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Posts: 227
 
Location: Soon to be outta here:) | I have a crazy fast little mare. She's pretty. Those are her good things lol. She's broke to death off barrels, I ride her in a snaffle, she works like a charm. She's off the track and the girl who bought her started her too fast too soon so I bought her quite a bit blown up. Anyone who has any sort of advice at all, please share. We do tons of slow work, rate every single time we get to a barrel (in drills or on a pattern) work on keeping her shoulders up and hip under her.
I'm going to try and attach some videos here, hopefully I can figure it out lol
Seriously any advice, please share. I'm 90% sure its all my that's causing her to run off, however I'm not sure what I should be doing instead to keep her from running off. So mostly advice on my riding would be great! Thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ5vhYywgBU
This is about three weeks ago, I ran her in a long shank cervi and a German martingale
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdaaSILNPiI
This was this Wednesday (7/1), I ran her in a long shank Charmayne James ported bit. A 15.7 won it and she ran a 16.5.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIHF_Kr6yPQ
This was earlier this year, in an ed and Martha Wright with a German
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2Tx5GzlKQc
Also earlier this year, same bit as the video above it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za5FUYLd-V4
Last fall, same set up as videos above
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CspBnugIJE
Last summer, back to the cervi and the German
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sOjCtTq63o
Last summer, cervi and German
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Rt0j-ZZ3P8
Fall of the first year I bought her, in a d ring
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Rt0j-ZZ3P8
Last summer, in the Charmayne James bit again I believe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq-Vst3pO9M
Last summer, in the cervi *I think* (start at 1:00)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUoskLbISkc
And my personal favorite, the first run I ever made on her.
I know some of the videos are probably blurry but anything you can see would be helpful! I'm desperate, this horse has so much potential, I just want to get her to work good!
Suggestions on bits too would be good.... the only barrel race we've ever won was in a million dollar bit. She does not like tie downs. She hits them coming out of barrels and stops. We do the German but I'm not sure I like her in it. She feels stiff and like she doesn't want to get down and work in it. (the first video I posted was right after she had her hocks done, chiroed, and went and saw a vet down in OK to work on her a little). So the first two videos are after she had all that work done. But I feel like she maybe needs something to keep that face down? Unless its my riding which is causing her to put it up. Which is very possible. Help please haha.
Thanks!!
I've been doing a ton of rate work with my horse, and I've been riding her in a different bit for everyday riding. I took her to a barrel race, and she's been working so good I decided to give her one more shot to run with nothing on her face.
This was the result of that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juzvSktN31o
So that was fun. She has never in her life done anything like that, she's usually comes in the arena very nice. So, any suggestions for that? I was so caught off guard I'm sure I didn't react right, but Ive never had a horse do that that bad and I didn't know what to do. She wasn't refusing to go in... she wanted to take off and reared when she went to take off. I don't know what happened on third, but she reared again.
I was unimpressed with that so I ran her in the second open and added a martingale:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpUk1D-gfpU
She went in like a champ but I really don't like her first in it. When I went to finish first I felt the martingale resist on how far I could move my hand to get her to come around. And second was my fault I finished her too hard.
I've decided we are for sure over running for a while until I figure this out more. She was working so amazing at home I was thinking it had maybe clicked. Clearly it hasn't.
What in the world do I do about that rearing? I'm not big inn almost flipping over backwards going in the gate.
Edited by LDH 2015-07-09 11:50 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| Have you tried just riding her outside the arena ie trail rides or pushing cattle on a ranch, if you can? No barrels, no drills! |
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Soon to be outta here:) | Yep! She only gets worked on barrels or drills once a week, at most two. We go on trail rides or I just lightly ride her to keep her in shape. If I do too much on barrels she gest hot so I avoid that. She works great off barrels, and she does beautiful slow work. Its just when we run which makes me think its just how I'm riding in a run |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| I have a horse that used to do the same thing! He was a roping horse that I switched to barrels. I think for a period of time when I first started, even though we did hours and hours of slow work, that when we ran into the arena, he was still looking for his steer. One thing that I might suggest is really emphasizing that sit, a stride before each barrel. Really sit hard, think that you need to slam your rear into the saddle and stay glued to your seat, your body language really really affects your horse. From what I saw in a couple of your runs is that your body language says "go" and you never really sit. Sit hard, and about a stride before you even get to the barrel, believe it or not, your horse will feel that and will rate.
Don't add speed too soon!! Don't push to first until your horse is confident, even if you have to lope to first for a year, do it!! Don't add too much speed until your horse is confident enough to handle it. I was in your shoes this winter and really sitting and taking things a little slower has made an incredible difference! I can send you my before and after videos if you'd like. Never Give Up! :)
Edited by IowaCanChaser 2015-07-03 10:19 PM
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
 
| I would quit running her. Start all over with basics. Get control of hips and shoulders. You might find a clinic near you that emphasizes basics. These are well worth the money and time. This horse has absolutely ño rate and the basics are not there. |
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  Texas Lone Star
Posts: 5318
Location: where ever my L/Q trl is parked | streakysox - 2015-07-03 12:40 PM I would quit running her. Start all over with basics. Get control of hips and shoulders. You might find a clinic near you that emphasizes basics. These are well worth the money and time. This horse has absolutely ño rate and the basics are not there.
I agree,,, I know you said when you slow her down she rates and turns....but she's a runaway freight train with speed.
I suggest getting professional help and I suggest Ed Wright- he's personable and will work with you and the horse till you get results.
Everyone here can give you suggestions, but imo you need pro help, not what we think might or might not work. If you like her enough and she looks like she has plenty of speed then the money you put towards help would be well worth it. Good luck
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 Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | Aqhaczy - 2015-07-03 12:56 PM streakysox - 2015-07-03 12:40 PM I would quit running her. Start all over with basics. Get control of hips and shoulders. You might find a clinic near you that emphasizes basics. These are well worth the money and time. This horse has absolutely ño rate and the basics are not there. I agree,,, I know you said when you slow her down she rates and turns....but she's a runaway freight train with speed.
I suggest getting professional help and I suggest Ed Wright- he's personable and will work with you and the horse till you get results.
Everyone here can give you suggestions, but imo you need pro help, not what we think might or might not work. If you like her enough and she looks like she has plenty of speed then the money you put towards help would be well worth it. Good luck
I agree. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | That one video where you run past the barrels theres no rate you dont help her at all and on the other videos I see a sore horse. |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| When I went back and finally watched the last video, I can see that this horse is not nearly ready to run this fast. As I said before, horse needs to be slowed down and taught fundamentals before you even think of running this speed.
Take a look at things you are doing. Jodi Nelson is a fantastic trainer and has had huge success in futurities. She had a horse that would work like world champion at home but not at a barrel race. She told me she asked herself what she did differently at home. She used split reins at home. The next barrel race she ran with split reins and placed in the 1D. Personally, I do not know how she ran in split reins. I am not saying run in split reins but do what works. I still think this horse needs fundamentals though.
Edited by streakysox 2015-07-03 10:05 PM
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 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | Southtxponygirl - 2015-07-03 3:30 PM That one video where you run past the barrels theres no rate you dont help her at all and on the other videos I see a sore horse.
This...I definitely saw no rate, and you kept pushing her, not rating her when you get to the barrels. As far as soreness, I'm not a good one at seeing it, especially in a video, unless a horse is three legged lame...I can feel it better when I'm on a horse than I can by seeing it...well, my own horses any ways. |
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Soon to be outta here:) | Thanks for all of the help! The very last video is the first run I ever made on her two years ago. The first video I posted is from this last week. She honestly has been working on fundamentals for two years, since I bought her. At home I ride her in a snaffle and she is light and responsive and works beautiful. I'm not saying that I have control of her hips and shoulders in her runs, because don't, she's a runaway for sure, but I do have it going slow. It just doesn't translate to our runs. One reason I wouldn't want to sell her is because she's so easy to ride outside the barrel arena. She doesn't ever get hot, she does exactly what I ask no questions asked, she can go on trail rides in south Dakota and flat footed walks the whole time. She is awesome to ride when not running a pattern. However, like someone said I really do think its me. Only a handful of other people have ran her, but one girl did amazing on her, had about a perfect pattern, and the other did pretty well too. But neither one of them was really able to tell me what they had done and what I need to do to run her.
As for her being sore, she just had her hocks injected less than two months ago, and has only had 4 runs since then, she gets chiroed every few months, she was just down to Oklahoma to a very well known vet who pretty much goes over them with a fine toothed comb. She had a few other minor things injected. She has had three complete lameness exams, with xrays in the last three months, and has had massages. She has a magnetic blanket, a back on track, and gets sore no more put on religiously. I live with an equine dentist and she has her teeth worked on regularly. I have gone through lots of saddles and am currently borrowing a Caldwell until I can afford one of my own (I'm 19 and in college). She has back on track hock wraps and leg wraps and has a very very talented farrier. She is on ulcers meds and is given them before we ride, before we go anywhere, practically every day. I'm lucky if I get to go to even three barrel races a month because I'm working so much to pay for her to have all of this stuff she needs so its not like she's having her legs run off her. She is ridden 5-6 days a week but 9/10 its just long trotting and loping her down to keep her in shape, so its not like I'm working her crazy hard at home. If she's still too sore to work after I religiously do all of this for her, she probably just needs to be turned out as a broodmare because hundreds of horses get way less preventative care than she does and still manage to work. I 110% agree to make sure that there is no soreness issues when looking at problems with runs, but I honestly don't know how much more I can do for her and still be able to afford to pay my rent let alone feed myself. I'm not saying that she couldn't be sore (and most of this work was done just prior to the first two videos that I posted, so in some of the early ones I could easily see her beings sore yes) but in the recent ones, I am saying that if, after the thousands of dollars I pour into keeping her not sore, she's still sore, she maybe just isn't meant to be a barrel horse because I'm literally running out of options to try for her to keep her not sore lol |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 499
Location: ARKANSAS | IMHO- an everyone has one..lol i would take this horse back to basics, yes it is BORING, but WELL WORTH IT in the long run. Start by just WALKING your pattern and when your leg gets EVEN with the barrel SIT DOWN and say WHOA. Continue to do this till you feel her start doing this on her own, DO NOT go to the trot till you feel her doing it on her own at EVERY BARREL. When she starts rating herself then you can move up to the trot and DO NOT MOVE YOUR RATE POINT, continue to SIT when your leg gets EVEN with the Barrel,then WALK around the barrel picking up the trot again on the back side and continue onto the next barrel, continue this till she is RATING ON HER OWN, at every barrel, then go to the Slow lope and trot around the barrels. Continue to do this at this speed till she is rating EVERY barrel with almost NO HELP from you other than you sitting in the saddle at the turns and your both doing so in a smooth and relaxed manner ,When you go back to running, the excitement the adreniline,you will find you need to sit just a little sooner than waiting till your leg gets even with the barrel as with speed everything speeds up and by the time you sit it will give her time to say OH moma just sit down and i am supposed to rate, you will find your exact spot adjusting it a foot or two of where you need to sit in a run at each barrel. By Starting all my young horses this way, i NEVER have dropped shoulder issues or anticipation of turning the barrels and running over them, and by the time they are running i can run them bridleless...good luck!!
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | No barrel work no drills nadda......go chase cows.....try it for a month..and when u go back to a barrel race slow down...get her respecting you........it takes a long time to bring one back down and you have to have patience..........m |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 912
Location: Alabama | Have her vetted. Invest in a calming supplement. Get off her face. She can't tell when you're asking her to rate and turn because it looks like you have constant pressure on her face. You can work on speed transitions away from the pattern as well so she can learn that you giving her her head doesn't mean she has to hit triple A. Nice horse. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 600
Location: Oklahoma & Texas | I watched from 1st video at end to the most recent at beginning . .i can definitely see improvement but my gut says her hocks are sore....she really drags her butt around the barrels great but she goes just a little passed and hangs up...I'd give her a break maybe get her looked at by a different vet but some time off not just from barrels but turned out no heavy riding may help if she has a lot of inflammation give it a chance to heal...if you had her injected once cause they found some soreness maybe she's anticipating the pain from before and learned in her mind to travel like this around the pattern to protect herself...and if she has any lingering soreness she'll keep doing what she knows...this time of year it's hard because everything is going on and lots of races to go to...but she's a nice mare she is definitely quick n snappy and I love how she slides around em I understand why you've invested so much in her. |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| Not trying to be ugly but this horse, but this hose horse does not have a good foundation.. You need to gradually speed up working correctly before you even think about running as fast as you are in the videos. Again a good clinic would be a good investment. |
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Veteran
Posts: 231
Location: Nashvegas | Like others have said she needs the basics all over again on the barrels. Off the barrels you need to do rate exercises, think reining. Sit up = speed up, sit down = collection and rate. You need to work on her rate points, like the trainer that is helping me said "they need to slow down coming into the barrel, not rush through it". In other words at the walk, trot or lope they should collect up, get round and slow their pace around the barrel. Also, sometimes having someone else ride/train your horse gives much needed perspective. She is going to be nice, definitely has the speed and it sounds like the mind, so It would be well worth slowing back down to a walk/trot and working back up, I believe. Good Luck!! |
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 Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
Location: Dubach, LA | Sell or trade her. I've been there and done that. Life is short. Get yourself a horse you can enjoy. If this was going to work for you, it'd be going by now. |
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Soon to be outta here:) | Thank you everyone for the advice! She does go work cows about once a week, and like I said we hardly run at all. She honestly does have a good foundation, she just loses it when we run. Off barrels-she rides like a million bucks. We've worked ridiculously hard to get that, when I bought her I was told not to trot her because she 'didn't like it'. So we have had to work super hard for that. I would like to invest more time in the slow work on barrels. I didn't work on the pattern from about last October until this may and just rode her, so I honestly haven't spent much time at all 'retraining' her slow on the pattern. I would love to do that with her and will start working on that! As for being sore, if her hocks are sore there are three vets out there that need a talking to. The one who injected her, and the two that told me she wasn't sore after she had them injected. Thanks though! I will get her checked again soon, but I really do think a combination between my riding and her lack of collection and rate is what's causing our problems. And I'm the person who thinks EVERYTHING is caused by horse being sore and will go to crazy measures to try and fix it.
As for selling her, not an option. One because I paid a lot of money for her and with how I've been running her I couldn't get near what I paid. So I would be paying off a loan for a horse I don't have, and still have no money to buy a different one or even lease one. And honestly, I wouldn't honestly want to sell her. I love ridin her everyday. We might argue everyonce in a while, but when it's good, it's really good. I honestly think she's a really nice horse. I just need to figure out what ican do with her and with me to bring it out I'm her!
Thank you all!! |
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Expert
Posts: 1543
Location: MI | I would be really interested in what a clinic might do for you guys. I think you have a great mindset for learning, and with an experts eyeballs you might be amazed at how it changes your patterns. Slow work never hurts too, I've just learned so much every time I have gone to a clinic and my horses' runs have drastically changed as a result. |
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Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
Location: Dubach, LA | Okay, hardhead. LOL. Keep her for a riding horse but give up on barrels. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | What I see is when she gets anxious, you get hard and she gets harder. She won't ever learn to relax and come back to you unless you learn to be softer when she gets upset and wants to run off. You're also not preparing her ahead of time for the turn and she needs it when she's rolling. Stay soft yourself, set her up before you get there, don't worry about speed for a while, concentrate on her coming back to you softly in a competition atmosphere.
If I were you, I would find a good trainer and take some lessons. This is a simple thing to fix, but not an easy one because it's human nature to stiffen up and pull harder when you feel out of control, and horsey nature to get scared and push harder when they're being trapped. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | Your going to have a good horse there...It's all about controlling her speed. Set up some drills and only do them at the speed that the mare is allowing you to control her with finger tip pressure. Have you done transitions from a posting trot by any chance? If so please try to do them from a standing trot. Have you anyone in the area that you can do several series of magna wave or P3 treatments? I highly recommend them for a horse that is bracing like I'm seeing in her. Once she is supple in her muscles she should be able to respond with the proper muscle memory that you've instilled in your slow work. Has she ever tied up? If so have your vet check a serum magnesium level if she is moderate to low I would give her some magnesium supplements.
You were told by someone else about Uncle Ed, give him a try. He craves helping a horse and rider that have as much try as this mare is giving and what your seeming to want. If you can't get with him call Jacque Woolman she's had much success helping others on those rocket horses.
It looks to me that your wanting to go fast, have you sacrificed several runs to try to go as controlled as possible and seen where that times gets you?
I love fast horses and the horse I'm starting now I probably won't kick him till he's in his sophomore year of running barrels. Horses that want to run like yours need to have lots of rate and control must be maintained. As soon as your feeling out of control set her down gain control at a speed that feels like you can control her with finger tip pressure and resume that pattern.
The other thing I would check on her is for bleeding. You can have her scoped for blood in the airways up to a day later by most vets after a run. I've had several horses that raise their BP and start the run hard and fast and essentially bleed by the time their at barrel 2. If thats the case per your vet ask him/her about meds that can help drop the BP. PM me for a warm up routine that has worked for me on horses that bleed under those occurances.
You've got a really nice mare there. Try to back the pressure off and work for smooth and pretty runs. Those runs will land you in some 2D $ after 6 months of controlled runs you should be ready to allow her to pick up some speed and I bet just by assuming the go position she will kick up the gears.
Smooth IS FAST
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Just to comment on the soreness.
Hock injections are not a one time thing, some horses need them every 2-3 months.
Did you ever xray the hocks, if not this is where you should have started instead of injecting.
Also some vets will inject cortisone or a derritive into the joint which will reduce inflammation short term, but long term will erode cartilage at a greater speed then natural.
Even if a horse isn't running barrels, if time has elapsed between injections there is a chance the horse is sore. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | cheryl makofka - 2015-07-05 9:34 AM Just to comment on the soreness. Hock injections are not a one time thing, some horses need them every 2-3 months. Did you ever xray the hocks, if not this is where you should have started instead of injecting. Also some vets will inject cortisone or a derritive into the joint which will reduce inflammation short term, but long term will erode cartilage at a greater speed then natural. Even if a horse isn't running barrels, if time has elapsed between injections there is a chance the horse is sore.
I've found this advice spot on in some colts. I would again highly recommend the magna wave or if you have a friend with a shock wave to use it on your horses hocks. Get the xrays so you know with what your dealing with! |
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 To the Left
Posts: 1865
Location: Florida | I have bought blown up horses and that mare is not blown. She just needs more help. The bit doesn't matter, the rider does. Find someone to help you, someone with real experience and credentials.
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| Vickie - 2015-07-05 10:27 AM
I have bought blown up horses and that mare is not blown. She just needs more help. The bit doesn't matter, the rider does. Find someone to help you, someone with real experience and credentials.
I absolutely, completely, totally agree. |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| CanCan - 2015-07-05 9:10 AM
Okay, hardhead. LOL. Keep her for a riding horse but give up on barrels.
A thought the title said she was desperate??? All that I am going to say that if a horse has a good foundation on them they have that foundation at any speed. This horse is probably not sore you are just running her way faster than she is ready to run. If you enjoy riding the horse keep her as a trail horse where you can do what both you you enjoy. This is the perfect reason why you do not borrow money to buy a horse.
I have to agree with cancan |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| CanCan - 2015-07-05 9:10 AM
Okay, hardhead. LOL. Keep her for a riding horse but give up on barrels.
This is sound advice...QUIT, all the greats in any sport got their break by being a quitter. |
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 Independent Cuss
Posts: 3978
Location: Dearing, GA | I agree with all those who said to get her off the pattern and start over with the basics. If y'all don't do rollbacks, I would work on rollbacks to get her used to sitting on her butt. Don't overdo those, because they can make a hot horse even hotter.
I would also put her in a really light broken bit with just a little bit of lift on it. Something light and easy- y'all need to open up that line of communication and really get her off of depending on your pulling to slow down and guide her. Changing her bit is NOT going to fix the problem that you have.
Also, it looks like your first barrel has consistently stayed the same. I didn't see your body ask her to slow down at all. Over exaggerate to the point of feeling ridiculous at a walk and a trot. She looks like a real free runner so you're going to have to give her plenty of time to think about slowing down, before you get to your turning point.
Look up Dena Kirkpatrick. She's got some great exercises. Molli Montgomery also wrote an excellent article about hot horses. |
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Soon to be outta here:) | Thank you everyone for the advice!! This mare has come leaps and bounds since I bought her, but clearly we still have a very long way to go. I do love the mare and I could retire her to a trail horse I guess, but she honestly loves her job. She wants to work and she wants to run. And I think that's what I love so much about her. She wants it. Some horses you go to work and you can tell their heart just isn't in it, hers always is. If barrels are set up in an arena she wants to go work a pattern. I just don't do her justice. Thanks for all the suggestions for clinics and people to look up for help! I have tried to get local help, but it hasn't done much in the way of our pattern. Getting her more broke yes, but no one has really helped me apply that to our pattern. I'm really thinking based on what everyone is saying I play a much bigger role with me riding than I previously thought, which makes me happy because I know I can work hard and teach myself to ride her. I'm 100% willing to do that! I can work on rate with her, she does know how to do rollbacks as someone suggested but I don't really do them often. I have a huge selection of bits, I ride her in a snaffle or a draw bit at home, I'm sure I could find something that's pretty light with a little bit of lift!
As for not pushing her, every single video is me praying to god she goes slower lol. I don't care at all if we run a 4d time but have nice barrels. When I let her pick her speed, the speed she's going is her pick. If I ever do push it's a few kicks here or there lol. When she goes to take off to run it's literally 0 to mock 90. I'm for sure not asking her for the speed or pushing her lol.
As for the injections, I have X-rays that were taken right before she had her hocks injected. They were perfectly clean and looked good. The only reason I actually injected her hocks was because she went and was on a theraplate for 2 weeks, when I took her to a vet for a lameness exam she failed the flexion test on both hocks. After a week home not being on that plate she went back to the same vet and she didn't flex off at all. I took her to another well known vet for a second opinion, and that was when they took X-rays, which were clean, and she didn't flex off at all. She also went to a vet in Oklahoma and she didn't flex off. However we did inject them because she was so off the first time I had her flexed. The vet for sure didn't use cortisone, I had the option of the cortisone or the other mix of stuff and I didn't get the cortisone.
I guess she very well could be sore, but she has already had so much time off and I've treated her for so many things that I'm not sure if there's honestly anything else I could do for her to make her not sore.
I really appreciate everyone's advice, I get a little worried that she's never going to make it as a barrel horse, it's really nice to hear that she is a nice horse! I would waaaay rather have me be the problem because I know I'm willing to fix it and work at it lol.
Thank you again! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 499
Location: ARKANSAS | Try the Excercise i explained earlier in my post for a month....till BOTH of you can do this in a RELAXED fashion at home, then take her to a show and exhibition ONLY so you can still stay relaxed go slow..this may take several times...she will eventually LEARN she does not have to overly excited when it is time to run..she is getting overly excited in her runs and that is why she is not rating or listening to your cues....you have to back to BASICS and teach these things to her...good luck
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Veteran
Posts: 276
| IMO you are going to have to do something to get her head down when she runs. Carrying her head up and pushing her jaw out leaves you with no control no matter what bit or how you ride her, you are not going to be able to move her shoulders, ribcage to set her for a turn, or ask for any rate. I'm not saying that you should slap a tie-down on her and make a run, no (although I am a fan of running in a loose leather tie-down) but the fact that you say she braces on one to the point of coming to a stop gives me even more reason to believe this is your biggest problem. When you slow work her or even ride her in the pasture, can you get her to move laterally each direction using mostly your feet (very little from your hands) without her picking up speed or throwing up her head? That is something that needs to be mastered, then at a trot, at a lope, and eventually a run. You need to be able to pick her inside rein, shoulders, and ribs up at anytime in order to set her for a turn, even if she is at a full out run without any fight. I have found that if you can get a horse shaped correctly for a turn, with their nose, shoulder, ribs in place and their butt up under them, the rate will come naturally. |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | You need to sit your arse DOWN in that saddle and if you can't do that find a saddle that helps you do that. Find a rate point SIT and ask for the turn....find something (even if it's a looong tie down or bonnet) and get that nose out of the air-maybe even a combo bit. You need more poll control try riding her in a goostree simplicity and add the chin chain for whoa-then maybe you can move up to the double gag. The simplicity will help get her head down and flex the loin. Most of her trouble IS you so work on you. Horse can't run fast if rider isn't riding smart. You need to think more whoa and less go. |
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Soon to be outta here:) | When I first bought her I couldn't put a leg on her without her literally trying to take off. Now if I go nice and slow I can move her with my legs. Sometimes if I pick up on her she will put her was up and try to speed up, but 80% of the time she's really good. We do still need a lot of work on that though because that needs to be at 110%. If I run her right and actually ask her to move over she will pick up for a barrel. Sometimes I just panic and sit there and then she doesn't pick up because I'm not asking her too. But again that's all my fault, not hers.
As for keeping her head down, I do have a bonnet I could try on her! I could try a looser tie down again, I just worry that if I rely on things like the martingale or the bonnet or a tie down I won't ever be able to run without one. That has always been her problem, getting we head up. Some horses are naturally higher headed but she does it toget away from pressure. We have worked very hard to get her to not do that off barrels and she has improved a ton, but especially on big patterns she puts it up and even if I were to ride her correct I'm not sure that I would have a ton of control haha.
She could be putting her head up because I'm in her face too much though, I could see that being a huge part of the problem. I don't want her to go mock 90 all the time, but instead of really sitting down I snatch at her face or sit and hold on it. That could very much be why she puts it up so far. |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | ^ yes she's learning that when you snatch her face she puts it in the air and you're out of the game! Try the simplicity....in my hands it brings their head back down and is pretty forgiving even if you get too heavy on them. So ask yourself if she hits the end of the tie down and stops isn't that a fair trade off of putting her head up and running off?? I rather have one that stops and questions why they were reprimanded than running away..... |
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Soon to be outta here:) | I will see if I can get my hands on a simplicity! Would it be something I would just work her in or run in? And that is very true. She works pretty good in a German I just don't really like running in one! I can always try a tie down again, worst thing that happens is she hits it like she did and stops lol |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | I run them in a simplicity-if the horse is broke its more than enough. As far as the tie down (or bonnet etc) goes she probabaly should be rode in it all the time......if its a tool make sure its being used consistantly so theres no surpises, especially if that is her reaction....and she probably should slow down some....that's the point of this post right?? to gain more control?? That means putting her brain back between your hands-literally and figuratively. Why won't you run in the martingale if you like how she rides in it at home-she obviously needs it so use it! |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 876
Location: Wisconsin | There are some gosh darn GOOD trainers and clinicians that attend those B Tuff races in Winona. I would really think about trying to contact some of them and take lessons. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 489
| ladyelbert - 2015-07-06 8:50 AM
Try the Excercise i explained earlier in my post for a month....till BOTH of you can do this in a RELAXED fashion at home, then take her to a show and exhibition ONLY so you can still stay relaxed go slow..this may take several times...she will eventually LEARN she does not have to overly excited when it is time to run..she is getting overly excited in her runs and that is why she is not rating or listening to your cues....you have to back to BASICS and teach these things to her...good luck
The voice of reason has been in Ladyelbert's posts.
First - I love the way your mare looks like she can move. I see why you want to keep trying with her.
Second - kudos to you for trying to fix the problems. You obviously have been trying to make sure she is not sore. Maybe there is something the vets have missed, or maybe the timing between injections is off, or whatever - but obviously you are trying to make sure she is pain free. It also sounds like you are trying to get her better broke and you are looking to get help with that. You are trying. You are not sticking your head in the sand about what is going on. And you are taking responsibility for your role as a rider.
Now.....the "pat you on the back" portion of my reply is over......People that know me well know I'm a blunt speaker. I never want to hurt someone's feelings. I'll never say a word until I'm asked. Someone can live their life or ride their horse however they see fit -I could care less. But when asked - I'll say what I honestly think. So you asked.....
Third - You are wasting your money. If this is the way you ride and the way your mare works every time you enter a barrel race - things will never magically change. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result each time. Something has to change for progress to happen. Some people have mentioned Ed Wright. I love him, and how he looks at training a horse. I was at one of his clinics and a girl had a horse with a very sore back. Ed showed her how her old wore-out saddle pad was compounding the problem of a slightly poor fitting saddle. He thought a new pad would make a lot of difference - she might not have to get a new saddle. Her response was "If I buy a new pad, I wont be able to afford to go to a show this week" Ed's response was to not to expect her horse to ever do any good if she wasn't willing to change what was causing the problem.
Do you exhibition this mare? Can you walk or trot a barrel race at a show? If not, start there. Forget about competing. Use that money for QUIET exhibitions. So what if it takes a YEAR? You were already throwing money down the dark hole we call barrel racing. Why not work toward something that might eventually give you a return on your investment? It's not fun, it's not glamorous - but all you are doing now is teaching her how NOT to properly run a barrel race.
Is she one that will let you do all the slow work you want before a show or during an exhibition - but then loose her brain when you enter? Then enter - and TROT!!!!! Tell the ones that fuss at you about it to go suck your big toe! You are working toward a horse that could outrun their butt 10 times in a row...not just once in a blue moon! Try it. Enter and tell yourself "we are only going to trot". Does she pick up on the body language and settle down? Then maybe, she is getting a lot of "go" from you. You may have to do a lot of slow work at shows to get you both on the same page. Slow and correct. Slow and correct. Slow and correct. DON'T SKIP STEPS! Add speed in 1 MPH increments. After 5 years, let her lope one and see where you are. (yes - that was a smarta$$ comment) but the point is that a few slow works will not fix the problems. Be prepared to invest the time.....or if you don't want to do that...just give up now and save yourself the headache.
Fourth - When you do want to give up...send her my way. I'm not saying I can fix her. There may be things going on between her ears that us computer jockey's can't comprehend. But I'd trade you my husband to try her! |
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Soon to be outta here:) | I feel like she drops her shoulder a lot more going to second and third when I have the martingale on. If I leave it on the loosest setting possible she doesn't drop, but then I'm not sure its really helping her keep her face down. Maybe it does and I just feel like it doesn't lol.
And yes there are, I have worked with a few of the best barrel racers in Minnesota, I just think wanted to get other opinions and maybe other people I could go to for extra help!  |
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Veteran
Posts: 276
| Great, sounds like you have brought her a long ways with slow work (I understand the grueling process, it is not quick!) I would keep working on this and keep testing her with adding gradual amounts of speed. Make sure if you add a tie-down, bonnet, martingale, etc that you are still "training" her to do it right, not just cheating with the tool to get by. These are all handy tools that you can use while making runs, but you don't want her to solely rely on them. When you ride her in the pasture or slow working her in the arena, try to be always asking her to do something responsive. Don't just "trail ride" her. Move side to side, ask her to collect at the poll, counter-arc, act like you are fixing to turn the first barrel, just always surprise her with something and make sure there is no hesitation or resistance. I think this too will help you with your riding and forgetting to set her. Over exaggerate your actions going slow. Muscle memory is what it is all about in a run, because you do not have time to think... you just have to react. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| KindaClassey - 2015-07-06 11:20 AM
ladyelbert - 2015-07-06 8:50 AM
Try the Excercise i explained earlier in my post for a month....till BOTH of you can do this in a RELAXED fashion at home, then take her to a show and exhibition ONLY so you can still stay relaxed go slow..this may take several times...she will eventually LEARN she does not have to overly excited when it is time to run..she is getting overly excited in her runs and that is why she is not rating or listening to your cues....you have to back to BASICS and teach these things to her...good luck
The voice of reason has been in Ladyelbert's posts.
First - I love the way your mare looks like she can move. I see why you want to keep trying with her.
Second - kudos to you for trying to fix the problems. You obviously have been trying to make sure she is not sore. Maybe there is something the vets have missed, or maybe the timing between injections is off, or whatever - but obviously you are trying to make sure she is pain free. It also sounds like you are trying to get her better broke and you are looking to get help with that. You are trying. You are not sticking your head in the sand about what is going on. And you are taking responsibility for your role as a rider.
Now.....the "pat you on the back" portion of my reply is over......People that know me well know I'm a blunt speaker. I never want to hurt someone's feelings. I'll never say a word until I'm asked. Someone can live their life or ride their horse however they see fit -I could care less. But when asked - I'll say what I honestly think. So you asked.....
Third - You are wasting your money. If this is the way you ride and the way your mare works every time you enter a barrel race - things will never magically change. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result each time. Something has to change for progress to happen. Some people have mentioned Ed Wright. I love him, and how he looks at training a horse. I was at one of his clinics and a girl had a horse with a very sore back. Ed showed her how her old wore-out saddle pad was compounding the problem of a slightly poor fitting saddle. He thought a new pad would make a lot of difference - she might not have to get a new saddle. Her response was "If I buy a new pad, I wont be able to afford to go to a show this week" Ed's response was to not to expect her horse to ever do any good if she wasn't willing to change what was causing the problem.
Do you exhibition this mare? Can you walk or trot a barrel race at a show? If not, start there. Forget about competing. Use that money for QUIET exhibitions. So what if it takes a YEAR? You were already throwing money down the dark hole we call barrel racing. Why not work toward something that might eventually give you a return on your investment? It's not fun, it's not glamorous - but all you are doing now is teaching her how NOT to properly run a barrel race.
Is she one that will let you do all the slow work you want before a show or during an exhibition - but then loose her brain when you enter? Then enter - and TROT!!!!! Tell the ones that fuss at you about it to go suck your big toe! You are working toward a horse that could outrun their butt 10 times in a row...not just once in a blue moon! Try it. Enter and tell yourself "we are only going to trot". Does she pick up on the body language and settle down? Then maybe, she is getting a lot of "go" from you. You may have to do a lot of slow work at shows to get you both on the same page. Slow and correct. Slow and correct. Slow and correct. DON'T SKIP STEPS! Add speed in 1 MPH increments. After 5 years, let her lope one and see where you are. (yes - that was a smarta$$ comment ) but the point is that a few slow works will not fix the problems. Be prepared to invest the time.....or if you don't want to do that...just give up now and save yourself the headache.
Fourth - When you do want to give up...send her my way. I'm not saying I can fix her. There may be things going on between her ears that us computer jockey's can't comprehend. But I'd trade you my husband to try her!
A new bit and a tiedown is NOT a fix. |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | ^Because I love the way ITSME responds with such useful advice, I would like to point out sarcasm and doing NOTHING will get you nowhere but more frustrated as well! To the OP you've had a lot of helpful advice but if you're like me (which maybe you aren't because I don't know you) sometimes having a different outlook on what you're doing helps immensely change your mind about what you "think" is right and what actually is. Hands down, you need more control over your mare.....figure that out and you'll do great. So throw away my bit idea and tie down and then start looking at the pros.....winners come in ALL shapes and sizes. Some people need to go blow smoke...... |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 489
| Just for the record - I'm not opposed to the use of any headgear necessary to get her throttled back and listening. Control comes first. Then you can work on easing the mind and getting her to look forward to running AND turning. |
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Soon to be outta here:) | Itsme - 2015-07-06 11:32 AM
KindaClassey - 2015-07-06 11:20 AM
ladyelbert - 2015-07-06 8:50 AM
Try the Excercise i explained earlier in my post for a month....till BOTH of you can do this in a RELAXED fashion at home, then take her to a show and exhibition ONLY so you can still stay relaxed go slow..this may take several times...she will eventually LEARN she does not have to overly excited when it is time to run..she is getting overly excited in her runs and that is why she is not rating or listening to your cues....you have to back to BASICS and teach these things to her...good luck
The voice of reason has been in Ladyelbert's posts.
First - I love the way your mare looks like she can move. I see why you want to keep trying with her.
Second - kudos to you for trying to fix the problems. You obviously have been trying to make sure she is not sore. Maybe there is something the vets have missed, or maybe the timing between injections is off, or whatever - but obviously you are trying to make sure she is pain free. It also sounds like you are trying to get her better broke and you are looking to get help with that. You are trying. You are not sticking your head in the sand about what is going on. And you are taking responsibility for your role as a rider.
Now.....the "pat you on the back" portion of my reply is over......People that know me well know I'm a blunt speaker. I never want to hurt someone's feelings. I'll never say a word until I'm asked. Someone can live their life or ride their horse however they see fit -I could care less. But when asked - I'll say what I honestly think. So you asked.....
Third - You are wasting your money. If this is the way you ride and the way your mare works every time you enter a barrel race - things will never magically change. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result each time. Something has to change for progress to happen. Some people have mentioned Ed Wright. I love him, and how he looks at training a horse. I was at one of his clinics and a girl had a horse with a very sore back. Ed showed her how her old wore-out saddle pad was compounding the problem of a slightly poor fitting saddle. He thought a new pad would make a lot of difference - she might not have to get a new saddle. Her response was "If I buy a new pad, I wont be able to afford to go to a show this week" Ed's response was to not to expect her horse to ever do any good if she wasn't willing to change what was causing the problem.
Do you exhibition this mare? Can you walk or trot a barrel race at a show? If not, start there. Forget about competing. Use that money for QUIET exhibitions. So what if it takes a YEAR? You were already throwing money down the dark hole we call barrel racing. Why not work toward something that might eventually give you a return on your investment? It's not fun, it's not glamorous - but all you are doing now is teaching her how NOT to properly run a barrel race.
Is she one that will let you do all the slow work you want before a show or during an exhibition - but then loose her brain when you enter? Then enter - and TROT!!!!! Tell the ones that fuss at you about it to go suck your big toe! You are working toward a horse that could outrun their butt 10 times in a row...not just once in a blue moon! Try it. Enter and tell yourself "we are only going to trot". Does she pick up on the body language and settle down? Then maybe, she is getting a lot of "go" from you. You may have to do a lot of slow work at shows to get you both on the same page. Slow and correct. Slow and correct. Slow and correct. DON'T SKIP STEPS! Add speed in 1 MPH increments. After 5 years, let her lope one and see where you are. (yes - that was a smarta$$ comment ) but the point is that a few slow works will not fix the problems. Be prepared to invest the time.....or if you don't want to do that...just give up now and save yourself the headache.
Fourth - When you do want to give up...send her my way. I'm not saying I can fix her. There may be things going on between her ears that us computer jockey's can't comprehend. But I'd trade you my husband to try her!
A new bit and a tiedown is NOT a fix.
Thank you so much....this is awesome advice!! She is one that I can go do perfect exhibitions on, walk trot and lope and break to a trot at our rate point and she's perfect. But we go to make a run and you see what happens. I exhibition her every time I run and we very rarely will go faster than a trot and if we do we only slow lope to our rate spot. That's what makes me think it's so much more my body language than her really, because I must get tense and ride her way different than I exhibition. I always say if they had trotting barrel races we would kick butt lol.
If I ever get sick of her, I'll make sure to send her your way! She honestly is a blast, that's why I want so bad to learn to ride her!
Thank you again, I really really appreciate everyone's advice, I've gotten a lot of ideas! |
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Soon to be outta here:) | Also just wanted to add she has NEVER in her life reared like she did. She hardly even get shot going in the gate. Could this be a sign of bleeding? She hasn't bled out and she doesn't cough after I run, but maybe this is like an early sign?
Also the videos from tonight are in the original post! |
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| I don't "do" rearing - AT ALL. My mom worked with a lady in a wheelchair from a horse that reared and flipped over. I practically GAVE away a Mr. Eye Opener colt due to rearing. I'm guessing you have had her vet checked, chiro'd and teeth done? If so, I would send her to a trainer or down the road. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Send her out for training or send her down the road. If you haven't vetted,THOROUGHLY, I would do that first.
If you keep running this mare, or trying to fix this with your own training, you could get seriously hurt. Not worth that happening!
Please be careful. Honestly, it's not worth it to run a horse that's a constant headache or is dangerous.
Edited by barrelracr131 2015-07-10 8:05 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 372
| LDH - 2015-07-06 9:26 AM
When I first bought her I couldn't put a leg on her without her literally trying to take off. Now if I go nice and slow I can move her with my legs. Sometimes if I pick up on her she will put her was up and try to speed up, but 80% of the time she's really good. We do still need a lot of work on that though because that needs to be at 110%. If I run her right and actually ask her to move over she will pick up for a barrel. Sometimes I just panic and sit there and then she doesn't pick up because I'm not asking her too. But again that's all my fault, not hers.
As for keeping her head down, I do have a bonnet I could try on her! I could try a looser tie down again, I just worry that if I rely on things like the martingale or the bonnet or a tie down I won't ever be able to run without one. That has always been her problem, getting we head up. Some horses are naturally higher headed but she does it toget away from pressure. We have worked very hard to get her to not do that off barrels and she has improved a ton, but especially on big patterns she puts it up and even if I were to ride her correct I'm not sure that I would have a ton of control haha.
She could be putting her head up because I'm in her face too much though, I could see that being a huge part of the problem. I don't want her to go mock 90 all the time, but instead of really sitting down I snatch at her face or sit and hold on it. That could very much be why she puts it up so far.
you literally just described a horse that does not have the foundation needed to be solid and consistent on the pattern.
As many others have said, would start over or at the very least back way off.
Get her nose out of the air and get her quite between your legs and your performance in the arena will greatly improve.
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Soon to be outta here:) | I don't 'do' rearing at all either, but she really has never in her life done this before. I don't want to just send her down the road because she did this once. I want to at least try some things before just giving up. |
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 Saint Stacey
| I wouldn't worry about the rearing at this point unless it happens again. Looks to be like she wanted to run. You didn't let her so she threw a baby fit. You held her so you could have very easily fixed the problem before it really started. Had you let her go when she reared, you might have let a mess start. On 3rd...again she threw a fit. Instead if giving you her noe, she braced and got stiff. You locked onto her and she went up. Had you given her her head back and then snatched, she probably wouldn't have gone up. |
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Soon to be outta here:) | SKM - 2015-07-10 7:16 AM
I wouldn't worry about the rearing at this point unless it happens again. Looks to be like she wanted to run. You didn't let her so she threw a baby fit. You held her so you could have very easily fixed the problem before it really started. Had you let her go when she reared, you might have let a mess start. On 3rd...again she threw a fit. Instead if giving you her noe, she braced and got stiff. You locked onto her and she went up. Had you given her her head back and then snatched, she probably wouldn't have gone up.
Thank you! I am currently freaking out over it. She has been riding so ridiculously nice, I really thought we had made a breakthrough. Prior to this run she warmed up and exhibtioned like a kids horse. Stopped at her rate point with just me sitting, never once put her face up in the exhibitions, didn't try and take off at all coming out of first like she normally does. I was so excited to run because she was literally my dream horse warming up and exhibitioning. And then she went and did that and I was so shocked that she did that I didn't even know what to do with her.
When I got done running I stood her by the gate and she stood there perfectly still and calm. And before I ran her the second time I told the gate people and everyone around the gate to watch out because she was probably going to be crazy and walked her up into the gate just to stand and she made a liar out of me because she calmly walked up there and stood without moving at all. Didn't even flinch. Granted I had the martingale back on because I wasn't about to let her rear again, but she didn't even try and get hot. She for sure wanted to go in when she reared but that's still not okay. I don't care how much she wants to run, she doesn't get to go up to avoid pressure. |
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 Texas Taco
Posts: 7499
Location: Bandera, TX | I didn't read the entire thread, but have you had her back x-rayed for kissing spine? I have one that would be either totally awesome of an evil dragon. Everyone always told me that she is just spoiled..... She finally bucked me off and hurt me, then I sent her to a trainer. Same there - she did great one day and was a POS the next day.
I finally got her back x-rayed and she has a bad case of kissing spine. I'm so mad at myself for not going with my gut on this and listening to everyone else on how spoiled that horse is. I could have saved myself a lot of pain, money and frustration if I would have just listened to my instincts.
Anyway, kissing spine can make for very strange and unpredictable behavior in a horse.
Good Luck, hope you get this figured out. |
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Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
Location: Dubach, LA | Once again: Not all horses can be barrel horses. Sell her to one of these people that say they can fix her or keep her to trail ride. |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | I agree with SKM, I think she "could" continue with the rearing, however, it looked to me that she was just ticked off you were making her listen and as far as not liking her first in the martingale, I didn't think it looked that bad, besides how long has it taken to get her this "bad"?? It's going to take A LOT longer to get her over her fits and really listening to her.....a week or two isn't enough. Find a way to control that adrenaline and you will be way ahead too |
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Good grief......I went back and watched your videos......you have absolutely NO control over this horse. The horse has NO rate, nothing, nada.......You hold on the reins and her head is in the air.......go back to basics before you RUN this horse again or move her down the road.....It only takes ONE time of rearing to cripple you for life.....you have HAD your ONE chance...... |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I see a rider that isnt in control , you are in her mouth to try to have some control. You arent her pilot. you are just saying GO and when shes frazzled even more you are still saying GO and then getting in her mouth. I see a future blown up horse. shes a nice horse but with you need professional help. if you continue to allow her to just GO and then when you panic or try to have control get in her mouth (head up frazzled) she will eventaually be blown up and tired of the nonsense.. she wants to work it appears.. but not that way. she needs the proper tools and guidence and then she would be great I think.. but you really should take some time and a season to go work with someone and I dont mean just anyone.. make sure they are knowledgable if you want to keep her brain.. |
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Assistant to the Braun..
Posts: 1249
Location: Texas | LDH - 2015-07-04 1:44 AM
Thanks for all of the help! The very last video is the first run I ever made on her two years ago. The first video I posted is from this last week. She honestly has been working on fundamentals for two years, since I bought her. At home I ride her in a snaffle and she is light and responsive and works beautiful. I'm not saying that I have control of her hips and shoulders in her runs, because don't, she's a runaway for sure, but I do have it going slow. It just doesn't translate to our runs. One reason I wouldn't want to sell her is because she's so easy to ride outside the barrel arena. She doesn't ever get hot, she does exactly what I ask no questions asked, she can go on trail rides in south Dakota and flat footed walks the whole time. She is awesome to ride when not running a pattern. However, like someone said I really do think its me. Only a handful of other people have ran her, but one girl did amazing on her, had about a perfect pattern, and the other did pretty well too. But neither one of them was really able to tell me what they had done and what I need to do to run her.
As for her being sore, she just had her hocks injected less than two months ago, and has only had 4 runs since then, she gets chiroed every few months, she was just down to Oklahoma to a very well known vet who pretty much goes over them with a fine toothed comb. She had a few other minor things injected. She has had three complete lameness exams, with xrays in the last three months, and has had massages. She has a magnetic blanket, a back on track, and gets sore no more put on religiously. I live with an equine dentist and she has her teeth worked on regularly. I have gone through lots of saddles and am currently borrowing a Caldwell until I can afford one of my own (I'm 19 and in college). She has back on track hock wraps and leg wraps and has a very very talented farrier. She is on ulcers meds and is given them before we ride, before we go anywhere, practically every day. I'm lucky if I get to go to even three barrel races a month because I'm working so much to pay for her to have all of this stuff she needs so its not like she's having her legs run off her. She is ridden 5-6 days a week but 9/10 its just long trotting and loping her down to keep her in shape, so its not like I'm working her crazy hard at home. If she's still too sore to work after I religiously do all of this for her, she probably just needs to be turned out as a broodmare because hundreds of horses get way less preventative care than she does and still manage to work. I 110% agree to make sure that there is no soreness issues when looking at problems with runs, but I honestly don't know how much more I can do for her and still be able to afford to pay my rent let alone feed myself. I'm not saying that she couldn't be sore (and most of this work was done just prior to the first two videos that I posted, so in some of the early ones I could easily see her beings sore yes) but in the recent ones, I am saying that if, after the thousands of dollars I pour into keeping her not sore, she's still sore, she maybe just isn't meant to be a barrel horse because I'm literally running out of options to try for her to keep her not sore lol
This may have already been addressed but I will say it anyways. Regardless if you injected her hocks 2 months ago and 4 runs they can still be hurting. The injections may have not been in the right spot or not held. Just because you have limited runs really has nothing to do with it she can do absolutely nothing and the injections not last. Now with that being said I think she is trying to work under the circumstances. You are hanging on her face and not helping her at all in her turns. She needs a thorough vet check to see if something else is making her sore and you need to work on relaxing and lowering your hands when you ride her. I am not saying this to be rude its just an observation of what I am saying. I would just not run her until I got all of this worked out. Good Luck :) |
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 Witty Enough
Posts: 2954
Location: CTX | Ok, my $0.02....
I don't know if the horse is hurting. The only way to find out is letting a vet go through the horse completely....
It does look like the horse is frustrated.... slow down... get back to basics and do not run again till you ace that.
One thing I did when my horse started to lunge out of 1st barrel is lengthen my reins, I noticed that I was holding him back coming out. That did help and he doesn't lunge anymore.
Please get some local help, before you and/or the horse gets hurt! it is always nice to get feedback on this forum, but hands on help is what you really need to fix this! |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | LDH - 2015-07-09 11:53 PM Also just wanted to add she has NEVER in her life reared like she did. She hardly even get shot going in the gate. Could this be a sign of bleeding? She hasn't bled out and she doesn't cough after I run, but maybe this is like an early sign? Also the videos from tonight are in the original post!
My daughter's little mare started having some anxiety in the alley that led to full on panic before her runs...Then she started getting much stronger in her turns and elevating leaving her barrels. I suspected bleeding as a possible issue, but when we scoped her we found a HORRIBLE lower respiratory infection. She hadn't coughed or shown us any sign of an issue, other than starting to behave badly in the alley and pulling through her turns. Once we got it cleared up she's been back to her normal soft faced self, but she's fighting to get IN the pen now because she wants to run.
I finally got a chance to watch the videos .....the horse is not the problem. Find someone that can help you with some lessons and get comfortable just letting her go do her job.
Edited by rachellyn80 2015-07-12 11:52 AM
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Heart of Texas | I would get professional help. From a professional barrel racer. If you feel like she's perfectly healthy, you'd know best. And you already said YOU need help. So get it. I took a lesson with Kay Blanford and it completely changed my riding. Just one hour. I consider myself a good rider. But she was like do A, B, C and it all clicked. The next race we were a half second faster. That's how Fallon won the NFR. She went back to basics and enlisted a good personal trainer. She didn't do it by herself. There's no shame getting help. Clinics are nice but i would get one on one. Especially since this looks to be a dangerous situation. |
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Location: I am not sure most days | I will say I do not consider myself a professional and I have NO world titles but, I have been around horses all of my life and the best horses I ever put my daughter on AND she did well on were the ones that no one else wanted! lol Plus I am the Queen of slowing a horse down. This is a very nice mare and I fee for you because for me this is one of the hardest things to fix! It is hard to control your nerves and stay relaxed and soft handed on a crotch rocket like this!! lol I have a very nice running bred mare that I traded for many years ago and like you I could do whatever I wanted in the pasture with her and she had all of the basics down pat I could run a nice pattern at home but ,she,had been pushed as a futurity horse before I got her and as soon as you took her to a barrel race she became a different horse. I could ride up to the alley and she would stand and not act stupid, she went in fine but the clue was mentally she was a mess. Most people associate a mental problem with a horse that acts all stupid but all of them handle the pressure differently some dance around and spin and get all hyper then others seem to get dull and calm and quiet then they explode when least expected. (this is what my mare did and if I touched her on the barrel pattern she would jump out of the turn or leap up kind of like your mare is doing). I did not have the experience then to fix her at the barrel race and to this day this makes me sick. Basics are a great thing to have but once the basics are there for slow work you have to get them at speed also, and this is where finding someone that understands this is hard, in my opinion, because you have to think outside of traditional methods to fix this. For example, to me you do need to go back to some slow work but it needs to be work that keeps her feet busy and soft. If I was exhibitioning this mare I would go in and have her do multiple circles on the way to the first barrel with a lot of forward motion and push her into the bit then I would break he down to a walk around the barrel and still do at least 3 small circles around the barrel, again keep forward motion and push her into the bit, one circle going into the turn, one circle on the back side of the turn and one circle leaving the turn, pick up a trot and if she even remotely feels chargey or throws her head up push her into a circle to the left (maintain your direction to the 2nd barrel) and when you come out of the circle to head to the barrel give her the chance again to stay relaxed again if she raises her head or gets chargy put her in the circle, keep doing this throughout the whole pattern then allow her to walk home (if she wont walk home don't get in a fight and pull on her, put her back to work doing small forward motion circles all the way back out the alley then put her to work outside of the barrel pen until it is time to go back in and start over. All of this can be practiced at home also which is where I would start since you said she gets excited during practice at home too. This helps my hotter blooded horses a lot this keeps me from pulling on them which just irritates the snot out of them. Break it down at home, maybe just start out at a trot until that feels good and only work one barrel and one direction one day then when she feels good sit down and allow her to stop and think about it then walk away and go trail ride. I will add, this will not happen overnight but, with time and consistancy it has helped mine and you can adapt this in so many different ways. |
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | When you go work cows in what way are you working them? Just gathering them or in a round pen or flat pen and turning them back? Turning cows back will help teach one a lot about natural rate.
In the first video the first thing I noticed was you seem to kind of be hanging on her head headed to the first...I noticed because I tend to do the same thing to my gelding at times and what happens is then you get to the first and want to rate and you pull some more but you've been pulling from the get go and sending them anyway and pretty soon they aren't sure if you are just pulling because or if you actually want/need them to listen up. Been there done that, not meaning it as a jab at all.
She looks like she has some good things about her, but I also see a horse that is panicking a little too headed into the turn which brings her head up and drops her back and then her butt end falls out on her making her stride long where it should be short and dynamic. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 807
Location: New Mexico | I disagree with most everyone here about the rearing. I feel sometimes that we make a bigger deal about the alley than the horse and a lot of times are the creator of the problem. Someone else said "she wanted to run". I agree. Don't make mountains out of mole hills and don't spend so much time in the alley and I think the problem will take care of itself. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| crzystevielvr - 2015-07-10 1:55 PM
I disagree with most everyone here about the rearing. I feel sometimes that we make a bigger deal about the alley than the horse and a lot of times are the creator of the problem. Someone else said "she wanted to run". I agree. Don't make mountains out of mole hills and don't spend so much time in the alley and I think the problem will take care of itself.
yep
you look a little stiff and heavy with your hands during the run and I would say that it made her nervous and panic. |
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Soon to be outta here:) | I fully admit that a lot of it is me, and I agree with everyone that I need professional help... so that being said.... who does everyone suggest? I am located in Minnesota, I'm willing to travel but if I have to go very far I won't be able to go very often. Suggestions on people to go to would be great!
Also, a little background on her that I don't really think I've given. She was bought off the track, within a week (had no more training than track training) she was sold to a girl who had her running in the 2d at big barrel races around here in 30 days. The girl stuck a tie down and big bit on her and ran her until she started getting so hot and crazy that she couldn't handle her. She then sold her to a friend of mine who turned her out completely for over 6 months. She told me that the mare doesn't like bits and I should run her in a hack. However, I have tried running in a hack and needless to say, that didn't work lol. After being with her and turned out for 6 months another friend of mine bought her and took her down to Texas where she was with pj burger for a little while getting training, and then worked with my friends aunt. I was young when I bought her, and my firmed was a lot older and I trusted her a lot. She told me that she had her running in the 2d down there, but still has never shown me the video. But when she was telling me how to ride her after I bought her, she always told me to hold her back going to first, so that's what I tried to do. Before zip I ran a little cow horse, so my natural instinct was to just throw the reins forward and my friend drilled into me that I can't do that. She used to tell me to hold her to the time line, but I felt like that just made z so mad she wouldn't want to turn anyways, so I gave up on that. But I think part of why I'm so terrible n her face was because when I first started riding her after I bought her I was told to pretty much hold on her. Now I need to work really hard to change my instincts on her to just let her go as opposed to holding her.
My biggest fear is making her gate sour or turning her into a blown up horse. I want to avoid that at all costs. That being said, suggestions for people to take her to for lessons would be awesome!
Thank you! |
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Am I the only one here that sees the problem? If you think you can override nature, you are mistaken. |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | I had a horse like her....I was too stupid to slow him down and I blew him up. My advice would be to haul her, but make her lope controlled through the whole pattern. I think an Ed Wright clinic would suit this horse best.
What Ed Wright told me, is that I kept checking my horse, giving it back, checking, giving it back. By the time it's time to ACTUALLY rate, I had asked too many times and he gave me the bird. |
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Soon to be outta here:) | komet. - 2015-07-11 1:23 AM
Am I the only one here that sees the problem? If you think you can override nature, you are mistaken.
Override nature as in that this horse isn't meant to be a barrel horse or...? |
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 Peat and Repeat
Posts: 2773
Location: IN MY OWN LITTLE WORLD AT LEAST THEY KNOW ME HERE | Jmo-
Get her ovaries checked- soreness during a heat cycle for some mares is very painful.
I'm a oddball mare person and love mares.
Mare is ran for many yrs came n cycle so hard and was horrible and a nasty ho. Lol for lack of a better term.
Had a mare marble put in by vet. Fixed her right up.
My young mare currently riding?
Slowed down from 1/2 d to 3/4d????
Quit eating and tried several feeds
Vitamins added
B12 shots
Back soreness.
Addressed Fitted w new saddle
Back, legs, Hocks AND stifles xrayed n injected and go hand n hand
Teeth kept floated
Changed feed
Ulcer ck scoped no ulcers and treated just because
So
Took her back to vet and had ovaries checked and YEP she gets huge and sore
So having mare marble put in.
Now I will say and add to this---
I have done some research and have talked to several vets. Race track n big hosp lameness vets on the magnetic blankets.
My chiro n race track. Has had a race client w 3 colts that stared reacting as to irratic behavior, bucking etc that previously didn't.
The owners had added daily magnetic blankets to the program.
One gelding started tying up n did so 2 times.
This vet advises them to stop using magnetics and behavior n symptoms stopped.
With that being said vet told me that some it helps and some it doesn't.
So try pulling this away from her and get the ovaries checked and see what you got.
FYI---
Folks DO NOT bash or send me any unsavory comments/messages to me on the magnetics as I AM NOT KNOCKING tHE USEAGE OR SUCCESS with them.
Just passing on a professional successful race track vets advise.
Original poster- I so hope u find your mares problem and get it fixed.
Vet bills n mystery problems make me tired :0/
Edited by Yakima 2015-07-11 8:55 AM
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Soon to be outta here:) | Yakima - 2015-07-11 8:46 AM
Jmo-
Get her ovaries checked- soreness during a heat cycle for some mares is very painful.
I'm a oddball mare person and love mares.
Mare is ran for many yrs came n cycle so hard and was horrible and a nasty ho. Lol for lack of a better term.
Had a mare marble put in by vet. Fixed her right up.
My young mare currently riding?
Slowed down from 1/2 d to 3/4d????
Quit eating and tried several feeds
Vitamins added
B12 shots
Back soreness.
Addressed Fitted w new saddle
Back, legs, Hocks AND stifles xrayed n injected and go hand n hand
Teeth kept floated
Changed feed
Ulcer ck scoped no ulcers and treated just because
So
Took her back to vet and had ovaries checked and YEP she gets huge and sore
So having mare marble put in.
Now I will say and add to this---
I have done some research and have talked to several vets. Race track n big hosp lameness vets on the magnetic blankets.
My chiro n race track. Has had a race client w 3 colts that stared reacting as to irratic behavior, bucking etc that previously didn't.
The owners had added daily magnetic blankets to the program.
One gelding started tying up n did so 2 times.
This vet advises them to stop using magnetics and behavior n symptoms stopped.
With that being said vet told me that some it helps and some it doesn't.
So try pulling this away from her and get the ovaries checked and see what you got.
FYI---
Folks DO NOT bash or send me any unsavory comments/messages to me on the magnetics as I AM NOT KNOCKING tHE USEAGE OR SUCCESS with them.
Just passing on a professional successful race track vets advise.
Original poster- I so hope u find your mares problem and get it fixed.
Vet bills n mystery problems make me tired :0/
She does have TERRIBLE heat cycles. When she's in heat, which is pretty much all the time, she leans on walls with her hip, she is constantly squatting and is just a pain. When I first bought her I couldn't do anything at all with her when she was in heat. She was crazy. She wouldn't even walk in a circle and if you put a leg on her she would freak out. She was on an injectable regumate but she stated swelling up huge and painful every time she was given the shot, it didn't matter who did it, me or a vet or where we did it. She would swell up at the injection site and it would be very painful. Since I couldn't figure that out I put her on regumate, which kept her out of heat but all of the videos from last year are her on regulate daily, so it really didn't help that much. Then last fall I took her down to a vet in Oklahoma who injects the space around her ovaries. She felt like a new horse after she had that done. She will still come into heat though, so I'm wondering if it doesn't last very long. She ran great the first few times after she had it done, but now we are back to the old same stuff. It does help an amazing amount after its been done though. Out of all the injections she's had, I noticed the biggest difference after getting her ovaries done.
She has had a complete reproductive exam, although she was NOT in heat when they did it, it was kind of a spur of the moment thing so I didn't have it planned out to when she would be in heat. I have heard a lot about the marble thing, I actually think she maybe had one for a little while with a previous owner, although I'm not sure how much it helped. But she was also an ulcer-y hot mess when I bought her so if the marble didn't work, it could have been one of the other 300 things that she needed worked on causing no improvement.
Do you know how much have the marble put in costs? Is it dangerous at all to them, have any negative side effects? Can any vet do that or would I need to talk to a specialist?
Her heat cycles are for sure a lingering problem, I was just hoping that now that I can ride her during her heat cycles that the injections helped enough that they would be all she needed. But since she still does come into heat, I guess that could be an issue still!
As for magnets I only use them rarely on her, I do have a blanket but I only put it on every once in a while, not even before every run |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 742
| If you can keep a marble in, it could help but I have never known anyone that their mares could keep them in. When they gave the Regumate/progest shot was it water based or oil based? My vet tries to only use water based so the chances of abscessing are minimal.
If I were you I would definitely go back to basics in training and not even worry about the barrel pattern for months and treat the heat cycles and the possible ulcers with Ulcergard. |
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | I am by no means an expert. And I haven't read all the comments.
However, I would have to agree with komet. You look really stiff in the video where she reared up. Let her go. She looks like a high calibur horse and in my opinion you ride well. You just look stiff and keep your arms in the same position it seems (holding her back). Lots of pent up energy in her and a hard runner at that. Spending less time in the alley way and letting her run instead of holding her back may help a lot. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | https://youtu.be/Xq-Vst3pO9M
OK I pondered to post because I dont want to sound harsh so please dont take this wrong.. but get help ..
IN the video above of you at home...From the minute you stepped on she was in control (she walked off right away) and your body langauge is saying go.. the energy level in these type horses.. their brain is on overdrive.. so its up to us as riders to calm and take it down a notch ... and yes I realize shes a barrel horse.. but they also need control and relaxation. its not all about the GO and the SPEED..I see you getting on and she walks off right away in a hyped up mode and you allow it.. I dont see any walking or suppling or flexing and getting her to relax.. these type horses need that and sometimes thats all these type horses need.. I dont think you have the tools yet to ride this horse properly without her blowing up at some point her brain..so a great trainer and the right one will help... I feel she should be evauluated and her feed program to. she and you have high nervous energy and the combo will end up a disaster for her and you... right now shes to much horse for you imho....and the video person in background just intensifies it..yelling ..sorry just my thoughts..mare needs calm reassurance and shes flying high in the videos.
I personally would not have paired you two up and not saying that in a bad way.. good luck I know your trying to do whats best so find a good trainer for you and her.please dont take this wrong its just how I see this from my perspective.
and this comment from your first post contradicts the videos.
..She's broke to death off barrels, I ride her in a snaffle, she works like a charm. She's off the track and the girl who bought her started her too fast too soon so I bought her quite a bit blown up. Anyone who has any sort of advice at all, please share. We do tons of slow work, rate every single time we get to a barrel
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10D Crack Champion
| I don't know anything about anything so keep that in mind when you read my advice. If you are sure this horse is not in any pain, (don't forget the teeth), saddle fits properly, your saddle fits you properly, stirrups are the correct length, etc, then have someone else ride the horse for you. Now when I say someone, I don't mean just anyone. I mean someone honest who rides a lot of barrel horses and rides them successfully. That is a great way to find out what your horse is doing with you and without you and why. Let that person slow work your horse and make an easy run if the person will do it....even if you have to pay the person to do it. That person can probably give you lots of helpful tips for you and this horse. |
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Soon to be outta here:) | Bibliafarm - 2015-07-11 10:01 PM
https://youtu.be/Xq-Vst3pO9M OK I pondered to post because I dont want to sound harsh so please dont take this wrong.. but get help ..
IN the video above of you at home...From the minute you stepped on she was in control (she walked off right away) and your body langauge is saying go.. the energy level in these type horses.. their brain is on overdrive.. so its up to us as riders to calm and take it down a notch ... and yes I realize shes a barrel horse.. but they also need control and relaxation. its not all about the GO and the SPEED..I see you getting on and she walks off right away in a hyped up mode and you allow it.. I dont see any walking or suppling or flexing and getting her to relax.. these type horses need that and sometimes thats all these type horses need.. I dont think you have the tools yet to ride this horse properly without her blowing up at some point her brain..so a great trainer and the right one will help... I feel she should be evauluated and her feed program to. she and you have high nervous energy and the combo will end up a disaster for her and you... right now shes to much horse for you imho....and the video person in background just intensifies it..yelling ..sorry just my thoughts..mare needs calm reassurance and shes flying high in the videos.
I personally would not have paired you two up and not saying that in a bad way.. good luck I know your trying to do whats best so find a good trainer for you and her.please dont take this wrong its just how I see this from my perspective.
and this comment from your first post contradicts the videos.
..She's broke to death off barrels, I ride her in a snaffle, she works like a charm. She's off the track and the girl who bought her started her too fast too soon so I bought her quite a bit blown up. Anyone who has any sort of advice at all, please share. We do tons of slow work, rate every single time we get to a barrel
I appreciate your opinion! I do agree that she was a lot of horse for me, and still probably is, but I would much rather look into getting help rather than giving up on her.
That video is from well over a year ago and no I didn't have much control. It was a couple weeks after that video that I started working with a trainer and we spent all summer, and winter, working on getting her more broke. If I don't have to work in the morning I will take a video of me riding her off barrels so people can see her work. She's not flawless obviously, but she has come leaps and bounds since that video was taken. At that time I would have been terrified to put her in a snaffle. Her head was 20 feet in the air, she was pushy, I couldn't even get her to calmly lope a circle in front of the barrels, I had to start further back and work our way up. She was a HOT mess and I didn't help. I was also riding in a 12 inch bob Marshall saddle, which was too small for me and caused me to grip with my legs to keep my seat... it was just a mess in every way. I learned a lot since that time and she would not be allowed to do that now. Now she stands still until I ask her to move and she needs to give to the bit the second I pick up on the reins and her feet don't move until I say its okay.... she is 10,000xs calmer now...she rides like a totally different horse hahaha!
I am 100% sure that there is still a lot of improvement that could happen, but she is much better than she was in that video! I would be more than happy to look into having more training to get her perfect, but it makes me cringe to watch that video and how I used to let her move and behave, I just hadn't ever had as much horse as her and didn't really know what I should do lol. Like you said, she's probably way too much horse for me, but I also do know that the advantage I have for her is that I have all the time in the world. I have no problem giving her all the time she needs to become a great barrel horse, and I know a lot of people wouldn't do that and I think it would end badly for her. I don't want to sell her, I love her so much, she wants to work and she has a huge heart and so much try. I want to exhaust literally every option before I would consider selling. |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | LDH - 2015-07-11 8:06 AM
komet. - 2015-07-11 1:23 AM
Am I the only one here that sees the problem? If you think you can override nature, you are mistaken.
Override nature as in that this horse isn't meant to be a barrel horse or...?
I don't know where you live... but I used to take horses like this out on a trail tide... but I'm not talking any trail ride... I used to live in the Mark Twain national forest.. I'd take a horse out... away from any trail. I'd make the horse weave it's way through the trees.. let it be a horse for a day... or two.. or more... as long as it takes... Too many drills is a bad thing... |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Bibliafarm - 2015-07-11 10:01 PM
https://youtu.be/Xq-Vst3pO9M OK I pondered to post because I dont want to sound harsh so please dont take this wrong.. but get help ..
IN the video above of you at home...From the minute you stepped on she was in control (she walked off right away) and your body langauge is saying go.. the energy level in these type horses.. their brain is on overdrive.. so its up to us as riders to calm and take it down a notch ... and yes I realize shes a barrel horse.. but they also need control and relaxation. its not all about the GO and the SPEED..I see you getting on and she walks off right away in a hyped up mode and you allow it.. I dont see any walking or suppling or flexing and getting her to relax.. these type horses need that and sometimes thats all these type horses need.. I dont think you have the tools yet to ride this horse properly without her blowing up at some point her brain..so a great trainer and the right one will help... I feel she should be evauluated and her feed program to. she and you have high nervous energy and the combo will end up a disaster for her and you... right now shes to much horse for you imho....and the video person in background just intensifies it..yelling ..sorry just my thoughts..mare needs calm reassurance and shes flying high in the videos.
I personally would not have paired you two up and not saying that in a bad way.. good luck I know your trying to do whats best so find a good trainer for you and her.please dont take this wrong its just how I see this from my perspective.
and this comment from your first post contradicts the videos.
..She's broke to death off barrels, I ride her in a snaffle, she works like a charm. She's off the track and the girl who bought her started her too fast too soon so I bought her quite a bit blown up. Anyone who has any sort of advice at all, please share. We do tons of slow work, rate every single time we get to a barrel
This is real sound, sensible advice. You have gotten a ton of good advice here. Take a step back and think about all the recommendations/observations people have made over and over again....then start fresh. I think this is a very talented mare you have. With a lot of help and a little luck you could end up having many successful years on her. You are both worth it. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | If you don't want to sell, I'd consider having someone put 30-60 days on her working on calming her down and putting a good foundation on her.
Then, take some lessons with that same person. I'm sure someone on here can pm you some names. Good luck!
Edited by barrelracr131 2015-07-12 10:40 AM
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Veteran
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Location: Soon to be outta here:) | Bear - 2015-07-12 10:01 AM
Bibliafarm - 2015-07-11 10:01 PM
https://youtu.be/Xq-Vst3pO9M OK I pondered to post because I dont want to sound harsh so please dont take this wrong.. but get help ..
IN the video above of you at home...From the minute you stepped on she was in control (she walked off right away) and your body langauge is saying go.. the energy level in these type horses.. their brain is on overdrive.. so its up to us as riders to calm and take it down a notch ... and yes I realize shes a barrel horse.. but they also need control and relaxation. its not all about the GO and the SPEED..I see you getting on and she walks off right away in a hyped up mode and you allow it.. I dont see any walking or suppling or flexing and getting her to relax.. these type horses need that and sometimes thats all these type horses need.. I dont think you have the tools yet to ride this horse properly without her blowing up at some point her brain..so a great trainer and the right one will help... I feel she should be evauluated and her feed program to. she and you have high nervous energy and the combo will end up a disaster for her and you... right now shes to much horse for you imho....and the video person in background just intensifies it..yelling ..sorry just my thoughts..mare needs calm reassurance and shes flying high in the videos.
I personally would not have paired you two up and not saying that in a bad way.. good luck I know your trying to do whats best so find a good trainer for you and her.please dont take this wrong its just how I see this from my perspective.
and this comment from your first post contradicts the videos.
..She's broke to death off barrels, I ride her in a snaffle, she works like a charm. She's off the track and the girl who bought her started her too fast too soon so I bought her quite a bit blown up. Anyone who has any sort of advice at all, please share. We do tons of slow work, rate every single time we get to a barrel
This is real sound, sensible advice. You have gotten a ton of good advice here. Take a step back and think about all the recommendations/observations people have made over and over again....then start fresh. I think this is a very talented mare you have. With a lot of help and a little luck you could end up having many successful years on her. You are both worth it.
Thank you! Yew we have gotten a lot of good advice. I already entered her in a big barrel race in a week, so if I can't find a replacement horse to run I will run her there, but after that she will be done running for the year. I am going to talk to a few people who are well known around here for lessons, both fro getting her as broke as possible and and look into attending a clinic on her later this year or next spring. I will just take time off barrels and go on trail rides, take her with to shows just to ride around but not exhibition or run, work cows on her, do everything that doesn't involve barrels haha.
I need to work on my riding, and on my horse. We are going to slow way down and completely start over. She really is a nice horse, I think she can be something. I'm really to take my time and wait on her to get her mind where it needs to be and get my riding more up to her level.
Again, thank you everyone for the advice! It really helped a lot! |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| You need to decide on you priorities. She has gotten worse since you first posted this. One more barrel race could be just what you need to finish the horse off. Is an entry fee worth that? |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| streakysox - 2015-07-12 1:22 PM You need to decide on you priorities. She has gotten worse since you first posted this. One more barrel race could be just what you need to finish the horse off. Is an entry fee worth that?
This. Money would be better spent getting help. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I admire that your asking for help or advice.I also think if you follow some and take a step back and really tune into her issues and listen you and her with the help and guidance of a professional could really do well . |
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| didn't watch all the vids, agree with all above encouraging you to seek local pro help but wanted to quickly add -
Rearing isn't always a big deal but make sure u can SIT a rear and spank one forward as soon as u can to get forward motion before they get too high and lose their balance, AND CHECK UR TACK because I was working on one very similar to yours for a girl since Feb. Three weeks ago she come up on me too fast for me to kick her forward, lost her balance fell on me and at the same time the off billet broke on the saddle catching my reins as it came off, drug her over top of me and now I am sitting here 8 weeks off with a titanium plate in my collarbone missing all my finals!
As for head setting. Have you tried schooling in draw reins? You will have to start back to basics as everyone has also said in posts above however if you have that headset and respect at the slower gaits you will have more control at the higher speeds because she can't evade you.
Good luck, be careful! |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Draw reins with this combo would spell trouble I highly advise against that. ..a professional could work thru this and decide. The mare is wired . she will panic
Edited by Bibliafarm 2015-07-12 3:15 PM
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Elite Veteran
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| I've read most of this. I was going to stay out of this, but here is my two cents. I HATE REARING HORSES. You cannot pay me to get on a stupid barrel horse. Any horse who will do that because you hold them back at the gate deserves to be dog food, IMHO. She didn't do it in the second run because you didn't hold her back.
Send her down the road. Take whatever you could get someone to give you for her. It's NOT worth it. |
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| FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-07-12 3:51 PM
I've read most of this. I was going to stay out of this, but here is my two cents. I HATE REARING HORSES. You cannot pay me to get on a stupid barrel horse. Any horse who will do that because you hold them back at the gate deserves to be dog food, IMHO. She didn't do it in the second run because you didn't hold her back.
Send her down the road. Take whatever you could get someone to give you for her. It's NOT worth it.
I was going to stay out of this too - I'm sorry you feel this way, but this is the exact reason I refuse to sell my mare. It sickens me to know that a few years ago, if she were to have been owned by someone else, she would be "dog food" right now. I have taken her on a complete 360, she was the rearing alley sour horse that everyone thought was going to kill me... now I have taken her places and helped OTHER alley sour horses in the gate.
NO horse is "too crazy" to fix. I absolutely guarantee that.
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| I am posting this video for a reason. Look at this nice filly as she works the barrels. This is a sale video because my trainer said get rid of her. My trainer is riding her and I am videoing. She is 4 years old and was on tack go to some futurities. WATCH THE VIDEO BEFORE YOU READ THE REST OF THE POST.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JubG-PdDtlU
She was started right. Looks good doesn't she? Working very nicely. She reared up with me and flipped. By the grace of God I was not hurt. I sent her to the killers because I knew she was going to hurt someone. Don't forget my trainer said get rid of her. I am smart enough to know when someone is trying to help me. Cut your losses before you get hurt. People are trying to tell help you here. |
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Elite Veteran
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| streakysox - 2015-07-12 7:25 PM I am posting this video for a reason. Look at this nice filly as she works the barrels. This is a sale video because my trainer said get rid of her. My trainer is riding her and I am videoing. She is 4 years old and was on tack go to some futurities. WATCH THE VIDEO BEFORE YOU READ THE REST OF THE POST. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JubG-PdDtlU She was started right. Looks good doesn't she? Working very nicely. She reared up with me and flipped. By the grace of God I was not hurt. I sent her to the killers because I knew she was going to hurt someone. Don't forget my trainer said get rid of her. I am smart enough to know when someone is trying to help me. Cut your losses before you get hurt. People are trying to tell help you here.
What happened between the video of your trainer riding and then you riding and her rearing? Did she show signs WHILE your trainer had her or once you got her to start running her? Did you buy her and your trainer warn you before this video or after? It just seems a bit confusing and I don't mean to sound rude, I'd just like to understand.
Sorry OP I don't mean to head off track here.  |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| achildres - 2015-07-12 7:01 PM
FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-07-12 3:51 PM
I've read most of this. I was going to stay out of this, but here is my two cents. I HATE REARING HORSES. You cannot pay me to get on a stupid barrel horse. Any horse who will do that because you hold them back at the gate deserves to be dog food, IMHO. She didn't do it in the second run because you didn't hold her back.
Send her down the road. Take whatever you could get someone to give you for her. It's NOT worth it.
I was going to stay out of this too - I'm sorry you feel this way, but this is the exact reason I refuse to sell my mare. It sickens me to know that a few years ago, if she were to have been owned by someone else, she would be "dog food" right now. I have taken her on a complete 360, she was the rearing alley sour horse that everyone thought was going to kill me... now I have taken her places and helped OTHER alley sour horses in the gate.
NO horse is "too crazy" to fix. I absolutely guarantee that.
LOL you want to ride my gelding some time and test your theory that NO horse is too crazy? Let see what other injuries he can add to his total of two broken backs, three broken arms, and two severe concussions that he has given to the other people who thought the same thing. I would let you work him on the pattern too, if you wanted, just let me go get three volunteers, a blind fold, and a set of hobbles to get him in the arena. Oh and the ride isn't done once you get him in there either, you better hold on tight on the way home, because every other stride will be a hard buck without even losing momentum.
Don't try to give me the whole no horse is too crazy bull. |
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| Take off the shanks, hobbles, blindfolds, tie downs, you name it; get a good vet and use REAL horsemanship and you will discover a whole new side to these perceived demon horses. These horses didn't wake up one morning with a hit list. I will never believe that these horses can't be rehabilitated into a nice horse with a job. |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| First of all this is very bad advice to give to someone who is already having problems that they cannot seem to fix themselves. Yes, they may be fixable but some are not worth it. Like the horse above that has just about killed everybody--he is truly not worth the effort to fix. The horse that I posted the video above had never been mistreated or ridden improperly. I kept the story short but all I did was pick up on the reins to get her to back up. Over she went. I gave her to my farrier to send to the killers and he seemed to think she was able to be salvaged. I told him to ask the guy who broke her, my trainer, and another guy. They all said put her on the truck and get rid of her. Could she have been fixed? Maybe. Was she worth trying? No. |
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Veteran
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Location: Soon to be outta here:) | I am not sending this mare to the kill pen, thank you for that input, however, that will not be happening.
I ride this mare daily in a snaffle and split reins and she works amazing. I took her on a three day trail ride though pastures and across creeks and through mud and she didn't blink an eye. Went exactly where I put her, when I asked, at a flat footed walk. She is not by any means crazy. Yes she can be hot, but I can lope the mare around an arena with no fence bareback and she works like an angel. She has never offered a buck or a rear any other time than when we were going in the gate that one time.
If this mare doesn't make a barrel horse for any reason I have a nice pasture where she will live and give me very nice babies and live a happy life as a trail horse and a broodmare.
She is not going to the kill pen.
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| LDH - 2015-07-13 12:44 AM
I am not sending this mare to the kill pen, thank you for that input, however, that will not be happening.
I ride this mare daily in a snaffle and split reins and she works amazing. I took her on a three day trail ride though pastures and across creeks and through mud and she didn't blink an eye. Went exactly where I put her, when I asked, at a flat footed walk. She is not by any means crazy. Yes she can be hot, but I can lope the mare around an arena with no fence bareback and she works like an angel. She has never offered a buck or a rear any other time than when we were going in the gate that one time.
If this mare doesn't make a barrel horse for any reason I have a nice pasture where she will live and give me very nice babies and live a happy life as a trail horse and a broodmare.
She is not going to the kill pen.
Go back and look at my video. See how nice this filly works? She never offered to do anything. My trainer said get rid of her beçause she knew what was coming. I have had horses that actually were MY horses for 60 years. In that time I have sold about six. My horses all have jobs and work. They don't work, they get rehomed. As you can see they must work pretty well because there is not much turn over here. I am not going to get hurt on a horse, but I learned a long time ago that most of my friends have given me advice to help me and I have listened. My trainer knew this horse was volatile. I am just glad that she did not get hurt and neither did I. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Personally I think with a professional and guidence and nutrition changes possibly this mare wouldnt be crazy.. she reared once going in and yes I know its all it takes but not being around her daily and even knowing her personality im not sure why others feel kill pen? you all dont know the mare.. the owner does BUT please get professional help for the barrels and arena work then.. DONT try to fix this yourself or the mare will blow up and it may end up a major disastor. after a Professional evaluates her and works her then decide what to do. give her a chance .I think its bad combo right now. Id not take her to barrels or work her on them .. Id get her to a professional then decide if shes worth it .. the professional will know if you and her will be compatable after training.. if not send her to someone that can handle her.. it may not be her mental state it may be her training, nutrition and lack of guidence.
Edited by Bibliafarm 2015-07-13 8:28 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 1304
| I'm not a trainer or a professional but I think that professional help would be my first go to as long as you don't suspect any pain issues. I know it can be expensive and stinks but I think with the right help you can get through this with her and she'd be great. If she continues to act out then I'd either sell her or just give her a different job but I think that she looks awesome if those problems can be fixed. If it becomes a regular problem though, call me a wimp, but I would have to find her a different home. I know you care and are doing what you can so good luck, prayers for you all!! |
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Bibliafarm - 2015-07-13 6:43 AM Personally I think with a professional and guidence and nutrition changes possibly this mare wouldnt be crazy.. she reared once going in and yes I know its all it takes but not being around her daily and even knowing her personality im not sure why others feel kill pen? you all dont know the mare.. the owner does BUT please get professional help for the barrels and arena work then.. DONT try to fix this yourself or the mare will blow up and it may end up a major disastor. after a Professional evaluates her and works her then decide what to do. give her a chance .I think its bad combo right now. Id not take her to barrels or work her on them .. Id get her to a professional then decide if shes worth it .. the professional will know if you and her will be compatable after training.. if not send her to someone that can handle her.. it may not be her mental state it may be her training, nutrition and lack of guidence. I agree....and the OP coming back time after time in this thread making EXCUSES will never solve the problem.......The combination of THIS rider and THIS horse is a volatile situation.....JMO
eta: This is NOT going to be a two week "cure".....this horse AND rider needs lots of SLOW.....SLOW.....SLOW work or the horse needs another JOB!
Edited by NJJ 2015-07-13 10:40 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 512
| This is a very nice mare and I commend you on your humble, willing, and dedicated attitude. You will go far whether with this horse or another horse just because of your desire to learn. We ALL can work on ourselves-we will never quit learning, even the best of the best have weaknesses.
I rode a horse many years ago that could have been this horses twin! Anyhow, I ended up sending him to a well known trainer and let them promote him and sold him. Bought a horse that fit my style-it worked out better for me.
Not saying you have to do this at all! But maybe if you see someone else ride your horse and do well-you can begin to gain some confidence. Have you talked with Amanda Nash? I know there are a ton of good riders in Minnesota.
But Amanda can ride-and has won on a ton of different horses. Just a thought. Jill Houck is great too! Riley Hanson out of Iowa has been a great jockey on several horses.
But I also recommend a natural horsemanship trainer-Ken McNab? Ray Hunt has some great insight. These trainers can help you get a handle on your foundation! Which is where it all starts anyhow! These gentlemen will bring anyone's understanding of soft, supple, and in control to a drastically new standard. A large portion of the performance world doesn't know what it truly means to have control of a horses body.
Good luck to you! Keep your chin up!
Edited by Blueridgedreaming 2015-07-13 10:14 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 512
| streakysox - 2015-07-13 2:33 AM
LDH - 2015-07-13 12:44 AM
I am not sending this mare to the kill pen, thank you for that input, however, that will not be happening.
I ride this mare daily in a snaffle and split reins and she works amazing. I took her on a three day trail ride though pastures and across creeks and through mud and she didn't blink an eye. Went exactly where I put her, when I asked, at a flat footed walk. She is not by any means crazy. Yes she can be hot, but I can lope the mare around an arena with no fence bareback and she works like an angel. She has never offered a buck or a rear any other time than when we were going in the gate that one time.
If this mare doesn't make a barrel horse for any reason I have a nice pasture where she will live and give me very nice babies and live a happy life as a trail horse and a broodmare.
She is not going to the kill pen.
Go back and look at my video. See how nice this filly works? She never offered to do anything. My trainer said get rid of her beçause she knew what was coming. I have had horses that actually were MY horses for 60 years. In that time I have sold about six. My horses all have jobs and work. They don't work, they get rehomed. As you can see they must work pretty well because there is not much turn over here. I am not going to get hurt on a horse, but I learned a long time ago that most of my friends have given me advice to help me and I have listened. My trainer knew this horse was volatile. I am just glad that she did not get hurt and neither did I.
Even if you send a horse to kill-so many people these days are rescuing horses from kill pens-and are selling as riding horses. If your intention is to have the horse destroyed-than why not euthanize yourself? Just a thought. |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| Holy moly!!!! I can't believe this thread is still going.... hahaha!!
I think it's funny to see all the posts about the horse needs to be sentenced to death because she reared up... Any good horse can be pushed to the point of rearing up! OP, You can't think that a couple weeks of slow work will fix this horse and you can come in mock9 and make a flawless run. She reared because you were in her face, your hands are heavy, not a bad thing but something you need to pay attention to.
Like 20 other people have posted... SLOW her down. That means in her runs too, she may think she wants to run fast but you need to be in control and slow her roll! I wouldn't let her move out of a lope for a while if she were mine, even during a competition run. The faster her feet move the slower her brain runs... She's a talented horse and looks like she is going to make a really nice horse, don't rush it! |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-07-12 3:51 PM I've read most of this. I was going to stay out of this, but here is my two cents. I HATE REARING HORSES. You cannot pay me to get on a stupid barrel horse. Any horse who will do that because you hold them back at the gate deserves to be dog food, IMHO. She didn't do it in the second run because you didn't hold her back. Send her down the road. Take whatever you could get someone to give you for her. It's NOT worth it.
She shouldn't just get to live in your pasture? What if she's really sweet on the ground? That sounds much different than the rant that you just posted on another thread.... |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | streakysox - 2015-07-12 7:25 PM I am posting this video for a reason. Look at this nice filly as she works the barrels. This is a sale video because my trainer said get rid of her. My trainer is riding her and I am videoing. She is 4 years old and was on tack go to some futurities. WATCH THE VIDEO BEFORE YOU READ THE REST OF THE POST. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JubG-PdDtlU She was started right. Looks good doesn't she? Working very nicely. She reared up with me and flipped. By the grace of God I was not hurt. I sent her to the killers because I knew she was going to hurt someone. Don't forget my trainer said get rid of her. I am smart enough to know when someone is trying to help me. Cut your losses before you get hurt. People are trying to tell help you here.
There are indications in that video that would tell me that she was stifle sore. Stifle sore horses will also get tired of being pounded on and rear when you ask them to back up. |
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Extreme Veteran
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| rachellyn80 - 2015-07-13 12:22 PM
streakysox - 2015-07-12 7:25 PM I am posting this video for a reason. Look at this nice filly as she works the barrels. This is a sale video because my trainer said get rid of her. My trainer is riding her and I am videoing. She is 4 years old and was on tack go to some futurities. WATCH THE VIDEO BEFORE YOU READ THE REST OF THE POST. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JubG-PdDtlU She was started right. Looks good doesn't she? Working very nicely. She reared up with me and flipped. By the grace of God I was not hurt. I sent her to the killers because I knew she was going to hurt someone. Don't forget my trainer said get rid of her. I am smart enough to know when someone is trying to help me. Cut your losses before you get hurt. People are trying to tell help you here.
Plus, watching this video and the other one posted of just arena work-this horse looks hardly broke enough to be started on barrels/or sore. When asked to back it showed significant resistance. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 742
| rachellyn80 - 2015-07-13 12:22 PM streakysox - 2015-07-12 7:25 PM I am posting this video for a reason. Look at this nice filly as she works the barrels. This is a sale video because my trainer said get rid of her. My trainer is riding her and I am videoing. She is 4 years old and was on tack go to some futurities. WATCH THE VIDEO BEFORE YOU READ THE REST OF THE POST. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JubG-PdDtlU She was started right. Looks good doesn't she? Working very nicely. She reared up with me and flipped. By the grace of God I was not hurt. I sent her to the killers because I knew she was going to hurt someone. Don't forget my trainer said get rid of her. I am smart enough to know when someone is trying to help me. Cut your losses before you get hurt. People are trying to tell help you here.
I too thought the horse looked sore in the backend. She looked a bit scotchy. SS, did you have her checked by a good performance vet before sending her to the killer? I have a pasture ornament that moves exactly like yours but his stifle was a career-ending thing. He never became unruly but you could def feel him being off and just not wanting to collect anymore. His head would go skyhigh on 2nd and 3rd. It was such a dissapointment because before the injury he was so fun to run. He was only 6 when it happened. Got 1st, 2nd and 3rd opinions. Nothing made him better and to this day you can clearly see the injury when he trots in the field.  |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
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Location: sunny california | rachellyn80 - 2015-07-13 10:19 AM FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-07-12 3:51 PM I've read most of this. I was going to stay out of this, but here is my two cents. I HATE REARING HORSES. You cannot pay me to get on a stupid barrel horse. Any horse who will do that because you hold them back at the gate deserves to be dog food, IMHO. She didn't do it in the second run because you didn't hold her back. Send her down the road. Take whatever you could get someone to give you for her. It's NOT worth it. She shouldn't just get to live in your pasture? What if she's really sweet on the ground? That sounds much different than the rant that you just posted on another thread....
talkin out both sides aren't ya flyan?
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 Chicken Chick
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Location: Texas | rachellyn80 - 2015-07-13 12:19 PM FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-07-12 3:51 PM I've read most of this. I was going to stay out of this, but here is my two cents. I HATE REARING HORSES. You cannot pay me to get on a stupid barrel horse. Any horse who will do that because you hold them back at the gate deserves to be dog food, IMHO. She didn't do it in the second run because you didn't hold her back. Send her down the road. Take whatever you could get someone to give you for her. It's NOT worth it. She shouldn't just get to live in your pasture? What if she's really sweet on the ground? That sounds much different than the rant that you just posted on another thread....
 Bam! |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| Try a dressage trainer ! Seriously .. I have a horse a lot like yours .. She was a runaway when she got going , but I have been having a dressage trainer ride her & you wouldn't believe the difference in her in just 2 weeks ! They are fixable .. It just depends how much time & money you want to put in them. I personally like your mare but I'd be getting help with her to get her right . |
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| streakysox - 2015-07-12 6:25 PM
I am posting this video for a reason. Look at this nice filly as she works the barrels. This is a sale video because my trainer said get rid of her. My trainer is riding her and I am videoing. She is 4 years old and was on tack go to some futurities. WATCH THE VIDEO BEFORE YOU READ THE REST OF THE POST.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JubG-PdDtlU
She was started right. Looks good doesn't she? Working very nicely. She reared up with me and flipped. By the grace of God I was not hurt. I sent her to the killers because I knew she was going to hurt someone. Don't forget my trainer said get rid of her. I am smart enough to know when someone is trying to help me. Cut your losses before you get hurt. People are trying to tell help you here.
So maybe if you felt she was going to hurt more people you should have had her humanly put down. Did you think maybe all the Facebook pages that try to save horses in kill pens would get her rehomed and someone may get killed?!?! SMH |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | kwanatha - 2015-07-13 2:17 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-07-13 10:19 AM FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-07-12 3:51 PM I've read most of this. I was going to stay out of this, but here is my two cents. I HATE REARING HORSES. You cannot pay me to get on a stupid barrel horse. Any horse who will do that because you hold them back at the gate deserves to be dog food, IMHO. She didn't do it in the second run because you didn't hold her back. Send her down the road. Take whatever you could get someone to give you for her. It's NOT worth it. She shouldn't just get to live in your pasture? What if she's really sweet on the ground? That sounds much different than the rant that you just posted on another thread....
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| Blueridgedreaming - 2015-07-13 10:06 AM
streakysox - 2015-07-13 2:33 AM
LDH - 2015-07-13 12:44 AM
I am not sending this mare to the kill pen, thank you for that input, however, that will not be happening.
I ride this mare daily in a snaffle and split reins and she works amazing. I took her on a three day trail ride though pastures and across creeks and through mud and she didn't blink an eye. Went exactly where I put her, when I asked, at a flat footed walk. She is not by any means crazy. Yes she can be hot, but I can lope the mare around an arena with no fence bareback and she works like an angel. She has never offered a buck or a rear any other time than when we were going in the gate that one time.
If this mare doesn't make a barrel horse for any reason I have a nice pasture where she will live and give me very nice babies and live a happy life as a trail horse and a broodmare.
She is not going to the kill pen.
Go back and look at my video. See how nice this filly works? She never offered to do anything. My trainer said get rid of her beçause she knew what was coming. I have had horses that actually were MY horses for 60 years. In that time I have sold about six. My horses all have jobs and work. They don't work, they get rehomed. As you can see they must work pretty well because there is not much turn over here. I am not going to get hurt on a horse, but I learned a long time ago that most of my friends have given me advice to help me and I have listened. My trainer knew this horse was volatile. I am just glad that she did not get hurt and neither did I.
Even if you send a horse to kill-so many people these days are rescuing horses from kill pens-and are selling as riding horses. If your intention is to have the horse destroyed-than why not euthanize yourself? Just a thought.
This is true and maybe a really good reason not to buy one from the kill pen. She was a very attractive horse. Had nice ground manners. Just not so nice when you rode her. I had about $4000 in training in her. All I will say is that I resolved my problem. Sometimes you have to cut your losses and move on. |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | streakysox - 2015-07-13 3:04 PM Blueridgedreaming - 2015-07-13 10:06 AM streakysox - 2015-07-13 2:33 AM LDH - 2015-07-13 12:44 AM I am not sending this mare to the kill pen, thank you for that input, however, that will not be happening. I ride this mare daily in a snaffle and split reins and she works amazing. I took her on a three day trail ride though pastures and across creeks and through mud and she didn't blink an eye. Went exactly where I put her, when I asked, at a flat footed walk. She is not by any means crazy. Yes she can be hot, but I can lope the mare around an arena with no fence bareback and she works like an angel. She has never offered a buck or a rear any other time than when we were going in the gate that one time. If this mare doesn't make a barrel horse for any reason I have a nice pasture where she will live and give me very nice babies and live a happy life as a trail horse and a broodmare. She is not going to the kill pen. Go back and look at my video. See how nice this filly works? She never offered to do anything. My trainer said get rid of her beçause she knew what was coming. I have had horses that actually were MY horses for 60 years. In that time I have sold about six. My horses all have jobs and work. They don't work, they get rehomed. As you can see they must work pretty well because there is not much turn over here. I am not going to get hurt on a horse, but I learned a long time ago that most of my friends have given me advice to help me and I have listened. My trainer knew this horse was volatile. I am just glad that she did not get hurt and neither did I. Even if you send a horse to kill-so many people these days are rescuing horses from kill pens-and are selling as riding horses. If your intention is to have the horse destroyed-than why not euthanize yourself? Just a thought. This is true and maybe a really good reason not to buy one from the kill pen. She was a very attractive horse. Had nice ground manners. Just not so nice when you rode her. I had about $4000 in training in her. All I will say is that I resolved my problem. Sometimes you have to cut your losses and move on.
...Or maybe an even better reason to euthanize rather than send them to Mexico. This is an incredibly calloused example of how some people can write off a horse and forget what they are now forced to endure.
Don't think that I'm anti-slaughter, because I'm not. Ultimately it's more humane than starvation, but this type of shipping is the worst. The supposed "responsible" horse owners, that should know better, sending a young healthy filly to her death to recoup the small fee that you can get for her by the pound is awful. That filly was incredibly uncomfortable in those videos and sentencing her to this for your own ignorance should be criminal. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | I think this thread is getting a bit off track...
op, have you had any luck finding a trainer? |
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| rachellyn80 - 2015-07-13 2:10 PM
streakysox - 2015-07-13 3:04 PM Blueridgedreaming - 2015-07-13 10:06 AM streakysox - 2015-07-13 2:33 AM LDH - 2015-07-13 12:44 AM I am not sending this mare to the kill pen, thank you for that input, however, that will not be happening. I ride this mare daily in a snaffle and split reins and she works amazing. I took her on a three day trail ride though pastures and across creeks and through mud and she didn't blink an eye. Went exactly where I put her, when I asked, at a flat footed walk. She is not by any means crazy. Yes she can be hot, but I can lope the mare around an arena with no fence bareback and she works like an angel. She has never offered a buck or a rear any other time than when we were going in the gate that one time. If this mare doesn't make a barrel horse for any reason I have a nice pasture where she will live and give me very nice babies and live a happy life as a trail horse and a broodmare. She is not going to the kill pen. Go back and look at my video. See how nice this filly works? She never offered to do anything. My trainer said get rid of her beçause she knew what was coming. I have had horses that actually were MY horses for 60 years. In that time I have sold about six. My horses all have jobs and work. They don't work, they get rehomed. As you can see they must work pretty well because there is not much turn over here. I am not going to get hurt on a horse, but I learned a long time ago that most of my friends have given me advice to help me and I have listened. My trainer knew this horse was volatile. I am just glad that she did not get hurt and neither did I. Even if you send a horse to kill-so many people these days are rescuing horses from kill pens-and are selling as riding horses. If your intention is to have the horse destroyed-than why not euthanize yourself? Just a thought. This is true and maybe a really good reason not to buy one from the kill pen. She was a very attractive horse. Had nice ground manners. Just not so nice when you rode her. I had about $4000 in training in her. All I will say is that I resolved my problem. Sometimes you have to cut your losses and move on.
Don't think that I'm anti-slaughter, because I'm not. Ultimately it's more humane than starvation, but this type of shipping is the worst. The supposed "responsible" horse owners, that should know better, sending a young healthy filly to her death to recoup the small fee that you can get for her by the pound is awful. That filly was incredibly uncomfortable in those videos and sentencing her to this for your own ignorance should be criminal.
Yes you cut your losses and moved on and now someone else may get killed.
I am not anti slaughter at all. But fact is people do buy from kill pens. I just did and I Took a chance but when I brought him home it was with the intention if he was crazy or had major health issues if do the right thing and have HUMANLY put down as he became my responsibility as a horse owner not to let someone else have a problem. Fortunately I lucked out and he is a amazing OTTB |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| OK, if someone buys a horse from the killer pen, that's their chance to take! There is a reason there are killer horses! Someone didn't want them; A-their crazy, B-their hurt, or C-some backyard breeder got in over their head. So if your an individual that wants to gamble in the sale barn, than the fault falls on you if you get hurt... |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| gunsmoke - 2015-07-13 3:27 PM
rachellyn80 - 2015-07-13 2:10 PM
streakysox - 2015-07-13 3:04 PM Blueridgedreaming - 2015-07-13 10:06 AM streakysox - 2015-07-13 2:33 AM LDH - 2015-07-13 12:44 AM I am not sending this mare to the kill pen, thank you for that input, however, that will not be happening. I ride this mare daily in a snaffle and split reins and she works amazing. I took her on a three day trail ride though pastures and across creeks and through mud and she didn't blink an eye. Went exactly where I put her, when I asked, at a flat footed walk. She is not by any means crazy. Yes she can be hot, but I can lope the mare around an arena with no fence bareback and she works like an angel. She has never offered a buck or a rear any other time than when we were going in the gate that one time. If this mare doesn't make a barrel horse for any reason I have a nice pasture where she will live and give me very nice babies and live a happy life as a trail horse and a broodmare. She is not going to the kill pen. Go back and look at my video. See how nice this filly works? She never offered to do anything. My trainer said get rid of her beçause she knew what was coming. I have had horses that actually were MY horses for 60 years. In that time I have sold about six. My horses all have jobs and work. They don't work, they get rehomed. As you can see they must work pretty well because there is not much turn over here. I am not going to get hurt on a horse, but I learned a long time ago that most of my friends have given me advice to help me and I have listened. My trainer knew this horse was volatile. I am just glad that she did not get hurt and neither did I. Even if you send a horse to kill-so many people these days are rescuing horses from kill pens-and are selling as riding horses. If your intention is to have the horse destroyed-than why not euthanize yourself? Just a thought. This is true and maybe a really good reason not to buy one from the kill pen. She was a very attractive horse. Had nice ground manners. Just not so nice when you rode her. I had about $4000 in training in her. All I will say is that I resolved my problem. Sometimes you have to cut your losses and move on.
Don't think that I'm anti-slaughter, because I'm not. Ultimately it's more humane than starvation, but this type of shipping is the worst. The supposed "responsible" horse owners, that should know better, sending a young healthy filly to her death to recoup the small fee that you can get for her by the pound is awful. That filly was incredibly uncomfortable in those videos and sentencing her to this for your own ignorance should be criminal.
Yes you cut your losses and moved on and now someone else may get killed.
I am not anti slaughter at all. But fact is people do buy from kill pens. I just did and I Took a chance but when I brought him home it was with the intention if he was crazy or had major health issues if do the right thing and have HUMANLY put down as he became my responsibility as a horse owner not to let someone else have a problem. Fortunately I lucked out and he is a amazing OTTB
Sorry folks, I did what I thought was the correct thing to do. I had some girl that wanted to buy her and fix her. She wanted me to go get the horse off the truck. I could have very easily run her through a sale and gotten way more than the $200 that I got for her. I have no control over who buys from a kill pen. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 512
| streakysox - 2015-07-13 3:04 PM
Blueridgedreaming - 2015-07-13 10:06 AM
streakysox - 2015-07-13 2:33 AM
LDH - 2015-07-13 12:44 AM
I am not sending this mare to the kill pen, thank you for that input, however, that will not be happening.
I ride this mare daily in a snaffle and split reins and she works amazing. I took her on a three day trail ride though pastures and across creeks and through mud and she didn't blink an eye. Went exactly where I put her, when I asked, at a flat footed walk. She is not by any means crazy. Yes she can be hot, but I can lope the mare around an arena with no fence bareback and she works like an angel. She has never offered a buck or a rear any other time than when we were going in the gate that one time.
If this mare doesn't make a barrel horse for any reason I have a nice pasture where she will live and give me very nice babies and live a happy life as a trail horse and a broodmare.
She is not going to the kill pen.
Go back and look at my video. See how nice this filly works? She never offered to do anything. My trainer said get rid of her beçause she knew what was coming. I have had horses that actually were MY horses for 60 years. In that time I have sold about six. My horses all have jobs and work. They don't work, they get rehomed. As you can see they must work pretty well because there is not much turn over here. I am not going to get hurt on a horse, but I learned a long time ago that most of my friends have given me advice to help me and I have listened. My trainer knew this horse was volatile. I am just glad that she did not get hurt and neither did I.
Even if you send a horse to kill-so many people these days are rescuing horses from kill pens-and are selling as riding horses. If your intention is to have the horse destroyed-than why not euthanize yourself? Just a thought.
This is true and maybe a really good reason not to buy one from the kill pen. She was a very attractive horse. Had nice ground manners. Just not so nice when you rode her. I had about $4000 in training in her. All I will say is that I resolved my problem. Sometimes you have to cut your losses and move on.
I beleive we all try to make the best choice possible at the time! Sometimes it is just so tough and a lose-lose situation with horses. |
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Soon to be outta here:) |
I don't believe I ever came back and made excuses...but the situation did need explaining so I did that. I fully admit that a lot of the problem is most likely me, I fully admit that the mare needs more slow work and I am ready and more than willing to do that.
If anyone else could get on this mare and run perfect patterns I may consider selling her to someone who can do her justice. However at this point, NO ONE has been able to run perfect patterns on her. I have had some of the best riders from up here run her, including one who is mentioned further down this thread for me to try, and while she does a little better, zip has ran to the fence with her and blown way off third, and tried to crash barrels. She has been better but not perfect. Which means as much as I have to work on, it's not 100% me. If it was I would probably sell her right now to someone who can do her justice, but because that isn't the case and I can't find anyone to run her well to market her, I will continue to work with her. Slowly and off barrels and doing everything from the ground up over. She really is a great horse. As much as people can disagree with me, I like her. And that's really all that matters.
She isn't going to a kill pen under any circumstances. She has great ground manners and great papers and like I said, I have a very nice pasture she can live in and give me wicked little babies.
I asked for advice on what to do to HELP the mare, and all of the helpful advice I have taken to heart and really appreciate and will be using. We are starting over completely with training and will try and see where we are in the spring when we will be attending a clinic by a professional. Depending on how that goes will decide the rest of her career. But I can assure everyone, the kill pen is not in this mares future.
Also, I will be having her stifles looked at. When she was down to Kathy Brown she didn't test sore on her stifles, but she hasn't ever liked backing up so those will be getting looked at soon.
Thank you to whoever mentioned that!
I appreciate the advice from everyone, I'm not ready to give up on this mare yet. People have given up on her countless times because they wern't willing to put the time into her she needed. I am willing to wait. I have another horse to run, I have no issues with waiting on something that could be good. I appreciate everyone's advice. I will reevaluate her for barrels next spring. Thanks again everyone. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I think what a lot of people will tell you that, given the way she is now, probably nobody could ride her and make a decent run on her at this stage. Just throwing good riders on her back and hoping for good results won't prove much, and might even make matters worse. I would forget that approach. You mentioned that you have her entered in an upcoming big jackpot and then AFTERWARDS you are going to give her a break, then start from scratch. My question is why the need to run her in anything? Even if you can't find something else to ride, I wouldn't run her. Cut your losses for now and draw out. You have gotten a ton of advice, and basically the overwhelming opinion is both of you could benefit from some good, professional help. I think she is a talented mare...very talented, in fact. I think if you play your cards right this could wind up with a happy ending, rather than the disaster that so many feel looms ahead, if you continue to be refractory to learning. If it were me, I would put her away for a few months, minimum, and then send her away to a very good trainer....not some low bid local part timer...I'm talking a real excellent pro, probably one who will simply fix her and get her properly broke, with a nice handle. After that, I would get some help with riding her correctly.......starting even at a walk, because I have a feeling she's feeling your energy the minute you swing a leg over her. You can just see it. Take your time and don't take any shortcuts. If you take the easy way out or short change yourselves, the results could be tragic. If this takes a year, who cares? I think you are BOTH worth it. Nothing would be more fun to read about than to hear about a great outcome a year from now! |
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Bear - 2015-07-15 7:30 PM I think what a lot of people will tell you that, given the way she is now, probably nobody could ride her and make a decent run on her at this stage. Just throwing good riders on her back and hoping for good results won't prove much, and might even make matters worse. I would forget that approach. You mentioned that you have her entered in an upcoming big jackpot and then AFTERWARDS you are going to give her a break, then start from scratch. My question is why the need to run her in anything? Even if you can't find something else to ride, I wouldn't run her. Cut your losses for now and draw out. You have gotten a ton of advice, and basically the overwhelming opinion is both of you could benefit from some good, professional help. I think she is a talented mare...very talented, in fact. I think if you play your cards right this could wind up with a happy ending, rather than the disaster that so many feel looms ahead, if you continue to be refractory to learning. If it were me, I would put her away for a few months, minimum, and then send her away to a very good trainer....not some low bid local part timer...I'm talking a real excellent pro, probably one who will simply fix her and get her properly broke, with a nice handle. After that, I would get some help with riding her correctly.......starting even at a walk, because I have a feeling she's feeling your energy the minute you swing a leg over her. You can just see it. Take your time and don't take any shortcuts. If you take the easy way out or short change yourselves, the results could be tragic. If this takes a year, who cares? I think you are BOTH worth it. Nothing would be more fun to read about than to hear about a great outcome a year from now!
Agreed! |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| It sounds like you are wanting to learn, that is good.
I am not going to comment on the horse, never watched the videos, but did read all the comments.
One thing I will say is a lameness locator may be beneficial to see if she is hurting somewhere.
So if you are wanting to learn a few things that could help you
Ed wright book, everyone who has it say they use it constantly, he has a website you can buy it off of
Dena Kirkpatrick one smooth run (I believe the title is) DVD
Sheri cervi with Clinton anderson barrel racing DVD
Ed and dena's philosophy on where the person sits is different, but everything else is similar
Judy myllimacki had a great video and it contains quite a few drills without barrels, this will be beneficial for you sorry I can't remember what it is called
Sharon Camarillo I have been to her clinic, and it is geared towards horsemanship, so I am guessing her book and video would be the same, this may be somewhere to start, but she does ride different then the above, IMO, still good information.
After you find a style you like or can understand, try and go to one of their clinics
Good luck
I do believe all that matters is you liking the horse, the willingness to work with horse, and patience, if she has only reared once, probably she is getting mixed signals |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | LDH - 2015-07-13 12:44 AM
I am not sending this mare to the kill pen, thank you for that input, however, that will not be happening.
I ride this mare daily in a snaffle and split reins and she works amazing. I took her on a three day trail ride though pastures and across creeks and through mud and she didn't blink an eye. Went exactly where I put her, when I asked, at a flat footed walk. She is not by any means crazy. Yes she can be hot, but I can lope the mare around an arena with no fence bareback and she works like an angel. She has never offered a buck or a rear any other time than when we were going in the gate that one time.
If this mare doesn't make a barrel horse for any reason I have a nice pasture where she will live and give me very nice babies and live a happy life as a trail horse and a broodmare.
She is not going to the kill pen.
Good for you for standing up for your mare and giving her a chance at WHATEVER her career may be. . . |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | if you don't get a different result after professional help there are so many other horse jobs or fun things to do with her that doesn't involve arena and speed |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| rachellyn80 - 2015-07-13 1:19 PM
FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-07-12 3:51 PM I've read most of this. I was going to stay out of this, but here is my two cents. I HATE REARING HORSES. You cannot pay me to get on a stupid barrel horse. Any horse who will do that because you hold them back at the gate deserves to be dog food, IMHO. She didn't do it in the second run because you didn't hold her back. Send her down the road. Take whatever you could get someone to give you for her. It's NOT worth it.
She shouldn't just get to live in your pasture? What if she's really sweet on the ground? That sounds much different than the rant that you just posted on another thread....
Different OP, Different posts, different fixes. This OP is making excuses for the horse, so this horse automatically strikes me as spoiled and has been allowed to get away with things. That's a lot harder, or sometimes not possible, to fix than an owner who is too ignorant to fix a HURT HORSE.
HURT is a lot different than BLOWN UP. |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-07-16 1:39 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-07-13 1:19 PM FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-07-12 3:51 PM I've read most of this. I was going to stay out of this, but here is my two cents. I HATE REARING HORSES. You cannot pay me to get on a stupid barrel horse. Any horse who will do that because you hold them back at the gate deserves to be dog food, IMHO. She didn't do it in the second run because you didn't hold her back. Send her down the road. Take whatever you could get someone to give you for her. It's NOT worth it. She shouldn't just get to live in your pasture? What if she's really sweet on the ground? That sounds much different than the rant that you just posted on another thread.... Different OP, Different posts, different fixes. This OP is making excuses for the horse, so this horse automatically strikes me as spoiled and has been allowed to get away with things. That's a lot harder, or sometimes not possible, to fix than an owner who is too ignorant to fix a HURT HORSE. HURT is a lot different than BLOWN UP.
You are right, but it's completely contradictory from what you said about the other horse. Why does this mare deserve such harsh judgement? Her issues are very obviously manmade. Here's a direct quote:
"That is why she most likely is putting him down next week. No liability and no commitment to a horse that has not done the job he was purchased to do. There is no emotional connection." You sound like a heartless ***** to be honest. You make a commitment to a horse the second he becomes yours. I would suggest that you guys get in a new line of business if that's how you feel about your partners. I'm so ****ed off at that comment that I just don't even know what to say. I hope your friend doesn't think that way, because that horse deserves better than you.
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| Blueridgedreaming - 2015-07-13 12:37 PM
rachellyn80 - 2015-07-13 12:22 PM
streakysox - 2015-07-12 7:25 PM I am posting this video for a reason. Look at this nice filly as she works the barrels. This is a sale video because my trainer said get rid of her. My trainer is riding her and I am videoing. She is 4 years old and was on tack go to some futurities. WATCH THE VIDEO BEFORE YOU READ THE REST OF THE POST. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JubG-PdDtlU She was started right. Looks good doesn't she? Working very nicely. She reared up with me and flipped. By the grace of God I was not hurt. I sent her to the killers because I knew she was going to hurt someone. Don't forget my trainer said get rid of her. I am smart enough to know when someone is trying to help me. Cut your losses before you get hurt. People are trying to tell help you here.
Plus, watching this video and the other one posted of just arena work-this horse looks hardly broke enough to be started on barrels/or sore. When asked to back it showed significant resistance.
I won't lie, this is exactly what I thought when I saw the video. That horse doesn't look broke enough for the pattern. Holes in training can cause all kinds of issues. Including rearing. I don't call myself a trainer but I start my own and I wouldn't have that horse on the barrels yet. Looked stiff, resistant and disrespectful wether due to lack of training or soreness.
As for the original poster, honestly I would find a dressage trainer and give the mare another job while still hauling her to races but not running. Dressage was the best thing I could have ever done for my horses. Made them whole new animals. The mares brain is obviously frazzled. The dressage will get her focussing and work on your riding at the same time while still hauling her and not running will help her brain to relax at a race. Finding a dressage trainer helped my riding 10 fold which has made my finished mare go from 2D-3D to 1D-2D and my colts learn so much faster because my body is agreeing with my hands and brain lol. |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| This is exactly what I said way back there but op says she is well broke. Might be a case of what I think is broke as compared to what other people think is broke. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| rachellyn80 - 2015-07-16 3:25 PM
FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-07-16 1:39 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-07-13 1:19 PM FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-07-12 3:51 PM I've read most of this. I was going to stay out of this, but here is my two cents. I HATE REARING HORSES. You cannot pay me to get on a stupid barrel horse. Any horse who will do that because you hold them back at the gate deserves to be dog food, IMHO. She didn't do it in the second run because you didn't hold her back. Send her down the road. Take whatever you could get someone to give you for her. It's NOT worth it. She shouldn't just get to live in your pasture? What if she's really sweet on the ground? That sounds much different than the rant that you just posted on another thread.... Different OP, Different posts, different fixes. This OP is making excuses for the horse, so this horse automatically strikes me as spoiled and has been allowed to get away with things. That's a lot harder, or sometimes not possible, to fix than an owner who is too ignorant to fix a HURT HORSE. HURT is a lot different than BLOWN UP.
Exactly, manmade. I'm harsher on this horse because my friend just bought one that acts just like this. I told him the same thing I said here, send her to the meat pen. Because she's so blown up, that she can't even ride off the pattern. You can't sit on her without her trying to FLIP OVER at the finest touch. This horse is presenting the warning signs, and the owner is ignoring them. So if the rider is not going to STOP the progression now, she's going to be a nutcase that is dangerous to even sit on. |
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One Grateful Mom
Posts: 2702
Location: wolverton,mn | I don't see the owner" ignoring" her horses shortcomings. She put it all out there for everyone to have a shot at her.
The ones making excuses are the ignorant,self righteous poster ( s) that try and cover for the callous comments made to a girl about a horse she's trying to work with.
A horse can rear and not be a " problem" horse. This is not a kid that owns the horse,it's a owner who is Trying to get help.
I'm no Pat Parelli wanna be,but I sure wouldn't tell this girl to send her horse to the " meat pen"
S.M.H at the callousness of the highflying poster.......it's not always black and white when you truly take ownership and responsibility for a life! |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | She identifed she had problems
She asked for advice and help
That is a nice horse "I think from what i can tell" without being there but needs to defrag her brain and learn relaxation and basic stuff..
I think with the right professional taking the horse in training for a few months to defrag it and then working with rider and horse to relax and learn basic foundational work and rider learn to control her energy.. they will be a nice pair.. jmo but now not later.. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| hotbear03 - 2015-07-16 8:24 PM
I don't see the owner" ignoring" her horses shortcomings. She put it all out there for everyone to have a shot at her.
The ones making excuses are the ignorant,self righteous poster ( s) that try and cover for the callous comments made to a girl about a horse she's trying to work with.
A horse can rear and not be a " problem" horse. This is not a kid that owns the horse,it's a owner who is Trying to get help.
I'm no Pat Parelli wanna be,but I sure wouldn't tell this girl to send her horse to the " meat pen"
S.M.H at the callousness of the highflying poster.......it's not always black and white when you truly take ownership and responsibility for a life!
I'm not the only one who thinks it or that has said it. So don't play it off as I am. We just aren't blowing smoke either. By ignoring the rearing, which she did, she told that horse that she didn't do anything wrong and that by being stupid, she gets to run. Anyone with a brain can see this is just going to get worse with that outlook. She's made excuses for the behavior, she isn't making the horse be accountable. By not making the horse be accountable, she will be ruined sooner than later.
Any horse that rears does have a problem. Rearing in itself is a problem. One that either needs trained out of them or put up with by people stupider than me, because I won't ride one who makes a habit of it. The first time they rear, you set a precedent with that horse on how you respond. She told that horse, ok you're in charge. Bad response that is going to lead to more problems later.
I may sound harsh, but I just don't want her next post to be 'Severely injured after horse flips over' or worse, see her name in remembrance when she dies from it. Rearing is NOT a joke, sorry if I just take it a bit more seriously than others. |
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 Expert
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Location: Texas | Put her in a round pen and teach her how to keep moving with a tiedown. She needs one!!!!!!!!!!!! Plus stop lifting ride two handed then pull back not out. Your delay from lift to turn is to long. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| mollibtexan - 2015-07-16 9:47 PM
Put her in a round pen and teach her how to keep moving with a tiedown. She needs one!!!!!!!!!!!! Plus stop lifting ride two handed then pull back not out. Your delay from lift to turn is to long.
Have you trained winning horses, like futurity and rodeo type horses? Have they been quiet and lasted?
Not being a smart a$$, just curious. |
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 A Barrel Of Monkeys
Posts: 12972
Location: Texas | Itsme - 2015-07-16 9:59 PM mollibtexan - 2015-07-16 9:47 PM Put her in a round pen and teach her how to keep moving with a tiedown. She needs one!!!!!!!!!!!! Plus stop lifting ride two handed then pull back not out. Your delay from lift to turn is to long. Have you trained winning horses, like futurity and rodeo type horses? Have they been quiet and lasted? Not being a smart a$$, just curious.
Yep, I'd say she's trained a winner or two. |
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Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | Yes absolutely. My reputation is for training quiet, lasting horses, and horses that are easy to ride. These are just a few videos from this year all futurity horses.
Twin Lakes Futurity winner 2015
http://youtu.be/yOpZF4Tkl54
http://youtu.be/yOpZF4Tkl54
http://youtu.be/ZuHi2fJTZkI
http://youtu.be/ukszcMSlnqo
http://youtu.be/1XwDXDGkmZg
Fastest time of the BFA Derby 2015
http://youtu.be/rh6nQ9mGcD8
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 Georgia Peach
Posts: 8338
Location: Georgia | mollibtexan - 2015-07-16 10:47 PM Put her in a round pen and teach her how to keep moving with a tiedown. She needs one!!!!!!!!!!!! Plus stop lifting ride two handed then pull back not out. Your delay from lift to turn is to long. I have not real all the posts but I did watch videos. Sorry if this has been said.
TIE DOWNS ARE NOT A SOLUTION to fix a training issue. DO NOT put a tie down on this horse until it becomes a last resort (maybe not even then). Assuming this mare is healthy and sound....take her back to basics. Spend a couple week in the roundpen. Make her move away from pressure, give to pressure, break at the poll, respond to leg cues, etc. Seriously just wet some saddle pads until this mare is a pro in that roundpen. Then break out and make her do all those things in an open space. If she is good to go after a few days of dry work, take her back to the barrels and spend a few weeks doing pattern work. By pattern work...I mean sit her hiney down at your rate point over and over again until she sits down on her own without you lifting a finger. Use body cues and less hands. Dont run her fast at all during this period. If you do, you will ruin your hard work. Once she sits down on her own at the barrels, responds well to all your cues then take her to a barrel race and I promise you will have a new horse. And just a note...speak to your horse. You have no idea how much a simple "whoa" at the barrel will help her understand to rate. Good luck!!!
Wanted to point out that I am by no means an expert or a trainer but this has worked for me in the past.
Edited by Runninbay 2015-07-16 10:21 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | She asked for help just trying to give her some suggestions that could help her. I don't come on here to fight over my opinion or justify it. I know how frustrating it can be at times. I rarely read what others even post just try to help the poster if I can. I never claim to know everything bc I don't. |
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Georgia Peach
Posts: 8338
Location: Georgia | mollibtexan - 2015-07-16 11:23 PM She asked for help just trying to give her some suggestions that could help her. I don't come on here to fight over my opinion or justify it. I know how frustrating it can be at times. I rarely read what others even post just try to help the poster if I can. I never claim to know everything bc I don't.
I understand but I think this is a training issue. It needs to be addressed before throwing a tie down on the mare as a temporary fix. |
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Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | Runninbay - 2015-07-16 10:29 PM
mollibtexan - 2015-07-16 11:23 PM She asked for help just trying to give her some suggestions that could help her. I don't come on here to fight over my opinion or justify it. I know how frustrating it can be at times. I rarely read what others even post just try to help the poster if I can. I never claim to know everything bc I don't.
I understand but I think this is a training issue. It needs to be addressed before throwing a tie down on the mare as a temporary fix.
I agree 100% but she said the horse is broke and moves off leg pressure and looks like has been running a while. I have no idea why everyone is so against tools that will help aid your horse I being successful. The horse can't even see the first barrel bc he is counting the lights in the arena....maybe if the horse could see the barrel she might have a better chance of turning it correctly. |
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Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | Itsme - 2015-07-16 9:59 PM
mollibtexan - 2015-07-16 9:47 PM
Put her in a round pen and teach her how to keep moving with a tiedown. She needs one!!!!!!!!!!!! Plus stop lifting ride two handed then pull back not out. Your delay from lift to turn is to long.
Have you trained winning horses, like futurity and rodeo type horses? Have they been quiet and lasted?
Not being a smart a$$, just curious.
https://www.trainingbarrelhorses.com/index.php/component/k2/item/391... |
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 Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Fun2Run - 2015-07-16 10:10 PM
Itsme - 2015-07-16 9:59 PM mollibtexan - 2015-07-16 9:47 PM Put her in a round pen and teach her how to keep moving with a tiedown. She needs one!!!!!!!!!!!! Plus stop lifting ride two handed then pull back not out. Your delay from lift to turn is to long. Have you trained winning horses, like futurity and rodeo type horses? Have they been quiet and lasted? Not being a smart a$$, just curious.
Lol....yeah, just one or two.... |
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Expert
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Right on, I was told not to use a tiediwn on a horse with a poor foundation. But I was also taught everyone does things differently. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| I didnt notice those were videos in your post, ill go back and check them out. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| Well ****, I didnt know you were Molli Montgomery. That stud horse at the BFA is a bad dude. |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | mollibtexan - 2015-07-16 10:43 PM
Itsme - 2015-07-16 9:59 PM
mollibtexan - 2015-07-16 9:47 PM
Put her in a round pen and teach her how to keep moving with a tiedown. She needs one!!!!!!!!!!!! Plus stop lifting ride two handed then pull back not out. Your delay from lift to turn is to long.
Have you trained winning horses, like futurity and rodeo type horses? Have they been quiet and lasted?
Not being a smart a$$, just curious.
Seems legit to me....lol.Neat about the tent, camper and Three Bars, Molli. I think I could listen to your stories all day. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| LRQHS - 2015-07-16 11:41 PM
mollibtexan - 2015-07-16 10:43 PM
Itsme - 2015-07-16 9:59 PM
mollibtexan - 2015-07-16 9:47 PM
Put her in a round pen and teach her how to keep moving with a tiedown. She needs one!!!!!!!!!!!! Plus stop lifting ride two handed then pull back not out. Your delay from lift to turn is to long.
Have you trained winning horses, like futurity and rodeo type horses? Have they been quiet and lasted?
Not being a smart a$$, just curious.
Seems legit to me....lol.Neat about the tent, camper and Three Bars, Molli. I think I could listen to your stories all day.
Id send my daughter to train with her anytime. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | This thread got awesome |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | Itsme - 2015-07-17 1:11 AM LRQHS - 2015-07-16 11:41 PM mollibtexan - 2015-07-16 10:43 PM Itsme - 2015-07-16 9:59 PM mollibtexan - 2015-07-16 9:47 PM Put her in a round pen and teach her how to keep moving with a tiedown. She needs one!!!!!!!!!!!! Plus stop lifting ride two handed then pull back not out. Your delay from lift to turn is to long. Have you trained winning horses, like futurity and rodeo type horses? Have they been quiet and lasted? Not being a smart a$$, just curious. Seems legit to me....lol.Neat about the tent, camper and Three Bars, Molli. I think I could listen to your stories all day. Id send my daughter to train with her anytime.
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| For the record, if that were my (daughters) horse it would still get more of a handle and NOT a tiedown. |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | mollibtexan - 2015-07-16 10:36 PM Runninbay - 2015-07-16 10:29 PM mollibtexan - 2015-07-16 11:23 PM She asked for help just trying to give her some suggestions that could help her. I don't come on here to fight over my opinion or justify it. I know how frustrating it can be at times. I rarely read what others even post just try to help the poster if I can. I never claim to know everything bc I don't.
I understand but I think this is a training issue. It needs to be addressed before throwing a tie down on the mare as a temporary fix. I agree 100% but she said the horse is broke and moves off leg pressure and looks like has been running a while. I have no idea why everyone is so against tools that will help aid your horse I being successful. The horse can't even see the first barrel bc he is counting the lights in the arena....maybe if the horse could see the barrel she might have a better chance of turning it correctly.
thank you! very well said. |
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A Barrel Of Monkeys
Posts: 12972
Location: Texas | Itsme - 2015-07-17 8:23 AM For the record, if that were my (daughters) horse it would still get more of a handle and NOT a tiedown.
Some horses, no matter how hard you try to "go back and put a handle" on them, will still run that way. Ya'll need to remember, barrel racing isn't dressage. |
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Soon to be outta here:) | Personally I have no problem putting tie down or a martingale or any sort of tool on to help her if she needs it in the long run. I'm not saying I would throw one on her now and go run her and expect it to fix her. Obviously there is a lot more that needs taken care of and worked on, but if down the road she is broke as broke can be and working a beautiful pattern slowly and still wants to work but gets her face up when she runs and a tie down helps-I will have no problem putting her in one.
I have gotten a ton of helpful and great advice on here, I'm amazed by the help I got and I appreciate everyone who gave me advice and encouragement and things to work on with her! I have a plan of what I will do with her, and hopefully eventually I will be able to post a 'look how far we have come' post!! |
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Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | Huge hugs! Just trying to help. Not trying to be a know it all by any means! I just felt called and and so I felt I needed to answer. |
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Veteran
Posts: 129
Location: Sanderson, TX | Just visited with a BB in person who said I should read this...al I can say is "seriously?" |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 372
| Mind Bender - 2015-07-17 4:10 PM
Just visited with a BB in person who said I should read this...al I can say is "seriously?"
how type with no thumbs?
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 Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| Itsme - 2015-07-17 8:23 AM
For the record, if that were my (daughters) horse it would still get more of a handle and NOT a tiedown.
For the record, have you trained winning horses like futurity and rodeo horses that were quiet and lasted?
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| bennie1 - 2015-07-17 4:31 PM
Itsme - 2015-07-17 8:23 AM
For the record, if that were my (daughters) horse it would still get more of a handle and NOT a tiedown.
For the record, have you trained winning horses like futurity and rodeo horses that were quiet and lasted?
Nope, never claimed I have and always post that I dont know much. I just what other trainers teach me and I was taught a tiedown doesnt solve a training issue and I still believe that. And yes, I would love for my daughter to learn from someone like Molli. |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | As ol' Lafayette from True Blood might say, "Is you a real trainer?" Lol |
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Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| Itsme - 2015-07-17 5:03 PM
bennie1 - 2015-07-17 4:31 PM
Itsme - 2015-07-17 8:23 AM
For the record, if that were my (daughters) horse it would still get more of a handle and NOT a tiedown.
For the record, have you trained winning horses like futurity and rodeo horses that were quiet and lasted?
Nope, never claimed I have and always post that I dont know much. I just what other trainers teach me and I was taught a tiedown doesnt solve a training issue and I still believe that. And yes, I would love for my daughter to learn from someone like Molli.
I don't know Molly personally, I'm just a 'fan'.
She showed she has class with her straightforward answers on this thread.
I think you, Itsme, like to come here and post semi outrageous statements to rile everyone on this board up for your own amusement.
I find that annoying.
I also think there is a difference between theoretical knowledge and practical application. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| bennie1 - 2015-07-17 5:21 PM
Itsme - 2015-07-17 5:03 PM
bennie1 - 2015-07-17 4:31 PM
Itsme - 2015-07-17 8:23 AM
For the record, if that were my (daughters) horse it would still get more of a handle and NOT a tiedown.
For the record, have you trained winning horses like futurity and rodeo horses that were quiet and lasted?
Nope, never claimed I have and always post that I dont know much. I just what other trainers teach me and I was taught a tiedown doesnt solve a training issue and I still believe that. And yes, I would love for my daughter to learn from someone like Molli.
I don't know Molly personally, I'm just a 'fan'.
She showed she has class with her straightforward answers on this thread.
I think you, Itsme, like to come here and post semi outrageous statements to rile everyone on this board up for your own amusement.
I find that annoying.
I also think there is a difference between theoretical knowledge and practical application.
ummm, cool? |
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Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | hotbear03 - 2015-07-16 7:24 PM I don't see the owner" ignoring" her horses shortcomings. She put it all out there for everyone to have a shot at her.
The ones making excuses are the ignorant,self righteous poster ( s) that try and cover for the callous comments made to a girl about a horse she's trying to work with.
A horse can rear and not be a " problem" horse. This is not a kid that owns the horse,it's a owner who is Trying to get help.
I'm no Pat Parelli wanna be,but I sure wouldn't tell this girl to send her horse to the " meat pen"
S.M.H at the callousness of the highflying poster.......it's not always black and white when you truly take ownership and responsibility for a life!
I agree Hotbear 03. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| In my opinion, one of the most common mistakes in barrel racing today, is pushing a horse too hard before they are confident in the pattern and with you. Take things slow, very slow until your horse proves they are confident enough to add speed. The basics have to be all there before you even start to think about speed. Build a strong foundation and build up. A horse should be able to yield his front and hindquarters, pick up correct leads, stop with ease, and listen to your body language all with no head tossing, or pulling at the bit before you even work him on the pattern at all!!
My advice for you is this..
1. Rule out pain, vet check, teeth, chiro, get him feeling good.
2. Send him to a trainer to get the basics polished up, all the things listed above.
3. When you do start him back on barrels, if you do, take it slow!! It might take a year of exhibition lope throughs before you're both confident enough to run. Get someone who is experienced to help you with your riding as well so you will both be ready!
Best of Luck to you both! :)
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-07-16 9:22 PM
hotbear03 - 2015-07-16 8:24 PM
I don't see the owner" ignoring" her horses shortcomings. She put it all out there for everyone to have a shot at her.
The ones making excuses are the ignorant,self righteous poster ( s) that try and cover for the callous comments made to a girl about a horse she's trying to work with.
A horse can rear and not be a " problem" horse. This is not a kid that owns the horse,it's a owner who is Trying to get help.
I'm no Pat Parelli wanna be,but I sure wouldn't tell this girl to send her horse to the " meat pen"
S.M.H at the callousness of the highflying poster.......it's not always black and white when you truly take ownership and responsibility for a life!
I'm not the only one who thinks it or that has said it. So don't play it off as I am. We just aren't blowing smoke either. By ignoring the rearing, which she did, she told that horse that she didn't do anything wrong and that by being stupid, she gets to run. Anyone with a brain can see this is just going to get worse with that outlook. She's made excuses for the behavior, she isn't making the horse be accountable. By not making the horse be accountable, she will be ruined sooner than later.
Any horse that rears does have a problem. Rearing in itself is a problem. One that either needs trained out of them or put up with by people stupider than me, because I won't ride one who makes a habit of it. The first time they rear, you set a precedent with that horse on how you respond. She told that horse, ok you're in charge. Bad response that is going to lead to more problems later.
I may sound harsh, but I just don't want her next post to be 'Severely injured after horse flips over' or worse, see her name in remembrance when she dies from it. Rearing is NOT a joke, sorry if I just take it a bit more seriously than others.
I owned a very nice horse who was an excellent athlete and very forgiving of my shortcomings. He just passed away last February. He used to rear before going in the alley...Not usually real high, but high enough. He would get anxious, and eager to run, because he loved his job. My reaction was to try and take ahold of him, so basically I made him clausterphobic and he had nowhere else to go but up. It was his way of teaching me to use more finesse, and less muscle. I never once felt in danger. That gelding saved my sorry ass more times than I can remember. My point is he reared because of my poor handling.....thank God I had the sense to eventually figure it out. |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-07-16 9:22 PM
hotbear03 - 2015-07-16 8:24 PM
I don't see the owner" ignoring" her horses shortcomings. She put it all out there for everyone to have a shot at her.
The ones making excuses are the ignorant,self righteous poster ( s) that try and cover for the callous comments made to a girl about a horse she's trying to work with.
A horse can rear and not be a " problem" horse. This is not a kid that owns the horse,it's a owner who is Trying to get help.
I'm no Pat Parelli wanna be,but I sure wouldn't tell this girl to send her horse to the " meat pen"
S.M.H at the callousness of the highflying poster.......it's not always black and white when you truly take ownership and responsibility for a life!
I'm not the only one who thinks it or that has said it. So don't play it off as I am. We just aren't blowing smoke either. By ignoring the rearing, which she did, she told that horse that she didn't do anything wrong and that by being stupid, she gets to run. Anyone with a brain can see this is just going to get worse with that outlook. She's made excuses for the behavior, she isn't making the horse be accountable. By not making the horse be accountable, she will be ruined sooner than later.
Any horse that rears does have a problem. Rearing in itself is a problem. One that either needs trained out of them or put up with by people stupider than me, because I won't ride one who makes a habit of it. The first time they rear, you set a precedent with that horse on how you respond. She told that horse, ok you're in charge. Bad response that is going to lead to more problems later.
I may sound harsh, but I just don't want her next post to be 'Severely injured after horse flips over' or worse, see her name in remembrance when she dies from it. Rearing is NOT a joke, sorry if I just take it a bit more seriously than others.
Did I miss where she said it was a habit? I thought the OP said the rearing was new???? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| Bear - 2015-07-17 11:37 PM
FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-07-16 9:22 PM
hotbear03 - 2015-07-16 8:24 PM
I don't see the owner" ignoring" her horses shortcomings. She put it all out there for everyone to have a shot at her.
The ones making excuses are the ignorant,self righteous poster ( s) that try and cover for the callous comments made to a girl about a horse she's trying to work with.
A horse can rear and not be a " problem" horse. This is not a kid that owns the horse,it's a owner who is Trying to get help.
I'm no Pat Parelli wanna be,but I sure wouldn't tell this girl to send her horse to the " meat pen"
S.M.H at the callousness of the highflying poster.......it's not always black and white when you truly take ownership and responsibility for a life!
I'm not the only one who thinks it or that has said it. So don't play it off as I am. We just aren't blowing smoke either. By ignoring the rearing, which she did, she told that horse that she didn't do anything wrong and that by being stupid, she gets to run. Anyone with a brain can see this is just going to get worse with that outlook. She's made excuses for the behavior, she isn't making the horse be accountable. By not making the horse be accountable, she will be ruined sooner than later.
Any horse that rears does have a problem. Rearing in itself is a problem. One that either needs trained out of them or put up with by people stupider than me, because I won't ride one who makes a habit of it. The first time they rear, you set a precedent with that horse on how you respond. She told that horse, ok you're in charge. Bad response that is going to lead to more problems later.
I may sound harsh, but I just don't want her next post to be 'Severely injured after horse flips over' or worse, see her name in remembrance when she dies from it. Rearing is NOT a joke, sorry if I just take it a bit more seriously than others.
I owned a very nice horse who was an excellent athlete and very forgiving of my shortcomings. He just passed away last February. He used to rear before going in the alley... Not usually real high, but high enough. He would get anxious, and eager to run, because he loved his job. My reaction was to try and take ahold of him, so basically I made him clausterphobic and he had nowhere else to go but up. It was his way of teaching me to use more finesse, and less muscle. I never once felt in danger. That gelding saved my sorry ass more times than I can remember. My point is he reared because of my poor handling.....thank God I had the sense to eventually figure it out.
In that video, that horse got quite high. I've had a horse pop up when it felt annoyed, and that is one thing. That horse was past vertical, and almost fell backwards. That is DANGEROUS. It only takes one time for serious damage to happen. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-07-18 2:58 PM
Bear - 2015-07-17 11:37 PM
FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-07-16 9:22 PM
hotbear03 - 2015-07-16 8:24 PM
I don't see the owner" ignoring" her horses shortcomings. She put it all out there for everyone to have a shot at her.
The ones making excuses are the ignorant,self righteous poster ( s) that try and cover for the callous comments made to a girl about a horse she's trying to work with.
A horse can rear and not be a " problem" horse. This is not a kid that owns the horse,it's a owner who is Trying to get help.
I'm no Pat Parelli wanna be,but I sure wouldn't tell this girl to send her horse to the " meat pen"
S.M.H at the callousness of the highflying poster.......it's not always black and white when you truly take ownership and responsibility for a life!
I'm not the only one who thinks it or that has said it. So don't play it off as I am. We just aren't blowing smoke either. By ignoring the rearing, which she did, she told that horse that she didn't do anything wrong and that by being stupid, she gets to run. Anyone with a brain can see this is just going to get worse with that outlook. She's made excuses for the behavior, she isn't making the horse be accountable. By not making the horse be accountable, she will be ruined sooner than later.
Any horse that rears does have a problem. Rearing in itself is a problem. One that either needs trained out of them or put up with by people stupider than me, because I won't ride one who makes a habit of it. The first time they rear, you set a precedent with that horse on how you respond. She told that horse, ok you're in charge. Bad response that is going to lead to more problems later.
I may sound harsh, but I just don't want her next post to be 'Severely injured after horse flips over' or worse, see her name in remembrance when she dies from it. Rearing is NOT a joke, sorry if I just take it a bit more seriously than others.
I owned a very nice horse who was an excellent athlete and very forgiving of my shortcomings. He just passed away last February. He used to rear before going in the alley... Not usually real high, but high enough. He would get anxious, and eager to run, because he loved his job. My reaction was to try and take ahold of him, so basically I made him clausterphobic and he had nowhere else to go but up. It was his way of teaching me to use more finesse, and less muscle. I never once felt in danger. That gelding saved my sorry ass more times than I can remember. My point is he reared because of my poor handling.....thank God I had the sense to eventually figure it out.
In that video, that horse got quite high. I've had a horse pop up when it felt annoyed, and that is one thing. That horse was past vertical, and almost fell backwards. That is DANGEROUS. It only takes one time for serious damage to happen.
Haha you really wouldn't like one horse that came to me.
I had one who would rear up on a loose rein.
The reason he reared was he was blown up, never learned how to relax, couldn't stand still.
He was very smart, when you asked him to stand, he knew he couldn't go forward, or backwards, so he went up.
It took me 3 months to fix his problem.
Most horses are not the spawn of satan, and can be resolved, all it takes is knowledge, and patience, there are many people who can fix the problem so I don't see a reason to can a rearing horse. |
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Alright I'm desperate, I need help with my runs...UPDATE...apparently we rear now...? With video