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| This will be the first time I soak my oats! LOL My vet says horses cant process whole oats but I know with good teeth they can just fine, ANyway, a lot of race trainers soak and even cook them.. How does everyone do it? 12 hours cold water? |
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Extreme Veteran
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| I've never soaked plain oats. I have had to soak feed that sad pelleted mixed with oats and I did that for 12 hours and I didn't see a change in the oats so I'm not sure what the benefit of it would be. |
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | To cook them, they use a heater element and place it down in the bucket of oats. Takes a while to cook them, but dang they smell good!
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 Elite Veteran
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Location: West Texas | Your vet is for lack of a better word, wrong. I am unaware of any benefit to soaking oats.
I have found vets, over the years, to not be the best source of feeding and nutrition advice. |
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| total performance - 2015-07-08 8:11 AM
To cook them, they use a heater element and place it down in the bucket of oats. Takes a while to cook them, but dang they smell good!
Funny you say that!!! I always Wet down my feed with water before I give it. Mainly for my horse with breathing issues. But in winter I use warm water. My colt off the track LOVESSSSSSS that. I bet its what he got at the track... |
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  Whack and Roll
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Location: NE Texas | As long as the hindgut is working properly to digest whole oats and retrieve the full nutriotional value, then it should be fine. If the hind gut is not working effieciently, the horse will not absorb the nutrients and get the full value of anything you're feeding, oats or otherwise. Address the inflammation in the hindgut and get it working properly and you won't have any trouble. No need to soak or cook, but like total performance said, they sure do smell good!
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Expert
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| My thoughts exactly. And I bet it has a lot to do with teeth as well. If horses are chewing with good teeth then you have cracked oats by the time it reaches the stomach to!
ANyone want to comment on the whole Oat/Ulcer controversy? SOme say whole oats are excellent for the hind gut, and increase saliva so awesome for gastric ulcers. And others say its the worst thing you can give a horse. lol There has got to be an answer. Both opinions from expertly licensed Equine nutritionists. Which scares me a little because doctors for humans are probably the same way. lol |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | The more processed they are the less nutrional value to them .
I add warm water to my feed to add fluid to gut.. i never soak or anything.. with beet pulp Ill add water and sit for a few minutes but thats it. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Since horses can founder off of oats alone, moderation is key.
Neighbours years ago had horses get into the grain bin, one needed to be euthanized as the founder was so severe.
As for the oat controversy, it all depends on what philosophy you believe.
The philosophy I believe
Is oats are a fermentable grain, in the hind gut where the fermenting takes place, this causes the hind gut to become more acidic killing all the normal bacteria also causing the formations of ulcers (this is long term usage and high amounts).
With the shift in ph in the hind gut the horse releases endotoxins into the blood stream which causes inflammation in the body especially in the feet causing founder in the rare occasions.
On a side note and I don't know how to explain it but I have one horse who will eat her pellets at home, but when hauling she will go off of her pellets and only eat oats, she has been treated for ulcers numerous times, and is on ulcer meds the day before, the day of, and day after. |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | cheryl makofka - 2015-07-08 10:48 AM Since horses can founder off of oats alone, moderation is key. Neighbours years ago had horses get into the grain bin, one needed to be euthanized as the founder was so severe. As for the oat controversy, it all depends on what philosophy you believe. The philosophy I believe Is oats are a fermentable grain, in the hind gut where the fermenting takes place, this causes the hind gut to become more acidic killing all the normal bacteria also causing the formations of ulcers (this is long term usage and high amounts). With the shift in ph in the hind gut the horse releases endotoxins into the blood stream which causes inflammation in the body especially in the feet causing founder in the rare occasions. On a side note and I don't know how to explain it but I have one horse who will eat her pellets at home, but when hauling she will go off of her pellets and only eat oats, she has been treated for ulcers numerous times, and is on ulcer meds the day before, the day of, and day after.
This vet has helped me get a horse right that 2 other vets had advised may not ever compete again. Through following his direction I have a horse who is finally healthy and no longer on any type of ulcer treatment through following his suggestion. Prior to this, even while on long term doeses of Omeprazole, Ranitidine, or Gastroplus, he was very uncomfortable and irritable even when simply touched through the hind stomach area (like where a back cinch goes). I have also dealt with very serious respiratory issues that were non responsive to Ventipulmin, Dexamethasone, Prednisone, or even inhaled steroids. Now after following Dr. Schell's program, this same horse is free of any medications, is back to competing with no cough or respiratory issues, and he curls his lip and moves over to me for me to scratch him in the same area he used to try to kick me for touching. The respiratory success is awesome, but the other changes in this horse as far as attitude and overall comfort level is what has been truly amazing! The images below show the physical changes to this colt in 30 days....the respiratory success is the bonus! That's all I need to know, and he's performed the research to back up this theory.
https://nouvelleresearch.com/index.php/articles/385-leaky-gut-syndrome-health-soundness
If my discussion with him regarding what I was currently feeding, here is his response: The feed is not bad, but there are some concerns from my perspective. One of the biggest things that I look for is whole food supplying the nutrient load. This means that if we are looking for magnesium, it is coming from food sources (as an example). If you look at the list of ingredients, towards the mid section, you will see all of the artificial ingredients that are added...magnesium, zinc, calcium, vitamin E...the list goes on and on. This means that the zinc or magnesium your horse is getting is in the artificial form, not natural or whole food. Second, we have a lot of probiotics added to the feed. Saccharomyces is okay, which is brewer's yeast, but then we have others such as lactobacillus being added. The lactobacillus is one species we are seeing overgrown in our research project and in many other horses with clinical problems tying back to the gut. I don't like these probiotics, as I feel they are possibly contributing, but then again, I am biased due to research.
And lastly, in regard to high grain diets, stress, and ulcer treatments, this is what the research is showing in his clinic: We did that study this past spring evaluating fecal bacterial levels in horses, mainly focusing on easy keepers etc, then making a connection with inflammation and associated conditions. I requested some samples from actively racing TB's and received about 9, which were not part of the study. I evaluated them and the bacterial counts were actually higher than the easy keepers, but the real interesting thing was that the overall bacterial population was reduced compared to normal. When you factor in the stress, commercial diets, ulcer meds and NSAIDs that these guys are on, it all clicks. The diet and stress contribute to the overgrowth of bad bacteria, and the ongoing use of the ulcer meds actually changes the pH to the point where normal good bacteria have a hard time thriving. Throw into this that in human research, the ulcer meds are connected with decreased nutrient absorption. When you combine that with inflammation, leaky gut and poor nutrient assimilation...it is a recipe for disaster. Bone fractures, tendon injuries...all tied into poor magnesium, calcium absorption and inflammation. EIPH linked back to inflammation and acidic body pH, linked back to the gut.
Edited by Herbie 2015-07-08 11:09 AM
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Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs |  |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | I've learned more in the last six months than I've learned in a lifetime of owning horses. Vets don't typically know feed...many of them don't even understand the digestive process. They sure don't know the feed manufacturing process!
Here's a good article: http://en.engormix.com/MA-equines/nutrition/articles/horse-feeding-myths-misconceptions-t1132/141-p0.htm |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Normal horses do process oats.. your vet is wrong .to the original question.. |
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Expert
Posts: 5293
| THanks for all of the great information!!!! Its amazing how little vets get in way of nutrition and feeding. lol You would think it would be basic. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Herbie, I like the way your vet thinks! |
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | I would be worried about it rotting.....i feed whole oats......and i was reading my old horse herbal book the other day and it made the statement that whole oats actually helps ulcers...lol...first thing i thought boy oh boy the peeps on bhw would have a heart attack....m |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Bibliafarm - 2015-07-08 11:44 AM
The more processed they are the less nutrional value to them .
I add warm water to my feed to add fluid to gut.. i never soak or anything.. with beet pulp Ill add water and sit for a few minutes but thats it.
^^^ this
We feed whole oats and alfalfa if one is lacking or comes in for training with less body score than we like we will add fat in the form of flax, rice bran, or soy meal.
Ideally I would love to have a mill to run them through and bust them up but that is very time consuming for as many as we have in the barn. I know race trainers that do this and they have a full time hand that takes care of this job. |
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Expert
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| mruggles - 2015-07-08 1:08 PM
I would be worried about it rotting.....i feed whole oats......and i was reading my old horse herbal book the other day and it made the statement that whole oats actually helps ulcers...lol...first thing i thought boy oh boy the peeps on bhw would have a heart attack....m
I have talked to vets that say this is true and many big time race trainers believe this info as well. The main ingredient in succeed is actually oat oil and oat flour. It is believed by some nutritionalists and vets that it is one of the few things that can actually heal hind gut ulcers.
When all the cattle med scares started happening we switched to oats and alfalfa and never looked back. Improvement was seen in every single one of our horses within 3 weeks no joke. Top line improvement, hair coat, hoof growth, and two ulcer management horses seemed to improve more.
I should also add the internal med expert at Rood and Riddle recommends oats and alfalfa over any other feed. Natural as possible.
Edited by astreakinchic 2015-07-08 12:24 PM
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| cheryl makofka - 2015-07-08 11:48 AM
Since horses can founder off of oats alone, moderation is key.
Neighbours years ago had horses get into the grain bin, one needed to be euthanized as the founder was so severe.
As for the oat controversy, it all depends on what philosophy you believe.
The philosophy I believe
Is oats are a fermentable grain, in the hind gut where the fermenting takes place, this causes the hind gut to become more acidic killing all the normal bacteria also causing the formations of ulcers (this is long term usage and high amounts).
With the shift in ph in the hind gut the horse releases endotoxins into the blood stream which causes inflammation in the body especially in the feet causing founder in the rare occasions.
On a side note and I don't know how to explain it but I have one horse who will eat her pellets at home, but when hauling she will go off of her pellets and only eat oats, she has been treated for ulcers numerous times, and is on ulcer meds the day before, the day of, and day after.
Under stress she probably got relief from the oats. They probably helped with whatever hind gut issues she was having...just a thought.
One more thing I wanna add is that be very careful your source of oats. Make sure the mill your getting them from is NOT running them through the mill to "rinse" the mill out after mixing cattle meds!! |
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 Shoot Yeah
Posts: 4273
Location: Where you need a paddle... Oregon! | mruggles - 2015-07-08 12:08 PM
I would be worried about it rotting.....i feed whole oats......and i was reading my old horse herbal book the other day and it made the statement that whole oats actually helps ulcers...lol...first thing i thought boy oh boy the peeps on bhw would have a heart attack....m
Interesting.
I posted the question on here months ago about oats and ulcers and it dropped like a lead balloon. lol. I went ahead and switched her and I added Renew Gold also. She looks good. I haven't been competing so I'm not sure how she would have done under stress.
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | astreakinchic - 2015-07-08 12:26 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-07-08 11:48 AM
Since horses can founder off of oats alone, moderation is key.
Neighbours years ago had horses get into the grain bin, one needed to be euthanized as the founder was so severe.
As for the oat controversy, it all depends on what philosophy you believe.
The philosophy I believe
Is oats are a fermentable grain, in the hind gut where the fermenting takes place, this causes the hind gut to become more acidic killing all the normal bacteria also causing the formations of ulcers (this is long term usage and high amounts).
With the shift in ph in the hind gut the horse releases endotoxins into the blood stream which causes inflammation in the body especially in the feet causing founder in the rare occasions.
On a side note and I don't know how to explain it but I have one horse who will eat her pellets at home, but when hauling she will go off of her pellets and only eat oats, she has been treated for ulcers numerous times, and is on ulcer meds the day before, the day of, and day after.
Under stress she probably got relief from the oats. They probably helped with whatever hind gut issues she was having...just a thought.
One more thing I wanna add is that be very careful your source of oats. Make sure the mill your getting them from is NOT running them through the mill to "rinse" the mill out after mixing cattle meds!!
Cheryl is right here. If you have been to one of my clinics you have heard me say that grain based concentrates, including oats, in the feeding program can be of benefit right up to the point that they overwhelm the horses ability to break them down in the small intestine. From that point on they become a roadblock to digestive efficiency through the rest of the system. Oats that reach the hind gut undigested will alter the ph and effect the ability of the hind gut to digest roughage. It will also negatively effect the immune function of the horse. If you are going to feed grain concentrates in your program keep the amount under two pounds per feeding. If you need to feed higher levels you need to feed more feedings per day to keep that grain inclusion under two pounds per feeding. This will allow the horse to produce enough enzyme to break the starches and sugars down where that process is most effective, in the small intestine. |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | We dont' soak our whole oats.
I too have never learned as much as I have been forced to this year about feed. I will be changing feed as soon as feed our last two tons of whole oats. And hopefully, will never have to again. I am too old for this. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| astreakinchic - 2015-07-08 12:26 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-07-08 11:48 AM
Since horses can founder off of oats alone, moderation is key.
Neighbours years ago had horses get into the grain bin, one needed to be euthanized as the founder was so severe.
As for the oat controversy, it all depends on what philosophy you believe.
The philosophy I believe
Is oats are a fermentable grain, in the hind gut where the fermenting takes place, this causes the hind gut to become more acidic killing all the normal bacteria also causing the formations of ulcers (this is long term usage and high amounts).
With the shift in ph in the hind gut the horse releases endotoxins into the blood stream which causes inflammation in the body especially in the feet causing founder in the rare occasions.
On a side note and I don't know how to explain it but I have one horse who will eat her pellets at home, but when hauling she will go off of her pellets and only eat oats, she has been treated for ulcers numerous times, and is on ulcer meds the day before, the day of, and day after.
Under stress she probably got relief from the oats. They probably helped with whatever hind gut issues she was having...just a thought.
One more thing I wanna add is that be very careful your source of oats. Make sure the mill your getting them from is NOT running them through the mill to "rinse" the mill out after mixing cattle meds!!
Or it is her comfort food, as chocolate is mine, lol
It's not good for me, but it doesn't stop me from eating it when I am upset.
All the lecturers I have listened to, not one has said whole oats is good for a horse with digestive issues.
All the lecturers have said erradicate NSC, and feed more fat to resolve hind gut issues.
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| cheryl makofka - 2015-07-08 2:31 PM
astreakinchic - 2015-07-08 12:26 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-07-08 11:48 AM
Since horses can founder off of oats alone, moderation is key.
Neighbours years ago had horses get into the grain bin, one needed to be euthanized as the founder was so severe.
As for the oat controversy, it all depends on what philosophy you believe.
The philosophy I believe
Is oats are a fermentable grain, in the hind gut where the fermenting takes place, this causes the hind gut to become more acidic killing all the normal bacteria also causing the formations of ulcers (this is long term usage and high amounts).
With the shift in ph in the hind gut the horse releases endotoxins into the blood stream which causes inflammation in the body especially in the feet causing founder in the rare occasions.
On a side note and I don't know how to explain it but I have one horse who will eat her pellets at home, but when hauling she will go off of her pellets and only eat oats, she has been treated for ulcers numerous times, and is on ulcer meds the day before, the day of, and day after.
Under stress she probably got relief from the oats. They probably helped with whatever hind gut issues she was having...just a thought.
One more thing I wanna add is that be very careful your source of oats. Make sure the mill your getting them from is NOT running them through the mill to "rinse" the mill out after mixing cattle meds!!
Or it is her comfort food, as chocolate is mine, lol
It's not good for me, but it doesn't stop me from eating it when I am upset.
All the lecturers I have listened to, not one has said whole oats is good for a horse with digestive issues.
All the lecturers have said erradicate NSC, and feed more fat to resolve hind gut issues.
LOL could be! Mtn dew is my comfort and I share with my gelding...thats sure not good for his stomach i bet but he loves it! lol
I feel like most nutritionists are biased :-/
I'm happy with our change and we've actually scoped two ulcer horses since starting it and they looked better than when they were on commercial feeds.
Mainly been using R&R for vetting and most of their client base feeds oats and alfalfa only, its what they recommend, so we made the jump lol |
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| Oats & Alfalfa here.... will never buy processed feeds again  |
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 Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | What are thoughts on sprouting oats and other grains, I use sprouted flours exclusively for my own consumption and when I get a good deal on whole grains I sprout them for my pigs so they can digest them easier. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Years ago...Bob from THE had sent me an article about leaky gut. It seems we have caused many of the problems we see in horses today.
This is an excerpt from the article that Herbie posted and pretty much sums it up with our horses having so many gastro problems that we didn't see years ago.
Potential Contributors:
Excess carbohydrate intake is one primary factors connected with leaky gut syndrome, with a secondary shift in the bacterial population. Are there other causes? The answer is yes as there are many. Stress and processed feeds/food are also known culprits, as may be genetics.
Stress is a huge player in gastrointestinal problems in the horse, pet and humans. We all know what happens to our gut when we are overly stressed or nervous. Sometimes it is not so pleasant, but the connection is real. Stress results in neurological changes to the gastrointestinal tract and also results in the over production of cortisol, which has it's direct impact on inflammation and health.
Processed foods have also been the subject of some research papers, focusing on what is termed 'advanced glycation end products' or AGE's, which are byproducts of certain sugars. In some foods, due to processing and handling, the AGE potential is markedly increased due to heat application or even through other additives placed within the food. Even with cooking of foods, we have a different range of AGE's dependent on the handling. Frying and broiling tend to produce higher levels of AGE's, while roasting and boiling tend to produce less. The implications in the equine world are yet to be determined. The overall problem is that AGE's in high levels, tend to elicit and inflammatory response within the gut and may contribute to leaky gut syndrome and even systemic inflammatory problems.
Other factors to consider when discussing processed foods is the high use of additives, coloring agents, preservatives and even artificial sweeteners...all of which may be contributors.
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| equussynergy - 2015-07-08 2:42 PM
What are thoughts on sprouting oats and other grains, I use sprouted flours exclusively for my own consumption and when I get a good deal on whole grains I sprout them for my pigs so they can digest them easier.
I think sprouting oats has a higher sugar content then mature oats, this is why it would be easier to digest, more nonstructural carbohydrates |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 912
Location: Alabama | Herbie - 2015-07-08 10:53 AM
cheryl makofka - 2015-07-08 10:48 AM Since horses can founder off of oats alone, moderation is key. Neighbours years ago had horses get into the grain bin, one needed to be euthanized as the founder was so severe. As for the oat controversy, it all depends on what philosophy you believe. The philosophy I believe Is oats are a fermentable grain, in the hind gut where the fermenting takes place, this causes the hind gut to become more acidic killing all the normal bacteria also causing the formations of ulcers (this is long term usage and high amounts). With the shift in ph in the hind gut the horse releases endotoxins into the blood stream which causes inflammation in the body especially in the feet causing founder in the rare occasions. On a side note and I don't know how to explain it but I have one horse who will eat her pellets at home, but when hauling she will go off of her pellets and only eat oats, she has been treated for ulcers numerous times, and is on ulcer meds the day before, the day of, and day after. This vet has helped me get a horse right that 2 other vets had advised may not ever compete again. Through following his direction I have a horse who is finally healthy and no longer on any type of ulcer treatment through following his suggestion. Prior to this, even while on long term doeses of Omeprazole, Ranitidine, or Gastroplus, he was very uncomfortable and irritable even when simply touched through the hind stomach area (like where a back cinch goes ). I have also dealt with very serious respiratory issues that were non responsive to Ventipulmin, Dexamethasone, Prednisone, or even inhaled steroids. Now after following Dr. Schell's program, this same horse is free of any medications, is back to competing with no cough or respiratory issues, and he curls his lip and moves over to me for me to scratch him in the same area he used to try to kick me for touching. The respiratory success is awesome, but the other changes in this horse as far as attitude and overall comfort level is what has been truly amazing! The images below show the physical changes to this colt in 30 days....the respiratory success is the bonus! That's all I need to know, and he's performed the research to back up this theory. https://nouvelleresearch.com/index.php/articles/385-leaky-gut-syndrome-health-soundnessIf my discussion with him regarding what I was currently feeding, here is his response: The feed is not bad, but there are some concerns from my perspective. One of the biggest things that I look for is whole food supplying the nutrient load. This means that if we are looking for magnesium, it is coming from food sources (as an example ). If you look at the list of ingredients, towards the mid section, you will see all of the artificial ingredients that are added...magnesium, zinc, calcium, vitamin E...the list goes on and on. This means that the zinc or magnesium your horse is getting is in the artificial form, not natural or whole food. Second, we have a lot of probiotics added to the feed. Saccharomyces is okay, which is brewer's yeast, but then we have others such as lactobacillus being added. The lactobacillus is one species we are seeing overgrown in our research project and in many other horses with clinical problems tying back to the gut. I don't like these probiotics, as I feel they are possibly contributing, but then again, I am biased due to research. And lastly, in regard to high grain diets, stress, and ulcer treatments, this is what the research is showing in his clinic: We did that study this past spring evaluating fecal bacterial levels in horses, mainly focusing on easy keepers etc, then making a connection with inflammation and associated conditions. I requested some samples from actively racing TB's and received about 9, which were not part of the study. I evaluated them and the bacterial counts were actually higher than the easy keepers, but the real interesting thing was that the overall bacterial population was reduced compared to normal. When you factor in the stress, commercial diets, ulcer meds and NSAIDs that these guys are on, it all clicks. The diet and stress contribute to the overgrowth of bad bacteria, and the ongoing use of the ulcer meds actually changes the pH to the point where normal good bacteria have a hard time thriving. Throw into this that in human research, the ulcer meds are connected with decreased nutrient absorption. When you combine that with inflammation, leaky gut and poor nutrient assimilation...it is a recipe for disaster. Bone fractures, tendon injuries...all tied into poor magnesium, calcium absorption and inflammation. EIPH linked back to inflammation and acidic body pH, linked back to the gut.
So Herbie what are you feeding to have such great results and to address the hind gut issues? |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | Sockittoemred, in dealing with the respiratory issues and my horse being on so many supplements and medications to try to combat them, I took him off of literally everything and started researching. The vets had exhausted all options and I had tried literally everything out there to try to manage his breathing issues, or so I thought. This horse was on 8cc of Ventipulmin a day and still couldn't take a deep enough breath to even cough and panted like a dog to try and get any air. I started him on 30cc of French's mustard once daily per the advice of a lady who is an "outside the box" thinker and I did see a very slight improvement in him. I googled the what was in the French's mustard that could be giving him releif and came up with turmeric/curcurmin and started researching there. In discussing this with another BB, canchasr1, she told me about her mom and aunt taking Curcurmin supplements for some issues they were dealing with and even cured a dog with really bad allergies, so I started researching the benefits of feeding curcurmin in horses and found some pretty interesting results for both humans and horses and then came across the Nouvelle Research website and started reading all of the information on the "Articles" page. Everything I read made complete sense to me, not from an equine standpoint, but from a general health stand point. There are documented studies on the benefits of curcurmin in cancer patients and other chronic cases of inflammation.
Once i'd educated myself I contacted Dr. Schell and consulted with him back and forth for about 2 weeks before I finally ordered the product. At this time my horse was on Bluebonnet Omegaforce Intensify and coastal hay and no supplements. He finally convinced me to try the product through his explanation of why my horse was not responsive to the NSAIDS, steroids, and narcotics and what exactly I was dealing with. He said if I couldn't get him right to send him to him and he would, but that he guaranteed i'd see a big improvement in 14 days. Now keep in mind, I bought the product to specifically help control the respiratory issues, that's it. I had no expectations of anything beyond that....I just wanted my horse to be able to breathe well enough to be comfortable in the pasture at the very least. I honestly wasn't sure if we'd ever get him back to being able to compete, but boy was I wrong. In 14 days I was able to start lightly exercising him in the roundpen at a jog and I documented his progress daily as to his cough, etc. In that time he really started looking like a different horse. His eye got bright again, he started nickering again and I could tell he just had relief. By the end of 14 days he was coughing once, maybe twice, during a 10 minute exercise session. After 30 days I had no cough whatsoever and had a completely different horse and I started back riding him, which is when I began to notice the other changes in him.
This horse has always been pretty temperamental and very senstive even when just brushing him.....like his skin would twitch and he just never liked it. Also when I would rinse him off and sweat scrape him, he would always back his ears when I got to his lower back and belly and sometimes would flinch or raise a back foot up as a warning. He stayed a bit sore through his lower back and one of the vets I took him to even mentioned kissing spine at one point. All of that soreness is gone through his body, nor is he flinchy or twitchy to brush. In fact, now when I sweat scrape him he's moving over to me like it feels good. He wants me to scrath his belly and his back now as well. He went from a horse who was "****y" 99% of the time (even before he got so sick) to a horse who has his ears up and is happy to be messed with. He used to walk away from me in the pasture when I went out to catch him....i'd carry treats in my pocket to entice him to let me catch him. Now when I get home he can be in the back of my pasture and I call his name and he comes running like a dog....literally....and slides to a stop right in front of me. He's excited to go to work now. Through the process I changed him over to whole oats and alfalfa, per Dr. Schell's advice, and will continue that program, as the success I have had using the Cur-Ost product and trusting Dr. Schell and his research has been the best thing I have ever done for this horse or any horse. Has it been expensive, yes, but worth every single penny i've spent to have this horse back healthy.
I know I sound like a walking advertisement or info-mercial, but I have truly tried everything out there at one point or another on this horse, and he was on several products that had worked in the past when he got so sick, which i'm happy to share via pm. I've owned him since he was a weanling and while through the years I have found a few things that put a band-aid on the respiratory issues, i've never had anywhere near the level of success in not only treating them, but treating my horse's overall health, soundness and well being.
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Herbie, do you have any other horses on this supplement? Do you feed all your horses oats and alfalfa and do you feed any grass hay? |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | GLP - 2015-07-09 9:30 AM Herbie, do you have any other horses on this supplement? Do you feed all your horses oats and alfalfa and do you feed any grass hay?
Not yet, we just ordered the Replenish for another 5 YO we just got in; should receive the package today or tomorrow. Once I get my colt backed down to just the Total Support and the Adapt & Calm, I will be putting my 2 YO on the Replenish as well. Right now with him on the Total Support, Immune Support, and Adapt & Calm for another 30 days, I can't afford to put my 2 YO on it. We're not treating any specific conditions with the new gelding or the 2 YO, so they don't need the Total Support just yet. All of my horses are now on whole oats and alfalfa and coastal once daily, they alternate going out on pasture the other half of the day. |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | Bottom line, I would encourage anyone to research the benefits of curcurmin supplementation in humans and horses. I didn't begin this program based solely on what Dr. Schell told me. I did my own research and found that the benefits and studies are pretty remarkable. Based on the fact that curcurmin has been found to have such huge benefits on everything from respiratory issues, to digestive issues, to reducing cancer cells, I decided to try his product almost as a last resort. Dr. Schell himself is a cancer survivor, which is how he came to these formulations....it started with treating himself. I literally read every article on the "Articles" page on the Nouvelle Research website, and every single thing he reports makes sense to me and is backed by research, not just a marketing ploy. There is a better way and I believe this to be it. I've also read any and every article I could find online from a reliable sources regarding curcurmin and mushroom supplementation just to almost double confirm what Dr. Schell's research was showing. I'm so glad the French's Mustard and canchasr1 began the discussion. It has truly been a blessing! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Herbie, good information. It sounds like you might really like Omnis Complete Performance cubes by Danco Forage.... |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | Maybe! I don't have facebook and can't find much online. This same horse choked pretty bad last year on alfalfa pellets, but i've read that rachellyn80 has no problem on her seniors who don't have any teeth, so might be ok. I'd probably still soak to be on the safe side. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Thanks Herbie! I have contacted Nouvelle. I am soo tired of trying to figure out a feeding program. |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | Believe me, I completely understand GLP. I have spent so much money on vets and trying this and that for this particular horse and had truly given up. Since this working for him I have started taking a table spoon of the mustard twice a day and my allergies have also been way better. I think I may have had to take a dozen allergy pills this year total. I typically can't function without Claritin D every single day from April - October at least. LOL I admit, my horses get all the good stuff.....or this particular horse I should say. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Alfalfa Pellets are the worst for choke, been there before. It is strongly advised not to soak Omnis cubes as they are as safe for choke as any feed. Several choke prone horses are eating them and none have any problems now! |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | Herbie - 2015-07-09 10:30 AM Maybe! I don't have facebook and can't find much online. This same horse choked pretty bad last year on alfalfa pellets, but i've read that rachellyn80 has no problem on her seniors who don't have any teeth, so might be ok. I'd probably still soak to be on the safe side.
You'll just have to see these cubes to understand why you don't need to soak them. They're so soft it would just turn into a big mess. It's hard to describe, but they're like tiny compressed hay bales and you rarely see more than two or three "flakes" stuck together. They are nothing like traditional alfalfa cubes in any way. Very little binder is used so there's not even that weird baked shiny look to them. |
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Expert
Posts: 5293
| Can you get the cubes out here in CA? ANd if so would you have to buy a truck load or something? Thats my only concern. ALso, once cubes are gone do you leave grass hay for them to munch on 24/7? |
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 Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| rachellyn80 - 2015-07-09 10:53 AM
Herbie - 2015-07-09 10:30 AM Maybe! I don't have facebook and can't find much online. This same horse choked pretty bad last year on alfalfa pellets, but i've read that rachellyn80 has no problem on her seniors who don't have any teeth, so might be ok. I'd probably still soak to be on the safe side.
You'll just have to see these cubes to understand why you don't need to soak them. They're so soft it would just turn into a big mess. It's hard to describe, but they're like tiny compressed hay bales and you rarely see more than two or three "flakes" stuck together. They are nothing like traditional alfalfa cubes in any way. Very little binder is used so there's not even that weird baked shiny look to them.
I have a very choke prone horse and he hasn't had a single issue on the omnis. I was scared to try him on it and I probably watched him eat his meals for 3 days and realized there wasn't going to be a problem for him. Love these cubes! Haven't had to feed a single flake of hay since I've started them. |
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Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | rachellyn80 - 2015-07-09 11:53 AM Herbie - 2015-07-09 10:30 AM Maybe! I don't have facebook and can't find much online. This same horse choked pretty bad last year on alfalfa pellets, but i've read that rachellyn80 has no problem on her seniors who don't have any teeth, so might be ok. I'd probably still soak to be on the safe side. You'll just have to see these cubes to understand why you don't need to soak them. They're so soft it would just turn into a big mess. It's hard to describe, but they're like tiny compressed hay bales and you rarely see more than two or three "flakes" stuck together. They are nothing like traditional alfalfa cubes in any way. Very little binder is used so there's not even that weird baked shiny look to them.
True, they aren't hard at all. My babies ate up the samples I had. My old man with EPM ate them up.
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 Peat and Repeat
Posts: 2773
Location: IN MY OWN LITTLE WORLD AT LEAST THEY KNOW ME HERE | It is said
Look at the poop to see if they are digesting the oats. See a lot of oats in poop?
Check the teeth or address the gut issues. |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | Do the Danco people have a way for us non-facebookers to find out where the dealers are? |
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Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | Yakima - 2015-07-09 12:25 PM It is said Look at the poop to see if they are digesting the oats. See a lot of oats in poop? Check the teeth or address the gut issues.
I think one thing that throws people off is the empty hulls in the poop. It did me at first. So, I have put on gloves and picked up the hulls and examined them. This usually happens and shows up though if the horse needs dental work though. :) |
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Expert
Posts: 5293
| 3canstorun - 2015-07-09 9:44 AM
Yakima - 2015-07-09 12:25 PM It is said Look at the poop to see if they are digesting the oats. See a lot of oats in poop? Check the teeth or address the gut issues.
I think one thing that throws people off is the empty hulls in the poop. It did me at first. So, I have put on gloves and picked up the hulls and examined them. This usually happens and shows up though if the horse needs dental work though. :)
Gloves? What do you need those for.. lol 
Can Omnis cubes be purchased in CA? And for those of you who say you havent had to feed ANY HAY since starting them, how do you keep hay in front of your horse 24/7? THat is my concern. I want my horses to have forage 24/7. Thanks! |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | Herbie - 2015-07-09 11:40 AM Do the Danco people have a way for us non-facebookers to find out where the dealers are?
This is the only way I could figure out how to get the Texas dealers from my phone on FB to BHW, lol.
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | FLITASTIC - 2015-07-09 11:59 AM 3canstorun - 2015-07-09 9:44 AM Yakima - 2015-07-09 12:25 PM It is said Look at the poop to see if they are digesting the oats. See a lot of oats in poop? Check the teeth or address the gut issues. I think one thing that throws people off is the empty hulls in the poop. It did me at first. So, I have put on gloves and picked up the hulls and examined them. This usually happens and shows up though if the horse needs dental work though. :) Gloves? What do you need those for.. lol Can Omnis cubes be purchased in CA? And for those of you who say you havent had to feed ANY HAY since starting them, how do you keep hay in front of your horse 24/7? THat is my concern. I want my horses to have forage 24/7. Thanks!
We keep grass hay in the stalls with the horses that are up during the day, but since they've been on Omnis Cubes they don't eat much of it if any at all. They mostly make messes with it.
Ours don't sit and eat all of their cubes at one time though...they graze on them for a few hours and sometimes don't clean all of them up even by the next feeding. They are definitely staying full and satisfied. |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | We need a dealer in the Greenville/Sulphur Springs area. Lots of horses and horse people around here, lots of feed stores, but unfortunately not alot of variety. |
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Expert
Posts: 5293
| Same here, we need these in SOuthern Calif!!! |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | AND BISMARCK, ND! |
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