quickdraw - 2015-07-12 7:34 PM I am seeing so much information and misinformation about bleeders, I thought I would share. I recently had a nice long discussion with a very knowledgeable vet that scopes 1000's of race horses on a frequent basis to look for mucous, inflammation, or bleeding. They are scoping some of the most expensive race horses in a country where you can NOT run on Lasix or ventipulmin so lung health is imperative. He said horses tend to bleed from the back of their lungs and only about 2% of the bleeders actually will bleed outwards (out the nostril). If you are seeing a horse bleed outward, they have some pretty severe lung damage going on. He told me if you DO see a horse bleed out, that horse needs at least 60-90 days of NO EXERCISE for their lungs to truly heal. Where blood capillaries rupture in the lungs, they will scab over and you may think they are healed sooner but the lung tissue will not be truly healed for 60-90 days. Most need to be treated with antibiotics after a bleed and you can give ventipulmin to help open up their breathing and help the process. NOTHING but time off is going to heal them. Hope this helps some of you.

quickdraw - 2015-07-12 11:55 PM

I will explain why I had this talk with the vet so it makes more sense. I sold 2 really nice rodeo horses a few years ago that never bled, never coughed after a run, zero symptoms of a bleeder. One horse went to south Louisiana, the other went to Alabama coast, both are HOT and HUMID. Both horses started being bleeders after living down in the hot, humid south for several months. Both horses returned to my barn at random times to get them better conditioned and tune on them. Both were treated with antibiotics and had time off. Both horses ran without Lasix and did not bleed while here. One horse sold again and went to another hot, humid area and is having bleeding problems big time. I have the opportunity to buy this horse back and agreed to buy him back so I did talk to the vet to see what I need to do to truly get him healthy. That is the reason for the discussion. The girl that owns the horse has now decided to turn him out for 90 days and probably keep him. (sad face). Let me add, keeping them very fit is also a key ingredient in avoiding bleeding.

hammer_time - 2015-07-12 11:19 PM

  Very interesting, thanks for sharing! Would it go to say that if you allow the horse to rest and then you bring it back theoretically it shouldn't bleed anymore?  As long as  The horse is scoped and cleared with healthy lungs and he is brought back into shape methodically?

miss_n_cinch13 - 2015-07-13 11:43 AM Methodically yes, in actuality not always. I gave a bleeder off from the end of August until the beginning of Spetember. Had him scoped as i condidtioned him back and the vet said his lungs were healthy but he still bled when i ran him. it didnt matter if it was hot and humid or cold outside. Each horse is different.

streakysox - 2015-07-13 2:04 AM Yes, keeping them fit is essential. They have to have exercise that builds lung capacity. Things like an aquatread really do not help to keep the horse in shape cardio-vascular wise.

Herbie - 2015-07-13 12:53 PM Nor will long trotting and loping circles.  It's important to condition a horse for what we're going to ask it to do, both internally and externally.  If we long trot and lope circles all week, then go make a run on the weekends, we haven't conditioned the lungs to perform the task we are asking it to do, nor the muscles, nor the skeletal system.  Gotta remember that sprinters condition themselves by running sprints, beginning with short bursts and working up to intervals.  Yes, they may warm up with long, slow distance, but eventually they prepare their body to win a sprint by sprinting....first short bursts and eventually they work up to intervals.  IMO this is a BIG missing ingredient to the conditioning of both barrel horses and race horses. 



And yes, if a horse is sold to a different climate, they will have to be conditioned to work in that climate through this same process, slowing building up their body to handle the thicker air and more humid conditions. Otherwise we're asking for a problem in our horse's breathing and overall health, as their body isn't conditioned to compete in the new environment, humidity, heat, etc.   

GLP - 2015-07-14 11:06 AM Thanks, Herbie. I appreciate you sharing. I laughed at the horse that runs a couple times a day. My gelding does that at feeding time, running and whinnying like I never feed him. I love it though. He brings a smile to my face everyday.

MS2011 - 2015-07-13 12:03 PM


Do you mean you gave him over a year off?  Otherwise, it's a pretty short time period.

Herbie - 2015-07-14 9:28 AM I just try to think about conditioning a horse the same way we would condition a human athlete.  Another thing to consider is if a horse is kept in a stall or if they are turned out.  If they are turned out, do they amble around or are they active?  My horses stay turned out all of the time unless the weather is bad.  I have one horse who at least twice a day will break and run as hard as he can go in the pasture for at least 100 hards....usually more like for 5 minutes.  HAHA  I don't have to do nearly as much sprint work on him because he does it himself.   Other horses who aren't as active I try to build them up gradually to a 4 mile warm up.....beginning with jogging a half mile, long trotting a half mile, loping a half mile, gallop a half mile, change directions, gallop a half mile, lope a half mile, long trot a half mile, jog a half mile.  Of course this distance for me is the end goal, not where I begin....I work up to that and have a heart rate monitor that I sometimes use when first starting to try to get a horse fit so I know when they have exhausted themself.  Once I have them up to the 4 miles, I then start introducing short sprints, as short as possible, a couple times a week.  Like down one side of the arena, just one time to start with, then jog them and let them come back down.  Eventually I will sprint them down the long sides of the arena, slow them up on the short sides, then sprint down the long side....so that it equals about 4 sprints total.  Through this process, I will do some tight turns around a barrel or pole, and even have cavalettis set up to work over just to keep my horse's mind at work as well. 

Once a horse is hauling and making runs, I don't do anymore sprinting at home, becuase they are getting that through making runs at a barrel race or rodeo.  At that point, lots of long trotting. 
 

quickdraw - 2015-07-12 11:43 PM Wyoming, the vet I talked to is scoping and treating horses in Dubai and Lasix is not allowed over there during races. They test for it and are stringent about it. They can't run on ventipulmin either and it is very sensitive when testing and will show up for up to 6 wks so they use no Lasix racing and no ventipulmin for at least 6 wks prior to a race. During training, they do use vent quite often and Lasix if needed. HammerTime, he said once the lungs are healed and healthy again, they use Ventipulmin while conditioning and wean them off of it and a lot of them do not bleed again. They scope those horses very frequently, even after a normal workout, not necessarily after a race. One of the richest people in the world owns these horses and money is not an issue.