is in the bail bonding business:
I have been working in the bail bond business for 15 years. Every person that is bonded out by any of our bondsmen has a file. I make that file and I enter all information into the computer so I can safely say I have entered all of the information pertaining to those individuals and at least 3 other individuals per each person they name as references for the said last 15 years. So I am sure I could be considered more or less an expert on bonding. I can swear in a court of law, under oath in front of anyone who cares to listen that WE have NEVER bonded a Handgun, pistol, rifle, shotgun, Confederate Flag, Stars and Bars, or any other flag by any other name, out of jail. Nor have we ever bonded a bottle of gin, whiskey, vodka, scotch, or bourbon out. We have never bonded meth, pot, pills, coke, or any other drug out of jail. Now if you want to know if we have bonded PEOPLE, HUMANS, MEN, WOMEN, OLD, YOUNG, WHITE, BLACK, HISPANIC, ASIAN, EUROPEAN, etc.... we can talk about that too. But, I would be willing to guess no one will hold a press conference, congressional meeting, or a legislative meeting in order to hear me talk about it. |
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   Location: SE Louisiana | horsesinharleton - 2015-06-23 3:47 PM
I had to share this post from FB from a good friend who is in the bail bonding business:
I have been working in the bail bond business for 15 years. Every person that is bonded out by any of our bondsmen has a file. I make that file and I enter all information into the computer so I can safely say I have entered all of the information pertaining to those individuals and at least 3 other individuals per each person they name as references for the said last 15 years. So I am sure I could be considered more or less an expert on bonding. I can swear in a court of law, under oath in front of anyone who cares to listen that WE have NEVER bonded a Handgun, pistol, rifle, shotgun, Confederate Flag, Stars and Bars, or any other flag by any other name, out of jail. Nor have we ever bonded a bottle of gin, whiskey, vodka, scotch, or bourbon out. We have never bonded meth, pot, pills, coke, or any other drug out of jail. Now if you want to know if we have bonded PEOPLE, HUMANS, MEN, WOMEN, OLD, YOUNG, WHITE, BLACK, HISPANIC, ASIAN, EUROPEAN, etc.... we can talk about that too. But, I would be willing to guess no one will hold a press conference, congressional meeting, or a legislative meeting in order to hear me talk about it.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you've never bonded a vehicle out for enabling a drunk driver or having too much ethanol in the tank.
Edited by komet. 2015-06-23 3:58 PM
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     Location: East Texas | Yep... funny how it always comes back around to the terrible choices PEOPLE make and NOT the tool or fixation others want to blame on the terrible choices PEOPLE make. |
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Veteran
Posts: 120

| komet. - 2015-06-23 3:57 PM
horsesinharleton - 2015-06-23 3:47 PM
I had to share this post from FB from a good friend who is in the bail bonding business:
I have been working in the bail bond business for 15 years. Every person that is bonded out by any of our bondsmen has a file. I make that file and I enter all information into the computer so I can safely say I have entered all of the information pertaining to those individuals and at least 3 other individuals per each person they name as references for the said last 15 years. So I am sure I could be considered more or less an expert on bonding. I can swear in a court of law, under oath in front of anyone who cares to listen that WE have NEVER bonded a Handgun, pistol, rifle, shotgun, Confederate Flag, Stars and Bars, or any other flag by any other name, out of jail. Nor have we ever bonded a bottle of gin, whiskey, vodka, scotch, or bourbon out. We have never bonded meth, pot, pills, coke, or any other drug out of jail. Now if you want to know if we have bonded PEOPLE, HUMANS, MEN, WOMEN, OLD, YOUNG, WHITE, BLACK, HISPANIC, ASIAN, EUROPEAN, etc.... we can talk about that too. But, I would be willing to guess no one will hold a press conference, congressional meeting, or a legislative meeting in order to hear me talk about it.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you've never bonded a vehicle out for enabling a drunk driver or having too much ethanol in the tank.
Although I think this post is great and I agree with it wholeheartedly.....I can't help but feel you are missing the point completely when it comes to the confederate battle flag that is being flown in courthouses and used as a symbol by many. It is true to say that a confederate flag never killed anyone, however it is a still a symbol of hate and racism. We are better than that. Our Country is better than that. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
          Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | banjomia - 2015-06-23 4:43 PM komet. - 2015-06-23 3:57 PM horsesinharleton - 2015-06-23 3:47 PM I had to share this post from FB from a good friend who is in the bail bonding business: I have been working in the bail bond business for 15 years. Every person that is bonded out by any of our bondsmen has a file. I make that file and I enter all information into the computer so I can safely say I have entered all of the information pertaining to those individuals and at least 3 other individuals per each person they name as references for the said last 15 years. So I am sure I could be considered more or less an expert on bonding. I can swear in a court of law, under oath in front of anyone who cares to listen that WE have NEVER bonded a Handgun, pistol, rifle, shotgun, Confederate Flag, Stars and Bars, or any other flag by any other name, out of jail. Nor have we ever bonded a bottle of gin, whiskey, vodka, scotch, or bourbon out. We have never bonded meth, pot, pills, coke, or any other drug out of jail. Now if you want to know if we have bonded PEOPLE, HUMANS, MEN, WOMEN, OLD, YOUNG, WHITE, BLACK, HISPANIC, ASIAN, EUROPEAN, etc.... we can talk about that too. But, I would be willing to guess no one will hold a press conference, congressional meeting, or a legislative meeting in order to hear me talk about it. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you've never bonded a vehicle out for enabling a drunk driver or having too much ethanol in the tank. Although I think this post is great and I agree with it wholeheartedly.....I can't help but feel you are missing the point completely when it comes to the confederate battle flag that is being flown in courthouses and used as a symbol by many. It is true to say that a confederate flag never killed anyone, however it is a still a symbol of hate and racism. We are better than that. Our Country is better than that.
It's a symbol of hate and racism TO SOME PEOPLE. Not everyone perceives it that way, not even black folks. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | So now the liberals are going to re-write history. I bet a bunch of them are so happy they are peeing in their pants.
Edited by Nevertooold 2015-06-24 10:18 PM
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas | Nevertooold - 2015-06-23 2:41 PM
komet. - 2015-06-23 1:31 PM Bear - 2015-06-22 10:00 PM So I wonder what will be next. What about the Mississippi state flag? What about the states with "Stars and Bars" flags like Texas and Georgia? Wasn't the Stars and Bars the real flag of the Confederacy? Here are the top 5 state flags they are going after now... http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/confederate-flag-furor/flags-some-...
The biggest joke is the ones that cry about racism are in fact the people that are the biggest racists.
Heaven help, maybe all the states should make the federal government (and others apparently ) happy by just flying a white flag of surrender. . . . |
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 Strong Willed Woman
Posts: 6577
      Location: Prosser, WA | Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-23 10:32 PM
Nevertooold - 2015-06-23 2:41 PM
komet. - 2015-06-23 1:31 PM Bear - 2015-06-22 10:00 PM So I wonder what will be next. What about the Mississippi state flag? What about the states with "Stars and Bars" flags like Texas and Georgia? Wasn't the Stars and Bars the real flag of the Confederacy? Here are the top 5 state flags they are going after now... http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/confederate-flag-furor/flags-some-...
The biggest joke is the ones that cry about racism are in fact the people that are the biggest racists.
Heaven help, maybe all the states should make the federal government (and others apparently ) happy by just flying a white flag of surrender. . . .
That would probably be racist. A "white" flag. : )
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
          Location: Bastrop, Texas | Liberals love going after symbols...... Especially if it can rally gullible sheep and work them into a frenzy and strengthen their power base. This whole incident is an excellent illustration of a "progressive" Saul Alinski precept: "Never let a good crisis to waste." If you think about it, over the years this is exactly what they have done and it works to their advantage. Why is it that people don't see through their tactics? I wish some conservative leader would really focus in on calling them out on this kind of thing on a national stage. |
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          Location: Kentucky | http://www.theverge.com/2015/6/23/8836571/dukes-of-hazzard-car-toys-confederate-flag |
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Posts: 669
    Location: Central Texas | copied this from another poster and I agree but most people just choose to be dumb enough not to know the difference. People just have to disagree about somthing, it's in our nature.
" It is freedom of speech not a rácial issue"
With all the other really important issues going on in this world, some people pick some of the strangest things to try and make issues out of.
It is a symbol and means many different things to many different people. Who am I or anyone else for that matter to say another person's feelings about it are wrong or unimportant. People who are requesting it be taken down or banned are just as guilty of discrimination. Either way, it makes no difference to me. |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
     Location: In The Land of Cotton | The Alabama Governor just had the Confederate Flag removed from the grounds at the Capitol. In SC they could not remove the flag unless there is legislative action. However, in AL the Governor can if they want to, so he did.
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 Knowledge is Power
Posts: 4051
    Location: wherever my daughter's running | 3canstorun - 2015-06-24 12:10 PM The Alabama Governor just had the Confederate Flag removed from the grounds at the Capitol. In SC they could not remove the flag unless there is legislative action. However, in AL the Governor can if they want to, so he did.
That flag and anything associated with it is being jerked off shelves, removed from the internet, cars, flag poles etc. Governor Haley was asked to remove if from the statre house grounds today as Senator Pinckeny's body is lying in state there. The 2000 law states the flag may be taken down by the Governoe of SC for repairs. People were asking her to do just that. She did not, stating since there were no repairs needed she would be breaking the law. |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas | kakbarrelracer - 2015-06-24 2:39 AM
Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-23 10:32 PM
Nevertooold - 2015-06-23 2:41 PM
komet. - 2015-06-23 1:31 PM Bear - 2015-06-22 10:00 PM So I wonder what will be next. What about the Mississippi state flag? What about the states with "Stars and Bars" flags like Texas and Georgia? Wasn't the Stars and Bars the real flag of the Confederacy? Here are the top 5 state flags they are going after now... http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/confederate-flag-furor/flags-some-...
The biggest joke is the ones that cry about racism are in fact the people that are the biggest racists.
Heaven help, maybe all the states should make the federal government (and others apparently ) happy by just flying a white flag of surrender. . . .
That would probably be racist. A "white" flag. : )
That's hilarious!!!! |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
           Location: Florida.. | so all this is happening because some pathetic monstor boy walked in and shot 9 people.. |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas | Just when I think I have heard it all on this subject and can't be shocked anymore on some of the ignorance, I hear something new and my mouth drops. |
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Posts: 669
    Location: Central Texas | Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-25 1:00 AM
Just when I think I have heard it all on this subject and can't be shocked anymore on some of the ignorance, I hear something new and my mouth drops.
I agree. I think this has absolutely and totally gotten out of hand. The time and energy spent on this is unreal and could be used to do so much more good. It's time to give it a rest and move on to something really important. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
          Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-25 1:00 AM Just when I think I have heard it all on this subject and can't be shocked anymore on some of the ignorance, I hear something new and my mouth drops.
I saw a cartoon last night inferring the confederacy was akin to nazi germany. Really, people? That is disgusting. |
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Veteran
Posts: 120

| I am a staunch conservative and I struggle with the fact that no one recognizes the confederate battle flag as a symbol of racism. I am a bit shocked at what I read on these posts. I see an immediate stance of defiance and defense. I get that as it seems lately all we see and hear about is crimes committed against blacks by whites and all other crimes are blatantly ignored. I agree its out of control and it makes me ****ed off with resentment and wonder why our current administration and the lame stream media continues to divide our country......
BUT, The confederate battle flag was used as symbol of opposition to the civil rights act. That is a well known fact. It was adopted by both the KKK and the Dixiecrats. I completely understand why it is being asked to be removed. It is long over due. Symbols of racism do not belong anywhere.. |
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Veteran
Posts: 120

| The flag has no meaning "regardless" of politics, or above politics; its heritage is not exempt from history. Anyone can interpret anything any way they want, but if they claim historical sanction for their interpretation, then they'd best be accurate. And in that sense, history is clear: There is no revolutionary cause associated with the flag, other than the right for Southern states to determine how best to subjugate black people and to perpetuate slavery. |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
     Location: In The Land of Cotton | I put this on the Bill O'Reilly thread but people all of this is getting crazy - if we don't think America has a problem - and there isn't going to be some kind of uproar - you have your head stuck in the sand.
http://nypost.com/2015/06/24/gone-with-the-wind-should-go-the-way-of-the-confederate-flag/
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 Midget Lover
          Location: Kentucky | banjomia - 2015-06-25 1:14 PM I am a staunch conservative and I struggle with the fact that no one recognizes the confederate battle flag as a symbol of racism. I am a bit shocked at what I read on these posts. I see an immediate stance of defiance and defense. I get that as it seems lately all we see and hear about is crimes committed against blacks by whites and all other crimes are blatantly ignored. I agree its out of control and it makes me ****ed off with resentment and wonder why our current administration and the lame stream media continues to divide our country...... BUT, The confederate battle flag was used as symbol of opposition to the civil rights act. That is a well known fact. It was adopted by both the KKK and the Dixiecrats. I completely understand why it is being asked to be removed. It is long over due. Symbols of racism do not belong anywhere..
KKK also carried the US flag. Should that be banned also?
It's a slippery slope. Where are lines drawn? Do we ban anything and everything offensive? |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
     Location: In The Land of Cotton | Murphy - 2015-06-25 1:57 PM banjomia - 2015-06-25 1:14 PM I am a staunch conservative and I struggle with the fact that no one recognizes the confederate battle flag as a symbol of racism. I am a bit shocked at what I read on these posts. I see an immediate stance of defiance and defense. I get that as it seems lately all we see and hear about is crimes committed against blacks by whites and all other crimes are blatantly ignored. I agree its out of control and it makes me ****ed off with resentment and wonder why our current administration and the lame stream media continues to divide our country...... BUT, The confederate battle flag was used as symbol of opposition to the civil rights act. That is a well known fact. It was adopted by both the KKK and the Dixiecrats. I completely understand why it is being asked to be removed. It is long over due. Symbols of racism do not belong anywhere.. KKK also carried the US flag. Should that be banned also?
It's a slippery slope. Where are lines drawn? Do we ban anything and everything offensive?
I agree Murphy - for pete's sake they want to ban Gone with the WInd. Crazy at it's best.
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
          Location: Bastrop, Texas | Murphy - 2015-06-25 12:57 PM
banjomia - 2015-06-25 1:14 PM I am a staunch conservative and I struggle with the fact that no one recognizes the confederate battle flag as a symbol of racism. I am a bit shocked at what I read on these posts. I see an immediate stance of defiance and defense. I get that as it seems lately all we see and hear about is crimes committed against blacks by whites and all other crimes are blatantly ignored. I agree its out of control and it makes me ****ed off with resentment and wonder why our current administration and the lame stream media continues to divide our country...... BUT, The confederate battle flag was used as symbol of opposition to the civil rights act. That is a well known fact. It was adopted by both the KKK and the Dixiecrats. I completely understand why it is being asked to be removed. It is long over due. Symbols of racism do not belong anywhere..
KKK also carried the US flag. Should that be banned also?
It's a slippery slope. Where are lines drawn? Do we ban anything and everything offensive?
Precisely. The KKKs universal symbol is the cross, so all you people who like to embellish your tack with the cross are flashing the universal symbol used by the KKK.
(Of course I'm using absurdity to illustrate the absurd.) |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
          Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | banjomia - 2015-06-25 12:27 PM The flag has no meaning "regardless" of politics, or above politics; its heritage is not exempt from history. Anyone can interpret anything any way they want, but if they claim historical sanction for their interpretation, then they'd best be accurate. And in that sense, history is clear: There is no revolutionary cause associated with the flag, other than the right for Southern states to determine how best to subjugate black people and to perpetuate slavery.
Wrong. I was talking with a history teacher recently who said that's the way it's introduced at the elementary school level because the constitution, states' rights, and northern aggression related to economics of the time are considered "too complicated" for kids at that age. The rest of the story is supposed to be taught starting in jr high. The rest of the story isn't sinking in, obviously. Slavery was on the way out. It was going to take longer, phasing it out gradually, but the thinking was already changing. There was no way to stop it suddenly without destroying the economy, as evidenced by problems faced during Reconstruction. But the fact remains that although slavery was a major bone of contention that backed southerners into a corner so that they came out fighting, it was far from the only one.
btw, how do you explain Union generals, including Ulysses S Grant, owning slaves and not freeing them until forced to do so several months after the end of the war? |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
          Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR |
I don't know if that is a pathetic someone screaming for attention and trying to be relevant, or if people really are attempting a cultural cleansing. Kind of like that Ben Affleck deal on the PBS program where he asked they not disclose that one of his ancestors owned slaves. Why? He had no control over what happened before he was born. It was legal and considered normal and ethical in that time period. Can't we acknowledge that the institution was wrong without being ashamed that we are descended from people who participated? When you know better, you do better.
Not to mention that Africans were hardly the only slaves ever to exist in the history of the world. They weren't even the last... |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
     Location: In The Land of Cotton | Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-25 3:29 PM I don't know if that is a pathetic someone screaming for attention and trying to be relevant, or if people really are attempting a cultural cleansing. Kind of like that Ben Affleck deal on the PBS program where he asked they not disclose that one of his ancestors owned slaves. Why? He had no control over what happened before he was born. It was legal and considered normal and ethical in that time period. Can't we acknowledge that the institution was wrong without being ashamed that we are descended from people who participated? When you know better, you do better.
Not to mention that Africans were hardly the only slaves ever to exist in the history of the world. They weren't even the last...
So true, think about what happened in the next 25 years of American history, the Irish that were brought here and made slaves basically to work during the potatoe famine. Or the fact that the American Indian had slaves amongst themselves. Or, for pete sakes that the African's themselves still had slaves over on the African continent.
To erase history and remove anything and everything relaed to it is wrong. To learn and grow from it are another. But one cannot learn and grow when only the bad aspects are brought up continually.
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Veteran
Posts: 120

| Murphy - 2015-06-25 12:57 PM
banjomia - 2015-06-25 1:14 PM I am a staunch conservative and I struggle with the fact that no one recognizes the confederate battle flag as a symbol of racism. I am a bit shocked at what I read on these posts. I see an immediate stance of defiance and defense. I get that as it seems lately all we see and hear about is crimes committed against blacks by whites and all other crimes are blatantly ignored. I agree its out of control and it makes me ****ed off with resentment and wonder why our current administration and the lame stream media continues to divide our country...... BUT, The confederate battle flag was used as symbol of opposition to the civil rights act. That is a well known fact. It was adopted by both the KKK and the Dixiecrats. I completely understand why it is being asked to be removed. It is long over due. Symbols of racism do not belong anywhere..
KKK also carried the US flag. Should that be banned also?
It's a slippery slope. Where are lines drawn? Do we ban anything and everything offensive?
NO..Once again you are missing the point of the confederate battle flag. The US flag was not founded and created for the intent of slavery. The Confederate battle flag was. Do you not understand that? The very meaning and creation of the confederate battle flag was because of the desire to fight against the government and the civil rights act.
Comparing flying the US flag and the Confederate flags is like apples and oranges |
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Veteran
Posts: 120

| 3canstorun - 2015-06-25 2:40 PM
Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-25 3:29 PM I don't know if that is a pathetic someone screaming for attention and trying to be relevant, or if people really are attempting a cultural cleansing. Kind of like that Ben Affleck deal on the PBS program where he asked they not disclose that one of his ancestors owned slaves. Why? He had no control over what happened before he was born. It was legal and considered normal and ethical in that time period. Can't we acknowledge that the institution was wrong without being ashamed that we are descended from people who participated? When you know better, you do better.
Not to mention that Africans were hardly the only slaves ever to exist in the history of the world. They weren't even the last...
So true, think about what happened in the next 25 years of American history, the Irish that were brought here and made slaves basically to work during the potatoe famine. Or the fact that the American Indian had slaves amongst themselves. Or, for pete sakes that the African's themselves still had slaves over on the African continent.
To erase history and remove anything and everything relaed to it is wrong. To learn and grow from it are another. But one cannot learn and grow when only the bad aspects are brought up continually.
Once again, this isn't about erasing history.....its about not displaying a flag that has a historical meaning of hatred and slavery.
Its so simple I find it unreal that people can't see it for what it is. Remove everything you know and feel up to today about what's going on in this world. Remove your frustration with the attack on whites (and its there) and just see the confederate flag for what it is. Do the research. Its not rocket science. |
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Veteran
Posts: 120

| Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-25 2:17 PM
banjomia - 2015-06-25 12:27 PM The flag has no meaning "regardless" of politics, or above politics; its heritage is not exempt from history. Anyone can interpret anything any way they want, but if they claim historical sanction for their interpretation, then they'd best be accurate. And in that sense, history is clear: There is no revolutionary cause associated with the flag, other than the right for Southern states to determine how best to subjugate black people and to perpetuate slavery.
Wrong. I was talking with a history teacher recently who said that's the way it's introduced at the elementary school level because the constitution, states' rights, and northern aggression related to economics of the time are considered "too complicated" for kids at that age. The rest of the story is supposed to be taught starting in jr high. The rest of the story isn't sinking in, obviously. Slavery was on the way out. It was going to take longer, phasing it out gradually, but the thinking was already changing. There was no way to stop it suddenly without destroying the economy, as evidenced by problems faced during Reconstruction. But the fact remains that although slavery was a major bone of contention that backed southerners into a corner so that they came out fighting, it was far from the only one.
btw, how do you explain Union generals, including Ulysses S Grant, owning slaves and not freeing them until forced to do so several months after the end of the war?
This discussion isn't about who owned slaves and who didn't. Its about a "battle flag" that was created to fight the civil rights movement because slavery was considered a valuable economic right of the states. The original confederate flag doesn't even resemble the battle flag which has changed.
Listen, we can argue all day if you refuse to ignore the simplicity of this flag and what it stands for. Removing this flag is LONG over due. Regardless of all the complicated issues that surround slavery, racism, current events, there really isn't anything confusing or complicated about this flag.
Just think about it. Google it. You don't even need to be a history major to figure this one out. |
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 Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
     Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | banjomia - 2015-06-25 3:35 PM Murphy - 2015-06-25 12:57 PM banjomia - 2015-06-25 1:14 PM I am a staunch conservative and I struggle with the fact that no one recognizes the confederate battle flag as a symbol of racism. I am a bit shocked at what I read on these posts. I see an immediate stance of defiance and defense. I get that as it seems lately all we see and hear about is crimes committed against blacks by whites and all other crimes are blatantly ignored. I agree its out of control and it makes me ****ed off with resentment and wonder why our current administration and the lame stream media continues to divide our country...... BUT, The confederate battle flag was used as symbol of opposition to the civil rights act. That is a well known fact. It was adopted by both the KKK and the Dixiecrats. I completely understand why it is being asked to be removed. It is long over due. Symbols of racism do not belong anywhere.. KKK also carried the US flag. Should that be banned also?
It's a slippery slope. Where are lines drawn? Do we ban anything and everything offensive? NO..Once again you are missing the point of the confederate battle flag. The US flag was not founded and created for the intent of slavery. The Confederate battle flag was. Do you not understand that? The very meaning and creation of the confederate battle flag was because of the desire to fight against the government and the civil rights act. Comparing flying the US flag and the Confederate flags is like apples and oranges I'm not blaming you banjomia, I realize that we're not taught the truth in school & that is where we get most of our 'learnin', but, that's not correct...the civil war was about taxes....money...the north wanted to tax the cotton production, just like they later claimed the gold and silver from out west. It's always money & power. A little history that I find interesting and bizarre as I'm sure you do, too, but we forget that once upon a time the peasants of the world were not allowed to know how to read. It was a serious crime to be caught 'reading'! Why? Because mankind can control the illiterate much easier than the educated. In the 1800's in America the blacks were learning to read! They then freed themselves. Here we are today...and I really question our literacy, hence, the control that a governement is gaining on us...again.
I see this as a "stoop for that you'll stoop for this". It must stop, it's out of control!
Edited by musikmaker 2015-06-25 4:52 PM
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Expert
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     Location: East Texas | banjomia - 2015-06-25 4:48 PM
Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-25 2:17 PM
banjomia - 2015-06-25 12:27 PM The flag has no meaning "regardless" of politics, or above politics; its heritage is not exempt from history. Anyone can interpret anything any way they want, but if they claim historical sanction for their interpretation, then they'd best be accurate. And in that sense, history is clear: There is no revolutionary cause associated with the flag, other than the right for Southern states to determine how best to subjugate black people and to perpetuate slavery.
Wrong. I was talking with a history teacher recently who said that's the way it's introduced at the elementary school level because the constitution, states' rights, and northern aggression related to economics of the time are considered "too complicated" for kids at that age. The rest of the story is supposed to be taught starting in jr high. The rest of the story isn't sinking in, obviously. Slavery was on the way out. It was going to take longer, phasing it out gradually, but the thinking was already changing. There was no way to stop it suddenly without destroying the economy, as evidenced by problems faced during Reconstruction. But the fact remains that although slavery was a major bone of contention that backed southerners into a corner so that they came out fighting, it was far from the only one.
btw, how do you explain Union generals, including Ulysses S Grant, owning slaves and not freeing them until forced to do so several months after the end of the war?
This discussion isn't about who owned slaves and who didn't. Its about a "battle flag" that was created to fight the civil rights movement because slavery was considered a valuable economic right of the states. The original confederate flag doesn't even resemble the battle flag which has changed.
Listen, we can argue all day if you refuse to ignore the simplicity of this flag and what it stands for. Removing this flag is LONG over due. Regardless of all the complicated issues that surround slavery, racism, current events, there really isn't anything confusing or complicated about this flag.
Just think about it. Google it. You don't even need to be a history major to figure this one out.
I guess my question to you, Banjomia, is, what exactly do you believe will happen if every Confederate flag is taken down, other than those that want them down feeling they won a battle? I believe that until we all get our hearts right and everyone starts treating each other with some kind of respect (which needs to be earned), then taking down a flag that some believe represents hatred, with be just that... a bunch of flags being removed. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
          Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | banjomia - 2015-06-25 4:48 PM Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-25 2:17 PM banjomia - 2015-06-25 12:27 PM The flag has no meaning "regardless" of politics, or above politics; its heritage is not exempt from history. Anyone can interpret anything any way they want, but if they claim historical sanction for their interpretation, then they'd best be accurate. And in that sense, history is clear: There is no revolutionary cause associated with the flag, other than the right for Southern states to determine how best to subjugate black people and to perpetuate slavery. Wrong. I was talking with a history teacher recently who said that's the way it's introduced at the elementary school level because the constitution, states' rights, and northern aggression related to economics of the time are considered "too complicated" for kids at that age. The rest of the story is supposed to be taught starting in jr high. The rest of the story isn't sinking in, obviously. Slavery was on the way out. It was going to take longer, phasing it out gradually, but the thinking was already changing. There was no way to stop it suddenly without destroying the economy, as evidenced by problems faced during Reconstruction. But the fact remains that although slavery was a major bone of contention that backed southerners into a corner so that they came out fighting, it was far from the only one.
btw, how do you explain Union generals, including Ulysses S Grant, owning slaves and not freeing them until forced to do so several months after the end of the war? This discussion isn't about who owned slaves and who didn't. Its about a "battle flag" that was created to fight the civil rights movement because slavery was considered a valuable economic right of the states. The original confederate flag doesn't even resemble the battle flag which has changed. Listen, we can argue all day if you refuse to ignore the simplicity of this flag and what it stands for. Removing this flag is LONG over due. Regardless of all the complicated issues that surround slavery, racism, current events, there really isn't anything confusing or complicated about this flag. Just think about it. Google it. You don't even need to be a history major to figure this one out.
You seem to have the civil war and the civil rights movement of 100 years later all mixed up. The battle flag was created during the WAR.
I don't see the flag as a symbol of racism, I see it as a display of Southern pride. Pride was all many people had left after the war. I've never personally felt the need to display it, but I'm about to change my mind. Screw the PC police. |
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BHW's Simon Cowell
      Location: The Saudia Arabia of Wind Energy, Western Oklahoma | When these poor people were murdered I was interested to see what BHW would have to say about it. To my surprise there didn't seem to be one post about it. Now if I missed it I apologize in advance. But we have a 6 page post about the confederate flag. That is pretty sad. |
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BHW's Simon Cowell
      Location: The Saudia Arabia of Wind Energy, Western Oklahoma | I guess I could have missed a prayer post or something. I'm still looking but I can't find one post. |
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
      Location: Tulsa, Ok | ksjackofalltrades - 2015-06-25 5:36 PM When these poor people were murdered I was interested to see what BHW would have to say about it. To my surprise there didn't seem to be one post about it. Now if I missed it I apologize in advance. But we have a 6 page post about the confederate flag. That is pretty sad. Thank you. People seem way more concerned with the flag issue than the fact that PEOPLE DIED. And those deaths were a result of ignorance and bigotry.
Edited by SC Wrangler 2015-06-25 6:25 PM
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
     Location: OH. IO | ksjackofalltrades - 2015-06-25 6:41 PM
I guess I could have missed a prayer post or something. I'm still looking but I can't find one post.
Did you make a post about? Feel FREE to do so.Why is it everyone elses responsibility to post and then you say this? You didnt either so why are you blaming everyone else? YET ANOTHER PROBLEM IN THIS WORLD. |
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 Knowledge is Power
Posts: 4051
    Location: wherever my daughter's running | cruise - 2015-06-22 12:36 PMI live in SC. Very proud of our state in the way they are handling a horrible, senseless, tragedy. There has been no hate rioting, destorying of police vehicles, or burning of businesses. Too much good for some to handle so grab the low hanging fruit - the flag and gun control. I am a direct desendant of SC Governor Gist's second wife. Long family line of family ties to that era in histroy. It was a very different time. The flag was not placed on our state capital right after the war - it was placed there when segregation began in the South in the early sixties. That is my issues with the flying - not the flag itself - but the time it was placed on our capital. It wa to have been flown for 1 year - apparently someone forgot to take it down. Take it down or leave it up - it will not change the hate in anyone's heart. There are also pictures of the individual that took 9 beautiful lives visiting a confederate museum in upstate SC. Will the museum be closed? Will those who make money off the confederate flag sold on clothing, patches. license plates, the flag, etc. be ordered to close down. I can go along with taking it down and putting it in a museum - but as I said earlier - I don't think it change the hatred in peoples hearts. Our Governonr is scheduled to hold a news conference this afternoon. It is anticipated it will be about the flag. Apparently there in a loophole that will allow for it to taken down within 10 days by tying it onto our state budget which has yet to a approved. Will be interesting to see what she has to say. Quoted this so maybe it will preface what I am going to say. While I am still fine with the flag coming down because it is on SC's stste house grounds, the ripple effect will cause history, good and bad, to be erased. Taking down the flag is the top of the iceberg. No more General Lee cars from the Dukes of Hazzard with the flag on its roof, people wanting to remove stain glass windows, rename streets parks, anything carrying the name of Robert E Lee, who did other things beside lead the Confederate Army, or any other person that was a part of the Confederacy, and Amazon who said there were removing items with the fag, but apparently not till after the sales for them increased 200%. Guess no one knew how to type item no longer available before they made money. Probably more in 24 hours than they would have made in 24 years off that item.Yes, part of the reason for secession was because of money. Money made off of cotton in the South. Lincoln knew he could not let the cash cow get away. This whole thing has been taken to the extreme. Remove one flag from the state house grounds - yes. Erase history - no.
Edited by cruise 2015-06-25 8:50 PM
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| I stole this from another site...
"Since it's so righteous to purge our culture of anything that some asshat PERCEIVES to be racist; let's make sure we're being thorough.
Since things like Jim Crow laws and slavery itself were codified into US law under the American flag, the American flag is also a symbol of racist hate and oppression and should equally be banned.
Since most of the founding fathers were themselves evil slave-owning white men, the US Constitution should also be banned.
Since George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were among the aforementioned evil white slave holders, all monuments and likenesses should be destroyed and never again displayed in public." |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas |
Guess they'll also want to pull the Auto Trader ad with the Duke boys and General Lee. . . |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas | ampratt - 2015-06-25 7:03 AM
Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-25 1:00 AM
Just when I think I have heard it all on this subject and can't be shocked anymore on some of the ignorance, I hear something new and my mouth drops.
I agree. I think this has absolutely and totally gotten out of hand. The time and energy spent on this is unreal and could be used to do so much more good. It's time to give it a rest and move on to something really important.
That's exactly what I told my bf today---of all the issues the US has going on, this is what our government is choosing to concentrate on?? |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas | Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-25 8:15 AM
Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-25 1:00 AM Just when I think I have heard it all on this subject and can't be shocked anymore on some of the ignorance, I hear something new and my mouth drops.
I saw a cartoon last night inferring the confederacy was akin to nazi germany. Really, people? That is disgusting.
I know, and some of this is coming from supposed "intelligent" people??? |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas |
Reckon they'll want to strip the Oscars from GWTW also? Including the one that went to the first black Oscar winner. . . . |
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 Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
     Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | Itsme - 2015-06-25 9:10 PM I stole this from another site... "Since it's so righteous to purge our culture of anything that some asshat PERCEIVES to be racist; let's make sure we're being thorough. Since things like Jim Crow laws and slavery itself were codified into US law under the American flag, the American flag is also a symbol of racist hate and oppression and should equally be banned. Since most of the founding fathers were themselves evil slave-owning white men, the US Constitution should also be banned. Since George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were among the aforementioned evil white slave holders, all monuments and likenesses should be destroyed and never again displayed in public."
'They' are working on it. |
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 Take a Picture
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| After extensive genealogical reserch., I have found that the ONLY slave owners in MY family lived in Connecticut..I think they need to take their flag down too. |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas | SC Wrangler - 2015-06-25 6:23 PM
ksjackofalltrades - 2015-06-25 5:36 PM When these poor people were murdered I was interested to see what BHW would have to say about it. To my surprise there didn't seem to be one post about it. Now if I missed it I apologize in advance. But we have a 6 page post about the confederate flag. That is pretty sad. Thank you. People seem way more concerned with the flag issue than the fact that PEOPLE DIED. And those deaths were a result of ignorance and bigotry.
I feel horrible that those people died----I don't care what color they are, it's a terrible tragedy. But that flag DID NOT cause their deaths. If the killer had been carrying a bible or a CD of a current rap star, would those things then be blamed and need to be taken out of the public eyes? I realize, like Bear said, this may be in the realm of absurdity, but that is where I feel like this frenzy over the flag has gone. |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
     Location: OH. IO | We meed a miss white america and a college for for whites too.the american white college fund.what would happen if that happened. |
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 Knowledge is Power
Posts: 4051
    Location: wherever my daughter's running | http://m.naturalnews.com/news/050201_book_burning_American_flag_his... was in Columbia this week for a meeting I had never been to the State House with the flag and monument, so I decided to ride by and see it before it is removed. Red light caught me and I was able to get a picture of this very controversial flag that has been made the reason along with gun controll. Big pharm, alcohol, lack of mental health services, and dare I say home environment played no part whatsoever in this horrible tragedy. Mass murders have hsppened and will continue to happen all over the United State - very sad fact. I am a proud South Carolina girl and will wear my blue and white today to show unity. |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
          Location: Bastrop, Texas | Stop and think about this ridiculous trap so many people are succumbing to. This is exactly how progressives operate. They feed off hate, anger, and deep divisions.
They are never ever happy.....unless they can be shrill and divisive. People are falling for it. Saul Alinski is looking more and more like a genius. All of a sudden, within a couple weeks, a symbol that has existed for 150 years is gone...poof!
Will that make any difference? Will people all of a sudden be kinder and more tolerant? Will America be safer? That flag didn't mean a thing to me, but it sure did to a lot of decent folks I know. Now they are talking about making TV shows and movies unavailable. Now I am supposed to be guilt ridden whenever I watch Gone With the Wind.
Maybe we need some good old fashioned book burnings. Wouldn't surprise me. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
    Location: Midwest | Symbols mean different things to different people.
The swastika has a much older meaning than the nazi association (it's actually a symbol from the eastern world, predating the nazi party by a very long time).... However, now that is how we view the symbol.
Growing up even in Indiana, many folks flew the rebel flag or had stuff with the flag on it and it was not associated with race. Of course, in the cities many folks see it as a racist symbol. I've seen black people wearing or having flag stickers and gear, so I highly doubt they are trying to use the symbol as a display of hatred for their own race. It means what folks want it to mean from their pov.
In the end, this is a pointless argument, which is only serving to distract the general public from the real problems in America that are impossible to tackle in a Twitter post or sound bite. |
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 Nicknameless
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     Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | Does anyone know if the Confederate Flag has EVER been flown at half mast? Say...following 911? |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | Bear - 2015-06-26 7:26 AM Stop and think about this ridiculous trap so many people are succumbing to. This is exactly how progressives operate. They feed off hate, anger, and deep divisions. They are never ever happy.....unless they can be shrill and divisive. People are falling for it. Saul Alinski is looking more and more like a genius. All of a sudden, within a couple weeks, a symbol that has existed for 150 years is gone...poof! Will that make any difference? Will people all of a sudden be kinder and more tolerant? Will America be safer? That flag didn't mean a thing to me, but it sure did to a lot of decent folks I know. Now they are talking about making TV shows and movies unavailable. Now I am supposed to be guilt ridden whenever I watch Gone With the Wind. Maybe we need some good old fashioned book burnings. Wouldn't surprise me. I agree. The libs have been playing the Alinsky play book. Obama was picked and groomed to be President to get this done. Saul Alinsky’s 12 Rules for Radicals Here is the complete list from Alinsky. * RULE 1: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.” Power is derived from 2 main sources – money and people. “Have-Nots” must build power from flesh and blood. (These are two things of which there is a plentiful supply. Government and corporations always have a difficult time appealing to people, and usually do so almost exclusively with economic arguments.) * RULE 2: “Never go outside the expertise of your people.” It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone. (Organizations under attack wonder why radicals don’t address the “real” issues. This is why. They avoid things with which they have no knowledge.) * RULE 3: “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.” Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.) * RULE 4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.” If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity’s very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.) * RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.) * RULE 6: “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.” They’ll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They’re doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones. (Radical activists, in this sense, are no different that any other human being. We all avoid “un-fun” activities, and but we revel at and enjoy the ones that work and bring results.) * RULE 7: “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.” Don’t become old news. (Even radical activists get bored. So to keep them excited and involved, organizers are constantly coming up with new tactics.) * RULE 8: “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.” Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, attack from all sides, never giving the reeling organization a chance to rest, regroup, recover and re-strategize.) * RULE 9: “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.” Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist. (Perception is reality. Large organizations always prepare a worst-case scenario, something that may be furthest from the activists’ minds. The upshot is that the organization will expend enormous time and energy, creating in its own collective mind the direst of conclusions. The possibilities can easily poison the mind and result in demoralization.) * RULE 10: “If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.” Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog. (Unions used this tactic. Peaceful [albeit loud] demonstrations during the heyday of unions in the early to mid-20th Century incurred management’s wrath, often in the form of violence that eventually brought public sympathy to their side.) * RULE 11: “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.” Never let the enemy score points because you’re caught without a solution to the problem. (Old saw: If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. Activist organizations have an agenda, and their strategy is to hold a place at the table, to be given a forum to wield their power. So, they have to have a compromise solution.) * RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)
Edited by Nevertooold 2015-06-26 11:27 AM
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 Knowledge is Power
Posts: 4051
    Location: wherever my daughter's running | musikmaker - 2015-06-26 9:24 AM Does anyone know if the Confederate Flag has EVER been flown at half mast? Say...following 911?
It is my understanding that since the Confederate Flag was removed from the top of the Capitol Building, where it flew from the same flag pole as the US and SC flags, it has not been flown at half mast. When it was relocated in 2000 the law placing it in its current location was pretty specific about where it and how it was to be flown i.e. 30 feet high, 10 feet from memorial, etc. I think there is actually no way to lower the flag to half staff as there is not a pully system on the flag pole. Before being removed from the top of the Capitol Building in 2000 I think it flew half staff along with the US and SC flags when necessary. |
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BHW's Simon Cowell
      Location: The Saudia Arabia of Wind Energy, Western Oklahoma | Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-26 12:04 AM SC Wrangler - 2015-06-25 6:23 PM ksjackofalltrades - 2015-06-25 5:36 PM When these poor people were murdered I was interested to see what BHW would have to say about it. To my surprise there didn't seem to be one post about it. Now if I missed it I apologize in advance. But we have a 6 page post about the confederate flag. That is pretty sad. Thank you. People seem way more concerned with the flag issue than the fact that PEOPLE DIED. And those deaths were a result of ignorance and bigotry. I feel horrible that those people died----I don't care what color they are, it's a terrible tragedy. But that flag DID NOT cause their deaths. If the killer had been carrying a bible or a CD of a current rap star, would those things then be blamed and need to be taken out of the public eyes? I realize, like Bear said, this may be in the realm of absurdity, but that is where I feel like this frenzy over the flag has gone.
I never said that the flag caused anything. Just said it was interesting that this site seems much more concerned with the flag than the actual tragedy which is obvious by this post and the lack of any kind of post about the church murders. I think it is ridiculous that the flag is being blamed.
Just curious, if the confederate flag is the flag of Southern pride, then what is the flag of Northern pride? I guess the American Flag? I live in a state that was neither a northern state or southern state so I choose the American Flag as my flag. LOL |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
          Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | There is no northern pride. They were never their own country.
I'm not sure what there is to say about the heinous act that started it all. Some crazy dude shot up innocent people in a church. Of course we prayed for them. But like so many things, I don't see the point in making a public declaration of it unless someone I'm praying for will see it and feel supported. There is no defending or understanding his actions and I don't want to give the scum the recognition. |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas | jake16 - 2015-06-26 5:19 AM
We meed a miss white america and a college for for whites too.the american white college fund.what would happen if that happened.
Oh my goodness, Jake, you know what would happen. Hey, have you thought about politics as a side job??! |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas | Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-26 4:23 PM
There is no northern pride. They were never their own country.
I'm not sure what there is to say about the heinous act that started it all. Some crazy dude shot up innocent people in a church. Of course we prayed for them. But like so many things, I don't see the point in making a public declaration of it unless someone I'm praying for will see it and feel supported. There is no defending or understanding his actions and I don't want to give the scum the recognition.
Your answer is priceless. . . Simply priceless!! |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas | ksjackofalltrades - 2015-06-26 4:06 PM
Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-26 12:04 AM SC Wrangler - 2015-06-25 6:23 PM ksjackofalltrades - 2015-06-25 5:36 PM When these poor people were murdered I was interested to see what BHW would have to say about it. To my surprise there didn't seem to be one post about it. Now if I missed it I apologize in advance. But we have a 6 page post about the confederate flag. That is pretty sad. Thank you. People seem way more concerned with the flag issue than the fact that PEOPLE DIED. And those deaths were a result of ignorance and bigotry. I feel horrible that those people died----I don't care what color they are, it's a terrible tragedy. But that flag DID NOT cause their deaths. If the killer had been carrying a bible or a CD of a current rap star, would those things then be blamed and need to be taken out of the public eyes? I realize, like Bear said, this may be in the realm of absurdity, but that is where I feel like this frenzy over the flag has gone.
I never said that the flag caused anything. Just said it was interesting that this site seems much more concerned with the flag than the actual tragedy which is obvious by this post and the lack of any kind of post about the church murders. I think it is ridiculous that the flag is being blamed.
Just curious, if the confederate flag is the flag of Southern pride, then what is the flag of Northern pride? I guess the American Flag? I live in a state that was neither a northern state or southern state so I choose the American Flag as my flag. LOL
There will be repercussions towards more than just the Confederate flag now, I'm sure. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1395
       Location: Missouri | Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-25 10:54 PM
Reckon they'll want to strip the Oscars from GWTW also? Including the one that went to the first black Oscar winner. . . .
Oh. My. Gosh. Is the author of this article JOKING?
It is not a 'myth' that the north and south didn't go to war over slavery....it's history. They didn't. Lincoln's primary objective was to preserve the union (big govt) and the south seceded bc they didn't like all the crap being imposed on them, and were in favor of a smaller national govt and states' rights to handle most everything else (something we obviously don't have today.) Lincoln was a good politician and knew that if he made ending slavery the reason for going to war....few in the North would take up arms. Why? Because there were slave owners there too, albeit not as many. It really bothers me that America as a whole accepts the lie that the civil war was fought primarily over slavery when big govt vs states' rights was the 'big' issue. |
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  Semper Fi
             Location: North Texas | MOGirl07 - 2015-06-27 7:23 AM
Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-25 10:54 PM
Reckon they'll want to strip the Oscars from GWTW also? Including the one that went to the first black Oscar winner. . . .
Oh. My. Gosh. Is the author of this article JOKING?
It is not a 'myth' that the north and south didn't go to war over slavery....it's history. They didn't. Lincoln's primary objective was to preserve the union (big govt ) and the south seceded bc they didn't like all the crap being imposed on them, and were in favor of a smaller national govt and states' rights to handle most everything else (something we obviously don't have today. ) Lincoln was a good politician and knew that if he made ending slavery the reason for going to war....few in the North would take up arms. Why? Because there were slave owners there too, albeit not as many. It really bothers me that America as a whole accepts the lie that the civil war was fought primarily over slavery when big govt vs states' rights was the 'big' issue.
To the victor goes the spoils of war. Which includes the writing or miswriting for political gain the history........................ |
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 Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
     Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | cruise - 2015-06-26 1:45 PM musikmaker - 2015-06-26 9:24 AM Does anyone know if the Confederate Flag has EVER been flown at half mast? Say...following 911? It is my understanding that since the Confederate Flag was removed from the top of the Capitol Building, where it flew from the same flag pole as the US and SC flags, it has not been flown at half mast. When it was relocated in 2000 the law placing it in its current location was pretty specific about where it and how it was to be flown i.e. 30 feet high, 10 feet from memorial, etc. I think there is actually no way to lower the flag to half staff as there is not a pully system on the flag pole. Before being removed from the top of the Capitol Building in 2000 I think it flew half staff along with the US and SC flags when necessary.
Thank you...I think it's 'telling' that this is an issue at this moment in time. (I had to laugh at my ignorance & my 'sailor' showing with mast vs staff...ha...I knew that!) |
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  Semper Fi
             Location: North Texas | This info is pertinent to this thread:
History books, the media, the school systems, etc abound in falsehoods and inaccuracies of Confederate and Southern history. This fact sheet will help to clarify and dispell some of these rampant inaccuracies.
MYTH - The War of 1861 - 1865 was fought over slavery.
FACT - Terribly untrue. The North fought the war over money. Plain and simple. When the South started Secession, Lincoln was asked, "Why not let the South go in peace?" To which he replied, "I can't let them go. Who would pay for the government?" Sensing total financial ruin for the North, Lincoln waged war on the South. The South fought the War to repel Northern aggression and invasion.
MYTH - Only Southerners owned slaves.
FACT - Entirely untrue. Many Northern civilians owned slaves. Prior to, during and even after the War Of Northern Aggression.
Surprisingly, to many history impaired individuals, most Union Generals and staff had slaves to serve them! William T. Sherman had many slaves that served him until well after the war was over and did not free them until late in 1865.
U.S. Grant also had several slaves, who were only freed after the 13th amendment in December of 1865. When asked why he didn't free his slaves earlier, Grant stated "Good help is so hard to come by these days."
Contrarily, Confederate General Robert E. Lee freed his slaves (which he never purchased - they were inherited) in 1862!!! Lee freed his slaves several years before the war was over, and considerably earlier than his Northern counterparts. And during the fierce early days of the war when the South was obliterating the Yankee armies!
Lastly, and most importantly, why did NORTHERN States outlaw slavery only AFTER the war was over? The so-called "Emancipation Proclamation" of Lincoln only gave freedom to slaves in the SOUTH! NOT in the North! This pecksniffery even went so far as to find the state of Delaware rejecting the 13th Amendment in December of 1865 and did not ratify it (13th Amendment / free the slaves) until 1901!
MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag was flown on slave ships.
FACT - NONE of the flags of the Confederacy or Southern Nation ever flew over a slave ship. Nor did the South own or operate any slaves ships. The English, the Dutch and the Portugese brought slaves to this country, not the Southern Nation.
BUT, even more monumental, it is also very important to know and understand that Federal, Yankee, Union ships brought slaves to America! These ships were from the New England states, and their hypocrisy is atrocious.
These Federals were ones that ended up crying the loudest about slavery. But without their ships, many of the slaves would have never arrived here. They made countless fortunes on the delivery of slaves as well as the products madefrom raw materials such as cotton and tobacco in the South.
This is the problem with Yankee history History is overwhelmingly portrayed incorrectly by most of the Federal & Yankee books and media.
MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag represented the Southern Nation.
FACT - Not true. While the Southern Battle flag was carried into battle, the Southern Nation had 3 different National flags during the course of the war.
The First National flag was changed due to a resemblance of the US flag.
The Second National flag was subsequently modified due to the similarity to a flag of truce.
The Third National flag was the adopted flag of the Confederacy.
The Confederate Battle Flag was never a National Flag of the Confederacy. It was carried into battle by several armies such as the Army Of Northen Virginia and the Army of Tennessee. Was also used as a Naval Jack by the Confederate Navy.
MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag is known as the "Stars & Bars".
FACT - A common misconception. The First National Confederate Flag is correctly known as the "Stars & Bars". The Confederate Battle Flag is known as the "Southern Cross".
MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag represents racism today.
FACT - The Confederate Battle Flag today finds itself in the center of much controversy and hoopla going on in several states. The cry to take this flag down is unjustified. It is very important to keep in mind that the Confederate Battle Flag was simply just that. A battle flag. It was never even a National flag, so how could it have flown over a slave nation or represented slavery or racism? This myth is continued by lack of education and ignorance. Those that villify the Confederate Battle Flag are very confused about history and have jumped upon a bandwagon with loose wheels.
MYTH - The United States Flag represented freedom.
FACT - No chance. The US flag flew over a slave nation for over 85 years! The North tolerated slavery and acknowledged it as a Division Of Labor. The North made a vast fortune on slavery and it's commodities. It wasn't until the South decided to leave the Union that the North objected. The North knew it could not survive without the Southern money. That is the true definition of hypocrisy.
MYTH - Abraham Lincoln was the Great Emancipator.
FACT - While Lincoln has went down in history as the Great Emancipator, many would not care to hear his real thoughts on people of color. Martyred President Abraham Lincoln was fervently making plans to send all freed slaves to the jungles of Central America once the war was over. Knowing that African society would never allow the slaves to return back to Africa, Lincoln also did not want the slaves in the US. He thought the jungles of Central America would be the best solution and conducive to the freed slaves best interest. The only thing that kept this from happening, was his assassination.
MYTH - The South revered slavery.
FACT - A very interesting fact on slavery is that at the time the War of 1861 -1865 officially commenced, the Southern States were actually in the process of freeing all slaves in the South. Russia had freed it's servants in 1859, and the South took great note of this. Had military intervention not been forced upon the South, a very different America would have been realized then as well as now.
MYTH - The Confederate Army was comprised of rich slave owners.
FACT - Very far from true. The vast majority of soldiers in the Confederate Army were simple men of meager income. Most of which were hard working farmers and common men. Then, as now, very few rich men ever fight a war.
MYTH - Only the North had men of color in their ranks.
FACT - Quite simply a major falsehood of history. Many blacks, both free and of their own will, joined the Confederate Army to fight for their beloved Southern home. Additionally, men of other ethnic extraction fought as well. Oriental, Mexican & Spanish men as well as Native American Indians fought with pride for the South.
Today, many men of color are members in the heritage group SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans. These men of color and pride rejoice in their heritage. The continued attacks on the Southern Nation, The Confederacy, and her symbols are a terrible outrage to these fine people. These attacks should be denounced with as much fervor as those who denounce the South.
MYTH - The Confederate Flags are an authorized symbol of Aryan, KKK and hate groups.
FACT - Quite the contrary. These dispicable organizations such as the KKK and Aryans have taken a hallowed piece of history, and have plagued good Southern folks and the memories of fine Confederate Soldiers that fought under the flag with their perverse agenda. IN NO WAY does the Confederate Flag represent hate or violence. Heritage groups such as the SCV battle daily the damage done to a proud nation by these hate groups. The SCV denounces all hate groups, and pridefully boast HERITAGE - NOT HATE.
MYTH - The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are a racist, hate group.
FACT - This is a blatant attack on one of the finest heritage groups ever. The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are a historical, patriotic and non-political organization comprised of descendents of Confederate Soldiers and sailors dedicated to insuring that a true history of the 1861 -1865 period is preserved and presented to the public. The SCV continues to educate the public of the memory and reputation of the Confederate soldier as well as the motives for his suffering and sacrifice.
The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are in NO WAY affiliated with, nor does it recognize or condone the terrible legacy of hate groups such as the KKK.
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 Expert
Posts: 1395
       Location: Missouri | foundation horse - 2015-06-27 1:05 PM
This info is pertinent to this thread:
History books, the media, the school systems, etc abound in falsehoods and inaccuracies of Confederate and Southern history. This fact sheet will help to clarify and dispell some of these rampant inaccuracies.
MYTH - The War of 1861 - 1865 was fought over slavery.
FACT - Terribly untrue. The North fought the war over money. Plain and simple. When the South started Secession, Lincoln was asked, "Why not let the South go in peace?" To which he replied, "I can't let them go. Who would pay for the government?" Sensing total financial ruin for the North, Lincoln waged war on the South. The South fought the War to repel Northern aggression and invasion.
MYTH - Only Southerners owned slaves.
FACT - Entirely untrue. Many Northern civilians owned slaves. Prior to, during and even after the War Of Northern Aggression.
Surprisingly, to many history impaired individuals, most Union Generals and staff had slaves to serve them! William T. Sherman had many slaves that served him until well after the war was over and did not free them until late in 1865.
U.S. Grant also had several slaves, who were only freed after the 13th amendment in December of 1865. When asked why he didn't free his slaves earlier, Grant stated "Good help is so hard to come by these days."
Contrarily, Confederate General Robert E. Lee freed his slaves (which he never purchased - they were inherited) in 1862!!! Lee freed his slaves several years before the war was over, and considerably earlier than his Northern counterparts. And during the fierce early days of the war when the South was obliterating the Yankee armies!
Lastly, and most importantly, why did NORTHERN States outlaw slavery only AFTER the war was over? The so-called "Emancipation Proclamation" of Lincoln only gave freedom to slaves in the SOUTH! NOT in the North! This pecksniffery even went so far as to find the state of Delaware rejecting the 13th Amendment in December of 1865 and did not ratify it (13th Amendment / free the slaves) until 1901!
MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag was flown on slave ships.
FACT - NONE of the flags of the Confederacy or Southern Nation ever flew over a slave ship. Nor did the South own or operate any slaves ships. The English, the Dutch and the Portugese brought slaves to this country, not the Southern Nation.
BUT, even more monumental, it is also very important to know and understand that Federal, Yankee, Union ships brought slaves to America! These ships were from the New England states, and their hypocrisy is atrocious.
These Federals were ones that ended up crying the loudest about slavery. But without their ships, many of the slaves would have never arrived here. They made countless fortunes on the delivery of slaves as well as the products madefrom raw materials such as cotton and tobacco in the South.
This is the problem with Yankee history History is overwhelmingly portrayed incorrectly by most of the Federal & Yankee books and media.
MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag represented the Southern Nation.
FACT - Not true. While the Southern Battle flag was carried into battle, the Southern Nation had 3 different National flags during the course of the war.
The First National flag was changed due to a resemblance of the US flag.
The Second National flag was subsequently modified due to the similarity to a flag of truce.
The Third National flag was the adopted flag of the Confederacy.
The Confederate Battle Flag was never a National Flag of the Confederacy. It was carried into battle by several armies such as the Army Of Northen Virginia and the Army of Tennessee. Was also used as a Naval Jack by the Confederate Navy.
MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag is known as the "Stars & Bars".
FACT - A common misconception. The First National Confederate Flag is correctly known as the "Stars & Bars". The Confederate Battle Flag is known as the "Southern Cross".
MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag represents racism today.
FACT - The Confederate Battle Flag today finds itself in the center of much controversy and hoopla going on in several states. The cry to take this flag down is unjustified. It is very important to keep in mind that the Confederate Battle Flag was simply just that. A battle flag. It was never even a National flag, so how could it have flown over a slave nation or represented slavery or racism? This myth is continued by lack of education and ignorance. Those that villify the Confederate Battle Flag are very confused about history and have jumped upon a bandwagon with loose wheels.
MYTH - The United States Flag represented freedom.
FACT - No chance. The US flag flew over a slave nation for over 85 years! The North tolerated slavery and acknowledged it as a Division Of Labor. The North made a vast fortune on slavery and it's commodities. It wasn't until the South decided to leave the Union that the North objected. The North knew it could not survive without the Southern money. That is the true definition of hypocrisy.
MYTH - Abraham Lincoln was the Great Emancipator.
FACT - While Lincoln has went down in history as the Great Emancipator, many would not care to hear his real thoughts on people of color. Martyred President Abraham Lincoln was fervently making plans to send all freed slaves to the jungles of Central America once the war was over. Knowing that African society would never allow the slaves to return back to Africa, Lincoln also did not want the slaves in the US. He thought the jungles of Central America would be the best solution and conducive to the freed slaves best interest. The only thing that kept this from happening, was his assassination.
MYTH - The South revered slavery.
FACT - A very interesting fact on slavery is that at the time the War of 1861 -1865 officially commenced, the Southern States were actually in the process of freeing all slaves in the South. Russia had freed it's servants in 1859, and the South took great note of this. Had military intervention not been forced upon the South, a very different America would have been realized then as well as now.
MYTH - The Confederate Army was comprised of rich slave owners.
FACT - Very far from true. The vast majority of soldiers in the Confederate Army were simple men of meager income. Most of which were hard working farmers and common men. Then, as now, very few rich men ever fight a war.
MYTH - Only the North had men of color in their ranks.
FACT - Quite simply a major falsehood of history. Many blacks, both free and of their own will, joined the Confederate Army to fight for their beloved Southern home. Additionally, men of other ethnic extraction fought as well. Oriental, Mexican & Spanish men as well as Native American Indians fought with pride for the South.
Today, many men of color are members in the heritage group SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans. These men of color and pride rejoice in their heritage. The continued attacks on the Southern Nation, The Confederacy, and her symbols are a terrible outrage to these fine people. These attacks should be denounced with as much fervor as those who denounce the South.
MYTH - The Confederate Flags are an authorized symbol of Aryan, KKK and hate groups.
FACT - Quite the contrary. These dispicable organizations such as the KKK and Aryans have taken a hallowed piece of history, and have plagued good Southern folks and the memories of fine Confederate Soldiers that fought under the flag with their perverse agenda. IN NO WAY does the Confederate Flag represent hate or violence. Heritage groups such as the SCV battle daily the damage done to a proud nation by these hate groups. The SCV denounces all hate groups, and pridefully boast HERITAGE - NOT HATE.
MYTH - The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are a racist, hate group.
FACT - This is a blatant attack on one of the finest heritage groups ever. The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are a historical, patriotic and non-political organization comprised of descendents of Confederate Soldiers and sailors dedicated to insuring that a true history of the 1861 -1865 period is preserved and presented to the public. The SCV continues to educate the public of the memory and reputation of the Confederate soldier as well as the motives for his suffering and sacrifice.
The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are in NO WAY affiliated with, nor does it recognize or condone the terrible legacy of hate groups such as the KKK.
Thank you, I'm saving all of this! |
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 Expert
Posts: 1395
       Location: Missouri | foundation horse - 2015-06-27 12:53 PM
MOGirl07 - 2015-06-27 7:23 AM
Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-25 10:54 PM
Reckon they'll want to strip the Oscars from GWTW also? Including the one that went to the first black Oscar winner. . . .
Oh. My. Gosh. Is the author of this article JOKING?
It is not a 'myth' that the north and south didn't go to war over slavery....it's history. They didn't. Lincoln's primary objective was to preserve the union (big govt ) and the south seceded bc they didn't like all the crap being imposed on them, and were in favor of a smaller national govt and states' rights to handle most everything else (something we obviously don't have today. ) Lincoln was a good politician and knew that if he made ending slavery the reason for going to war....few in the North would take up arms. Why? Because there were slave owners there too, albeit not as many. It really bothers me that America as a whole accepts the lie that the civil war was fought primarily over slavery when big govt vs states' rights was the 'big' issue.
To the victor goes the spoils of war. Which includes the writing or miswriting for political gain the history........................
You know....I never thought of it that way. Sad, but true. I have to wonder how much different America would look today if the south had won. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
       
| I have done extensive genealogy and though most of my ancestors were from the South, the only ones who owned slaves lived in Connecticut.
The men who fought from the South were volunteers, a very few were conscripted (drafted). Almost all of the men who served from the North were conscripted. It does not matter what the issues were that caused the war, the North would have an army.
As for the people who are wanting to change history,their argument about the flag is totally incorrect. The flag they are protesting, only represented a very small number of Southern soldiers. Google 1st National, 2nd National, and 3rd national flags of the Confederacy. It is easy to see that someone has not been taught correctly or has formed their own opinion. Look up the speech from the black congressman who spoke in favor of adopting the Mississippi state flag.(I can't cut and paste on my tablet). It is a good rêead. You cannot change history. You cannot leave out the parts that you don't like. Our history is what has made us what we are no matter what color our skin is.
One last thing about the Sons of Confederate Veterans, it is an organization that strives to preserve the history of the Civil War. Many of the men are involved in the reenactments but many are not. It is a genealogy and religious organization. I got my husband in it and have helped several others to become members. I am a proud member of United Daughters of the Confederacy which is also a genealogy and religious organization.
As for Gone With the Wind, have any of you seen the movies Next Friday or Friday After Next (I believe those are the names)? Those are the most demeaning movies to the black race that I have ever seen in my life. Blacks seem to think they are pretty funny.
Now we are going to have to change the names of our horses such as Confederate Leader so we do not offend anyone. |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas | MOGirl07 - 2015-06-27 7:23 AM
Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-25 10:54 PM
Reckon they'll want to strip the Oscars from GWTW also? Including the one that went to the first black Oscar winner. . . .
Oh. My. Gosh. Is the author of this article JOKING?
It is not a 'myth' that the north and south didn't go to war over slavery....it's history. They didn't. Lincoln's primary objective was to preserve the union (big govt ) and the south seceded bc they didn't like all the crap being imposed on them, and were in favor of a smaller national govt and states' rights to handle most everything else (something we obviously don't have today. ) Lincoln was a good politician and knew that if he made ending slavery the reason for going to war....few in the North would take up arms. Why? Because there were slave owners there too, albeit not as many. It really bothers me that America as a whole accepts the lie that the civil war was fought primarily over slavery when big govt vs states' rights was the 'big' issue.
It is beyond scary the precipice our nation is standing upon. |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas | foundation horse - 2015-06-27 1:05 PM
This info is pertinent to this thread:
History books, the media, the school systems, etc abound in falsehoods and inaccuracies of Confederate and Southern history. This fact sheet will help to clarify and dispell some of these rampant inaccuracies.
MYTH - The War of 1861 - 1865 was fought over slavery.
FACT - Terribly untrue. The North fought the war over money. Plain and simple. When the South started Secession, Lincoln was asked, "Why not let the South go in peace?" To which he replied, "I can't let them go. Who would pay for the government?" Sensing total financial ruin for the North, Lincoln waged war on the South. The South fought the War to repel Northern aggression and invasion.
MYTH - Only Southerners owned slaves.
FACT - Entirely untrue. Many Northern civilians owned slaves. Prior to, during and even after the War Of Northern Aggression.
Surprisingly, to many history impaired individuals, most Union Generals and staff had slaves to serve them! William T. Sherman had many slaves that served him until well after the war was over and did not free them until late in 1865.
U.S. Grant also had several slaves, who were only freed after the 13th amendment in December of 1865. When asked why he didn't free his slaves earlier, Grant stated "Good help is so hard to come by these days."
Contrarily, Confederate General Robert E. Lee freed his slaves (which he never purchased - they were inherited) in 1862!!! Lee freed his slaves several years before the war was over, and considerably earlier than his Northern counterparts. And during the fierce early days of the war when the South was obliterating the Yankee armies!
Lastly, and most importantly, why did NORTHERN States outlaw slavery only AFTER the war was over? The so-called "Emancipation Proclamation" of Lincoln only gave freedom to slaves in the SOUTH! NOT in the North! This pecksniffery even went so far as to find the state of Delaware rejecting the 13th Amendment in December of 1865 and did not ratify it (13th Amendment / free the slaves) until 1901!
MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag was flown on slave ships.
FACT - NONE of the flags of the Confederacy or Southern Nation ever flew over a slave ship. Nor did the South own or operate any slaves ships. The English, the Dutch and the Portugese brought slaves to this country, not the Southern Nation.
BUT, even more monumental, it is also very important to know and understand that Federal, Yankee, Union ships brought slaves to America! These ships were from the New England states, and their hypocrisy is atrocious.
These Federals were ones that ended up crying the loudest about slavery. But without their ships, many of the slaves would have never arrived here. They made countless fortunes on the delivery of slaves as well as the products madefrom raw materials such as cotton and tobacco in the South.
This is the problem with Yankee history History is overwhelmingly portrayed incorrectly by most of the Federal & Yankee books and media.
MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag represented the Southern Nation.
FACT - Not true. While the Southern Battle flag was carried into battle, the Southern Nation had 3 different National flags during the course of the war.
The First National flag was changed due to a resemblance of the US flag.
The Second National flag was subsequently modified due to the similarity to a flag of truce.
The Third National flag was the adopted flag of the Confederacy.
The Confederate Battle Flag was never a National Flag of the Confederacy. It was carried into battle by several armies such as the Army Of Northen Virginia and the Army of Tennessee. Was also used as a Naval Jack by the Confederate Navy.
MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag is known as the "Stars & Bars".
FACT - A common misconception. The First National Confederate Flag is correctly known as the "Stars & Bars". The Confederate Battle Flag is known as the "Southern Cross".
MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag represents racism today.
FACT - The Confederate Battle Flag today finds itself in the center of much controversy and hoopla going on in several states. The cry to take this flag down is unjustified. It is very important to keep in mind that the Confederate Battle Flag was simply just that. A battle flag. It was never even a National flag, so how could it have flown over a slave nation or represented slavery or racism? This myth is continued by lack of education and ignorance. Those that villify the Confederate Battle Flag are very confused about history and have jumped upon a bandwagon with loose wheels.
MYTH - The United States Flag represented freedom.
FACT - No chance. The US flag flew over a slave nation for over 85 years! The North tolerated slavery and acknowledged it as a Division Of Labor. The North made a vast fortune on slavery and it's commodities. It wasn't until the South decided to leave the Union that the North objected. The North knew it could not survive without the Southern money. That is the true definition of hypocrisy.
MYTH - Abraham Lincoln was the Great Emancipator.
FACT - While Lincoln has went down in history as the Great Emancipator, many would not care to hear his real thoughts on people of color. Martyred President Abraham Lincoln was fervently making plans to send all freed slaves to the jungles of Central America once the war was over. Knowing that African society would never allow the slaves to return back to Africa, Lincoln also did not want the slaves in the US. He thought the jungles of Central America would be the best solution and conducive to the freed slaves best interest. The only thing that kept this from happening, was his assassination.
MYTH - The South revered slavery.
FACT - A very interesting fact on slavery is that at the time the War of 1861 -1865 officially commenced, the Southern States were actually in the process of freeing all slaves in the South. Russia had freed it's servants in 1859, and the South took great note of this. Had military intervention not been forced upon the South, a very different America would have been realized then as well as now.
MYTH - The Confederate Army was comprised of rich slave owners.
FACT - Very far from true. The vast majority of soldiers in the Confederate Army were simple men of meager income. Most of which were hard working farmers and common men. Then, as now, very few rich men ever fight a war.
MYTH - Only the North had men of color in their ranks.
FACT - Quite simply a major falsehood of history. Many blacks, both free and of their own will, joined the Confederate Army to fight for their beloved Southern home. Additionally, men of other ethnic extraction fought as well. Oriental, Mexican & Spanish men as well as Native American Indians fought with pride for the South.
Today, many men of color are members in the heritage group SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans. These men of color and pride rejoice in their heritage. The continued attacks on the Southern Nation, The Confederacy, and her symbols are a terrible outrage to these fine people. These attacks should be denounced with as much fervor as those who denounce the South.
MYTH - The Confederate Flags are an authorized symbol of Aryan, KKK and hate groups.
FACT - Quite the contrary. These dispicable organizations such as the KKK and Aryans have taken a hallowed piece of history, and have plagued good Southern folks and the memories of fine Confederate Soldiers that fought under the flag with their perverse agenda. IN NO WAY does the Confederate Flag represent hate or violence. Heritage groups such as the SCV battle daily the damage done to a proud nation by these hate groups. The SCV denounces all hate groups, and pridefully boast HERITAGE - NOT HATE.
MYTH - The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are a racist, hate group.
FACT - This is a blatant attack on one of the finest heritage groups ever. The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are a historical, patriotic and non-political organization comprised of descendents of Confederate Soldiers and sailors dedicated to insuring that a true history of the 1861 -1865 period is preserved and presented to the public. The SCV continues to educate the public of the memory and reputation of the Confederate soldier as well as the motives for his suffering and sacrifice.
The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are in NO WAY affiliated with, nor does it recognize or condone the terrible legacy of hate groups such as the KKK.
You have taught more truth in this post than most of us learned the whole time in our school careers concerning the Civil War. What an asset to this discussion you are. |
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  Semper Fi
             Location: North Texas | Why Thank You!  |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas | streakysox - 2015-06-27 5:16 PM
I have done extensive genealogy and though most of my ancestors were from the South, the only ones who owned slaves lived in Connecticut.
The men who fought from the South were volunteers, a very few were conscripted (drafted). Almost all of the men who served from the North were conscripted. It does not matter what the issues were that caused the war, the North would have an army.
As for the people who are wanting to change history,their argument about the flag is totally incorrect. The flag they are protesting, only represented a very small number of Southern soldiers. Google 1st National, 2nd National, and 3rd national flags of the Confederacy. It is easy to see that someone has not been taught correctly or has formed their own opinion. Look up the speech from the black congressman who spoke in favor of adopting the Mississippi state flag.(I can't cut and paste on my tablet). It is a good rêead. You cannot change history. You cannot leave out the parts that you don't like. Our history is what has made us what we are no matter what color our skin is.
One last thing about the Sons of Confederate Veterans, it is an organization that strives to preserve the history of the Civil War. Many of the men are involved in the reenactments but many are not. It is a genealogy and religious organization. I got my husband in it and have helped several others to become members. I am a proud member of United Daughters of the Confederacy which is also a genealogy and religious organization.
As for Gone With the Wind, have any of you seen the movies Next Friday or Friday After Next (I believe those are the names)? Those are the most demeaning movies to the black race that I have ever seen in my life. Blacks seem to think they are pretty funny.
Now we are going to have to change the names of our horses such as Confederate Leader so we do not offend anyone.
My son's farm is Rebel Farms. He is a southern boy thru and thru; he is very proud of his HERITAGE not HATRED. He flies a Confederate flag on his ponds. His gf is a barrel racer, and she asked me last night what would happen when she's hauling her horses in a trailer with Rebel Farms on the side? Would someone hurt her horses or her or run over her trailer. . . . I told her at this point I have no answer for that. And that's simply awful to have to tell a young girl she might not be safe because of the stupidity going on right now. |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
          Location: Bastrop, Texas | Clay, those are very interesting points, and I appreciate it. Most of these I was aware of, but for a couple.
First, you said that Lincoln had made plans to ship all blacks out of the country. Where can I find this information, because that does surprise me. I've never heard that before.
Second.....who actually started the Civil War? Clearly both sides were preparing for an eventual war, because it was a powder keg ready to blow, but who actually started the war?
Also, do you see anything like the Civil War as a possibility today? I can actually see insurrection and uprisings as a distinct possibility in today's America. A few years ago talk of this sort of thing, along with secession seemed far fetched, but today it doesn't seem far fetched at all. The big difference is the ideological divide can not be neatly divided geographically.
I honestly think we are circling the drain. Even if the GOP sweep the elections in 2016, I have very little faith that the vitally important issues facing us will not be addressed in any substantial way. The GOP, for the most part, is full of hot air.
Most of them will not be willing to commit to taking the bold steps necessary to right the ship.
What would happen if Texas secceeded from the Union? Is that even a real possibility? |
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  Semper Fi
             Location: North Texas | Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-27 11:07 PM
streakysox - 2015-06-27 5:16 PM
I have done extensive genealogy and though most of my ancestors were from the South, the only ones who owned slaves lived in Connecticut.
The men who fought from the South were volunteers, a very few were conscripted (drafted). Almost all of the men who served from the North were conscripted. It does not matter what the issues were that caused the war, the North would have an army.
As for the people who are wanting to change history,their argument about the flag is totally incorrect. The flag they are protesting, only represented a very small number of Southern soldiers. Google 1st National, 2nd National, and 3rd national flags of the Confederacy. It is easy to see that someone has not been taught correctly or has formed their own opinion. Look up the speech from the black congressman who spoke in favor of adopting the Mississippi state flag.(I can't cut and paste on my tablet). It is a good rêead. You cannot change history. You cannot leave out the parts that you don't like. Our history is what has made us what we are no matter what color our skin is.
One last thing about the Sons of Confederate Veterans, it is an organization that strives to preserve the history of the Civil War. Many of the men are involved in the reenactments but many are not. It is a genealogy and religious organization. I got my husband in it and have helped several others to become members. I am a proud member of United Daughters of the Confederacy which is also a genealogy and religious organization.
As for Gone With the Wind, have any of you seen the movies Next Friday or Friday After Next (I believe those are the names)? Those are the most demeaning movies to the black race that I have ever seen in my life. Blacks seem to think they are pretty funny.
Now we are going to have to change the names of our horses such as Confederate Leader so we do not offend anyone.
My son's farm is Rebel Farms. He is a southern boy thru and thru; he is very proud of his HERITAGE not HATRED. He flies a Confederate flag on his ponds. His gf is a barrel racer, and she asked me last night what would happen when she's hauling her horses in a trailer with Rebel Farms on the side? Would someone hurt her horses or her or run over her trailer. . . . I told her at this point I have no answer for that. And that's simply awful to have to tell a young girl she might not be safe because of the stupidity going on right now.
Suggest going armed and be prepared to defend herself and her horses. |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas | foundation horse - 2015-06-27 11:20 PM
Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-27 11:07 PM
streakysox - 2015-06-27 5:16 PM
I have done extensive genealogy and though most of my ancestors were from the South, the only ones who owned slaves lived in Connecticut.
The men who fought from the South were volunteers, a very few were conscripted (drafted). Almost all of the men who served from the North were conscripted. It does not matter what the issues were that caused the war, the North would have an army.
As for the people who are wanting to change history,their argument about the flag is totally incorrect. The flag they are protesting, only represented a very small number of Southern soldiers. Google 1st National, 2nd National, and 3rd national flags of the Confederacy. It is easy to see that someone has not been taught correctly or has formed their own opinion. Look up the speech from the black congressman who spoke in favor of adopting the Mississippi state flag.(I can't cut and paste on my tablet). It is a good rêead. You cannot change history. You cannot leave out the parts that you don't like. Our history is what has made us what we are no matter what color our skin is.
One last thing about the Sons of Confederate Veterans, it is an organization that strives to preserve the history of the Civil War. Many of the men are involved in the reenactments but many are not. It is a genealogy and religious organization. I got my husband in it and have helped several others to become members. I am a proud member of United Daughters of the Confederacy which is also a genealogy and religious organization.
As for Gone With the Wind, have any of you seen the movies Next Friday or Friday After Next (I believe those are the names)? Those are the most demeaning movies to the black race that I have ever seen in my life. Blacks seem to think they are pretty funny.
Now we are going to have to change the names of our horses such as Confederate Leader so we do not offend anyone.
My son's farm is Rebel Farms. He is a southern boy thru and thru; he is very proud of his HERITAGE not HATRED. He flies a Confederate flag on his ponds. His gf is a barrel racer, and she asked me last night what would happen when she's hauling her horses in a trailer with Rebel Farms on the side? Would someone hurt her horses or her or run over her trailer. . . . I told her at this point I have no answer for that. And that's simply awful to have to tell a young girl she might not be safe because of the stupidity going on right now.
Suggest going armed and be prepared to defend herself and her horses.
Trust me when I say she could handle the "being armed" part!! Laura would protect her horses to the end. And Lord help them if he's hauling with her. . . I sent your "myth and fact" post to Chandler. He said "she sure knows her stuff"!! As I posted before, he knew more on this----the truth----than I did. He had already told me several of the things you listed that I was totally wrong on. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1395
       Location: Missouri | Bear - 2015-06-27 11:18 PM
Clay, those are very interesting points, and I appreciate it. Most of these I was aware of, but for a couple.
First, you said that Lincoln had made plans to ship all blacks out of the country. Where can I find this information, because that does surprise me. I've never heard that before.
Second.....who actually started the Civil War? Clearly both sides were preparing for an eventual war, because it was a powder keg ready to blow, but who actually started the war?
Also, do you see anything like the Civil War as a possibility today? I can actually see insurrection and uprisings as a distinct possibility in today's America. A few years ago talk of this sort of thing, along with secession seemed far fetched, but today it doesn't seem far fetched at all. The big difference is the ideological divide can not be neatly divided geographically.
I honestly think we are circling the drain. Even if the GOP sweep the elections in 2016, I have very little faith that the vitally important issues facing us will not be addressed in any substantial way. The GOP, for the most part, is full of hot air.
Most of them will not be willing to commit to taking the bold steps necessary to right the ship.
What would happen if Texas secceeded from the Union? Is that even a real possibility?
These are all really good questions.
Pertaining to the civil unrest in the US....has anyone heard of Jade Helm (going on this summer)? I just saw something on Fb about it and it make my mouth drop. But I've yet to find anything on it from a credible news site... |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
          Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | The war started at Ft Sumpter in SC, right? I don't remember who fired the first shots tho. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
          Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-28 12:02 AM foundation horse - 2015-06-27 11:20 PM Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-27 11:07 PM streakysox - 2015-06-27 5:16 PM I have done extensive genealogy and though most of my ancestors were from the South, the only ones who owned slaves lived in Connecticut. The men who fought from the South were volunteers, a very few were conscripted (drafted). Almost all of the men who served from the North were conscripted. It does not matter what the issues were that caused the war, the North would have an army. As for the people who are wanting to change history,their argument about the flag is totally incorrect. The flag they are protesting, only represented a very small number of Southern soldiers. Google 1st National, 2nd National, and 3rd national flags of the Confederacy. It is easy to see that someone has not been taught correctly or has formed their own opinion. Look up the speech from the black congressman who spoke in favor of adopting the Mississippi state flag.(I can't cut and paste on my tablet). It is a good rêead. You cannot change history. You cannot leave out the parts that you don't like. Our history is what has made us what we are no matter what color our skin is. One last thing about the Sons of Confederate Veterans, it is an organization that strives to preserve the history of the Civil War. Many of the men are involved in the reenactments but many are not. It is a genealogy and religious organization. I got my husband in it and have helped several others to become members. I am a proud member of United Daughters of the Confederacy which is also a genealogy and religious organization. As for Gone With the Wind, have any of you seen the movies Next Friday or Friday After Next (I believe those are the names)? Those are the most demeaning movies to the black race that I have ever seen in my life. Blacks seem to think they are pretty funny. Now we are going to have to change the names of our horses such as Confederate Leader so we do not offend anyone. My son's farm is Rebel Farms. He is a southern boy thru and thru; he is very proud of his HERITAGE not HATRED. He flies a Confederate flag on his ponds. His gf is a barrel racer, and she asked me last night what would happen when she's hauling her horses in a trailer with Rebel Farms on the side? Would someone hurt her horses or her or run over her trailer. . . . I told her at this point I have no answer for that. And that's simply awful to have to tell a young girl she might not be safe because of the stupidity going on right now. Suggest going armed and be prepared to defend herself and her horses. Trust me when I say she could handle the "being armed" part!! Laura would protect her horses to the end. And Lord help them if he's hauling with her. . . I sent your "myth and fact" post to Chandler. He said "she sure knows her stuff"!! As I posted before, he knew more on this----the truth----than I did. He had already told me several of the things you listed that I was totally wrong on.
I'm picturing hauling that trailer through Crime Bluff, and it ain't pretty. |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
          Location: Bastrop, Texas | I've had a chance to read up more since last night on Lincoln's plans to ship Blacks out of the U.S. it does sound like he thought very seriously to ship at least some of the freed slaves out to Caribbean islands so they could continue work on plantations there and he also thought it was a good idea to ship blacks back to Africa....to Liberia, to be exact. I thought he wanted to allow them to return to their homelands, but it turns out he did not think blacks and whites could live together peaceably, especially in the aftermath of the war. Obviously, he had to know that he wouldn't be able to forcibly deport all 2 million blacks.
The Emancipation Proclamation really didn't free many slaves at all, because when it was issued, the CSA was already formed. It was more symbolic than anything.
Border states that were slave states, but loyal to the Union, were essentially granted exemptions, in fact. It wasn't until the passage of the 13th amendment that slaves were actually free.
How all of this is relevant to today is that, at the time, slavery was protected by the constitution. The south saw Lincoln as a tyrant who posed a threat to their soverignty. Northerners looked down their noses on the agrarian south even though they benefitted hugely from the byproducts of slavery.
The real pertinent question is whether we could ever see anything like the Civil War today. Will our great great grandchildren look back on this era as the birth of a new nation, vastly different from the one we are living in today? Will Obama's obvious goal of creating divisions and chaos lead to a United Socialist States of America, or will there be two nations, one completely socialist, and the other adhering to the freedoms espoused by our founding fathers? USA vs. USSA?
One thing I do thing for sure is something huge is looming over the horizon. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
       
| Not long after the beginning of Obama's first term began, someone paid to have a billboard put up in Marshall TX. It had picture of Obama on it and said, Vote for OBama? Embarrassed yet? I wonder if the person who put it up had good foresight or what?
Proud Daughter of the Confederacy and always will be.
Edited by streakysox 2015-06-28 10:36 AM
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  Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
     Location: In a happy place | foundation horse - 2015-06-27 1:05 PM This info is pertinent to this thread: History books, the media, the school systems, etc abound in falsehoods and inaccuracies of Confederate and Southern history. This fact sheet will help to clarify and dispell some of these rampant inaccuracies. MYTH - The War of 1861 - 1865 was fought over slavery. FACT - Terribly untrue. The North fought the war over money. Plain and simple. When the South started Secession, Lincoln was asked, "Why not let the South go in peace?" To which he replied, "I can't let them go. Who would pay for the government?" Sensing total financial ruin for the North, Lincoln waged war on the South. The South fought the War to repel Northern aggression and invasion. MYTH - Only Southerners owned slaves. FACT - Entirely untrue. Many Northern civilians owned slaves. Prior to, during and even after the War Of Northern Aggression. Surprisingly, to many history impaired individuals, most Union Generals and staff had slaves to serve them! William T. Sherman had many slaves that served him until well after the war was over and did not free them until late in 1865. U.S. Grant also had several slaves, who were only freed after the 13th amendment in December of 1865. When asked why he didn't free his slaves earlier, Grant stated "Good help is so hard to come by these days." Contrarily, Confederate General Robert E. Lee freed his slaves (which he never purchased - they were inherited) in 1862!!! Lee freed his slaves several years before the war was over, and considerably earlier than his Northern counterparts. And during the fierce early days of the war when the South was obliterating the Yankee armies! Lastly, and most importantly, why did NORTHERN States outlaw slavery only AFTER the war was over? The so-called "Emancipation Proclamation" of Lincoln only gave freedom to slaves in the SOUTH! NOT in the North! This pecksniffery even went so far as to find the state of Delaware rejecting the 13th Amendment in December of 1865 and did not ratify it (13th Amendment / free the slaves) until 1901! MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag was flown on slave ships. FACT - NONE of the flags of the Confederacy or Southern Nation ever flew over a slave ship. Nor did the South own or operate any slaves ships. The English, the Dutch and the Portugese brought slaves to this country, not the Southern Nation. BUT, even more monumental, it is also very important to know and understand that Federal, Yankee, Union ships brought slaves to America! These ships were from the New England states, and their hypocrisy is atrocious. These Federals were ones that ended up crying the loudest about slavery. But without their ships, many of the slaves would have never arrived here. They made countless fortunes on the delivery of slaves as well as the products madefrom raw materials such as cotton and tobacco in the South. This is the problem with Yankee history History is overwhelmingly portrayed incorrectly by most of the Federal & Yankee books and media. MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag represented the Southern Nation. FACT - Not true. While the Southern Battle flag was carried into battle, the Southern Nation had 3 different National flags during the course of the war. The First National flag was changed due to a resemblance of the US flag. The Second National flag was subsequently modified due to the similarity to a flag of truce. The Third National flag was the adopted flag of the Confederacy. The Confederate Battle Flag was never a National Flag of the Confederacy. It was carried into battle by several armies such as the Army Of Northen Virginia and the Army of Tennessee. Was also used as a Naval Jack by the Confederate Navy. MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag is known as the "Stars & Bars". FACT - A common misconception. The First National Confederate Flag is correctly known as the "Stars & Bars". The Confederate Battle Flag is known as the "Southern Cross". MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag represents racism today. FACT - The Confederate Battle Flag today finds itself in the center of much controversy and hoopla going on in several states. The cry to take this flag down is unjustified. It is very important to keep in mind that the Confederate Battle Flag was simply just that. A battle flag. It was never even a National flag, so how could it have flown over a slave nation or represented slavery or racism? This myth is continued by lack of education and ignorance. Those that villify the Confederate Battle Flag are very confused about history and have jumped upon a bandwagon with loose wheels. MYTH - The United States Flag represented freedom. FACT - No chance. The US flag flew over a slave nation for over 85 years! The North tolerated slavery and acknowledged it as a Division Of Labor. The North made a vast fortune on slavery and it's commodities. It wasn't until the South decided to leave the Union that the North objected. The North knew it could not survive without the Southern money. That is the true definition of hypocrisy. MYTH - Abraham Lincoln was the Great Emancipator. FACT - While Lincoln has went down in history as the Great Emancipator, many would not care to hear his real thoughts on people of color. Martyred President Abraham Lincoln was fervently making plans to send all freed slaves to the jungles of Central America once the war was over. Knowing that African society would never allow the slaves to return back to Africa, Lincoln also did not want the slaves in the US. He thought the jungles of Central America would be the best solution and conducive to the freed slaves best interest. The only thing that kept this from happening, was his assassination. MYTH - The South revered slavery. FACT - A very interesting fact on slavery is that at the time the War of 1861 -1865 officially commenced, the Southern States were actually in the process of freeing all slaves in the South. Russia had freed it's servants in 1859, and the South took great note of this. Had military intervention not been forced upon the South, a very different America would have been realized then as well as now. MYTH - The Confederate Army was comprised of rich slave owners. FACT - Very far from true. The vast majority of soldiers in the Confederate Army were simple men of meager income. Most of which were hard working farmers and common men. Then, as now, very few rich men ever fight a war. MYTH - Only the North had men of color in their ranks. FACT - Quite simply a major falsehood of history. Many blacks, both free and of their own will, joined the Confederate Army to fight for their beloved Southern home. Additionally, men of other ethnic extraction fought as well. Oriental, Mexican & Spanish men as well as Native American Indians fought with pride for the South. Today, many men of color are members in the heritage group SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans. These men of color and pride rejoice in their heritage. The continued attacks on the Southern Nation, The Confederacy, and her symbols are a terrible outrage to these fine people. These attacks should be denounced with as much fervor as those who denounce the South. MYTH - The Confederate Flags are an authorized symbol of Aryan, KKK and hate groups. FACT - Quite the contrary. These dispicable organizations such as the KKK and Aryans have taken a hallowed piece of history, and have plagued good Southern folks and the memories of fine Confederate Soldiers that fought under the flag with their perverse agenda. IN NO WAY does the Confederate Flag represent hate or violence. Heritage groups such as the SCV battle daily the damage done to a proud nation by these hate groups. The SCV denounces all hate groups, and pridefully boast HERITAGE - NOT HATE. MYTH - The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are a racist, hate group. FACT - This is a blatant attack on one of the finest heritage groups ever. The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are a historical, patriotic and non-political organization comprised of descendents of Confederate Soldiers and sailors dedicated to insuring that a true history of the 1861 -1865 period is preserved and presented to the public. The SCV continues to educate the public of the memory and reputation of the Confederate soldier as well as the motives for his suffering and sacrifice. The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are in NO WAY affiliated with, nor does it recognize or condone the terrible legacy of hate groups such as the KKK.
          Great information. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | Bear - 2015-06-27 11:18 PM Clay, those are very interesting points, and I appreciate it. Most of these I was aware of, but for a couple. First, you said that Lincoln had made plans to ship all blacks out of the country. Where can I find this information, because that does surprise me. I've never heard that before. Second.....who actually started the Civil War? Clearly both sides were preparing for an eventual war, because it was a powder keg ready to blow, but who actually started the war? Also, do you see anything like the Civil War as a possibility today? I can actually see insurrection and uprisings as a distinct possibility in today's America. A few years ago talk of this sort of thing, along with secession seemed far fetched, but today it doesn't seem far fetched at all. The big difference is the ideological divide can not be neatly divided geographically. I honestly think we are circling the drain. Even if the GOP sweep the elections in 2016, I have very little faith that the vitally important issues facing us will not be addressed in any substantial way. The GOP, for the most part, is full of hot air. Most of them will not be willing to commit to taking the bold steps necessary to right the ship. What would happen if Texas secceeded from the Union? Is that even a real possibility?
I learned about deporting the slaves when I was in High School but I was told they were sending them back home to Africa. I had a great History teacher and he always spoke about what historians wanted us to know and what they didn't and how so many facts were ignored and not put into history books. That always made a lot of sense to me. You can look at what is going on now and how totally different one side reports the "facts" over the other side.
Here is a perfect example of two sides but they both agree Lincoln, in fact, was planning on deporting blacks. Some say it would be voluntary.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/feb/9/book-lincoln-sought-to-deport-freed-slaves/?page=all http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jun/26/blog-posting/did-abraham-lincoln-plan-send-ex-slaves-central-am/
http://www.history.com/news/5-things-you-may-not-know-about-lincoln-slavery-and-emancipation |
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 Knowledge is Power
Posts: 4051
    Location: wherever my daughter's running | Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-28 10:33 AM
The war started at Ft Sumpter in SC, right? I don't remember who fired the first shots tho.
The South fired the first shot from the batteries of Charleston to Ft. Sumter which was occupied by Union soldiers. The Union was given the opportunity to leave Ft. Sumter - but refused. Lincoln played an excellent game of chess coaxing the South to fire first. The cannons blasted for over 24 hours. The Union was out of supplies and the Confederate ships had access to the harbor blocked - so the Union ships could not get supplies to their men at Ft. Sumter. The Union surrendered. The US flag flying over Ft. Sumter was damaged during the battle. This further angered northerners. Near the end of the war Lincoln gave the order to stop providing food and water to confederate prisoners. Some died from dehydration in the end. Lots of true Southern history was handed down from generation to generation on front porches. Some accounts of things were written dare I say a little slanted |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
          Location: Bastrop, Texas | cruise - 2015-06-28 4:14 PM
Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-28 10:33 AM
The war started at Ft Sumpter in SC, right? I don't remember who fired the first shots tho.
The South fired the first shot from the batteries of Charleston to Ft. Sumter which was occupied by Union soldiers. The Union was given the opportunity to leave Ft. Sumter - but refused. Lincoln played an excellent game of chess coaxing the South to fire first. The cannons blasted for over 24 hours. The Union was out of supplies and the Confederate ships had access to the harbor blocked - so the Union ships could not get supplies to their men at Ft. Sumter. The Union surrendered. The US flag flying over Ft. Sumter was damaged during the battle. This further angered northerners. Near the end of the war Lincoln gave the order to stop providing food and water to confederate prisoners. Some died from dehydration in the end. Lots of true Southern history was handed down from generation to generation on front porches. Some accounts of things were written dare I say a little slanted
Let's be honest here. The prisoners on both sides were treated harshly and subject to horrendous cruelty. Libby prison in Richmond was death trap. |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
          Location: Bastrop, Texas | Nevertooold - 2015-06-28 11:38 AM
Bear - 2015-06-27 11:18 PM Clay, those are very interesting points, and I appreciate it. Most of these I was aware of, but for a couple. First, you said that Lincoln had made plans to ship all blacks out of the country. Where can I find this information, because that does surprise me. I've never heard that before. Second.....who actually started the Civil War? Clearly both sides were preparing for an eventual war, because it was a powder keg ready to blow, but who actually started the war? Also, do you see anything like the Civil War as a possibility today? I can actually see insurrection and uprisings as a distinct possibility in today's America. A few years ago talk of this sort of thing, along with secession seemed far fetched, but today it doesn't seem far fetched at all. The big difference is the ideological divide can not be neatly divided geographically. I honestly think we are circling the drain. Even if the GOP sweep the elections in 2016, I have very little faith that the vitally important issues facing us will not be addressed in any substantial way. The GOP, for the most part, is full of hot air. Most of them will not be willing to commit to taking the bold steps necessary to right the ship. What would happen if Texas secceeded from the Union? Is that even a real possibility?
I learned about deporting the slaves when I was in High School but I was told they were sending them back home to Africa. I had a great History teacher and he always spoke about what historians wanted us to know and what they didn't and how so many facts were ignored and not put into history books. That always made a lot of sense to me. You can look at what is going on now and how totally different one side reports the "facts" over the other side.
Here is a perfect example of two sides but they both agree Lincoln, in fact, was planning on deporting blacks. Some say it would be voluntary.http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/feb/9/book-lincoln-sought-to-deport-freed-slaves/?page=all http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jun/26/blog-posting/did-abraham-lincoln-plan-send-ex-slaves-central-am/http://www.history.com/news/5-things-you-may-not-know-about-lincoln-slavery-and-emancipation
There were 2 million slaves at the outbreak of the Civil War. No way would he have been able to deport them. Even half would have been very tough. Even if he could have gotten half of them farmed out or deported, I don't see how it would have made much difference in the grand scheme of things. |
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Common Sense and then some
         Location: So. California | My son's farm is Rebel Farms. He is a southern boy thru and thru; he is very proud of his HERITAGE not HATRED. He flies a Confederate flag on his ponds. His gf is a barrel racer, and she asked me last night what would happen when she's hauling her horses in a trailer with Rebel Farms on the side? Would someone hurt her horses or her or run over her trailer. . . . I told her at this point I have no answer for that. And that's simply awful to have to tell a young girl she might not be safe because of the stupidity going on right now.
I would tell her to be very careful, there are always crazies out there. The reason for this entire thread is that a young man with hatred in his heart, MURDERED innocent people in a church. That should tell you that there are crazy, hate filled, misguided people everywhere.... |
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 Knowledge is Power
Posts: 4051
    Location: wherever my daughter's running | Bear - 2015-06-28 5:40 PM
cruise - 2015-06-28 4:14 PM
Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-28 10:33 AM
The war started at Ft Sumpter in SC, right? I don't remember who fired the first shots tho.
The South fired the first shot from the batteries of Charleston to Ft. Sumter which was occupied by Union soldiers. The Union was given the opportunity to leave Ft. Sumter - but refused. Lincoln played an excellent game of chess coaxing the South to fire first. The cannons blasted for over 24 hours. The Union was out of supplies and the Confederate ships had access to the harbor blocked - so the Union ships could not get supplies to their men at Ft. Sumter. The Union surrendered. The US flag flying over Ft. Sumter was damaged during the battle. This further angered northerners. Near the end of the war Lincoln gave the order to stop providing food and water to confederate prisoners. Some died from dehydration in the end. Lots of true Southern history was handed down from generation to generation on front porches. Some accounts of things were written dare I say a little slanted
Let's be honest here. The prisoners on both sides were treated harshly and subject to horrendous cruelty. Libby prison in Richmond was death trap.
I an being honest. I don't disagree about the treatment on both sides. I will say there is a huge difference in having the means to feed prisoners as did the north vs. not having the means to feed prisoners as did the south. Both sides had over populated prisons - both sides were I'll prepared to house such large numbers but one did not have the means to feed but did what they could. The other had the means to feed but refused to. |
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  Semper Fi
             Location: North Texas | Bear - 2015-06-27 11:18 PM
Clay, those are very interesting points, and I appreciate it. Most of these I was aware of, but for a couple.
First, you said that Lincoln had made plans to ship all blacks out of the country. Where can I find this information, because that does surprise me. I've never heard that before.
Second.....who actually started the Civil War? Clearly both sides were preparing for an eventual war, because it was a powder keg ready to blow, but who actually started the war?
Also, do you see anything like the Civil War as a possibility today? I can actually see insurrection and uprisings as a distinct possibility in today's America. A few years ago talk of this sort of thing, along with secession seemed far fetched, but today it doesn't seem far fetched at all. The big difference is the ideological divide can not be neatly divided geographically.
I honestly think we are circling the drain. Even if the GOP sweep the elections in 2016, I have very little faith that the vitally important issues facing us will not be addressed in any substantial way. The GOP, for the most part, is full of hot air.
Most of them will not be willing to commit to taking the bold steps necessary to right the ship.
What would happen if Texas secceeded from the Union? Is that even a real possibility?
The idea of Lincoln shipping slaves out of America after the Civil War is buried in history texts. The African Country of Liberia is where Lincoln wanted to send them. Liberia is a nation founded by Freed Slaves. And Freed Slaves not blacks. Also going to 1791 a free black man sued and won in court the right to own slaves. This is historical fact that is not taught in history classes either. Lincoln was killed prior to attempting to complete his post Civil War Plan in regards to Freed Slaves.
And while The Civil War's first shot was fired at Ft. Sumter S.C. by The Seceded State of South Carolina, She was provoked by a Northern Naval Blockade!
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
       
| Just for curiosity, has anyone ever heard of Melrose Plantation near Natchitoches LA? It was owned by a free woman of color who owned quite a few slaves. Her plantation was actually given to her by her owner who was the father of her children. Her descendants still own it today. I bet most people in the US know very little about her. Bet most people would like to forget that part of history too. |
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 Expert
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       Location: Missouri | streakysox - 2015-06-28 8:08 PM
Just for curiosity, has anyone ever heard of Melrose Plantation near Natchitoches LA? It was owned by a free woman of color who owned quite a few slaves. Her plantation was actually given to her by her owner who was the father of her children. Her descendants still own it today. I bet most people in the US know very little about her. Bet most people would like to forget that part of history too.
I haven't! I'll have to look this up! (That is, if any credible info can be found given the circumstances....) |
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          Location: Bastrop, Texas | foundation horse - 2015-06-28 7:46 PM
Bear - 2015-06-27 11:18 PM
Clay, those are very interesting points, and I appreciate it. Most of these I was aware of, but for a couple.
First, you said that Lincoln had made plans to ship all blacks out of the country. Where can I find this information, because that does surprise me. I've never heard that before.
Second.....who actually started the Civil War? Clearly both sides were preparing for an eventual war, because it was a powder keg ready to blow, but who actually started the war?
Also, do you see anything like the Civil War as a possibility today? I can actually see insurrection and uprisings as a distinct possibility in today's America. A few years ago talk of this sort of thing, along with secession seemed far fetched, but today it doesn't seem far fetched at all. The big difference is the ideological divide can not be neatly divided geographically.
I honestly think we are circling the drain. Even if the GOP sweep the elections in 2016, I have very little faith that the vitally important issues facing us will not be addressed in any substantial way. The GOP, for the most part, is full of hot air.
Most of them will not be willing to commit to taking the bold steps necessary to right the ship.
What would happen if Texas secceeded from the Union? Is that even a real possibility?
The idea of Lincoln shipping slaves out of America after the Civil War is buried in history texts. The African Country of Liberia is where Lincoln wanted to send them. Liberia is a nation founded by Freed Slaves. And Freed Slaves not blacks. Also going to 1791 a free black man sued and won in court the right to own slaves. This is historical fact that is not taught in history classes either. Lincoln was killed prior to attempting to complete his post Civil War Plan in regards to Freed Slaves.
And while The Civil War's first shot was fired at Ft. Sumter S.C. by The Seceded State of South Carolina, She was provoked by a Northern Naval Blockade!
It sounds to me that he definitely had a plan to relocate at least some of them. As to whether he was planning on doing it forceably will probably never be settled. Liberia has always credited the USA for it's formation. I think president Monroe was president at the time, hence the name of their Capitol, Monrovia. My impression is that Lincoln scrapped the idea, possibly mainly because he had bigger fish to fry, in the aftermath of the war and reconstruction.
So the first shots were fired by the South. Just like the first shots of the war with Japan was fired by the Japanese, who also claimed they were provoked by the oil embargo and the freezing of Japanese assets. Same thing.
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      Location: Arkansas | Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-28 9:34 AM
Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-28 12:02 AM foundation horse - 2015-06-27 11:20 PM Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-27 11:07 PM streakysox - 2015-06-27 5:16 PM I have done extensive genealogy and though most of my ancestors were from the South, the only ones who owned slaves lived in Connecticut. The men who fought from the South were volunteers, a very few were conscripted (drafted). Almost all of the men who served from the North were conscripted. It does not matter what the issues were that caused the war, the North would have an army. As for the people who are wanting to change history,their argument about the flag is totally incorrect. The flag they are protesting, only represented a very small number of Southern soldiers. Google 1st National, 2nd National, and 3rd national flags of the Confederacy. It is easy to see that someone has not been taught correctly or has formed their own opinion. Look up the speech from the black congressman who spoke in favor of adopting the Mississippi state flag.(I can't cut and paste on my tablet). It is a good rêead. You cannot change history. You cannot leave out the parts that you don't like. Our history is what has made us what we are no matter what color our skin is. One last thing about the Sons of Confederate Veterans, it is an organization that strives to preserve the history of the Civil War. Many of the men are involved in the reenactments but many are not. It is a genealogy and religious organization. I got my husband in it and have helped several others to become members. I am a proud member of United Daughters of the Confederacy which is also a genealogy and religious organization. As for Gone With the Wind, have any of you seen the movies Next Friday or Friday After Next (I believe those are the names)? Those are the most demeaning movies to the black race that I have ever seen in my life. Blacks seem to think they are pretty funny. Now we are going to have to change the names of our horses such as Confederate Leader so we do not offend anyone. My son's farm is Rebel Farms. He is a southern boy thru and thru; he is very proud of his HERITAGE not HATRED. He flies a Confederate flag on his ponds. His gf is a barrel racer, and she asked me last night what would happen when she's hauling her horses in a trailer with Rebel Farms on the side? Would someone hurt her horses or her or run over her trailer. . . . I told her at this point I have no answer for that. And that's simply awful to have to tell a young girl she might not be safe because of the stupidity going on right now. Suggest going armed and be prepared to defend herself and her horses. Trust me when I say she could handle the "being armed" part!! Laura would protect her horses to the end. And Lord help them if he's hauling with her. . . I sent your "myth and fact" post to Chandler. He said "she sure knows her stuff"!! As I posted before, he knew more on this----the truth----than I did. He had already told me several of the things you listed that I was totally wrong on.
I'm picturing hauling that trailer through Crime Bluff, and it ain't pretty.
Right now she's running pretty local----to Monroe LA, Jackson MS, and small SE AR shows and spots in between. But they will expand out and I worry. Guess someone else's freedoms and feeling of being "oppressed" means she and Chandler won't have the freedom to put their farm name on their trailer. And that down right pi$$es me off. |
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| Itsme - 2015-06-28 10:27 PM

Hmmm They are all carrying an American Flag not a Confederate flag. |
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| I took this picture in Marshall TX 4-9-10. I think these billboards lease for about $400 a month and this was up for about 4 or 5 months.
(OBAMA SIGN small image.jpg)
Attachments ----------------
OBAMA SIGN small image.jpg (93KB - 167 downloads)
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      Location: Arkansas | Nevertooold - 2015-06-28 11:38 AM
Bear - 2015-06-27 11:18 PM Clay, those are very interesting points, and I appreciate it. Most of these I was aware of, but for a couple. First, you said that Lincoln had made plans to ship all blacks out of the country. Where can I find this information, because that does surprise me. I've never heard that before. Second.....who actually started the Civil War? Clearly both sides were preparing for an eventual war, because it was a powder keg ready to blow, but who actually started the war? Also, do you see anything like the Civil War as a possibility today? I can actually see insurrection and uprisings as a distinct possibility in today's America. A few years ago talk of this sort of thing, along with secession seemed far fetched, but today it doesn't seem far fetched at all. The big difference is the ideological divide can not be neatly divided geographically. I honestly think we are circling the drain. Even if the GOP sweep the elections in 2016, I have very little faith that the vitally important issues facing us will not be addressed in any substantial way. The GOP, for the most part, is full of hot air. Most of them will not be willing to commit to taking the bold steps necessary to right the ship. What would happen if Texas secceeded from the Union? Is that even a real possibility?
I learned about deporting the slaves when I was in High School but I was told they were sending them back home to Africa. I had a great History teacher and he always spoke about what historians wanted us to know and what they didn't and how so many facts were ignored and not put into history books. That always made a lot of sense to me. You can look at what is going on now and how totally different one side reports the "facts" over the other side.
Here is a perfect example of two sides but they both agree Lincoln, in fact, was planning on deporting blacks. Some say it would be voluntary.http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/feb/9/book-lincoln-sought-to-deport-freed-slaves/?page=all http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jun/26/blog-posting/did-abraham-lincoln-plan-send-ex-slaves-central-am/http://www.history.com/news/5-things-you-may-not-know-about-lincoln-slavery-and-emancipation
My son goes to a private Christian school, and when he comes home and tells me some of the things the history teacher tells them about slavery and the Civil War. . . I swear she wrote her own history. How can they get away with that? Why does history not have to be FACTUAL??? It is what it is, period. It happened and it isn't changeable. |
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      Location: Arkansas | Anniemae - 2015-06-28 4:47 PM
My son's farm is Rebel Farms. He is a southern boy thru and thru; he is very proud of his HERITAGE not HATRED. He flies a Confederate flag on his ponds. His gf is a barrel racer, and she asked me last night what would happen when she's hauling her horses in a trailer with Rebel Farms on the side? Would someone hurt her horses or her or run over her trailer. . . . I told her at this point I have no answer for that. And that's simply awful to have to tell a young girl she might not be safe because of the stupidity going on right now.
I would tell her to be very careful, there are always crazies out there. The reason for this entire thread is that a young man with hatred in his heart, MURDERED innocent people in a church. That should tell you that there are crazy, hate filled, misguided people everywhere....
Yes mam, and that terrifies me. That's why I say they don't have the freedom to put their name on their trailer cause someone else's freedom will be offended. What makes one person's right superior to the other person's? |
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      Location: Arkansas | streakysox - 2015-06-28 8:08 PM
Just for curiosity, has anyone ever heard of Melrose Plantation near Natchitoches LA? It was owned by a free woman of color who owned quite a few slaves. Her plantation was actually given to her by her owner who was the father of her children. Her descendants still own it today. I bet most people in the US know very little about her. Bet most people would like to forget that part of history too.
My mother took me on a trip years ago to tour the plantations in that area. (Think it was called The Pilgrimage??) We did go to Melrose Plantation, but I don't remember learning this info. Thanks for the lesson! I'm amazed at what I'm learning from this thread. |
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      Location: Arkansas | Itsme - 2015-06-28 10:27 PM

Would you just look at all those Confederate flags????
Sorry for taking over this page of the thread!
Edited by Chandler's Mom 2015-06-28 11:14 PM
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 Knowledge is Power
Posts: 4051
    Location: wherever my daughter's running | Speaking of Ft. Sumter ---- erasing histroy - I have a huge problem with erasing histroy - good or bad http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20150628/PC16/150629493/fort-sumter-furls-its-confederate-flags-probably-forever |
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| musikmaker - 2015-06-25 4:50 PM
banjomia - 2015-06-25 3:35 PM Murphy - 2015-06-25 12:57 PM banjomia - 2015-06-25 1:14 PM I am a staunch conservative and I struggle with the fact that no one recognizes the confederate battle flag as a symbol of racism. I am a bit shocked at what I read on these posts. I see an immediate stance of defiance and defense. I get that as it seems lately all we see and hear about is crimes committed against blacks by whites and all other crimes are blatantly ignored. I agree its out of control and it makes me ****ed off with resentment and wonder why our current administration and the lame stream media continues to divide our country...... BUT, The confederate battle flag was used as symbol of opposition to the civil rights act. That is a well known fact. It was adopted by both the KKK and the Dixiecrats. I completely understand why it is being asked to be removed. It is long over due. Symbols of racism do not belong anywhere.. KKK also carried the US flag. Should that be banned also?
It's a slippery slope. Where are lines drawn? Do we ban anything and everything offensive? NO..Once again you are missing the point of the confederate battle flag. The US flag was not founded and created for the intent of slavery. The Confederate battle flag was. Do you not understand that? The very meaning and creation of the confederate battle flag was because of the desire to fight against the government and the civil rights act. Comparing flying the US flag and the Confederate flags is like apples and oranges I'm not blaming you banjomia, I realize that we're not taught the truth in school & that is where we get most of our 'learnin', but, that's not correct...the civil war was about taxes....money...the north wanted to tax the cotton production, just like they later claimed the gold and silver from out west. It's always money & power. A little history that I find interesting and bizarre as I'm sure you do, too, but we forget that once upon a time the peasants of the world were not allowed to know how to read. It was a serious crime to be caught 'reading'! Why? Because mankind can control the illiterate much easier than the educated. In the 1800's in America the blacks were learning to read! They then freed themselves. Here we are today...and I really question our literacy, hence, the control that a governement is gaining on us...again.
I see this as a "stoop for that you'll stoop for this". It must stop, it's out of control!
"While many still debate the ultimate causes of the Civil War, Pulitzer Prize-winning author James McPherson writes that, "The Civil War started because of uncompromising differences between the free and slave states over the power of the national government to prohibit slavery in the territories that had not yet become states. When Abraham Lincoln won election in 1860 as the first Republican president on a platform pledging to keep slavery out of the territories, seven slave states in the deep South seceded and formed a new nation, the Confederate States of America. The incoming Lincoln administration and most of the Northern people refused to recognize the legitimacy of secession. They feared that it would discredit democracy and create a fatal precedent that would eventually fragment the no-longer United States into several small, squabbling countries."
You say it was about money..........but lets not confuse the two...slavery WAS money. The states seceded from the Union because they didn't want the government telling them they couldn't own slaves. |
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| Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-28 11:08 PM
streakysox - 2015-06-28 8:08 PM
Just for curiosity, has anyone ever heard of Melrose Plantation near Natchitoches LA? It was owned by a free woman of color who owned quite a few slaves. Her plantation was actually given to her by her owner who was the father of her children. Her descendants still own it today. I bet most people in the US know very little about her. Bet most people would like to forget that part of history too.
My mother took me on a trip years ago to tour the plantations in that area. (Think it was called The Pilgrimage?? ) We did go to Melrose Plantation, but I don't remember learning this info. Thanks for the lesson! I'm amazed at what I'm learning from this thread.
There is a home in Natchez MS that is named Melrose. It is actually a town house because it was in town. Ironically, it is now owned by the federal government as it is a national park. The Melrose in Natchitoches LA is not the same place and is still owned by Metoyers who are descendants of the original owner. I looked for information about Marie Coincoin owning slaves and the only site that had much information seemed to have a virus! |
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It was about States Rights.
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| barrelracr131 - 2015-06-26 7:42 AM
Symbols mean different things to different people.
The swastika has a much older meaning than the nazi association (it's actually a symbol from the eastern world, predating the nazi party by a very long time).... However, now that is how we view the symbol.
Growing up even in Indiana, many folks flew the rebel flag or had stuff with the flag on it and it was not associated with race. Of course, in the cities many folks see it as a racist symbol. I've seen black people wearing or having flag stickers and gear, so I highly doubt they are trying to use the symbol as a display of hatred for their own race. It means what folks want it to mean from their pov.
In the end, this is a pointless argument, which is only serving to distract the general public from the real problems in America that are impossible to tackle in a Twitter post or sound bite.
While we find many people who feel that the Confederate flag represents their heritage and sacrifice, I really think we would be hard pressed to find anyone who feels that a swastika represents anything good. If you do find something good that it does represent, enlighten me.
Proud Daughter of The Confederacy.
By the way, I fly the REAL Stars And Bars in my front yard.
Edited by streakysox 2015-06-29 10:07 AM
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
          Location: Bastrop, Texas | banjomia - 2015-06-29 9:34 AM
musikmaker - 2015-06-25 4:50 PM
banjomia - 2015-06-25 3:35 PM Murphy - 2015-06-25 12:57 PM banjomia - 2015-06-25 1:14 PM I am a staunch conservative and I struggle with the fact that no one recognizes the confederate battle flag as a symbol of racism. I am a bit shocked at what I read on these posts. I see an immediate stance of defiance and defense. I get that as it seems lately all we see and hear about is crimes committed against blacks by whites and all other crimes are blatantly ignored. I agree its out of control and it makes me ****ed off with resentment and wonder why our current administration and the lame stream media continues to divide our country...... BUT, The confederate battle flag was used as symbol of opposition to the civil rights act. That is a well known fact. It was adopted by both the KKK and the Dixiecrats. I completely understand why it is being asked to be removed. It is long over due. Symbols of racism do not belong anywhere.. KKK also carried the US flag. Should that be banned also?
It's a slippery slope. Where are lines drawn? Do we ban anything and everything offensive? NO..Once again you are missing the point of the confederate battle flag. The US flag was not founded and created for the intent of slavery. The Confederate battle flag was. Do you not understand that? The very meaning and creation of the confederate battle flag was because of the desire to fight against the government and the civil rights act. Comparing flying the US flag and the Confederate flags is like apples and oranges I'm not blaming you banjomia, I realize that we're not taught the truth in school & that is where we get most of our 'learnin', but, that's not correct...the civil war was about taxes....money...the north wanted to tax the cotton production, just like they later claimed the gold and silver from out west. It's always money & power. A little history that I find interesting and bizarre as I'm sure you do, too, but we forget that once upon a time the peasants of the world were not allowed to know how to read. It was a serious crime to be caught 'reading'! Why? Because mankind can control the illiterate much easier than the educated. In the 1800's in America the blacks were learning to read! They then freed themselves. Here we are today...and I really question our literacy, hence, the control that a governement is gaining on us...again.
I see this as a "stoop for that you'll stoop for this". It must stop, it's out of control!
"While many still debate the ultimate causes of the Civil War, Pulitzer Prize-winning author James McPherson writes that, "The Civil War started because of uncompromising differences between the free and slave states over the power of the national government to prohibit slavery in the territories that had not yet become states. When Abraham Lincoln won election in 1860 as the first Republican president on a platform pledging to keep slavery out of the territories, seven slave states in the deep South seceded and formed a new nation, the Confederate States of America. The incoming Lincoln administration and most of the Northern people refused to recognize the legitimacy of secession. They feared that it would discredit democracy and create a fatal precedent that would eventually fragment the no-longer United States into several small, squabbling countries."
You say it was about money..........but lets not confuse the two...slavery WAS money. The states seceded from the Union because they didn't want the government telling them they couldn't own slaves.
"King Cotton"....the south depended on it. The north profited from it. |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
          Location: Bastrop, Texas | So what about today? There's rumblings about states secceeding, like Texas for example. How can a state go about seccession from the union? What's to prevent them? How would the U.S. government react?
The more I think about it, the more I realize it will never happen, actually.
Edited by Bear 2015-06-29 10:30 AM
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
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          Location: Bastrop, Texas | foundation horse - 2015-06-28 7:46 PM
Bear - 2015-06-27 11:18 PM
Clay, those are very interesting points, and I appreciate it. Most of these I was aware of, but for a couple.
First, you said that Lincoln had made plans to ship all blacks out of the country. Where can I find this information, because that does surprise me. I've never heard that before.
Second.....who actually started the Civil War? Clearly both sides were preparing for an eventual war, because it was a powder keg ready to blow, but who actually started the war?
Also, do you see anything like the Civil War as a possibility today? I can actually see insurrection and uprisings as a distinct possibility in today's America. A few years ago talk of this sort of thing, along with secession seemed far fetched, but today it doesn't seem far fetched at all. The big difference is the ideological divide can not be neatly divided geographically.
I honestly think we are circling the drain. Even if the GOP sweep the elections in 2016, I have very little faith that the vitally important issues facing us will not be addressed in any substantial way. The GOP, for the most part, is full of hot air.
Most of them will not be willing to commit to taking the bold steps necessary to right the ship.
What would happen if Texas secceeded from the Union? Is that even a real possibility?
The idea of Lincoln shipping slaves out of America after the Civil War is buried in history texts. The African Country of Liberia is where Lincoln wanted to send them. Liberia is a nation founded by Freed Slaves. And Freed Slaves not blacks. Also going to 1791 a free black man sued and won in court the right to own slaves. This is historical fact that is not taught in history classes either. Lincoln was killed prior to attempting to complete his post Civil War Plan in regards to Freed Slaves.
And while The Civil War's first shot was fired at Ft. Sumter S.C. by The Seceded State of South Carolina, She was provoked by a Northern Naval Blockade!
It sounds to me that he definitely had a plan to relocate at least some of them. As to whether he was planning on doing it forceably will probably never be settled. Liberia has always credited the USA for it's formation. I think president Monroe was president at the time, hence the name of their Capitol, Monrovia. My impression is that Lincoln scrapped the idea, possibly mainly because he had bigger fish to fry, in the aftermath of the war and reconstruction.
So the first shots were fired by the South. Just like the first shots of the war with Japan was fired by the Japanese, who also claimed they were provoked by the oil embargo and the freezing of Japanese assets. Same thing.
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| Bear - 2015-06-29 10:27 AM
So what about today? There's rumblings about states secceeding, like Texas for example. How can a state go about seccession from the union? What's to prevent them? How would the U.S. government react?
The more I think about it, the more I realize it will never happen, actually.
TEXAS is the only state that can legally secede from the US because it was a nation before it was a state.
I might add that if TEXAS took the land back that it had as a Republic, it would include a large part of New Mexico and a strip that runs through the OK panhandle into Kansas. TEXAS had to relinquish its land above the Mason Dixon Line, which I think is the 32nd parallel in order to bea slave holding state.
Edited by streakysox 2015-06-29 10:39 AM
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 Proud to be Deplorable
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| Bear - 2015-06-29 10:27 AM
So what about today? There's rumblings about states secceeding, like Texas for example. How can a state go about seccession from the union? What's to prevent them? How would the U.S. government react?
The more I think about it, the more I realize it will never happen, actually.
It is huge gray area in the law. Maybe ,maybe not. Texas is the only state that really stands a chance based on how they entered the union. But even that is iffy. But if they decide to I am heading to Texas LOL!!!!!! |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
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          Location: Bastrop, Texas | It will never happen. Never. Ever. I would love to see it happen, but it won't.
Anyone care to guess why it will never happen? |
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| Bear - 2015-06-29 10:44 AM
It will never happen. Never. Ever. I would love to see it happen, but it won't.
Anyone care to guess why it will never happen?
Because we have a kajillion Mexicans with green cards that can vote for Democrats???? |
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| Bear - 2015-06-29 10:44 AM
It will never happen. Never. Ever. I would love to see it happen, but it won't.
Anyone care to guess why it will never happen?
Money. ie. Soc.Sec. Medicare, Medicad |
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
          Location: Washington | streakysox - 2015-06-29 8:04 AM barrelracr131 - 2015-06-26 7:42 AM Symbols mean different things to different people. The swastika has a much older meaning than the nazi association (it's actually a symbol from the eastern world, predating the nazi party by a very long time).... However, now that is how we view the symbol. Growing up even in Indiana, many folks flew the rebel flag or had stuff with the flag on it and it was not associated with race. Of course, in the cities many folks see it as a racist symbol. I've seen black people wearing or having flag stickers and gear, so I highly doubt they are trying to use the symbol as a display of hatred for their own race. It means what folks want it to mean from their pov. In the end, this is a pointless argument, which is only serving to distract the general public from the real problems in America that are impossible to tackle in a Twitter post or sound bite. While we find many people who feel that the Confederate flag represents their heritage and sacrifice, I really think we would be hard pressed to find anyone who feels that a swastika represents anything good. If you do find something good that it does represent, enlighten me. Proud Daughter of The Confederacy. By the way, I fly the REAL Stars And Bars in my front yard.
We are collectors of Native Amerian works, some especially the Navajo used the "whirling log" symbol which looks like the swastika in baskets and rugs and jewlery. The natives quit using this "well being" symbol once hitler got a hold of it. Just a little history for ya. ;-) |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
          Location: Bastrop, Texas | jbhoot - 2015-06-29 10:51 AM
Bear - 2015-06-29 10:44 AM
It will never happen. Never. Ever. I would love to see it happen, but it won't.
Anyone care to guess why it will never happen?
Money. ie. Soc.Sec. Medicare, Medicad
Exactly. It's because we are enslaved....chained to the government because they provide us for things we ought to have provided for ourselves. We are, in a sense, enslaved. Secceession would relieve the government of any obligations to the 4 million Texans over 65, not to mention the millions over the age of say, 50, who have been counting on SS and Medicare to deliver when they reach 65. The illegals would just flock to liberal states like Colorado and California. We're trapped. People have paid in to the system based on a promise to pay us back, even though the return is minuscule. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
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                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | Lincoln didn't scrap the idea of deporting slaves, he was shot before the civil war was over. |
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Posts: 25352
          Location: Bastrop, Texas | Nevertooold - 2015-06-29 12:09 PM
Lincoln didn't scrap the idea of deporting slaves, he was shot before the civil war was over.
Some say he did. How do you know for sure? It all depends on who you read. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
                    Location: In the Hills of Texas | Bear - 2015-06-29 12:41 PM Nevertooold - 2015-06-29 12:09 PM Lincoln didn't scrap the idea of deporting slaves, he was shot before the civil war was over. Some say he did. How do you know for sure? It all depends on who you read.
I guess because I believe what I read and was told back in the late 1960's over anything I read about it today in the world of Liberalism that write what they want to believe rather then the facts. |
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 Hawty & Nawty
Posts: 20424
       
| fatchance - 2015-06-30 9:12 AM
streakysox - 2015-06-29 8:04 AM barrelracr131 - 2015-06-26 7:42 AM Symbols mean different things to different people. The swastika has a much older meaning than the nazi association (it's actually a symbol from the eastern world, predating the nazi party by a very long time).... However, now that is how we view the symbol. Growing up even in Indiana, many folks flew the rebel flag or had stuff with the flag on it and it was not associated with race. Of course, in the cities many folks see it as a racist symbol. I've seen black people wearing or having flag stickers and gear, so I highly doubt they are trying to use the symbol as a display of hatred for their own race. It means what folks want it to mean from their pov. In the end, this is a pointless argument, which is only serving to distract the general public from the real problems in America that are impossible to tackle in a Twitter post or sound bite. While we find many people who feel that the Confederate flag represents their heritage and sacrifice, I really think we would be hard pressed to find anyone who feels that a swastika represents anything good. If you do find something good that it does represent, enlighten me. Proud Daughter of The Confederacy. By the way, I fly the REAL Stars And Bars in my front yard.
We are collectors of Native Amerian works, some especially the Navajo used the "whirling log" symbol which looks like the swastika in baskets and rugs and jewlery. The natives quit using this "well being" symbol once hitler got a hold of it. Just a little history for ya. ;-)
Absolutely!
Here's a weird but true story. When I was in the first grade, I was nervous as hell to be in the new big school. So I kept drawing that symbol on the top of Tipis. I think I drew several dozen of these when the teacher ripped the paper out of my hand and scolded me for the symbol. I was six years old. Back then I had no idea of my Native heritage and no idea what that symbol represented for anyone. I just wanted to keep drawing it to calm my nerves. When the teacher called my parents, then I learned about my history from my father who didn't mind telling the teacher where to stick it.
I've always been weird. LOL |
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 Expert
Posts: 1395
       Location: Missouri | streakysox - 2015-06-29 10:33 AM
Bear - 2015-06-29 10:27 AM
So what about today? There's rumblings about states secceeding, like Texas for example. How can a state go about seccession from the union? What's to prevent them? How would the U.S. government react?
The more I think about it, the more I realize it will never happen, actually.
TEXAS is the only state that can legally secede from the US because it was a nation before it was a state.
I might add that if TEXAS took the land back that it had as a Republic, it would include a large part of New Mexico and a strip that runs through the OK panhandle into Kansas. TEXAS had to relinquish its land above the Mason Dixon Line, which I think is the 32nd parallel in order to bea slave holding state.
I never knew that! Learning lots of things from this thread! |
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  Semper Fi
             Location: North Texas | MOGirl07 - 2015-06-29 3:42 PM
streakysox - 2015-06-29 10:33 AM
Bear - 2015-06-29 10:27 AM
So what about today? There's rumblings about states secceeding, like Texas for example. How can a state go about seccession from the union? What's to prevent them? How would the U.S. government react?
The more I think about it, the more I realize it will never happen, actually.
TEXAS is the only state that can legally secede from the US because it was a nation before it was a state.
I might add that if TEXAS took the land back that it had as a Republic, it would include a large part of New Mexico and a strip that runs through the OK panhandle into Kansas. TEXAS had to relinquish its land above the Mason Dixon Line, which I think is the 32nd parallel in order to bea slave holding state.
I never knew that! Learning lots of things from this thread!
Texas is also the only State that were it to do so, upon division would be five (5) different states! |
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Posts: 1395
       Location: Missouri | foundation horse - 2015-06-29 6:58 PM
MOGirl07 - 2015-06-29 3:42 PM
streakysox - 2015-06-29 10:33 AM
Bear - 2015-06-29 10:27 AM
So what about today? There's rumblings about states secceeding, like Texas for example. How can a state go about seccession from the union? What's to prevent them? How would the U.S. government react?
The more I think about it, the more I realize it will never happen, actually.
TEXAS is the only state that can legally secede from the US because it was a nation before it was a state.
I might add that if TEXAS took the land back that it had as a Republic, it would include a large part of New Mexico and a strip that runs through the OK panhandle into Kansas. TEXAS had to relinquish its land above the Mason Dixon Line, which I think is the 32nd parallel in order to bea slave holding state.
I never knew that! Learning lots of things from this thread!
Texas is also the only State that were it to do so, upon division would be five (5 ) different states!
What?! I wanna see a graphic of what it would look like! |
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  Semper Fi
             Location: North Texas | MOGirl07 - 2015-06-29 7:13 PM
foundation horse - 2015-06-29 6:58 PM
MOGirl07 - 2015-06-29 3:42 PM
streakysox - 2015-06-29 10:33 AM
Bear - 2015-06-29 10:27 AM
So what about today? There's rumblings about states secceeding, like Texas for example. How can a state go about seccession from the union? What's to prevent them? How would the U.S. government react?
The more I think about it, the more I realize it will never happen, actually.
TEXAS is the only state that can legally secede from the US because it was a nation before it was a state.
I might add that if TEXAS took the land back that it had as a Republic, it would include a large part of New Mexico and a strip that runs through the OK panhandle into Kansas. TEXAS had to relinquish its land above the Mason Dixon Line, which I think is the 32nd parallel in order to bea slave holding state.
I never knew that! Learning lots of things from this thread!
Texas is also the only State that were it to do so, upon division would be five (5 ) different states!
What?! I wanna see a graphic of what it would look like!
I have not seen the graphic, but heard this verbally on Sean Hannity years ago (Radio Program) from Dick Cheney's Wife Lynn. |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
      
| foundation horse - 2015-06-29 7:25 PM
MOGirl07 - 2015-06-29 7:13 PM
foundation horse - 2015-06-29 6:58 PM
MOGirl07 - 2015-06-29 3:42 PM
streakysox - 2015-06-29 10:33 AM
Bear - 2015-06-29 10:27 AM
So what about today? There's rumblings about states secceeding, like Texas for example. How can a state go about seccession from the union? What's to prevent them? How would the U.S. government react?
The more I think about it, the more I realize it will never happen, actually.
TEXAS is the only state that can legally secede from the US because it was a nation before it was a state.
I might add that if TEXAS took the land back that it had as a Republic, it would include a large part of New Mexico and a strip that runs through the OK panhandle into Kansas. TEXAS had to relinquish its land above the Mason Dixon Line, which I think is the 32nd parallel in order to bea slave holding state.
I never knew that! Learning lots of things from this thread!
Texas is also the only State that were it to do so, upon division would be five (5 ) different states!
What?! I wanna see a graphic of what it would look like!
I have not seen the graphic, but heard this verbally on Sean Hannity years ago (Radio Program ) from Dick Cheney's Wife Lynn.
I looked this up a couple years back. Texas can split into five states IF the voters of Texas and the 2/3 of the other states approve. I have never seen a map of a proposal thou. |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas | Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-28 9:34 AM
Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-28 12:02 AM foundation horse - 2015-06-27 11:20 PM Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-27 11:07 PM streakysox - 2015-06-27 5:16 PM I have done extensive genealogy and though most of my ancestors were from the South, the only ones who owned slaves lived in Connecticut. The men who fought from the South were volunteers, a very few were conscripted (drafted). Almost all of the men who served from the North were conscripted. It does not matter what the issues were that caused the war, the North would have an army. As for the people who are wanting to change history,their argument about the flag is totally incorrect. The flag they are protesting, only represented a very small number of Southern soldiers. Google 1st National, 2nd National, and 3rd national flags of the Confederacy. It is easy to see that someone has not been taught correctly or has formed their own opinion. Look up the speech from the black congressman who spoke in favor of adopting the Mississippi state flag.(I can't cut and paste on my tablet). It is a good rêead. You cannot change history. You cannot leave out the parts that you don't like. Our history is what has made us what we are no matter what color our skin is. One last thing about the Sons of Confederate Veterans, it is an organization that strives to preserve the history of the Civil War. Many of the men are involved in the reenactments but many are not. It is a genealogy and religious organization. I got my husband in it and have helped several others to become members. I am a proud member of United Daughters of the Confederacy which is also a genealogy and religious organization. As for Gone With the Wind, have any of you seen the movies Next Friday or Friday After Next (I believe those are the names)? Those are the most demeaning movies to the black race that I have ever seen in my life. Blacks seem to think they are pretty funny. Now we are going to have to change the names of our horses such as Confederate Leader so we do not offend anyone. My son's farm is Rebel Farms. He is a southern boy thru and thru; he is very proud of his HERITAGE not HATRED. He flies a Confederate flag on his ponds. His gf is a barrel racer, and she asked me last night what would happen when she's hauling her horses in a trailer with Rebel Farms on the side? Would someone hurt her horses or her or run over her trailer. . . . I told her at this point I have no answer for that. And that's simply awful to have to tell a young girl she might not be safe because of the stupidity going on right now. Suggest going armed and be prepared to defend herself and her horses. Trust me when I say she could handle the "being armed" part!! Laura would protect her horses to the end. And Lord help them if he's hauling with her. . . I sent your "myth and fact" post to Chandler. He said "she sure knows her stuff"!! As I posted before, he knew more on this----the truth----than I did. He had already told me several of the things you listed that I was totally wrong on.
I'm picturing hauling that trailer through Crime Bluff, and it ain't pretty.
I hate to admit how slow I am sometimes---it took me til on the way to work this am to have my "aha" moment and realize what Crime Bluff was!!! |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas |
I'm just at a loss. . . . |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas | streakysox - 2015-06-29 9:49 AM
Chandler's Mom - 2015-06-28 11:08 PM
streakysox - 2015-06-28 8:08 PM
Just for curiosity, has anyone ever heard of Melrose Plantation near Natchitoches LA? It was owned by a free woman of color who owned quite a few slaves. Her plantation was actually given to her by her owner who was the father of her children. Her descendants still own it today. I bet most people in the US know very little about her. Bet most people would like to forget that part of history too.
My mother took me on a trip years ago to tour the plantations in that area. (Think it was called The Pilgrimage?? ) We did go to Melrose Plantation, but I don't remember learning this info. Thanks for the lesson! I'm amazed at what I'm learning from this thread.
There is a home in Natchez MS that is named Melrose. It is actually a town house because it was in town. Ironically, it is now owned by the federal government as it is a national park. The Melrose in Natchitoches LA is not the same place and is still owned by Metoyers who are descendants of the original owner. I looked for information about Marie Coincoin owning slaves and the only site that had much information seemed to have a virus!
Well imagine that, StreakySox---a virus on a site that might include inflammatory material in favor of some of that Southern TRUE history. . . . And I do remember it was Natchez. I sure did enjoy those trips and seeing those beautiful homes.
Edited by Chandler's Mom 2015-06-29 11:33 PM
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 Knowledge is Power
Posts: 4051
    Location: wherever my daughter's running | I am very afraid that what the evil person that murdered the 9 is going to accomplishment what he sat out to do. The pot is boiling. I hope it doesn't boil over. The debate to remove the flag will take place next week. http://www.foxcarolina.com/story/29437068/scdps-man-arrested-at-sta... |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
      Location: Arkansas | cruise - 2015-06-30 6:01 AM
I am very afraid that what the evil person that murdered the 9 is going to accomplishment what he sat out to do. The pot is boiling. I hope it doesn't boil over. The debate to remove the flag will take place next week. http://www.foxcarolina.com/story/29437068/scdps-man-arrested-at-sta...
There are such far reaching ripples from this now, I don't think the pot is just boiling, I think it's on fire. . . |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
       
| I have a question that has been bothering me. The people who were killed were older people for the most part. This was predominately a black church. Didn't anyone notice that sitting in the midst of everyone there was this young white pipsqueak? My black friends tell me that they can tell pretty quick if a white person does not like them. They could not see this? I think he just decided to go kill someone and these older people were such an easy target that would not resist. |
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
   Location: SE Louisiana | streakysox - 2015-07-02 4:05 AM
I have a question that has been bothering me. The people who were killed were older people for the most part. This was predominately a black church. Didn't anyone notice that sitting in the midst of everyone there was this young white pipsqueak? My black friends tell me that they can tell pretty quick if a white person does not like them. They could not see this? I think he just decided to go kill someone and these older people were such an easy target that would not resist.
I'm sorry... Does the church you attend have age and color requirements? |
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 Knowledge is Power
Posts: 4051
    Location: wherever my daughter's running | streakysox - 2015-07-02 5:05 AM
I have a question that has been bothering me. The people who were killed were older people for the most part. This was predominately a black church. Didn't anyone notice that sitting in the midst of everyone there was this young white pipsqueak? My black friends tell me that they can tell pretty quick if a white person does not like them. They could not see this? I think he just decided to go kill someone and these older people were such an easy target that would not resist.
My thoughts - the person responsible for their murders was acting alone. I seriously doubt he any real ties to white supremacist groups. He had researched this church. He knew the Bible study was being held - even though it was held much later on this night than usual due to another event at the church. A chilling thing that this person admitted was that after sitting in the Bible study he almost changed his mind. I think the dear souls were true believers and would welcome anyone in the church for opportunity to reach them. There are so many visitors to Charleston I think people have attended events at this church before that had never been there before. Based on the reactions from family members at the hearing these people had unshakable belief and would question no one that they thought may be a lost soul. In the last moments of their lives they were living for Christ. I believe everything happens for a reason. I don't think the full reason for this has been recognized. I think the leaders of this state and others in the south should be on their knees asking for guidance instead of jerking their knees and creating more of a devide. Charleston set a wonderful example to the world in the way they responded. Unfortunately the ripples of this horrible crime are what is receiving the most attention. Yes, most were older and that may well be why he chose the Bible study instead of a Sunday morning service.
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