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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 499
 
Location: ARKANSAS | Why is it so hard for people to be honest when selling a horse??? I just had a friend went to try out a barrel horse and the first question she asked was did he buck and they replied NO!!! Welll YEP,she got bucked off, shattered her knee and broke her hand. They did surgery on her knee and she is fine...but this is not the point...the point is if the folks had of been honest, she would have avoided getting hurt.Come to find out later the horse was a known bucker and had been passed around for that. REALLY? does money mean more than somebodys life or thier childs life??? I have NEVER sold a horse nor will i ever sell a horse that you wont know EVERY DETAIL about him...which i have not sold that many but the ones i have sold the new owners said they were just like i said they would be. The reason i have sold a few in the past is i have bought them and they have not matched my riding style or my personality, and i to bought a bucker once and i was told he was a kids horse...and i SOLD HIM AS A BUCKER!! Ok my rant is over!! |
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| That's why you can't always trust a sellers word. You have to dig deeper and do your homework. Find out previous registered owners, ask people who go to jackpots locally to the horse etc. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 499
Location: ARKANSAS | I fully agree except for checking with registered owners...again that's a joke...people INSIST they be registered but they NEVER bother to transfer them into their own name..i sold a horse once, and he was gone 3 yrs,,I had the chance to buy him back and I did..while he was gone he had changed hands SEVEN times...and whose name was he in when I got him back..yep MINE!!! |
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 A Barrel Of Monkeys
Posts: 12972
 
Location: Texas | Always, always ask the seller to ride the horse first. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1482
Location: on my horse | ahh your poor friend! Prayers for quick healing for her |
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Boot Detective
Posts: 1900
| My thoughts exactly. The truth will always come out so why be so dishonest. It's not just horses, its everything that is for sale. I messaged about a piece of real estate that is advertised to be exactly where I want to live. The more I badgered the seller about specifically where is this place, it is 2 towns and 30 miles away. Grrrh. Waste of my time and hers. |
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 To the Left
Posts: 1865
Location: Florida | Honesty is easy and habit forming. I would think lying would be extremely hard. How do liars keep their story straight? Call me naive but even as I near retirement age I can't understand dishonest people, how do they sleep at night? Of course that may be why my horse dealing motto is "Buy high, sell low" LOL
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 BHW's Lance Armstrong 
Posts: 11134
Location: Somewhere between S@%&# stirrer and Saint | Pure and simple. Greed! |
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12708
| Crazy thing - I had a kinda cold backed young gelding to sell. He was fine after a bit of exercise. Family came down from NJ to look at him. I was up front about the humpi-ness (even on the phone before they headed down to VA). We lunged the gelding and he did hump up a little. Husband just chuckled and hopped on. Spidey and him went for a wild ride! The dude forced Spidey to move forward and he (Spidey) decided it was easier to move flat than get whooped on. Wife rode next, then daughter. Even after his humpy start they loved him.
If you're up front you might scare off those who are not capable of dealing with an issue. But there are plenty of people looking for 'issue' horses. Either young and frisky like my Spidey, or those who need to be rehabbed out of a behavioral issue and put back to good use.
It is not worth a bad reputation to sell a bad horse to good people.
Many prayers for your friend for fast and complete healing  |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 669
Location: Central Texas | Fun2Run - 2015-07-16 8:36 PM
Always, always ask the seller to ride the horse first.
Absolutely this! I ask them to saddle/ride and do all transitions.....walk, trot, lope and full out breeze before I ever swing a leg over. Any horse I am interested in purchasing will be ridden like a full work out when I go to look at them. So very sorry your friend was injured and glad it wasn't worse. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1182
Location: Do I hear Banjos? | My horse trying rules are:
-I do NOT want the horse saddled when I get there. Preferably not even caught. I want to see what I might be getting there.
-I always ask the owner or their representative to ride first. Both because I want to see how it moves, AND because if they don't want to ride it...I don't either.
Sucks that folks like that can be willing to take a chance on someone getting seriously hurt for the sake of a sale. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 477
Location: Lost in the swamps | Exact thing happened to me about 3 years ago with a kids horse, he was a crow hopper. The little girl was a sure good hand and really tried hard to discourage him, but once he realized she wasn't strong enough.... He became too dangerious. He had tried a time or two with me and I creamed his a$$ for it and never tried it again. But with her, he figured out he could get away with it. Come to find out he was sold for this reason. So We sold him with full disclosure to experienced people. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 490
| SO TRUE! I met a friend that came down to try a horse. I hadnt seen her in a few years. She rode the horse and he did good. Owner didnt want to be the first one on him (Should have been a clue). She asks me to take the horse through the pattern so she can watch him. I climb on, trot a few circles to get a feel for the horse and start to trot the pattern. 1 and 2 are good. We get to 3, I drop my hand and we turn. As we finish the turn this suckers busts in half. As soon as his head ducks, Im still one handed, I am trying to get his head. He goes straight up, comes down and bucks 3 or 4 more times before Im able to get control. The owners never said sorry. I think they knew he was going to do it. It shook me up. I will not get on other peoples horses anymore. I stayed on but its not fun anymore. I cannot stand a rearer! Just be honest! |
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 Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
Location: Texas | Fun2Run - 2015-07-16 8:36 PM Always, always ask the seller to ride the horse first.
THIS^^^
I went to go look at a horse for my non horsey husband and my son who was about 6? at the time. The first day I went to look at him there was some reason why I couldn't try him out in the arena. Ok whatever, I liked him so far so I came back another day. The man assured me this horse would be a great horse for beginner riders and kids. I asked him to ride the horse first and he did. He had him walk and trot a little bit. When he came back to where I was standing I asked him if he could get him up into a lope. He was reluctant, went on to tell me about how gentle this horse is yada yada. I told him I wasn't interested then, and as I started to walk away he finally said he would. As soon as he got this horse into a lope he broke in two. I'm glad it wasn't my butt hitting the ground. He came back and said "So I guess you aren't interested in him?" No, not at all. Thanks for trying to kill my kid and husband. I didn't tell him that but I wanted to. lol
Honestly though. If I am selling a horse and there isn't anything wrong with it. There is nothing stopping me from riding the horse before the buyer. If I am selling a bucker, you are going to know that it is a bucker, and you are also going to know that I'm not interested in getting bucked off to prove it... you will just have to take my word for it lol. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 929
| TrailGirl - 2015-07-17 5:49 AM
My horse trying rules are:
-I do NOT want the horse saddled when I get there. Preferably not even caught. I want to see what I might be getting there.
-I always ask the owner or their representative to ride first. Both because I want to see how it moves, AND because if they don't want to ride it...I don't either.
Sucks that folks like that can be willing to take a chance on someone getting seriously hurt for the sake of a sale.
This!!! And I also want to tie and groom the horse for myself and then have the owner get on. Not just because I want to make sure if it's going to do something that I can see it, but what if the owner cues it different, has a completely different riding style, etc. Maybe it's something I can deal with, maybe it will be too time consuming.
There is a girl in our area who has a lot of horses for sale but has a mixed reputation on what you are getting. Personally I will straight up tell you that this is not the horse for you after speaking to you on the phone or if you come out and I show you the horse and see either: A) you are not as experienced as you said you are, or B.) you said the horse was for you but you come to try a barely broke 3 year old and then tell me it's for your 10 year old daughter who can barely saddle an old pony. I want people to be happy with their horse, and because I don't generally sell my horses, if I do have to sell, I really want the horse to be happy and stay with the new owner instead of being swapped around.
Maybe this is why I don't sell horses?! |
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 Underestimated Underdog
Posts: 3971
Location: Minnesota | I agree with the others above. I want to see the seller do everything I will be doing. Everything from grooming to cleaning hooves to saddling and riding. When I bought my gelding I asked the seller to do all these things and he did have some problems but at least I knew going into it. I still bought him and we worked through the issues but at least I knew about them coming into it. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| Fun2Run - 2015-07-16 8:36 PM
Always, always ask the seller to ride the horse first.
I never get on one with out the seller riding first... If they won't get on, I'm darn sure not getting on!! |
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Boot Detective
Posts: 1900
| Trail Girl has some great points. I like to show up early to try a horse too. I learned this by accident. Me and a friend flew to another state to try a couple horses for sale. Both horses were at the same barn. One had a respectable win record but had fallen off the radar for several months (another red flag). We were so busy talking we honestly forgot to call and let them know we were about an hour away. We arrived about 45 min before they thought we possibly could and they were obviously surprised to see us and not so happy about it. They didn't want either of us to ride these horses from the barn to the arena (maybe 150 yds across their pasture) and both horses rode like complete idiots in their own home place. The proven horse was scared of the parked tractor, birds, everything. he was also not sound. The longer I rode him, the more it became obvious. The other horse would try to run sideways when you started to step in the stirrup and was a hand full to say the least. He wanted to buck and my friend (great horseman) used a lot of skill to prevent a disaster on that colt. Both horses were priced above $20,000. When we took horses back into the barn to unsaddle, my friend noticed the large bottle of drugs sitting out. We were both totally convinced if they had of known we were close, those horses would have been drugged/sedated and the unsound one would have rode sound with the right pain meds. We lost a lot of $ on plane tickets, hotel, and rental car but we saved a fortune and saw some pretty country. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1440
Location: Texas | I am so thankful that the girl I bought Lips from was completely truthful about his bucking. He can be somewhat cold backed and she told me that. If he is off for a few weeks he WILL buck. She told me all I had to do is longe him for a bit and let him get it out and then he will be fine. He was just recently off for a month and when I got him back up he went to town!! Was never so glad she had been honest! |
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 Sorry I don't have any advice
Posts: 1975
Location: Sunnyland Florida |
Some real good advice in posts on this thread so far. Here's one more. When you're PONY shopping for your kid, ask the seller to put THEIR kid on first. When their kid starts bawling and won't get on it - you can get in the truck and go home. True story, this happened two times!
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | Runaway - 2015-07-17 11:27 AM
Some real good advice in posts on this thread so far. Here's one more. When you're PONY shopping for your kid, ask the seller to put THEIR kid on first. When their kid starts bawling and won't get on it - you can get in the truck and go home. True story, this happened two times!
I won't even look at a pony from someone that doesn't have kids...and at least some videos and photos of their kids riding it.
Also, I'd like to add that I have unfortunately had people show up to ride our horses and were able to make even our brokest horses buck or kick out. Some people have no feel, seat, or sense even though they may have been riding their whole lives. Our horses are broke enough that if you hang on their faces and lock your legs down that they're eventually going to get frustrated. It's usually not hard to tell who is not going to be a good fit. I just politely tell them that the horse probably won't work for them and they would just be wasting their time. |
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Expert
Posts: 1482
Location: on my horse | Another thing is, after I see the seller ride the horse, if I'm in any way uncomfortable I absolutely will not ride. I used to feel guilty about wasting a seller's time but not anymore if I don't feel safe I'm not getting on  |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 822
Location: Southwest New Mexico | Runaway - 2015-07-17 10:27 AM
Some real good advice in posts on this thread so far. Here's one more. When you're PONY shopping for your kid, ask the seller to put THEIR kid on first. When their kid starts bawling and won't get on it - you can get in the truck and go home. True story, this happened two times!
Learned this the hard way lol |
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 Strong Willed Woman
Posts: 6577
Location: Prosser, WA | One of my friends thought I was crazy when I told her that I have the owner ride the horse first. Then I can watch the riders cues and see how the horse reacts. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| So sorry for your friend. I drove quite a few hours for one of my daughters to try a horse. My daughter has been riding the mare for about 15 minutes, broker is telling me what an honest been there, done that horse she is, safe, etc. As those words are coming out of her mouth the horse breaks in 2 with my daughter, she stayed on and did not get hurt. We got in the truck and went home. I did not know the horse's history so have no idea if this was a first, regardless, it was not the horse for us. |
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 Loves to compete
Posts: 5760
Location: Oakdale, CA | I think I would sue them for medical
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| got boost? - 2015-07-17 7:08 PM
I think I would sue them for medical
This attitude worries me about selling horses.
We don't know the story, and it is possible that the horse bucked prior to these people gettingff the horse. It may have never bucked with the people who are selling the horse.
It is horrible that she got injured and prayer to her healing, but she got on the horse, isn't this informed consent? Horses are animals, and are unpredictable.
Not sure sueing is appropriate, as it will also black ball her from buying another horse as word in the horse world traces quickly and gets distorted |
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 I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
Location: Pacific Northwest | I know it wasn't the case with the OPs story, but its actually not that far-fetched for an owner to say a horse has never bucked, and then have the horse buck. When I sold the pony I'd had for 5 years, he had honestly NEVER bucked, never even so much as pinned an ear. But the day someone came to look at him he bucked when I first asked him to canter. I have absolutely no idea why. The lady still bought him and they loved him though.
Another situation, my friend was selling a very well-broke, level-headed gelding. She saw no reason why he couldn't be a kids horse so she advertised him as a potential youth horse. Younger people had rode him, but probably all at least 14. Well a family came and tried him out and he kept wanting to crow hop with the younger kids (8 and under). After this happened with a few different people we finally figured out he wasn't used to where the kids' legs were cueing him in the side. He'd only ever been ridden by people with longer legs.
And while this horse wasn't for sale, my dad bought a rope horse. Super nice gelding, we'd had him for a few months and I had taken him to playdays and my dad had roped off him a lot, so we felt like we knew him pretty well. We let my mom ride him at home one day and i don't know what vibes my mom was giving off, but that horse was ready to BLOW the moment she stepped on. I've still to this day never seen him act like that, I don't know if she was really really nervous and he fed off it or what.
So I guess what I'm saying is, you can't ALWAYS assume that just because a horse does something that the seller says is out of character that the seller was lying. Horses are weird, none of us can read their minds. |
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Expert
Posts: 5293
| That reminds me of a girl I went to high school rodeo with. Her parents bought her nice horse after nice horse and for some reason they always blew up! She was a sweet girl and didn't do anything wrong. She just had an electric shocking butt I guess. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 520
| Very hard to find an honest seller. I have a "kid safe" quarter pony I bought a year ago. He rode great when I tried him out, tried bucking me off the first ride a had him at home and has tried bucking me off several times since. People like the "trainers" I got him from are going to get someone's child really hurt.
My parents actually did get sewed buy a guy that fell off my horse I had as a teen and broke his wrist. I had the horse 4 years and she never once tried to buck. He was on her less than 2 minutes, dug the heel of his boot into her ribs hard, she took off bucking. It was his own fault for mishandling to the horse, but how can you prove that.
Edited by Buckles 2015-07-18 9:49 AM
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 Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | I know a man who would buy small 2 year olds. Get on away from the barn and run them back as fast as he could and within 30 days or less sell them as kid broke horses. He would set his kids on them lead them around for 5 minutes and make a sale. Buyer beware. |
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Loves to compete
Posts: 5760
Location: Oakdale, CA | cheryl makofka - 2015-07-17 7:48 PM got boost? - 2015-07-17 7:08 PM I think I would sue them for medical
This attitude worries me about selling horses. We don't know the story, and it is possible that the horse bucked prior to these people gettingff the horse. It may have never bucked with the people who are selling the horse. It is horrible that she got injured and prayer to her healing, but she got on the horse, isn't this informed consent? Horses are animals, and are unpredictable. Not sure sueing is appropriate, as it will also black ball her from buying another horse as word in the horse world traces quickly and gets distorted
I don't belive in sueing at all but this might stop the fibbers. Also I always have my buyers ride the horse in a round pen to eyeball their riding abilities too. See if they know how brakes work on the horse and can see pretty fast what kind of rider they are.......
PS I never sell buckers I don't sell that many horses and if I had a bucker I would send them to be recycled.........yes slaughtered.............. |
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 Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | Good points Cheryl & Livex.
I've also seen horses that people said bucked not do anything. Sometimes it's not the horse, sometimes it's the rider. I've seen horses that did fine with someone who could ride have a complete meltdown with someone that didn't know where their feet & legs were. I've also seen good lesson horses that didn't have a buck in them at all go sour and start bucking because they didn't get ridden enough and got spoiled on top of that.
Even with your own horses, every time you put a foot in the stirrup there's no guarantees. They're animals and we're supposed to be the smarter species and remember that but somehow we forget it pretty easily.
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| got boost? - 2015-07-18 7:27 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-07-17 7:48 PM got boost? - 2015-07-17 7:08 PM I think I would sue them for medical
This attitude worries me about selling horses. We don't know the story, and it is possible that the horse bucked prior to these people gettingff the horse. It may have never bucked with the people who are selling the horse. It is horrible that she got injured and prayer to her healing, but she got on the horse, isn't this informed consent? Horses are animals, and are unpredictable. Not sure sueing is appropriate, as it will also black ball her from buying another horse as word in the horse world traces quickly and gets distorted
PS I never sell buckers I don't sell that many horses and if I had a bucker I would send them to be recycled.........yes slaughtered..............
Your comment really worries me.
Sue the fibbers
So you are willing to sue or think any potential buyer should sue any seller who fibs.
Then the potential seller has to spend their hard earned money to defend their name in court.
Sounds like you are sue happy.
Horses have taught me even the best broke horse can make a liar out of me even once. Horses are not robots and no one can predict what a horse will or won't do in a certain situation, we can make a educated guess, but can still be humbled.
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | cheryl makofka - 2015-07-18 11:06 PM
got boost? - 2015-07-18 7:27 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-07-17 7:48 PM got boost? - 2015-07-17 7:08 PM I think I would sue them for medical
This attitude worries me about selling horses. We don't know the story, and it is possible that the horse bucked prior to these people gettingff the horse. It may have never bucked with the people who are selling the horse. It is horrible that she got injured and prayer to her healing, but she got on the horse, isn't this informed consent? Horses are animals, and are unpredictable. Not sure sueing is appropriate, as it will also black ball her from buying another horse as word in the horse world traces quickly and gets distorted
PS I never sell buckers I don't sell that many horses and if I had a bucker I would send them to be recycled.........yes slaughtered..............
Your comment really worries me.
Sue the fibbers
So you are willing to sue or think any potential buyer should sue any seller who fibs.
Then the potential seller has to spend their hard earned money to defend their name in court.
Sounds like you are sue happy.
Horses have taught me even the best broke horse can make a liar out of me even once. Horses are not robots and no one can predict what a horse will or won't do in a certain situation, we can make a educated guess, but can still be humbled.
I agree with Cheryl----horses have the ability to humble you everyday. My bf rode his 8 year old gelding yesterday----we've had him 2 years and he's never offered to buck. . . . In the round pen he started a slow lope after walking and trotting for about 20 min and Lynn started picking that butt up!! Did it twice, but his rear end is getting some wet blankets starting tomorrow. It wasn't a "break in two" buck, but shocked the poo out of both of us! |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| I learned recently that I think some horses are never exposed to a variety of people and act up.
I recently bought a 4 year old that had supposedly had all the basics done. Was ready to start under saddle. I drove from MN to OK to get him. He was a nightmare the first week. The owner I do think exaggerated his level but I also don't think he acted this way with her. I think hes never had to work or listen to anyone else (bred and raised at her farm.)
As he warms up to me, hes made huge changes in his behavior. But had he been broke, it wouldn't not have shocked me to see him do something out of character for him. He was kinda a 1 person horse...
With that said, riders can also cause bad behavior and sellers can also be dishonest but I think this is also a variable. I know quite a few horses who are puppy dogs for their owners but naughty with others because they've just not been exposed much to others. |
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Member
Posts: 16
| This is why after years of being in the horse world I find it so hard to buy a horse from someone I don't know. I've even gone as far as to buy weanlings because at least I know how they are being trained.
Many of my friends have gone through the same thing, one girl even shattered her pelvis because of being dishonest. I would rather someone know everything and anything about the horse when they buy it so that I am not thought of as dishonest.
Drove 4 hours to see one and the girl said she had been saddled and ridden. Get up there and the horse looks nothing like in the pictures and she puts the saddle on and no more sat in the saddle and she went straight up in the air... glad I asked her to ride the horse first.
When you find the honest sellers its almost like you feel something is wrong lol!! I bought a horse from someone who told me all the bad about the horse going to the extreme... When I got there I was prepared for a disaster, well lets just say he was way better than what was described I bought him on the spot. Maybe it's because his behavior was described so badly that I thought his quirks werent bad at all.
Edited by bellablue 2015-07-19 11:41 AM
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 Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country | Had a friend die trying a horse for her kids. While she was at their place looking at it, she got on before she let her daughters on it. It bucked and threw her into a fence. She never went home from the hospital.
We had become friends when she bought a horse from me. She and her kids won a lot of money on him. They were looking for another one like him.
Edited by ozcancrasher13 2015-07-19 11:36 AM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | I have one here for training and resale. I know the previous owner casually and she had the horse for 8 years and she said he never bucked. Sold them to a family who bought him on Monday and took him to a jackpot on Tuesday. Horse put it's head between it's knees and bucked the kid off between the barrels. I have no clue why it happened but it did. The horse also refused at the gate and had to be led in.
I've had this horse for two weeks and not once has it offered to buck. I've hauled him and he walks into the arena calm and quietly and ready to listen. When I finally get him ready to sell for them I'll be honest in why he's for sale but I think it was just the combination was a bad fit.
I feel bad for your friend because that was flat out deceit and karma will come around for those people but sometimes it's just the combination that doesn't work.
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Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
Location: Texas | Another reason to have the seller ride first is to see how the horse acts with someone that knows them. If I see a horse ride perfectly for their owner then I get on and he just isn't the same I know it is something I am doing and not the horses fault usually. Im not talking about bucking. Maybe I can figure it out and we still might click. If that makes sense. I had an older horse, had him for 15 years. When I rode him he did great, if someone else got on him you never knew which horse you would get. Some people would "cue" him without even knowing it, then they are holding him back and he would be wide eyed head in the air prancing around. Granted he never bucked or offered to he just didn't know what they wanted so he looked like a wreck waiting to happen. I could help them stop giving him mixed signals and he would calm right down. |
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I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
Location: Pacific Northwest | Fairweather - 2015-07-18 8:27 PM
Good points Cheryl & Livex.
I've also seen horses that people said bucked not do anything. Sometimes it's not the horse, sometimes it's the rider. I've seen horses that did fine with someone who could ride have a complete meltdown with someone that didn't know where their feet & legs were. I've also seen good lesson horses that didn't have a buck in them at all go sour and start bucking because they didn't get ridden enough and got spoiled on top of that.
Even with your own horses, every time you put a foot in the stirrup there's no guarantees. They're animals and we're supposed to be the smarter species and remember that but somehow we forget it pretty easily.
Oh yeah I forgot that as another story! My mare that I bought recently supposedly bucked, I've had her for 3 years now and she's never tried. I started out leasing her from a friend and the mare hadn't been ridden in awhile when I got her and she told me I "better wear a seatbelt" the first time I rode her, and she told me that typically she always had a little hump in her back when you first walked off. I've still never had her buck. She's no saint and she acts up/spooks, but she's never put her head down and tried to buck or even kicked out. |
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Why is it so HARD for people to be honest????