hoofs_in_motion - 2015-07-07 3:30 PM I'd say if she doesn't want him, send him to someone that will give him a chance. I gave my gelding a chance, glad I did 

Zebra racer - 2015-07-07 3:22 PM

I have a friend who bought a $15k horse with a multitude of undisclosed health issues from a prominent barrel racer in her area. She did have a vet check but that is another story.
He bucks when he is fresh so he hasn't been any fun for her. She has tried to address his physical problems to give him a chance but now he has a soft tissue injury that isn't healing. Her plan was to get him sound and sell him as a bucker. With the soundness I don't think she can even sell him as anything. The vet said it could be 60 more days or a year. She has already had him up on stall rest for 60 days and no improvement. He is a colored up well bred horse but might as well be grade. He is not visibly lame to the average human. Should she try and give him away in hopes someone will give him a chance? Or take him to the killer sale and have no liability? What would you do? She is done.

MS2011 - 2015-07-07 3:39 PM


Depending on age and long term diagnosis - I'd put him down. I can live with that so much better than I can sending one to Mexico......or knowing that he has health issues and watching him get passed around and tormented.

GoMistyGo - 2015-07-07 5:49 PM


That...
Putting him down rather than sending him to Mexico. No horse deserves that.

ampratt - 2015-07-08 6:02 AM Give him to someone else if they want the challenge or put him down. It makes me sick when people choose a killer buyer over putting one down. No animal deserves that treatment and honestly I don't understand horse owners who think that's an option. That's my opinion and others are entitled to disagree.

Zebra racer - 2015-07-08 11:10 AM He is just cold backed and maybe now it appears he was sore so that may not have helped. She has had him a few years and only ran him 5 times each year at most. She is worried of liability. Today she is thinking euthanasia. I will share the messages I have received with her. Thanks for your input.

Zebra racer - 2015-07-08 11:10 AM He is just cold backed and maybe now it appears he was sore so that may not have helped. She has had him a few years and only ran him 5 times each year at most. She is worried of liability. Today she is thinking euthanasia. I will share the messages I have received with her. Thanks for your input.

Zebra racer - 2015-07-08 11:31 AM

I assure you, she can figure it out. She has invested a lot of money in vet bills to fix a POS horse IMO. Yes, she is very busy with her job and family and not dedicated to riding him everyday but that doesn't make her a bad owner or rider. She spends most of her horse time, doctoring or hand walking him or cleaning his stall. Prior to that she would be hurt from getting bucked off and couldn't ride a few weeks at a time. She turns him out and warms him up properly. He is just a POS, again, JMO. Price paid does not equate a good horse neither do papers or trainer. She learned a lesson. Look for more history of runs and videos or results to prove it. The horse was green and with a pro girl who held him together and made him look like a decent horse.

Zebra racer - 2015-07-08 11:31 AM I assure you, she can figure it out. She has invested a lot of money in vet bills to fix a POS horse IMO. Yes, she is very busy with her job and family and not dedicated to riding him everyday but that doesn't make her a bad owner or rider. She spends most of her horse time, doctoring or hand walking him or cleaning his stall. Prior to that she would be hurt from getting bucked off and couldn't ride a few weeks at a time. She turns him out and warms him up properly. He is just a POS, again, JMO. Price paid does not equate a good horse neither do papers or trainer. She learned a lesson. Look for more history of runs and videos or results to prove it. The horse was green and with a pro girl who held him together and made him look like a decent horse.

Zebra racer - 2015-07-08 11:31 AM I assure you, she can figure it out. She has invested a lot of money in vet bills to fix a POS horse IMO. Yes, she is very busy with her job and family and not dedicated to riding him everyday but that doesn't make her a bad owner or rider. She spends most of her horse time, doctoring or hand walking him or cleaning his stall. Prior to that she would be hurt from getting bucked off and couldn't ride a few weeks at a time. She turns him out and warms him up properly. He is just a POS, again, JMO. Price paid does not equate a good horse neither do papers or trainer. She learned a lesson. Look for more history of runs and videos or results to prove it. The horse was green and with a pro girl who held him together and made him look like a decent horse.

Zebra racer - 2015-07-07 4:22 PM

I have a friend who bought a $15k horse with a multitude of undisclosed health issues from a prominent barrel racer in her area. She did have a vet check but that is another story.
He bucks when he is fresh so he hasn't been any fun for her. She has tried to address his physical problems to give him a chance but now he has a soft tissue injury that isn't healing. Her plan was to get him sound and sell him as a bucker. With the soundness I don't think she can even sell him as anything. The vet said it could be 60 more days or a year. She has already had him up on stall rest for 60 days and no improvement. He is a colored up well bred horse but might as well be grade. He is not visibly lame to the average human. Should she try and give him away in hopes someone will give him a chance? Or take him to the killer sale and have no liability? What would you do? She is done.

rachellyn80 - 2015-07-08 1:15 PM

This conversation is exactly why I kept mine until I couldn't maintain his comfort and then put him down.  Everyone thinks they're more of an expert or more of a "cowgirl"....sometimes there's just nothing to be done. 

rachellyn80 - 2015-07-08 11:15 AM This conversation is exactly why I kept mine until I couldn't maintain his comfort and then put him down.  Everyone thinks they're more of an expert or more of a "cowgirl"....sometimes there's just nothing to be done. 

rachellyn80 - 2015-07-08 2:15 PM

This conversation is exactly why I kept mine until I couldn't maintain his comfort and then put him down.  Everyone thinks they're more of an expert or more of a "cowgirl"....sometimes there's just nothing to be done. 

ampratt - 2015-07-08 1:25 PM I admire you for what you did for your horse.

astreakinchic - 2015-07-08 1:32 PM In the past two years we've had clients buy 20k plus horses that had quirks or they would have been higher. Those quirks were caused by lameness problems that once the hammer was dropped on them really started to come out. They used local vets, never finding the problem, not having patience, not believing vets, not listening to ppl, etc...Long story short they wanted out of their horses. We ended up buying both and vetting them and giving turn out for a year. Sold both for a price profit. Time and vetting does wonders... Next example...Not directing it at your situation but had ppl that refused to thoroughly vet a nice horse because they say "she's just not trying" or "she's green" and "she keeps hurting herself"....they lost 15K on the horse and we've ended up getting her to sale for the current owner. Current owner vetted and gave time (like we advised originally!!) and this is a nice mare now that has clocked with the big dogs at AAY and Perry. Working with a good team of vets, be prepared to spend money like it doesn't matter, and have patience...

rachellyn80 - 2015-07-08 2:46 PM


I've fixed a few myself and thought that I had the one that I mentioned fixed several times...but, everytime he came apart it was worse.  My choice was based on the fact that he could fool you into thinking things were great...and then when they weren't he was ultimately dangerous.  I absolutely could have patched him up and sold him for plenty, but I couldn't stand the thought of him hurting someone who just didn't know any better.  

Once the necropsy was done, much of his behavior in his last couple of years was explained...and honestly as sick as I was reading the report, I was incredibly relieved that to learn that I had done the right thing in retiring him.  

Barnmom - 2015-07-08 10:55 AM


I understand horses can act out because they are hurting but honestly, I agree with you he is probably a POS.  I can't stand a horse to try and hurt me because they are sore. It doesn't sound like your friend is abusive to this horse yet he is willing to hurt her and that to me is a POS.  I would give him away with full disclosure, if he ends up on a truck to Mexico then that would be sad but worse things have happened to better horses.  Sorry she got screwed around.

rachellyn80 - 2015-07-08 1:46 PM


I've fixed a few myself and thought that I had the one that I mentioned fixed several times...but, everytime he came apart it was worse.  My choice was based on the fact that he could fool you into thinking things were great...and then when they weren't he was ultimately dangerous.  I absolutely could have patched him up and sold him for plenty, but I couldn't stand the thought of him hurting someone who just didn't know any better.  

Once the necropsy was done, much of his behavior in his last couple of years was explained...and honestly as sick as I was reading the report, I was incredibly relieved that to learn that I had done the right thing in retiring him.  

Southtxponygirl - 2015-07-08 1:04 PM

Did she buy this horse knowing he was green? 

Zebra racer - 2015-07-09 2:52 PM Um, NO. Thanks for the experts bashing her who I have clearly not been thorough enough with in describing the owner or the issue. The sometime lack of understanding on the board are why I have hesitated to participate more. When it is good it is great but often it is less than kind or understanding. She bought a horse without much background checking simply due to the fact that a big time winner in her area had him. She trusted them and learned a lesson. Just because they made a few good runs in their hometown arena she took their word as fact. He had breeding and color. But because she was vulnerable in that aspect does not mean she isn't capable of managing a horse. She knows her limitations on time, job, home life which is why she bought what she thought was a finished and safe horse. She has spent thousands- she is very educated in the care of a horse. She doesn't just go get an adjustment or throw some herbs at him, she uses ultrasound, Xray, lameness locator, scope. She used a top rated equine lameness vet. But she was not thorough in her vet check. But who checks a horses lungs or heart? Or if they don't flex sore, who pulls blood on a $15k horse from a icon? Maybe you do but she did not. Streakin, I will gladly give her your info and she would love a trade. I am even betting she will be kind enough to turn over all her xrays and findings and see what you can do with him. She has spent two years trying to get him sound and healthy just in hopes of 3d runs but sounds like you are much more fit for the task at hand. But she in honest enough to tell you his issues are not fixable only manageable overall pending this last lameness which may not heal ever. She is done. Stupid or over her head, no. Done, yes.

Zebra racer - 2015-07-08 11:31 AM I assure you, she can figure it out. She has invested a lot of money in vet bills to fix a POS horse IMO. Yes, she is very busy with her job and family and not dedicated to riding him everyday but that doesn't make her a bad owner or rider. She spends most of her horse time, doctoring or hand walking him or cleaning his stall. Prior to that she would be hurt from getting bucked off and couldn't ride a few weeks at a time. She turns him out and warms him up properly. He is just a POS, again, JMO. Price paid does not equate a good horse neither do papers or trainer. She learned a lesson. Look for more history of runs and videos or results to prove it. The horse was green and with a pro girl who held him together and made him look like a decent horse.

Zebra racer - 2015-07-09 2:52 PM


Um, NO.

Thanks for the experts bashing her who I have clearly not been thorough enough with in describing the owner or the issue. The sometime lack of understanding on the board are why I have hesitated to participate more. When it is good it is great but often it is less than kind or understanding.

She bought a horse without much background checking simply due to the fact that a big time winner in her area had him. She trusted them and learned a lesson. Just because they made a few good runs in their hometown arena she took their word as fact. He had breeding and color. But because she was vulnerable in that aspect does not mean she isn't capable of managing a horse. She knows her limitations on time, job, home life which is why she bought what she thought was a finished and safe horse. She has spent thousands- she is very educated in the care of a horse. She doesn't just go get an adjustment or throw some herbs at him, she uses ultrasound, Xray, lameness locator, scope. She used a top rated equine lameness vet. But she was not thorough in her vet check. But who checks a horses lungs or heart? Or if they don't flex sore, who pulls blood on a $15k horse from a icon? Maybe you do but she did not.

Streakin, I will gladly give her your info and she would love a trade. I am even betting she will be kind enough to turn over all her xrays and findings and see what you can do with him. She has spent two years trying to get him sound and healthy just in hopes of 3d runs but sounds like you are much more fit for the task at hand. But she in honest enough to tell you his issues are not fixable only manageable overall pending this last lameness which may not heal ever. She is done. Stupid or over her head, no. Done, yes.

hotpaints - 2015-07-09 2:06 PM

Off topic a little but this explains why I'm so reluctant to spend much $$ for lameness issues unless the problem is obvious : I have worked for and with many different vets. I have very little confidence in them for lameness diagnosis. I have more confidence in experienced trainers. Not just jockey type of trainers but trainers that can ride, train and really feel what is going on underneath them. I have always thought that a good lameness vet needs to be able to ride as well OR have an assistant that can hop on and ride then translate to the vet what they feel.

"Problem" horses may do a lot better with another rider/trainer that can tell if the problems are physical or attitude related.

Riding should be fun! I don't mind a challenge but I want to know that the horse is making positive progress. I want to want to go out and ride that particular horse. When I run into a wall with a horse, I usually will get help but I'm not willing to keep putting in the work when I dread riding that particular horse. I sell them at a loss and move on.

The OP's friend needs to sell at a loss and move on. Too much  has happened and I don't think she will ever have a positive, want to attitude for riding that horse.
 

Zebra racer - 2015-07-09 2:52 PM


Um, NO.

Thanks for the experts bashing her who I have clearly not been thorough enough with in describing the owner or the issue. The sometime lack of understanding on the board are why I have hesitated to participate more. When it is good it is great but often it is less than kind or understanding.

She bought a horse without much background checking simply due to the fact that a big time winner in her area had him. She trusted them and learned a lesson. Just because they made a few good runs in their hometown arena she took their word as fact. He had breeding and color. But because she was vulnerable in that aspect does not mean she isn't capable of managing a horse. She knows her limitations on time, job, home life which is why she bought what she thought was a finished and safe horse. She has spent thousands- she is very educated in the care of a horse. She doesn't just go get an adjustment or throw some herbs at him, she uses ultrasound, Xray, lameness locator, scope. She used a top rated equine lameness vet. But she was not thorough in her vet check. But who checks a horses lungs or heart? Or if they don't flex sore, who pulls blood on a $15k horse from a icon? Maybe you do but she did not.

Streakin, I will gladly give her your info and she would love a trade. I am even betting she will be kind enough to turn over all her xrays and findings and see what you can do with him. She has spent two years trying to get him sound and healthy just in hopes of 3d runs but sounds like you are much more fit for the task at hand. But she in honest enough to tell you his issues are not fixable only manageable overall pending this last lameness which may not heal ever. She is done. Stupid or over her head, no. Done, yes.

hoofs_in_motion - 2015-07-09 3:39 PM


CALM YOURSELF

Zebra racer - 2015-07-10 8:50 AM Sorry, I am calming myself, please forgive me. I feel my friend is a victim and I felt for a minute that some were calling her stupid and she is far from stupid. I have not bashed the seller. In fact I stuck up for the seller to my friend because I don't think the seller is smart enough to know all that was wrong with this horse but my friend thinks otherwise. She knows she learned an expensive lesson. I have not named the seller to all those who have messaged me wanting the horse for free or asking who to avoid. My friend is smart enough to know his bucking was likely from him not being ridden enough. Then she dedicated a solid 45 days to riding regularly and he still bucks so she goes to the vet. This is where it started to unravel. He is a plethora of a medical mess. She doesn't hate the horse, but I hate it for her.

komet. - 2015-07-10 3:47 PM I know someone that could sell this horse as perfectly sound..... as soon as she gets out of jail....

FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-07-10 12:31 PM

I really have been debating on whether or not to give my two cents, but here goes nothing.

If you have enough money burning a hole in your pocket to buy a 15k horse on someone's word, then cough up the money to get a GOOD care team in place, sounds like this horse is in pain and nothing is being done about it. You cannot call a horse a POS just because he is hurt and his owner rides him anyways. That's asking for trouble and whatever happens is on the owner, NOT the horse.


I have a POS horse, and he is going to live in my back pasture til the day he dies. Because I will NOT be liable when he kills someone (and he would if given the chance). He has a running total of 2 broken backs, 3 broken arms, and 2 severe concussions under his belt from the 'cowboys' who said there was nothing wrong with him. We spent over 10k on diagnosing him alone, and he was 16 when I got him. Turns out he's just a counterfeit bronc, he is in amazing health. It's a shame because this gelding could run a 20 second pole pattern in his sleep. Too bad it took 3 people, a blindfold and hobbles to get him in the arena. He's completely psychotic. He has calmed down quite a bit in the pasture these past 3 years of retirement, My brother actually rode him bareback in a halter at a walk for the first time in years the other day and he was ok, but that's about as far as we will push his good behavior, even at 26 years old. haha

ETA: I'm not calling her stupid or anything, I know how it feels when a horse is misrepresented. ^^That gelding was given to be as a dead head trail horse who they put their 5 year olds on....You see how well that went huh?

Zebra racer - 2015-07-13 9:19 AM


See that is where you are judgmental and wrong. She spent more than the average cost of a horse that was being run in his current condition. She knew to have a vet check, it just wasn't extensive enough. Have you ever done an echocardiogram? What all have you tested for on blood tests? Did you scope your last purchase? I would love proof of you bill to confirm.

She saw the sellers later at a big race and they told her she was babying the horse and to just run him. My bet is her team as you call it is likely better than most replying to this post.
The POS is my opinion, not hers. That is why she wants to do the right thing and disclose his condition and it is a long laundry list of issues that she has spent thousands on. She has bought several fixer uppers for $2500-$5000- she doesn't have money burning a hole in her pocket. She tried to upgrade her purchases and did a vet check.

You are better than I, I would not feed a counterfeit bronc, as you have called him, till his death, sounds like you might also have money burning a hole in your pocket?

She does not and that is why she most likely is putting him down next week. No liability and no commitment to a horse that has not done the job he was purchased to do. There is no emotional connection. She was just trying to repair him in hopes he would have a chance but it looks as if he wont. My bet is she could list him on here for $1000 and folks would line up in effort to fix him. Hell, several have sent me messages offering.

cheryl makofka - 2015-07-13 8:04 AM Personally I would be giving the horse to someone who thinks they could resolve the issues the horse has. I don't believe in euthanizing a horse who is young, and can live comfortably in a pasture. To me euthanizing a horse like this is abuse and is what PETA does. As from what you have said the horse isn't dangerous on the ground, and wasn't dangerous with the previous owners. This tells me it is her. It could be as simple as a personality conflict.

kwanatha - 2015-07-13 10:38 AM


so do you want to pension this horse? we have all heard of scams where they say they are going to take your unwanted horse and he will live a happy retirement then off to mexico he goes or wait sometimes they just patch them up and sell them to someone so the cycle continues. when  a horse has talent and training it is hard to find someone that will pension your horse for you, they all think they can be the one to fix him and then they make their buck. the only one suffereing here is the horse. It really depends on what his problems are, some things are just not fixable.

I can only pension the problems i create. so if i breed one, then i feel I owe it, if a horse gives me everything and I cripple it then I owe it, but i can't be expected to pay for years for every problem that someone else creates.
 

Zebra racer - 2015-07-13 10:19 AM


See that is where you are judgmental and wrong. She spent more than the average cost of a horse that was being run in his current condition. She knew to have a vet check, it just wasn't extensive enough. Have you ever done an echocardiogram? What all have you tested for on blood tests? Did you scope your last purchase? I would love proof of you bill to confirm.

She saw the sellers later at a big race and they told her she was babying the horse and to just run him. My bet is her team as you call it is likely better than most replying to this post.
The POS is my opinion, not hers. That is why she wants to do the right thing and disclose his condition and it is a long laundry list of issues that she has spent thousands on. She has bought several fixer uppers for $2500-$5000- she doesn't have money burning a hole in her pocket. She tried to upgrade her purchases and did a vet check.

You are better than I, I would not feed a counterfeit bronc, as you have called him, till his death, sounds like you might also have money burning a hole in your pocket?

She does not and that is why she most likely is putting him down next week. No liability and no commitment to a horse that has not done the job he was purchased to do. There is no emotional connection. She was just trying to repair him in hopes he would have a chance but it looks as if he wont. My bet is she could list him on here for $1000 and folks would line up in effort to fix him. Hell, several have sent me messages offering.

FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-07-13 12:02 PM Actually yes, we are very well off in the money area. I could pay 100k for a finished rodeo horse who can win everywhere and it wouldn't put a dent in the bank account. Instead, I buy green or not broke and train up SMART barrel horses. I have found that I train them myself, because it is near impossible to find people who trains them to my liking. "That is why she most likely is putting him down next week. No liability and no commitment to a horse that has not done the job he was purchased to do. There is no emotional connection." You sound like a heartless ***** to be honest. You make a commitment to a horse the second he becomes yours. I would suggest that you guys get in a new line of business if that's how you feel about your partners. I'm so ****ed off at that comment that I just don't even know what to say. I hope your friend doesn't think that way, because that horse deserves better than you. I'm done with this.